March 2017 Running Challenge
Replies
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KatieJane83 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »Yes, I know Mar. is almost over, but trying to decide on a goal for Apr. I've already exceeded my Mar. goal of 60 miles. After the 4/1 race, my plan is to switch goals. Currently, my primary goal is to lose excess fat and secondary goal is to be able to complete that race and not be last (should not be a problem).
Starting 4/2, my primary goal is still to lose excess fat and secondary goal is to lose as much fat as possible before 4/14. The reason 4/14 is that is when I am scheduled for a Dexa, RMR, and VO2 Max. It's my first time getting such tests and I would like the BF % to be as close as possible to my goal BF %. It's a long and detailed explanation as to how I came up with this, but my estimate is that I need to run 13.8 miles per day from 4/2 - 4/13 in order to achieve that much fat loss that quickly (and also not to eat back those calories). That is way above current mileage, and would be about 2 hrs. per day. Alternatively, I could cut back calories and run 1 hr. per day.... that is a mileage that is more in line with where I've been on running days. The difference is not eating back exercise calories and doing something similar to alternate day fasting... and not taking a rest day during that time unless I make it up (which I can do on weekends).
Anyway, I've been thinking about this and making calculations for the last week to figure out mileage for the first half of April; and it looks pretty aggressive. The other option is to accept I won't be at my target BF % by 4/14... but how much to scale back on that goal is the unknown.
I noticed no one has replied to this yet, and I am far from an expert, but this is my $.02, for whatever it's actually worth, lol. I personally would NOT focus on such an aggressive loss. I am currently also in the weight-loss camp right now, and have actually been concerned by how quickly I've been losing because I want to maintain my lean body mass to a healthy degree. When you lose really aggressively you can't just flip a switch that makes sure the loss is 100% purely body fat. I already do weight training twice a week, and in addition to it being for injury prevention with my running, it is also to hopefully maintain as much of my lean body mass as possible. When you lose too fast I think you risk losing too much of that lean body mass vs body fat. I say, keep it reasonable, take the first tests/scans for what they are, and then when you get them again you can use it as a comparison.
It's not really a 'switch' because it takes a long time to make the change (which I completed a long time ago), but I am fat adapted. So my primary source for skeletal muscle (and for exercise) is to oxidize fat. It's very different than the typical person who consumes a lot of carbohydrates and uses primarily glucose for energy. In those cases, protein (either dietary or muscle) will need to be broken down to create glucose and provide energy and replenish glycogen if the total diet is insufficient in carbohydrates and protein.
However, since I eat very low carb and the central nervous system / brain can't oxidize fat for energy (although it can use ketones), protein will need to be broken down to create glucose for brain function. I've done a fair amount of research and calculations to determine that I can spare muscle by consuming at least 157g / day of protein. I understand your point, but I think I've figured out how to minimize or prevent muscle loss and to cause my body to primarily use fat (dietary or stored) for energy. By limiting dietary fat intake in addition to having muscles that primarily oxidize fat for energy, I'm making those muscles have to turn to body fat. If I were to run for 2 hours at a sub-maximal exertion level, I should be able to oxidize 190g (0.42 lbs.) of fat (based on a Volek and Phinney study finding fat adapted endurance athletes oxidized fat at 1.58g/min +/-0.14 at sub-maximal exertion... 64% of max HR). That's just from exercise, not from RMR. If I consume only enough fat to reach my RMR (or slightly less), then I should be able to lose just over 5 lbs. between 4/2 - 4/13; which is about how much fat I'm estimating I need to lose. It's somewhat aggressive at just under 3 lbs. per week, but I believe it is possible.
What I am hoping is that I can lose enough between now and 4/2 to not require as much loss from 4/2 - 4/13. Potentially, I estimate that by 4/2, I could reduce the daily mileage to as low as 7.3 miles. And that is why I'm not sure what to make April's goal just yet. For those first 2 weeks, I will need somewhere between 7.3 and 13.8 miles per day in order to achieve my fat use goal. I may not make my April goal until 4/2 because of that unknown.1 -
3/1 6
3/2 4.5 + 6 x strength circuits
3/3 8.5
3/4 6.2 + 60' athletic conditioning
3/5 7.5 EZ pace
3/6 7.25
3/7 4.5 + 6 x strength circuits
3/8 7.3
3/9 4.5 + 6 x strength circuits
3/10 8.75
3/11 6.2 + 60' athletic conditioning
3/12 7 EZ
3/13 7.25 with 2 x 1 miles at 10k, 4x 800m @ 5k
3/14 4.5 + 6 x strength circuits
3/15 6.4 (HARD!)
