"You can eat whaver you want, as long as you eat at a deficit" is true, but it's garbage advice.
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Now that I've had some coffee...
This a public forum. People from all over the world who are at different points on their journey, come here with different goals, different backgrounds, different personalities, and different ways of learning to get opinions from other regular joes about something. It is absurd to think that any one poster can type a perfectly crafted response considering all those differences. So we all come from where we are and say what we think the OP needs to hear. As posters in a public forum, I would suggest this is exactly what we are supposed to do.
While clearly some of you think that telling people they can eat whatever they want is bad advice, others have posted about how much that advice helped them. Aren't their needs as important as yours? I will post the advice I think is helpful, and some people will need to hear my advice and it will help them. Then you can post your advice, and people who needed to hear that can be helped by your advice. That is I think actually how this place is supposed to work.
We've all seen the ACV posts where 25 replies say it's useless, and 1 reply says it helped them lose weight, and the OP only responds to that 1 response that they felt spoke to them. But then there are others where OP goes, Wow guys thanks for letting me know, I'll just focus on what I'm eating. People will get what they think they need and if it doesn't work will know they can come back and use one of the other suggestions they got.
Rather than starting or participating in a thread where you complain that people aren't volunteering information you agree with, why not start posting your own advice? Then there will be even more info for newbies to be helped by. And I don't mean go into other threads and shoot down other people's advice! I mean I post what I think is helpful. You post what you think is helpful. Someone can direct to a stickie post. And the OP can decide who to engage with from there.
This thread has really started to feel like a bunch of people standing around watching a car burn, and when someone else runs in to try to pull out the driver, all the bystanders start yelling at the guy that he's doing it wrong. I feel like perhaps we need to sing a round of Kumbaya :flowerforyou:13 -
JeromeBarry1 wrote: »I'll jump in. This past Christmas season was my first Christmas in CICO land. I discovered that there is indeed an attractive calorie-dense food which I cannot eat in moderation. Pecan pie. It was good, but it won't be invited into my home again. I had 30 grams of fruitcake every day for 2 months, 130 calories each. But portioning enough pecan pie into something I can eat and be satisfied and be under 200 calories proved impossible. I can have Girl Scout Cookies in moderation. I can have fruitcake in moderation. I can even have chia seeds on my homemade pizza in moderation. Now that I've discovered that I can't be moderate with pecan pie, there's no point experimenting with banana pudding and coconut cake. When I was big and fat, no reason existed that I should consider avoiding pies, cakes, or even put chia seeds on a pizza. None at all. When I decided to start living like a small person, everything I could eat was evaluated in a new light. Should I eat it? Some delights pass the test. Some don't. My calorie budget is to get at least 1600 and stop at 1700. Sometimes I eat exercise calories. Yesterday I exercised ate calories.
Ah, pecan pie. Nom nom nom. The only reason I can be moderate with pecan pie is because everyone else likes it too and there aren't any leftovers.
I have a similar strategy to you - while I can moderate some foods, some I need to abstain from. This is a continuous learning process for me, which would no doubt be quicker if I adopted what seems to be your policy of categories of foods.0 -
diannethegeek wrote: »VioletRojo wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »prattiger65 wrote: »Me too WG, and with that I am out. #ragequit
Today is my 1495th day of consecutive logging on MFP and I've been telling my friends list that I'm considering an epic ragequit before I hit 1500 days. Maybe this will be the catalyst.
Please don't. There were so many helpful and knowledgeable posters when I started that helped me figure out what I was supposed to be doing. I hardly ever post, but I read a lot. Most of the truly helpful posters have gone (been banned for being helpful) and you are one of the few that are left. I you leave, you leave newbies to keto pushers and food eliminators. That won't be good for anyone.
I don't think anyone ever *wants* to leave the boards and let it be overrun by ACV and MLM threads. Especially not after years of posting here. But handing out advice day in and day out -- advice that's been specifically asked for -- only to be yelled at for it on a weekly basis starts to get to a person. I don't blame any of my fellow regulars who feel like they've needed to walk away over the years. The hope is that others will step up and take our place, but who knows. In two years this board could swing back to nothing but kitten gifs and high fives for detoxes.
