"You can eat whaver you want, as long as you eat at a deficit" is true, but it's garbage advice.
Replies
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LOL. Refreshed the page, and it was flagged already.4
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I'm so envious of people who live in a climate where oranges can be termed "backyard fruit."
Greetings from Toronto!5 -
Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »Preserving backyard fruit with.........wait for it...................SUGAR. Yay!
It's marmalade, if any one cares.
Oh yum! My grandmother used to make fresh fruit preserves. I can cook a lot of things but I never got the knack for that. Or for her homemade peanut brittle
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I wonder if Mike Judge knew it was a documentary and not a comedy?0
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Marmalade, yum been a long time since I thought of that. A funny story you might enjoy. Mama made apple butter one year and she set the apples on the kitchen counter, back then most people had linoleum on their counters, and it would wear through leaving the black backing exposed. The apples picked up that taste and I would never again eat apple butter becaue "it tasted like linoleum".3
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storyjorie wrote: »I think what the OP--and me, for that matter--are reacting to are the many responses you see on here when someone new asks something like, "Am I allowed to eat carbs?" or they freak out because they had a donut. The responses often come across as if the person who asked the question is completely clueless and you see a humorous string about all of the many unconventionally "diet-friendly" foods people here eat and still lose weight. It's not always obvious from those responses that the people offering them meant "on occasion" OR can lose on a very high calorie level. I think the truth is, we all need to find foods that fill us up, and for many of us, that's primarily going to entail the kinds of foods found in many diet books: high protein, vegetables and fruits. Not to the exclusion of splurges, but as the primary staples.
I get what you are saying and there is certainly some of that, but that does not mean that a person who doesn't understand that donuts and carbs can be part of a healthy balanced diet isn't clueless re: nutrition.
Personally I don't find many vegetables or fruits filling. Nutritious and delicious, but not filling. The only vegetables that are filling to me are beans and root vegetables.0 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.
I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."
Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)
What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.
To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.
Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?
YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.
Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?
Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".
And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.
I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.
WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...
Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.
I was going to say pretty much exactly this. I enjoy eating well and I typically crave highly nutritional foods. I take great pleasure in a large garden salad on a hot summer day...I look forward to a nice grilled salmon filet which I eat a couple nights per week...or a nice pan fried filet of cod with some lemon and dill...I love vegetables and some perfectly roasted asparagus makes my mouth water.
I actually don't like a lot of things that people seem to love for whatever reason...like fast food and prepackaged foods, etc. I prefer my food to be as fresh as possible...even our Friday night pizzas are high quality from a local pizzeria.0 -
geneticsteacher wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »SpotLighttt wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »
Preservatives are chemicals to make your food last longer. This is not natural. Food should spoil when it spoils. You should not be injecting it with stuff to make it last longer.
So glad you clarified the following because most people tend to leave it at 'you can eat WHATEVER you want' - 'telling someone they can eat what they want and still lose does not mean that they should eat nothing but junk food'
So your definition of bad is "anything non-natural"?
Because the question is how do preservatives make food "bad" -- if the argument is that the non-natural is bad, what is the justification for that?
And does this apply just to food or to everything else in our lives as well?
The most common, oldest food preservative? Is just plain salt.
Also, the oldest form of food preservation? Is controlled spoilage. Using salt.
(says the person with the basement full of all-natural, organic veggies being carefully curated while they selectively spoil in jars full of saltwater. I love pickling things).
Yep, pickling, salting, drying, freezing, fermenting -- all ways to preserve food. All are non-natural (well--fermentation happens in nature, but we do a more controlled version).
Using "non-natural" as an argument that something is bad doesn't make sense to me.
what? Wow.
I take it you disagree, but these are all human innovations to make food last longer, something you said above wasn't natural.
Food should spoil when it spoils, right?
Food preservation techniques are nearly as old as humans. It is only in our present modern society that we can go to the store and buy nothing but fresh foods if we so desire. And I don't. I prefer to buy local, in-season produce and canned/frozen if not in season.
