"You can eat whaver you want, as long as you eat at a deficit" is true, but it's garbage advice.
Replies
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Thank you. I did look at those when I joined, but I didn't see any that addressed the "eat whatever you want..." idea. Are there any that you know of? (Serious question.)
How about this one!
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10183824/things-i-had-to-unlearn-about-losing-weight/p14 -
diannethegeek wrote: »
Okay, breaking a month of lurking to say this. After years of posting on these boards, including two stickied posts that answer newbie questions that no one reads, I've been told repeatedly that posting links to old threads is rude, mean, insults the intelligence of newbies. I've had bumps to stickied threads so that more people see them marked as spam. I've been called a spammer for posting said links to the intro threads asking for tips. I've been called a troll for using standard copy/paste advice. I've been told that it's mean, rude, nasty, etc to use standard copy/paste advice that tries to cover all the angles. I even have a copy/paste for threads where people post to tell us all that we're rude/mean/terrible for not giving advice the OP wanted to hear because it's so frequent.
What I'm saying @dfwesq is that, no, we cannot win. If we try to answer threads with personalized advice we're either too hasty, too blunt, not enough disclaimers, etc. Try to link newbies to old threads and you're wrong too.
No one can win on these boards. Fortunately a number of people keep trying from different angles. Personally, I like that these boards end up with advice from a variety of viewpoints. People build off of each others' posts and chime in if they feel something has been missed or glossed over. I just can't be *****'ed to do it anymore after being beaten down by threads like this one over the years.
I hope you stick around to point newbies to the stickies, copy/paste links, bump useful threads, etc. instead of just complaining that not enough of us do it. The boards need more people who can.
Nice to see you posting! I am, however, surprised (and probably shouldn't be) that anyone would object to the standard answers you have posted in the past. Your standard tips for hunger, etc. were well thought out responses that covered all the basics and advice in an easy to read way. You obviously put some time and thought into them and I've always thought they were great.
I'm sorry you have caught flak for your great, informative responses. But I a suspect that you helped a lot more people and pointed them in the right direction than you know. So good job to you! (and if I knew how to post the little cheers smiley I would)7 -
WinoGelato wrote: »
And still, no comment from you about the OP's choice of words "garbage advice", supported by sweeping generalizations and misunderstanding of what people actually mean when they offer advice of "you can lose weight and still eat the foods you want in a calorie deficit". The rest of us are the bossy bullies?
That wasn't aimed at you. Sorry if you read it that way.0 -
How about this one!Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10183824/things-i-had-to-unlearn-about-losing-weight/p1[/quote]
Thanks, that's all good advice. I didn't notice anything that directly answers the question a newbie might have, but it is still very good advice.0 -
Thank you. I did look at those when I joined, but I didn't see any that addressed the "eat whatever you want..." idea. Are there any that you know of? (Serious question.)
The Sexypants and So You're New Here threads in the Getting Started section probably address many of these points but I don't know of a particular thread that is focused on moderation. Again, these threads are written by community members, get widespread favorable reactions, and eventually get nominated and voted for stickied status. They aren't official FAQs or written by mods (some may be) or anything like that.
I feel like you are looking for a repository with all the answers to every question that is or could be asked. That doesn't exist in a neat little primer. The stickies and the community responses are the best source of good information but ultimately weight loss is a personal journey. Everyone has to figure out their own way, and everyone has to do the work themselves.9 -
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10300331/most-helpful-posts-getting-started-must-reads#latest
Sexypants addresses moderation as well as the other threads linked. You just have to read them.5 -
Thanks, that's all good advice. I didn't notice anything that directly answers the question a newbie might have, but it is still very good advice. [/quote]
Since you seem to be keen to be the voice of all newbies and know all the questions they might have... maybe you should start a thread to try to get those questions answered succinctly and with consensus from the community at large.13 -
I'm very sorry that people mistreated and were ungrateful to you - I genuinely am. I hope it can all be OK.diannethegeek wrote: »What I'm saying @dfwesq is that, no, we cannot win. If we try to answer threads with personalized advice we're either too hasty, too blunt, not enough disclaimers, etc. Try to link newbies to old threads and you're wrong too.