3/16 4.5 + 6 x strength circuits
3/17 8.15 8 x supersets (1200m)
3/18 7.2 +60' athletic conditioning
3/19 7.5 + lovely hike in the mountains
3/20 4.5 + 6 x strength circuits
3/21 7.3 with 7x1000m @ 5k pace
3/22 7
3/23 4.5 + 6 x strength circuits
3/24 10
3/25 6 + 9 x strength circuits
3/26 7.5 slow and EZ
3/27 7.5 with 4 x 1 mile @ 5K pace
3/28 6.0 + 40' tabata class
184/175
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midwesterner85 wrote: »KatieJane83 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »Yes, I know Mar. is almost over, but trying to decide on a goal for Apr. I've already exceeded my Mar. goal of 60 miles. After the 4/1 race, my plan is to switch goals. Currently, my primary goal is to lose excess fat and secondary goal is to be able to complete that race and not be last (should not be a problem).
Starting 4/2, my primary goal is still to lose excess fat and secondary goal is to lose as much fat as possible before 4/14. The reason 4/14 is that is when I am scheduled for a Dexa, RMR, and VO2 Max. It's my first time getting such tests and I would like the BF % to be as close as possible to my goal BF %. It's a long and detailed explanation as to how I came up with this, but my estimate is that I need to run 13.8 miles per day from 4/2 - 4/13 in order to achieve that much fat loss that quickly (and also not to eat back those calories). That is way above current mileage, and would be about 2 hrs. per day. Alternatively, I could cut back calories and run 1 hr. per day.... that is a mileage that is more in line with where I've been on running days. The difference is not eating back exercise calories and doing something similar to alternate day fasting... and not taking a rest day during that time unless I make it up (which I can do on weekends).
Anyway, I've been thinking about this and making calculations for the last week to figure out mileage for the first half of April; and it looks pretty aggressive. The other option is to accept I won't be at my target BF % by 4/14... but how much to scale back on that goal is the unknown.
I noticed no one has replied to this yet, and I am far from an expert, but this is my $.02, for whatever it's actually worth, lol. I personally would NOT focus on such an aggressive loss. I am currently also in the weight-loss camp right now, and have actually been concerned by how quickly I've been losing because I want to maintain my lean body mass to a healthy degree. When you lose really aggressively you can't just flip a switch that makes sure the loss is 100% purely body fat. I already do weight training twice a week, and in addition to it being for injury prevention with my running, it is also to hopefully maintain as much of my lean body mass as possible. When you lose too fast I think you risk losing too much of that lean body mass vs body fat. I say, keep it reasonable, take the first tests/scans for what they are, and then when you get them again you can use it as a comparison.
It's not really a 'switch' because it takes a long time to make the change (which I completed a long time ago), but I am fat adapted. So my primary source for skeletal muscle (and for exercise) is to oxidize fat. It's very different than the typical person who consumes a lot of carbohydrates and uses primarily glucose for energy. In those cases, protein (either dietary or muscle) will need to be broken down to create glucose and provide energy and replenish glycogen if the total diet is insufficient in carbohydrates and protein.
However, since I eat very low carb and the central nervous system / brain can't oxidize fat for energy (although it can use ketones), protein will need to be broken down to create glucose for brain function. I've done a fair amount of research and calculations to determine that I can spare muscle by consuming at least 157g / day of protein. I understand your point, but I think I've figured out how to minimize or prevent muscle loss and to cause my body to primarily use fat (dietary or stored) for energy. By limiting dietary fat intake in addition to having muscles that primarily oxidize fat for energy, I'm making those muscles have to turn to body fat. If I were to run for 2 hours at a sub-maximal exertion level, I should be able to oxidize 190g (0.42 lbs.) of fat (based on a Volek and Phinney study finding fat adapted endurance athletes oxidized fat at 1.58g/min +/-0.14 at sub-maximal exertion... 64% of max HR). That's just from exercise, not from RMR. If I consume only enough fat to reach my RMR (or slightly less), then I should be able to lose just over 5 lbs. between 4/2 - 4/13; which is about how much fat I'm estimating I need to lose. It's somewhat aggressive at just under 3 lbs. per week, but I believe it is possible.
What I am hoping is that I can lose enough between now and 4/2 to not require as much loss from 4/2 - 4/13. Potentially, I estimate that by 4/2, I could reduce the daily mileage to as low as 7.3 miles. And that is why I'm not sure what to make April's goal just yet. For those first 2 weeks, I will need somewhere between 7.3 and 13.8 miles per day in order to achieve my fat use goal. I may not make my April goal until 4/2 because of that unknown.
Ah, very interesting, and yes, that definitely changes what kind of advice you would get. That is important information.
And it also reminded me that my friend shared a podcast with me the other day, with an author talking about the whole concept of training your body to recruit fat for energy, and how you can change the whole idea of needing to carbo-load before long races and such. I need to go figure out who it was who was talking so I can do some more research, lol.
ETA: Found it! The book is Primal Endurance by Mark Sisson. This was the podcast: artofmanliness.com/2016/06/06/podcast-207-primal-endurance-how-to-become-a-fat-burning-beast/0 -
KatieJane83 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »KatieJane83 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »Yes, I know Mar. is almost over, but trying to decide on a goal for Apr. I've already exceeded my Mar. goal of 60 miles. After the 4/1 race, my plan is to switch goals. Currently, my primary goal is to lose excess fat and secondary goal is to be able to complete that race and not be last (should not be a problem).
