"You can eat whaver you want, as long as you eat at a deficit" is true, but it's garbage advice.
Replies
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WinoGelato wrote: »
Really? I have success rates with ALL my clients and I don't preach eating "clean" at all. In fact, I do tell them to eat whatever they like AS LONG AS they don't exceed the calorie intake set for them. Do you know why people fail at diets? Because they usually are restricted from eating things they actually like. If one LEARNS how to control how much of something like eat, then the chances are higher that they will adhere to that habitual behavior.People don't want to eat 1 slice of pizza, or a 1/4 of a plate of Loco Rice, or 7 chili cheese fries. They want to have a meal. If you eat the "right amount" of junk food to stay within your calorie limits, you're going to be starving to death and it's going to cause you to eat more. Eating food that doesn't taste as good as what you want is much better than satisfying a craving and then derailing later because you were so hungry you caved. There are a few people around here who have done their time, lost their weight, and they are in good shape. These people give advice from the "look at me, I lost a ton of weight so I know what I'm doing" stand point, but seem to have forgotten what it was like to ACTUALLY live as a fat person. So when someone tells you you can have junk food, don't listen to them, not because they are lying to you - they aren't, it's true - but because the advice isn't helpful in practice.
Sorry if you can't do it, but that's an issue you deal with that you have to fix. Unless you have some actual peer reviewed clinical study that one CAN'T be taught moderation, you're just opining what you believe.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I scratch my head when you say eat what you want.....and then show what experience you have for 30 years in nutrition.
I'm not a know it all, don't claim anything. Just kinda seemed strange, with all the bad food's out there. All the preservatives and crap they put in food now days. Maybe it's a 2 step process, lose weight by eating your favorite foods at less calories then maybe changing over to clean later on after you lose the weight.
How specifically do preservatives make food "bad"? Isn't that kind of the point of preservatives, to keep food from going bad?
But seriously - eating clean is not a requirement for weight loss, or for overall health. There are plenty of nutrient dense processed foods with preservatives that can be incorporated into the context of a healthy diet. Additionally, eating "junk" food in moderation does not make a person unhealthy. What I think @ninerbuff has described about his approach, particularly with overweight and obese clients, is that simply losing weight, regardless of the types of foods one eats while losing, improves overall health. Then from there, it is possible to become more health and nutrition focused - but again, as has been said COUNTLESS times in this thread - telling someone they can eat what they want and still lose does not mean that they should eat nothing but junk food. Presuming that someone plans to eat nothing but junk food, simply because a personal trainer, or someone on the MFP boards tells them it is ok - is a strange assumption to make about someone.
So the preservatives in food aren't causing cancer, HBP, diabetes etc....Why not just go eat a triple whopper with bacon and cheese everyday. I was not being mean, it just seemed odd that a nutritionist were say eat what you want just cut back on everything.
Now let me say to your response of "How specifically do preservatives make food "bad"? That's also a strange comment to say too.
My original statement was in agreement that it's more important to lose the weight then worry about eating better later on. I just said it sounded strange. But like I said what do I know.
Since this thread hasn't been frustrating enough, I will bite. Which preservatives are you referring to which cause cancer, diabetes, and high blood pressure. Please provide scientific studies, not FoodBabe blogs. I have a chemistry degree, so don't worry about scaring me off with big chemical names. I can handle it.
I can't eat a triple bacon cheeseburger every day from a calorie perspective, but if I could, what would be the harm in it? It has carbs, fat and protein. I can easily fit a McDouble into my day, and though it's not my preference taste wise, how would that be detrimental to my health? If my morning is Greek yogurt with fruit, or eggs with spinach and ham, and my lunch is a spinach salad with salmon, how will my health be negatively impacted if I eat a McDouble in between 9 hours of work and running kids to soccer practice?17 -
fitoverfortymom wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »prattiger65 wrote: »Me too WG, and with that I am out. #ragequit
Today is my 1495th day of consecutive logging on MFP and I've been telling my friends list that I'm considering an epic ragequit before I hit 1500 days. Maybe this will be the catalyst.
Please don't.
Quick comment for @dfwesq Like you, I've moderated board elsewhere. But there is a different "feel" here when it comes to new posters. Anywhere else I've posted, people who come to a board lurk first to get a feel for what the board is like, and that simply doesn't happen here. I've no idea why or maybe the boards I participate in are different and this is the norm. For example, given the number of new people who come in asking about ACV without doing a single search first, is astounding. Now they all come here after seeing it somewhere (Facebook it seems), buying it, starting to drink it and then come looking for people who are doing the same. A quick search will very quickly tell them how useless it is, and how it is not taken seriously here. But they don't even do that basic search. I admit it astounds me. But, as per the rules here, that is acceptable. And it is considered mean to ask them to do a search.
Now, when I started, I lurked. For a fair bit. Fortunately, what I saw was people posting to research, challenging those who were expressing an unfounded opinion as fact and generally trying to be reasoned and rational in their approach (talking most veterans here). I saw Dr. Oz essentially ridiculed and most diet fads called just that. In other words, I knew I would fit in just fine and started learning, then posting.
How, or why was it different for your?
