"You can eat whaver you want, as long as you eat at a deficit" is true, but it's garbage advice.

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  • dfwesq
    dfwesq Posts: 592 Member
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    AnvilHead wrote: »
    1) Yes, there clearly are people who are afflicted with various eating disorders.

    2) Yes, there clearly are stupid people with no common sense who do stupid things in spite of the fact that it's a terrible idea.

    Neither of the above would be paying the least bit of attention to logical common sense advice, so they're irrelevant to this thread (and the entire topic in general).
    Let me give you an example of what I think is a good way to put it. This person asked about whether they should be drinking a gallon of water a day.
    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10529957/gallon-of-water-a-day#latest
    I think your response was perfect. Someone was confused, and you pointed them to good information. Yes, it's a tired old health rumor that people with common sense should ignore, but people are still falling for it. I'm glad you decided to give this person this information.

  • dfwesq
    dfwesq Posts: 592 Member
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    Alatariel75 wrote: »
    Funnily enough, as Diannethegeek has said up-thread, people often get called meanies or smartasses when they just drop a link into a thread like that. It's almost like newbies all have different, individual expectations of how they ought to be approached ;)
    I'm really very sorry that people are mean when you point them to helpful information. It's no fun to try to help people out and get flamed for it. But I do think being helpful and accurate is the way to go.

  • andrewq6100
    andrewq6100 Posts: 415 Member
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    prattiger65 wrote: »
    andrewq6100 wrote: »
    just no twinkie diets please....

    I used to be a guy that was "omg no junk (and let me rephrase JUNK for some people)) no high carb empty calorie foods like CANDY BARS GUMMY WORMS ICE CREAMS MCDONALDS once in a while or your diet is ruined" but I tried that and had what is called, for druggies..a RELAPSE...my body was at a point where it felt the need to GAIN the weight back I had lost so in turn I BINGED, because I cut out foods my body was USED to and ENJOYED. Now, even though it's in HEAVY moderation, I do enjoy those things but alas they are not a staple for my weight loss. I would never attribute my personal weight loss to the fact that "I can eat anything as long as i'm in a deficit" because for me that was simply not true. If I had eaten a sweet or candy or cake etc during my initial weight loss even IN a deficit it would for some reason turn on a switch and make me go even harder with the sweets junk etc and would essentially push me OVER my limit. Once I was able to master my mental practice of eating habits then I was able to fit in foods I enjoyed, but until then I had to enact discipline as many do to get it started.

    Idc how many people say "well i didn't have to" thats fine because every human is different. But I know a lot of people i've worked with (and no i'm no where NEAR a PT or nutritionist) but they get the FASTEST results and most satisfactory results FROM eating "CLEAN AKA Not trying to worry if a candy bar cake mcdonalds will FIT in their macros". What I mean is that a lot of people doing weight loss PREFER to cut the junk out not because its BAD for them but because its just not needed for their specific goals.

    Sure a treat is nice every once in a while but if Person A) want's to get shredded for a competition in 12 weeks and has never done anything in his life remotely close to this, then most likely he is NOT going to want to have anything to do with sweets and mcdonalds because it might SABATOGE his process. I'm not saying it WILL i'm saying from a mental standpoint it could. Again every person is different but I will always point back to this; flexibile dieting is KEY but eating like POOP is not. You can be in a deficit all you want while eating cakes if that's what your into, but some people, like me, prefer to just cut it out because to us, calories in vs calories out counts for a lot more than just a number and a food type.

    Sorry, but this is full of nope. Common MFP fallacy, "everyone is different". Nope, everyone must abide by the laws of physics. You will lose weight in a calorie deficit no matter what you eat. My experience here on MFP for the last three years is exactly opposite of what you say, many many more people succeed by NOT restricting as opposed to those who cut out foods or food groups. It's at least 10-1, probably higher. There are so many straw men in this post it needs a warning label as a fire hazard.

    Well as far as everyone is different..we are, physiologically yes, and as well as goal specific yes. You cannot be a 10% shredded athlete while trying to fit mcdonalds into your micro/macro plan every day. Maybe once or twice a week. As for the every day MFP FAM weight loss person then of course "calorie deficit, calories in calories out" is fine and dandy but for the small percentage of us on MFP who want to achieve that greater body composition and i'm sure there are more out there "in the bushes" and also maintain a cool 7-10% yr round, and even some who may be beginning competition prep, they and neither would their coach, recommend indulging in poop foods more often than not. If it is such a falsity than why do pro coaches exist, why is there such thing as "competition prep" and how do figure and bodybuilder pros continue to look like they do while only eating what they do? Or do they really just stuff their face constantly with junk behind the scenes and we don't see it? I'm not saying restricting or CUTTING foods for the every day joe and dane, but if your goal is THIS or THAT you eventually have to sacrifice THIS or THAT, its the law of success.. With every success comes failure, and a sacrifice and if you don't know that well then you haven't succeeded.
  • surreychic
    surreychic Posts: 117 Member
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    I am fortunate to like vegetables (unfortunate that I like all food a bit too much! I used to sing with happiness when I was weaned apparently). I haven't battled bingeing completely - aa different story. l still like pizza, chocolate etc and have it nearly every day but I have a smaller portion and fill my plate sky high with vegetables these days, if I didn't my plate would be filled sky high with pizza. So I guess it is about overall deficit but some foods are more filing than others and if I open a packet of biscuits, well I'll eat the lot and I don't miss them when they are not there so I try to have healthier options, staying within my allowance. When I feel well!
  • snowflake954
    snowflake954 Posts: 8,400 Member
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    Chef_Barbell wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    Chef_Barbell wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    dfwesq wrote: »
    Alatariel75 wrote: »
    We actually have those links, and they get pointed to all the time. Unsurprisingly, they don't seem to get read that much ;)
    OK, but you can point them out again. I'm giving you the newbie's point of view on this, btw. :) The brand new newbie has not seen your earlier posts about the stickies, and may not know how to find them or even that they exist. I understand it's tiresome to be complete each time, but it's really really helpful. Some newbies may ignore it, but others will pay attention and go on to success. :)

    Speaking of which, is there a link that answers the question of whether "eat whatever you want..." is good advice? (Serious question.) If it was posted earlier, I didn't notice it.

