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What do you think are the environmental factors of obesity and how best can we reduce their impact?
Replies
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Our town put in bike lanes and connected our parks to the local greenway and I see all sorts of people taking advantage.
Contrast with my husband's small rural hometown. No sidewalks. No bike lane, not even a shoulder( road then immediately ditch). When I run there, people actually stop and offer me rides because they assume my car has broken down--no one is active, lots of obesity.
Giving people a safe way to be naturally active is a win win.6 -
squatsanddeadlift wrote: »
First, do you actually believe the weight loss industry really want people to lose weight?
Good point but all industries are built to fulfil a need. Supply and demand etc. So I do disagree, that even with the industry relying on people who cannot maintain their weight loss, that we don't have a "fat acceptance" culture that is big enough for it to be a prevalent factor.
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squatsanddeadlift wrote: »
First, do you actually believe the weight loss industry really want people to lose weight?
Yeah, I do think they want their products to work. Do you believe the auto industry really wants people to be able to drive when they sell a car? Yeah, I do.
The act of losing weight doesn't prevent the sale of weight loss products anymore than the act of driving prevents the sale of cars. I know its a victimless crime to snark about the morality of a faceless company but come on, I don't think people producing exercise equipment or protein bars are malicious...they are just supplying a demand.2 -
The fact there are multiple types of these movements means there is a problem. It means there is a support network for people who are "HAES".
There are movements for everything these days. It doesn't mean they are influential or "a problem." I would bet that most fat people have never heard of HAES.Because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean it hasn't existed for a long time.
No, but it may be a sign of how influential it is.
Saying that people talking about something (negatively) on MFP shows it is why people are fat is bad logic.2 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »The fact there are multiple types of these movements means there is a problem. It means there is a support network for people who are "HAES".
There are movements for everything these days. It doesn't mean they are influential or "a problem." I would bet that most fat people have never heard of HAES.
I would bet most of them have, at least the ones with access to internet. NAAFA was founded in 1969 (according to them)Because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean it hasn't existed for a long time.No, but it may be a sign of how influential it is.
Saying that people talking about something (negatively) on MFP shows it is why people are fat is bad logic.
You are completely missing the point. The problem is fat people have supports that tell them being fat is ok, beautiful or whatever, (and given the rising obesity level, it's working), those threads are symptoms of this disease.
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I would bet most of them have, at least the ones with access to internet. NAAFA was founded in 1969 (according to them)
That something is on the internet doesn't mean that people with internet access have heard of it, let alone find it significant. You grossly overestimate the significance/influence of HAES, IMO.You are completely missing the point. The problem is fat people have supports that tell them being fat is ok, beautiful or whatever, (and given the rising obesity level, it's working), those threads are symptoms of this disease.
I'm not missing the point, I'm disagreeing.
I don't think most fat people think it's better/socially desirable to be fat, and I don't think most people are going to decide what is desirable/okay (whatever "okay" means in this context) based on some activists on the internet. Most people focus on their social group.
IMO, that obesity is more common, especially in certain social groups or socioeconomic groups tends to make it more acceptable in those groups, yes. I think there's good research also that shows that the extent to which your social group focusing on being thin, being into fitness, eating well, etc. also will influence you (well, the average person). Claiming that the existence of some "fat is great" activist group makes a difference is a stretch.
The social group I am most familiar with (on average: middle or upper middle class, liberal or liberal leaning, computer literate, somewhat feminist, political, college-or-above educated urban professionals) are probably more, not less, likely to be familiar with HAES and even sympathetic to their stated goals than the average person, I'd bet (although I still think most would not have heard of it). And yet obesity is quite rare, especially compared with the US average, in this group, while a focus on healthy eating and fitness is common. I think this is because whether one thinks that fat shaming is very bad (and they do, as do I), one still has one's ideas about what is appropriate for oneself which one's social group plays a role in.2 -
I think food consumption and food environment are the big issues.
Culture may contribute to food environment and hence what one eats.
Individual psychology will contribute. I think many of these issues are linked to what you eat though.