Not 100% sure this has anything to do with it, but I know for me weight loss is a relatively selfish endeavor. In most other aspects of my life, my efforts are dedicated to others - spouse, children, work, etc. MFP is all about me
(But I still lurked first and at least conduct a board search before posting any questions I have that aren't covered by that, which is rare!)
Everyone thinks they are a special snowflake.
And this is why we're friends.
It's because I'm a special snowflake, isn't it? I KNEW I was the specialest special snowflake of all!
The. Most. Specialest.3 -
HeliumIsNoble wrote: »
Going with Burger King, not McDonalds, but:
A regular cheeseburger - like the one that used to be a standard order, before everything got bigger? Is 270 calories (13g protein, 27g carbs, 12g fat) A "value" fry - which was a "regular" fry, when I was a kid, is 220 calories (3g protein, 31g cabs, 10g fat).
That, right there, used to be a standard meal at BK. 490 calories, 16g protein, 58g carbs, 22g fat. High on carbs and low on fiber, but not outside the realm of manageable. And if you're on more than 1200 calories a day, you could fit it in as lunch pretty easily.
I'd be satisfied with that meal, and I wouldn't feel particularly let down by it somehow being tiny and not filling. And yeah, no veggies (well, except for the Reagan Administration's favorite vegetable), but context matters - if this is lunch out before you go home for a balanced dinner? It's not the end of the world.6 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I am also used to forums where debate is common (sometimes polite, sometimes less so, depending on the forum, although I like polite better). Here lots of people seem to take disagreement as, well, mean, which I find puzzling.
I spent serious time on an unmoderated Skeptics forum that was downright nasty. And I was more than comfortable with that. So seeing what gets called mean here seriously makes me lass my *puppy* off.
Agreed. I've never moderated, but have participated on many, many forums. What's "mean" and "hijacking" here is small potatoes compared to anywhere else I've known. That said, the general expectation here is of support group nature, so I don't really have a problem with that, but my name is @fitoverfortymom and I'm a snarkaholic.6 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »I have to agree with this. I too lurked for a long time before posting anything. I read stickies in any forum I visit before I do anything else. It always puzzled me how people can post questions that a few seconds on Google can answer as well as not read anything before posting.
I always wonder the same. I know I have responded to a couple of posts in other forums with the trite "google is your friend" phrase,
, and I am sure that some find that annoying. But geez...it just seems to make more sense to me to do my own research first. Maybe I am just more inclined to research stuff, than to take someone's word for it. 3 -
WinoGelato wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.
I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."
Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)
What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.
To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.
Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?
YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.2 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »Quick comment for @dfwesq Like you, I've moderated board elsewhere. But there is a different "feel" here when it comes to new posters. Anywhere else I've posted, people who come to a board lurk first to get a feel for what the board is like, and that simply doesn't happen here. I've no idea why or maybe the boards I participate in are different and this is the norm.
Yes, this is one thing that has surprised me too. I lurked first and read some of the stickies, and I didn't start a thread for ages and ages. Because that was my pattern. I also always searched for threads on a topic of interest before posting, although I know we are not supposed to suggest that that would be better forum behavior.
I think it's kind of odd that people don't here, but I am sure we are all biased by where we are most familiar with.
I am also used to forums where debate is common (sometimes polite, sometimes less so, depending on the forum, although I like polite better). Here lots of people seem to take disagreement as, well, mean, which I find puzzling. My main other forum was a book one, but I've also played around or had a lengthier relationship in forums that discussed politics, law, religion, and music -- all topics that can be contentious (and indeed I recall a knock-down blow-out about Great Gatsby back in the day and a long debate about postmodern lit (mostly what it is and does it suck or not), so the internet can be weird).
I get the sense that the newbie posters on MFP are more likely to be familiar with areas of the internet I am not (YouTube followers, instagram, of course FB), and less so some of the areas I find most interesting (and some maybe aren't particularly into forums or different forum cultures -- this one definitely is moderated much more than the others I've been part of, even though they were quite friendly overall, so nothing bad came of light moderation and self-moderation).
I admit that all of these impressions may be related to the fact that I am old (I remember usenet), and I never did fitness internet pre MFP.
I have to agree with this. I too lurked for a long time before posting anything. I read stickies in any forum I visit before I do anything else. It always puzzled me how people can post questions that a few seconds on Google can answer as well as not read anything before posting.
I was also a member of a certain popular baby board and if you want to see mean drop a cloth diapering is the only way thread and watch the explosion. :laugh:
Breastfeeding vs. Bottle is way worse than cloth diapering
I also lurked and read everything before I started posting. I thought that was basic internet etiquette.
One of the things regarding the push back veterans see from newbies I think has to do with the psychology of dieters. How to phrase this... dieting is personal. A lot of people are mired in a set of complex feelings regarding their weight and losing that weight and bring all of that with them when they come to these forums.
I'm not saying this justifies how they act, mind you. I think, in an ideal world, people should accept responsibility for their actions and be civil to each other and give other people credit for treating them with good intent. Saying that, I know that a lot of people on certain parts of their path to weight loss aren't really at a place where they're truly accepting full responsibility for their part in being overweight in the first place, and are defensive and come here in that sort of vulnerable fragility that being on the defense places you.
It puts anyone giving them advice in a damned if you do, damned if you don't position.4 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.
I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."
Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)
What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.
To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.
Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?
YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.
Why would you assume that people who are eating healthy aren't "eating what they want"?
Why do you assume that new users are completely ignorant of the fact that humans have nutritional needs?
Presumably if they're living long enough to get to the forums, they're already meeting their needs and they aren't going to replace the foods that have been meeting those needs with a diet consisting only of a jumbo bag of Skittles and vodka just because someone online tells them they can eat the foods they like and still lose weight.14 -
You guys just take every single word someone writes literally, to the t. I don't mean that you have to spend the rest of your life not eating things you enjoy. I also don't mean that you can NEVER have things you enjoy, or that are calorie dense. What I do mean, and was obvious in the original post, that is if you aren't just looking for something to complain about, is that dieting under the idea that "you can have whatever, so long as it fits in your calorie count" is not an effective long term solution because MOST people, especially larger people, run out of calories waaaaay before they become satiated. If you are a 135lb woman that's 5'9 which I think was an example somewhere in this thread, and you're only eating at a 500 calorie deficit, no *kitten* you are gonna be full before you run out of calories. You're small, even if you aren't at your "goal" you are going to feel satiated. If you are the kind of person who is accustomed to eating 3500-4000 calories a day and your prescribed amount is 2500, there is absolutely NO WAY that you can eat the calorie dense foods you enjoy, but at a lower quantity, and not be absolutely starving to death. Which will lead to a derailment in most people. Contrary to popular belief, will power is not a dominant trait. So there you go, here's another post for you guys to pick apart to for *kitten* that is obviously not what I meant.
I agree and I agreed with your original post as well. I knew exactly where you were coming from. But of course, the one's that have it all figured out (now) or never struggled with it will tear apart your statement....4 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.
I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."
Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)
What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.
To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.
Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?
YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.
At the risk of rehashing the same argument that has been made 50+ times in this forum, I will bite. You are talking about two different things again. The people posting are saying that yes you can eat whatever you want within your caloric goals TO LOSE WEIGHT. No one is saying that would be the healthiest diet in the world, but that it would in fact still reduce weight. They are not saying you would hit all of your macros or that it would be "clean"; they are only saying that it would still lead to weight loss.8 -
Would just like to point out, over the weekend I ate out at restaurants 3 times.
Fish Tacos, Nachos and 2 Guinness's And a loaded chocolate ice cream cookie dessert thing.
The day after I had Fish Tacos again, 6 Tall Boy Bud's, and a BigMcMeal at 3am.
I did show some increase in water weight of course, 7lb to be exact, but today I weighed less than I did Friday before all this.
I'm at my lowest since I've started. During my 5 weeks since I started I have stayed on point with my meals.
No regrets.3 -
Are people really this lacking in common sense and dumb?14 -
Jessicamurray1986 wrote: »I agree with OP. The goal shouldn't be centered around getting skinny. It should be eating for health, to nourish your body. Weight loss is very helpful, but skinny people have heart attacks and diabetes.
Yes, but not nearly as many as obese/overweight individuals. The most important thing many should do for their health is to LOSE WEIGHT. You don't have to eat clean or give up individual foods to do this. The focus should initially be on weight loss. When you have calories under control, then (if you want to) you can focus on what your idea of eating for health is. Small changes one at a time are a lot easier and more sustainable.7 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »
Are people really this lacking in common sense and dumb?
Yes1 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.
I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."
Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)
What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.
To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.
Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?
YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.
Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?
Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".
And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.
I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.
16 -
STLBADGIRL wrote: »You guys just take every single word someone writes literally, to the t. I don't mean that you have to spend the rest of your life not eating things you enjoy. I also don't mean that you can NEVER have things you enjoy, or that are calorie dense. What I do mean, and was obvious in the original post, that is if you aren't just looking for something to complain about, is that dieting under the idea that "you can have whatever, so long as it fits in your calorie count" is not an effective long term solution because MOST people, especially larger people, run out of calories waaaaay before they become satiated. If you are a 135lb woman that's 5'9 which I think was an example somewhere in this thread, and you're only eating at a 500 calorie deficit, no *kitten* you are gonna be full before you run out of calories. You're small, even if you aren't at your "goal" you are going to feel satiated. If you are the kind of person who is accustomed to eating 3500-4000 calories a day and your prescribed amount is 2500, there is absolutely NO WAY that you can eat the calorie dense foods you enjoy, but at a lower quantity, and not be absolutely starving to death. Which will lead to a derailment in most people. Contrary to popular belief, will power is not a dominant trait. So there you go, here's another post for you guys to pick apart to for *kitten* that is obviously not what I meant.
I agree and I agreed with your original post as well. I knew exactly where you were coming from. But of course, the one's that have it all figured out (now) or never struggled with it will tear apart your statement....
My Lord. Never struggled? The folks who never struggled are not here. I know they exist, but the old timers giving advice here have all struggled. So now that they've worked through the struggles and figured things out,t hey can't offer insight and advice to those still struggling?
SMH19 -
cfritchley26 wrote: »I think it's silly to assume that by saying, "You can eat whatever and still lose weight if you're at a deficit" that people are going to take that and say, "Only junk for me...I will never eat a full meal again, just small bites of all the yummy junk food I love!" I mean come on, you really think that everyone out there is either eating "clean" or just shoving junk in their face and staying under calories?
