"You can eat whaver you want, as long as you eat at a deficit" is true, but it's garbage advice.

dfwesq · March 2017

Tacklewasher wrote: »

Quick comment for @dfwesq Like you, I've moderated board elsewhere. But there is a different "feel" here when it comes to new posters. Anywhere else I've posted, people who come to a board lurk first to get a feel for what the board is like, and that simply doesn't happen here. I've no idea why or maybe the boards I participate in are different and this is the norm. For example, given the number of new people who come in asking about ACV without doing a single search first, is astounding. Now they all come here after seeing it somewhere (Facebook it seems), buying it, starting to drink it and then come looking for people who are doing the same. A quick search will very quickly tell them how useless it is, and how it is not taken seriously here. But they don't even do that basic search. I admit it astounds me. But, as per the rules here, that is acceptable. And it is considered mean to ask them to do a search.

Now, when I started, I lurked. For a fair bit. Fortunately, what I saw was people posting to research, challenging those who were expressing an unfounded opinion as fact and generally trying to be reasoned and rational in their approach (talking most veterans here). I saw Dr. Oz essentially ridiculed and most diet fads called just that. In other words, I knew I would fit in just fine and started learning, then posting.

How, or why was it different for your?

I did look through the boards quite a bit, and read through long series of posts without posting. I guess basically it's different for me than for veterans because I am currently a newbie here, so I know the effect that posts have on new people who are reading them. I'm just giving that perspective. Several other relatively new members have made similar comments to mine (ETA: I just reviewed the discussion and I count at least 5), so I know I'm not the only one. I'm genuinely trying to be helpful and give a perspective that people may not have thought about since they haven't been in our shoes for a while. I hope that answers the question and is helpful.

lemurcat12 · March 2017

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

show previous quotes

WinoGelato wrote: »

Z_I_L_L_A wrote: »

ninerbuff wrote: »

jdb3388 wrote: »

People don't want to eat 1 slice of pizza, or a 1/4 of a plate of Loco Rice, or 7 chili cheese fries. They want to have a meal. If you eat the "right amount" of junk food to stay within your calorie limits, you're going to be starving to death and it's going to cause you to eat more. Eating food that doesn't taste as good as what you want is much better than satisfying a craving and then derailing later because you were so hungry you caved. There are a few people around here who have done their time, lost their weight, and they are in good shape. These people give advice from the "look at me, I lost a ton of weight so I know what I'm doing" stand point, but seem to have forgotten what it was like to ACTUALLY live as a fat person. So when someone tells you you can have junk food, don't listen to them, not because they are lying to you - they aren't, it's true - but because the advice isn't helpful in practice.

Really? I have success rates with ALL my clients and I don't preach eating "clean" at all. In fact, I do tell them to eat whatever they like AS LONG AS they don't exceed the calorie intake set for them. Do you know why people fail at diets? Because they usually are restricted from eating things they actually like. If one LEARNS how to control how much of something like eat, then the chances are higher that they will adhere to that habitual behavior.
Sorry if you can't do it, but that's an issue you deal with that you have to fix. Unless you have some actual peer reviewed clinical study that one CAN'T be taught moderation, you're just opining what you believe.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

I scratch my head when you say eat what you want.....and then show what experience you have for 30 years in nutrition.
I'm not a know it all, don't claim anything. Just kinda seemed strange, with all the bad food's out there. All the preservatives and crap they put in food now days. Maybe it's a 2 step process, lose weight by eating your favorite foods at less calories then maybe changing over to clean later on after you lose the weight.

How specifically do preservatives make food "bad"? Isn't that kind of the point of preservatives, to keep food from going bad?

But seriously - eating clean is not a requirement for weight loss, or for overall health. There are plenty of nutrient dense processed foods with preservatives that can be incorporated into the context of a healthy diet. Additionally, eating "junk" food in moderation does not make a person unhealthy. What I think @ninerbuff has described about his approach, particularly with overweight and obese clients, is that simply losing weight, regardless of the types of foods one eats while losing, improves overall health. Then from there, it is possible to become more health and nutrition focused - but again, as has been said COUNTLESS times in this thread - telling someone they can eat what they want and still lose does not mean that they should eat nothing but junk food. Presuming that someone plans to eat nothing but junk food, simply because a personal trainer, or someone on the MFP boards tells them it is ok - is a strange assumption to make about someone.

Preservatives are chemicals to make your food last longer. This is not natural. Food should spoil when it spoils.

Under this theory, I hope you live in a warm climate or don't eat produce in the winter or early spring (like now), as that's not natural. I had broccoli with my breakfast today, and some broccolini at lunch (among other things, like red peppers and onions that would be equally problematic), and those foods of course would not "naturally" be available in Chicago on March 22.

Neither would my feta cheese that I also had with my omelet -- human intervention is required for cheese-making.

Then again, pretty sure it's not "natural" that I am typing on a computer or that this city even exists.

karahm78 · March 2017

I've been around MFP for years, and I've gained and lost weight more than once.... I have lurked pretty much daily in the forums but I don't post much. I naturally tend to be one of those people that "fall off the wagon" the first day my calories are in the red, "screw it, I've already blown it so I'm gonna eat everything in sight". Then I quit logging and then come back to MFP to lose the same pounds that I've gained. NOT a good cycle.

I have learned the hard way through trial and error, that coming to embrace moderation and not restricting myself to the point that one day/meal will throw me off the wagon is NOT garbage advice. I have to eat less overall that I burn, simple enough. I learned the hard way that making better choices most of the time makes me more satiated, have some fiber/protein (and avocados), but make room for what I enjoy as well. The veteran posters here were right, and I just needed to embrace what I have read over the years and maybe as I get a little older a little more wisdom and been there, done that.