Food preservation techniques work by inactivating the enzymes naturally found in food, thus slowing down degradation of the food. This is done by chemical (salt, vinegar, other chemical preservatives) or mechanical (freezing, canning, drying) means. It does NOT change the original chemical makeup of the food other than extracting water and, in some cases, degradation of water-soluble vitamins.
Simply not true...I think in the beginning of time we used to use natural forms of preservation but one only needs to look at their pantry to find an abundance of chemical ones.
Harmful effect of preservatives; There are certain harmful
effects of using chemicals for preservation such as ;Sulfites are
common preservatives used in various fruits,may have side
effects in form of headaches, palpitations, allergies, and even
cancer.
Nitrates and Nitrites: These additives are used as curing
agents in meat products.it gets converted into nitrous acid when
consumed and is suspected of causing stomach cancer
Benzoates are used in foods as antimicrobial preservatives,
and have been suspected to cause allergies, asthma and skin
rashes.
Sorbates/sorbic acid are added to foods as antimicrobial
preservatives. Reactions to sorbates are rare, but have included
reports of urticaria and contact dermatitis [7].
http://www.ijsrp.org/research-paper-0415/ijsrp-p4014.pdf
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prattiger65 wrote: »I wonder if Mike Judge knew it was a documentary and not a comedy?
I'd
if it wasn't sadly so true. 0 -
ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Right here! I would rather have a lot of food than a little bit. If I have some teensy-weensy, tee-niney, pigmy sized pea shaped piece of something magically delicious I will not be satisfied. I save the junk for when I REALLY want it. I may blow my calories that day but man is it ever worth it when I do! Some people really are content with two Oreos or a half-cup of ice cream. I I eat that and it's gonna be on like Donkey-Kong.
I consider this a form of moderation too, though.
One form is eat a serving (or whatever amount regularly fits in your calories) more regularly. For example, I went through a stage where I had about 200 calories for dessert every night. I'd have ice cream or cheese usually, or else a more indulgent dinner.
Another is a rare blow out. There are some things I'm not interested in eating in moderation or are hard to fit -- a Mexican restaurant, Indian restaurant, Ethiopian restaurant, rare multi-course tasting menu at a new place, maybe. So I do them more rarely (at maintenance it doesn't have to be that rarely, as I tend to do a weekend long run and long bike, but depends), but when I do them I don't try to fit a calorie goal or skip the naan and get the tandoori chicken and so on. I eat what I want and without really worrying about it and since it's not something I do weekly regardless of workout it doesn't matter. It's a form of moderation. If I felt like that about ice cream or cake (I really don't, I'd rather just have a sensible amount and not overdo), then I'd follow a similar schedule there. But I wouldn't claim that meant "eat what you want within your calories" didn't work, since that would still be what I was doing.
I love pie, I have it basically on holidays only anymore, because baking it is a bad idea unless I have other people to eat it, and because if I bake it I will want more than a piece. I haven't cut out pie and wouldn't tell anyone else you need to cut out pie. 'Cause that's not so, even though I don't eat much pie anymore.
Moderation comes in many forms. I choose to abstain more often. However the kind of moderation most often referred to around here is the "make it fit on a daily basis" moderation.
Then why do so many posts advocating for moderation say "sure, you can have X just maybe not every day?"
Because there are so many thousands of comments on these boards you will easily find "so many" of almost anything if you look for it. Many push making it fit daily, many advocate a cheat day, many advocate saving it for one when you just want it so bad you don't want to resist. You tell me why so many different views, opinions and ways of eating exist. There are many different types of people on these boards is the likely answer.
You're projecting when you say what other people mean by "moderation."
As a strong supporter of moderating, I would tell you that moderation entails controlling portion sizes on some foods and frequency of intake on others. Which foods fall into which category varies by individual. Also, moderation via control of frequency could mean only having one a day vs three a day or it could mean only having that item once a week or it could mean only having that food on holidays/special occasions.
Considering that you feel so strongly that the majority of moderation proponents on MFP think of moderation only as fitting treats into each and every day, I challenge you to find 3 frequent posters who support the concept of moderation but disagree with my definition above.3 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Right here! I would rather have a lot of food than a little bit. If I have some teensy-weensy, tee-niney, pigmy sized pea shaped piece of something magically delicious I will not be satisfied. I save the junk for when I REALLY want it. I may blow my calories that day but man is it ever worth it when I do! Some people really are content with two Oreos or a half-cup of ice cream. I I eat that and it's gonna be on like Donkey-Kong.