Honestly cutting out everything I love is so unbelievably unsustainable for me...yesterday I had a free ice cream cone...I came in way under calories. Most days I eat veggies and lean meat, whole grain, and get in plenty of water...and most days I can also fit in a little chocolate or a treat of some kind. I would be completely lying if I said I hadn't spent almost all of my daily calories at Taco Bell on a few occasions. Making this a sustainable lifestyle change needs to allow flexibility. Most of the time I eat healthy foods and make good choices...but dang some times I would do anything for a Cheesy Gordita Crunch...see? Balance. It seems sad to deny yourself everything that isn't deemed healthy.
I love your comment here because you are depicting what you normally eat (which is healthy) without disregarding the fact that you indulge in treats too and that is what we're supposed to do. This is completely and totally socially responsible. The issue is only with those who fail to depict their full story and irresponsibly state that 'you can 'eat whatever you want' as long as your within your calorie goals. Why not say...you know what....some days I eat healthy, some days I love to eat junk food...
I love your comment because it is not misleading to others in any way and thank you for sharing!0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »Quick comment for @dfwesq Like you, I've moderated board elsewhere. But there is a different "feel" here when it comes to new posters. Anywhere else I've posted, people who come to a board lurk first to get a feel for what the board is like, and that simply doesn't happen here. I've no idea why or maybe the boards I participate in are different and this is the norm.
Yes, this is one thing that has surprised me too. I lurked first and read some of the stickies, and I didn't start a thread for ages and ages. Because that was my pattern. I also always searched for threads on a topic of interest before posting, although I know we are not supposed to suggest that that would be better forum behavior.
I think it's kind of odd that people don't here, but I am sure we are all biased by where we are most familiar with.
I am also used to forums where debate is common (sometimes polite, sometimes less so, depending on the forum, although I like polite better). Here lots of people seem to take disagreement as, well, mean, which I find puzzling. My main other forum was a book one, but I've also played around or had a lengthier relationship in forums that discussed politics, law, religion, and music -- all topics that can be contentious (and indeed I recall a knock-down blow-out about Great Gatsby back in the day and a long debate about postmodern lit (mostly what it is and does it suck or not), so the internet can be weird).
I get the sense that the newbie posters on MFP are more likely to be familiar with areas of the internet I am not (YouTube followers, instagram, of course FB), and less so some of the areas I find most interesting (and some maybe aren't particularly into forums or different forum cultures -- this one definitely is moderated much more than the others I've been part of, even though they were quite friendly overall, so nothing bad came of light moderation and self-moderation).
I admit that all of these impressions may be related to the fact that I am old (I remember usenet), and I never did fitness internet pre MFP.
I have to agree with this. I too lurked for a long time before posting anything. I read stickies in any forum I visit before I do anything else. It always puzzled me how people can post questions that a few seconds on Google can answer as well as not read anything before posting.
I was also a member of a certain popular baby board and if you want to see mean drop a cloth diapering is the only way thread and watch the explosion. :laugh:
Breastfeeding vs. Bottle is way worse than cloth diapering
I also lurked and read everything before I started posting. I thought that was basic internet etiquette.
One of the things regarding the push back veterans see from newbies I think has to do with the psychology of dieters. How to phrase this... dieting is personal. A lot of people are mired in a set of complex feelings regarding their weight and losing that weight and bring all of that with them when they come to these forums.
I'm not saying this justifies how they act, mind you. I think, in an ideal world, people should accept responsibility for their actions and be civil to each other and give other people credit for treating them with good intent. Saying that, I know that a lot of people on certain parts of their path to weight loss aren't really at a place where they're truly accepting full responsibility for their part in being overweight in the first place, and are defensive and come here in that sort of vulnerable fragility that being on the defense places you.
It puts anyone giving them advice in a damned if you do, damned if you don't position.
Cloth vs. disposable and breast vs. bottle, oh memories! Don't forget c-sections, VBACs, and the holiness of unmedicated childbirth! I'm so *kitten* happy my kids are older now and don't give a crap about how they were birthed, diapered, or fed. Age and experience has given me some perspective I didn't have as a new mom.4 -
fitoverfortymom wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »prattiger65 wrote: »Me too WG, and with that I am out. #ragequit
Today is my 1495th day of consecutive logging on MFP and I've been telling my friends list that I'm considering an epic ragequit before I hit 1500 days. Maybe this will be the catalyst.
Please don't.
Quick comment for @dfwesq Like you, I've moderated board elsewhere. But there is a different "feel" here when it comes to new posters. Anywhere else I've posted, people who come to a board lurk first to get a feel for what the board is like, and that simply doesn't happen here. I've no idea why or maybe the boards I participate in are different and this is the norm. For example, given the number of new people who come in asking about ACV without doing a single search first, is astounding. Now they all come here after seeing it somewhere (Facebook it seems), buying it, starting to drink it and then come looking for people who are doing the same. A quick search will very quickly tell them how useless it is, and how it is not taken seriously here. But they don't even do that basic search. I admit it astounds me. But, as per the rules here, that is acceptable. And it is considered mean to ask them to do a search.