Starting 4/2, my primary goal is still to lose excess fat and secondary goal is to lose as much fat as possible before 4/14. The reason 4/14 is that is when I am scheduled for a Dexa, RMR, and VO2 Max. It's my first time getting such tests and I would like the BF % to be as close as possible to my goal BF %. It's a long and detailed explanation as to how I came up with this, but my estimate is that I need to run 13.8 miles per day from 4/2 - 4/13 in order to achieve that much fat loss that quickly (and also not to eat back those calories). That is way above current mileage, and would be about 2 hrs. per day. Alternatively, I could cut back calories and run 1 hr. per day.... that is a mileage that is more in line with where I've been on running days. The difference is not eating back exercise calories and doing something similar to alternate day fasting... and not taking a rest day during that time unless I make it up (which I can do on weekends).
Anyway, I've been thinking about this and making calculations for the last week to figure out mileage for the first half of April; and it looks pretty aggressive. The other option is to accept I won't be at my target BF % by 4/14... but how much to scale back on that goal is the unknown.
I noticed no one has replied to this yet, and I am far from an expert, but this is my $.02, for whatever it's actually worth, lol. I personally would NOT focus on such an aggressive loss. I am currently also in the weight-loss camp right now, and have actually been concerned by how quickly I've been losing because I want to maintain my lean body mass to a healthy degree. When you lose really aggressively you can't just flip a switch that makes sure the loss is 100% purely body fat. I already do weight training twice a week, and in addition to it being for injury prevention with my running, it is also to hopefully maintain as much of my lean body mass as possible. When you lose too fast I think you risk losing too much of that lean body mass vs body fat. I say, keep it reasonable, take the first tests/scans for what they are, and then when you get them again you can use it as a comparison.
It's not really a 'switch' because it takes a long time to make the change (which I completed a long time ago), but I am fat adapted. So my primary source for skeletal muscle (and for exercise) is to oxidize fat. It's very different than the typical person who consumes a lot of carbohydrates and uses primarily glucose for energy. In those cases, protein (either dietary or muscle) will need to be broken down to create glucose and provide energy and replenish glycogen if the total diet is insufficient in carbohydrates and protein.
However, since I eat very low carb and the central nervous system / brain can't oxidize fat for energy (although it can use ketones), protein will need to be broken down to create glucose for brain function. I've done a fair amount of research and calculations to determine that I can spare muscle by consuming at least 157g / day of protein. I understand your point, but I think I've figured out how to minimize or prevent muscle loss and to cause my body to primarily use fat (dietary or stored) for energy. By limiting dietary fat intake in addition to having muscles that primarily oxidize fat for energy, I'm making those muscles have to turn to body fat. If I were to run for 2 hours at a sub-maximal exertion level, I should be able to oxidize 190g (0.42 lbs.) of fat (based on a Volek and Phinney study finding fat adapted endurance athletes oxidized fat at 1.58g/min +/-0.14 at sub-maximal exertion... 64% of max HR). That's just from exercise, not from RMR. If I consume only enough fat to reach my RMR (or slightly less), then I should be able to lose just over 5 lbs. between 4/2 - 4/13; which is about how much fat I'm estimating I need to lose. It's somewhat aggressive at just under 3 lbs. per week, but I believe it is possible.
What I am hoping is that I can lose enough between now and 4/2 to not require as much loss from 4/2 - 4/13. Potentially, I estimate that by 4/2, I could reduce the daily mileage to as low as 7.3 miles. And that is why I'm not sure what to make April's goal just yet. For those first 2 weeks, I will need somewhere between 7.3 and 13.8 miles per day in order to achieve my fat use goal. I may not make my April goal until 4/2 because of that unknown.
Ah, very interesting, and yes, that definitely changes what kind of advice you would get. That is important information.
And it also reminded me that my friend shared a podcast with me the other day, with an author talking about the whole concept of training your body to recruit fat for energy, and how you can change the whole idea of needing to carbo-load before long races and such. I need to go figure out who it was who was talking so I can do some more research, lol.
ETA: Found it! The book is Primal Endurance by Mark Sisson. This was the podcast: artofmanliness.com/2016/06/06/podcast-207-primal-endurance-how-to-become-a-fat-burning-beast/
Fascinating you should mention that. This is the 2nd time this week that someone has brought up that book in an online forum (the other being on a different site in a discussion group for type 1 diabetics. That discussion post was about being fat adapted / keto dieting for type 1 endurance athletes. It was in the back of my mind, now I almost have to look into it.1 -
Sorry to hear about your condition @ddmom0811 but I did :laugh: about your dilemma with your planned run!
Welcome @breakingred!