People say, "Don't deprive yourself!" Deprivation occurs when you do not get what you need. And I'm pretty sure I don't need to blow all my calories on a pile of chili-cheese fries.
Okay, but there are different kinds of needs: physical, emotional, and psychological spring to mind. So, here's a situation that happened to me in December. We were invited to a Hannukah party. Now, for those unaware, there are two foods that are traditionally associated with Hannukah, if you are Jewish of Eastern European descent (I don't doubt that there are other foods involved for those of Mediterranean/Middle Eastern/North African, but I'm talking about my background): Potato latkes and donuts. Usually jelly or custard donuts. And in the past, one of two things would happen to me at that kind of gathering:
Either I would be trying hard to stick to the fruit platter, while passing up the traditional foods, all the while wanting those foods and feeling miserable and deprived OR
I would give in, have the traditional foods, and feel miserable and guilty and go back for seconds and thirds.
This year?
I asked myself beforehand: How much do you think you need to be satisfied emotionally? Because you know you want the stuff, so let's just see ahead of time how bad it's going to be.
The latkes weren't going to be bad. My sister-in-law has a ceramic frying pan that doesn't require oil. I figured three was reasonable. The donuts? Sigh. 270 calories for jelly. 240 for custard. Too high to justify one... but half a custard? Yes. It was worth it at 120 calories.
So I had my three latkes and half a custard donut. And plenty of fruit and a bowl of home-made vegetable soup. And I felt satiated. And I didn't feel miserable. And I didn't feel guilty.
Now.
Did I need the latkes and half-donut?
Well... it wasn't a matter of life and death. It wasn't like I was starving and that was all there was and if I didn't have them, I'd collapse from hunger. So from a physical standpoint, no I did not. But from an emotional connection to the holiday and the foods I usually eat at that time of year? From wanting to feel like part of the crowd and not have clementines while everyone else was digging into the donuts? Yes, I think I did need them. I didn't need to go overboard. I ate what I'd planned and stayed within my calorie totals for the day. It was a treat, not a cheat. No guilt. No regrets. No deprivation.
For me, the bolded part is exactly what "eat what you like and fit it into your goals" means. It doesn't mean only eat junk food. It means eat foods that you want to eat for whatever reason and fit them into your calorie goal. You could have had a miserable time because you were never, ever under any circumstances allowed to eat latkes and donuts. But you didn't. And you could have only eaten latkes and donuts and been hungry because you used up all your calories on foods that weren't satiating, but you didn't. Because that wouldn't have really been "fitting it into your goal". That would have been making it your goal. What you did was eat some nutritious satiating foods and add some treats that you enjoyed. That is what moderation is all about. And this can be done anytime whether it is a holiday or not.
I often see people posting about things like learning to drink black coffee. No way in hell am I going to drink black coffee. I will drink less coffee and keep my sugar in it because I don't have to cut sugar completely out of my diet. I can't eat 4 servings of ice cream every day. But I can have 1 serving now and then. I will never understand how eating a small serving of ice cream is worse than never eating ice cream again. So when people come on here asking how to deal with restrictions I will always tell them that you can eat foods you like and fit them into your calorie goal. And I do not think that is "garbage advice".8 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.
I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."
Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)
What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.
To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.
Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?
YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.
Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?
Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".
And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.
I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.
WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...
Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.
'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'
If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.1 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.
I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."
Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)
What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.
To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.
Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?
YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.
Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?
Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".
And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.
I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.
WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...
Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.
'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'
If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.
Oh sweet kittens! This thread is making my head hurt
There is a plethora, an absolute cornucopia, an OVERABUNDANCE, of information about what people here do, don't, sometimes, always, never, only on the full moon, eat. They're under no obligation to list it in every post. 10 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.
I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."
Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)
What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.
To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.
Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?
YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.
Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?
Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".
And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.
I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.
WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...
Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.
'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'
If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.
