"You can eat whaver you want, as long as you eat at a deficit" is true, but it's garbage advice.
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Not really, because it's not advice. There's a difference between my saying that a group of people needs to change their eating habits and me replying to someone who's asking a question about whether they need to eat less fast food. The person who asked a question was asking for guidance, and got it, which sounds a lot more like advice. That is why I gave the example I did, to give an example of one situation where that advice is sometimes given.leanjogreen18 wrote: »They need to change what they eat - not just how much - and to some extent they need to change their lifestyle too, to make it sustainable. So "eat whatever you want" isn't really helpful advice for those people.
Respectfully the bolded is kinda incomplete advice as well isn't it? What changes do I need to make? What foods should I eat? Can I eat nothing but Kale? See what I'm saying?
Okay, so help us out then. A newbie starts a thread and says "I really need to lose weight, but I really love carbs so I'm stuck! Help!!!" My response would be - Hey OP, you don't HAVE to go low carb, you just need to hit your calorie goal, you can eat whatever food you want!" This I guess is garbage incomplete advice. So could you please tell me what we are supposed to say, and keep in mind there are HUNDREDS of threads started every day.
Well, you know - you don't *have* to respond, but if you do then it's helpful to qualify your answers with something like 'you don't have to not eat anything made of carbohydrates ... losing weight depends on making sure you consume less energy than you expend even if a some of those calories come from simple and complex carbs (sugars. fruits, veggies,breads, rice etc). Are you wanting to restrict carbs because you know you tend to overeat with this kind of food? If so, can you identify why ... and would to rather limit your intake of *donuts/biscuits/whatever the kitten here* than cut it out? ... because you can still enjoy these things if you're willing and able to incorporate them in to a calorie controlled plan'
Or something.
Giving a short, vague, incomplete answer is often less helpful than not *helping* at all.
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I'm relatively new. The over all consensus that I have gathered from reading many posts (maybe I spend to much time here) is calorie in, calorie out, eat what you want within moderation, be realistic and learn what works for you along the way. Don't deprive yourself of junk just limit it and practise control and educate yourself on how to make these foods fit into your deficit. I have taken this on board and have reached my first weight loss goal in 6 weeks.27
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I'm relatively new. The over all consensus that I have gathered from reading many posts (maybe I spend to much time here) is calorie in, calorie out, eat what you want within moderation, be realistic and learn what works for you along the way. Don't deprive yourself of junk just limit it and practise control and educate yourself on how to make these foods fit into your deficit. I have taken this on board and have reached my first weight loss goal in 6 weeks.
You are doing it right! And the more you learn, the better your diet will get and the better choices you will make. If the posters who are being so obtuse actually saw what most of us really eat they would probably shut up. Over time you learn more and your habits change, slowly but surely. The subject has been studied ad nauseum and the highest success rates come from NOT restricting foods or food groups. Do people have success other wise? Of course, but statistically it's far less.
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prattiger65 wrote: »I'm relatively new. The over all consensus that I have gathered from reading many posts (maybe I spend to much time here) is calorie in, calorie out, eat what you want within moderation, be realistic and learn what works for you along the way. Don't deprive yourself of junk just limit it and practise control and educate yourself on how to make these foods fit into your deficit. I have taken this on board and have reached my first weight loss goal in 6 weeks.
You are doing it right! And the more you learn, the better your diet will get and the better choices you will make. If the posters who are being so obtuse actually saw what most of us really eat they would probably shut up. Over time you learn more and your habits change, slowly but surely. The subject has been studied ad nauseum and the highest success rates come from NOT restricting foods or food groups. Do people have success other wise? Of course, but statistically it's far less.
If I didn't have help from "veterans" I'd be doing it wrong, fail miserably and not be progressing. So thank you:-) to everyone9 -
prattiger65 wrote: »I'm relatively new. The over all consensus that I have gathered from reading many posts (maybe I spend to much time here) is calorie in, calorie out, eat what you want within moderation, be realistic and learn what works for you along the way. Don't deprive yourself of junk just limit it and practise control and educate yourself on how to make these foods fit into your deficit. I have taken this on board and have reached my first weight loss goal in 6 weeks.
You are doing it right! And the more you learn, the better your diet will get and the better choices you will make. If the posters who are being so obtuse actually saw what most of us really eat they would probably shut up. Over time you learn more and your habits change, slowly but surely. The subject has been studied ad nauseum and the highest success rates come from NOT restricting foods or food groups. Do people have success other wise? Of course, but statistically it's far less.
Which statistics?
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You guys just take every single word someone writes literally, to the t. I don't mean that you have to spend the rest of your life not eating things you enjoy. I also don't mean that you can NEVER have things you enjoy, or that are calorie dense. What I do mean, and was obvious in the original post, that is if you aren't just looking for something to complain about, is that dieting under the idea that "you can have whatever, so long as it fits in your calorie count" is not an effective long term solution because MOST people, especially larger people, run out of calories waaaaay before they become satiated. If you are a 135lb woman that's 5'9 which I think was an example somewhere in this thread, and you're only eating at a 500 calorie deficit, no *kitten* you are gonna be full before you run out of calories. You're small, even if you aren't at your "goal" you are going to feel satiated. If you are the kind of person who is accustomed to eating 3500-4000 calories a day and your prescribed amount is 2500, there is absolutely NO WAY that you can eat the calorie dense foods you enjoy, but at a lower quantity, and not be absolutely starving to death. Which will lead to a derailment in most people. Contrary to popular belief, will power is not a dominant trait. So there you go, here's another post for you guys to pick apart to for *kitten* that is obviously not what I meant.
This was, and is me
Here is the kicker. I NEVER feel full. I could eat plain microwaved chicken breast and green salad 10 times a day or I can eat a hotdog for lunch. I never feel full. One of the reasons I ended up so big. You get used to it and you learn to deal with it on bad days and if you fall off the wagon once in a while you get back up and carry on.
Right from the start my wife and I decided not to be too strict with the meal plan that we were given. When I discovered MFP it just got easier to track but we have been eating at about 1800 calories per day. We decided to "eat what we want to" because I've been on 2 weight loss journey's before that each lasted a few months and then I got bigger than I was before.
