What has taken over MFP more Keto Threads or ACV Threads
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I posted this elsewhere. There are clinical practices popping up that have programs to attempt to repair, or bring back to a normal level, metabolisms of people that have been on ketogenic diets and reverted or want to revert.
I can't recall the specifics, but there was a study involving non-nutritive sweeteners adversely affecting the metabolism of nutritive ones. Anyway, discussion included extrapolating to dietary carbohydrates at large. I don't think there's any studies that have gone more than a year, last I looked.
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This is a fantastic thread.
I'm defining older as 70-80 years old and for ppl in that age group, most likely didn't have fruit everyday or huge bowls of cereal for breakfast.
It's hard to disagree that during the last 30 or so years snacking, eating between meals, and simple carb intake are problematic. I do think the added hormones and insecticides contribute to the problems with many ppl weighing so much.
Yes , people were polite but the idea of not wanting to appear "greedy" was great for self control- I don't know how the term "glutton" became an insult. We are PC and so often someone needs to hear the truth but they won't.
My parents are in their 70s, and have never have eaten a low carb diet. Food was more seasonal than now, so daily fruit depended on the time of year and where people were living (my mother grew up on a farm in the Yakima Valley, so fruit was extremely common during much of the year, actually), but other carbs (grains, tubers) were extremely common -- both my parents certainly recall cereal (cold or hot) and bread at breakfast.
And like I said before, my grandparents (all born between 1910 and 1919) similarly ate plenty of carbs growing up, often two starches (potatoes and bread) at a meal (three of my four grandparents grew up on farms, the other was the grandson of millers on one side and an employee of a grain elevator on the other, so I don't think grain is some new-fangled thing). They were not overweight because they did not overeat for their activity, not because they were low carb.
I happen to agree that increasing the opportunities/reasons to eat at the same time we've decreased activity is why we (as a society) have gained weight, but that has nothing to do with low carb or not. Most of those snacks you are talking about are half fat and half (refined) carbs.
Pretty sure the term glutton has always been an insult, it's one of the deadly sins. If you accuse people of it you are saying something bad about them, and something that, even if true, they will not want pointed out (and which will be considered rude to point out). Yes, people didn't want to be thought gluttons, and they don't (usually) today. Lots of fat people eat in secret or watch what they eat in public as a result, or even claim (often in self-denial) that they did not gain weight from overeating. When I was fat I was far less likely to have, say, a cookie if eating with others than now (and pretty much never did, even if they did, unless the person I was with was also overweight), since I figured I'd be judged, so I reject the notion that people no longer have no problem with being considered "greedy." (Note, I am not complaining about this, it was my personal issue.)4 -
I didn't really know what keto was until this thread.
My grandmother has been obsessed with ACV since forever, though. She thinks it cures everything. She gave me an ACV book of spells remedies that I still have, somewhere.4 -
This is a fantastic thread.
I'm defining older as 70-80 years old and for ppl in that age group, most likely didn't have fruit everyday or huge bowls of cereal for breakfast.
It's hard to disagree that during the last 30 or so years snacking, eating between meals, and simple carb intake are problematic. I do think the added hormones and insecticides contribute to the problems with many ppl weighing so much.
Yes , people were polite but the idea of not wanting to appear "greedy" was great for self control- I don't know how the term "glutton" became an insult. We are PC and so often someone needs to hear the truth but they won't.
My parents were born in the 1920's - definitely had a high carb diet.
The WWII diet in the UK under strict rationing was an extremely healthy one and also high carb.
Fruit and veg were of course far more seasonal/locally grown but starches (bread and potatoes mainly) were an absolute mainstay for the majority of my parent's generation.
Fun fact:
Sausages became known as ‘bangers’. Because of the shortage of meat they contained a lot of cereal and water and often exploded during cooking.
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Isn't it true for those of us older folks, we all did LC growing up. Not that it was called LC,
I can remember while loving sweets, still only occasionally getting something sweet, sweets were a rare treat. We, just as a normal part of life, ate one serving during meals. . . . .yes, the holidays were more like many ppl eat everyday today.
Does anyone else recall that being called greedy or a glutton wasn't bad manners and PC didn't exist?
I know younger ppl here have been told this and may not want to read it again but in many of our entire schools for k-8 there was perhaps, one obese boy or girl and in high school..perhaps 2 or 3....total.
Is it any wonder that ppl are going for ACV or Keto--vegetables & meat, what's so bad about that with them drizzled in delicious olive oil?
It sounds like you are suggesting that the way you were eating growing up, which you are calling low carb is:
Eating portion controlled foods.