I think my posts were understood to mean "Hey all you veterans, give better advice and do a better job" and I'm sorry if I conveyed that idea. I read the OP, which seemed to be aimed at general advice-givers, and that's what I had in mind. (I had seen a few threads where people - no one here - were giving advice to new members that seemed pretty extreme.)
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WinoGelato wrote: »
I was thinking of you, and your copy/paste "at some point in time, every helpful member of these boards will be called mean... " when I was responding to many of these posts in this thread. I thought about beetlejuicing you in but I'm glad to hear you found it all on your own. You heading back to lurker land?
I'll be in lurker land for a while. Mostly, I'm just busy with other things. But I also recognize that I need a break from these boards every now and again. There's just too much fun here for a person to handle :drinker:14 -
diannethegeek wrote: »
I'll be in lurker land for a while. Mostly, I'm just busy with other things. But I also recognize that I need a break from these boards every now and again. There's just too much fun here for a person to handle :drinker:
It's a good time for a break. Rock Chalk!
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Nice to see you posting! I am, however, surprised (and probably shouldn't be) that anyone would object to the standard answers you have posted in the past. Your standard tips for hunger, etc. were well thought out responses that covered all the basics and advice in an easy to read way. You obviously put some time and thought into them and I've always thought they were great.
I'm sorry you have caught flak for your great, informative responses. But I a suspect that you helped a lot more people and pointed them in the right direction than you know. So good job to you! (and if I knew how to post the little cheers smiley I would)
The cheers smiley is easy. Just surround drinker with colons :drinker:
There's a list around somewhere with all of the "secret" ones. I only remember drinker and flowerforyou though
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I came to MFP just shy of two years ago, and had no knowledge of nutrition or how to lose weight. I had been trying on my own, and had lost 21 pounds in the previous six or seven months, and although I was eating less, I was not, in retrospect, getting nearly enough protein or other essentials into my diet, and I was starving all the time. I was close to throwing in the towel and was online looking for a sustainable way to lose weight when I found MFP. I started immediately logging, and then began lurking and reading the forums.
I disagree with some of the statements in this thread, especially about the contention that most of the advice is snarky and superior. There have been a million zillion threads about this same subject, and the same posters, day after day, try to refute that they are saying to eat nothing but junk food as long as it's within your calorie deficit. If not for these people, some of whom are sadly gone now, I would not have learned that I could actually eat something other than grass and lose weight. It didn't take me long to learn this, and it is because of the posters that you see in this thread and alumni that I did. I am no different than any other newbie - I started out with no knowledge and now have a lot because of these threads and these people.
Because of their great "garbage" advice, I didn't deprive myself of foods I liked, I learned to chart my macros and micros so that I would get in all my nutrients and still have room for a snack or two, and suddenly I could eat at a deficit and be physically, mentally and emotionally satieted. During this time, I ate pizza, donuts, chocolate, fast food, mexican food, margaritas and beer, basically everything I ate before, I just ate less of it. What helped me was gaining this knowledge and what got me through was discipline. That's the thing - I'm generally very undisciplined, I'm an emotional eater, I suffer from chronic illness and severe depression, and I have NO support besides the lovely friends I made on MFP, yet I was able to lose 93 pounds over the last couple of years, get off all my blood pressure and cholesterol drugs, and still eat the things I enjoy, in moderation. Discipline, not willpower, is what it takes to do this. But so does knowledge, and I want to thank all the long-time posters here who give of their time, experience and knowledge day after day, month after month, year after year, you have helped me achieve my weight loss goals. I have been in maintenance for seven months and have finally gotten it to stay in a three-pound range. It is a thankless job for you all, but I appreciate what you continue to contribute and you are doing some people a world of good.