I've been doing flexible eating now for almost 4 years and lost 62kg while maintaining for a about 18 months so it must be working for me. In fact just this morning I changed our meals for Thursdays to include a burger over lunch.
So yes, you can absolutely eat whatever you want, as long as it fits your calorie and macro goals, and lose weight and do it for a very long time. And yes I went from eating 4000+calories per day straight into eating 1800 calories a day and yes after 4 years it still doesn't fill me up.
Regarding willpower, I've found that I pick up weight when I dont have the willpower to say no to extra food, even if it is healthy food.13 -
I'm really very sorry that people are mean when you point them to helpful information. It's no fun to try to help people out and get flamed for it. But I do think being helpful and accurate is the way to go.Alatariel75 wrote: »Funnily enough, as Diannethegeek has said up-thread, people often get called meanies or smartasses when they just drop a link into a thread like that. It's almost like newbies all have different, individual expectations of how they ought to be approached
You are really fixated on this concept of people being "mean" to posters (veterans and newbies), and feeling like you need to apologize for it. I'm pretty sure I can speak for @Alatariel75 @AnvilHead and @diannethegeek , we all have thick skins and don't need to be apologized to, no one thinks people were "mean" to us. We are saying that people label us as mean, if the advice is provided in a way that isn't exactly what a person was looking for. If too blunt, if there is a hint of sarcasm, if a woo based idea is called what it is, if a link is provided instead of taking the time to type out a response - as Dianne said, these are all reasons why many of us have been criticized at some point over the years. But we've grown used to it. Just wait till a good old fashioned Friday mean people thread, you can really see the piling on!
Your last sentence seems to think that there are times when some of us aren't trying to be accurate and helpful. Again, just because YOU don't like the response, the tone, etc - does not mean it isn't helpful to someone. I personally always strive for accuracy and helpfulness, but I'm a sarcastic person and I temper some humor into my responses (sometimes more successfully than others).
You've come in as the voice of all newbies coaching us on how we should be responding, and it's grown tiresome. You don't like the way I give advice, feel it's incomplete, missing a potential hidden scenario that the OP may not have disclosed, or flat out wrong? That's fine. You are free to ignore it, add to it, correct it, even report it if you feel it's in violation of community guidelines. It's a discussion board filled with a variety of users and people use different communication styles and people respond to different communication styles. There is not one perfect response to any question(although some come awfully close). There is always something that others can add which may be helpful.
So again, rather than nitpicking veterans in this thread, just stick around and find your own voice on these boards. See you out there!14 -
andrewq6100 wrote: »prattiger65 wrote: »andrewq6100 wrote: »just no twinkie diets please....
I used to be a guy that was "omg no junk (and let me rephrase JUNK for some people)) no high carb empty calorie foods like CANDY BARS GUMMY WORMS ICE CREAMS MCDONALDS once in a while or your diet is ruined" but I tried that and had what is called, for druggies..a RELAPSE...my body was at a point where it felt the need to GAIN the weight back I had lost so in turn I BINGED, because I cut out foods my body was USED to and ENJOYED. Now, even though it's in HEAVY moderation, I do enjoy those things but alas they are not a staple for my weight loss. I would never attribute my personal weight loss to the fact that "I can eat anything as long as i'm in a deficit" because for me that was simply not true. If I had eaten a sweet or candy or cake etc during my initial weight loss even IN a deficit it would for some reason turn on a switch and make me go even harder with the sweets junk etc and would essentially push me OVER my limit. Once I was able to master my mental practice of eating habits then I was able to fit in foods I enjoyed, but until then I had to enact discipline as many do to get it started.
Idc how many people say "well i didn't have to" thats fine because every human is different. But I know a lot of people i've worked with (and no i'm no where NEAR a PT or nutritionist) but they get the FASTEST results and most satisfactory results FROM eating "CLEAN AKA Not trying to worry if a candy bar cake mcdonalds will FIT in their macros". What I mean is that a lot of people doing weight loss PREFER to cut the junk out not because its BAD for them but because its just not needed for their specific goals.
Sure a treat is nice every once in a while but if Person A) want's to get shredded for a competition in 12 weeks and has never done anything in his life remotely close to this, then most likely he is NOT going to want to have anything to do with sweets and mcdonalds because it might SABATOGE his process. I'm not saying it WILL i'm saying from a mental standpoint it could. Again every person is different but I will always point back to this; flexibile dieting is KEY but eating like POOP is not. You can be in a deficit all you want while eating cakes if that's what your into, but some people, like me, prefer to just cut it out because to us, calories in vs calories out counts for a lot more than just a number and a food type.
Sorry, but this is full of nope. Common MFP fallacy, "everyone is different". Nope, everyone must abide by the laws of physics. You will lose weight in a calorie deficit no matter what you eat. My experience here on MFP for the last three years is exactly opposite of what you say, many many more people succeed by NOT restricting as opposed to those who cut out foods or food groups. It's at least 10-1, probably higher. There are so many straw men in this post it needs a warning label as a fire hazard.
Well as far as everyone is different..we are, physiologically yes, and as well as goal specific yes. You cannot be a 10% shredded athlete while trying to fit mcdonalds into your micro/macro plan every day. Maybe once or twice a week. As for the every day MFP FAM weight loss person then of course "calorie deficit, calories in calories out" is fine and dandy but for the small percentage of us on MFP who want to achieve that greater body composition and i'm sure there are more out there "in the bushes" and also maintain a cool 7-10% yr round, and even some who may be beginning competition prep, they and neither would their coach, recommend indulging in poop foods more often than not. If it is such a falsity than why do pro coaches exist, why is there such thing as "competition prep" and how do figure and bodybuilder pros continue to look like they do while only eating what they do? Or do they really just stuff their face constantly with junk behind the scenes and we don't see it? I'm not saying restricting or CUTTING foods for the every day joe and dane, but if your goal is THIS or THAT you eventually have to sacrifice THIS or THAT, its the law of success.. With every success comes failure, and a sacrifice and if you don't know that well then you haven't succeeded.