I know plenty of people who are overweight and active. There is a not a strong correlation there. For most athletes, I think they are slim due to what, and how much, they eat. Activity environment won't affect weight much for that reason.caroldavison332 wrote: »We tend to look like our genetic group. Eskimos tend to be short and round to retain heat, the Sudanese tend to be tall and then to dissapate it. I read a scientific study that identical twins adopted out are as fat/non fat as their adoptive parents. We also moved from physically working in the fields that expended calories. That why the Amish who still do can eat a big meal and shoe fly p pie for dessert. We also replaced the nutrition and non processed carb of roast beef, veg and baked potato with a sugary coke and carby, fattening Big Mac that we can eat while driving to the mall and not even notice that we have consumed a meal and eat again afterward. To overcome my peasant body type I PLAN to eat for strength with lots of protein, Dr Gabe Fuhrman's GBOMBS diet G(bitter greens like collard, kale, turnip top, watercress), Beans, Onions, Mushrooms, Berries and Seeds because eaten together these foods catalyze each other's disease fighting properties. I am SHOCKED at how happy I feel eating like this, and believe that people are under nourished and overfeed. If I have remaining calories, I sprinkle in some junk but no longer subsist on it.
The inuit are fairly short but I wouldn't call them round. They were a lean people, but they do have rounder and relatively flat faces which makes them appear less lean. They do tend to have shorter limbs than the more southern First Nations peoples.
Sorry. It's off topic, but I've seen this a few times recently and I just wanted to chime in.
I do agree that people do better eating like their ancestors of the distant past did. I'm of northern European descent and tend to feel my best avoiding sugars, a lot of starches and many fruits.
REPLY: I based my statement on that which I read about Eskimos in health publications about them evolving to be short and round to retain heat. I know from personal observation that in hot, humid, Sudan people evolved to be very tall and thin to disapate heat. It's the opposite in cold areas.1 -
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what you mean is that the Sudanese people you've seen were tall and thin. Personal observation couldn't tell you why they were that way, could it?caroldavison332 wrote: »...I know from personal observation that in hot, humid, Sudan people evolved to be very tall and thin to disapate heat. It's the opposite in cold areas.
Bringing this back to the topic, personal observation can only take us so far. Just observing something happen often can't tell us the reason why it happens - in this case, whether it was genetics, environment, behavior, or a combination.
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We are blessed to live in remarkable times. I don't expect to know hunger in my lifetime. The amount of energy I've put into acquiring food is small.
Environmental factors? Readily available food.
But our bodies are designed to see us through times when food may be scarce. The eye sees food, the brain says eat. Our bodies store any excess.
Reduce impact? A workable plan to limit intake & enough focus follow it.3 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »I think the first step needed for dealing with ones obesity is first to acknowledge your responsibility for your own body and take personal responsibility for it regardless of what circumstances got you there it is you that will have to work to achieve the goal you want of being fit or healthier.
I think trying to point towards society or circumstance or environment and externalize responsibility is, in the end, just going to serve as a roadblock to coming to terms with that personal responsibility. True or not I don't think its a productive thing to dwell on.
For individuals,sure.
For communities as a whole, looking at contributing factors in an integral part of public health planning and prevention.
Identifying barriers to healthy lifestyle is a major component of tackling widespread obesity and changing population trends.
See I don't really buy that.
The role of society, in my opinion, is to provide necessities and allow for opportunity. I, as an individual, could not really be expected to make my own shelter, make my own clothes, provide my own education, grow my own food etc etc etc and still be able to provide a benefit to our civilization. Society benefits individuals by having people responsible for individual aspects of what we all require to get by and individuals benefit society by providing one of those roles.