Only eating sweets on occasion.
That, to me, sounds more like flexible dieting or moderation - than a Low Carb diet. Or when you said LC, did you mean Low Calorie, as in your calories were more restricted because of self restraint and then more active lifestyles?
But yeah, as others have said, I would not suggest that people of an older generation were eating low carb. My grandpa was a big fan of the gravy sandwich. Two slices of white bread soaked in gravy. With mashed potatoes and more gravy on the side. And chicken fried steak. Also with gravy. Occasionally there was corn on the plate. It probably had gravy as well. None of that, is low carb. Even the gravy starts with flour (none of that fancy cornstarch thickener for my family!).
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My grandmother's wedding vows read "to love, honor, and make cornbread." That tells you all you need to know about how low-carb my family was.11
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Another here who didn't grow up eating low carb at all.
One thing I will say though is we (by we I mean my family, in my part of the country) knew that grains, starches and sugars were filler foods. We weren't allowed to "fill up" on those things and couldn't have seconds of them unless we finished the nutritious part of the meal -- the meat and vegetables. And if you needed to lose weight those were the foods you cut back on.2 -
This is a fantastic thread.
I'm defining older as 70-80 years old and for ppl in that age group, most likely didn't have fruit everyday or huge bowls of cereal for breakfast.
It's hard to disagree that during the last 30 or so years snacking, eating between meals, and simple carb intake are problematic. I do think the added hormones and insecticides contribute to the problems with many ppl weighing so much.
Yes , people were polite but the idea of not wanting to appear "greedy" was great for self control- I don't know how the term "glutton" became an insult. We are PC and so often someone needs to hear the truth but they won't.
I'm not sure what cultural background you came from, but my Italian grandparents had grains for breakfast all the time. Either polenta or farina was on the menu if they weren't just having bread. They ate fruit when it was in season and in the market.
My grandmother would have been 100 years old on April 5th.
If you want 70-80 year olds, I'll go with my mother.
She was raised eating either Cream of Wheat or oatmeal for breakfast.
My relatives were too poor to be eating eggs for breakfast every day.
As for your other assertions, I'm not even going to bother trying to disabuse you of them. I agree we snack more than we used to, but I find this notion of not wanting to appear "greedy" is likely something that you in particular lived with in your own life. It wasn't anything I remember. I grew up eating normal portions because that's how people used to eat.0 -
leanjogreen18 wrote: »I've seen keto, anti sugar, folks who moderate/can't moderate etc addressed as "is this sustainable" " I can't do that" a lot. I think it's an equal opportunity "mocking"
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Could be. It could be I am a bit defensive. Perhaps I am seeing "sugar is the debil" and "I eat a treat everyday and I'm still alive" or "it helps epileptics and that's it" implied in threads when it is not.
Just to clarify from others, what is a "magical" keto claim? The only ones I can come up with is keto is NEEDED for weight loss and keto cures cancer outright. Are there others that are equally untrue?
There are health claims to keto that are true, even if not everyone gets to experience them. No treatment is 100% effective for everybody. The keto benefits I know of are reduced appetite and cravings, slightly accelerated losses (small and mainly in those with IR), improved skin and hair without weight loss, improved mental clarity including possibly helping those with dementia, better BG control within days without weightloss, improved lipid panels without weight loss, improved AI symptoms without weight loss, beneficial effects on hormones without weight loss... I think that's it. And of course, not everyone experiences those.2 -
diannethegeek wrote: »I ate high carb as a kid. Cereal for breakfast, with a glass of juice. Lunch was a sandwich with an apple, and often another juice. Dinner was meat starch and vegetable, with a glass of juice or powdered skim milk. Snacks were fruit, raw vegetables (more common during the day or before dinner) and cookies.
I would like to add that I hope people would not hold LCHF misinformation against the diet or all those who use it. Inaccurate info is just that and does not mean the diet, or certain foods, are bad... or excessively good.
This board needs an irony button.
High carb worked for me until it didn't. I have wondered if my diet had not been so high carb growing up and into my twenties, if my health and dietary needs would be different now.
Ironic? For me I see irony in the possibility that a higher carb diet may have led to my need for a low carb diet.2 -
leanjogreen18 wrote: »I've seen keto, anti sugar, folks who moderate/can't moderate etc addressed as "is this sustainable" " I can't do that" a lot. I think it's an equal opportunity "mocking".
Just to clarify from others, what is a "magical" keto claim? The only ones I can come up with is keto is NEEDED for weight loss and keto cures cancer outright. Are there others that are equally untrue?