The OP was talking about obese individuals, concerned that the advice would not address their hunger issues. Also, the vast majority of users on these boards are not training for competition. Are there some elite athletes here, who need to dial in their diet and exercise in order to achieve optimal results? Absolutely. But those people are not looking for advice from the MFP community at large and not going to be confused by advice to "eat what you want within a calorie deficit" and think that invalidates all of the things they've learned through their years of focus and training.7 -
Christine_72 wrote: »I dont demonise foods, but there are certain foods that i avoid because the "serving size" or ridiculous amount of calories for a small amount of food is just not worth it for me. I just have trouble, or i don't want to stop eating these foods once i hit my calorie limit, and then most often than not I'm still hungry or unsatisfied afterward and I'll end up eating more and going over my calories. So for some foods, abstinence works better for me than moderation.
This.^^^^ I am generally one that eats a whole food diet but when I want something that I consider "junk food" (which is like a bowl of cereal or kettle chips in our house), I don't consider it a "cheat." I make it work within my day. Any issues I have with maintaining a deficit beyond that are purely emotional for me. But there is one thing I do NOT keep in my house, nor do I buy them - salt and vinegar chips. Because there is no such thing as eating one serving of those for me. It's all or nothing. So I choose nothing. But beyond that one item, nothing is off limits if I'm wanting it. I think others have said it well. Posters are expecting people that are reading to have common sense in interpreting what is being said, no one is advocating a junk food diet to lose weight, and even demonizing something eaten as a "cheat" isn't really helpful in the long run. If someone has an ED then common sense dictates lots of this advice might not apply to them, but surely they can figure that out? I call it eating the meat and spitting out the bones. If it doesn't apply to you, then move on.
In the beginning of my time on MFP I felt very much like people made it too simple by stating CICO. To the point where it really irritated me. But after using this for more then a year, watching, reading, and experimenting, I can conclusively say, yep, it's CICO. I've had to adjust my CICO for some health issues that others may not have, but it has still ended up being CICO. I may have other issues with health advice given on this site, but CICO still works, no matter what.3 -
I'm really very sorry that people are mean when you point them to helpful information. It's no fun to try to help people out and get flamed for it. But I do think being helpful and accurate is the way to go.Alatariel75 wrote: »Funnily enough, as Diannethegeek has said up-thread, people often get called meanies or smartasses when they just drop a link into a thread like that. It's almost like newbies all have different, individual expectations of how they ought to be approached
Why are you the ambassador for newbies? :huh:5 -
andrewq6100 wrote: »prattiger65 wrote: »andrewq6100 wrote: »just no twinkie diets please....
I used to be a guy that was "omg no junk (and let me rephrase JUNK for some people)) no high carb empty calorie foods like CANDY BARS GUMMY WORMS ICE CREAMS MCDONALDS once in a while or your diet is ruined" but I tried that and had what is called, for druggies..a RELAPSE...my body was at a point where it felt the need to GAIN the weight back I had lost so in turn I BINGED, because I cut out foods my body was USED to and ENJOYED. Now, even though it's in HEAVY moderation, I do enjoy those things but alas they are not a staple for my weight loss. I would never attribute my personal weight loss to the fact that "I can eat anything as long as i'm in a deficit" because for me that was simply not true. If I had eaten a sweet or candy or cake etc during my initial weight loss even IN a deficit it would for some reason turn on a switch and make me go even harder with the sweets junk etc and would essentially push me OVER my limit. Once I was able to master my mental practice of eating habits then I was able to fit in foods I enjoyed, but until then I had to enact discipline as many do to get it started.
Idc how many people say "well i didn't have to" thats fine because every human is different. But I know a lot of people i've worked with (and no i'm no where NEAR a PT or nutritionist) but they get the FASTEST results and most satisfactory results FROM eating "CLEAN AKA Not trying to worry if a candy bar cake mcdonalds will FIT in their macros". What I mean is that a lot of people doing weight loss PREFER to cut the junk out not because its BAD for them but because its just not needed for their specific goals.
Sure a treat is nice every once in a while but if Person A) want's to get shredded for a competition in 12 weeks and has never done anything in his life remotely close to this, then most likely he is NOT going to want to have anything to do with sweets and mcdonalds because it might SABATOGE his process. I'm not saying it WILL i'm saying from a mental standpoint it could. Again every person is different but I will always point back to this; flexibile dieting is KEY but eating like POOP is not. You can be in a deficit all you want while eating cakes if that's what your into, but some people, like me, prefer to just cut it out because to us, calories in vs calories out counts for a lot more than just a number and a food type.
Sorry, but this is full of nope. Common MFP fallacy, "everyone is different". Nope, everyone must abide by the laws of physics. You will lose weight in a calorie deficit no matter what you eat. My experience here on MFP for the last three years is exactly opposite of what you say, many many more people succeed by NOT restricting as opposed to those who cut out foods or food groups. It's at least 10-1, probably higher. There are so many straw men in this post it needs a warning label as a fire hazard.
Well as far as everyone is different..we are, physiologically yes, and as well as goal specific yes. You cannot be a 10% shredded athlete while trying to fit mcdonalds into your micro/macro plan every day. Maybe once or twice a week. As for the every day MFP FAM weight loss person then of course "calorie deficit, calories in calories out" is fine and dandy but for the small percentage of us on MFP who want to achieve that greater body composition and i'm sure there are more out there "in the bushes" and also maintain a cool 7-10% yr round, and even some who may be beginning competition prep, they and neither would their coach, recommend indulging in poop foods more often than not. If it is such a falsity than why do pro coaches exist, why is there such thing as "competition prep" and how do figure and bodybuilder pros continue to look like they do while only eating what they do? Or do they really just stuff their face constantly with junk behind the scenes and we don't see it? I'm not saying restricting or CUTTING foods for the every day joe and dane, but if your goal is THIS or THAT you eventually have to sacrifice THIS or THAT, its the law of success.. With every success comes failure, and a sacrifice and if you don't know that well then you haven't succeeded.
Chad Johnson/Ochocinco laughs at this. He ate McDonald's on the way to practice every day. True, I don't know his actual BF%, but c'mon, man.
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I'm really very sorry that people are mean when you point them to helpful information. It's no fun to try to help people out and get flamed for it. But I do think being helpful and accurate is the way to go.Alatariel75 wrote: »Funnily enough, as Diannethegeek has said up-thread, people often get called meanies or smartasses when they just drop a link into a thread like that. It's almost like newbies all have different, individual expectations of how they ought to be approached
You keep saying this as if anyone is arguing that we shouldn't be helpful and accurate.
