People judge - that's just "reality" - BULL****!
sequoialea
Posts: 26
So, I am keenly aware of the fact that people judge me for being obese. I have a thick skin for this judging at this point. However, where the bull**** factor comes in is when someone tells me "that's just reality". Oh really? So it is "reality" for people to be hateful, stupid, and just plain misinformed? I have been reading Gary Taubes' book, Why We Get Fat and his other book, Good Calories Bad Calories and I now know that "reality" isn't what it seems to be.
We live in a dream world - where science is opinion when it doesn't meet with our expectations and prejudices, for example - when the idea that losing weight is simply about calories in/calories out and that fat people have a psychological problem that makes them fat (totally forgoing the SCIENTIFIC research that points to the PHYSIOLOGICAL REASONS for obesity). If you don't understand the cause of a problem, how can you ever come up with a solution for that problem?
What makes us fat? Most of you I am guessing will say that it's caused by overeating (gluttony) and lack of exercise (sloth). That it's simply a calories in/calories out equation - this site is certainly set up that way! But that says nothing about what is ACTUALLY happening in the body to make it convert energy into fat and then store that fat in your cells. What causes that to happen? No one could answer this question for me - until I read these books.
We get fat because of the over-production of insulin which is caused by the excess (and for some people even moderate) ingestion of carbohydrates and especially sugar. This coupled with an imbalance in other hormones and your genetics is when, where, how, and yes WHY we get fat. I am fat because my body is predisposed to put on fat when these conditions are presented (high-carb, high-sugar diet). This in turn starts a vicious cycle where the body is in growth mode (it makes no difference if it is to grow taller or fatter - it's still growth mode), thereby REQUIRING more energy (i.e. food). We all overeat when we are in growth mode - when we are growing children and when our body is getting fatter. Gluttony (overeating) and sloth (physical inactivity) are NOT the CAUSES of obesity, rather they are the EFFECTS of obesity.
So, if you want to talk about "reality" please start with the FACTS. The fact is that most people will be happy to judge but never happy to be judged. I work towards a reality where the cause is the start of the solution and where people are a little less judgmental about the things they don't understand.
Sorry for the rant!
We live in a dream world - where science is opinion when it doesn't meet with our expectations and prejudices, for example - when the idea that losing weight is simply about calories in/calories out and that fat people have a psychological problem that makes them fat (totally forgoing the SCIENTIFIC research that points to the PHYSIOLOGICAL REASONS for obesity). If you don't understand the cause of a problem, how can you ever come up with a solution for that problem?
What makes us fat? Most of you I am guessing will say that it's caused by overeating (gluttony) and lack of exercise (sloth). That it's simply a calories in/calories out equation - this site is certainly set up that way! But that says nothing about what is ACTUALLY happening in the body to make it convert energy into fat and then store that fat in your cells. What causes that to happen? No one could answer this question for me - until I read these books.
We get fat because of the over-production of insulin which is caused by the excess (and for some people even moderate) ingestion of carbohydrates and especially sugar. This coupled with an imbalance in other hormones and your genetics is when, where, how, and yes WHY we get fat. I am fat because my body is predisposed to put on fat when these conditions are presented (high-carb, high-sugar diet). This in turn starts a vicious cycle where the body is in growth mode (it makes no difference if it is to grow taller or fatter - it's still growth mode), thereby REQUIRING more energy (i.e. food). We all overeat when we are in growth mode - when we are growing children and when our body is getting fatter. Gluttony (overeating) and sloth (physical inactivity) are NOT the CAUSES of obesity, rather they are the EFFECTS of obesity.
So, if you want to talk about "reality" please start with the FACTS. The fact is that most people will be happy to judge but never happy to be judged. I work towards a reality where the cause is the start of the solution and where people are a little less judgmental about the things they don't understand.
Sorry for the rant!
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I enjoyed reading your post, but I don't agree with it.0
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The whole calories in/calories out method works to a point, but there are definitely other factors at play. Otherwise I could not be 8000 calories down for the week and still only lose .2 lbs in the week before my period.0
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I enjoyed reading your post, but I don't agree with it.
Ditto.0 -
Agreed.I enjoyed reading your post, but I don't agree with it.
Ditto.0 -
Stress is known to cause weight gain.