I understand completely why you and the other regulars would need to leave, I just hope that you don't.7 -
WinoGelato wrote: »
Really? I have success rates with ALL my clients and I don't preach eating "clean" at all. In fact, I do tell them to eat whatever they like AS LONG AS they don't exceed the calorie intake set for them. Do you know why people fail at diets? Because they usually are restricted from eating things they actually like. If one LEARNS how to control how much of something like eat, then the chances are higher that they will adhere to that habitual behavior.People don't want to eat 1 slice of pizza, or a 1/4 of a plate of Loco Rice, or 7 chili cheese fries. They want to have a meal. If you eat the "right amount" of junk food to stay within your calorie limits, you're going to be starving to death and it's going to cause you to eat more. Eating food that doesn't taste as good as what you want is much better than satisfying a craving and then derailing later because you were so hungry you caved. There are a few people around here who have done their time, lost their weight, and they are in good shape. These people give advice from the "look at me, I lost a ton of weight so I know what I'm doing" stand point, but seem to have forgotten what it was like to ACTUALLY live as a fat person. So when someone tells you you can have junk food, don't listen to them, not because they are lying to you - they aren't, it's true - but because the advice isn't helpful in practice.
Sorry if you can't do it, but that's an issue you deal with that you have to fix. Unless you have some actual peer reviewed clinical study that one CAN'T be taught moderation, you're just opining what you believe.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I scratch my head when you say eat what you want.....and then show what experience you have for 30 years in nutrition.
I'm not a know it all, don't claim anything. Just kinda seemed strange, with all the bad food's out there. All the preservatives and crap they put in food now days. Maybe it's a 2 step process, lose weight by eating your favorite foods at less calories then maybe changing over to clean later on after you lose the weight.
How specifically do preservatives make food "bad"? Isn't that kind of the point of preservatives, to keep food from going bad?
But seriously - eating clean is not a requirement for weight loss, or for overall health. There are plenty of nutrient dense processed foods with preservatives that can be incorporated into the context of a healthy diet. Additionally, eating "junk" food in moderation does not make a person unhealthy. What I think @ninerbuff has described about his approach, particularly with overweight and obese clients, is that simply losing weight, regardless of the types of foods one eats while losing, improves overall health. Then from there, it is possible to become more health and nutrition focused - but again, as has been said COUNTLESS times in this thread - telling someone they can eat what they want and still lose does not mean that they should eat nothing but junk food. Presuming that someone plans to eat nothing but junk food, simply because a personal trainer, or someone on the MFP boards tells them it is ok - is a strange assumption to make about someone.
So the preservatives in food aren't causing cancer, HBP, diabetes etc....Why not just go eat a triple whopper with bacon and cheese everyday. I was not being mean, it just seemed odd that a nutritionist were say eat what you want just cut back on everything.
Now let me say to your response of "How specifically do preservatives make food "bad"? That's also a strange comment to say too.
My original statement was in agreement that it's more important to lose the weight then worry about eating better later on. I just said it sounded strange. But like I said what do I know.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »I am also used to forums where debate is common (sometimes polite, sometimes less so, depending on the forum, although I like polite better). Here lots of people seem to take disagreement as, well, mean, which I find puzzling.
I spent serious time on an unmoderated Skeptics forum that was downright nasty. And I was more than comfortable with that. So seeing what gets called mean here seriously makes me lass my *puppy* off.
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Tacklewasher wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »prattiger65 wrote: »Me too WG, and with that I am out. #ragequit
Today is my 1495th day of consecutive logging on MFP and I've been telling my friends list that I'm considering an epic ragequit before I hit 1500 days. Maybe this will be the catalyst.
Please don't.
Quick comment for @dfwesq Like you, I've moderated board elsewhere. But there is a different "feel" here when it comes to new posters. Anywhere else I've posted, people who come to a board lurk first to get a feel for what the board is like, and that simply doesn't happen here. I've no idea why or maybe the boards I participate in are different and this is the norm. For example, given the number of new people who come in asking about ACV without doing a single search first, is astounding. Now they all come here after seeing it somewhere (Facebook it seems), buying it, starting to drink it and then come looking for people who are doing the same. A quick search will very quickly tell them how useless it is, and how it is not taken seriously here. But they don't even do that basic search. I admit it astounds me. But, as per the rules here, that is acceptable. And it is considered mean to ask them to do a search.