    You realize none of us are moderators, right? Maybe I'm misreading. But it sounds like you are saying that if I don't feel like addressing every possible variable every time I post, I really should just point them to the stickies and stay out of it?

    This is a public forum for a reason. It's not a FAQ.

    There is so much value here and so much experience to be learned from and you really just bummed me out.

    It feels like that is implied all too often. Some days I wonder why do I even bother?

    IKR? Luckily I do often get thank yous, sometimes in thread and sometimes a PM. But yeah, I understand why some people who used to donate a lot if time here have disappeared.

    Seriously. I am glad I was here when people who are now banned were here and freely gave out awesome advice as blunt and direct as it could possibly be.

    Me too!
  • crackpotbaby
    crackpotbaby Posts: 1,297 Member
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    kimny72 wrote: »
    dfwesq wrote: »
    leanjogreen18 wrote: »
    dfwesq wrote: »
    They need to change what they eat - not just how much - and to some extent they need to change their lifestyle too, to make it sustainable. So "eat whatever you want" isn't really helpful advice for those people.

    Respectfully the bolded is kinda incomplete advice as well isn't it? What changes do I need to make? What foods should I eat? Can I eat nothing but Kale? See what I'm saying?
    Not really, because it's not advice. There's a difference between my saying that a group of people needs to change their eating habits and me replying to someone who's asking a question about whether they need to eat less fast food. The person who asked a question was asking for guidance, and got it, which sounds a lot more like advice. That is why I gave the example I did, to give an example of one situation where that advice is sometimes given.

    Okay, so help us out then. A newbie starts a thread and says "I really need to lose weight, but I really love carbs so I'm stuck! Help!!!" My response would be - Hey OP, you don't HAVE to go low carb, you just need to hit your calorie goal, you can eat whatever food you want!" This I guess is garbage incomplete advice. So could you please tell me what we are supposed to say, and keep in mind there are HUNDREDS of threads started every day.

    Well, you know - you don't *have* to respond, but if you do then it's helpful to qualify your answers with something like 'you don't have to not eat anything made of carbohydrates ... losing weight depends on making sure you consume less energy than you expend even if a some of those calories come from simple and complex carbs (sugars. fruits, veggies,breads, rice etc). Are you wanting to restrict carbs because you know you tend to overeat with this kind of food? If so, can you identify why ... and would to rather limit your intake of *donuts/biscuits/whatever the kitten here* than cut it out? ... because you can still enjoy these things if you're willing and able to incorporate them in to a calorie controlled plan'

    Or something.

    Giving a short, vague, incomplete answer is often less helpful than not *helping* at all.

  • crackpotbaby
    crackpotbaby Posts: 1,297 Member
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    prattiger65 wrote: »
    kq1981 wrote: »
    I'm relatively new. The over all consensus that I have gathered from reading many posts (maybe I spend to much time here) is calorie in, calorie out, eat what you want within moderation, be realistic and learn what works for you along the way. Don't deprive yourself of junk just limit it and practise control and educate yourself on how to make these foods fit into your deficit. I have taken this on board and have reached my first weight loss goal in 6 weeks.

    You are doing it right! And the more you learn, the better your diet will get and the better choices you will make. If the posters who are being so obtuse actually saw what most of us really eat they would probably shut up. Over time you learn more and your habits change, slowly but surely. The subject has been studied ad nauseum and the highest success rates come from NOT restricting foods or food groups. Do people have success other wise? Of course, but statistically it's far less.

    Which statistics?
  • ronjsteele1
    ronjsteele1 Posts: 1,064 Member
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    Christine_72 wrote: »
    I dont demonise foods, but there are certain foods that i avoid because the "serving size" or ridiculous amount of calories for a small amount of food is just not worth it for me. I just have trouble, or i don't want to stop eating these foods once i hit my calorie limit, and then most often than not I'm still hungry or unsatisfied afterward and I'll end up eating more and going over my calories. So for some foods, abstinence works better for me than moderation.

    This.^^^^ I am generally one that eats a whole food diet but when I want something that I consider "junk food" (which is like a bowl of cereal or kettle chips in our house), I don't consider it a "cheat." I make it work within my day. Any issues I have with maintaining a deficit beyond that are purely emotional for me. But there is one thing I do NOT keep in my house, nor do I buy them - salt and vinegar chips. Because there is no such thing as eating one serving of those for me. It's all or nothing. So I choose nothing. But beyond that one item, nothing is off limits if I'm wanting it. I think others have said it well. Posters are expecting people that are reading to have common sense in interpreting what is being said, no one is advocating a junk food diet to lose weight, and even demonizing something eaten as a "cheat" isn't really helpful in the long run. If someone has an ED then common sense dictates lots of this advice might not apply to them, but surely they can figure that out? I call it eating the meat and spitting out the bones. If it doesn't apply to you, then move on.

    In the beginning of my time on MFP I felt very much like people made it too simple by stating CICO. To the point where it really irritated me. But after using this for more then a year, watching, reading, and experimenting, I can conclusively say, yep, it's CICO. I've had to adjust my CICO for some health issues that others may not have, but it has still ended up being CICO. I may have other issues with health advice given on this site, but CICO still works, no matter what.
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