"You can eat whaver you want, as long as you eat at a deficit" is true, but it's garbage advice.
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@3rdof7sisters and @WinoGelato.
Yeah, the eating less calories to lose weight thing. The original post in this thread and my comment you're both responding to actually doesn't refute that fact or diminish it.
OPs point was simple in his original post, if strongly and controversially worded. He doesn't want to eat one fried chicken wing, a single biscuit, and a Pepsi at Popeye's (I'm paraphrasing). It doesn't satisfy, it temps, it teases, it sets obsession thoughts in motion and ultimately, it derails. Yes. Some people are get like that. I know it's shocking, wrong and silly.
Yes, yes, we know. There's hundreds if not thousands of success stories here at MFP with the same testimony. 'I ate a half cup of Ben and Jerry's ice cream every day while losing weight and look at me now! This is the way it's done. If you don't do this you'll binge on ice cream later." "Life isn't worth living without a Snickers every now and then. Eat one once in a while or you're doing it wrong and you'll put all the weight back on later." "Don't be a fool. Eat barbequed pork ribs, corn on the cob, and deep fried onion rings and don't skip dessert. Just make it fit or you're a dumbasss."
But that approach doesn't work for everyone. I know, I know. They're just not trying hard enough, they're wrong, they're destined for failure and someday, if they pay attention to the most prolific posters on MFP they'll finally get it.
I go to live meetings full of people who have successfully kept off 100+ pounds eliminating tempting foods and never picking up again. Yeah. They're out there. And they're here, at MFP whispering quietly in the bushes, running from the spotlight, and chatting in countercultural groups of likeminded weirdos.
Because if they ever described their method of success, by reducing caloric intake by ELIMINATING CERTAIN FOODS INDEFINATELY they'll get piled on like this OP did.
I actually thought your response to @Duchy82, which I was quoting and responding to, was related to the poster, @elisa123gal ,who said that CICO is bunk. That poster further went on and said that the quality of food can influence the speed of weight loss, suggesting that the type of foods we eat invalidate the CICO model.
This is why I was stating that regardless of the types of foods a person eats, or a particular way of eating that they engage in, CICO is ever present and governing in the energy balance and what ultimately dictates whether a person loses weight.
This particular point didn't have much to do with the OP, but rather a subsequent response in the thread.4 -
Why is pizza always automatically the boogeyman that makes you fat, and shorthand for "food that no-one can fit into their macros", anyway? At its simplest, it's bread dough, tomato sauce and a cheese topping. Sure, you can put a mountain of other stuff on, and eat ten slices, but you don't have to. It's not actually the Devil's food. That, my friend, would be the deep fried Mars bar.
This supermarket pizza claims to serve 4 people at 256 calories per serving, so realistically, that's half a pizza for two people at 512 calories each. With some sort of vegetation served alongside it, that's a reasonable meal.15 -
elisa123gal wrote: »I agree with you original poster. Those CICO people are full of bunk. The quality of what you eat nutritionally can speed up and cause you to lose weight. Eating junk food and processed foods at a deficit doesn't work for me at all. Eating at a deficit is unnatural for the body... and it is tricky to do it long term. You need to maximize the food you eat and be strategic so you don't get hungry go off and binge.
You are right.. garbage talk!
If CICO is bunk and eating at a deficit is unnatural then why are you using a website that is designed for people to use said method to lose weight. Just curious....
There's room on this website for all kinds. Keto, vegan, low carb, clean eaters, pre and post bariatric surgery recipients, various forms of intermittent fasting, vegetarian, paleo, primal, gluten free, meal replacement shakes, etc.
Eat-anything-you-want-in-moderation-while-simply-staying-in-a-deficit may be the main narrative at MFP but it isn't the only one.
The huge variety of threads and most notably, the groups that are started by MFP members, reflect that.
But all those methods for weightloss involve a calorie deficit. I am not saying there aren't different ways to achieve a deficit and each to their own and are welcome. But she said that calories in vs calories out is bunk and eating at a deficit is unnatural mfp generally is for counting calories so I wondered why, if she doesn't believe counting calories works, she is using mfp. It's a genuine question.1 -
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3rdof7sisters wrote: »@3rdof7sisters and @WinoGelato.
Yeah, the eating less calories to lose weight thing. The original post in this thread and my comment you're both responding to actually doesn't refute that fact or diminish it.
OPs point was simple in his original post, if strongly and controversially worded. He doesn't want to eat one fried chicken wing, a single biscuit, and a Pepsi at Popeye's (I'm paraphrasing). It doesn't satisfy, it temps, it teases, it sets obsession thoughts in motion and ultimately, it derails. Yes. Some people are like that. I know it's shocking, wrong and silly.
