"You can eat whaver you want, as long as you eat at a deficit" is true, but it's garbage advice.
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Done0
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WinoGelato wrote: »
I'm really very sorry that people are mean when you point them to helpful information. It's no fun to try to help people out and get flamed for it. But I do think being helpful and accurate is the way to go.Alatariel75 wrote: »Funnily enough, as Diannethegeek has said up-thread, people often get called meanies or smartasses when they just drop a link into a thread like that. It's almost like newbies all have different, individual expectations of how they ought to be approached
You are really fixated on this concept of people being "mean" to posters (veterans and newbies), and feeling like you need to apologize for it. I'm pretty sure I can speak for @Alatariel75 @AnvilHead and @diannethegeek , we all have thick skins and don't need to be apologized to, no one thinks people were "mean" to us. We are saying that people label us as mean, if the advice is provided in a way that isn't exactly what a person was looking for. If too blunt, if there is a hint of sarcasm, if a woo based idea is called what it is, if a link is provided instead of taking the time to type out a response - as Dianne said, these are all reasons why many of us have been criticized at some point over the years. But we've grown used to it. Just wait till a good old fashioned Friday mean people thread, you can really see the piling on!
Your last sentence seems to think that there are times when some of us aren't trying to be accurate and helpful. Again, just because YOU don't like the response, the tone, etc - does not mean it isn't helpful to someone. I personally always strive for accuracy and helpfulness, but I'm a sarcastic person and I temper some humor into my responses (sometimes more successfully than others).
You've come in as the voice of all newbies coaching us on how we should be responding, and it's grown tiresome. You don't like the way I give advice, feel it's incomplete, missing a potential hidden scenario that the OP may not have disclosed, or flat out wrong? That's fine. You are free to ignore it, add to it, correct it, even report it if you feel it's in violation of community guidelines. It's a discussion board filled with a variety of users and people use different communication styles and people respond to different communication styles. There is not one perfect response to any question(although some come awfully close). There is always something that others can add which may be helpful.
So again, rather than nitpicking veterans in this thread, just stick around and find your own voice on these boards. See you out there!
Thank you for typing basically what I was going to say, just more eloquently.
So what I've learned from this thread is... I should post a link to a stickied thread rather than give advice. I should give longer advice that fully explains my pat answers and provides several possible scenarios. I should assume newbies don't know anything about anything yet not insult their intelligence. And if I can't jump through all the hoops that each individual poster thinks advice needs in order to be helpful, I should probably just go away, no one is forcing me to try to be helpful.
I'm just going to back slowly away from this thread as it is giving me the sad feelz. I need coffee.
Yup. This is easily one of the most frustrating, discouraging threads I've ever participated in on MFP.
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Me too WG, and with that I am out. #ragequit1
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3rdof7sisters wrote: »LowCarb4Me2016 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »LowCarb4Me2016 wrote: »@3rdof7sisters and @WinoGelato.
Yeah, the eating less calories to lose weight thing. The original post in this thread and my comment you're both responding to actually doesn't refute that fact or diminish it.
OPs point was simple in his original post, if strongly and controversially worded. He doesn't want to eat one fried chicken wing, a single biscuit, and a Pepsi at Popeye's (I'm paraphrasing). It doesn't satisfy, it temps, it teases, it sets obsession thoughts in motion and ultimately, it derails. Yes. Some people are like that. I know it's shocking, wrong and silly.
Yes, yes, we know. There's hundreds if not thousands of success stories here at MFP with the same testimony. 'I ate a half cup of Ben and Jerry's ice cream every day while losing weight and look at me now! This is the way it's done. If you don't do this you'll binge on ice cream later." "Life isn't worth living without a Snickers every now and then. Eat one once in a while or you're doing it wrong and you'll put all the weight back on later." "Don't be a fool. Eat barbequed pork ribs, corn on the cob, and deep fried onion rings and don't skip dessert. Just make it fit or you're a dumbasss."
But that approach doesn't work for everyone. I know, I know. They're just not trying hard enough, they're wrong, they're destined for failure and someday, if they pay attention to the most prolific posters on MFP they'll finally get it.
I go to live meetings full of people who have successfully kept off 100+ pounds eliminating tempting foods and never picking up again. Yeah. They're out there. And they're here, at MFP whispering quietly in the bushes, running from the spotlight, and chatting in countercultural groups of likeminded weirdos.