Though are you saying people here judge? I generally find most of them
just correct misinformed opinion.0 -
So it is "reality" for people to be hateful, stupid, and just plain misinformed?
Thousands and thousands of years of history of people waging war, fighting and killing over different beliefs tells me... yes. I'm not saying I LIKE it. I'm saying it's reality. :frown:0 -
I enjoyed reading your post, but I don't agree with it.
I don't completely agree, either.
I do think we judge everyone, but not necessarily always in a bad way. I also think some people should judge themselves more. Feel free to judge me. No one on earth will be harder on myself than I am.
And I don't agree that overeating and inactivity are the effects of obesity.0 -
Im fat and I take responsibility for what I put into my body. Science didnt do me in, stuffing my face did.0
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As a fat person myself, I have to say that I got that way from overeating and not exercising. I was an emotional eater. When I learned to deal with that is healthy ways, then I could begin my weight loss journey. I have no one or nothing to blame but myself and I am the only one who can fix it. Now, I watch my calorie, fat, carb and sodium intake and I exercise daily.0
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I don't understand your logical jump between it's not "reality" for people to be judgemental and misinformed to the "reality" behind why we get fat.
Clearly, the fact that you had to read the book to know that shows that people are misinformed about this "reality." Yes, people are always going to be judgemental and misinformed. People judge all the time without knowing the whole story. Do you know other people's whole life story before calling them hateful and misinformed? No, you don't. You are being judgemental right there.0 -
It's more complicated than just insulin.
There are a whole load of hormones that regulate bodyweight, normal people remain the same age ajusted weight year in year out despite changes in eating, activity and so on because the body knows how much fat it wants to have around and will actively adjust intake and expenditure.
Obesity is not one single thing, it can be caused by defects in any of the many hormones that regulate metabolism, leptin, ghrelin, insulin, adiponectin etc
But yeah I agree. The whole attitude of "those fat lazy *kitten* just need to try harder" is not fair, we have a drive to eat which is just as strong as the drive to breath or go to the toilet, just that with eating we can "hold it" for longer, and some people who are miserable from constantly battling their panicking hungry bodies get angry at the people who they think aren't working as hard as them because they feel deprived. That's what I reckon.
I look at my family, "morbidly" obese dad, overweight mum, gran had type II diabetes, brother (in his early 20s!) has type II diabetes... I hear about how only 1% of dieters manage to keep the weight off over 2 years and the ones that do, do so by continuing calorie restriction to below "normal" levels (that's right! They didn't go back up to a reasonable 2000 calories, they stayed on 1400 for the rest of their life) while still exercising significant amounts - and most of all they all were psychologically quite obsessive about it and frightened of regaining the weight to a degree that in a thinner person would be a mark of an eating disorder. THAT is the facts!
Does it mean it's impossible to lose weight? I don't think so, moderate amounts of weightloss can be achieved reasonably easily by most people (the above scenario is for loss of 50-100 lbs). Beyond that, we're all learning more and more about the hormonal control of metabolism, I honestly believe we can have a breakthrough on this soon.
There was a kid who lacked a functional gene to code for leptin, and while he was massively obese he was also suffering all the metabolic symptoms of starvation, his body thought he was not just semi-starving but starving. Then they supplemented leptin and he lost all the weight, lost the extreme appetite he had, and became like a normal kid.
But people will say that's "excuses" or that only incredibly rare cases of obesity are caused by "real" problems, everyone else is a lazy fat gluttonous slob. Science ain't on your side.
Yet I am still going to diet... even though I know it might mean I gain back even more when I get old and tired of policing every single morsel, but dammit I want a few years where I get to be pretty (and I want to be slightly calorifically deprived when I conceive my children because of the positive epigenetic effects that can have on the following generation, or the one after that).0 -
No offense but I don't think that you're in "reality" believing that obesity is not caused by gluttony or sloth. I'm not saying that you in particular gained weight because of overeating or laziness (because gaining weight can be attributed to many different things), but the reality is that the majority of obese people got that way because of that.
I myself put on weight really easily, and it doesn't help that I am lazy and I like to eat. But I try to modulate my weight. I don't blame the scientific way in which my body reacts to food, instead I try to work against it to modulate my weight and keep healthy.