Yes, yes, we know. There's hundreds if not thousands of success stories here at MFP with the same testimony. 'I ate a half cup of Ben and Jerry's ice cream every day while losing weight and look at me now! This is the way it's done. If you don't do this you'll binge on ice cream later." "Life isn't worth living without a Snickers every now and then. Eat one once in a while or you're doing it wrong and you'll put all the weight back on later." "Don't be a fool. Eat barbequed pork ribs, corn on the cob, and deep fried onion rings and don't skip dessert. Just make it fit or you're a dumbasss."
But that approach doesn't work for everyone. I know, I know. They're just not trying hard enough, they're wrong, they're destined for failure and someday, if they pay attention to the most prolific posters on MFP they'll finally get it.
I go to live meetings full of people who have successfully kept off 100+ pounds eliminating tempting foods and never picking up again. Yeah. They're out there. And they're here, at MFP whispering quietly in the bushes, running from the spotlight, and chatting in countercultural groups of likeminded weirdos.
Because if they ever described their method of success, by reducing caloric intake by ELIMINATING CERTAIN FOODS INDEFINATELY they'll get piled on like this OP did.
And all I am saying is that IT ISN'T THE SAME FOR EVERYONE.
And it isn't "garbage advice, which the OP is claiming.
It is garbage advice for the people it doesn't work for. I don't eat candy bars and ice cream and batter fried shrimp in moderation. Telling me to make them fit my macros is garbage advice for me. I throw that advice in the metaphorical garbage. Apparently OP does too and the many people who liked and awesomed his original post.
Funny how touchy people are about the wording, since many who take issue with it have seemingly solved their overweight problem already.
I don't know exactly what nerves are being touched here or if it's just a keyboard warrior thing. But I know what doesn't work for me, OP knows what doesn't work for him and we're definitely not alone in this.
Again, I think we are getting mixed up here. As I stated above, we were responding to a poster who said CICO is bunk, NOT the OP. You quoted that post and said there are a number of ways a person can be successful, and both @Duchy82 and I agree with you, but want to reinforce (not necessarily to you but to @elisa123gal ) that regardless of the method - CICO is not bunk, it is the fundamental energy balance that drives ALL weight loss.
Again. This is not about the OP and what works for him and what he believes to be "garbage advice".10 -
WinoGelato wrote: »@3rdof7sisters and @WinoGelato.
Yeah, the eating less calories to lose weight thing. The original post in this thread and my comment you're both responding to actually doesn't refute that fact or diminish it.
OPs point was simple in his original post, if strongly and controversially worded. He doesn't want to eat one fried chicken wing, a single biscuit, and a Pepsi at Popeye's (I'm paraphrasing). It doesn't satisfy, it temps, it teases, it sets obsession thoughts in motion and ultimately, it derails. Yes. Some people are get like that. I know it's shocking, wrong and silly.
Yes, yes, we know. There's hundreds if not thousands of success stories here at MFP with the same testimony. 'I ate a half cup of Ben and Jerry's ice cream every day while losing weight and look at me now! This is the way it's done. If you don't do this you'll binge on ice cream later." "Life isn't worth living without a Snickers every now and then. Eat one once in a while or you're doing it wrong and you'll put all the weight back on later." "Don't be a fool. Eat barbequed pork ribs, corn on the cob, and deep fried onion rings and don't skip dessert. Just make it fit or you're a dumbasss."
But that approach doesn't work for everyone. I know, I know. They're just not trying hard enough, they're wrong, they're destined for failure and someday, if they pay attention to the most prolific posters on MFP they'll finally get it.
I go to live meetings full of people who have successfully kept off 100+ pounds eliminating tempting foods and never picking up again. Yeah. They're out there. And they're here, at MFP whispering quietly in the bushes, running from the spotlight, and chatting in countercultural groups of likeminded weirdos.
Because if they ever described their method of success, by reducing caloric intake by ELIMINATING CERTAIN FOODS INDEFINATELY they'll get piled on like this OP did.
I actually thought your response to @Duchy82, which I was quoting and responding to, was related to the poster, @elisa123gal ,who said that CICO is bunk. That poster further went on and said that the quality of food can influence the speed of weight loss, suggesting that the type of foods we eat invalidate the CICO model.
This is why I was stating that regardless of the types of foods a person eats, or a particular way of eating that they engage in, CICO is ever present and governing in the energy balance and what ultimately dictates whether a person loses weight.
This particular point didn't have much to do with the OP, but rather a subsequent response in the thread.