Now, when I started, I lurked. For a fair bit. Fortunately, what I saw was people posting to research, challenging those who were expressing an unfounded opinion as fact and generally trying to be reasoned and rational in their approach (talking most veterans here). I saw Dr. Oz essentially ridiculed and most diet fads called just that. In other words, I knew I would fit in just fine and started learning, then posting.
How, or why was it different for your?
Not 100% sure this has anything to do with it, but I know for me weight loss is a relatively selfish endeavor. In most other aspects of my life, my efforts are dedicated to others - spouse, children, work, etc. MFP is all about me
(But I still lurked first and at least conduct a board search before posting any questions I have that aren't covered by that, which is rare!)
Everyone thinks they are a special snowflake.
And this is why we're friends.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »Quick comment for @dfwesq Like you, I've moderated board elsewhere. But there is a different "feel" here when it comes to new posters. Anywhere else I've posted, people who come to a board lurk first to get a feel for what the board is like, and that simply doesn't happen here. I've no idea why or maybe the boards I participate in are different and this is the norm.
Yes, this is one thing that has surprised me too. I lurked first and read some of the stickies, and I didn't start a thread for ages and ages. Because that was my pattern. I also always searched for threads on a topic of interest before posting, although I know we are not supposed to suggest that that would be better forum behavior.
I think it's kind of odd that people don't here, but I am sure we are all biased by where we are most familiar with.
I am also used to forums where debate is common (sometimes polite, sometimes less so, depending on the forum, although I like polite better). Here lots of people seem to take disagreement as, well, mean, which I find puzzling. My main other forum was a book one, but I've also played around or had a lengthier relationship in forums that discussed politics, law, religion, and music -- all topics that can be contentious (and indeed I recall a knock-down blow-out about Great Gatsby back in the day and a long debate about postmodern lit (mostly what it is and does it suck or not), so the internet can be weird).
I get the sense that the newbie posters on MFP are more likely to be familiar with areas of the internet I am not (YouTube followers, instagram, of course FB), and less so some of the areas I find most interesting (and some maybe aren't particularly into forums or different forum cultures -- this one definitely is moderated much more than the others I've been part of, even though they were quite friendly overall, so nothing bad came of light moderation and self-moderation).
I admit that all of these impressions may be related to the fact that I am old (I remember usenet), and I never did fitness internet pre MFP.
I have to agree with this. I too lurked for a long time before posting anything. I read stickies in any forum I visit before I do anything else. It always puzzled me how people can post questions that a few seconds on Google can answer as well as not read anything before posting.
I was also a member of a certain popular baby board and if you want to see mean drop a cloth diapering is the only way thread and watch the explosion. :laugh:8 -
Packerjohn wrote: »andrewq6100 wrote: »prattiger65 wrote: »andrewq6100 wrote: »just no twinkie diets please....
I used to be a guy that was "omg no junk (and let me rephrase JUNK for some people)) no high carb empty calorie foods like CANDY BARS GUMMY WORMS ICE CREAMS MCDONALDS once in a while or your diet is ruined" but I tried that and had what is called, for druggies..a RELAPSE...my body was at a point where it felt the need to GAIN the weight back I had lost so in turn I BINGED, because I cut out foods my body was USED to and ENJOYED. Now, even though it's in HEAVY moderation, I do enjoy those things but alas they are not a staple for my weight loss. I would never attribute my personal weight loss to the fact that "I can eat anything as long as i'm in a deficit" because for me that was simply not true. If I had eaten a sweet or candy or cake etc during my initial weight loss even IN a deficit it would for some reason turn on a switch and make me go even harder with the sweets junk etc and would essentially push me OVER my limit. Once I was able to master my mental practice of eating habits then I was able to fit in foods I enjoyed, but until then I had to enact discipline as many do to get it started.
Idc how many people say "well i didn't have to" thats fine because every human is different. But I know a lot of people i've worked with (and no i'm no where NEAR a PT or nutritionist) but they get the FASTEST results and most satisfactory results FROM eating "CLEAN AKA Not trying to worry if a candy bar cake mcdonalds will FIT in their macros". What I mean is that a lot of people doing weight loss PREFER to cut the junk out not because its BAD for them but because its just not needed for their specific goals.