Friday night we went out for Thai food, I had some edamame and a regular entrée, ate a little of the rice but not the whole bowl. Saturday afternoon had sushi, and for dinner I had a huge pita with cucumber/tomato salad. Logged it all and stayed under my calories (I eat half of my Fitbit cals). Sunday I was up a pound (sodium bombs!). Years ago I would have freaked, now I drank some water and kept on... today, I am a pound less than I was before the weekend started. Eating food I enjoy and still losing? I'll take it!

Veterans, your posts are not for nothing.... lots of us are listening. Some of it is the school of hard knocks, but your work is appreciated. Because if I listened to people other than you fine folks, I would be drinking Herbalife and sleeping with an It Works wrap on. LOL The woo is everywhere!

Chef_Barbell · March 2017

dfwesq wrote: »

show previous quotes

Tacklewasher wrote: »

Quick comment for @dfwesq Like you, I've moderated board elsewhere. But there is a different "feel" here when it comes to new posters. Anywhere else I've posted, people who come to a board lurk first to get a feel for what the board is like, and that simply doesn't happen here. I've no idea why or maybe the boards I participate in are different and this is the norm. For example, given the number of new people who come in asking about ACV without doing a single search first, is astounding. Now they all come here after seeing it somewhere (Facebook it seems), buying it, starting to drink it and then come looking for people who are doing the same. A quick search will very quickly tell them how useless it is, and how it is not taken seriously here. But they don't even do that basic search. I admit it astounds me. But, as per the rules here, that is acceptable. And it is considered mean to ask them to do a search.

Now, when I started, I lurked. For a fair bit. Fortunately, what I saw was people posting to research, challenging those who were expressing an unfounded opinion as fact and generally trying to be reasoned and rational in their approach (talking most veterans here). I saw Dr. Oz essentially ridiculed and most diet fads called just that. In other words, I knew I would fit in just fine and started learning, then posting.

How, or why was it different for your?

I did look through the boards quite a bit, and read through long series of posts without posting. I guess basically it's different for me than for veterans because I am currently a newbie here, so I know the effect that posts have on new people who are reading them. I'm just giving that perspective. Several other relatively new members have made similar comments to mine, so I know I'm not the only one. I'm genuinely trying to be helpful and give a perspective that people may not have thought about since they haven't been in our shoes for a while. I hope that answers the question and is helpful.

I don't know about anyone else but if I come to a message board and I don't like the environment, I simply wouldn't participate. You can use this site without the forums. Also there are other sites out there that are more hold your hands, kumbaya, than this one. I cannot imagine going to let's just say a Harley forum and preach about the use of cars and then call everyone mean for not agreeing with me.

kshama2001 · March 2017

kimny72 wrote: »

show previous quotes

dfwesq wrote: »

leanjogreen18 wrote: »

dfwesq wrote: »

They need to change what they eat - not just how much - and to some extent they need to change their lifestyle too, to make it sustainable. So "eat whatever you want" isn't really helpful advice for those people.

Respectfully the bolded is kinda incomplete advice as well isn't it? What changes do I need to make? What foods should I eat? Can I eat nothing but Kale? See what I'm saying?

Not really, because it's not advice. There's a difference between my saying that a group of people needs to change their eating habits and me replying to someone who's asking a question about whether they need to eat less fast food. The person who asked a question was asking for guidance, and got it, which sounds a lot more like advice. That is why I gave the example I did, to give an example of one situation where that advice is sometimes given.

Okay, so help us out then. A newbie starts a thread and says "I really need to lose weight, but I really love carbs so I'm stuck! Help!!!" My response would be - Hey OP, you don't HAVE to go low carb, you just need to hit your calorie goal, you can eat whatever food you want!" This I guess is garbage incomplete advice. So could you please tell me what we are supposed to say, and keep in mind there are HUNDREDS of threads started every day.

lizery wrote: »

Well, you know - you don't *have* to respond, but if you do then it's helpful to qualify your answers with something like 'you don't have to not eat anything made of carbohydrates ... losing weight depends on making sure you consume less energy than you expend even if a some of those calories come from simple and complex carbs (sugars. fruits, veggies,breads, rice etc). Are you wanting to restrict carbs because you know you tend to overeat with this kind of food? If so, can you identify why ... and would to rather limit your intake of *donuts/biscuits/whatever the kitten here* than cut it out? ... because you can still enjoy these things if you're willing and able to incorporate them in to a calorie controlled plan'

Or something.

Giving a short, vague, incomplete answer is often less helpful than not *helping* at all.

Agreed, especially with the bolded.

And Hey OP, you don't HAVE to go low carb, you just need to hit your calorie goal, you can eat whatever food you want would be, "garbage incomplete" advice for someone like me, when what I want to eat is 1500 calories of pizza or ice cream. Or pizza AND ice cream. It has taken a tremendous amount of work for me to get down to 480 calories of pizza or 300 calories of ice cream a serving. And these are not foods I can eat every week.

So saying "you can eat whatever food you want" without qualifying that this will likely not be in the amount and/or frequency you want, is indeed an incomplete answer.

Like dianethegeek, I keep a word doc for my answers to questions people ask all the time, and I appreciate posters like @lemurcat12 and @WinoGelato (and too many to mention) who take the time to give complete, nuanced, thoughtful answers to questions we hear over and over again.

lemurcat12 · March 2017

cwolfman13 wrote: »

show previous quotes

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

pinuplove wrote: »

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

kimny72 wrote: »

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

WinoGelato wrote: »

BlueSkyShoal wrote: »

Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.