@patrikc333 - It's usually a sign or flag alongside a trail that makes me think it is a person, something with a flash of color. I also find myself moving over to let whoever is running up behind me pass, only to figure out I'm getting an echo of my own footsteps.
Apparently I felt good today as my high HR alert kept chirping earlier than expected. I realized I was running faster and not realizing it. So I made each running interval a good effort like that.
3/4 - 3 miles
3/5 - 1.5 miles
3/6 - 1.5 miles
3/7 - 1.5 miles
3/8 - 1.5 miles
3/9 - 1.5 miles
3/10 - rest
3/11 - 3 hilly miles
3/12 - 1.5 zippy miles
3/13 - 1.5 hilly miles
3/14 - 3 miles
3/15 - 3 miles
3/16 - 2 miles
3/17 - rest
3/18 - 3 miles
3/19 - 3 miles
3/20 - 3 miles
3/21 - 3miles
3/22 - 3 miles
3/23 - 3 miles
3/24 - rest
3/25 - 10 miles
3/26 - 4 miles
3/27 - 4 miles
3/28 - 4 miles
3/29 - 4 miles
68.5 of 38 miles total
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Thanks everyone for your input! I ran 4.5 miles yesterday to bring my total to 17 miles. I only have 3 more to go! One day I will get to some of your mileage!
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@ddmom0811 OMG you poor girl and you are probably better off you decided against the commando skirt run! ha ha
@shanaber yeah for speed!
@hannahbananna80 I hope your foot is nothing serious. Very frustrating about the shoe salesman. We were in our local Fleet Feet last weekend and my daughter probably tried on 10 different shoes and then a few more, ran up and down the sidewalk outside, narrowed it down to 2 pair, then wore one of each running up and down the sidewalk while apologizing to the guy that she was sorry she was a pain. He was so matter of fact in that he didn't care how long it took she needed to feel 200% sure in her purchase.
@respectthekitty hope the new meds are what you need, hugs
@girlinahat love the pictures and happy belated Mother's Day
After work yesterday I went to the JV track meet and got home late so decided to take a rest day this morning. I set the alarm later and I'm glad I did, my legs were a bit tired this morning so a rest was needed for them. Walking around the meet all night in high heels was really not so fun ha ha
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@garygse I don't have premium either, but I get calorie burns from Strava. Sometimes (though usually only for bike rides, I think) I have to click on "Show more" on the website to see them. But I get calorie burns both using the Strava app for tracking the run and when uploading the runs tracked with my watch.@jessicalferrara Strava doesn't show calorie burn for me, so maybe that's a premium feature (and I'm too cheap for that, lol). Garmin seems to be consistent about calories with my running however, and if anything seems to have a tendency to slightly under-report.
@ddmom0811 Ouch! The commando/skirt option might work, if you avoid Marilyn-Monroe-like air gratings. Or running uphill with somebody close behind. That's also risky - I know that because I remember running up a steep hill behind some guy in a race. He was wearing very loose shorts and definitely nothing else
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_nikkiwolf_ wrote: »
@garygse I don't have premium either, but I get calorie burns from Strava. Sometimes (though usually only for bike rides, I think) I have to click on "Show more" on the website to see them. But I get calorie burns both using the Strava app for tracking the run and when uploading the runs tracked with my watch.@jessicalferrara Strava doesn't show calorie burn for me, so maybe that's a premium feature (and I'm too cheap for that, lol). Garmin seems to be consistent about calories with my running however, and if anything seems to have a tendency to slightly under-report.
Same here. I don't have premium, but the App shows me when I click on the stats for my run. You can swipe to the left to see more information, like heart rate, elevation, etc.
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3/1 - 3.5 mi.
3/2 - 4.0 mi.
3/3 - 4.2 mi.
3/4 - 4.0 mi.
3/5 - 3.5 mi.
3/6 - 3.1 mi.
3/7 - 3.5 mi.
3/8 - 3.2 mi.
3/9 - rest
3/10 - 3.1 mi.
3/11 - 3.0 mi.
3/12 - 4.1 mi.
3/13 - 4.0 mi.
3/14 - 4.7 mi.
3/15 - 4.1 mi.
3/16 - rest
3/17 - 3.2 mi.
3/18 - 4.1 mi.
3/19 - 4.1 mi.
3/20 - 4.0 mi.
3/21 - rest
3/22 - 5.0 mi.
3/23 - 4.5 mi.
3/24 - crazy day...no time.
3/25 - 6.0 mi.
3/26 - 5.1 mi.
3/27 - 4.3 mi.
3/28 - 4.0 mi.
3/29 - 4.0 mi.
March total: 100.3/100
Sometimes it pays to be terrible at math.