Now, when I started, I lurked. For a fair bit. Fortunately, what I saw was people posting to research, challenging those who were expressing an unfounded opinion as fact and generally trying to be reasoned and rational in their approach (talking most veterans here). I saw Dr. Oz essentially ridiculed and most diet fads called just that. In other words, I knew I would fit in just fine and started learning, then posting.
How, or why was it different for your?
Not 100% sure this has anything to do with it, but I know for me weight loss is a relatively selfish endeavor. In most other aspects of my life, my efforts are dedicated to others - spouse, children, work, etc. MFP is all about me (But I still lurked first and at least conduct a board search before posting any questions I have that aren't covered by that, which is rare!)
Everyone thinks they are a special snowflake.
And this is why we're friends.
It's because I'm a special snowflake, isn't it? I KNEW I was the specialest special snowflake of all!
Sorry hon--but you're not. I am.8 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »cfritchley26 wrote: »I think it's silly to assume that by saying, "You can eat whatever and still lose weight if you're at a deficit" that people are going to take that and say, "Only junk for me...I will never eat a full meal again, just small bites of all the yummy junk food I love!" I mean come on, you really think that everyone out there is either eating "clean" or just shoving junk in their face and staying under calories?
Honestly cutting out everything I love is so unbelievably unsustainable for me...yesterday I had a free ice cream cone...I came in way under calories. Most days I eat veggies and lean meat, whole grain, and get in plenty of water...and most days I can also fit in a little chocolate or a treat of some kind. I would be completely lying if I said I hadn't spent almost all of my daily calories at Taco Bell on a few occasions. Making this a sustainable lifestyle change needs to allow flexibility. Most of the time I eat healthy foods and make good choices...but dang some times I would do anything for a Cheesy Gordita Crunch...see? Balance. It seems sad to deny yourself everything that isn't deemed healthy.
I love your comment here because you are depicting what you normally eat (which is healthy) without disregarding the fact that you indulge in treats too and that is what we're supposed to do. This is completely and totally socially responsible. The issue is only with those who fail to depict their full story and irresponsibly state that 'you can 'eat whatever you want' as long as your within your calorie goals. Why not say...you know what....some days I eat healthy, some days I love to eat junk food...
I love your comment because it is not misleading to others in any way and thank you for sharing!
What does "eat healthy" mean? If I eat an In 'n Out burger and fries after a 15 mile run, is that unhealthy? What exactly is unhealthy about it? Would a salad be better?
Edited to add that the term is pretty meaningless without context. And so is any one food in particular. What is healthy for me may not be for you and what is a treat for me might be a regular meal for you.6 -
snowflake954 wrote: »fitoverfortymom wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »prattiger65 wrote: »Me too WG, and with that I am out. #ragequit
Today is my 1495th day of consecutive logging on MFP and I've been telling my friends list that I'm considering an epic ragequit before I hit 1500 days. Maybe this will be the catalyst.
Please don't.
Quick comment for @dfwesq Like you, I've moderated board elsewhere. But there is a different "feel" here when it comes to new posters. Anywhere else I've posted, people who come to a board lurk first to get a feel for what the board is like, and that simply doesn't happen here. I've no idea why or maybe the boards I participate in are different and this is the norm. For example, given the number of new people who come in asking about ACV without doing a single search first, is astounding. Now they all come here after seeing it somewhere (Facebook it seems), buying it, starting to drink it and then come looking for people who are doing the same. A quick search will very quickly tell them how useless it is, and how it is not taken seriously here. But they don't even do that basic search. I admit it astounds me. But, as per the rules here, that is acceptable. And it is considered mean to ask them to do a search.
Now, when I started, I lurked. For a fair bit. Fortunately, what I saw was people posting to research, challenging those who were expressing an unfounded opinion as fact and generally trying to be reasoned and rational in their approach (talking most veterans here). I saw Dr. Oz essentially ridiculed and most diet fads called just that. In other words, I knew I would fit in just fine and started learning, then posting.
How, or why was it different for your?
Not 100% sure this has anything to do with it, but I know for me weight loss is a relatively selfish endeavor. In most other aspects of my life, my efforts are dedicated to others - spouse, children, work, etc. MFP is all about me (But I still lurked first and at least conduct a board search before posting any questions I have that aren't covered by that, which is rare!)
Everyone thinks they are a special snowflake.
And this is why we're friends.
It's because I'm a special snowflake, isn't it? I KNEW I was the specialest special snowflake of all!
Sorry hon--but you're not. I am.
Dammit! The username don't lie
1 -
I haven't ready any replies, but how silly to think that everyone who had extra fat got that way by eating chili cheese fries (I honestly have never had one because they look disgusting to me) or Loco Rice (no idea what this even is).
Some of us got fat by eating pretty clean. I did. Not totally clean, I did and still do eat junk food. But focusing solely on "healthy food" or "clean food" won't necessarily cause weight loss. All food has calories. Clean healthy foods are delicious and just as easy to overeat as pizza or junk food for some of us.
My philosophy re: weight loss advice is that if it doesn't seem helpful to me I just ignore it and search for advice that is helpful.11 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.
I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."
Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)
What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.
To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.
Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?
YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.
Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?
Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".
And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.
I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.
I've seen the bolded exactly once in my years here, but it was the same thread where someone labeled sodium bicarbonate as a toxin so idk how representative it was as a sample.