I was a newbie, I read, I learned and I succeeded. There is no reason at all that others can't do the same.44 -
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LaceyBirds wrote: »I came to MFP just shy of two years ago, and had no knowledge of nutrition or how to lose weight. I had been trying on my own, and had lost 21 pounds in the previous six or seven months, and although I was eating less, I was not, in retrospect, getting nearly enough protein or other essentials into my diet, and I was starving all the time. I was close to throwing in the towel and was online looking for a sustainable way to lose weight when I found MFP. I started immediately logging, and then began lurking and reading the forums.
I disagree with some of the statements in this thread, especially about the contention that most of the advice is snarky and superior. There have been a million zillion threads about this same subject, and the same posters, day after day, try to refute that they are saying to eat nothing but junk food as long as it's within your calorie deficit. If not for these people, some of whom are sadly gone now, I would not have learned that I could actually eat something other than grass and lose weight. It didn't take me long to learn this, and it is because of the posters that you see in this thread and alumni that I did. I am no different than any other newbie - I started out with no knowledge and now have a lot because of these threads and these people.
Because of their great "garbage" advice, I didn't deprive myself of foods I liked, I learned to chart my macros and micros so that I would get in all my nutrients and still have room for a snack or two, and suddenly I could eat at a deficit and be physically, mentally and emotionally satieted. During this time, I ate pizza, donuts, chocolate, fast food, mexican food, margaritas and beer, basically everything I ate before, I just ate less of it. What helped me was gaining this knowledge and what got me through was discipline. That's the thing - I'm generally very undisciplined, I'm an emotional eater, I suffer from chronic illness and severe depression, and I have NO support besides the lovely friends I made on MFP, yet I was able to lose 93 pounds over the last couple of years, get off all my blood pressure and cholesterol drugs, and still eat the things I enjoy, in moderation. Discipline, not willpower, is what it takes to do this. But so does knowledge, and I want to thank all the long-time posters here who give of their time, experience and knowledge day after day, month after month, year after year, you have helped me achieve my weight loss goals. I have been in maintenance for seven months and have finally gotten it to stay in a three-pound range. It is a thankless job for you all, but I appreciate what you continue to contribute and you are doing some people a world of good.
I was a newbie, I read, I learned and I succeeded. There is no reason at all that others can't do the same.
I regret that I have but one Awesome to give to this post...13 -
LaceyBirds wrote: »I came to MFP just shy of two years ago, and had no knowledge of nutrition or how to lose weight. I had been trying on my own, and had lost 21 pounds in the previous six or seven months, and although I was eating less, I was not, in retrospect, getting nearly enough protein or other essentials into my diet, and I was starving all the time. I was close to throwing in the towel and was online looking for a sustainable way to lose weight when I found MFP. I started immediately logging, and then began lurking and reading the forums.
I disagree with some of the statements in this thread, especially about the contention that most of the advice is snarky and superior. There have been a million zillion threads about this same subject, and the same posters, day after day, try to refute that they are saying to eat nothing but junk food as long as it's within your calorie deficit. If not for these people, some of whom are sadly gone now, I would not have learned that I could actually eat something other than grass and lose weight. It didn't take me long to learn this, and it is because of the posters that you see in this thread and alumni that I did. I am no different than any other newbie - I started out with no knowledge and now have a lot because of these threads and these people.
Because of their great "garbage" advice, I didn't deprive myself of foods I liked, I learned to chart my macros and micros so that I would get in all my nutrients and still have room for a snack or two, and suddenly I could eat at a deficit and be physically, mentally and emotionally satieted. During this time, I ate pizza, donuts, chocolate, fast food, mexican food, margaritas and beer, basically everything I ate before, I just ate less of it. What helped me was gaining this knowledge and what got me through was discipline. That's the thing - I'm generally very undisciplined, I'm an emotional eater, I suffer from chronic illness and severe depression, and I have NO support besides the lovely friends I made on MFP, yet I was able to lose 93 pounds over the last couple of years, get off all my blood pressure and cholesterol drugs, and still eat the things I enjoy, in moderation. Discipline, not willpower, is what it takes to do this. But so does knowledge, and I want to thank all the long-time posters here who give of their time, experience and knowledge day after day, month after month, year after year, you have helped me achieve my weight loss goals. I have been in maintenance for seven months and have finally gotten it to stay in a three-pound range. It is a thankless job for you all, but I appreciate what you continue to contribute and you are doing some people a world of good.