I thought I still had a few miles to go to make my March goal. So much for mental arithmetic! What a pleasant surprise!! 6 -
Finally felt like a runner again this morning, albeit, a tired, out of shape runner. I FINALLY got in another speed run this morning and, though I fellt awful during parts of it, I feel great now and I'm not sore at all....yet. Today's assignment was 8 miles with 3x mile at Tempo pace (8:20-8:35) w/ 90 sec recovery jog. basic breakdown of the run:
WU: 3 miles @ 9:45
Interval 1: 8:30
Interval 2: 8:32
Interval 3: 8:30
CD: 2 miles @ 10:00.
In addition to being my first speed workout in 2 weeks, it was also my longest run since last month. This run was a real boost for my confidence in my running. Tomorrow is rest, then an easy 4 on Friday and.... 15 on Saturday, to get me running long again.....Kind of scared/excited for that run.8 -
Nearly there!
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@lporter229 - If you're feeling beat up and wondering whether you should scale back a run, you definitely should scale it back. At this point, less is more. The fact that your pace has slowed is also an indicator that you're pretty beat up. Back off, start the taper early, taper lower than planned, rest up, get healthy. You'll be glad you did on Patriots' Day.
One of the things that is striking me this training cycle is that I'm in much better shape than I was last year. Part of that is because I'm retired, getting enough sleep consistently, and under much less stress. And part of it is because I'm not training as hard as I did last year for various reasons that weren't part of any grand training plan. Last year, Coach had me start tapering a week early because I had beat myself up so bad. I didn't really understand it at the time, but in hindsight that might have prevented a DNF.
The hay is in the barn. Whatever fitness you reached up to this part, that is about as far as you are going to go. You cannot improve on your fitness if you do not have enough time to recover from that stress that is designed to improve your fitness. Moby is right. At this point, LESS IS MORE!!!! Taper is about getting your muscles healed and primed up so they are functioning their best come race day.
You do a workout now, that is going to take more time to heal and recover, time that you no longer have. Rest, recover. Trust in the training that you already done. Run a smart race based upon the training that you were able to get in.
Most important, enjoy the experience. Have fun. This is the part in your training that you begin to enjoy everything because the end of the training is behind you.
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The hay is in the barn.
@stoshew71 this saying always cracks me up. You really can't appreciate it until you hear Skip's Polish speaking coach say it in her accent.
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I guess I can stop looking for your speed now :laugh:WhatMeRunning wrote: »Apparently I felt good today as my high HR alert kept chirping earlier than expected. I realized I was running faster and not realizing it. So I made each running interval a good effort like that.
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Ok, I finally posted a marathon race report complete with bloody pictures and all. Here's the link, but just a warning that it's long.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/comment/39195141/#Comment_39195141
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4 mile interval run as part of 10k training plan this morning.
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lporter229 wrote: »6.1 miles while the young'un had soccer practice. Planned on 12 but a mix up on who was picking him up made me cut it short. I'll go long tomorrow. Strava says 6.5 because I forgot to stop my Garmin at the end of the run. I can't remember that happening before.
It was a warm, sweaty run. I had forgotten how much I love being drenched in sweat after a run.
188/210 miles
@lporter229 if you were to go short because you feared failing to go 20, wouldn't you then be worried during your race because you didn't get that 20 in?
Hence my dilemma. *sigh* I tried so hard for over a year to keep it from coming down to this situation. Word of advice for anyone planning to qualify for Boston...don't pick an early race!
@MobyCarp- Thanks for the advice. I am definitely taking it into consideration. Still a little undecided on what to do. I know I can run 20 miles if I need to. I know I can run 26 miles if I need to. I guess the fact that I've done it before helps.
If an example would help . . . my coach had Achilles tendinitis when I met him. He wasn't running a step. But he had a bucket list item of running Boston on the 50th anniversary of his first Boston. (That year is better known for being Katherine Switzer's first Boston.) So he rehabbed, and stretched, and ran what he could, and had a training cycle with a maximum long run of 14 miles . . . then BQ'd at the Niagara Mohawk Marathon last year. In 19 days, I won't have to worry about running instead of walking when I pass Coach. He will be somewhere behind me on the course, having started in Wave 4, Corral 1 at age 68.
The mental question of whether I can go 26 miles is definitely less troubling after I've already done it a couple of times. FWIW, the pacing assignments for Saturday are 11, 18, or 20 miles. My first-time marathon trainees, aiming at Buffalo, will be running 20. I'm about 90% sure I'll back off and only pace them the first 18. If I get in 7 easy miles today and complete tomorrow's 15 mile interval workout, that will rise to 100% sure that I'll stop at 18 because that would hit the weekly mileage target. Three weeks out is not the time to blow past that weekly target.
Non-runners and sprinters may be impressed by all the miles marathon runners do in training. When I was learning to be a distance runner, I was impressed with the experienced marathon runners' discipline. If they needed 15 miles, they quit at 15. Never mind that the rest of the group was running 16, there was a pleasant conversation, and they were easily capable of running another mile; they quit when they had enough miles.2 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »KatieJane83 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »KatieJane83 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »Yes, I know Mar. is almost over, but trying to decide on a goal for Apr. I've already exceeded my Mar. goal of 60 miles. After the 4/1 race, my plan is to switch goals. Currently, my primary goal is to lose excess fat and secondary goal is to be able to complete that race and not be last (should not be a problem).