I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."

Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)

What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.

To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.

Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?

YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.

Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?

Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".

And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.

I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.

WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...

Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.

'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'

If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.

Why does everyone need a nanny? Why can't people just use common sense and logic? None of this is particularly hard. Basic nutrition is pretty straight forward and common sense IMO.

So much this.

Why should we assume other people are going to run with the most ridiculous possible interpretation of what we say and ignore common sense entirely? Is it because you assume that someone who needs to lose weight is an idiot and can't possibly know a thing about nutrition?

janejellyroll · March 2017

kshama2001 wrote: »

show previous quotes

kimny72 wrote: »

dfwesq wrote: »

leanjogreen18 wrote: »

dfwesq wrote: »

They need to change what they eat - not just how much - and to some extent they need to change their lifestyle too, to make it sustainable. So "eat whatever you want" isn't really helpful advice for those people.

Respectfully the bolded is kinda incomplete advice as well isn't it? What changes do I need to make? What foods should I eat? Can I eat nothing but Kale? See what I'm saying?

Not really, because it's not advice. There's a difference between my saying that a group of people needs to change their eating habits and me replying to someone who's asking a question about whether they need to eat less fast food. The person who asked a question was asking for guidance, and got it, which sounds a lot more like advice. That is why I gave the example I did, to give an example of one situation where that advice is sometimes given.

Okay, so help us out then. A newbie starts a thread and says "I really need to lose weight, but I really love carbs so I'm stuck! Help!!!" My response would be - Hey OP, you don't HAVE to go low carb, you just need to hit your calorie goal, you can eat whatever food you want!" This I guess is garbage incomplete advice. So could you please tell me what we are supposed to say, and keep in mind there are HUNDREDS of threads started every day.

show previous quotes

lizery wrote: »

Well, you know - you don't *have* to respond, but if you do then it's helpful to qualify your answers with something like 'you don't have to not eat anything made of carbohydrates ... losing weight depends on making sure you consume less energy than you expend even if a some of those calories come from simple and complex carbs (sugars. fruits, veggies,breads, rice etc). Are you wanting to restrict carbs because you know you tend to overeat with this kind of food? If so, can you identify why ... and would to rather limit your intake of *donuts/biscuits/whatever the kitten here* than cut it out? ... because you can still enjoy these things if you're willing and able to incorporate them in to a calorie controlled plan'

Or something.

Giving a short, vague, incomplete answer is often less helpful than not *helping* at all.

Agreed, especially with the bolded.

And Hey OP, you don't HAVE to go low carb, you just need to hit your calorie goal, you can eat whatever food you want would be, "garbage incomplete" advice for someone like me, when what I want to eat is 1500 calories of pizza or ice cream. Or pizza AND ice cream. It has taken a tremendous amount of work for me to get down to 480 calories of pizza or 300 calories of ice cream a serving. And these are not foods I can eat every week.

So saying "you can eat whatever food you want" without qualifying that this will likely not be in the amount and/or frequency you want, is indeed an incomplete answer.

Like dianethegeek, I keep a word doc for my answers to questions people ask all the time, and I appreciate posters like @lemurcat12 and @WinoGelato (and too many to mention) who take the time to give complete, nuanced, thoughtful answers to questions we hear over and over again.

Serious question: if someone said you can eat what you'd like as long as you hit your calorie goal, you wouldn't understand pretty quickly that means it wouldn't be in the amount and frequency that you might have had before you began counting calories?

I mean, I know how many calories are in a scoop of ice cream and I know my calorie goal. It's pretty easy for me to figure out that a 4 scoop dish of ice cream isn't going to be a regular feature in my life.

If you're saying that we have many people who don't understand the relationship between portion size and calories consumed, then it makes sense that we would have to warn people that they can't have unlimited ice cream and hit their calorie goals. If you're saying that we're giving people too much credit for understanding this, maybe we should change how we phrase it.

lemurcat12 · March 2017

Chef_Barbell wrote: »

show previous quotes

pinuplove wrote: »

leanjogreen18 wrote: »

Just woke up and am now caught up...

1. No one #ragequit. You veterans changed my life. I'm not joking!
2. Eat what you want - read the collective thoughts in the thread, be sensible, and it doesn't mean what some of you are projecting it to mean.
3. Breastfeed, natural childbirth (2), co-sleeping but Huggies:) - 30 years ago no metals yet:(

Wow what a thread! Did I miss anything?

You pretty much captured it. I'm just over here eating my garbage leftover Chinese takeout and waiting to see what else unfolds!

I'm going to have 7 chili cheese fries for dinner tonight.

Who said this thread isn't inspiring! ;-)

AntoinetteAngus · March 2017

pinuplove wrote: »

show previous quotes

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

pinuplove wrote: »

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

kimny72 wrote: »

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

WinoGelato wrote: »

BlueSkyShoal wrote: »

Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.

I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."

Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)

What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.

To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.

Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?

YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.

Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?

Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".

And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.

I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.

WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...

Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.

'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'

If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.

Oh sweet kittens! This thread is making my head hurt There is a plethora, an absolute cornucopia, an OVERABUNDANCE, of information about what people here do, don't, sometimes, always, never, only on the full moon, eat. They're under no obligation to list it in every post.