A society is failing if there are individuals who are not provided access to the basic necessities....one reason why health-care is such a major issue. To identify what those requirements are just think about what would happen if you did nothing and no one helped you. You would have no shelter, you would have no clothes, you would have no education, you would have no medicine and you would have no food....so you would be cold, naked, uneducated, starving and sick. Therefore if people within a community are suffering in those ways then sure...it might make sense to take a hard look at society because clearly the system is failing in some way. But obesity isn't that....obesity is the opposite of that. Obesity is a society that provides ample resources mixed with individuals who take more than they require. Obesity is an individual consuming to much food. If there was someone who was swelteringly hot all the time because they kept wearing 15 layers of clothing would we look towards blaming society for providing access to so much clothing or maybe societal pressure to "look cool" by wearing lots of clothes or perhaps a lack of education leading to them not understanding that wearing lots of clothes makes them hot? Or would we just point out that its actually up to the individual to use a reasonable amount of clothing and its only societies role to ensure people have access to clothing. If that seems silly how exactly is that different from blaming society for someone being obese with regards to societies role of providing sources of food?
I do not have a lot of sympathy for those who suffer from obesity (that doesn't mean I look down on them by the way) nor do I think it makes sense to try to look for problems with society in order to deal with obesity. I think looking for problem in society is not going to help people who are obese become healthier more than it is going to just encourage excuses and externalizing blame.
If someday in the future I am starving to death something is probably wrong with society. If someday in the future I am obese its probably because I stopped taking good care of myself.
This is where I stand.
Society is responsible for enacting systems to ensure availability, not determine outcome. This is where rational and irrational are at odds.
One of my professors summed it up nicely "Those who get A's and F's are truly earning those grades. The system is curved so that the students who show up to class and pay minimal attention, put in minimal effort, will end up with a C. So no I don't give grades - you earned your grade based upon your effort."
If you can show where such basic necessities are not available, then society has failed - e.g. Venezuela today.1 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »squatsanddeadlift wrote: »
First, do you actually believe the weight loss industry really want people to lose weight?
Yeah, I do think they want their products to work. Do you believe the auto industry really wants people to be able to drive when they sell a car? Yeah, I do.
The act of losing weight doesn't prevent the sale of weight loss products anymore than the act of driving prevents the sale of cars. I know its a victimless crime to snark about the morality of a faceless company but come on, I don't think people producing exercise equipment or protein bars are malicious...they are just supplying a demand.
What a horrible analogy. Buying a car does not prevent me from buying another car, second cars go obsolete, breaks down completely, so the market for new cars is sustainable.1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »I would bet most of them have, at least the ones with access to internet. NAAFA was founded in 1969 (according to them)
That something is on the internet doesn't mean that people with internet access have heard of it, let alone find it significant. You grossly overestimate the significance/influence of HAES, IMO.
Look at how many "plus size" women have crept into the media.You are completely missing the point. The problem is fat people have supports that tell them being fat is ok, beautiful or whatever, (and given the rising obesity level, it's working), those threads are symptoms of this disease.
I'm not missing the point, I'm disagreeing.
You can disagree but you are wrong. Another example, one woman made a post saying something like "I lost 15 pounds why isn't my belly gone". I took a look at her profile pic and told her "based on your profile you have a loong way to go". My post was immediately flagged, and at least three people called me rude for giving her an honest appraisal. That's how far the fat acceptance movement have crept.I don't think most fat people think it's better/socially desirable to be fat, and I don't think most people are going to decide what is desirable/okay (whatever "okay" means in this context) based on some activists on the internet. Most people focus on their social group.
IMO, that obesity is more common, especially in certain social groups or socioeconomic groups tends to make it more acceptable in those groups, yes. I think there's good research also that shows that the extent to which your social group focusing on being thin, being into fitness, eating well, etc. also will influence you (well, the average person). Claiming that the existence of some "fat is great" activist group makes a difference is a stretch.
What makes you think bad decision making won't include nutrition.The social group I am most familiar with (on average: middle or upper middle class, liberal or liberal leaning, computer literate, somewhat feminist, political, college-or-above educated urban professionals) are probably more, not less, likely to be familiar with HAES and even sympathetic to their stated goals than the average person, I'd bet (although I still think most would not have heard of it). And yet obesity is quite rare, especially compared with the US average, in this group, while a focus on healthy eating and fitness is common. I think this is because whether one thinks that fat shaming is very bad (and they do, as do I), one still has one's ideas about what is appropriate for oneself which one's social group plays a role in.