I was a newbie, I read, I learned and I succeeded. There is no reason at all that others can't do the same.
Absolutely seconded by a former newbie (and just a lurker most of the time) - I cannot say thank you enough to the veterans who come on the boards every day and try to teach the newbies and explain things like calorie counting, food logging, moderation, etc over and over and OVER, especially when there are newbies who clearly are not ready yet and refuse to listen. But for every one of those, there are probably several lurkers like myself that read along and actually learned how to achieve their goals in a safe, sustainable, and heck, even enjoyable way. So for myself and the other lurkers who rarely comment but are here reading...Veterans @diannethegeek @WinoGelato @kimny72 @lemurcat12 @Alatariel75 (I'm sure I'm going to miss someone and I'm sorry!) - THANK YOU ALL so, so much. Really. More than I can ever say. You gave me my life back.18 -
ivygirl1937 wrote: »
Absolutely seconded by a former newbie (and just a lurker most of the time) - I cannot say thank you enough to the veterans who come on the boards every day and try to teach the newbies and explain things like calorie counting, food logging, moderation, etc over and over and OVER, especially when there are newbies who clearly are not ready yet and refuse to listen. But for every one of those, there are probably several lurkers like myself that read along and actually learned how to achieve their goals in a safe, sustainable, and heck, even enjoyable way. So for myself and the other lurkers who rarely comment but are here reading...Veterans @diannethegeek @WinoGelato @kimny72 @lemurcat12 @Alatariel75 (I'm sure I'm going to miss someone and I'm sorry!) - THANK YOU ALL so, so much. Really. More than I can ever say. You gave me my life back.
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Most here agree that there are different needs for dieting if you have had an eating disorder. It makes it a lot harder, and for some saying foods are off limit is okay. But for the run of the mill dieter, it isn't needed.
Do you think there might be more than a few people using this site that have un-diagnosed eating disorders? That may explain a lot of the disagreement over proper dieting advice.2 -
My only points are, first, that there really are people who eat like this (and probably a lot more with similar but less severe problems). For all we know, the person we're replying to could be one of those people. So it's not right to say no one takes things to an extreme, because clearly some do. As far as we know, someone who's reading the advice we post could be that person. Second, "doesn't matter what you eat as long as you maintain a calorie deficit" is only true if weight loss is the only issue. If there are other issues, like nutrition and overall health, it's at best incomplete advice...
1) Yes, there clearly are people who are afflicted with various eating disorders.
2) Yes, there clearly are stupid people with no common sense who do stupid things in spite of the fact that it's a terrible idea.
Neither of the above would be paying the least bit of attention to logical common sense advice, so they're irrelevant to this thread (and the entire topic in general).14 -
leanjogreen18 wrote: »^^^Not only that adding every caveat or note would make posts incredibly long.
Yikes . . . I resemble that remark!
Back on topic, perhaps only slightly restating a few others: What seems really weird to me about the OP (post, not person) is the clear implication that standard American junk food is (1) what 'we' want, (2) how 'we' got fat, and (3) what tastes good.
To those three points, speaking only for myself:
(1) Just no (NO!).
(2) Portion control, mostly; but unnecessary and excessive carbs and cheese had a strong supporting role, plus daily (but mostly not abusive) alcohol consumption. I've been eating 83.52% (so-called) "clean" since before there was a misleading and irrational word for it.
(3) Yuck. I don't know what "loco rice" is, even. I haven't had chili cheese fries since at least 1974. Ditto Big Mac (did they even have those in 1974? Can't recall. Whopper existed, though). I'll admit to pizza, but with the whole-wheat crust, heaps of veggies (roasted eggplant is a special favorite), no meat.