Because if they ever described their method of success, by reducing caloric intake by ELIMINATING CERTAIN FOODS INDEFINATELY they'll get piled on like this OP did.
Really love this.
But it seems to be based in a fundamental misunderstanding of the OP. OP wasn't describing the method that worked for them personally, they were saying that people who had success with other methods were offering "garbage advice."
In reality, there are people who do really well while eliminating or heavily restricting certain foods. And there are other people who do really well without eliminating foods.
For me personally, the concept of "good" and "bad" foods sets me up for failure and it sets me up for binges. The "garbage advice" OP is complaining about is what finally enabled me to lose weight and keep it off relatively easily.
I have no problem with anyone who doesn't want to eat [x] ever again because they know it's the best way for them. But the reason threads like this tend to get out of control is because people assume that their path to success is the only path.
I read the OP as saying that people saying "CICO works for me, therefore it must work everyone" was the garbage advice.
Could you point out where OP thinks CICO is "garbage advice"? Because I did not read that.
People don't want to eat 1 slice of pizza, or a 1/4 of a plate of Loco Rice, or 7 chili cheese fries. They want to have a meal. If you eat the "right amount" of junk food to stay within your calorie limits, you're going to be starving to death and it's going to cause you to eat more. Eating food that doesn't taste as good as what you want is much better than satisfying a craving and then derailing later because you were so hungry you caved. There are a few people around here who have done their time, lost their weight, and they are in good shape. These people give advice from the "look at me, I lost a ton of weight so I know what I'm doing" stand point, but seem to have forgotten what it was like to ACTUALLY live as a fat person. So when someone tells you you can have junk food, don't listen to them, not because they are lying to you - they aren't, it's true - but because the advice isn't helpful in practice.
CICO is the ONLY way to lose weight. Semantics aside. Bottom line is to lose weight, eat less calories than your body is burning. How you arrive at your personal calorie deficit is up to each of us. It is helpful in practice, because I know from personal experience that because I have been successful this time (so far) because of a post I read on MFP saying enjoy all foods in moderation. -27 pounds since 1/1/17, so I say it can, and does work for me.
exactly! People are deliberately taking his/her points out of context.1 -
prattiger65 wrote: »Me too WG, and with that I am out. #ragequit
Today is my 1495th day of consecutive logging on MFP and I've been telling my friends list that I'm considering an epic ragequit before I hit 1500 days. Maybe this will be the catalyst.11 -
WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »
I'm really very sorry that people are mean when you point them to helpful information. It's no fun to try to help people out and get flamed for it. But I do think being helpful and accurate is the way to go.Alatariel75 wrote: »Funnily enough, as Diannethegeek has said up-thread, people often get called meanies or smartasses when they just drop a link into a thread like that. It's almost like newbies all have different, individual expectations of how they ought to be approached
You are really fixated on this concept of people being "mean" to posters (veterans and newbies), and feeling like you need to apologize for it. I'm pretty sure I can speak for @Alatariel75 @AnvilHead and @diannethegeek , we all have thick skins and don't need to be apologized to, no one thinks people were "mean" to us. We are saying that people label us as mean, if the advice is provided in a way that isn't exactly what a person was looking for. If too blunt, if there is a hint of sarcasm, if a woo based idea is called what it is, if a link is provided instead of taking the time to type out a response - as Dianne said, these are all reasons why many of us have been criticized at some point over the years. But we've grown used to it. Just wait till a good old fashioned Friday mean people thread, you can really see the piling on!
Your last sentence seems to think that there are times when some of us aren't trying to be accurate and helpful. Again, just because YOU don't like the response, the tone, etc - does not mean it isn't helpful to someone. I personally always strive for accuracy and helpfulness, but I'm a sarcastic person and I temper some humor into my responses (sometimes more successfully than others).
You've come in as the voice of all newbies coaching us on how we should be responding, and it's grown tiresome. You don't like the way I give advice, feel it's incomplete, missing a potential hidden scenario that the OP may not have disclosed, or flat out wrong? That's fine. You are free to ignore it, add to it, correct it, even report it if you feel it's in violation of community guidelines. It's a discussion board filled with a variety of users and people use different communication styles and people respond to different communication styles. There is not one perfect response to any question(although some come awfully close). There is always something that others can add which may be helpful.