Obesity is quite rare in that group you described? Thanks for the laugh and confirming that you are an enabler.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »I would bet most of them have, at least the ones with access to internet. NAAFA was founded in 1969 (according to them)
That something is on the internet doesn't mean that people with internet access have heard of it, let alone find it significant. You grossly overestimate the significance/influence of HAES, IMO.
Look at how many "plus size" women have crept into the media.You are completely missing the point. The problem is fat people have supports that tell them being fat is ok, beautiful or whatever, (and given the rising obesity level, it's working), those threads are symptoms of this disease.
I'm not missing the point, I'm disagreeing.
You can disagree but you are wrong. Another example, one woman made a post saying something like "I lost 15 pounds why isn't my belly gone". I took a look at her profile pic and told her "based on your profile you have a loong way to go". My post was immediately flagged, and at least three people called me rude for giving her an honest appraisal. That's how far the fat acceptance movement have crept.I don't think most fat people think it's better/socially desirable to be fat, and I don't think most people are going to decide what is desirable/okay (whatever "okay" means in this context) based on some activists on the internet. Most people focus on their social group.
IMO, that obesity is more common, especially in certain social groups or socioeconomic groups tends to make it more acceptable in those groups, yes. I think there's good research also that shows that the extent to which your social group focusing on being thin, being into fitness, eating well, etc. also will influence you (well, the average person). Claiming that the existence of some "fat is great" activist group makes a difference is a stretch.
What makes you think bad decision making won't include nutrition.The social group I am most familiar with (on average: middle or upper middle class, liberal or liberal leaning, computer literate, somewhat feminist, political, college-or-above educated urban professionals) are probably more, not less, likely to be familiar with HAES and even sympathetic to their stated goals than the average person, I'd bet (although I still think most would not have heard of it). And yet obesity is quite rare, especially compared with the US average, in this group, while a focus on healthy eating and fitness is common. I think this is because whether one thinks that fat shaming is very bad (and they do, as do I), one still has one's ideas about what is appropriate for oneself which one's social group plays a role in.
Obesity is quite rare in that group you described? Thanks for the laugh and confirming that you are an enabler.
That probably isn't Fat Acceptance at work, it's more likely just different expectations around tactfulness and civility.5 -
Packerjohn wrote: »IMO, saying our minds evolved in a scarcity economy is a cop out/victim mentality. The vast majority of overweight/obese people in the US have never been lacking for enough food in their lives.
What this mostly tells me is that you don't know what 'evolved' means.
Are you interested in solving the problem, or are you having too much fun berating people for having it?
We've also 'evolved' to have large brains for problem-solving, and this particular problem is easily solved by consuming less. Many of us here do it. Are we less 'evolved' because we've chosen to limit our caloric intake? Or are we more 'evolved' because we've overcome the biological imperative to eat everything we possibly can at all times?Identifying barriers to healthy lifestyle is a major component of tackling widespread obesity and changing population trends.
The only barriers are education and personal choice. Society isn't preventing anyone from eating less and moving more.
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Aaron_K123 wrote: »squatsanddeadlift wrote: »
First, do you actually believe the weight loss industry really want people to lose weight?
Yeah, I do think they want their products to work. Do you believe the auto industry really wants people to be able to drive when they sell a car? Yeah, I do.
The act of losing weight doesn't prevent the sale of weight loss products anymore than the act of driving prevents the sale of cars. I know its a victimless crime to snark about the morality of a faceless company but come on, I don't think people producing exercise equipment or protein bars are malicious...they are just supplying a demand.
What a horrible analogy. Buying a car does not prevent me from buying another car, second cars go obsolete, breaks down completely, so the market for new cars is sustainable.
Getting lean and strong does not prevent me from wanting to get leaner and stronger either.1 -
You can disagree but you are wrong.