EXACTLY!0 -
Really? I have success rates with ALL my clients and I don't preach eating "clean" at all. In fact, I do tell them to eat whatever they like AS LONG AS they don't exceed the calorie intake set for them. Do you know why people fail at diets? Because they usually are restricted from eating things they actually like. If one LEARNS how to control how much of something like eat, then the chances are higher that they will adhere to that habitual behavior.People don't want to eat 1 slice of pizza, or a 1/4 of a plate of Loco Rice, or 7 chili cheese fries. They want to have a meal. If you eat the "right amount" of junk food to stay within your calorie limits, you're going to be starving to death and it's going to cause you to eat more. Eating food that doesn't taste as good as what you want is much better than satisfying a craving and then derailing later because you were so hungry you caved. There are a few people around here who have done their time, lost their weight, and they are in good shape. These people give advice from the "look at me, I lost a ton of weight so I know what I'm doing" stand point, but seem to have forgotten what it was like to ACTUALLY live as a fat person. So when someone tells you you can have junk food, don't listen to them, not because they are lying to you - they aren't, it's true - but because the advice isn't helpful in practice.
Sorry if you can't do it, but that's an issue you deal with that you have to fix. Unless you have some actual peer reviewed clinical study that one CAN'T be taught moderation, you're just opining what you believe.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
To me this is extremely concerning coming from a 'so-called' Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer. You should be socially responsible and teach your client to aim to eat clean at least 70% of the time. It seems like anyone can become a Certified Trainer these days and most of them are completely out of shape. Where exactly did this notion of eating whatever you want whenever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals come from? You are being lied to and thank you to the original poster for starting this discussion.4 -
WinoGelato wrote: »3rdof7sisters wrote: »@3rdof7sisters and @WinoGelato.
Yeah, the eating less calories to lose weight thing. The original post in this thread and my comment you're both responding to actually doesn't refute that fact or diminish it.
OPs point was simple in his original post, if strongly and controversially worded. He doesn't want to eat one fried chicken wing, a single biscuit, and a Pepsi at Popeye's (I'm paraphrasing). It doesn't satisfy, it temps, it teases, it sets obsession thoughts in motion and ultimately, it derails. Yes. Some people are like that. I know it's shocking, wrong and silly.
Yes, yes, we know. There's hundreds if not thousands of success stories here at MFP with the same testimony. 'I ate a half cup of Ben and Jerry's ice cream every day while losing weight and look at me now! This is the way it's done. If you don't do this you'll binge on ice cream later." "Life isn't worth living without a Snickers every now and then. Eat one once in a while or you're doing it wrong and you'll put all the weight back on later." "Don't be a fool. Eat barbequed pork ribs, corn on the cob, and deep fried onion rings and don't skip dessert. Just make it fit or you're a dumbasss."
But that approach doesn't work for everyone. I know, I know. They're just not trying hard enough, they're wrong, they're destined for failure and someday, if they pay attention to the most prolific posters on MFP they'll finally get it.
I go to live meetings full of people who have successfully kept off 100+ pounds eliminating tempting foods and never picking up again. Yeah. They're out there. And they're here, at MFP whispering quietly in the bushes, running from the spotlight, and chatting in countercultural groups of likeminded weirdos.
Because if they ever described their method of success, by reducing caloric intake by ELIMINATING CERTAIN FOODS INDEFINATELY they'll get piled on like this OP did.
And all I am saying is that IT ISN'T THE SAME FOR EVERYONE.
And it isn't "garbage advice, which the OP is claiming.
It is garbage advice for the people it doesn't work for. I don't eat candy bars and ice cream and batter fried shrimp in moderation. Telling me to make them fit my macros is garbage advice for me. I throw that advice in the metaphorical garbage. Apparently OP does too and the many people who liked and awesomed his original post.
Funny how touchy people are about the wording, since many who take issue with it have seemingly solved their overweight problem already.
I don't know exactly what nerves are being touched here or if it's just a keyboard warrior thing. But I know what doesn't work for me, OP knows what doesn't work for him and we're definitely not alone in this.
Again, I think we are getting mixed up here. As I stated above, we were responding to a poster who said CICO is bunk, NOT the OP. You quoted that post and said there are a number of ways a person can be successful, and both @Duchy82 and I agree with you, but want to reinforce (not necessarily to you but to @elisa123gal ) that regardless of the method - CICO is not bunk, it is the fundamental energy balance that drives ALL weight loss.
Again. This is not about the OP and what works for him and what he believes to be "garbage advice".
Agreed @WinoGelato2 -
WinoGelato wrote: »3rdof7sisters wrote: »@3rdof7sisters and @WinoGelato.
Yeah, the eating less calories to lose weight thing. The original post in this thread and my comment you're both responding to actually doesn't refute that fact or diminish it.
OPs point was simple in his original post, if strongly and controversially worded. He doesn't want to eat one fried chicken wing, a single biscuit, and a Pepsi at Popeye's (I'm paraphrasing). It doesn't satisfy, it temps, it teases, it sets obsession thoughts in motion and ultimately, it derails. Yes. Some people are like that. I know it's shocking, wrong and silly.