So again, rather than nitpicking veterans in this thread, just stick around and find your own voice on these boards. See you out there!
Thank you for typing basically what I was going to say, just more eloquently.
So what I've learned from this thread is... I should post a link to a stickied thread rather than give advice. I should give longer advice that fully explains my pat answers and provides several possible scenarios. I should assume newbies don't know anything about anything yet not insult their intelligence. And if I can't jump through all the hoops that each individual poster thinks advice needs in order to be helpful, I should probably just go away, no one is forcing me to try to be helpful.
I'm just going to back slowly away from this thread as it is giving me the sad feelz. I need coffee.
Yup. This is easily one of the most frustrating, discouraging threads I've ever participated in on MFP.
Agreed3 -
WinoGelato wrote: »prattiger65 wrote: »Me too WG, and with that I am out. #ragequit
Today is my 1495th day of consecutive logging on MFP and I've been telling my friends list that I'm considering an epic ragequit before I hit 1500 days. Maybe this will be the catalyst.
Please don't.
Quick comment for @dfwesq Like you, I've moderated board elsewhere. But there is a different "feel" here when it comes to new posters. Anywhere else I've posted, people who come to a board lurk first to get a feel for what the board is like, and that simply doesn't happen here. I've no idea why or maybe the boards I participate in are different and this is the norm. For example, given the number of new people who come in asking about ACV without doing a single search first, is astounding. Now they all come here after seeing it somewhere (Facebook it seems), buying it, starting to drink it and then come looking for people who are doing the same. A quick search will very quickly tell them how useless it is, and how it is not taken seriously here. But they don't even do that basic search. I admit it astounds me. But, as per the rules here, that is acceptable. And it is considered mean to ask them to do a search.
Now, when I started, I lurked. For a fair bit. Fortunately, what I saw was people posting to research, challenging those who were expressing an unfounded opinion as fact and generally trying to be reasoned and rational in their approach (talking most veterans here). I saw Dr. Oz essentially ridiculed and most diet fads called just that. In other words, I knew I would fit in just fine and started learning, then posting.
How, or why was it different for your?
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Chef_Barbell wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »
I'm really very sorry that people are mean when you point them to helpful information. It's no fun to try to help people out and get flamed for it. But I do think being helpful and accurate is the way to go.Alatariel75 wrote: »Funnily enough, as Diannethegeek has said up-thread, people often get called meanies or smartasses when they just drop a link into a thread like that. It's almost like newbies all have different, individual expectations of how they ought to be approached
You are really fixated on this concept of people being "mean" to posters (veterans and newbies), and feeling like you need to apologize for it. I'm pretty sure I can speak for @Alatariel75 @AnvilHead and @diannethegeek , we all have thick skins and don't need to be apologized to, no one thinks people were "mean" to us. We are saying that people label us as mean, if the advice is provided in a way that isn't exactly what a person was looking for. If too blunt, if there is a hint of sarcasm, if a woo based idea is called what it is, if a link is provided instead of taking the time to type out a response - as Dianne said, these are all reasons why many of us have been criticized at some point over the years. But we've grown used to it. Just wait till a good old fashioned Friday mean people thread, you can really see the piling on!
Your last sentence seems to think that there are times when some of us aren't trying to be accurate and helpful. Again, just because YOU don't like the response, the tone, etc - does not mean it isn't helpful to someone. I personally always strive for accuracy and helpfulness, but I'm a sarcastic person and I temper some humor into my responses (sometimes more successfully than others).
You've come in as the voice of all newbies coaching us on how we should be responding, and it's grown tiresome. You don't like the way I give advice, feel it's incomplete, missing a potential hidden scenario that the OP may not have disclosed, or flat out wrong? That's fine. You are free to ignore it, add to it, correct it, even report it if you feel it's in violation of community guidelines. It's a discussion board filled with a variety of users and people use different communication styles and people respond to different communication styles. There is not one perfect response to any question(although some come awfully close). There is always something that others can add which may be helpful.
So again, rather than nitpicking veterans in this thread, just stick around and find your own voice on these boards. See you out there!
Thank you for typing basically what I was going to say, just more eloquently.