We think we ARE helpful and accurate. The claim that threads routinely involve lots of people saying "eat what you want within calories, and don't worry a bit about nutrition or satiety" is, I can't think of a more accurate way to put this, a LIE. When questions are asked, even ones as specific as "I know I should care about nutrition too, but hypothetically could I really lose weight eating bad foods like cookies" people ALWAYS (not every person, but I think at least 50% of respondents, on average, with others not because they see it's been covered) say "yes for satiety and nutrition food choice matters, of course, but for weight loss calories are what are important first and foremost." Once again, I always say it's good to eat a healthy diet for lots of reasons, and that I personally could not stick to a diet of all junk food and think few could, and I point out that an all junk food diet is mostly a strawman. But yes, I also tell the truth, which is that for weight loss calories are what determines whether you gain, lose, or maintain -- because I think the truth is important, whatever people do with it -- and I say overall diet is what matters, not eating one particular food, and that many people do better including a variety of higher cal/lower nutrient foods within their diet, in moderation, if they enjoy those foods. What matters for nutrition is to focus on getting in what you need, which is a different approach, IMO, than one focused on cutting out things. You can cut out things and still not actually eat a variety of foods that supply the nutrients you need.
Also, as Ann said above, this idea that people who need to lose weight all like mainly these stereotypical foods is wrong and the worst kind of assumption.9 -
WinoGelato wrote: »
I'm really very sorry that people are mean when you point them to helpful information. It's no fun to try to help people out and get flamed for it. But I do think being helpful and accurate is the way to go.Alatariel75 wrote: »Funnily enough, as Diannethegeek has said up-thread, people often get called meanies or smartasses when they just drop a link into a thread like that. It's almost like newbies all have different, individual expectations of how they ought to be approached
You are really fixated on this concept of people being "mean" to posters (veterans and newbies), and feeling like you need to apologize for it. I'm pretty sure I can speak for @Alatariel75 @AnvilHead and @diannethegeek , we all have thick skins and don't need to be apologized to, no one thinks people were "mean" to us. We are saying that people label us as mean, if the advice is provided in a way that isn't exactly what a person was looking for. If too blunt, if there is a hint of sarcasm, if a woo based idea is called what it is, if a link is provided instead of taking the time to type out a response - as Dianne said, these are all reasons why many of us have been criticized at some point over the years. But we've grown used to it. Just wait till a good old fashioned Friday mean people thread, you can really see the piling on!
Your last sentence seems to think that there are times when some of us aren't trying to be accurate and helpful. Again, just because YOU don't like the response, the tone, etc - does not mean it isn't helpful to someone. I personally always strive for accuracy and helpfulness, but I'm a sarcastic person and I temper some humor into my responses (sometimes more successfully than others).
You've come in as the voice of all newbies coaching us on how we should be responding, and it's grown tiresome. You don't like the way I give advice, feel it's incomplete, missing a potential hidden scenario that the OP may not have disclosed, or flat out wrong? That's fine. You are free to ignore it, add to it, correct it, even report it if you feel it's in violation of community guidelines. It's a discussion board filled with a variety of users and people use different communication styles and people respond to different communication styles. There is not one perfect response to any question(although some come awfully close). There is always something that others can add which may be helpful.
So again, rather than nitpicking veterans in this thread, just stick around and find your own voice on these boards. See you out there!
Thank you for typing basically what I was going to say, just more eloquently.
So what I've learned from this thread is... I should post a link to a stickied thread rather than give advice. I should give longer advice that fully explains my pat answers and provides several possible scenarios. I should assume newbies don't know anything about anything yet not insult their intelligence. And if I can't jump through all the hoops that each individual poster thinks advice needs in order to be helpful, I should probably just go away, no one is forcing me to try to be helpful.
I'm just going to back slowly away from this thread as it is giving me the sad feelz. I need coffee.9 -
andrewq6100 wrote: »prattiger65 wrote: »andrewq6100 wrote: »just no twinkie diets please....
I used to be a guy that was "omg no junk (and let me rephrase JUNK for some people)) no high carb empty calorie foods like CANDY BARS GUMMY WORMS ICE CREAMS MCDONALDS once in a while or your diet is ruined" but I tried that and had what is called, for druggies..a RELAPSE...my body was at a point where it felt the need to GAIN the weight back I had lost so in turn I BINGED, because I cut out foods my body was USED to and ENJOYED. Now, even though it's in HEAVY moderation, I do enjoy those things but alas they are not a staple for my weight loss. I would never attribute my personal weight loss to the fact that "I can eat anything as long as i'm in a deficit" because for me that was simply not true. If I had eaten a sweet or candy or cake etc during my initial weight loss even IN a deficit it would for some reason turn on a switch and make me go even harder with the sweets junk etc and would essentially push me OVER my limit. Once I was able to master my mental practice of eating habits then I was able to fit in foods I enjoyed, but until then I had to enact discipline as many do to get it started.
Idc how many people say "well i didn't have to" thats fine because every human is different. But I know a lot of people i've worked with (and no i'm no where NEAR a PT or nutritionist) but they get the FASTEST results and most satisfactory results FROM eating "CLEAN AKA Not trying to worry if a candy bar cake mcdonalds will FIT in their macros". What I mean is that a lot of people doing weight loss PREFER to cut the junk out not because its BAD for them but because its just not needed for their specific goals.
Sure a treat is nice every once in a while but if Person A) want's to get shredded for a competition in 12 weeks and has never done anything in his life remotely close to this, then most likely he is NOT going to want to have anything to do with sweets and mcdonalds because it might SABATOGE his process. I'm not saying it WILL i'm saying from a mental standpoint it could. Again every person is different but I will always point back to this; flexibile dieting is KEY but eating like POOP is not. You can be in a deficit all you want while eating cakes if that's what your into, but some people, like me, prefer to just cut it out because to us, calories in vs calories out counts for a lot more than just a number and a food type.
Sorry, but this is full of nope. Common MFP fallacy, "everyone is different". Nope, everyone must abide by the laws of physics. You will lose weight in a calorie deficit no matter what you eat. My experience here on MFP for the last three years is exactly opposite of what you say, many many more people succeed by NOT restricting as opposed to those who cut out foods or food groups. It's at least 10-1, probably higher. There are so many straw men in this post it needs a warning label as a fire hazard.