Yes, yes, we know. There's hundreds if not thousands of success stories here at MFP with the same testimony. 'I ate a half cup of Ben and Jerry's ice cream every day while losing weight and look at me now! This is the way it's done. If you don't do this you'll binge on ice cream later." "Life isn't worth living without a Snickers every now and then. Eat one once in a while or you're doing it wrong and you'll put all the weight back on later." "Don't be a fool. Eat barbequed pork ribs, corn on the cob, and deep fried onion rings and don't skip dessert. Just make it fit or you're a dumbasss."
But that approach doesn't work for everyone. I know, I know. They're just not trying hard enough, they're wrong, they're destined for failure and someday, if they pay attention to the most prolific posters on MFP they'll finally get it.
I go to live meetings full of people who have successfully kept off 100+ pounds eliminating tempting foods and never picking up again. Yeah. They're out there. And they're here, at MFP whispering quietly in the bushes, running from the spotlight, and chatting in countercultural groups of likeminded weirdos.
Because if they ever described their method of success, by reducing caloric intake by ELIMINATING CERTAIN FOODS INDEFINATELY they'll get piled on like this OP did.
And all I am saying is that IT ISN'T THE SAME FOR EVERYONE.
And it isn't "garbage advice, which the OP is claiming.
It is garbage advice for the people it doesn't work for. I don't eat candy bars and ice cream and batter fried shrimp in moderation. Telling me to make them fit my macros is garbage advice for me. I throw that advice in the metaphorical garbage. Apparently OP does too and the many people who liked and awesomed his original post.
Funny how touchy people are about the wording, since many who take issue with it have seemingly solved their overweight problem already.
I don't know exactly what nerves are being touched here or if it's just a keyboard warrior thing. But I know what doesn't work for me, OP knows what doesn't work for him and we're definitely not alone in this.
Again, I think we are getting mixed up here. As I stated above, we were responding to a poster who said CICO is bunk, NOT the OP. You quoted that post and said there are a number of ways a person can be successful, and both @Duchy82 and I agree with you, but want to reinforce (not necessarily to you but to @elisa123gal ) that regardless of the method - CICO is not bunk, it is the fundamental energy balance that drives ALL weight loss.
Again. This is not about the OP and what works for him and what he believes to be "garbage advice".
I'm glad you're okay with what the OP said then. Maybe I think you're alright after all.
At this point I have to think that you aren't even reading what I am writing. I am trying to clarify that you are taking points made to a different poster, as directed at the OP, when they are not.
No, I am not ok with what the OP said, I do not think that "eat what you want within a calorie deficit" is garbage advice, for so many of the reasons listed on this thread.
But this particular discussion (if you can call it that) that you and I are engaging in, IS NOT ABOUT THE OP, or his view points.
But now I have to ask, do you believe that CICO is a fundamental energy balance and that regardless of whether you eat vegan, LCHF, paleo, keto, IIFYM, Twinkie Diet, etc - if you lose weight, then CICO is at work?
Or do you also think that CICO is bunk?8 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »
Really? I have success rates with ALL my clients and I don't preach eating "clean" at all. In fact, I do tell them to eat whatever they like AS LONG AS they don't exceed the calorie intake set for them. Do you know why people fail at diets? Because they usually are restricted from eating things they actually like. If one LEARNS how to control how much of something like eat, then the chances are higher that they will adhere to that habitual behavior.People don't want to eat 1 slice of pizza, or a 1/4 of a plate of Loco Rice, or 7 chili cheese fries. They want to have a meal. If you eat the "right amount" of junk food to stay within your calorie limits, you're going to be starving to death and it's going to cause you to eat more. Eating food that doesn't taste as good as what you want is much better than satisfying a craving and then derailing later because you were so hungry you caved. There are a few people around here who have done their time, lost their weight, and they are in good shape. These people give advice from the "look at me, I lost a ton of weight so I know what I'm doing" stand point, but seem to have forgotten what it was like to ACTUALLY live as a fat person. So when someone tells you you can have junk food, don't listen to them, not because they are lying to you - they aren't, it's true - but because the advice isn't helpful in practice.
Sorry if you can't do it, but that's an issue you deal with that you have to fix. Unless you have some actual peer reviewed clinical study that one CAN'T be taught moderation, you're just opining what you believe.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
To me this is extremely concerning coming from a 'so-called' Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer. You should be socially responsible and teach your client to aim to eat clean at least 70% of the time. It seems like anyone can become a Certified Trainer these days and most of them are completely out of shape. Where exactly did this notion of eating whatever you want whenever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals come from? You are being lied to and thank you to the original poster for starting this discussion.