Sure a treat is nice every once in a while but if Person A) want's to get shredded for a competition in 12 weeks and has never done anything in his life remotely close to this, then most likely he is NOT going to want to have anything to do with sweets and mcdonalds because it might SABATOGE his process. I'm not saying it WILL i'm saying from a mental standpoint it could. Again every person is different but I will always point back to this; flexibile dieting is KEY but eating like POOP is not. You can be in a deficit all you want while eating cakes if that's what your into, but some people, like me, prefer to just cut it out because to us, calories in vs calories out counts for a lot more than just a number and a food type.
Sorry, but this is full of nope. Common MFP fallacy, "everyone is different". Nope, everyone must abide by the laws of physics. You will lose weight in a calorie deficit no matter what you eat. My experience here on MFP for the last three years is exactly opposite of what you say, many many more people succeed by NOT restricting as opposed to those who cut out foods or food groups. It's at least 10-1, probably higher. There are so many straw men in this post it needs a warning label as a fire hazard.
Well as far as everyone is different..we are, physiologically yes, and as well as goal specific yes. You cannot be a 10% shredded athlete while trying to fit mcdonalds into your micro/macro plan every day. Maybe once or twice a week. As for the every day MFP FAM weight loss person then of course "calorie deficit, calories in calories out" is fine and dandy but for the small percentage of us on MFP who want to achieve that greater body composition and i'm sure there are more out there "in the bushes" and also maintain a cool 7-10% yr round, and even some who may be beginning competition prep, they and neither would their coach, recommend indulging in poop foods more often than not. If it is such a falsity than why do pro coaches exist, why is there such thing as "competition prep" and how do figure and bodybuilder pros continue to look like they do while only eating what they do? Or do they really just stuff their face constantly with junk behind the scenes and we don't see it? I'm not saying restricting or CUTTING foods for the every day joe and dane, but if your goal is THIS or THAT you eventually have to sacrifice THIS or THAT, its the law of success.. With every success comes failure, and a sacrifice and if you don't know that well then you haven't succeeded.
Chad Johnson/Ochocinco laughs at this. He ate McDonald's on the way to practice every day. True, I don't know his actual BF%, but c'mon, man.
Would not doubt it, but an NFL receiver is not an average individual. It would not surprise me if he needed 5000 calories a day to maintain weight. I would assume most high level athletes in that situation are probably eating 3000+ or so calories worth of nutrient dense foods to ensure proper nutrition and they are filling in the remainder up other items to ensure enough calories to fuel themselves.
...
Right. And my response was to the part I bolded, where he claimed, "You cannot be a 10% shredded athlete while trying to fit mcdonalds into your micro/macro plan every day." So it wasn't supposed to represent anything regarding any average individual.4 -
1 slice of pizza??? Ha! I'll eat 4-5 slices in a sitting and still be under or at calories because I've compensated the rest of the day. And you can pry my nightly M&Ms from my cold, dead hands.
And, no, I haven't forgotten what it feels like to be fat. I remember the feeling very, very well.
So you can believe the advice is garbage, while I live that lifestyle successfully.9 -
fitoverfortymom wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »prattiger65 wrote: »Me too WG, and with that I am out. #ragequit
Today is my 1495th day of consecutive logging on MFP and I've been telling my friends list that I'm considering an epic ragequit before I hit 1500 days. Maybe this will be the catalyst.
Please don't.
Quick comment for @dfwesq Like you, I've moderated board elsewhere. But there is a different "feel" here when it comes to new posters. Anywhere else I've posted, people who come to a board lurk first to get a feel for what the board is like, and that simply doesn't happen here. I've no idea why or maybe the boards I participate in are different and this is the norm. For example, given the number of new people who come in asking about ACV without doing a single search first, is astounding. Now they all come here after seeing it somewhere (Facebook it seems), buying it, starting to drink it and then come looking for people who are doing the same. A quick search will very quickly tell them how useless it is, and how it is not taken seriously here. But they don't even do that basic search. I admit it astounds me. But, as per the rules here, that is acceptable. And it is considered mean to ask them to do a search.
Now, when I started, I lurked. For a fair bit. Fortunately, what I saw was people posting to research, challenging those who were expressing an unfounded opinion as fact and generally trying to be reasoned and rational in their approach (talking most veterans here). I saw Dr. Oz essentially ridiculed and most diet fads called just that. In other words, I knew I would fit in just fine and started learning, then posting.
How, or why was it different for your?