So what I've learned from this thread is... I should post a link to a stickied thread rather than give advice. I should give longer advice that fully explains my pat answers and provides several possible scenarios. I should assume newbies don't know anything about anything yet not insult their intelligence. And if I can't jump through all the hoops that each individual poster thinks advice needs in order to be helpful, I should probably just go away, no one is forcing me to try to be helpful.
I'm just going to back slowly away from this thread as it is giving me the sad feelz. I need coffee.
Yup. This is easily one of the most frustrating, discouraging threads I've ever participated in on MFP.
Agreed
Can't believe it's gone on this long.1 -
andrewq6100 wrote: »prattiger65 wrote: »andrewq6100 wrote: »just no twinkie diets please....
I used to be a guy that was "omg no junk (and let me rephrase JUNK for some people)) no high carb empty calorie foods like CANDY BARS GUMMY WORMS ICE CREAMS MCDONALDS once in a while or your diet is ruined" but I tried that and had what is called, for druggies..a RELAPSE...my body was at a point where it felt the need to GAIN the weight back I had lost so in turn I BINGED, because I cut out foods my body was USED to and ENJOYED. Now, even though it's in HEAVY moderation, I do enjoy those things but alas they are not a staple for my weight loss. I would never attribute my personal weight loss to the fact that "I can eat anything as long as i'm in a deficit" because for me that was simply not true. If I had eaten a sweet or candy or cake etc during my initial weight loss even IN a deficit it would for some reason turn on a switch and make me go even harder with the sweets junk etc and would essentially push me OVER my limit. Once I was able to master my mental practice of eating habits then I was able to fit in foods I enjoyed, but until then I had to enact discipline as many do to get it started.
Idc how many people say "well i didn't have to" thats fine because every human is different. But I know a lot of people i've worked with (and no i'm no where NEAR a PT or nutritionist) but they get the FASTEST results and most satisfactory results FROM eating "CLEAN AKA Not trying to worry if a candy bar cake mcdonalds will FIT in their macros". What I mean is that a lot of people doing weight loss PREFER to cut the junk out not because its BAD for them but because its just not needed for their specific goals.
Sure a treat is nice every once in a while but if Person A) want's to get shredded for a competition in 12 weeks and has never done anything in his life remotely close to this, then most likely he is NOT going to want to have anything to do with sweets and mcdonalds because it might SABATOGE his process. I'm not saying it WILL i'm saying from a mental standpoint it could. Again every person is different but I will always point back to this; flexibile dieting is KEY but eating like POOP is not. You can be in a deficit all you want while eating cakes if that's what your into, but some people, like me, prefer to just cut it out because to us, calories in vs calories out counts for a lot more than just a number and a food type.
Sorry, but this is full of nope. Common MFP fallacy, "everyone is different". Nope, everyone must abide by the laws of physics. You will lose weight in a calorie deficit no matter what you eat. My experience here on MFP for the last three years is exactly opposite of what you say, many many more people succeed by NOT restricting as opposed to those who cut out foods or food groups. It's at least 10-1, probably higher. There are so many straw men in this post it needs a warning label as a fire hazard.
Well as far as everyone is different..we are, physiologically yes, and as well as goal specific yes. You cannot be a 10% shredded athlete while trying to fit mcdonalds into your micro/macro plan every day. Maybe once or twice a week. As for the every day MFP FAM weight loss person then of course "calorie deficit, calories in calories out" is fine and dandy but for the small percentage of us on MFP who want to achieve that greater body composition and i'm sure there are more out there "in the bushes" and also maintain a cool 7-10% yr round, and even some who may be beginning competition prep, they and neither would their coach, recommend indulging in poop foods more often than not. If it is such a falsity than why do pro coaches exist, why is there such thing as "competition prep" and how do figure and bodybuilder pros continue to look like they do while only eating what they do? Or do they really just stuff their face constantly with junk behind the scenes and we don't see it? I'm not saying restricting or CUTTING foods for the every day joe and dane, but if your goal is THIS or THAT you eventually have to sacrifice THIS or THAT, its the law of success.. With every success comes failure, and a sacrifice and if you don't know that well then you haven't succeeded.
Chad Johnson/Ochocinco laughs at this. He ate McDonald's on the way to practice every day. True, I don't know his actual BF%, but c'mon, man.