And being judgmental is a part of human nature. People are judgmental against super skinny people, ugly people, short people, etc. So there's nothing that you can do to change that. I'm not judgmental though, because I don't have a great figure and I know how it feels.0 -
"We get fat because of the over-production of insulin which is caused by the excess (and for some people even moderate) ingestion of carbohydrates and especially sugar. This coupled with an imbalance in other hormones and your genetics is when, where, how, and yes WHY we get fat. I am fat because my body is predisposed to put on fat when these conditions are presented (high-carb, high-sugar diet). This in turn starts a vicious cycle where the body is in growth mode (it makes no difference if it is to grow taller or fatter - it's still growth mode), thereby REQUIRING more energy (i.e. food). We all overeat when we are in growth mode - when we are growing children and when our body is getting fatter. Gluttony (overeating) and sloth (physical inactivity) are NOT the CAUSES of obesity, rather they are the EFFECTS of obesity. "
I think your paragraph I quoted above is incorrect. I think we get fat because of overeating and physical inactivity. We train our bodies to be in the growth mode you refer to above. You are making it sound as if our bodies would be obese naturally and this is not the case. While we might be genetically predisposed to gain in certain areas or be "bigger boned" than others, that does not mean that we are naturally obese. I became obese because I ate the wrong things, ate a LOT of the wrong things, and remained inactive. My whole family is heavy, but that does not mean that I can't lose weight! I'm losing weight right now! I made choices in my life that CAUSED the physiological changes in my body that you mention. You state: "I am fat because my body is predisposed to put on fat when these conditions are presented (high-carb, high-sugar diet)" - this means that you choose to eat high carb, high sugar items and that CAUSE you to get to a growth period and CAUSE obesity. Basically, its not a cycle, it is a choice to maintain that type of lifestyle. It is up to you to break that lifestyle and re-train your body to respond naturally to an active lifestyle, smaller portion sizes, and healthier food choices.0 -
I don't agree that it is strictly science. My entire family is thin and I am fat. I had issues, I ate a lot of bad food and didn't exercise and I put on nearly 50 lbs in 6 months. I take full responsibility for what I did to myself.0
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I don't agree either. I gained weight because I like potato chips and pasta and I didn't do any physical activity. This caused my weight gain. I wasn't in any sort of growth mode. I agree that sometimes it's more than just a simple in/out calories per day but in general this is it. Genetics plays a part in which areas we have that are larger, or what kind of metabolism we have.
and to the person above who has an 8000 defecit in calories, you're not losing weight because you're not eating enough - not because you are having your period. By that theory, after your period is over, you should drop all that weight. Doesn't that sound weird?0 -
Agreed.I enjoyed reading your post, but I don't agree with it.
Ditto.
dittto. i felt myself getting a bit angry as i read this. but that's all im gonna say.0 -
Let me also add that I do not think people should be judgemental either. People will judge, that is out of our control. However, on a site such as this, we should be more focused on trying to help each other and be supportive than being judgemental. But as far as it being a reality, there is absolutely NOTHING we can do to stop people from being judgemental. It is human nature - everyone does it. Maybe not for weight loss or physical appearance, but everyone does it in one way or another.0
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I don't agree either. I gained weight because I like potato chips and pasta and I didn't do any physical activity. This caused my weight gain. I wasn't in any sort of growth mode. I agree that sometimes it's more than just a simple in/out calories per day but in general this is it. Genetics plays a part in which areas we have that are larger, or what kind of metabolism we have.
and to the person above who has an 8000 defecit in calories, you're not losing weight because you're not eating enough - not because you are having your period. By that theory, after your period is over, you should drop all that weight. Doesn't that sound weird?
AMEN. I used to be almost 200 lbs in college.. why? because I smoked weed, laid around all day, got drunk as ****, ate whatever i wanted. had the munchies all the time, ate everything in sight, watched movies in bed, slept, woke up got drunk, smoked weed, ate whatever i wanted.
I'm 151 now.. why? because I work out every day, I have a physically demanding job, I eat good, I stay away from junk. I'm active, and I eat healthy. SIMPLE.0 -
Agreed.I enjoyed reading your post, but I don't agree with it.
Ditto.