They are obligated to speak truth and stop insinuating WHATEVER...it doesn't have to be a list...

cmtigger · March 2017

Z_I_L_L_A wrote: »

I just want a triple whopper with bacon and cheese but I saw that video where it sat on a shelf for a long time without spoiling and the fries lasted a year without changing at all.

Yes, if you let something dehydrate it often will look the same, at least on camera.

geneticsteacher · March 2017

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

show previous quotes

geneticsteacher wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

SpotLighttt wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

savithny wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

Preservatives are chemicals to make your food last longer. This is not natural. Food should spoil when it spoils. You should not be injecting it with stuff to make it last longer.

So glad you clarified the following because most people tend to leave it at 'you can eat WHATEVER you want' - 'telling someone they can eat what they want and still lose does not mean that they should eat nothing but junk food'

So your definition of bad is "anything non-natural"?

Because the question is how do preservatives make food "bad" -- if the argument is that the non-natural is bad, what is the justification for that?

And does this apply just to food or to everything else in our lives as well?

The most common, oldest food preservative? Is just plain salt.

Also, the oldest form of food preservation? Is controlled spoilage. Using salt.

(says the person with the basement full of all-natural, organic veggies being carefully curated while they selectively spoil in jars full of saltwater. I love pickling things).

Yep, pickling, salting, drying, freezing, fermenting -- all ways to preserve food. All are non-natural (well--fermentation happens in nature, but we do a more controlled version).

Using "non-natural" as an argument that something is bad doesn't make sense to me.

what? Wow.

I take it you disagree, but these are all human innovations to make food last longer, something you said above wasn't natural.

Food should spoil when it spoils, right?

Food preservation techniques are nearly as old as humans. It is only in our present modern society that we can go to the store and buy nothing but fresh foods if we so desire. And I don't. I prefer to buy local, in-season produce and canned/frozen if not in season.

Food preservation techniques work by inactivating the enzymes naturally found in food, thus slowing down degradation of the food. This is done by chemical (salt, vinegar, other chemical preservatives) or mechanical (freezing, canning, drying) means. It does NOT change the original chemical makeup of the food other than extracting water and, in some cases, degradation of water-soluble vitamins.

Simply not true...I think in the beginning of time we used to use natural forms of preservation but one only needs to look at their pantry to find an abundance of chemical ones.

Harmful effect of preservatives; There are certain harmful
effects of using chemicals for preservation such as ;Sulfites are
common preservatives used in various fruits,may have side
effects in form of headaches, palpitations, allergies, and even
cancer.

Nitrates and Nitrites: These additives are used as curing
agents in meat products.it gets converted into nitrous acid when
consumed and is suspected of causing stomach cancer

Benzoates are used in foods as antimicrobial preservatives,
and have been suspected to cause allergies, asthma and skin
rashes.

Sorbates/sorbic acid are added to foods as antimicrobial
preservatives. Reactions to sorbates are rare, but have included
reports of urticaria and contact dermatitis [7].

http://www.ijsrp.org/research-paper-0415/ijsrp-p4014.pdf

Okay, some people may have rare side effects to preservatives. Does this mean none of us should eat them? The only preservative proven to have carcinogenic effects is nitrates/nitrites. It is advised that these be eaten in moderation.

Most preserved (canned, frozen, dehydrated, pickled, sugared) have none of the additives you cited.

pinuplove · March 2017

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

show previous quotes

pinuplove wrote: »

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

pinuplove wrote: »

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

kimny72 wrote: »

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

WinoGelato wrote: »

BlueSkyShoal wrote: »

Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.

I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."

Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)

What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.

To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.

Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?

YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.

Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?

Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".

And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.

I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.

WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...

Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.

'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'

If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.

Oh sweet kittens! This thread is making my head hurt There is a plethora, an absolute cornucopia, an OVERABUNDANCE, of information about what people here do, don't, sometimes, always, never, only on the full moon, eat. They're under no obligation to list it in every post.

They are obligated to speak truth and stop insinuating WHATEVER...it doesn't have to be a list...

Actually, they're not.

AntoinetteAngus · March 2017

diannethegeek wrote: »

show previous quotes

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

pinuplove wrote: »

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

kimny72 wrote: »

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

WinoGelato wrote: »

BlueSkyShoal wrote: »

Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.

I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."

Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)

What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.

To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.

Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?

YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.

Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?

Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".

And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.

I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.

WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...

Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.

'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'

If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.

Why is it so important to you to control how others speak of their own experiences?

It's not about control it's about being responsible and not blankly using the word 'WHATEVER.'

janejellyroll · March 2017

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

show previous quotes

pinuplove wrote: »

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

pinuplove wrote: »

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

kimny72 wrote: »

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

WinoGelato wrote: »

BlueSkyShoal wrote: »

Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.

I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."

Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)

What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.

To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.

Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?

YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.

Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?

Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".

And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.

I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.

WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...

Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.

'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'

If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.

Oh sweet kittens! This thread is making my head hurt There is a plethora, an absolute cornucopia, an OVERABUNDANCE, of information about what people here do, don't, sometimes, always, never, only on the full moon, eat. They're under no obligation to list it in every post.

They are obligated to speak truth and stop insinuating WHATEVER...it doesn't have to be a list...

"You can lose weight eating the foods you enjoy as long as you're in a calorie deficit" is the truth. You're asking for something else.

Tacklewasher · March 2017

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

show previous quotes

pinuplove wrote: »

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

pinuplove wrote: »

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

kimny72 wrote: »

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

WinoGelato wrote: »

BlueSkyShoal wrote: »

Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.

I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."

Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)

What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.

To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.

Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?

YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.

Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?

Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".

And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.