Would not doubt it, but an NFL receiver is not an average individual. It would not surprise me if he needed 5000 calories a day to maintain weight. I would assume most high level athletes in that situation are probably eating 3000+ or so calories worth of nutrient dense foods to ensure proper nutrition and they are filling in the remainder up other items to ensure enough calories to fuel themselves.
The average individual would most likely be malnourished if 40% of their diet came from non-nutrient dense foods. As an example Dr John Berardi of Precision Nutrition suggest 10% of calories from non-nutrient dense foods.
http://www.precisionnutrition.com/day-2
I believe the 2015 Dietary Guidelines for Americans recommends a similar percentage of calories from non-nutrient dense foods.1 -
newheavensearth wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »
I'm really very sorry that people are mean when you point them to helpful information. It's no fun to try to help people out and get flamed for it. But I do think being helpful and accurate is the way to go.Alatariel75 wrote: »Funnily enough, as Diannethegeek has said up-thread, people often get called meanies or smartasses when they just drop a link into a thread like that. It's almost like newbies all have different, individual expectations of how they ought to be approached
You are really fixated on this concept of people being "mean" to posters (veterans and newbies), and feeling like you need to apologize for it. I'm pretty sure I can speak for @Alatariel75 @AnvilHead and @diannethegeek , we all have thick skins and don't need to be apologized to, no one thinks people were "mean" to us. We are saying that people label us as mean, if the advice is provided in a way that isn't exactly what a person was looking for. If too blunt, if there is a hint of sarcasm, if a woo based idea is called what it is, if a link is provided instead of taking the time to type out a response - as Dianne said, these are all reasons why many of us have been criticized at some point over the years. But we've grown used to it. Just wait till a good old fashioned Friday mean people thread, you can really see the piling on!
Your last sentence seems to think that there are times when some of us aren't trying to be accurate and helpful. Again, just because YOU don't like the response, the tone, etc - does not mean it isn't helpful to someone. I personally always strive for accuracy and helpfulness, but I'm a sarcastic person and I temper some humor into my responses (sometimes more successfully than others).
You've come in as the voice of all newbies coaching us on how we should be responding, and it's grown tiresome. You don't like the way I give advice, feel it's incomplete, missing a potential hidden scenario that the OP may not have disclosed, or flat out wrong? That's fine. You are free to ignore it, add to it, correct it, even report it if you feel it's in violation of community guidelines. It's a discussion board filled with a variety of users and people use different communication styles and people respond to different communication styles. There is not one perfect response to any question(although some come awfully close). There is always something that others can add which may be helpful.
So again, rather than nitpicking veterans in this thread, just stick around and find your own voice on these boards. See you out there!
Thank you for typing basically what I was going to say, just more eloquently.
So what I've learned from this thread is... I should post a link to a stickied thread rather than give advice. I should give longer advice that fully explains my pat answers and provides several possible scenarios. I should assume newbies don't know anything about anything yet not insult their intelligence. And if I can't jump through all the hoops that each individual poster thinks advice needs in order to be helpful, I should probably just go away, no one is forcing me to try to be helpful.
I'm just going to back slowly away from this thread as it is giving me the sad feelz. I need coffee.
Yup. This is easily one of the most frustrating, discouraging threads I've ever participated in on MFP.
Agreed
Can't believe it's gone on this long.
Me neither. I haven't had time to be very active in this one but I have read it and kept up with it. Every time I check my phone I expect it to be closed, but nope...It has 120 more posts I have to read. Some of which are pure comedy so I keep reading... The vicious MFP cycle.13 -
I agree with OP. The goal shouldn't be centered around getting skinny. It should be eating for health, to nourish your body. Weight loss is very helpful, but skinny people have heart attacks and diabetes.2
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WinoGelato wrote: »prattiger65 wrote: »Me too WG, and with that I am out. #ragequit
Today is my 1495th day of consecutive logging on MFP and I've been telling my friends list that I'm considering an epic ragequit before I hit 1500 days. Maybe this will be the catalyst.
That would be so unfortunate because you're someone who actually tries to help people out here.9 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »prattiger65 wrote: »Me too WG, and with that I am out. #ragequit
Today is my 1495th day of consecutive logging on MFP and I've been telling my friends list that I'm considering an epic ragequit before I hit 1500 days. Maybe this will be the catalyst.