Seriously though, our advice will never be good enough, responsible enough, complete enough for everyone. And those claiming our advice sucks tend not to give as much themselves, ime.14 -
snowflake954 wrote: »fitoverfortymom wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »prattiger65 wrote: »Me too WG, and with that I am out. #ragequit
Today is my 1495th day of consecutive logging on MFP and I've been telling my friends list that I'm considering an epic ragequit before I hit 1500 days. Maybe this will be the catalyst.
Please don't.
Quick comment for @dfwesq Like you, I've moderated board elsewhere. But there is a different "feel" here when it comes to new posters. Anywhere else I've posted, people who come to a board lurk first to get a feel for what the board is like, and that simply doesn't happen here. I've no idea why or maybe the boards I participate in are different and this is the norm. For example, given the number of new people who come in asking about ACV without doing a single search first, is astounding. Now they all come here after seeing it somewhere (Facebook it seems), buying it, starting to drink it and then come looking for people who are doing the same. A quick search will very quickly tell them how useless it is, and how it is not taken seriously here. But they don't even do that basic search. I admit it astounds me. But, as per the rules here, that is acceptable. And it is considered mean to ask them to do a search.
Now, when I started, I lurked. For a fair bit. Fortunately, what I saw was people posting to research, challenging those who were expressing an unfounded opinion as fact and generally trying to be reasoned and rational in their approach (talking most veterans here). I saw Dr. Oz essentially ridiculed and most diet fads called just that. In other words, I knew I would fit in just fine and started learning, then posting.
How, or why was it different for your?
Not 100% sure this has anything to do with it, but I know for me weight loss is a relatively selfish endeavor. In most other aspects of my life, my efforts are dedicated to others - spouse, children, work, etc. MFP is all about me (But I still lurked first and at least conduct a board search before posting any questions I have that aren't covered by that, which is rare!)
Everyone thinks they are a special snowflake.
And this is why we're friends.
It's because I'm a special snowflake, isn't it? I KNEW I was the specialest special snowflake of all!
Sorry hon--but you're not. I am.
Dammit! The username don't like
Ha! Don't worry---you're special too
0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »Quick comment for @dfwesq Like you, I've moderated board elsewhere. But there is a different "feel" here when it comes to new posters. Anywhere else I've posted, people who come to a board lurk first to get a feel for what the board is like, and that simply doesn't happen here. I've no idea why or maybe the boards I participate in are different and this is the norm.
Yes, this is one thing that has surprised me too. I lurked first and read some of the stickies, and I didn't start a thread for ages and ages. Because that was my pattern. I also always searched for threads on a topic of interest before posting, although I know we are not supposed to suggest that that would be better forum behavior.
I think it's kind of odd that people don't here, but I am sure we are all biased by where we are most familiar with.
I am also used to forums where debate is common (sometimes polite, sometimes less so, depending on the forum, although I like polite better). Here lots of people seem to take disagreement as, well, mean, which I find puzzling. My main other forum was a book one, but I've also played around or had a lengthier relationship in forums that discussed politics, law, religion, and music -- all topics that can be contentious (and indeed I recall a knock-down blow-out about Great Gatsby back in the day and a long debate about postmodern lit (mostly what it is and does it suck or not), so the internet can be weird).
I get the sense that the newbie posters on MFP are more likely to be familiar with areas of the internet I am not (YouTube followers, instagram, of course FB), and less so some of the areas I find most interesting (and some maybe aren't particularly into forums or different forum cultures -- this one definitely is moderated much more than the others I've been part of, even though they were quite friendly overall, so nothing bad came of light moderation and self-moderation).
I admit that all of these impressions may be related to the fact that I am old (I remember usenet), and I never did fitness internet pre MFP.
I have to agree with this. I too lurked for a long time before posting anything. I read stickies in any forum I visit before I do anything else. It always puzzled me how people can post questions that a few seconds on Google can answer as well as not read anything before posting.
I was also a member of a certain popular baby board and if you want to see mean drop a cloth diapering is the only way thread and watch the explosion. :laugh:
Breastfeeding vs. Bottle is way worse than cloth diapering
I also lurked and read everything before I started posting. I thought that was basic internet etiquette.
One of the things regarding the push back veterans see from newbies I think has to do with the psychology of dieters. How to phrase this... dieting is personal. A lot of people are mired in a set of complex feelings regarding their weight and losing that weight and bring all of that with them when they come to these forums.
I'm not saying this justifies how they act, mind you. I think, in an ideal world, people should accept responsibility for their actions and be civil to each other and give other people credit for treating them with good intent. Saying that, I know that a lot of people on certain parts of their path to weight loss aren't really at a place where they're truly accepting full responsibility for their part in being overweight in the first place, and are defensive and come here in that sort of vulnerable fragility that being on the defense places you.
It puts anyone giving them advice in a damned if you do, damned if you don't position.
Cloth vs. disposable and breast vs. bottle, oh memories! Don't forget c-sections, VBACs, and the holiness of unmedicated childbirth! I'm so *kitten* happy my kids are older now and don't give a crap about how they were birthed, diapered, or fed. Age and experience has given me some perspective I didn't have as a new mom.