I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.

WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...

Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.

'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'

If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.

Oh sweet kittens! This thread is making my head hurt There is a plethora, an absolute cornucopia, an OVERABUNDANCE, of information about what people here do, don't, sometimes, always, never, only on the full moon, eat. They're under no obligation to list it in every post.

They are obligated to speak truth and stop insinuating WHATEVER...it doesn't have to be a list...

Nope. No they aren't. Posters here are under no OBLIGATION to do a damn thing. There are some rules in place that prevent posters from openly mocking, but there is no OBLIGATION to do anything.

kimny72 · March 2017

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

show previous quotes

pinuplove wrote: »

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

pinuplove wrote: »

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

kimny72 wrote: »

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

WinoGelato wrote: »

BlueSkyShoal wrote: »

Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.

I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."

Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)

What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.

To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.

Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?

YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.

Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?

Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".

And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.

I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.

WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...

Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.

'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'

If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.

Oh sweet kittens! This thread is making my head hurt There is a plethora, an absolute cornucopia, an OVERABUNDANCE, of information about what people here do, don't, sometimes, always, never, only on the full moon, eat. They're under no obligation to list it in every post.

They are obligated to speak truth and stop insinuating WHATEVER...it doesn't have to be a list...

I really think you don't understand the concept of a public forum. We are under the OBLIGATION to follow the forum rules, that's it. I am entitled to post whatever advice I choose, and you can feel free to post whatever advice you choose.

Need2Exerc1se · March 2017

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

show previous quotes

pinuplove wrote: »

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

pinuplove wrote: »

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

kimny72 wrote: »

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

WinoGelato wrote: »

BlueSkyShoal wrote: »

Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.

I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."

Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)

What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.

To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.

Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?

YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.

Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?

Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".

And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.

I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.

WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...

Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.

'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'

If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.

Oh sweet kittens! This thread is making my head hurt There is a plethora, an absolute cornucopia, an OVERABUNDANCE, of information about what people here do, don't, sometimes, always, never, only on the full moon, eat. They're under no obligation to list it in every post.

They are obligated to speak truth and stop insinuating WHATEVER...it doesn't have to be a list...

Obligated?? By whom/what? Saying is not insinuating.

Chef_Barbell · March 2017

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

show previous quotes

diannethegeek wrote: »

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

pinuplove wrote: »

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

kimny72 wrote: »

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

WinoGelato wrote: »

BlueSkyShoal wrote: »

Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.

I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."

Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)

What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.

To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.

Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?

YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.

Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?

Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".

And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.

I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.

WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...

Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.

'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'

If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.

Why is it so important to you to control how others speak of their own experiences?

It's not about control it's about being responsible and not blankly using the word 'WHATEVER.'

Responsible for what? The person receiving the advice is responsible for doing the research to see what works for them, not blindly follow whatever some internet stranger says. No one here is obligated to answer in any specific type of way.

sardelsa · March 2017

I'm sure this has been mentioned, but this a free internet forum.. so you are welcome to take or leave the advice here. And that in the end is your responsibility as an adult.
Sometimes people are going to complain about anything you write.. they are talking about what worked for them and many others. Will it work for you? Maybe, maybe not. There are people that aren't happy when posters jump to tell the OP to lift weights if they want to change their body composition. Ok well if you don't like the advice, don't do it. I mean there are many ways to skin a cat, you take the info given and use it how you want it.. people that answer are just speaking from experience, research and most of them genuinely want to help.

Emily3907 · March 2017

karahm78 wrote: »

I've been around MFP for years, and I've gained and lost weight more than once.... I have lurked pretty much daily in the forums but I don't post much. I naturally tend to be one of those people that "fall off the wagon" the first day my calories are in the red, "screw it, I've already blown it so I'm gonna eat everything in sight". Then I quit logging and then come back to MFP to lose the same pounds that I've gained. NOT a good cycle.

I have learned the hard way through trial and error, that coming to embrace moderation and not restricting myself to the point that one day/meal will throw me off the wagon is NOT garbage advice. I have to eat less overall that I burn, simple enough. I learned the hard way that making better choices most of the time makes me more satiated, have some fiber/protein (and avocados), but make room for what I enjoy as well. The veteran posters here were right, and I just needed to embrace what I have read over the years and maybe as I get a little older a little more wisdom and been there, done that.

Friday night we went out for Thai food, I had some edamame and a regular entrée, ate a little of the rice but not the whole bowl. Saturday afternoon had sushi, and for dinner I had a huge pita with cucumber/tomato salad. Sunday I was up a pound (sodium bombs!). Years ago I would have freaked, now I drank some water and kept on... today, I am a pound less than I was before the weekend started. Eating food I enjoy and still losing? I'll take it!

Veterans, your posts are not for nothing.... lots of us are listening. Some of it is the school of hard knocks, but your work is appreciated. Because if I listened to people other than you fine folks, I would be drinking Herbalife and sleeping with an It Works wrap on. LOL The woo is everywhere!

This is my experience exactly. Actually, some of the threads/veterans also made me realize I had some "food issues" that lead me to seeing a therapist. No one directly said I should see a therapist, but seeing this "moderation" mentality scared me and that was not a healthy way of thinking. I have done so many diets over the past 10 years, believed so much woo and it all really distorted my thinking about how to effectively lose weight and not be miserable. I believed I had to follow a certain set of "rules" or I was going to fail. Those "rules" were actually doing me more harm than good. It was not until I started following the moderation/non-restriction mentality that it started to actually click. I still have work to do and I still have a lot to lose, but I finally feel like I can lose the weight, keep it off and not be miserable in the process.