Well as far as everyone is different..we are, physiologically yes, and as well as goal specific yes. You cannot be a 10% shredded athlete while trying to fit mcdonalds into your micro/macro plan every day. Maybe once or twice a week. As for the every day MFP FAM weight loss person then of course "calorie deficit, calories in calories out" is fine and dandy but for the small percentage of us on MFP who want to achieve that greater body composition and i'm sure there are more out there "in the bushes" and also maintain a cool 7-10% yr round, and even some who may be beginning competition prep, they and neither would their coach, recommend indulging in poop foods more often than not. If it is such a falsity than why do pro coaches exist, why is there such thing as "competition prep" and how do figure and bodybuilder pros continue to look like they do while only eating what they do? Or do they really just stuff their face constantly with junk behind the scenes and we don't see it? I'm not saying restricting or CUTTING foods for the every day joe and dane, but if your goal is THIS or THAT you eventually have to sacrifice THIS or THAT, its the law of success.. With every success comes failure, and a sacrifice and if you don't know that well then you haven't succeeded.
Chad Johnson/Ochocinco laughs at this. He ate McDonald's on the way to practice every day. True, I don't know his actual BF%, but c'mon, man.
Yeah. I could see that. They do salad. 1 -
It's so true that once you start learning how many calories are in a snack, you start to see that it JUST AIN'T WORTH IT every time you crave it. That's how I am learning moderation anyway... and I'm pretty sure a lot of others learn it that way too. Healthy eating doesn't mean you can't enjoy your favorite snacks sometimes...This weight loss journey ISN'T SUPPOSED TO BE MISERABLE.
Edit: After actually reading further in this thread, I've come to this end: this whole conversation is STUPID!!! EAT WHATEVER THE *KITTEN* YOU WANNA EAT!!!!4 -
People don't want to eat 1 slice of pizza, or a 1/4 of a plate of Loco Rice, or 7 chili cheese fries. They want to have a meal. If you eat the "right amount" of junk food to stay within your calorie limits, you're going to be starving to death and it's going to cause you to eat more. Eating food that doesn't taste as good as what you want is much better than satisfying a craving and then derailing later because you were so hungry you caved. There are a few people around here who have done their time, lost their weight, and they are in good shape. These people give advice from the "look at me, I lost a ton of weight so I know what I'm doing" stand point, but seem to have forgotten what it was like to ACTUALLY live as a fat person. So when someone tells you you can have junk food, don't listen to them, not because they are lying to you - they aren't, it's true - but because the advice isn't helpful in practice.
O my, someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed today. I actually do eat ONE slice of pizza, or a single serving bag of chips. But I don't eat ONLY junk food, you still have to eat healthy. So yes, if it's pizza night, I'm having a slice of pizza, a big *kitten* salad, some fruit, and a Coke zero. I f I tried to eat ONLY junk food within my calorie limit, then yes I would be starving, but for me at least, there's not problem working in some junk food.3 -
WinoGelato wrote: »
I'm really very sorry that people are mean when you point them to helpful information. It's no fun to try to help people out and get flamed for it. But I do think being helpful and accurate is the way to go.Alatariel75 wrote: »Funnily enough, as Diannethegeek has said up-thread, people often get called meanies or smartasses when they just drop a link into a thread like that. It's almost like newbies all have different, individual expectations of how they ought to be approached
You are really fixated on this concept of people being "mean" to posters (veterans and newbies), and feeling like you need to apologize for it. I'm pretty sure I can speak for @Alatariel75 @AnvilHead and @diannethegeek , we all have thick skins and don't need to be apologized to, no one thinks people were "mean" to us. We are saying that people label us as mean, if the advice is provided in a way that isn't exactly what a person was looking for. If too blunt, if there is a hint of sarcasm, if a woo based idea is called what it is, if a link is provided instead of taking the time to type out a response - as Dianne said, these are all reasons why many of us have been criticized at some point over the years. But we've grown used to it. Just wait till a good old fashioned Friday mean people thread, you can really see the piling on!
Your last sentence seems to think that there are times when some of us aren't trying to be accurate and helpful. Again, just because YOU don't like the response, the tone, etc - does not mean it isn't helpful to someone. I personally always strive for accuracy and helpfulness, but I'm a sarcastic person and I temper some humor into my responses (sometimes more successfully than others).
You've come in as the voice of all newbies coaching us on how we should be responding, and it's grown tiresome. You don't like the way I give advice, feel it's incomplete, missing a potential hidden scenario that the OP may not have disclosed, or flat out wrong? That's fine. You are free to ignore it, add to it, correct it, even report it if you feel it's in violation of community guidelines. It's a discussion board filled with a variety of users and people use different communication styles and people respond to different communication styles. There is not one perfect response to any question(although some come awfully close). There is always something that others can add which may be helpful.
So again, rather than nitpicking veterans in this thread, just stick around and find your own voice on these boards. See you out there!
Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!1 -
I am learning that I CAN eat most foods in moderation. Some foods to me AREN'T worth the calories. I'll skip the bread basket, because I can eat a more caloric meal if I skip the breads. It's the same amount of calories, but I just choose to split an order of fried green tomatoes with someone instead of eating a roll or cornbread. Nachos or a margarita ( if they are same calories). Nachos for the win!! But, I can eat sensibily and get my junk and unhealthy foods in as well. I just use moderation and plan for it. If I know I'm eating Mexican food Friday night, I eat very light lunch and breakfast that day, and I try to make a healthier choice eating that night.
I second that.