Not 100% sure this has anything to do with it, but I know for me weight loss is a relatively selfish endeavor. In most other aspects of my life, my efforts are dedicated to others - spouse, children, work, etc. MFP is all about me (But I still lurked first and at least conduct a board search before posting any questions I have that aren't covered by that, which is rare!)
Everyone thinks they are a special snowflake.
And this is why we're friends.
It's because I'm a special snowflake, isn't it? I KNEW I was the specialest special snowflake of all!5 -
WinoGelato wrote: »
Really? I have success rates with ALL my clients and I don't preach eating "clean" at all. In fact, I do tell them to eat whatever they like AS LONG AS they don't exceed the calorie intake set for them. Do you know why people fail at diets? Because they usually are restricted from eating things they actually like. If one LEARNS how to control how much of something like eat, then the chances are higher that they will adhere to that habitual behavior.People don't want to eat 1 slice of pizza, or a 1/4 of a plate of Loco Rice, or 7 chili cheese fries. They want to have a meal. If you eat the "right amount" of junk food to stay within your calorie limits, you're going to be starving to death and it's going to cause you to eat more. Eating food that doesn't taste as good as what you want is much better than satisfying a craving and then derailing later because you were so hungry you caved. There are a few people around here who have done their time, lost their weight, and they are in good shape. These people give advice from the "look at me, I lost a ton of weight so I know what I'm doing" stand point, but seem to have forgotten what it was like to ACTUALLY live as a fat person. So when someone tells you you can have junk food, don't listen to them, not because they are lying to you - they aren't, it's true - but because the advice isn't helpful in practice.
Sorry if you can't do it, but that's an issue you deal with that you have to fix. Unless you have some actual peer reviewed clinical study that one CAN'T be taught moderation, you're just opining what you believe.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I scratch my head when you say eat what you want.....and then show what experience you have for 30 years in nutrition.
I'm not a know it all, don't claim anything. Just kinda seemed strange, with all the bad food's out there. All the preservatives and crap they put in food now days. Maybe it's a 2 step process, lose weight by eating your favorite foods at less calories then maybe changing over to clean later on after you lose the weight.
How specifically do preservatives make food "bad"? Isn't that kind of the point of preservatives, to keep food from going bad?
But seriously - eating clean is not a requirement for weight loss, or for overall health. There are plenty of nutrient dense processed foods with preservatives that can be incorporated into the context of a healthy diet. Additionally, eating "junk" food in moderation does not make a person unhealthy. What I think @ninerbuff has described about his approach, particularly with overweight and obese clients, is that simply losing weight, regardless of the types of foods one eats while losing, improves overall health. Then from there, it is possible to become more health and nutrition focused - but again, as has been said COUNTLESS times in this thread - telling someone they can eat what they want and still lose does not mean that they should eat nothing but junk food. Presuming that someone plans to eat nothing but junk food, simply because a personal trainer, or someone on the MFP boards tells them it is ok - is a strange assumption to make about someone.
So the preservatives in food aren't causing cancer, HBP, diabetes etc....Why not just go eat a triple whopper with bacon and cheese everyday. I was not being mean, it just seemed odd that a nutritionist were say eat what you want just cut back on everything.
Now let me say to your response of "How specifically do preservatives make food "bad"? That's also a strange comment to say too.
My original statement was in agreement that it's more important to lose the weight then worry about eating better later on. I just said it sounded strange. But like I said what do I know.
Since this thread hasn't been frustrating enough, I will bite. Which preservatives are you referring to which cause cancer, diabetes, and high blood pressure. Please provide scientific studies, not FoodBabe blogs. I have a chemistry degree, so don't worry about scaring me off with big chemical names. I can handle it.
I can't eat a triple bacon cheeseburger every day from a calorie perspective, but if I could, what would be the harm in it? It has carbs, fat and protein. I can easily fit a McDouble into my day, and though it's not my preference taste wise, how would that be detrimental to my health? If my morning is Greek yogurt with fruit, or eggs with spinach and ham, and my lunch is a spinach salad with salmon, how will my health be negatively impacted if I eat a McDouble in between 9 hours of work and running kids to soccer practice?17 -
fitoverfortymom wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »prattiger65 wrote: »Me too WG, and with that I am out. #ragequit
Today is my 1495th day of consecutive logging on MFP and I've been telling my friends list that I'm considering an epic ragequit before I hit 1500 days. Maybe this will be the catalyst.
Please don't.