Ah...the scientific standard of 70% has been applied...and the source of this woo is what?26 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »
Really? I have success rates with ALL my clients and I don't preach eating "clean" at all. In fact, I do tell them to eat whatever they like AS LONG AS they don't exceed the calorie intake set for them. Do you know why people fail at diets? Because they usually are restricted from eating things they actually like. If one LEARNS how to control how much of something like eat, then the chances are higher that they will adhere to that habitual behavior.People don't want to eat 1 slice of pizza, or a 1/4 of a plate of Loco Rice, or 7 chili cheese fries. They want to have a meal. If you eat the "right amount" of junk food to stay within your calorie limits, you're going to be starving to death and it's going to cause you to eat more. Eating food that doesn't taste as good as what you want is much better than satisfying a craving and then derailing later because you were so hungry you caved. There are a few people around here who have done their time, lost their weight, and they are in good shape. These people give advice from the "look at me, I lost a ton of weight so I know what I'm doing" stand point, but seem to have forgotten what it was like to ACTUALLY live as a fat person. So when someone tells you you can have junk food, don't listen to them, not because they are lying to you - they aren't, it's true - but because the advice isn't helpful in practice.
Sorry if you can't do it, but that's an issue you deal with that you have to fix. Unless you have some actual peer reviewed clinical study that one CAN'T be taught moderation, you're just opining what you believe.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
To me this is extremely concerning coming from a 'so-called' Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer. You should be socially responsible and teach your client to aim to eat clean at least 70% of the time. It seems like anyone can become a Certified Trainer these days and most of them are completely out of shape. Where exactly did this notion of eating whatever you want whenever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals come from? You are being lied to and thank you to the original poster for starting this discussion.
Who is being lied to?
What is your definition of "eating clean"?
Did you read the entire thread, where people stated repeatedly that the phrase "eat what you want if it fits in your calories" is not synonymous with "eat a diet of nothing but junk food"?17 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »
Really? I have success rates with ALL my clients and I don't preach eating "clean" at all. In fact, I do tell them to eat whatever they like AS LONG AS they don't exceed the calorie intake set for them. Do you know why people fail at diets? Because they usually are restricted from eating things they actually like. If one LEARNS how to control how much of something like eat, then the chances are higher that they will adhere to that habitual behavior.People don't want to eat 1 slice of pizza, or a 1/4 of a plate of Loco Rice, or 7 chili cheese fries. They want to have a meal. If you eat the "right amount" of junk food to stay within your calorie limits, you're going to be starving to death and it's going to cause you to eat more. Eating food that doesn't taste as good as what you want is much better than satisfying a craving and then derailing later because you were so hungry you caved. There are a few people around here who have done their time, lost their weight, and they are in good shape. These people give advice from the "look at me, I lost a ton of weight so I know what I'm doing" stand point, but seem to have forgotten what it was like to ACTUALLY live as a fat person. So when someone tells you you can have junk food, don't listen to them, not because they are lying to you - they aren't, it's true - but because the advice isn't helpful in practice.
Sorry if you can't do it, but that's an issue you deal with that you have to fix. Unless you have some actual peer reviewed clinical study that one CAN'T be taught moderation, you're just opining what you believe.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
To me this is extremely concerning coming from a 'so-called' Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer. You should be socially responsible and teach your client to aim to eat clean at least 70% of the time. It seems like anyone can become a Certified Trainer these days and most of them are completely out of shape. Where exactly did this notion of eating whatever you want whenever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals come from? You are being lied to and thank you to the original poster for starting this discussion.
What is the source for the 70% "clean" goal? It seems like a goal pulled out of nowhere . . .13 -
3rdof7sisters wrote: »@3rdof7sisters and @WinoGelato.
Yeah, the eating less calories to lose weight thing. The original post in this thread and my comment you're both responding to actually doesn't refute that fact or diminish it.
OPs point was simple in his original post, if strongly and controversially worded. He doesn't want to eat one fried chicken wing, a single biscuit, and a Pepsi at Popeye's (I'm paraphrasing). It doesn't satisfy, it temps, it teases, it sets obsession thoughts in motion and ultimately, it derails. Yes. Some people are like that. I know it's shocking, wrong and silly.
Yes, yes, we know. There's hundreds if not thousands of success stories here at MFP with the same testimony. 'I ate a half cup of Ben and Jerry's ice cream every day while losing weight and look at me now! This is the way it's done. If you don't do this you'll binge on ice cream later." "Life isn't worth living without a Snickers every now and then. Eat one once in a while or you're doing it wrong and you'll put all the weight back on later." "Don't be a fool. Eat barbequed pork ribs, corn on the cob, and deep fried onion rings and don't skip dessert. Just make it fit or you're a dumbasss."
But that approach doesn't work for everyone. I know, I know. They're just not trying hard enough, they're wrong, they're destined for failure and someday, if they pay attention to the most prolific posters on MFP they'll finally get it.