Why is it so important to you to control how others speak of their own experiences?17 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.
I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."
Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)
What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.
To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.
Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?
YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.
Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?
Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".
And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.
I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.
WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...
Maybe "WHATEVER" they want is food that meets their nutritional needs and tastes good? Why does eating whatever you want have to be pizza or McDonalds? You seem to think that people only want the treat type food or something. What if they actually want chicken breast and vegetables?
Mmm, chicken breast and vegetables. I'd take that over McD crap every day and twice on Sundays. I will and have gone hungry rather than eat McD. I love a good pizza though.
We have a farm. We have fresh eggs and fruit trees/bushes and 2 large gardens. We hunt and fish. Most of our food is not only home prepared but it's home grown/procured. I put a lot of effort into our food because it is exactly what I WANT to eat. It's delicious. And when I overeat it, it makes me store fat. Oh how I wish it did not.11 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.
I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."
Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)
What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.
To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.
Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?
YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.
Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?
Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".
And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.
I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.
WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...
Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.
'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'
If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.
But the advice is being given to people who are already eating a variety of "good" and "bad" foods, so why are you assuming that anyone who receives this advice is going to immediately jettison the variety of foods they're already eating in order to lose weight on sugar water and Flamin' Hot Cheetos?14 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.
I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."
Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)
What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.
To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.
Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?
YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.
Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?
Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".
And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.
I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.
WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...
Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.
'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'
If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.
How so? What a person wants to eat is going vary greatly from person to person.
But you can eat whatever you want - whether it be fast food or store bought food or home-cooked food or food from a dumptster - and still lose weight. You can even eat that stuff and be healthy. Eating 100% processed premade meals is not a guarantee of poor health. There a good chance that you'd be healthier eating only premade meals and exercising regularly and managing your stress levels than if you ate 100% clean and natural and were sedentary and stressed.9 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.
I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."
Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)
What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.
To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.
Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?
YES...you should add this to every post.
She says these kinds of things a lot. Many of us do.Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals.
Well, in that every thread on the topic contains comments that of course food choice matters for nutrition and satiety (and everyone with the tiniest amount of common sense already knows that), I think that's a false statement.This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy!
That's because "eat what you want within your calories" does not mean ignore nutrition and many of us WANT to eat nutritious diets and know it makes us feel better. Since we have common sense. If you are reading "eat what you want within your calories" to mean "eat only junk" or some such, that's really on you, and kind of a puzzling interpretation, IMO.
Also, the threads always say "calories are what matters for weight loss, but of course food choice affects health and satiety." The problem is many think eating just one cookie makes a day not healthy or prevents weight loss, so we are explaining its not so. Unless you have some personal reason (it's a trigger food or an allergy or whatever), there's no need to cut out anything you would consider worth the calories.
Honestly, if people read "eat what you want" as "don't worry about nutrition," I think they should think about whether they really truly want to eat a non-nutritious diet, since I don't really think that's sensible, and it's not what I want. Eating what you want does not mean without a plan, mindlessly.10 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.
I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."
Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)
What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.
To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.
Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?
YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.
Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?
Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".
And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.
I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.
WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...
Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.
'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'
If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.
But WHATEVER people want to eat, is extremely individual.
Tell me what an ideal day looks like for you? What would your dream day of food look like either eating at a calorie deficit or eating at maintenance? What does an average day look like? What does a "small splurge" day look like? I bet that what you would fill each of those days with, is different than me, is different than every other poster on these boards.
Even if I say "eat anything you want in a calorie deficit, but make sure you include a variety of foods both 'good and bad' or 'healthy and unhealthy' or 'nutrient dense and calorie dense'" is going to mean something different to every person. I eat, what I feel to be, a balanced diet, but I include processed foods in that - frozen meals, frozen vegetables, etc in order to help support that balanced diet. Based on your comments, I know you would never consider that to be "healthy", so how is me qualifying my remark to say that I include healthy and not healthy, be helpful, if what I consider to be healthy you consider to be "bad" and potentially even disease inducing from some of your other statements.8 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.
I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."
Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)
What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.
To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.
Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?
YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.
Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?
Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".
And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.
I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.
WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...
Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.
'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'
If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.