I agree. I was slim in high school because I ate healthy and exercised everyday. I got fat because I stopped doing physical activity and ate like a horse. I'm losing the weight because I eat much better, and exercise regularly.0 -
So, I am keenly aware of the fact that people judge me for being obese. I have a thick skin for this judging at this point. However, where the bull**** factor comes in is when someone tells me "that's just reality". Oh really? So it is "reality" for people to be hateful, stupid, and just plain misinformed? I have been reading Gary Taubes' book, Why We Get Fat and his other book, Good Calories Bad Calories and I now know that "reality" isn't what it seems to be.
We live in a dream world - where science is opinion when it doesn't meet with our expectations and prejudices, for example - when the idea that losing weight is simply about calories in/calories out and that fat people have a psychological problem that makes them fat (totally forgoing the SCIENTIFIC research that points to the PHYSIOLOGICAL REASONS for obesity). If you don't understand the cause of a problem, how can you ever come up with a solution for that problem?
What makes us fat? Most of you I am guessing will say that it's caused by overeating (gluttony) and lack of exercise (sloth). That it's simply a calories in/calories out equation - this site is certainly set up that way! But that says nothing about what is ACTUALLY happening in the body to make it convert energy into fat and then store that fat in your cells. What causes that to happen? No one could answer this question for me - until I read these books.
We get fat because of the over-production of insulin which is caused by the excess (and for some people even moderate) ingestion of carbohydrates and especially sugar. This coupled with an imbalance in other hormones and your genetics is when, where, how, and yes WHY we get fat. I am fat because my body is predisposed to put on fat when these conditions are presented (high-carb, high-sugar diet). This in turn starts a vicious cycle where the body is in growth mode (it makes no difference if it is to grow taller or fatter - it's still growth mode), thereby REQUIRING more energy (i.e. food). We all overeat when we are in growth mode - when we are growing children and when our body is getting fatter. Gluttony (overeating) and sloth (physical inactivity) are NOT the CAUSES of obesity, rather they are the EFFECTS of obesity.
So, if you want to talk about "reality" please start with the FACTS. The fact is that most people will be happy to judge but never happy to be judged. I work towards a reality where the cause is the start of the solution and where people are a little less judgmental about the things they don't understand.
Sorry for the rant!
we do live in a dream world if science is blamed for everything rather than OURSELVES and OUR PERSONAL CHOICES AND LIFESTYLES.
judging is a part of everyone.
IT IS LIFE. people see my dog and think shes gonna eat their babies, JUDGING. oh well I ignore it, **** off you don't know my dog. right? right.
being lazy and overeating ARE the cause of obesity. and that my friend, IS REALITY. if you want to call food energy...okay lets see- you put energy in your body, but dont use up any of it.. what happens the next time you put energy in your body? IT SITS ON TOP OF THE OLD ENERGY. and so on and so on. none of it is being used up so it's staying in there. no need for science. lol.0 -
It's not an "either / or" situation.
People get fat by eating too much. (Yes, there is a tiny segment of the population that can gain weight due to some horrible genetic problem, but that's a TINY segment.) To pretend that the overwhelming majority of people gained weight without overeating is to deny reality.
It's also true that the composition of your diet can have severe ramifications on your health, your hunger levels and your propensity to gain weight and your relative ease or difficulty in losing weight.
I think it's great that you're researching the ways in which diet composition affects your health and weight. Hopefully this will make your weight loss and maintenance easier. However, I think you've drawn some unreasonable conclusions.0 -
I enjoyed reading your post, but I don't agree with it.
Ditto.
I'm going to go with this too.0 -
<---- was fat.........then did something about it.0
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Whoa time out......instead of pointing out the obvious and main cause of obesity.....there ARE others out there who do have other underlieing issues that causes their issues.
I watched what I ate but I cronically underate for so many years but when I ate anythng above 1100 cals I would keep it on. I know now what the issue is and now taking care of it. I also have sensitivity to hormones and the pill/depo made a lot of things worse for me with bloating and weight even when I was very active.
The thing is she is going above and beyond and trying to figure out why she is having issues and learning how to take care of them. She might be in the group where it wasnt just over eating and sloth.
We shouldn't be all over the article picking at it if we dont agree well then you dont agree but maybe someone out there is having that issue and they need to see it to see that they can change for the better with some reading to understand their condition and to talk to their Doctors.0 -
Why is it so important to some of you to see obesity as a moral failing rather than a physiological failing?