Clearly common sense should play a part in the process of figuring out the whole "how/what should I eat to stay within my budget" process. Yes there are certainly a few threads in this forum where you'll see statements that imply that this is an easy process. But we all know it's not. If it was, this website, and many others, would not exist. When I think of the bread that I used to eat, many years ago, sheesh...it's no wonder I gained nearly 60 pounds in that 5 years. It's a rare dinner that includes bread now, but back in the day I could wolf down 3 buttered rolls, easily, with my already-too-many-calories meal. That doesn't mean I never eat bread but it no longer occupies the same space in my diet. Neither do potato chips, chocolate, Kraft caramels (all things that I used to eat far too much of), etc. I can still enjoy treats, in moderation, but I can only do that by making better choices in my day. 2 -
fitmom4lifemfp wrote: »I am learning that I CAN eat most foods in moderation. Some foods to me AREN'T worth the calories. I'll skip the bread basket, because I can eat a more caloric meal if I skip the breads. It's the same amount of calories, but I just choose to split an order of fried green tomatoes with someone instead of eating a roll or cornbread. Nachos or a margarita ( if they are same calories). Nachos for the win!! But, I can eat sensibily and get my junk and unhealthy foods in as well. I just use moderation and plan for it. If I know I'm eating Mexican food Friday night, I eat very light lunch and breakfast that day, and I try to make a healthier choice eating that night.
I second that. Clearly common sense should play a part in the process of figuring out the whole "how/what should I eat to stay within my budget" process. Yes there are certainly a few threads in this forum where you'll see statements that imply that this is an easy process. But we all know it's not. If it was, this website, and many others, would not exist. When I think of the bread that I used to eat, many years ago, sheesh...it's no wonder I gained nearly 60 pounds in that 5 years. It's a rare dinner that includes bread now, but back in the day I could wolf down 3 buttered rolls, easily, with my already-too-many-calories meal. That doesn't mean I never eat bread but it no longer occupies the same space in my diet. Neither do potato chips, chocolate, Kraft caramels (all things that I used to eat far too much of), etc. I can still enjoy treats, in moderation, but I can only do that by making better choices in my day.
This ... SO MUCH of this!!!!!!1 -
HeliumIsNoble wrote: »andrewq6100 wrote: »prattiger65 wrote: »andrewq6100 wrote: »just no twinkie diets please....
I used to be a guy that was "omg no junk (and let me rephrase JUNK for some people)) no high carb empty calorie foods like CANDY BARS GUMMY WORMS ICE CREAMS MCDONALDS once in a while or your diet is ruined" but I tried that and had what is called, for druggies..a RELAPSE...my body was at a point where it felt the need to GAIN the weight back I had lost so in turn I BINGED, because I cut out foods my body was USED to and ENJOYED. Now, even though it's in HEAVY moderation, I do enjoy those things but alas they are not a staple for my weight loss. I would never attribute my personal weight loss to the fact that "I can eat anything as long as i'm in a deficit" because for me that was simply not true. If I had eaten a sweet or candy or cake etc during my initial weight loss even IN a deficit it would for some reason turn on a switch and make me go even harder with the sweets junk etc and would essentially push me OVER my limit. Once I was able to master my mental practice of eating habits then I was able to fit in foods I enjoyed, but until then I had to enact discipline as many do to get it started.
Idc how many people say "well i didn't have to" thats fine because every human is different. But I know a lot of people i've worked with (and no i'm no where NEAR a PT or nutritionist) but they get the FASTEST results and most satisfactory results FROM eating "CLEAN AKA Not trying to worry if a candy bar cake mcdonalds will FIT in their macros". What I mean is that a lot of people doing weight loss PREFER to cut the junk out not because its BAD for them but because its just not needed for their specific goals.
Sure a treat is nice every once in a while but if Person A) want's to get shredded for a competition in 12 weeks and has never done anything in his life remotely close to this, then most likely he is NOT going to want to have anything to do with sweets and mcdonalds because it might SABATOGE his process. I'm not saying it WILL i'm saying from a mental standpoint it could. Again every person is different but I will always point back to this; flexibile dieting is KEY but eating like POOP is not. You can be in a deficit all you want while eating cakes if that's what your into, but some people, like me, prefer to just cut it out because to us, calories in vs calories out counts for a lot more than just a number and a food type.
Sorry, but this is full of nope. Common MFP fallacy, "everyone is different". Nope, everyone must abide by the laws of physics. You will lose weight in a calorie deficit no matter what you eat. My experience here on MFP for the last three years is exactly opposite of what you say, many many more people succeed by NOT restricting as opposed to those who cut out foods or food groups. It's at least 10-1, probably higher. There are so many straw men in this post it needs a warning label as a fire hazard.
Well as far as everyone is different..we are, physiologically yes, and as well as goal specific yes. You cannot be a 10% shredded athlete while trying to fit mcdonalds into your micro/macro plan every day. Maybe once or twice a week. As for the every day MFP FAM weight loss person then of course "calorie deficit, calories in calories out" is fine and dandy but for the small percentage of us on MFP who want to achieve that greater body composition and i'm sure there are more out there "in the bushes" and also maintain a cool 7-10% yr round, and even some who may be beginning competition prep, they and neither would their coach, recommend indulging in poop foods more often than not. If it is such a falsity than why do pro coaches exist, why is there such thing as "competition prep" and how do figure and bodybuilder pros continue to look like they do while only eating what they do? Or do they really just stuff their face constantly with junk behind the scenes and we don't see it? I'm not saying restricting or CUTTING foods for the every day joe and dane, but if your goal is THIS or THAT you eventually have to sacrifice THIS or THAT, its the law of success.. With every success comes failure, and a sacrifice and if you don't know that well then you haven't succeeded.
Chad Johnson/Ochocinco laughs at this. He ate McDonald's on the way to practice every day. True, I don't know his actual BF%, but c'mon, man.
Yeah. I could see that. They do salad.
LOL.
Yeah, but he was eating the sandwiches. I wish I could remember where I saw it - I think it was probably one of the Sunday pre-game shows back around 2000 or so, when he was with the Bengals. They spent a day with him and were surprised when he went to the drive-thru. I want to say he was eating 2 McChickens, but it was probably Egg McMuffins. I don't remember the exact sandwich(es) he said he ate every day.0 -
I can tell you that before finding My Fitness Pal I was a wreck. Yes I was skinny and looked good, but I was always tired and crabby and would only eat "clean" foods. This eventually lead to an on and off binge eating cycle because I was depriving myself of so many foods I wanted. Coming here I found that I can eat back my exercise calories and actually not gain weight and in turn I have more energy. It was hard, but I adopted the whole calories in calories out and started to incorporate things I craved into my daily calorie allowance and surprise nothing changed body wise and my desire to binge diminished. I cant tell you how much happier I am to know that I can go to the store and pick out whatever I want to eat. I no longer get anxious over eating out because I know a calorie is just a calorie and just because it is pizza or a hamburger does not mean it will make me gain weight....moderation is key. I still love eating healthy foods, loads of veggies/fish/avocados/oatmeal, etc. because I really enjoy them, but if I want a pack of m&ms for a snack instead of a protein bar I no longer feel guilt over it.16
-
-
WinoGelato wrote: »andrewq6100 wrote: »prattiger65 wrote: »andrewq6100 wrote: »just no twinkie diets please....