Quick comment for @dfwesq Like you, I've moderated board elsewhere. But there is a different "feel" here when it comes to new posters. Anywhere else I've posted, people who come to a board lurk first to get a feel for what the board is like, and that simply doesn't happen here. I've no idea why or maybe the boards I participate in are different and this is the norm. For example, given the number of new people who come in asking about ACV without doing a single search first, is astounding. Now they all come here after seeing it somewhere (Facebook it seems), buying it, starting to drink it and then come looking for people who are doing the same. A quick search will very quickly tell them how useless it is, and how it is not taken seriously here. But they don't even do that basic search. I admit it astounds me. But, as per the rules here, that is acceptable. And it is considered mean to ask them to do a search.
Now, when I started, I lurked. For a fair bit. Fortunately, what I saw was people posting to research, challenging those who were expressing an unfounded opinion as fact and generally trying to be reasoned and rational in their approach (talking most veterans here). I saw Dr. Oz essentially ridiculed and most diet fads called just that. In other words, I knew I would fit in just fine and started learning, then posting.
How, or why was it different for your?
Not 100% sure this has anything to do with it, but I know for me weight loss is a relatively selfish endeavor. In most other aspects of my life, my efforts are dedicated to others - spouse, children, work, etc. MFP is all about me (But I still lurked first and at least conduct a board search before posting any questions I have that aren't covered by that, which is rare!)
Everyone thinks they are a special snowflake.
And this is why we're friends.
It's because I'm a special snowflake, isn't it? I KNEW I was the specialest special snowflake of all!
The. Most. Specialest.3 -
HeliumIsNoble wrote: »
Going with Burger King, not McDonalds, but:
A regular cheeseburger - like the one that used to be a standard order, before everything got bigger? Is 270 calories (13g protein, 27g carbs, 12g fat) A "value" fry - which was a "regular" fry, when I was a kid, is 220 calories (3g protein, 31g cabs, 10g fat).
That, right there, used to be a standard meal at BK. 490 calories, 16g protein, 58g carbs, 22g fat. High on carbs and low on fiber, but not outside the realm of manageable. And if you're on more than 1200 calories a day, you could fit it in as lunch pretty easily.
I'd be satisfied with that meal, and I wouldn't feel particularly let down by it somehow being tiny and not filling. And yeah, no veggies (well, except for the Reagan Administration's favorite vegetable), but context matters - if this is lunch out before you go home for a balanced dinner? It's not the end of the world.6 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I am also used to forums where debate is common (sometimes polite, sometimes less so, depending on the forum, although I like polite better). Here lots of people seem to take disagreement as, well, mean, which I find puzzling.
I spent serious time on an unmoderated Skeptics forum that was downright nasty. And I was more than comfortable with that. So seeing what gets called mean here seriously makes me lass my *puppy* off.
Agreed. I've never moderated, but have participated on many, many forums. What's "mean" and "hijacking" here is small potatoes compared to anywhere else I've known. That said, the general expectation here is of support group nature, so I don't really have a problem with that, but my name is @fitoverfortymom and I'm a snarkaholic.6 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »I have to agree with this. I too lurked for a long time before posting anything. I read stickies in any forum I visit before I do anything else. It always puzzled me how people can post questions that a few seconds on Google can answer as well as not read anything before posting.
I always wonder the same. I know I have responded to a couple of posts in other forums with the trite "google is your friend" phrase,
, and I am sure that some find that annoying. But geez...it just seems to make more sense to me to do my own research first. Maybe I am just more inclined to research stuff, than to take someone's word for it. 3 -
WinoGelato wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.
I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."
Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)
What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.
To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.
Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?
YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.2 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »Quick comment for @dfwesq Like you, I've moderated board elsewhere. But there is a different "feel" here when it comes to new posters. Anywhere else I've posted, people who come to a board lurk first to get a feel for what the board is like, and that simply doesn't happen here. I've no idea why or maybe the boards I participate in are different and this is the norm.
Yes, this is one thing that has surprised me too. I lurked first and read some of the stickies, and I didn't start a thread for ages and ages. Because that was my pattern. I also always searched for threads on a topic of interest before posting, although I know we are not supposed to suggest that that would be better forum behavior.
I think it's kind of odd that people don't here, but I am sure we are all biased by where we are most familiar with.