There are so many myths, misnomers and business driven claims out there regarding weight loss. It can make it hard to know what will work and it can also cause yo yo dieting, which can lead to food issues. Sometimes the simplest advice (no matter how blunt) and going back to the basics is the most effective way to approach weight loss.

For the record, I just made chocolate chip cookie dough. I plan to freeze the dough, so I can pull out individual servings over the next six weeks. In the past, I would have baked all the cookies today and they probably would have been gone by the weekend.

lemurcat12 · March 2017

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

show previous quotes

pinuplove wrote: »

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

pinuplove wrote: »

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

kimny72 wrote: »

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

WinoGelato wrote: »

BlueSkyShoal wrote: »

Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.

I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."

Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)

What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.

To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.

Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?

YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.

Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?

Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".

And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.

I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.

WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...

Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.

'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'

If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.

Oh sweet kittens! This thread is making my head hurt There is a plethora, an absolute cornucopia, an OVERABUNDANCE, of information about what people here do, don't, sometimes, always, never, only on the full moon, eat. They're under no obligation to list it in every post.

They are obligated to speak truth and stop insinuating WHATEVER...it doesn't have to be a list...

Truth: my TDEE with exercise is around 2100 currently. If I eat 1600 calories, I will lose weight, no matter what those 1600 calories are made up of. That's true.

Therefore, I eat what I want within my calories. That is also true.

I don't believe that I need to cut out any foods or eat any special diet foods, and consider claims that I do to be bunk. That is also true.

You are suggesting that these things are not true, and I would like to know why.

Of course, I ALSO usually note that I consider certain foods more filling than others (although it varies by person -- I don't find fat filling and many do), so it's worth experimenting with that. And I will say that I personally consider nutrition important and interesting, but of course you need not cut out "junk" food to eat a healthy diet, that's a common misunderstanding.

But even if I don't add those things because I think others have adequately covered it, the first part of my post is STILL true.

It's worth understanding the truth, which is that calories are what matter for weight loss. Do I think you SHOULD eat only Twinkies or whatever dumb example people come up with (yeah, I know about the Twinkie guy)? No, but I also think if you are on MFP you are an adult and should be assumed not to be so lacking in common sense or have such poor wants that you would want to do that.

Again, if you think people will WANT to eat an all junk food diet, why would something from me (you know, that's really not ideal for health) affect that? Did you WANT to eat an all junk food diet at some point? Because I never did, even when fat, and I think the idea that that's what fat people want is pretty insulting.

MontyMuttland · March 2017

"For things to change, you have to change." (Jim Rohn, 1930-2009).
This is a fundamental truth and it applies to anyone trying to lose weight and keep it off every bit as much as the formula stating that to lose weight you must burn more calories every day than you consume.
I was obese for most of my adult life, a serial yo-yo dieter who would try this and that diet, lose some weight and then put it back on again plus more.
The reason I kept failing is actually very simple. I didn't change. I just did what the diets said I had to do, but they didn't teach me anything. I didn't learn any new eating habits.
And this is what the OP is getting at with his post.
If you tell an obese person they can eat what they want providing they stay under their daily calorie allocation, you are just sugar-coating the truth to make it easier to swallow.
The simple truth is, if you eat nutritionally poor foods as part of a calorie controlled eating plan, then the weight you lose won't just be fat. Sure, you will lose some fat, but some of the weight you will lose is going to be the good part of your body (your muscle tissue, your organs, your skeleton, etc).
That is the price you pay for eating nutritionally poor foods. They don't contain enough good stuff to maintain the important parts of your body.
If you are already eating less food to stay under your calorie allocation, then it's even more important than ever that the food you eat had high nutritional value - what the hell else is your body going to use to sustain itself?
So here is the real deal: if you want to lose weight and keep it off, better start learning some new eating habits.
New eating habits means making food choices that are nutrient rich.
Does it mean you can never eat another burger? Of course not, but you'd do far better learning how to make a decent burger yourself rather than eating the total non-food they serve at fast food outlets.
"For things to change, you have to change."
Embrace it, do it.
During 2016 I lost 9 stone (126lb) and now I'm happily maintaining my weight under 11stone.
I did that by changing my relationship with food and learning new eating habits.
I don't eat pizza anymore. Why? Because it's nutritionally poor food.
But I make a mean burger meal, a steak meal and a spaghetti bolognese meal all for less than 500 calories each.
I learned how to eat well whilst consuming less.
That's what this is about, and the rest can be summed up like this:
"Suck it up or stay fat!".

Chef_Barbell · March 2017

MontyMuttland wrote: »