I used to be a guy that was "omg no junk (and let me rephrase JUNK for some people)) no high carb empty calorie foods like CANDY BARS GUMMY WORMS ICE CREAMS MCDONALDS once in a while or your diet is ruined" but I tried that and had what is called, for druggies..a RELAPSE...my body was at a point where it felt the need to GAIN the weight back I had lost so in turn I BINGED, because I cut out foods my body was USED to and ENJOYED. Now, even though it's in HEAVY moderation, I do enjoy those things but alas they are not a staple for my weight loss. I would never attribute my personal weight loss to the fact that "I can eat anything as long as i'm in a deficit" because for me that was simply not true. If I had eaten a sweet or candy or cake etc during my initial weight loss even IN a deficit it would for some reason turn on a switch and make me go even harder with the sweets junk etc and would essentially push me OVER my limit. Once I was able to master my mental practice of eating habits then I was able to fit in foods I enjoyed, but until then I had to enact discipline as many do to get it started.
Idc how many people say "well i didn't have to" thats fine because every human is different. But I know a lot of people i've worked with (and no i'm no where NEAR a PT or nutritionist) but they get the FASTEST results and most satisfactory results FROM eating "CLEAN AKA Not trying to worry if a candy bar cake mcdonalds will FIT in their macros". What I mean is that a lot of people doing weight loss PREFER to cut the junk out not because its BAD for them but because its just not needed for their specific goals.
Sure a treat is nice every once in a while but if Person A) want's to get shredded for a competition in 12 weeks and has never done anything in his life remotely close to this, then most likely he is NOT going to want to have anything to do with sweets and mcdonalds because it might SABATOGE his process. I'm not saying it WILL i'm saying from a mental standpoint it could. Again every person is different but I will always point back to this; flexibile dieting is KEY but eating like POOP is not. You can be in a deficit all you want while eating cakes if that's what your into, but some people, like me, prefer to just cut it out because to us, calories in vs calories out counts for a lot more than just a number and a food type.
Sorry, but this is full of nope. Common MFP fallacy, "everyone is different". Nope, everyone must abide by the laws of physics. You will lose weight in a calorie deficit no matter what you eat. My experience here on MFP for the last three years is exactly opposite of what you say, many many more people succeed by NOT restricting as opposed to those who cut out foods or food groups. It's at least 10-1, probably higher. There are so many straw men in this post it needs a warning label as a fire hazard.
Well as far as everyone is different..we are, physiologically yes, and as well as goal specific yes. You cannot be a 10% shredded athlete while trying to fit mcdonalds into your micro/macro plan every day. Maybe once or twice a week. As for the every day MFP FAM weight loss person then of course "calorie deficit, calories in calories out" is fine and dandy but for the small percentage of us on MFP who want to achieve that greater body composition and i'm sure there are more out there "in the bushes" and also maintain a cool 7-10% yr round, and even some who may be beginning competition prep, they and neither would their coach, recommend indulging in poop foods more often than not. If it is such a falsity than why do pro coaches exist, why is there such thing as "competition prep" and how do figure and bodybuilder pros continue to look like they do while only eating what they do? Or do they really just stuff their face constantly with junk behind the scenes and we don't see it? I'm not saying restricting or CUTTING foods for the every day joe and dane, but if your goal is THIS or THAT you eventually have to sacrifice THIS or THAT, its the law of success.. With every success comes failure, and a sacrifice and if you don't know that well then you haven't succeeded.
The OP was talking about obese individuals, concerned that the advice would not address their hunger issues. Also, the vast majority of users on these boards are not training for competition. Are there some elite athletes here, who need to dial in their diet and exercise in order to achieve optimal results? Absolutely. But those people are not looking for advice from the MFP community at large and not going to be confused by advice to "eat what you want within a calorie deficit" and think that invalidates all of the things they've learned through their years of focus and training.
But you can get to 6% eating McDonalds 5 times per week. Ask me how I know...27 -
WinoGelato wrote: »andrewq6100 wrote: »prattiger65 wrote: »andrewq6100 wrote: »just no twinkie diets please....
I used to be a guy that was "omg no junk (and let me rephrase JUNK for some people)) no high carb empty calorie foods like CANDY BARS GUMMY WORMS ICE CREAMS MCDONALDS once in a while or your diet is ruined" but I tried that and had what is called, for druggies..a RELAPSE...my body was at a point where it felt the need to GAIN the weight back I had lost so in turn I BINGED, because I cut out foods my body was USED to and ENJOYED. Now, even though it's in HEAVY moderation, I do enjoy those things but alas they are not a staple for my weight loss. I would never attribute my personal weight loss to the fact that "I can eat anything as long as i'm in a deficit" because for me that was simply not true. If I had eaten a sweet or candy or cake etc during my initial weight loss even IN a deficit it would for some reason turn on a switch and make me go even harder with the sweets junk etc and would essentially push me OVER my limit. Once I was able to master my mental practice of eating habits then I was able to fit in foods I enjoyed, but until then I had to enact discipline as many do to get it started.
Idc how many people say "well i didn't have to" thats fine because every human is different. But I know a lot of people i've worked with (and no i'm no where NEAR a PT or nutritionist) but they get the FASTEST results and most satisfactory results FROM eating "CLEAN AKA Not trying to worry if a candy bar cake mcdonalds will FIT in their macros". What I mean is that a lot of people doing weight loss PREFER to cut the junk out not because its BAD for them but because its just not needed for their specific goals.