I go to live meetings full of people who have successfully kept off 100+ pounds eliminating tempting foods and never picking up again. Yeah. They're out there. And they're here, at MFP whispering quietly in the bushes, running from the spotlight, and chatting in countercultural groups of likeminded weirdos.
Because if they ever described their method of success, by reducing caloric intake by ELIMINATING CERTAIN FOODS INDEFINATELY they'll get piled on like this OP did.
And all I am saying is that IT ISN'T THE SAME FOR EVERYONE.
And it isn't "garbage advice, which the OP is claiming.
It is garbage advice for the people it doesn't work for. I don't eat candy bars and ice cream and batter fried shrimp in moderation.
(1) Eating those things in moderation does not necessarily mean a small amount often. It could mean -- as with me and Indian food -- less often, but lots when I do.
(2) If you don't want to eat something, no one is telling you to eat it. I don't eat bread much. I don't eat cake or donuts much. Why? They aren't worth the calories to me. I don't imagine that when someone says to eat what I want in moderation they are telling me to eat those foods. Why would you?Telling me to make them fit my macros is garbage advice for me.
And I never would, just like someone telling me to eat something I don't want to eat would be dumb advice for me. I think you are misinterpreting what people are saying. If it's easier to eat in a certain way, great.
OP did not seem to me to be saying that or to be limiting his advice/comments to himself. He was making claims about what PEOPLE in general want or like, and those claims had no relationship at all to what I want or like and seemed based on rather annoying stereotypes both about fat people and how they eat and also that "eating what you want in your calories" means don't concern yourself with nutrition or satiety.10 -
WinoGelato wrote: »3rdof7sisters wrote: »@3rdof7sisters and @WinoGelato.
Yeah, the eating less calories to lose weight thing. The original post in this thread and my comment you're both responding to actually doesn't refute that fact or diminish it.
OPs point was simple in his original post, if strongly and controversially worded. He doesn't want to eat one fried chicken wing, a single biscuit, and a Pepsi at Popeye's (I'm paraphrasing). It doesn't satisfy, it temps, it teases, it sets obsession thoughts in motion and ultimately, it derails. Yes. Some people are like that. I know it's shocking, wrong and silly.
Yes, yes, we know. There's hundreds if not thousands of success stories here at MFP with the same testimony. 'I ate a half cup of Ben and Jerry's ice cream every day while losing weight and look at me now! This is the way it's done. If you don't do this you'll binge on ice cream later." "Life isn't worth living without a Snickers every now and then. Eat one once in a while or you're doing it wrong and you'll put all the weight back on later." "Don't be a fool. Eat barbequed pork ribs, corn on the cob, and deep fried onion rings and don't skip dessert. Just make it fit or you're a dumbasss."
But that approach doesn't work for everyone. I know, I know. They're just not trying hard enough, they're wrong, they're destined for failure and someday, if they pay attention to the most prolific posters on MFP they'll finally get it.
I go to live meetings full of people who have successfully kept off 100+ pounds eliminating tempting foods and never picking up again. Yeah. They're out there. And they're here, at MFP whispering quietly in the bushes, running from the spotlight, and chatting in countercultural groups of likeminded weirdos.
Because if they ever described their method of success, by reducing caloric intake by ELIMINATING CERTAIN FOODS INDEFINATELY they'll get piled on like this OP did.
And all I am saying is that IT ISN'T THE SAME FOR EVERYONE.
And it isn't "garbage advice, which the OP is claiming.
It is garbage advice for the people it doesn't work for. I don't eat candy bars and ice cream and batter fried shrimp in moderation. Telling me to make them fit my macros is garbage advice for me. I throw that advice in the metaphorical garbage. Apparently OP does too and the many people who liked and awesomed his original post.
Funny how touchy people are about the wording, since many who take issue with it have seemingly solved their overweight problem already.
I don't know exactly what nerves are being touched here or if it's just a keyboard warrior thing. But I know what doesn't work for me, OP knows what doesn't work for him and we're definitely not alone in this.
Again, I think we are getting mixed up here. As I stated above, we were responding to a poster who said CICO is bunk, NOT the OP. You quoted that post and said there are a number of ways a person can be successful, and both @Duchy82 and I agree with you, but want to reinforce (not necessarily to you but to @elisa123gal ) that regardless of the method - CICO is not bunk, it is the fundamental energy balance that drives ALL weight loss.
Again. This is not about the OP and what works for him and what he believes to be "garbage advice".
I'm glad you're okay with what the OP said then. Maybe I think you're alright after all.
I wouldn't exactly say I'm ok with what the op said, I have already left an elaborate response on this earlier on so I won't repeat myself. But what works for me may not work for everyone, if you ask me what works for me I will tell you, you may not like the answer/ you may not agree with me and you know what that's fine by me. At the same time don't tell me I'm doing it wrong because being 31.5kg lighter proves I am.