Mine are older too... then I had another one... Still not sure why. No just kidding I love my little munchkin. 5 -
STLBADGIRL wrote: »You guys just take every single word someone writes literally, to the t. I don't mean that you have to spend the rest of your life not eating things you enjoy. I also don't mean that you can NEVER have things you enjoy, or that are calorie dense. What I do mean, and was obvious in the original post, that is if you aren't just looking for something to complain about, is that dieting under the idea that "you can have whatever, so long as it fits in your calorie count" is not an effective long term solution because MOST people, especially larger people, run out of calories waaaaay before they become satiated. If you are a 135lb woman that's 5'9 which I think was an example somewhere in this thread, and you're only eating at a 500 calorie deficit, no *kitten* you are gonna be full before you run out of calories. You're small, even if you aren't at your "goal" you are going to feel satiated. If you are the kind of person who is accustomed to eating 3500-4000 calories a day and your prescribed amount is 2500, there is absolutely NO WAY that you can eat the calorie dense foods you enjoy, but at a lower quantity, and not be absolutely starving to death. Which will lead to a derailment in most people. Contrary to popular belief, will power is not a dominant trait. So there you go, here's another post for you guys to pick apart to for *kitten* that is obviously not what I meant.
I agree and I agreed with your original post as well. I knew exactly where you were coming from. But of course, the one's that have it all figured out (now) or never struggled with it will tear apart your statement....
I'm pretty sure everyone here has struggled. The previous comment here lacks context...nobody ever advocates for a diet consisting of all junk food..."eat what you want in a deficit" doesn't mean eat all the junk...it means you can treat yourself from time to time...which is sustainable because really, I doubt your going to go through all of eternity without eating something purely for enjoyment.
I eat very well from a nutritional standpoint most of the time...I also have pizza and we watch a movie as a family on Friday evenings. It's irrelevant to my diet as a whole. Yesterday I took my kids to Lego Batman because my eldest turned 7 and that's what he wanted to do...I had a hotdog...I think I'll live...it's pretty immaterial to the whole of my diet.8 -
STLBADGIRL wrote: »You guys just take every single word someone writes literally, to the t. I don't mean that you have to spend the rest of your life not eating things you enjoy. I also don't mean that you can NEVER have things you enjoy, or that are calorie dense. What I do mean, and was obvious in the original post, that is if you aren't just looking for something to complain about, is that dieting under the idea that "you can have whatever, so long as it fits in your calorie count" is not an effective long term solution because MOST people, especially larger people, run out of calories waaaaay before they become satiated. If you are a 135lb woman that's 5'9 which I think was an example somewhere in this thread, and you're only eating at a 500 calorie deficit, no *kitten* you are gonna be full before you run out of calories. You're small, even if you aren't at your "goal" you are going to feel satiated. If you are the kind of person who is accustomed to eating 3500-4000 calories a day and your prescribed amount is 2500, there is absolutely NO WAY that you can eat the calorie dense foods you enjoy, but at a lower quantity, and not be absolutely starving to death. Which will lead to a derailment in most people. Contrary to popular belief, will power is not a dominant trait. So there you go, here's another post for you guys to pick apart to for *kitten* that is obviously not what I meant.
I agree and I agreed with your original post as well. I knew exactly where you were coming from. But of course, the one's that have it all figured out (now) or never struggled with it will tear apart your statement....
How do you know who struggled or who is still struggling?7 -
VioletRojo wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »cfritchley26 wrote: »I think it's silly to assume that by saying, "You can eat whatever and still lose weight if you're at a deficit" that people are going to take that and say, "Only junk for me...I will never eat a full meal again, just small bites of all the yummy junk food I love!" I mean come on, you really think that everyone out there is either eating "clean" or just shoving junk in their face and staying under calories?
Honestly cutting out everything I love is so unbelievably unsustainable for me...yesterday I had a free ice cream cone...I came in way under calories. Most days I eat veggies and lean meat, whole grain, and get in plenty of water...and most days I can also fit in a little chocolate or a treat of some kind. I would be completely lying if I said I hadn't spent almost all of my daily calories at Taco Bell on a few occasions. Making this a sustainable lifestyle change needs to allow flexibility. Most of the time I eat healthy foods and make good choices...but dang some times I would do anything for a Cheesy Gordita Crunch...see? Balance. It seems sad to deny yourself everything that isn't deemed healthy.
I love your comment here because you are depicting what you normally eat (which is healthy) without disregarding the fact that you indulge in treats too and that is what we're supposed to do. This is completely and totally socially responsible. The issue is only with those who fail to depict their full story and irresponsibly state that 'you can 'eat whatever you want' as long as your within your calorie goals. Why not say...you know what....some days I eat healthy, some days I love to eat junk food...
I love your comment because it is not misleading to others in any way and thank you for sharing!
What does "eat healthy" mean? If I eat an In 'n Out burger and fries after a 15 mile run, is that unhealthy? What exactly is unhealthy about it? Would a salad be better?
Edited to add that the term is pretty meaningless without context. And so is any one food in particular. What is healthy for me may not be for you and what is a treat for me might be a regular meal for you.
I agree. Even health/nutrition researchers are changing the definition of healthy.
Eggs are bad. Eggs are good.
Eat high carb/low protein. Eat high protein/low carb.
Coffee is bad. Coffee is good.