Sure a treat is nice every once in a while but if Person A) want's to get shredded for a competition in 12 weeks and has never done anything in his life remotely close to this, then most likely he is NOT going to want to have anything to do with sweets and mcdonalds because it might SABATOGE his process. I'm not saying it WILL i'm saying from a mental standpoint it could. Again every person is different but I will always point back to this; flexibile dieting is KEY but eating like POOP is not. You can be in a deficit all you want while eating cakes if that's what your into, but some people, like me, prefer to just cut it out because to us, calories in vs calories out counts for a lot more than just a number and a food type.
Sorry, but this is full of nope. Common MFP fallacy, "everyone is different". Nope, everyone must abide by the laws of physics. You will lose weight in a calorie deficit no matter what you eat. My experience here on MFP for the last three years is exactly opposite of what you say, many many more people succeed by NOT restricting as opposed to those who cut out foods or food groups. It's at least 10-1, probably higher. There are so many straw men in this post it needs a warning label as a fire hazard.
Well as far as everyone is different..we are, physiologically yes, and as well as goal specific yes. You cannot be a 10% shredded athlete while trying to fit mcdonalds into your micro/macro plan every day. Maybe once or twice a week. As for the every day MFP FAM weight loss person then of course "calorie deficit, calories in calories out" is fine and dandy but for the small percentage of us on MFP who want to achieve that greater body composition and i'm sure there are more out there "in the bushes" and also maintain a cool 7-10% yr round, and even some who may be beginning competition prep, they and neither would their coach, recommend indulging in poop foods more often than not. If it is such a falsity than why do pro coaches exist, why is there such thing as "competition prep" and how do figure and bodybuilder pros continue to look like they do while only eating what they do? Or do they really just stuff their face constantly with junk behind the scenes and we don't see it? I'm not saying restricting or CUTTING foods for the every day joe and dane, but if your goal is THIS or THAT you eventually have to sacrifice THIS or THAT, its the law of success.. With every success comes failure, and a sacrifice and if you don't know that well then you haven't succeeded.
The OP was talking about obese individuals, concerned that the advice would not address their hunger issues. Also, the vast majority of users on these boards are not training for competition. Are there some elite athletes here, who need to dial in their diet and exercise in order to achieve optimal results? Absolutely. But those people are not looking for advice from the MFP community at large and not going to be confused by advice to "eat what you want within a calorie deficit" and think that invalidates all of the things they've learned through their years of focus and training.
But you can get to 6% eating McDonalds 5 times per week. Ask me how I know...
Yes, need to know :drinker:5 -
@3rdof7sisters and @WinoGelato.
Yeah, the eating less calories to lose weight thing. The original post in this thread and my comment you're both responding to actually doesn't refute that fact or diminish it.
OPs point was simple in his original post, if strongly and controversially worded. He doesn't want to eat one fried chicken wing, a single biscuit, and a Pepsi at Popeye's (I'm paraphrasing). It doesn't satisfy, it temps, it teases, it sets obsession thoughts in motion and ultimately, it derails. Yes. Some people are like that. I know it's shocking, wrong and silly.
Yes, yes, we know. There's hundreds if not thousands of success stories here at MFP with the same testimony. 'I ate a half cup of Ben and Jerry's ice cream every day while losing weight and look at me now! This is the way it's done. If you don't do this you'll binge on ice cream later." "Life isn't worth living without a Snickers every now and then. Eat one once in a while or you're doing it wrong and you'll put all the weight back on later." "Don't be a fool. Eat barbequed pork ribs, corn on the cob, and deep fried onion rings and don't skip dessert. Just make it fit or you're a dumbasss."
But that approach doesn't work for everyone. I know, I know. They're just not trying hard enough, they're wrong, they're destined for failure and someday, if they pay attention to the most prolific posters on MFP they'll finally get it.
I go to live meetings full of people who have successfully kept off 100+ pounds eliminating tempting foods and never picking up again. Yeah. They're out there. And they're here, at MFP whispering quietly in the bushes, running from the spotlight, and chatting in countercultural groups of likeminded weirdos.
Because if they ever described their method of success, by reducing caloric intake by ELIMINATING CERTAIN FOODS INDEFINATELY they'll get piled on like this OP did.
best post here!3 -
prattiger65 wrote: »I'm relatively new. The over all consensus that I have gathered from reading many posts (maybe I spend to much time here) is calorie in, calorie out, eat what you want within moderation, be realistic and learn what works for you along the way. Don't deprive yourself of junk just limit it and practise control and educate yourself on how to make these foods fit into your deficit. I have taken this on board and have reached my first weight loss goal in 6 weeks.
You are doing it right! And the more you learn, the better your diet will get and the better choices you will make. If the posters who are being so obtuse actually saw what most of us really eat they would probably shut up. Over time you learn more and your habits change, slowly but surely. The subject has been studied ad nauseum and the highest success rates come from NOT restricting foods or food groups. Do people have success other wise? Of course, but statistically it's far less.
Which statistics?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4005268/
Here is one. But by all means, lets get bogged down in a show me your studies of what pretty much everyone here already knows. That restrictive diets are less likely to work. I am sure you will pick stuff out and say it doesn't say that, Ill counter that it does and give another example, you will poo poo it and Ill counter your poo poo. You will feel better about yourself though, and thats what really matters.3 -
prattiger65 wrote: »prattiger65 wrote: »I'm relatively new. The over all consensus that I have gathered from reading many posts (maybe I spend to much time here) is calorie in, calorie out, eat what you want within moderation, be realistic and learn what works for you along the way. Don't deprive yourself of junk just limit it and practise control and educate yourself on how to make these foods fit into your deficit. I have taken this on board and have reached my first weight loss goal in 6 weeks.
You are doing it right! And the more you learn, the better your diet will get and the better choices you will make. If the posters who are being so obtuse actually saw what most of us really eat they would probably shut up. Over time you learn more and your habits change, slowly but surely. The subject has been studied ad nauseum and the highest success rates come from NOT restricting foods or food groups. Do people have success other wise? Of course, but statistically it's far less.
Which statistics?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4005268/
Here is one. But by all means, lets get bogged down in a show me your studies of what pretty much everyone here already knows. That restrictive diets are less likely to work. I am sure you will pick stuff out and say it doesn't say that, Ill counter that it does and give another example, you will poo poo it and Ill counter your poo poo. You will feel better about yourself though, and thats what really matters.
I feel fine already
1
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BKVegPy2p8c
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