At the end of the day each and everyone of us has to figure out how this weightloss journey will work for them. Us veterans can point you in a direction that may work but you're an adult and have to figure it out yourself.0 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »
Really? I have success rates with ALL my clients and I don't preach eating "clean" at all. In fact, I do tell them to eat whatever they like AS LONG AS they don't exceed the calorie intake set for them. Do you know why people fail at diets? Because they usually are restricted from eating things they actually like. If one LEARNS how to control how much of something like eat, then the chances are higher that they will adhere to that habitual behavior.People don't want to eat 1 slice of pizza, or a 1/4 of a plate of Loco Rice, or 7 chili cheese fries. They want to have a meal. If you eat the "right amount" of junk food to stay within your calorie limits, you're going to be starving to death and it's going to cause you to eat more. Eating food that doesn't taste as good as what you want is much better than satisfying a craving and then derailing later because you were so hungry you caved. There are a few people around here who have done their time, lost their weight, and they are in good shape. These people give advice from the "look at me, I lost a ton of weight so I know what I'm doing" stand point, but seem to have forgotten what it was like to ACTUALLY live as a fat person. So when someone tells you you can have junk food, don't listen to them, not because they are lying to you - they aren't, it's true - but because the advice isn't helpful in practice.
Sorry if you can't do it, but that's an issue you deal with that you have to fix. Unless you have some actual peer reviewed clinical study that one CAN'T be taught moderation, you're just opining what you believe.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
To me this is extremely concerning coming from a 'so-called' Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer. You should be socially responsible and teach your client to aim to eat clean at least 70% of the time. It seems like anyone can become a Certified Trainer these days and most of them are completely out of shape. Where exactly did this notion of eating whatever you want whenever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals come from? You are being lied to and thank you to the original poster for starting this discussion.
OK, I will bite: what am I supposed to eat 70% of the time and what do I get to eat 30% of the time?
Is that counted by meals? (Salad meal vs big Mac meal)?
Is it counted within meals? (Pizza and salad)?
Is it counted by days? (I ate clean today but not yestersay?)
do we count by volume or by calories?
Serious question.
A slice of pizza and a bowl of salad. Is that 70% clean by volume (cause lettuce) or is that 10% clean (cause pizza had more calories)?
Does 0% fat sucralose sweetened Yoplait count as clean? Is it cleaner than Halo top? Is Halo top cleaner than Haagen Daz?
What about organic pasture fed free range chickens?
Is wild caught Chilean sea bass clean? What about farmed rainbow trout?
Are Chilean grapes clean? What about Californian? Maroccan mandarin oranges? Giant carrots from China?29 -
@3rdof7sisters and @WinoGelato.
Yeah, the eating less calories to lose weight thing. The original post in this thread and my comment you're both responding to actually doesn't refute that fact or diminish it.
OPs point was simple in his original post, if strongly and controversially worded. He doesn't want to eat one fried chicken wing, a single biscuit, and a Pepsi at Popeye's (I'm paraphrasing). It doesn't satisfy, it temps, it teases, it sets obsession thoughts in motion and ultimately, it derails. Yes. Some people are like that. I know it's shocking, wrong and silly.
Yes, yes, we know. There's hundreds if not thousands of success stories here at MFP with the same testimony. 'I ate a half cup of Ben and Jerry's ice cream every day while losing weight and look at me now! This is the way it's done. If you don't do this you'll binge on ice cream later." "Life isn't worth living without a Snickers every now and then. Eat one once in a while or you're doing it wrong and you'll put all the weight back on later." "Don't be a fool. Eat barbequed pork ribs, corn on the cob, and deep fried onion rings and don't skip dessert. Just make it fit or you're a dumbasss."
But that approach doesn't work for everyone. I know, I know. They're just not trying hard enough, they're wrong, they're destined for failure and someday, if they pay attention to the most prolific posters on MFP they'll finally get it.
I go to live meetings full of people who have successfully kept off 100+ pounds eliminating tempting foods and never picking up again. Yeah. They're out there. And they're here, at MFP whispering quietly in the bushes, running from the spotlight, and chatting in countercultural groups of likeminded weirdos.
Because if they ever described their method of success, by reducing caloric intake by ELIMINATING CERTAIN FOODS INDEFINATELY they'll get piled on like this OP did.
Really love this.6 -
Huh. I usually hear 80% or 90% "clean" bandied about. That would seem to indicate that 70% would favor more "junk"/discretionary food than what is normally recommended.4
-
LowCarb4Me2016 wrote: »@3rdof7sisters and @WinoGelato.
Yeah, the eating less calories to lose weight thing. The original post in this thread and my comment you're both responding to actually doesn't refute that fact or diminish it.