Why does everyone need a nanny? Why can't people just use common sense and logic? None of this is particularly hard. Basic nutrition is pretty straight forward and common sense IMO.16 -
Just woke up and am now caught up...
1. No one #ragequit. You veterans changed my life. I'm not joking!
2. Eat what you want - read the collective thoughts in the thread, be sensible, and it doesn't mean what some of you are projecting it to mean.
3. Breastfeed, natural childbirth (2), co-sleeping but Huggies:) - 30 years ago no metals yet:(
Wow what a thread! Did I miss anything?
7 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »Quick comment for @dfwesq Like you, I've moderated board elsewhere. But there is a different "feel" here when it comes to new posters. Anywhere else I've posted, people who come to a board lurk first to get a feel for what the board is like, and that simply doesn't happen here. I've no idea why or maybe the boards I participate in are different and this is the norm.
Yes, this is one thing that has surprised me too. I lurked first and read some of the stickies, and I didn't start a thread for ages and ages. Because that was my pattern. I also always searched for threads on a topic of interest before posting, although I know we are not supposed to suggest that that would be better forum behavior.
I think it's kind of odd that people don't here, but I am sure we are all biased by where we are most familiar with.
I am also used to forums where debate is common (sometimes polite, sometimes less so, depending on the forum, although I like polite better). Here lots of people seem to take disagreement as, well, mean, which I find puzzling. My main other forum was a book one, but I've also played around or had a lengthier relationship in forums that discussed politics, law, religion, and music -- all topics that can be contentious (and indeed I recall a knock-down blow-out about Great Gatsby back in the day and a long debate about postmodern lit (mostly what it is and does it suck or not), so the internet can be weird).
I get the sense that the newbie posters on MFP are more likely to be familiar with areas of the internet I am not (YouTube followers, instagram, of course FB), and less so some of the areas I find most interesting (and some maybe aren't particularly into forums or different forum cultures -- this one definitely is moderated much more than the others I've been part of, even though they were quite friendly overall, so nothing bad came of light moderation and self-moderation).
I admit that all of these impressions may be related to the fact that I am old (I remember usenet), and I never did fitness internet pre MFP.
I have to agree with this. I too lurked for a long time before posting anything. I read stickies in any forum I visit before I do anything else. It always puzzled me how people can post questions that a few seconds on Google can answer as well as not read anything before posting.
I was also a member of a certain popular baby board and if you want to see mean drop a cloth diapering is the only way thread and watch the explosion. :laugh:
Breastfeeding vs. Bottle is way worse than cloth diapering
I also lurked and read everything before I started posting. I thought that was basic internet etiquette.
One of the things regarding the push back veterans see from newbies I think has to do with the psychology of dieters. How to phrase this... dieting is personal. A lot of people are mired in a set of complex feelings regarding their weight and losing that weight and bring all of that with them when they come to these forums.
I'm not saying this justifies how they act, mind you. I think, in an ideal world, people should accept responsibility for their actions and be civil to each other and give other people credit for treating them with good intent. Saying that, I know that a lot of people on certain parts of their path to weight loss aren't really at a place where they're truly accepting full responsibility for their part in being overweight in the first place, and are defensive and come here in that sort of vulnerable fragility that being on the defense places you.
It puts anyone giving them advice in a damned if you do, damned if you don't position.
I agree with this! I am also on that baby board and those mommas can get downright vicious. MFP is like puppies, rainbows and unicorns compared to some of the things I have seen there.7 -
leanjogreen18 wrote: »Just woke up and am now caught up...
1. No one #ragequit. You veterans changed my life. I'm not joking!
2. Eat what you want - read the collective thoughts in the thread, be sensible, and it doesn't mean what some of you are projecting it to mean.
3. Breastfeed, natural childbirth (2), co-sleeping but Huggies:) - 30 years ago no metals yet:(
Wow what a thread! Did I miss anything?
You pretty much captured it. I'm just over here eating my garbage leftover Chinese takeout and waiting to see what else unfolds!8 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.
I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."
Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)
What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.
To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.
Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?
YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.
Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?
Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".
And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.
I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.
WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...
Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.
'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'
If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.