Starting 4/2, my primary goal is still to lose excess fat and secondary goal is to lose as much fat as possible before 4/14. The reason 4/14 is that is when I am scheduled for a Dexa, RMR, and VO2 Max. It's my first time getting such tests and I would like the BF % to be as close as possible to my goal BF %. It's a long and detailed explanation as to how I came up with this, but my estimate is that I need to run 13.8 miles per day from 4/2 - 4/13 in order to achieve that much fat loss that quickly (and also not to eat back those calories). That is way above current mileage, and would be about 2 hrs. per day. Alternatively, I could cut back calories and run 1 hr. per day.... that is a mileage that is more in line with where I've been on running days. The difference is not eating back exercise calories and doing something similar to alternate day fasting... and not taking a rest day during that time unless I make it up (which I can do on weekends).
Anyway, I've been thinking about this and making calculations for the last week to figure out mileage for the first half of April; and it looks pretty aggressive. The other option is to accept I won't be at my target BF % by 4/14... but how much to scale back on that goal is the unknown.
I noticed no one has replied to this yet, and I am far from an expert, but this is my $.02, for whatever it's actually worth, lol. I personally would NOT focus on such an aggressive loss. I am currently also in the weight-loss camp right now, and have actually been concerned by how quickly I've been losing because I want to maintain my lean body mass to a healthy degree. When you lose really aggressively you can't just flip a switch that makes sure the loss is 100% purely body fat. I already do weight training twice a week, and in addition to it being for injury prevention with my running, it is also to hopefully maintain as much of my lean body mass as possible. When you lose too fast I think you risk losing too much of that lean body mass vs body fat. I say, keep it reasonable, take the first tests/scans for what they are, and then when you get them again you can use it as a comparison.
It's not really a 'switch' because it takes a long time to make the change (which I completed a long time ago), but I am fat adapted. So my primary source for skeletal muscle (and for exercise) is to oxidize fat. It's very different than the typical person who consumes a lot of carbohydrates and uses primarily glucose for energy. In those cases, protein (either dietary or muscle) will need to be broken down to create glucose and provide energy and replenish glycogen if the total diet is insufficient in carbohydrates and protein.
However, since I eat very low carb and the central nervous system / brain can't oxidize fat for energy (although it can use ketones), protein will need to be broken down to create glucose for brain function. I've done a fair amount of research and calculations to determine that I can spare muscle by consuming at least 157g / day of protein. I understand your point, but I think I've figured out how to minimize or prevent muscle loss and to cause my body to primarily use fat (dietary or stored) for energy. By limiting dietary fat intake in addition to having muscles that primarily oxidize fat for energy, I'm making those muscles have to turn to body fat. If I were to run for 2 hours at a sub-maximal exertion level, I should be able to oxidize 190g (0.42 lbs.) of fat (based on a Volek and Phinney study finding fat adapted endurance athletes oxidized fat at 1.58g/min +/-0.14 at sub-maximal exertion... 64% of max HR). That's just from exercise, not from RMR. If I consume only enough fat to reach my RMR (or slightly less), then I should be able to lose just over 5 lbs. between 4/2 - 4/13; which is about how much fat I'm estimating I need to lose. It's somewhat aggressive at just under 3 lbs. per week, but I believe it is possible.
What I am hoping is that I can lose enough between now and 4/2 to not require as much loss from 4/2 - 4/13. Potentially, I estimate that by 4/2, I could reduce the daily mileage to as low as 7.3 miles. And that is why I'm not sure what to make April's goal just yet. For those first 2 weeks, I will need somewhere between 7.3 and 13.8 miles per day in order to achieve my fat use goal. I may not make my April goal until 4/2 because of that unknown.
Ah, very interesting, and yes, that definitely changes what kind of advice you would get. That is important information.
And it also reminded me that my friend shared a podcast with me the other day, with an author talking about the whole concept of training your body to recruit fat for energy, and how you can change the whole idea of needing to carbo-load before long races and such. I need to go figure out who it was who was talking so I can do some more research, lol.
ETA: Found it! The book is Primal Endurance by Mark Sisson. This was the podcast: artofmanliness.com/2016/06/06/podcast-207-primal-endurance-how-to-become-a-fat-burning-beast/
Fascinating you should mention that. This is the 2nd time this week that someone has brought up that book in an online forum (the other being on a different site in a discussion group for type 1 diabetics. That discussion post was about being fat adapted / keto dieting for type 1 endurance athletes. It was in the back of my mind, now I almost have to look into it.