"For things to change, you have to change." (Jim Rohn, 1930-2009).
This is a fundamental truth and it applies to anyone trying to lose weight and keep it off every bit as much as the formula stating that to lose weight you must burn more calories every day than you consume.
I was obese for most of my adult life, a serial yo-yo dieter who would try this and that diet, lose some weight and then put it back on again plus more.
The reason I kept failing is actually very simple. I didn't change. I just did what the diets said I had to do, but they didn't teach me anything. I didn't learn any new eating habits.
And this is what the OP is getting at with his post.
If you tell an obese person they can eat what they want providing they stay under their daily calorie allocation, you are just sugar-coating the truth to make it easier to swallow.
The simple truth is, if you eat nutritionally poor foods as part of a calorie controlled eating plan, then the weight you lose won't just be fat. Sure, you will lose some fat, but some of the weight you will lose is going to be the good part of your body (your muscle tissue, your organs, your skeleton, etc).
That is the price you pay for eating nutritionally poor foods. They don't contain enough good stuff to maintain the important parts of your body.
If you are already eating less food to stay under your calorie allocation, then it's even more important than ever that the food you eat had high nutritional value - what the hell else is your body going to use to sustain itself?
So here is the real deal: if you want to lose weight and keep it off, better start learning some new eating habits.
New eating habits means making food choices that are nutrient rich.
Does it mean you can never eat another burger? Of course not, but you'd do far better learning how to make a decent burger yourself rather than eating the total non-food they serve at fast food outlets.
"For things to change, you have to change."
Embrace it, do it.
During 2016 I lost 9 stone (126lb) and now I'm happily maintaining my weight under 11stone.
I did that by changing my relationship with food and learning new eating habits.
I don't eat pizza anymore. Why? Because it's nutritionally poor food.
But I make a mean burger meal, a steak meal and a spaghetti bolognese meal all for less than 500 calories each.
I learned how to eat well whilst consuming less.
That's what this is about, and the rest can be summed up like this:
"Suck it up or stay fat!".

I don't know how things are done elsewhere but they serve food in fast food restaurants here.

How is pizza nutritionally poor? It's just bread, sauce, cheese and you can add veggies and make your own. I never understand this argument.

Z_I_L_L_A · March 2017

I'm have salad with raw squash, tomatoes, with a tiny tear drop of BV dressing only so I can eat bad later.

janejellyroll · March 2017

MontyMuttland wrote: »

"For things to change, you have to change." (Jim Rohn, 1930-2009).
This is a fundamental truth and it applies to anyone trying to lose weight and keep it off every bit as much as the formula stating that to lose weight you must burn more calories every day than you consume.
I was obese for most of my adult life, a serial yo-yo dieter who would try this and that diet, lose some weight and then put it back on again plus more.
The reason I kept failing is actually very simple. I didn't change. I just did what the diets said I had to do, but they didn't teach me anything. I didn't learn any new eating habits.
And this is what the OP is getting at with his post.
If you tell an obese person they can eat what they want providing they stay under their daily calorie allocation, you are just sugar-coating the truth to make it easier to swallow.
The simple truth is, if you eat nutritionally poor foods as part of a calorie controlled eating plan, then the weight you lose won't just be fat. Sure, you will lose some fat, but some of the weight you will lose is going to be the good part of your body (your muscle tissue, your organs, your skeleton, etc).
That is the price you pay for eating nutritionally poor foods. They don't contain enough good stuff to maintain the important parts of your body.
If you are already eating less food to stay under your calorie allocation, then it's even more important than ever that the food you eat had high nutritional value - what the hell else is your body going to use to sustain itself?
So here is the real deal: if you want to lose weight and keep it off, better start learning some new eating habits.
New eating habits means making food choices that are nutrient rich.
Does it mean you can never eat another burger? Of course not, but you'd do far better learning how to make a decent burger yourself rather than eating the total non-food they serve at fast food outlets.
"For things to change, you have to change."
Embrace it, do it.
During 2016 I lost 9 stone (126lb) and now I'm happily maintaining my weight under 11stone.
I did that by changing my relationship with food and learning new eating habits.
I don't eat pizza anymore. Why? Because it's nutritionally poor food.
But I make a mean burger meal, a steak meal and a spaghetti bolognese meal all for less than 500 calories each.
I learned how to eat well whilst consuming less.
That's what this is about, and the rest can be summed up like this:
"Suck it up or stay fat!".

I'm glad you found a way that works for you and nobody is required to eat pizza, but I don't understand how pizza can categorically be declared a "nutritionally poor food." It's flour, tomatoes, maybe some vegetables, meat, and cheese.

Why is spaghetti bolognese okay, but pizza "nutritionally poor"? They're literally just different combinations of the same ingredients -- flour, tomatoes, some protein.

It's stuff like this that made lasting weight loss seem so impossible to me for years -- because I was convinced that certain foods were off-limits for mysterious and arcane reasons.

Pizza is just calories and macro/micronutrients like any other food. Some days it fits in my calories, other days it doesn't (because I'm choosing other things that day).

Emily3907 · March 2017

Chef_Barbell wrote: »

show previous quotes

MontyMuttland wrote: »

"For things to change, you have to change." (Jim Rohn, 1930-2009).
This is a fundamental truth and it applies to anyone trying to lose weight and keep it off every bit as much as the formula stating that to lose weight you must burn more calories every day than you consume.
I was obese for most of my adult life, a serial yo-yo dieter who would try this and that diet, lose some weight and then put it back on again plus more.
The reason I kept failing is actually very simple. I didn't change. I just did what the diets said I had to do, but they didn't teach me anything. I didn't learn any new eating habits.
And this is what the OP is getting at with his post.
If you tell an obese person they can eat what they want providing they stay under their daily calorie allocation, you are just sugar-coating the truth to make it easier to swallow.
The simple truth is, if you eat nutritionally poor foods as part of a calorie controlled eating plan, then the weight you lose won't just be fat. Sure, you will lose some fat, but some of the weight you will lose is going to be the good part of your body (your muscle tissue, your organs, your skeleton, etc).
That is the price you pay for eating nutritionally poor foods. They don't contain enough good stuff to maintain the important parts of your body.
If you are already eating less food to stay under your calorie allocation, then it's even more important than ever that the food you eat had high nutritional value - what the hell else is your body going to use to sustain itself?
So here is the real deal: if you want to lose weight and keep it off, better start learning some new eating habits.
New eating habits means making food choices that are nutrient rich.
Does it mean you can never eat another burger? Of course not, but you'd do far better learning how to make a decent burger yourself rather than eating the total non-food they serve at fast food outlets.
"For things to change, you have to change."
Embrace it, do it.
During 2016 I lost 9 stone (126lb) and now I'm happily maintaining my weight under 11stone.
I did that by changing my relationship with food and learning new eating habits.
I don't eat pizza anymore. Why? Because it's nutritionally poor food.
But I make a mean burger meal, a steak meal and a spaghetti bolognese meal all for less than 500 calories each.
I learned how to eat well whilst consuming less.
That's what this is about, and the rest can be summed up like this:
"Suck it up or stay fat!".