The implication that eating a keto diet allows a person to consume more calories than they need and still lose weight. I have yet to see anyone state that, but it's heavily hinted at by at least one poster.2 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »This is a fantastic thread.
I'm defining older as 70-80 years old and for ppl in that age group, most likely didn't have fruit everyday or huge bowls of cereal for breakfast.
It's hard to disagree that during the last 30 or so years snacking, eating between meals, and simple carb intake are problematic. I do think the added hormones and insecticides contribute to the problems with many ppl weighing so much.
Yes , people were polite but the idea of not wanting to appear "greedy" was great for self control- I don't know how the term "glutton" became an insult. We are PC and so often someone needs to hear the truth but they won't.
I'm not sure what cultural background you came from, but my Italian grandparents had grains for breakfast all the time. Either polenta or farina was on the menu if they weren't just having bread. They ate fruit when it was in season and in the market.
My grandmother would have been 100 years old on April 5th.
If you want 70-80 year olds, I'll go with my mother.
She was raised eating either Cream of Wheat or oatmeal for breakfast.
My relatives were too poor to be eating eggs for breakfast every day.
As for your other assertions, I'm not even going to bother trying to disabuse you of them. I agree we snack more than we used to, but I find this notion of not wanting to appear "greedy" is likely something that you in particular lived with in your own life. It wasn't anything I remember. I grew up eating normal portions because that's how people used to eat.
Germany here, I don't think I have to say how much we love potatoes and breads.7 -
stevencloser wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »This is a fantastic thread.
I'm defining older as 70-80 years old and for ppl in that age group, most likely didn't have fruit everyday or huge bowls of cereal for breakfast.
It's hard to disagree that during the last 30 or so years snacking, eating between meals, and simple carb intake are problematic. I do think the added hormones and insecticides contribute to the problems with many ppl weighing so much.
Yes , people were polite but the idea of not wanting to appear "greedy" was great for self control- I don't know how the term "glutton" became an insult. We are PC and so often someone needs to hear the truth but they won't.
I'm not sure what cultural background you came from, but my Italian grandparents had grains for breakfast all the time. Either polenta or farina was on the menu if they weren't just having bread. They ate fruit when it was in season and in the market.
My grandmother would have been 100 years old on April 5th.
If you want 70-80 year olds, I'll go with my mother.
She was raised eating either Cream of Wheat or oatmeal for breakfast.
My relatives were too poor to be eating eggs for breakfast every day.
As for your other assertions, I'm not even going to bother trying to disabuse you of them. I agree we snack more than we used to, but I find this notion of not wanting to appear "greedy" is likely something that you in particular lived with in your own life. It wasn't anything I remember. I grew up eating normal portions because that's how people used to eat.
Germany here, I don't think I have to say how much we love potatoes and breads.
When I first visited Germany I was amazed by the variety of sausages and in particular breads! You have so many, it's actually a European bread paradise! I loved the small breads as well. I ate the best sandwiches there. Gniedla (knödel) schmeckt auch sehr gut!5 -
I'm seeing a lot of "Will the sugar in diet soda make me fat?" threads lately.
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Gallowmere1984 wrote: »
I blame that sugar documentary, don't recall the name but it basically blame every kind of soda for making people obese.1 -
stevencloser wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »This is a fantastic thread.
I'm defining older as 70-80 years old and for ppl in that age group, most likely didn't have fruit everyday or huge bowls of cereal for breakfast.
It's hard to disagree that during the last 30 or so years snacking, eating between meals, and simple carb intake are problematic. I do think the added hormones and insecticides contribute to the problems with many ppl weighing so much.
Yes , people were polite but the idea of not wanting to appear "greedy" was great for self control- I don't know how the term "glutton" became an insult. We are PC and so often someone needs to hear the truth but they won't.
I'm not sure what cultural background you came from, but my Italian grandparents had grains for breakfast all the time. Either polenta or farina was on the menu if they weren't just having bread. They ate fruit when it was in season and in the market.
My grandmother would have been 100 years old on April 5th.
If you want 70-80 year olds, I'll go with my mother.
She was raised eating either Cream of Wheat or oatmeal for breakfast.
My relatives were too poor to be eating eggs for breakfast every day.
As for your other assertions, I'm not even going to bother trying to disabuse you of them. I agree we snack more than we used to, but I find this notion of not wanting to appear "greedy" is likely something that you in particular lived with in your own life. It wasn't anything I remember. I grew up eating normal portions because that's how people used to eat.
Germany here, I don't think I have to say how much we love potatoes and breads.