Eat low fat. Eat high fat.
Don't eat saturated fat/cholesterol. Saturated fat/cholesterol may not be bad for you.
Don't eat white carbs, gluten. Eat only clean foods (This one personally drives me nuts).
One of the latest is don't eat food with chemicals in it. Good luck with that.
14 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Right here! I would rather have a lot of food than a little bit. If I have some teensy-weensy, tee-niney, pigmy sized pea shaped piece of something magically delicious I will not be satisfied. I save the junk for when I REALLY want it. I may blow my calories that day but man is it ever worth it when I do! Some people really are content with two Oreos or a half-cup of ice cream. I I eat that and it's gonna be on like Donkey-Kong.
I consider this a form of moderation too, though.
One form is eat a serving (or whatever amount regularly fits in your calories) more regularly. For example, I went through a stage where I had about 200 calories for dessert every night. I'd have ice cream or cheese usually, or else a more indulgent dinner.
Another is a rare blow out. There are some things I'm not interested in eating in moderation or are hard to fit -- a Mexican restaurant, Indian restaurant, Ethiopian restaurant, rare multi-course tasting menu at a new place, maybe. So I do them more rarely (at maintenance it doesn't have to be that rarely, as I tend to do a weekend long run and long bike, but depends), but when I do them I don't try to fit a calorie goal or skip the naan and get the tandoori chicken and so on. I eat what I want and without really worrying about it and since it's not something I do weekly regardless of workout it doesn't matter. It's a form of moderation. If I felt like that about ice cream or cake (I really don't, I'd rather just have a sensible amount and not overdo), then I'd follow a similar schedule there. But I wouldn't claim that meant "eat what you want within your calories" didn't work, since that would still be what I was doing.
I love pie, I have it basically on holidays only anymore, because baking it is a bad idea unless I have other people to eat it, and because if I bake it I will want more than a piece. I haven't cut out pie and wouldn't tell anyone else you need to cut out pie. 'Cause that's not so, even though I don't eat much pie anymore.
Moderation comes in many forms. I choose to abstain more often. However the kind of moderation most often referred to around here is the "make it fit on a daily basis" moderation.1 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »Quick comment for @dfwesq Like you, I've moderated board elsewhere. But there is a different "feel" here when it comes to new posters. Anywhere else I've posted, people who come to a board lurk first to get a feel for what the board is like, and that simply doesn't happen here. I've no idea why or maybe the boards I participate in are different and this is the norm.
Yes, this is one thing that has surprised me too. I lurked first and read some of the stickies, and I didn't start a thread for ages and ages. Because that was my pattern. I also always searched for threads on a topic of interest before posting, although I know we are not supposed to suggest that that would be better forum behavior.
I think it's kind of odd that people don't here, but I am sure we are all biased by where we are most familiar with.
I am also used to forums where debate is common (sometimes polite, sometimes less so, depending on the forum, although I like polite better). Here lots of people seem to take disagreement as, well, mean, which I find puzzling. My main other forum was a book one, but I've also played around or had a lengthier relationship in forums that discussed politics, law, religion, and music -- all topics that can be contentious (and indeed I recall a knock-down blow-out about Great Gatsby back in the day and a long debate about postmodern lit (mostly what it is and does it suck or not), so the internet can be weird).
I get the sense that the newbie posters on MFP are more likely to be familiar with areas of the internet I am not (YouTube followers, instagram, of course FB), and less so some of the areas I find most interesting (and some maybe aren't particularly into forums or different forum cultures -- this one definitely is moderated much more than the others I've been part of, even though they were quite friendly overall, so nothing bad came of light moderation and self-moderation).
I admit that all of these impressions may be related to the fact that I am old (I remember usenet), and I never did fitness internet pre MFP.
I have to agree with this. I too lurked for a long time before posting anything. I read stickies in any forum I visit before I do anything else. It always puzzled me how people can post questions that a few seconds on Google can answer as well as not read anything before posting.
I was also a member of a certain popular baby board and if you want to see mean drop a cloth diapering is the only way thread and watch the explosion. :laugh:
Breastfeeding vs. Bottle is way worse than cloth diapering
I also lurked and read everything before I started posting. I thought that was basic internet etiquette.
One of the things regarding the push back veterans see from newbies I think has to do with the psychology of dieters. How to phrase this... dieting is personal. A lot of people are mired in a set of complex feelings regarding their weight and losing that weight and bring all of that with them when they come to these forums.
I'm not saying this justifies how they act, mind you. I think, in an ideal world, people should accept responsibility for their actions and be civil to each other and give other people credit for treating them with good intent. Saying that, I know that a lot of people on certain parts of their path to weight loss aren't really at a place where they're truly accepting full responsibility for their part in being overweight in the first place, and are defensive and come here in that sort of vulnerable fragility that being on the defense places you.
It puts anyone giving them advice in a damned if you do, damned if you don't position.
Cloth vs. disposable and breast vs. bottle, oh memories! Don't forget c-sections, VBACs, and the holiness of unmedicated childbirth! I'm so *kitten* happy my kids are older now and don't give a crap about how they were birthed, diapered, or fed. Age and experience has given me some perspective I didn't have as a new mom.
I wonder if all those natural childbirth moms ever received their medal in the mail.5
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