Didn't find time to reply earlier, but I'm going to approach this from a different angle. 13.8 miles per day for 12 days is 165.6 miles in two weeks. Have you run 82 or 83 miles per week before? I've peaked out at 69 miles per week a year ago, and I think running 80 miles a week would risk injury for me. If you're coming from a 75 mile per week base, maybe not for you; but if you're coming from a 50 or 60 mile per week base, I'd be concerned.
FWIW, I just looked. I averaged 7.8 miles per running day in 2016 (which included some really short running days for rehab) and 9.86 miles per running day so far in 2017 (which is entirely in the pre-taper part of Boston training.) The numbers are lower if I include non-running days in the averages. It's possible you know what you're doing; but 13.8 miles per day for 12 consecutive days sounds awfully aggressive to me. If it were my decision, I'd say the risk of injury outweighs the benefit of fat loss.3 -
Thanks MFP friends, for your wise advice. I am pretty sure I would be giving the same advice to others if it weren't me receiving it. So on that note, I have decided to cut my long run down to 14-16 miles this weekend. I am going to head out in the afternoon and do my best to simulate race conditions. My main focus will be having an enjoyable, easy run which should give me the mental boost I need to head into this race. I have never gone into a race feeling this under prepared and I hate that. Maybe having a solid final long run will help with a little of that feeling. Either way, I know you are right and that this will be the best thing I can do to get me through Boston. That is why I love you guys!9
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midwesterner85 wrote: »KatieJane83 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »KatieJane83 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »Yes, I know Mar. is almost over, but trying to decide on a goal for Apr. I've already exceeded my Mar. goal of 60 miles. After the 4/1 race, my plan is to switch goals. Currently, my primary goal is to lose excess fat and secondary goal is to be able to complete that race and not be last (should not be a problem).
Starting 4/2, my primary goal is still to lose excess fat and secondary goal is to lose as much fat as possible before 4/14. The reason 4/14 is that is when I am scheduled for a Dexa, RMR, and VO2 Max. It's my first time getting such tests and I would like the BF % to be as close as possible to my goal BF %. It's a long and detailed explanation as to how I came up with this, but my estimate is that I need to run 13.8 miles per day from 4/2 - 4/13 in order to achieve that much fat loss that quickly (and also not to eat back those calories). That is way above current mileage, and would be about 2 hrs. per day. Alternatively, I could cut back calories and run 1 hr. per day.... that is a mileage that is more in line with where I've been on running days. The difference is not eating back exercise calories and doing something similar to alternate day fasting... and not taking a rest day during that time unless I make it up (which I can do on weekends).
Anyway, I've been thinking about this and making calculations for the last week to figure out mileage for the first half of April; and it looks pretty aggressive. The other option is to accept I won't be at my target BF % by 4/14... but how much to scale back on that goal is the unknown.
I noticed no one has replied to this yet, and I am far from an expert, but this is my $.02, for whatever it's actually worth, lol. I personally would NOT focus on such an aggressive loss. I am currently also in the weight-loss camp right now, and have actually been concerned by how quickly I've been losing because I want to maintain my lean body mass to a healthy degree. When you lose really aggressively you can't just flip a switch that makes sure the loss is 100% purely body fat. I already do weight training twice a week, and in addition to it being for injury prevention with my running, it is also to hopefully maintain as much of my lean body mass as possible. When you lose too fast I think you risk losing too much of that lean body mass vs body fat. I say, keep it reasonable, take the first tests/scans for what they are, and then when you get them again you can use it as a comparison.
It's not really a 'switch' because it takes a long time to make the change (which I completed a long time ago), but I am fat adapted. So my primary source for skeletal muscle (and for exercise) is to oxidize fat. It's very different than the typical person who consumes a lot of carbohydrates and uses primarily glucose for energy. In those cases, protein (either dietary or muscle) will need to be broken down to create glucose and provide energy and replenish glycogen if the total diet is insufficient in carbohydrates and protein.
However, since I eat very low carb and the central nervous system / brain can't oxidize fat for energy (although it can use ketones), protein will need to be broken down to create glucose for brain function. I've done a fair amount of research and calculations to determine that I can spare muscle by consuming at least 157g / day of protein. I understand your point, but I think I've figured out how to minimize or prevent muscle loss and to cause my body to primarily use fat (dietary or stored) for energy. By limiting dietary fat intake in addition to having muscles that primarily oxidize fat for energy, I'm making those muscles have to turn to body fat. If I were to run for 2 hours at a sub-maximal exertion level, I should be able to oxidize 190g (0.42 lbs.) of fat (based on a Volek and Phinney study finding fat adapted endurance athletes oxidized fat at 1.58g/min +/-0.14 at sub-maximal exertion... 64% of max HR). That's just from exercise, not from RMR. If I consume only enough fat to reach my RMR (or slightly less), then I should be able to lose just over 5 lbs. between 4/2 - 4/13; which is about how much fat I'm estimating I need to lose. It's somewhat aggressive at just under 3 lbs. per week, but I believe it is possible.