Please don't.
Quick comment for @dfwesq Like you, I've moderated board elsewhere. But there is a different "feel" here when it comes to new posters. Anywhere else I've posted, people who come to a board lurk first to get a feel for what the board is like, and that simply doesn't happen here. I've no idea why or maybe the boards I participate in are different and this is the norm. For example, given the number of new people who come in asking about ACV without doing a single search first, is astounding. Now they all come here after seeing it somewhere (Facebook it seems), buying it, starting to drink it and then come looking for people who are doing the same. A quick search will very quickly tell them how useless it is, and how it is not taken seriously here. But they don't even do that basic search. I admit it astounds me. But, as per the rules here, that is acceptable. And it is considered mean to ask them to do a search.
Now, when I started, I lurked. For a fair bit. Fortunately, what I saw was people posting to research, challenging those who were expressing an unfounded opinion as fact and generally trying to be reasoned and rational in their approach (talking most veterans here). I saw Dr. Oz essentially ridiculed and most diet fads called just that. In other words, I knew I would fit in just fine and started learning, then posting.
How, or why was it different for your?
Not 100% sure this has anything to do with it, but I know for me weight loss is a relatively selfish endeavor. In most other aspects of my life, my efforts are dedicated to others - spouse, children, work, etc. MFP is all about me
(But I still lurked first and at least conduct a board search before posting any questions I have that aren't covered by that, which is rare!)
Everyone thinks they are a special snowflake.3 -
WinoGelato wrote: »prattiger65 wrote: »Me too WG, and with that I am out. #ragequit
Today is my 1495th day of consecutive logging on MFP and I've been telling my friends list that I'm considering an epic ragequit before I hit 1500 days. Maybe this will be the catalyst.
Please don't. There were so many helpful and knowledgeable posters when I started that helped me figure out what I was supposed to be doing. I hardly ever post, but I read a lot. Most of the truly helpful posters have gone (been banned for being helpful) and you are one of the few that are left. I you leave, you leave newbies to keto pushers and food eliminators. That won't be good for anyone.10 -
andrewq6100 wrote: »just no twinkie diets please....
I used to be a guy that was "omg no junk (and let me rephrase JUNK for some people)) no high carb empty calorie foods like CANDY BARS GUMMY WORMS ICE CREAMS MCDONALDS once in a while or your diet is ruined" but I tried that and had what is called, for druggies..a RELAPSE...my body was at a point where it felt the need to GAIN the weight back I had lost so in turn I BINGED, because I cut out foods my body was USED to and ENJOYED. Now, even though it's in HEAVY moderation, I do enjoy those things but alas they are not a staple for my weight loss. I would never attribute my personal weight loss to the fact that "I can eat anything as long as i'm in a deficit" because for me that was simply not true. If I had eaten a sweet or candy or cake etc during my initial weight loss even IN a deficit it would for some reason turn on a switch and make me go even harder with the sweets junk etc and would essentially push me OVER my limit. Once I was able to master my mental practice of eating habits then I was able to fit in foods I enjoyed, but until then I had to enact discipline as many do to get it started.
Idc how many people say "well i didn't have to" thats fine because every human is different. But I know a lot of people i've worked with (and no i'm no where NEAR a PT or nutritionist) but they get the FASTEST results and most satisfactory results FROM eating "CLEAN AKA Not trying to worry if a candy bar cake mcdonalds will FIT in their macros". What I mean is that a lot of people doing weight loss PREFER to cut the junk out not because its BAD for them but because its just not needed for their specific goals.
Sure a treat is nice every once in a while but if Person A) want's to get shredded for a competition in 12 weeks and has never done anything in his life remotely close to this, then most likely he is NOT going to want to have anything to do with sweets and mcdonalds because it might SABATOGE his process. I'm not saying it WILL i'm saying from a mental standpoint it could. Again every person is different but I will always point back to this; flexibile dieting is KEY but eating like POOP is not. You can be in a deficit all you want while eating cakes if that's what your into, but some people, like me, prefer to just cut it out because to us, calories in vs calories out counts for a lot more than just a number and a food type.