OPs point was simple in his original post, if strongly and controversially worded. He doesn't want to eat one fried chicken wing, a single biscuit, and a Pepsi at Popeye's (I'm paraphrasing). It doesn't satisfy, it temps, it teases, it sets obsession thoughts in motion and ultimately, it derails. Yes. Some people are like that. I know it's shocking, wrong and silly.
Yes, yes, we know. There's hundreds if not thousands of success stories here at MFP with the same testimony. 'I ate a half cup of Ben and Jerry's ice cream every day while losing weight and look at me now! This is the way it's done. If you don't do this you'll binge on ice cream later." "Life isn't worth living without a Snickers every now and then. Eat one once in a while or you're doing it wrong and you'll put all the weight back on later." "Don't be a fool. Eat barbequed pork ribs, corn on the cob, and deep fried onion rings and don't skip dessert. Just make it fit or you're a dumbasss."
But that approach doesn't work for everyone. I know, I know. They're just not trying hard enough, they're wrong, they're destined for failure and someday, if they pay attention to the most prolific posters on MFP they'll finally get it.
I go to live meetings full of people who have successfully kept off 100+ pounds eliminating tempting foods and never picking up again. Yeah. They're out there. And they're here, at MFP whispering quietly in the bushes, running from the spotlight, and chatting in countercultural groups of likeminded weirdos.
Because if they ever described their method of success, by reducing caloric intake by ELIMINATING CERTAIN FOODS INDEFINATELY they'll get piled on like this OP did.
Really love this.
But it seems to be based in a fundamental misunderstanding of the OP. OP wasn't describing the method that worked for them personally, they were saying that people who had success with other methods were offering "garbage advice."
In reality, there are people who do really well while eliminating or heavily restricting certain foods. And there are other people who do really well without eliminating foods.
For me personally, the concept of "good" and "bad" foods sets me up for failure and it sets me up for binges. The "garbage advice" OP is complaining about is what finally enabled me to lose weight and keep it off relatively easily.
I have no problem with anyone who doesn't want to eat [x] ever again because they know it's the best way for them. But the reason threads like this tend to get out of control is because people assume that their path to success is the only path.13 -
janejellyroll wrote: »LowCarb4Me2016 wrote: »@3rdof7sisters and @WinoGelato.
Yeah, the eating less calories to lose weight thing. The original post in this thread and my comment you're both responding to actually doesn't refute that fact or diminish it.
OPs point was simple in his original post, if strongly and controversially worded. He doesn't want to eat one fried chicken wing, a single biscuit, and a Pepsi at Popeye's (I'm paraphrasing). It doesn't satisfy, it temps, it teases, it sets obsession thoughts in motion and ultimately, it derails. Yes. Some people are like that. I know it's shocking, wrong and silly.
Yes, yes, we know. There's hundreds if not thousands of success stories here at MFP with the same testimony. 'I ate a half cup of Ben and Jerry's ice cream every day while losing weight and look at me now! This is the way it's done. If you don't do this you'll binge on ice cream later." "Life isn't worth living without a Snickers every now and then. Eat one once in a while or you're doing it wrong and you'll put all the weight back on later." "Don't be a fool. Eat barbequed pork ribs, corn on the cob, and deep fried onion rings and don't skip dessert. Just make it fit or you're a dumbasss."
But that approach doesn't work for everyone. I know, I know. They're just not trying hard enough, they're wrong, they're destined for failure and someday, if they pay attention to the most prolific posters on MFP they'll finally get it.
I go to live meetings full of people who have successfully kept off 100+ pounds eliminating tempting foods and never picking up again. Yeah. They're out there. And they're here, at MFP whispering quietly in the bushes, running from the spotlight, and chatting in countercultural groups of likeminded weirdos.
Because if they ever described their method of success, by reducing caloric intake by ELIMINATING CERTAIN FOODS INDEFINATELY they'll get piled on like this OP did.
Really love this.
But it seems to be based in a fundamental misunderstanding of the OP. OP wasn't describing the method that worked for them personally, they were saying that people who had success with other methods were offering "garbage advice."
In reality, there are people who do really well while eliminating or heavily restricting certain foods. And there are other people who do really well without eliminating foods.
For me personally, the concept of "good" and "bad" foods sets me up for failure and it sets me up for binges. The "garbage advice" OP is complaining about is what finally enabled me to lose weight and keep it off relatively easily.
I have no problem with anyone who doesn't want to eat [x] ever again because they know it's the best way for them. But the reason threads like this tend to get out of control is because people assume that their path to success is the only path.
I read the OP as saying that people saying "CICO works for me, therefore it must work everyone" was the garbage advice.
2 -
But I really like wine. And I'm a lot more fun when I'm not hangry. And my lifestyle doesn't lend itself to eating clean 100% of the time. I'll do what works for me so I'm a relatively healthy, stable, happy person. That's not garbage advice, that's just smart.7
This discussion has been closed.
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