I wouldn't even bring this up, but the OP speaks as if there are universals at play in this. Just as we need to different individualized ways to lose weight (though always CICO), we had many individualized ways of getting fat in the first place, and of falling off track (when that happens).
Me, I cringe every time I see the word "hyper-palatable" in its common MFP context. ((Shudder)).3 -
Yikes . . . I resemble that remark!
Back on topic, perhaps only slightly restating a few others: What seems really weird to me about the OP (post, not person) is the clear implication that standard American junk food is (1) what 'we' want, (2) how 'we' got fat, and (3) what tastes good.
To those three points, speaking only for myself:
(1) Just no (NO!).
(2) Portion control, mostly; but unnecessary and excessive carbs and cheese had a strong supporting role, plus daily (but mostly not abusive) alcohol consumption. I've been eating 83.52% (so-called) "clean" since before there was a misleading and irrational word for it.
(3) Yuck. I don't know what "loco rice" is, even. I haven't had chili cheese fries since at least 1974. Ditto Big Mac (did they even have those in 1974? Can't recall. Whopper existed, though). I'll admit to pizza, but with the whole-wheat crust, heaps of veggies (roasted eggplant is a special favorite), no meat.
I wouldn't even bring this up, but the OP speaks as if there are universals at play in this. Just as we need to different individualized ways to lose weight (though always CICO), we had many individualized ways of getting fat in the first place, and of falling off track (when that happens).
Me, I cringe every time I see the word "hyper-palatable" in its common MFP context. ((Shudder)).
Heh, I got fat by spending the kind of money some girls spend on Prada on heinously expensive gourmet ingredients, and cooking 5 course meals for the fun of it. Often. And drinking wine with them.10 -
Let me give you an example of what I think is a good way to put it. This person asked about whether they should be drinking a gallon of water a day.1) Yes, there clearly are people who are afflicted with various eating disorders.
2) Yes, there clearly are stupid people with no common sense who do stupid things in spite of the fact that it's a terrible idea.
Neither of the above would be paying the least bit of attention to logical common sense advice, so they're irrelevant to this thread (and the entire topic in general).
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10529957/gallon-of-water-a-day#latest
I think your response was perfect. Someone was confused, and you pointed them to good information. Yes, it's a tired old health rumor that people with common sense should ignore, but people are still falling for it. I'm glad you decided to give this person this information.
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Let me give you an example of what I think is a good way to put it. This person asked about whether they should be drinking a gallon of water a day.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10529957/gallon-of-water-a-day#latest
I think your response was perfect. Someone was confused, and you pointed them to good information. Yes, it's a tired old health rumor that people with common sense should ignore, but people are still falling for it. I'm glad you decided to give this person this information.
Funnily enough, as Diannethegeek has said up-thread, people often get called meanies or smartasses when they just drop a link into a thread like that. It's almost like newbies all have different, individual expectations of how they ought to be approached 11 -
I'm really very sorry that people are mean when you point them to helpful information. It's no fun to try to help people out and get flamed for it. But I do think being helpful and accurate is the way to go.Alatariel75 wrote: »Funnily enough, as Diannethegeek has said up-thread, people often get called meanies or smartasses when they just drop a link into a thread like that. It's almost like newbies all have different, individual expectations of how they ought to be approached
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Alatariel75 wrote: »
Funnily enough, as Diannethegeek has said up-thread, people often get called meanies or smartasses when they just drop a link into a thread like that. It's almost like newbies all have different, individual expectations of how they ought to be approached
^ Truth. I've been called a meanie several times for posting helpful links in threads. Some people don't like having to go do the research themselves, they just want to be spoon-fed. Others aren't really looking for answers, they're just looking for affirmation of their own ideas and they get nasty when they don't hear what they want to hear (e.g. many detox/cleanse, fad diet, fat burner, MLM threads).12 -
Too busy to write a prolonged post, but meh.. There are various forms of moderation, whether you save up calories for a while to have a big meal of something that only scratches the itch in certain quantities or budget for a small random serving of something that feels adequate to you is all personal strategy and depends on the person and situation.