That's not a convincing argument. You made the assertion, surely you have some actual supporting evidence.Another example, one woman made a post saying something like "I lost 15 pounds why isn't my belly gone". I took a look at her profile pic and told her "based on your profile you have a loong way to go". My post was immediately flagged, and at least three people called me rude for giving her an honest appraisal. That's how far the fat acceptance movement have crept.
This is not evidence, it's not even a supporting anecdote. The woman was apparently trying to lose weight and bothered by her belly, after all. That people think you were being rude doesn't mean they think that people shouldn't lose weight. I don't think it's okay to be ignorant about basic American history or gov't (if one is an American), but if I said something unsolicited (and I probably would not) I'd do it in a kind manner, or try to.
When I was fat I don't think it would have been helpful for random people to say "wow, you should lose weight" but I knew I was fat and thought about what I should do about it, and did lose weight. Given that, I act accordingly when dealing with other people.
Me:I don't think most fat people think it's better/socially desirable to be fat, and I don't think most people are going to decide what is desirable/okay (whatever "okay" means in this context) based on some activists on the internet. Most people focus on their social group.
IMO, that obesity is more common, especially in certain social groups or socioeconomic groups tends to make it more acceptable in those groups, yes. I think there's good research also that shows that the extent to which your social group focusing on being thin, being into fitness, eating well, etc. also will influence you (well, the average person). Claiming that the existence of some "fat is great" activist group makes a difference is a stretch.
You:What makes you think bad decision making won't include nutrition.
This seems like a non-sequitur. When did I say bad decision making doesn't include nutrition? I think it does, but that for most (or all) it has nothing to do with the FA movement. (One aspect of FA seems to be that nutrition is more important than calories, that eating healthfully is better than trying to lose weight and the two aren't necessarily connected. I think that's wrong -- and that people preach it more than they do it -- but I don't think people who don't eat vegetables or who want to eat more than they should do so because of FA.
Me:The social group I am most familiar with (on average: middle or upper middle class, liberal or liberal leaning, computer literate, somewhat feminist, political, college-or-above educated urban professionals) are probably more, not less, likely to be familiar with HAES and even sympathetic to their stated goals than the average person, I'd bet (although I still think most would not have heard of it). And yet obesity is quite rare, especially compared with the US average, in this group, while a focus on healthy eating and fitness is common. I think this is because whether one thinks that fat shaming is very bad (and they do, as do I), one still has one's ideas about what is appropriate for oneself which one's social group plays a role in.
You:Obesity is quite rare in that group you described? Thanks for the laugh and confirming that you are an enabler.
Yes, obesity is quite rare in the social group I am most familiar with, in my specific neighborhood, etc. When I was fat I stuck out more than most people would, which is perhaps one thing that caused me to care enough to lose, who knows.
Glad you think you know more than me who I spend time with and live around, though.
I'm 5'3, 125 now and am pretty average for the people I spend the most time with. Many are much thinner. (Kids in general are not overweight in this neighborhood, which is consistent with the difference in stats by socioeconomic background with child obesity.) Some are heavier, of course, but like I used to know I was fat, they aren't in denial.2 -
squatsanddeadlift wrote: »Interesting discussion point.
Causes of Obesity
Obesity occurs when energy intake from food and drink consumption is greater than energy expenditure through the body’s metabolism and physical activity over a prolonged period, resulting in the accumulation of excess body fat. However there are many complex behavioural and societal factors that combine to contribute to the causes of obesity. The Foresight report (2007) referred to a “complex web of societal and biological factors that have, in recent decades, exposed our inherent human vulnerability to weight gain”. The report presented an obesity system map with energy balance at its centre. Around this, over 100 variables directly or indirectly influence energy balance (Figure 1).