We know for a fact some people eat to satiety and do not become overweight. We even know that some people who are experimentally overfed automatically and unconsciously expend more energy in thermogenesis and activity.
Obese people (obviously don't). A person isn't morally superior because their body responds to excess energy a different way nor are they morally superior because when they reach a certain level of food intake they feel like they don't want to eat anymore. Yet plenty of people have bodies which respond to overfeeding appropriately, that is their appetite shuts off and their expenditure goes up, unconsciously and naturally.
And not just years, not just decades, not just centuries but literally millenia of telling fat people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and just stop eating and start doing more has not worked for the vast majority of fat people. We are at a juncture in human history where we have the means to understand the biochemical mechanisms behind all of this and more and more we are learning about it, and it's by learning how we REALLY work that we're going to fix these problems.
But it seems like people are offended by that idea, they are offended by the idea that the fat ugly slobs they see around them, maybe the fat ugly slob they think they are or was, are that way for reasons beyond simply being bad people. And I just don't get it... maybe they need to hate the person they don't want to be in order to sustain the energy to force themselves to stay at a weight their body thinks (possibly wrongly) is way too small.0 -
I enjoyed reading your post, but I don't agree with it.
Ditto.
I'm going to go with this too.
Agreed. ..I will add that one of the things they say on the Biggest Loser is that within the first month the contestants are usually off most if not all of their medications of things that were brough on from being overweight. . so just a thought.0 -
Why is it so important to some of you to see obesity as a moral failing rather than a physiological failing?
We know for a fact some people eat to satiety and do not become overweight. We even know that some people who are experimentally overfed automatically and unconsciously expend more energy in thermogenesis and activity.
Obese people (obviously don't). A person isn't morally superior because their body responds to excess energy a different way nor are they morally superior because when they reach a certain level of food intake they feel like they don't want to eat anymore. Yet plenty of people have bodies which respond to overfeeding appropriately, that is their appetite shuts off and their expenditure goes up, unconsciously and naturally.
And not just years, not just decades, not just centuries but literally millenia of telling fat people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and just stop eating and start doing more has not worked for the vast majority of fat people. We are at a juncture in human history where we have the means to understand the biochemical mechanisms behind all of this and more and more we are learning about it, and it's by learning how we REALLY work that we're going to fix these problems.
But it seems like people are offended by that idea, they are offended by the idea that the fat ugly slobs they see around them, maybe the fat ugly slob they think they are or was, are that way for reasons beyond simply being bad people. And I just don't get it... maybe they need to hate the person they don't want to be in order to sustain the energy to force themselves to stay at a weight their body thinks (possibly wrongly) is way too small.
The problem I have is that - yes for a good sized chunk of the population you could be insulin sensitive, you could be in a growth phase, and you could have a hard time releasing fat to be used as energy because of your insulin levels. All physiological reasons for us to be obese.
But the rub lies in that, in my opinion, I got that way because I over ate. I caused my body to enter that state, and then I didn't do anything to help get me out of that state. It wasn't emotional, but it was inattention. I didn't care what I was eating. I ate what I wanted and when I wanted it, causing my body to enter a state that made it very difficult physiologically to do anything but grow.
So did I gain weight due to circumstances beyond my control, or did I gain weight because I ate too much to put myself there?
I chose to take responsibility for my actions and in actions, and I chose do something about it.0 -
Yeah but... 1/3rd of women at any given time are on a diet apparently...
..it's really not for lack of trying for some people.0 -
I'm not saying that it can never be a physiological problem. My mom was on an anti-anxiety medication that made her gain weight and screwed with her body so much that it took her 3 years to lose 70 lbs. But, we do have to accept the fact that obesity was never seen as an issue before fast food replaced home cooked meals. Throughout the centuries, the ones considered "obese" were the wealthy because they could afford to eat and back then, it was a good sign to be fat. But still very few people were obese. People ate less and worked with their hands more.
When a parent allows their overweight child to eat a large sized big mac meal with a soda or shake at McDonalds, that is not just science. That child is fat because the parent allows them to eat large amounts of unhealthy foods and I can almost guarantee that the child will go home and play video games or watch TV rather than go outside. I see it every single day and it makes me sad that people teach their kids such horrible habits.0
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