I don't know how things are done elsewhere but they serve food in fast food restaurants here.

How is pizza nutritionally poor? It's just bread, sauce, cheese and you can add veggies and make your own. I never understand this argument.

Agreed. My homemade pepperoni pizza has 524 cals, 51 carbs, 25 fat and 27 protein in 2 slices. I consider that a pretty good macro ratio. Add veggies to that, even better.

Need2Exerc1se · March 2017

Chef_Barbell wrote: »

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MontyMuttland wrote: »

"For things to change, you have to change." (Jim Rohn, 1930-2009).
This is a fundamental truth and it applies to anyone trying to lose weight and keep it off every bit as much as the formula stating that to lose weight you must burn more calories every day than you consume.
I was obese for most of my adult life, a serial yo-yo dieter who would try this and that diet, lose some weight and then put it back on again plus more.
The reason I kept failing is actually very simple. I didn't change. I just did what the diets said I had to do, but they didn't teach me anything. I didn't learn any new eating habits.
And this is what the OP is getting at with his post.
If you tell an obese person they can eat what they want providing they stay under their daily calorie allocation, you are just sugar-coating the truth to make it easier to swallow.
The simple truth is, if you eat nutritionally poor foods as part of a calorie controlled eating plan, then the weight you lose won't just be fat. Sure, you will lose some fat, but some of the weight you will lose is going to be the good part of your body (your muscle tissue, your organs, your skeleton, etc).
That is the price you pay for eating nutritionally poor foods. They don't contain enough good stuff to maintain the important parts of your body.
If you are already eating less food to stay under your calorie allocation, then it's even more important than ever that the food you eat had high nutritional value - what the hell else is your body going to use to sustain itself?
So here is the real deal: if you want to lose weight and keep it off, better start learning some new eating habits.
New eating habits means making food choices that are nutrient rich.
Does it mean you can never eat another burger? Of course not, but you'd do far better learning how to make a decent burger yourself rather than eating the total non-food they serve at fast food outlets.
"For things to change, you have to change."
Embrace it, do it.
During 2016 I lost 9 stone (126lb) and now I'm happily maintaining my weight under 11stone.
I did that by changing my relationship with food and learning new eating habits.
I don't eat pizza anymore. Why? Because it's nutritionally poor food.
But I make a mean burger meal, a steak meal and a spaghetti bolognese meal all for less than 500 calories each.
I learned how to eat well whilst consuming less.
That's what this is about, and the rest can be summed up like this:
"Suck it up or stay fat!".

I don't know how things are done elsewhere but they serve food in fast food restaurants here.

How is pizza nutritionally poor? It's just bread, sauce, cheese and you can add veggies and make your own. I never understand this argument.

I agree re: pizza. Pizza is more a method of cooking than a specific food. It's kind of like saying soup or casseroles are nutritionally poor. The word 'pizza' does nothing to convey what was actually eaten.

slim1156 · March 2017

"You can lose weight eating the foods you enjoy as long as you're in a calorie deficit" this is absolutely true. this statement makes no reference to health or anything else other than losing weight. if you want to eat your daily allowance of calories in hot fudge sundaes every day, you will lose weight. if you choose to eat nothing, ever, other than bacon, you will lose weight. will you be healthy? probably not so much. will you be happy? unlikely. will you lose weight? ABSOLUTELY!!!! as far as weight loss goes, it is all about calorie deficit.

geneticsteacher · March 2017

slim1156 wrote: »

"You can lose weight eating the foods you enjoy as long as you're in a calorie deficit" this is absolutely true. this statement makes no reference to health or anything else other than losing weight. if you want to eat your daily allowance of calories in hot fudge sundaes every day, you will lose weight. if you choose to eat nothing, ever, other than bacon, you will lose weight. will you be healthy? probably not so much. will you be happy? unlikely. will you lose weight? ABSOLUTELY!!!! as far as weight loss goes, it is all about calorie deficit.

This is so true, but I am finding out more and more that a lot of people have a lot of misconceptions about nutrition and diet.

leanjogreen18 · March 2017

geneticsteacher wrote: »

show previous quotes

slim1156 wrote: »

"You can lose weight eating the foods you enjoy as long as you're in a calorie deficit" this is absolutely true. this statement makes no reference to health or anything else other than losing weight. if you want to eat your daily allowance of calories in hot fudge sundaes every day, you will lose weight. if you choose to eat nothing, ever, other than bacon, you will lose weight. will you be healthy? probably not so much. will you be happy? unlikely. will you lose weight? ABSOLUTELY!!!! as far as weight loss goes, it is all about calorie deficit.

This is so true, but I am finding out more and more that a lot of people have a lot of misconceptions about nutrition and diet.

I think most people have a basic understanding of nutrition. They may not like it but they know.

"You can eat whaver you want, as long as you eat at a deficit" is true, but it's garbage advice.

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