What I am hoping is that I can lose enough between now and 4/2 to not require as much loss from 4/2 - 4/13. Potentially, I estimate that by 4/2, I could reduce the daily mileage to as low as 7.3 miles. And that is why I'm not sure what to make April's goal just yet. For those first 2 weeks, I will need somewhere between 7.3 and 13.8 miles per day in order to achieve my fat use goal. I may not make my April goal until 4/2 because of that unknown.
Ah, very interesting, and yes, that definitely changes what kind of advice you would get. That is important information.
And it also reminded me that my friend shared a podcast with me the other day, with an author talking about the whole concept of training your body to recruit fat for energy, and how you can change the whole idea of needing to carbo-load before long races and such. I need to go figure out who it was who was talking so I can do some more research, lol.
ETA: Found it! The book is Primal Endurance by Mark Sisson. This was the podcast: artofmanliness.com/2016/06/06/podcast-207-primal-endurance-how-to-become-a-fat-burning-beast/
Fascinating you should mention that. This is the 2nd time this week that someone has brought up that book in an online forum (the other being on a different site in a discussion group for type 1 diabetics. That discussion post was about being fat adapted / keto dieting for type 1 endurance athletes. It was in the back of my mind, now I almost have to look into it.
Didn't find time to reply earlier, but I'm going to approach this from a different angle. 13.8 miles per day for 12 days is 165.6 miles in two weeks. Have you run 82 or 83 miles per week before? I've peaked out at 69 miles per week a year ago, and I think running 80 miles a week would risk injury for me. If you're coming from a 75 mile per week base, maybe not for you; but if you're coming from a 50 or 60 mile per week base, I'd be concerned.
FWIW, I just looked. I averaged 7.8 miles per running day in 2016 (which included some really short running days for rehab) and 9.86 miles per running day so far in 2017 (which is entirely in the pre-taper part of Boston training.) The numbers are lower if I include non-running days in the averages. It's possible you know what you're doing; but 13.8 miles per day for 12 consecutive days sounds awfully aggressive to me. If it were my decision, I'd say the risk of injury outweighs the benefit of fat loss.
Yes, the mileage is extremely aggressive for where I am at this point. That's the concern. Trying to figure out a way around having to do that.0 -
@BeeerRunner loved the race report! Such a badass!2
-
3/1 - 5 miles
3/2 - 8 miles
3/3 - 16 miles
3/5 - 7 miles
3/6 - 6.5 miles
3/7 - 6.5 miles
3/8 - 5 miles
3/9 - 6 miles
3/10 - 13.4 miles
3/12 - 6 miles
3/13 - 8 miles
3/14 - 6 miles
3/15 - 10 miles
3/16 - 6 miles
3/19 - 13.1 miles
3/20 - 5 miles
3/21 - 7 miles
3/22 - 8 miles
3/23 - 7 miles
3/24 - 3.5 miles
3/29 - 6 miles
I took some rest days, there. I will not be achieving my goal this month.
I did something to my right hip - I thought it was a running injury, but I'm more convinced, now, that I did something to it at work. It's feeling a little better.
My husband bought me an inflatable T-Rex costume for running races in. I'm torn - I think I'd get better race photos, but I still want to PR, too... I have not yet tested running in it.8 -
LOVE IT!!autumnblade75 wrote: »My husband bought me an inflatable T-Rex costume for running races in. I'm torn - I think I'd get better race photos, but I still want to PR, too... I have not yet tested running in it.
Besides the issue of running in it, there's the issue of how/where you attach the bib.
Maybe just run the last 100 meters in it? Change into it just before the finish line for an epic photo finish?0 -
WhatMeRunning wrote: »
LOVE IT!!autumnblade75 wrote: »My husband bought me an inflatable T-Rex costume for running races in. I'm torn - I think I'd get better race photos, but I still want to PR, too... I have not yet tested running in it.
Besides the issue of running in it, there's the issue of how/where you attach the bib.
Maybe just run the last 100 meters in it? Change into it just before the finish line for an epic photo finish?
Oh, I already have a solution for where to pin a bib. I think the T-rex needs to wear a nice big tank top. (Not that I think the safety pins would cause too much of a problem. Might want to reinforce the plastic where they sit, but the zipper is sewn in - so...)
For longer races, the hydration pack should fit in there with me, nicely. But I'll need a way to keep the bite valve near my face.2 -
autumnblade75 wrote: »
My husband bought me an inflatable T-Rex costume for running races in. I'm torn - I think I'd get better race photos, but I still want to PR, too... I have not yet tested running in it.
How awesome is that?!? If anything, maybe you can do a Halloween 5K in it? 3 -
BeeerRunner wrote: »autumnblade75 wrote: »
My husband bought me an inflatable T-Rex costume for running races in. I'm torn - I think I'd get better race photos, but I still want to PR, too... I have not yet tested running in it.
How awesome is that?!? If anything, maybe you can do a Halloween 5K in it?
If I don't use it before then, I will definitely make that a priority.3
This discussion has been closed.
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