Why should they? No one here is getting paid.15 -
leanjogreen18 wrote: »Just woke up and am now caught up...
1. No one #ragequit. You veterans changed my life. I'm not joking!
2. Eat what you want - read the collective thoughts in the thread, be sensible, and it doesn't mean what some of you are projecting it to mean.
3. Breastfeed, natural childbirth (2), co-sleeping but Huggies:) - 30 years ago no metals yet:(
Wow what a thread! Did I miss anything?
You pretty much captured it. I'm just over here eating my garbage leftover Chinese takeout and waiting to see what else unfolds!
I'm going to have 7 chili cheese fries for dinner tonight. 11 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »leanjogreen18 wrote: »Just woke up and am now caught up...
1. No one #ragequit. You veterans changed my life. I'm not joking!
2. Eat what you want - read the collective thoughts in the thread, be sensible, and it doesn't mean what some of you are projecting it to mean.
3. Breastfeed, natural childbirth (2), co-sleeping but Huggies:) - 30 years ago no metals yet:(
Wow what a thread! Did I miss anything?
You pretty much captured it. I'm just over here eating my garbage leftover Chinese takeout and waiting to see what else unfolds!
I'm going to have 7 chili cheese fries for dinner tonight.
Live a little - have 8! Just be sure to post a thread complete with nutritional details of that and everything else you ate today, micronutrient breakdown, and of course pictures.8 -
ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Right here! I would rather have a lot of food than a little bit. If I have some teensy-weensy, tee-niney, pigmy sized pea shaped piece of something magically delicious I will not be satisfied. I save the junk for when I REALLY want it. I may blow my calories that day but man is it ever worth it when I do! Some people really are content with two Oreos or a half-cup of ice cream. I I eat that and it's gonna be on like Donkey-Kong.
I consider this a form of moderation too, though.
One form is eat a serving (or whatever amount regularly fits in your calories) more regularly. For example, I went through a stage where I had about 200 calories for dessert every night. I'd have ice cream or cheese usually, or else a more indulgent dinner.
Another is a rare blow out. There are some things I'm not interested in eating in moderation or are hard to fit -- a Mexican restaurant, Indian restaurant, Ethiopian restaurant, rare multi-course tasting menu at a new place, maybe. So I do them more rarely (at maintenance it doesn't have to be that rarely, as I tend to do a weekend long run and long bike, but depends), but when I do them I don't try to fit a calorie goal or skip the naan and get the tandoori chicken and so on. I eat what I want and without really worrying about it and since it's not something I do weekly regardless of workout it doesn't matter. It's a form of moderation. If I felt like that about ice cream or cake (I really don't, I'd rather just have a sensible amount and not overdo), then I'd follow a similar schedule there. But I wouldn't claim that meant "eat what you want within your calories" didn't work, since that would still be what I was doing.
I love pie, I have it basically on holidays only anymore, because baking it is a bad idea unless I have other people to eat it, and because if I bake it I will want more than a piece. I haven't cut out pie and wouldn't tell anyone else you need to cut out pie. 'Cause that's not so, even though I don't eat much pie anymore.
Moderation comes in many forms. I choose to abstain more often. However the kind of moderation most often referred to around here is the "make it fit on a daily basis" moderation.
No, I disagree. I think the moderation discussed (I discuss it, after all) is much more broad that that. I have noticed that some tend to read it as fit in a little of everything every day, but I've never understood why that is.
For me it depends on the food and how you define "abstention." For me the latter means "will never have it, even if I really want it or its a special occasion" and under that definition I don't really abstain, but there are lots of foods that never or super rarely seem worth the calories or that I just never happen to have.
I always think it's interesting that people mention cake as something they cut out, for example, as I pretty much never had cake (well, maybe once a year) even when fat. I don't like baking cake, I don't get offered it that often, and I wouldn't go buy one at a bakery unless for some kind of special party (and usually at occasions with cake there are other desserts I like better).
But I haven't cut cake out and don't abstain from it, I just almost never have it.5 -
Jessicamurray1986 wrote: »I agree with OP. The goal shouldn't be centered around getting skinny. It should be eating for health, to nourish your body. Weight loss is very helpful, but skinny people have heart attacks and diabetes.