When I first visited Germany I was amazed by the variety of sausages and in particular breads! You have so many, it's actually a European bread paradise! I loved the small breads as well. I ate the best sandwiches there. Gniedla (knödel) schmeckt auch sehr gut!
Go to a good bakery here in the UK and you get a really good variety of breads too, we steal from all over the world. And sausages too, very different to German sausages (a small selection of which you can easily find in most supermarkets) and we also steal a lot of Polish food as well now.2 -
VintageFeline wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »This is a fantastic thread.
I'm defining older as 70-80 years old and for ppl in that age group, most likely didn't have fruit everyday or huge bowls of cereal for breakfast.
It's hard to disagree that during the last 30 or so years snacking, eating between meals, and simple carb intake are problematic. I do think the added hormones and insecticides contribute to the problems with many ppl weighing so much.
Yes , people were polite but the idea of not wanting to appear "greedy" was great for self control- I don't know how the term "glutton" became an insult. We are PC and so often someone needs to hear the truth but they won't.
I'm not sure what cultural background you came from, but my Italian grandparents had grains for breakfast all the time. Either polenta or farina was on the menu if they weren't just having bread. They ate fruit when it was in season and in the market.
My grandmother would have been 100 years old on April 5th.
If you want 70-80 year olds, I'll go with my mother.
She was raised eating either Cream of Wheat or oatmeal for breakfast.
My relatives were too poor to be eating eggs for breakfast every day.
As for your other assertions, I'm not even going to bother trying to disabuse you of them. I agree we snack more than we used to, but I find this notion of not wanting to appear "greedy" is likely something that you in particular lived with in your own life. It wasn't anything I remember. I grew up eating normal portions because that's how people used to eat.
Germany here, I don't think I have to say how much we love potatoes and breads.
When I first visited Germany I was amazed by the variety of sausages and in particular breads! You have so many, it's actually a European bread paradise! I loved the small breads as well. I ate the best sandwiches there. Gniedla (knödel) schmeckt auch sehr gut!
Go to a good bakery here in the UK and you get a really good variety of breads too, we steal from all over the world. And sausages too, very different to German sausages (a small selection of which you can easily find in most supermarkets) and we also steal a lot of Polish food as well now.
Hahahaha, I've been to the UK too! Germany, Czech Republic, England and Wales are the only countries I've been and had great english pastries. What also made an impression to me was that all these countries compared to Greece have so much more junk food varieties! Germany has great chocolates, bakeries and deli meats, the UK has such a big variety on everything, I got lost. And I live in Athens. Just for a fun fact: Mountain Dew made its appearance here a year or two ago. Chocolates and drinks are also more expensive here than any other country I've been to.
Back to the topic of this thread: going Keto, paleo etc. here can be expensive. Carbs+protein+feta+olive oil and olives :P ftw.0 -
VintageFeline wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »
I blame that sugar documentary, don't recall the name but it basically blame every kind of soda for making people obese.
That sugar film?0 -
leanjogreen18 wrote: »I've seen keto, anti sugar, folks who moderate/can't moderate etc addressed as "is this sustainable" " I can't do that" a lot. I think it's an equal opportunity "mocking".
Just to clarify from others, what is a "magical" keto claim? The only ones I can come up with is keto is NEEDED for weight loss and keto cures cancer outright. Are there others that are equally untrue?
The implication that eating a keto diet allows a person to consume more calories than they need and still lose weight. I have yet to see anyone state that, but it's heavily hinted at by at least one poster.
I've seen this stated right out in many, many different threads. I've also seen numerous keto posters insisting that if you eat carbs/sugar beyond a small amount you will put on fat even in a deficit, because sugar turns to fat (which is a misunderstanding or magical thinking about how it works) and people misunderstanding the fact that you burn more fat on keto (which you do, because you eat more fat) to mean that you burn body fat even if not in a deficit, which makes no sense.
Other magical claims: contrasting "low cal" with "low carb" with the obvious idea that you are eating way more calories or not at a deficit at all on keto.
Claiming that people on "low cal" diets (meaning eating at a deficit at all -- this was explicitly stated in a few threads I was in) are hurting themselves, and thus people need to lose with keto.
Claiming that if you don't low carb you need to eat every couple of hours (would confusing the millions of people who have traditionally eaten just 3 meals a day without low carbing, as well as many more of us who naturally skipped a meal while eating carbs without problem), and cannot run even a couple of miles fasted, etc. Also, insisting that carbs cannot be filling and that fat always is super filling.
There are more reasonable claims people make and I think individuals are different, but I'm talking in the last paragraph about claims that are made as if they applied to everyone.5
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