You're obviously not familiar with Sohee Lee, are you? She prepped for a contest and ate a Snickers a day to prove the point for flexible dieting.
soheefit.com/everyday-snickers/
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lemurcat12 wrote: »ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Right here! I would rather have a lot of food than a little bit. If I have some teensy-weensy, tee-niney, pigmy sized pea shaped piece of something magically delicious I will not be satisfied. I save the junk for when I REALLY want it. I may blow my calories that day but man is it ever worth it when I do! Some people really are content with two Oreos or a half-cup of ice cream. I I eat that and it's gonna be on like Donkey-Kong.
I consider this a form of moderation too, though.
One form is eat a serving (or whatever amount regularly fits in your calories) more regularly. For example, I went through a stage where I had about 200 calories for dessert every night. I'd have ice cream or cheese usually, or else a more indulgent dinner.
Another is a rare blow out. There are some things I'm not interested in eating in moderation or are hard to fit -- a Mexican restaurant, Indian restaurant, Ethiopian restaurant, rare multi-course tasting menu at a new place, maybe. So I do them more rarely (at maintenance it doesn't have to be that rarely, as I tend to do a weekend long run and long bike, but depends), but when I do them I don't try to fit a calorie goal or skip the naan and get the tandoori chicken and so on. I eat what I want and without really worrying about it and since it's not something I do weekly regardless of workout it doesn't matter. It's a form of moderation. If I felt like that about ice cream or cake (I really don't, I'd rather just have a sensible amount and not overdo), then I'd follow a similar schedule there. But I wouldn't claim that meant "eat what you want within your calories" didn't work, since that would still be what I was doing.
I love pie, I have it basically on holidays only anymore, because baking it is a bad idea unless I have other people to eat it, and because if I bake it I will want more than a piece. I haven't cut out pie and wouldn't tell anyone else you need to cut out pie. 'Cause that's not so, even though I don't eat much pie anymore.
I also tend to do the rare blow out as opposed to the daily moderation. SideSteel was the one who pointed out that it's still moderation. I just want a bigger portion. It's like banking calories, really. I'm currently saving up to eat a whole bag of Werther's Caramel Corn in one sitting. I will do this with no regrets.10 -
SpotLighttt wrote: »3rdof7sisters wrote: »LowCarb4Me2016 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »LowCarb4Me2016 wrote: »@3rdof7sisters and @WinoGelato.
Yeah, the eating less calories to lose weight thing. The original post in this thread and my comment you're both responding to actually doesn't refute that fact or diminish it.
OPs point was simple in his original post, if strongly and controversially worded. He doesn't want to eat one fried chicken wing, a single biscuit, and a Pepsi at Popeye's (I'm paraphrasing). It doesn't satisfy, it temps, it teases, it sets obsession thoughts in motion and ultimately, it derails. Yes. Some people are like that. I know it's shocking, wrong and silly.
Yes, yes, we know. There's hundreds if not thousands of success stories here at MFP with the same testimony. 'I ate a half cup of Ben and Jerry's ice cream every day while losing weight and look at me now! This is the way it's done. If you don't do this you'll binge on ice cream later." "Life isn't worth living without a Snickers every now and then. Eat one once in a while or you're doing it wrong and you'll put all the weight back on later." "Don't be a fool. Eat barbequed pork ribs, corn on the cob, and deep fried onion rings and don't skip dessert. Just make it fit or you're a dumbasss."
But that approach doesn't work for everyone. I know, I know. They're just not trying hard enough, they're wrong, they're destined for failure and someday, if they pay attention to the most prolific posters on MFP they'll finally get it.
I go to live meetings full of people who have successfully kept off 100+ pounds eliminating tempting foods and never picking up again. Yeah. They're out there. And they're here, at MFP whispering quietly in the bushes, running from the spotlight, and chatting in countercultural groups of likeminded weirdos.
Because if they ever described their method of success, by reducing caloric intake by ELIMINATING CERTAIN FOODS INDEFINATELY they'll get piled on like this OP did.
Really love this.
But it seems to be based in a fundamental misunderstanding of the OP. OP wasn't describing the method that worked for them personally, they were saying that people who had success with other methods were offering "garbage advice."
In reality, there are people who do really well while eliminating or heavily restricting certain foods. And there are other people who do really well without eliminating foods.
For me personally, the concept of "good" and "bad" foods sets me up for failure and it sets me up for binges. The "garbage advice" OP is complaining about is what finally enabled me to lose weight and keep it off relatively easily.