I agree, and I would add something that often gets left out of the equation. The OP says, "(These people) seem to have forgotten what it was like to ACTUALLY live as a fat person."
What I glean from this comment is that there is a mental component that very often needs to be addressed simultaneously with choosing specific foods as you begin calorie reduction. That is what makes "eat whatever you want at a calorie deficit" incomplete advice (not altogether bad advice.) A conscientious poster would state that it is incomplete advice.
There are foods and nutrients that support brain health, and good decision making, and there are foods that negatively impact brain health and derail good decision making. I cannot link a particular study, but I can recommend the book "The Brain Warrior's Way" by Daniel Amen, MD and Tana Amen, BSN, RN
There are also food choices and habits that can improve metabolism, so in relying just on calorie deficit, you are missing out on an opportunity for better progress. For instance, an Icelandic study on fish oil consumption (International Journal of Obesity 2007) involving 324 overweight young men proved that fish oil boosts weight loss. All the men were on a 1600 calorie nutritionally balanced diet for one month. Those taking fish oil lost an average of 10.9 pounds, while the placebo group lost an average of 7.8 pounds.
2 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Right here! I would rather have a lot of food than a little bit. If I have some teensy-weensy, tee-niney, pigmy sized pea shaped piece of something magically delicious I will not be satisfied. I save the junk for when I REALLY want it. I may blow my calories that day but man is it ever worth it when I do! Some people really are content with two Oreos or a half-cup of ice cream. I I eat that and it's gonna be on like Donkey-Kong.
I consider this a form of moderation too, though.
One form is eat a serving (or whatever amount regularly fits in your calories) more regularly. For example, I went through a stage where I had about 200 calories for dessert every night. I'd have ice cream or cheese usually, or else a more indulgent dinner.
Another is a rare blow out. There are some things I'm not interested in eating in moderation or are hard to fit -- a Mexican restaurant, Indian restaurant, Ethiopian restaurant, rare multi-course tasting menu at a new place, maybe. So I do them more rarely (at maintenance it doesn't have to be that rarely, as I tend to do a weekend long run and long bike, but depends), but when I do them I don't try to fit a calorie goal or skip the naan and get the tandoori chicken and so on. I eat what I want and without really worrying about it and since it's not something I do weekly regardless of workout it doesn't matter. It's a form of moderation. If I felt like that about ice cream or cake (I really don't, I'd rather just have a sensible amount and not overdo), then I'd follow a similar schedule there. But I wouldn't claim that meant "eat what you want within your calories" didn't work, since that would still be what I was doing.
I love pie, I have it basically on holidays only anymore, because baking it is a bad idea unless I have other people to eat it, and because if I bake it I will want more than a piece. I haven't cut out pie and wouldn't tell anyone else you need to cut out pie. 'Cause that's not so, even though I don't eat much pie anymore.
Moderation comes in many forms. I choose to abstain more often. However the kind of moderation most often referred to around here is the "make it fit on a daily basis" moderation.
Then why do so many posts advocating for moderation say "sure, you can have X just maybe not every day?"
Because there are so many thousands of comments on these boards you will easily find "so many" of almost anything if you look for it. Many push making it fit daily, many advocate a cheat day, many advocate saving it for one when you just want it so bad you don't want to resist. You tell me why so many different views, opinions and ways of eating exist. There are many different types of people on these boards is the likely answer.
You're projecting when you say what other people mean by "moderation."
As a strong supporter of moderating, I would tell you that moderation entails controlling portion sizes on some foods and frequency of intake on others. Which foods fall into which category varies by individual. Also, moderation via control of frequency could mean only having one a day vs three a day or it could mean only having that item once a week or it could mean only having that food on holidays/special occasions.
Considering that you feel so strongly that the majority of moderation proponents on MFP think of moderation only as fitting treats into each and every day, I challenge you to find 3 frequent posters who support the concept of moderation but disagree with my definition above.
When a person says what they mean, and they say it a LOT around here I am repeating not projecting. I speak on what I see. You don't even have to like it.1
This discussion has been closed.
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