Contrary to popular belief, the goal is to make dieting as sustainable as possible accounting for both hunger and desires. Stuffing as many high calorie foods as possible into your tiny calorie budget is not the goal as you might have been lead to believe. Long time dieters will learn with time and experience what is worth the calories always, sometimes, or rarely and will acquire the skill of judging each food's worthiness of the spent calories in the context of several factors,. One food could be worth it one day but not another day.
Sweeping rigid generalizations often have little practical applicability or staying power.14 -
prattiger65 wrote: »
Sorry, but this is full of nope. Common MFP fallacy, "everyone is different". Nope, everyone must abide by the laws of physics. You will lose weight in a calorie deficit no matter what you eat. My experience here on MFP for the last three years is exactly opposite of what you say, many many more people succeed by NOT restricting as opposed to those who cut out foods or food groups. It's at least 10-1, probably higher. There are so many straw men in this post it needs a warning label as a fire hazard.
Well as far as everyone is different..we are, physiologically yes, and as well as goal specific yes. You cannot be a 10% shredded athlete while trying to fit mcdonalds into your micro/macro plan every day. Maybe once or twice a week. As for the every day MFP FAM weight loss person then of course "calorie deficit, calories in calories out" is fine and dandy but for the small percentage of us on MFP who want to achieve that greater body composition and i'm sure there are more out there "in the bushes" and also maintain a cool 7-10% yr round, and even some who may be beginning competition prep, they and neither would their coach, recommend indulging in poop foods more often than not. If it is such a falsity than why do pro coaches exist, why is there such thing as "competition prep" and how do figure and bodybuilder pros continue to look like they do while only eating what they do? Or do they really just stuff their face constantly with junk behind the scenes and we don't see it? I'm not saying restricting or CUTTING foods for the every day joe and dane, but if your goal is THIS or THAT you eventually have to sacrifice THIS or THAT, its the law of success.. With every success comes failure, and a sacrifice and if you don't know that well then you haven't succeeded.1 -
I am fortunate to like vegetables (unfortunate that I like all food a bit too much! I used to sing with happiness when I was weaned apparently). I haven't battled bingeing completely - aa different story. l still like pizza, chocolate etc and have it nearly every day but I have a smaller portion and fill my plate sky high with vegetables these days, if I didn't my plate would be filled sky high with pizza. So I guess it is about overall deficit but some foods are more filing than others and if I open a packet of biscuits, well I'll eat the lot and I don't miss them when they are not there so I try to have healthier options, staying within my allowance. When I feel well!1
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This week I had a doughnut, fish and chips, ice cream, chocolate and guess what, I still lost! Magic.
I've cut down my breakfast and lunch so I can eat a decent portion at tea time and it works for me. Saying no and cutting stuff out isn't for me.
Pizza wise, I have half a supermarket one - you're right, the greasy takeaway version doesn't let me have enough.
Anyone who thinks "you can still eat what you want and lose weight" means no change to your intake is a bit delusional but the whole point of logging is realising what impact certain food choices make.
Oh, also I exercise.5 -
I recognize that I'm new, but I'm not trying to be rude or ignorant. If I made a mistake, please forgive and bear with me. I really did read the entire thread, as I said. And on behalf of the other newbies, please consider that not everyone has it all figured out yet.
You should understand that newbies are overwhelmed with complicated advice--hence the "eat what you want within your calorie goals". They come to realize themselves, as they progress, that if they eat more protein and fruits and vetetables they can eat more. This is a step by step process. I live in Italy, where quality eating is the norm. I know alot about cooking and "healthy" eating, but it's too complicated for most people that don't have that food culture to understand. Therefore, I refrain from getting complicated. I also recommend cooking classes for people that eat fast food often because they don't know how to cook.5 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »
Seriously. I am glad I was here when people who are now banned were here and freely gave out awesome advice as blunt and direct as it could possibly be.
Me too!0
This discussion has been closed.
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