I have no problem with anyone who doesn't want to eat [x] ever again because they know it's the best way for them. But the reason threads like this tend to get out of control is because people assume that their path to success is the only path.
I read the OP as saying that people saying "CICO works for me, therefore it must work everyone" was the garbage advice.
Could you point out where OP thinks CICO is "garbage advice"? Because I did not read that.
People don't want to eat 1 slice of pizza, or a 1/4 of a plate of Loco Rice, or 7 chili cheese fries. They want to have a meal. If you eat the "right amount" of junk food to stay within your calorie limits, you're going to be starving to death and it's going to cause you to eat more. Eating food that doesn't taste as good as what you want is much better than satisfying a craving and then derailing later because you were so hungry you caved. There are a few people around here who have done their time, lost their weight, and they are in good shape. These people give advice from the "look at me, I lost a ton of weight so I know what I'm doing" stand point, but seem to have forgotten what it was like to ACTUALLY live as a fat person. So when someone tells you you can have junk food, don't listen to them, not because they are lying to you - they aren't, it's true - but because the advice isn't helpful in practice.
CICO is the ONLY way to lose weight. Semantics aside. Bottom line is to lose weight, eat less calories than your body is burning. How you arrive at your personal calorie deficit is up to each of us. It is helpful in practice, because I know from personal experience that because I have been successful this time (so far) because of a post I read on MFP saying enjoy all foods in moderation. -27 pounds since 1/1/17, so I say it can, and does work for me.
exactly! People are deliberately taking his/her points out of context.
Nope.
But please feel free to illustrate if you disagree.4 -
VioletRojo wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »prattiger65 wrote: »Me too WG, and with that I am out. #ragequit
Today is my 1495th day of consecutive logging on MFP and I've been telling my friends list that I'm considering an epic ragequit before I hit 1500 days. Maybe this will be the catalyst.
Please don't. There were so many helpful and knowledgeable posters when I started that helped me figure out what I was supposed to be doing. I hardly ever post, but I read a lot. Most of the truly helpful posters have gone (been banned for being helpful) and you are one of the few that are left. I you leave, you leave newbies to keto pushers and food eliminators. That won't be good for anyone.
I don't think anyone ever *wants* to leave the boards and let it be overrun by ACV and MLM threads. Especially not after years of posting here. But handing out advice day in and day out -- advice that's been specifically asked for -- only to be yelled at for it on a weekly basis starts to get to a person. I don't blame any of my fellow regulars who feel like they've needed to walk away over the years. The hope is that others will step up and take our place, but who knows. In two years this board could swing back to nothing but kitten gifs and high fives for detoxes.11 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »Quick comment for @dfwesq Like you, I've moderated board elsewhere. But there is a different "feel" here when it comes to new posters. Anywhere else I've posted, people who come to a board lurk first to get a feel for what the board is like, and that simply doesn't happen here. I've no idea why or maybe the boards I participate in are different and this is the norm.
Yes, this is one thing that has surprised me too. I lurked first and read some of the stickies, and I didn't start a thread for ages and ages. Because that was my pattern. I also always searched for threads on a topic of interest before posting, although I know we are not supposed to suggest that that would be better forum behavior.
I think it's kind of odd that people don't here, but I am sure we are all biased by where we are most familiar with.
I am also used to forums where debate is common (sometimes polite, sometimes less so, depending on the forum, although I like polite better). Here lots of people seem to take disagreement as, well, mean, which I find puzzling. My main other forum was a book one, but I've also played around or had a lengthier relationship in forums that discussed politics, law, religion, and music -- all topics that can be contentious (and indeed I recall a knock-down blow-out about Great Gatsby back in the day and a long debate about postmodern lit (mostly what it is and does it suck or not), so the internet can be weird).
I get the sense that the newbie posters on MFP are more likely to be familiar with areas of the internet I am not (YouTube followers, instagram, of course FB), and less so some of the areas I find most interesting (and some maybe aren't particularly into forums or different forum cultures -- this one definitely is moderated much more than the others I've been part of, even though they were quite friendly overall, so nothing bad came of light moderation and self-moderation).
I admit that all of these impressions may be related to the fact that I am old (I remember usenet), and I never did fitness internet pre MFP.5
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