I am also used to forums where debate is common (sometimes polite, sometimes less so, depending on the forum, although I like polite better). Here lots of people seem to take disagreement as, well, mean, which I find puzzling. My main other forum was a book one, but I've also played around or had a lengthier relationship in forums that discussed politics, law, religion, and music -- all topics that can be contentious (and indeed I recall a knock-down blow-out about Great Gatsby back in the day and a long debate about postmodern lit (mostly what it is and does it suck or not), so the internet can be weird).
I get the sense that the newbie posters on MFP are more likely to be familiar with areas of the internet I am not (YouTube followers, instagram, of course FB), and less so some of the areas I find most interesting (and some maybe aren't particularly into forums or different forum cultures -- this one definitely is moderated much more than the others I've been part of, even though they were quite friendly overall, so nothing bad came of light moderation and self-moderation).
I admit that all of these impressions may be related to the fact that I am old (I remember usenet), and I never did fitness internet pre MFP.
I have to agree with this. I too lurked for a long time before posting anything. I read stickies in any forum I visit before I do anything else. It always puzzled me how people can post questions that a few seconds on Google can answer as well as not read anything before posting.
I was also a member of a certain popular baby board and if you want to see mean drop a cloth diapering is the only way thread and watch the explosion. :laugh:
Breastfeeding vs. Bottle is way worse than cloth diapering
I also lurked and read everything before I started posting. I thought that was basic internet etiquette.
One of the things regarding the push back veterans see from newbies I think has to do with the psychology of dieters. How to phrase this... dieting is personal. A lot of people are mired in a set of complex feelings regarding their weight and losing that weight and bring all of that with them when they come to these forums.
I'm not saying this justifies how they act, mind you. I think, in an ideal world, people should accept responsibility for their actions and be civil to each other and give other people credit for treating them with good intent. Saying that, I know that a lot of people on certain parts of their path to weight loss aren't really at a place where they're truly accepting full responsibility for their part in being overweight in the first place, and are defensive and come here in that sort of vulnerable fragility that being on the defense places you.
It puts anyone giving them advice in a damned if you do, damned if you don't position.4 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.
I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."
Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)
What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.
To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.
Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?
YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.
Why would you assume that people who are eating healthy aren't "eating what they want"?
Why do you assume that new users are completely ignorant of the fact that humans have nutritional needs?
Presumably if they're living long enough to get to the forums, they're already meeting their needs and they aren't going to replace the foods that have been meeting those needs with a diet consisting only of a jumbo bag of Skittles and vodka just because someone online tells them they can eat the foods they like and still lose weight.14 -
You guys just take every single word someone writes literally, to the t. I don't mean that you have to spend the rest of your life not eating things you enjoy. I also don't mean that you can NEVER have things you enjoy, or that are calorie dense. What I do mean, and was obvious in the original post, that is if you aren't just looking for something to complain about, is that dieting under the idea that "you can have whatever, so long as it fits in your calorie count" is not an effective long term solution because MOST people, especially larger people, run out of calories waaaaay before they become satiated. If you are a 135lb woman that's 5'9 which I think was an example somewhere in this thread, and you're only eating at a 500 calorie deficit, no *kitten* you are gonna be full before you run out of calories. You're small, even if you aren't at your "goal" you are going to feel satiated. If you are the kind of person who is accustomed to eating 3500-4000 calories a day and your prescribed amount is 2500, there is absolutely NO WAY that you can eat the calorie dense foods you enjoy, but at a lower quantity, and not be absolutely starving to death. Which will lead to a derailment in most people. Contrary to popular belief, will power is not a dominant trait. So there you go, here's another post for you guys to pick apart to for *kitten* that is obviously not what I meant.
I agree and I agreed with your original post as well. I knew exactly where you were coming from. But of course, the one's that have it all figured out (now) or never struggled with it will tear apart your statement....4 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »BlueSkyShoal wrote: »Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.
I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."
Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)
What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.
To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.
Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?
YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.
At the risk of rehashing the same argument that has been made 50+ times in this forum, I will bite. You are talking about two different things again. The people posting are saying that yes you can eat whatever you want within your caloric goals TO LOSE WEIGHT. No one is saying that would be the healthiest diet in the world, but that it would in fact still reduce weight. They are not saying you would hit all of your macros or that it would be "clean"; they are only saying that it would still lead to weight loss.8
This discussion has been closed.
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