Factors
- Biology: an individuals starting point - the influence of genetics and ill health;
-Activity environment: the influence of the environment on an individual’s activity behaviour, for example a decision to cycle to work may be influenced by road safety, air pollution or provision of a cycle shelter and showers;
-Physical Activity: the type, frequency and intensity of activities an individual carries out, such as cycling vigorously to work every day;
-Societal influences: the impact of society, for example the influence of the media, education, peer pressure or culture;
-Individual psychology: for example a person’s individual psychological drive for particular foods and consumption patterns, or physical activity patterns or preferences;
- Food environment: the influence of the food environment on an individual’s food choices, for example a decision to eat more fruit and vegetables may be influenced by the availability and quality of fruit and vegetables near home;
-Food consumption: the quality, quantity (portion sizes) and frequency (snacking patterns) of an individual’s diet.
http://www.noo.org.uk/NOO_about_obesity/causes
All of the above factors are relevant, but from the thread title I thought you were referring to environmental factors such as growth hormones and pesticides.0 -
squatsanddeadlift wrote: »Interesting discussion point.
Causes of Obesity
Obesity occurs when energy intake from food and drink consumption is greater than energy expenditure through the body’s metabolism and physical activity over a prolonged period, resulting in the accumulation of excess body fat. However there are many complex behavioural and societal factors that combine to contribute to the causes of obesity. The Foresight report (2007) referred to a “complex web of societal and biological factors that have, in recent decades, exposed our inherent human vulnerability to weight gain”. The report presented an obesity system map with energy balance at its centre. Around this, over 100 variables directly or indirectly influence energy balance (Figure 1).
Factors
- Biology: an individuals starting point - the influence of genetics and ill health;
-Activity environment: the influence of the environment on an individual’s activity behaviour, for example a decision to cycle to work may be influenced by road safety, air pollution or provision of a cycle shelter and showers;
-Physical Activity: the type, frequency and intensity of activities an individual carries out, such as cycling vigorously to work every day;
-Societal influences: the impact of society, for example the influence of the media, education, peer pressure or culture;
-Individual psychology: for example a person’s individual psychological drive for particular foods and consumption patterns, or physical activity patterns or preferences;
- Food environment: the influence of the food environment on an individual’s food choices, for example a decision to eat more fruit and vegetables may be influenced by the availability and quality of fruit and vegetables near home;
-Food consumption: the quality, quantity (portion sizes) and frequency (snacking patterns) of an individual’s diet.
http://www.noo.org.uk/NOO_about_obesity/causes
All of the above factors are relevant, but from the thread title I thought you were referring to environmental factors such as growth hormones and pesticides.
Oh I see, as in the physical environment. Would you say growth hormones and pesticides effect obesity?
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Great discussion! Where does the "culture of snacks" fit in? When I was a kid I had 3 meals and an occasional "treat" (2 cookies, a half cup of ice cream etc). People nowadays with the incessant snacks and the mindless drinking of soda IMO is a contributing factor of the epidemic!1
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Great discussion! Where does the "culture of snacks" fit in? When I was a kid I had 3 meals and an occasional "treat" (2 cookies, a half cup of ice cream etc). People nowadays with the incessant snacks and the mindless drinking of soda IMO is a contributing factor of the epidemic!
Things are more available now. I work near a starbucks, any given afternoon it's filled with kids who just got out of school. They aren't getting iced teas, majority are buying the full cream/sugar/bombs. I think one factor of obesity is that it starts early. And I think it has a lot to do with education. A lot of people are thin their young lives, reach adulthood.. bam, obese.
There are a million things we can look at, but I think if we start on educating our children about nutrition and calories and exercise, etc - it'll be a great nip in the butt. It's a rabbit hole, when looking at adults - emotional, behavioral, medical, list goes on.
Another thing, if people knew how "easy" it was to lose weight, more people might attempt it. I remember thinking I had to go fat free, eat cardboard, be miserable if I wanted to shed a pound. CICO was a godsend when I learned/understood what it was. Obviously, there are outliers, but the vast majority can be helped with that knowledge. Heck, people now will argue with me that they have to follow this, overly restrictive, diet. Or these crazy rules that if they eat after a certain time they'll gain weight. Starvation mode will happen, I'll get bulky heavy lifting, and on and on and on.
To be blunt, a lot of people don't want to put the effort in. It's uncomfortable eating at a deficit. Working out is challenging. Eating less sucks sometimes. Calorie counting is tedious. Those people need to make the decision of what's more important to them.1
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