Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Fasting
Replies
-
What questions? Shall we talk or are you at that point where name calling would suit you best?Hmmm, how to respond to sarcasm, a
Ah, I agree. We should all challenge our beliefs and eliminate bias as well. By the way, a. Liam is an assertion of truth without proof. Now, if , being that you restrict the conversation to just one person, dr fung, he provides ample independent proof that fasting works. I also restrict lengthy explanation for the sake of brevity.
But why would you restrict your research or a conversation to one person? That's not eliminating anything.
You still haven't responded to most of my questions except with vague replies. It's fine if you don't know or don't understand the concepts, you can admit that. Telling me to go research is trying to shift the burden of proof when you were the one making claims.
You want me to name call or you are going to call me names?
Here is the question again:You keep throwing out the vague term of physiological mechanisms. What specifically does the body do during the fasted state that would negate overeating by hundreds of calories?
Question, do you assume that all calories are equal? To say that the body treats them all the same?
You answer mine first since I've been asking for a couple of pages now and I will gladly answer yours.
Depends on the source of calories. Fat, protein, or carb. You pick.
0 -
Kidney damage is irreversible. Define cure of diabetes. To say the absence of a condition that no long requires medical intervention, does this suffice? If so I say cure.
Hmmm .... I think it's more remission ... cause Remission: Disappearance of the signs and symptoms of cancer or other disease. A remission can be temporary or permanent.
With diabeties ... Type 1 is never cured, Type 2 can go into remission and kept in remission as long as the supporting lifestyle and organ health remains constant. ... Have Type 2 long enough and you won't be able to get it under control and into a state of remission. .... I'm from a long line of Type 2 Diabetics and have seen it's affects on generations of people. (PS ... both immediate family line and other family tree limb lines; including successfull control of the disease/syndrome)0 -
Kidney damage is irreversible. Define cure of diabetes. To say the absence of a condition that no long requires medical intervention, does this suffice? If so I say cure.
Hmmm .... I think it's more remission ... cause Remission: Disappearance of the signs and symptoms of cancer or other disease. A remission can be temporary or permanent.
With diabeties ... Type 1 is never cured, Type 2 can go into remission and kept in remission as long as the supporting lifestyle and organ health remains constant. ... Have Type 2 long enough and you won't be able to get it under control and into a state of remission. .... I'm from a long line of Type 2 Diabetics and have seen it's affects on generations of people. (PS ... both immediate family line and other family tree limb lines)
Thanks for sharing by the way. Why do you believe this?0 -
What questions? Shall we talk or are you at that point where name calling would suit you best?Hmmm, how to respond to sarcasm, a
Ah, I agree. We should all challenge our beliefs and eliminate bias as well. By the way, a. Liam is an assertion of truth without proof. Now, if , being that you restrict the conversation to just one person, dr fung, he provides ample independent proof that fasting works. I also restrict lengthy explanation for the sake of brevity.
But why would you restrict your research or a conversation to one person? That's not eliminating anything.
You still haven't responded to most of my questions except with vague replies. It's fine if you don't know or don't understand the concepts, you can admit that. Telling me to go research is trying to shift the burden of proof when you were the one making claims.
You want me to name call or you are going to call me names?
Here is the question again:You keep throwing out the vague term of physiological mechanisms. What specifically does the body do during the fasted state that would negate overeating by hundreds of calories?
Question, do you assume that all calories are equal? To say that the body treats them all the same?
You answer mine first since I've been asking for a couple of pages now and I will gladly answer yours.
Depends on the source of calories. Fat, protein, or carb. You pick.
You know someone who eats only one macro? Serious question.0 -
Inuits
What questions? Shall we talk or are you at that point where name calling would suit you best?Hmmm, how to respond to sarcasm, a
Ah, I agree. We should all challenge our beliefs and eliminate bias as well. By the way, a. Liam is an assertion of truth without proof. Now, if , being that you restrict the conversation to just one person, dr fung, he provides ample independent proof that fasting works. I also restrict lengthy explanation for the sake of brevity.
But why would you restrict your research or a conversation to one person? That's not eliminating anything.
You still haven't responded to most of my questions except with vague replies. It's fine if you don't know or don't understand the concepts, you can admit that. Telling me to go research is trying to shift the burden of proof when you were the one making claims.
You want me to name call or you are going to call me names?
Here is the question again:You keep throwing out the vague term of physiological mechanisms. What specifically does the body do during the fasted state that would negate overeating by hundreds of calories?
Question, do you assume that all calories are equal? To say that the body treats them all the same?
You answer mine first since I've been asking for a couple of pages now and I will gladly answer yours.
Depends on the source of calories. Fat, protein, or carb. You pick.
You know someone who eats only one macro? Serious question.
Inuits0 -
But in all seriousness, can you be more specific. There are numerous studies where overdressed on the thousands of calories have resulted in. Ominal weight gain, so much so to say it's negligible..0
-
Typos, sorry, addressed0
-
What questions? Shall we talk or are you at that point where name calling would suit you best?Hmmm, how to respond to sarcasm, a
Ah, I agree. We should all challenge our beliefs and eliminate bias as well. By the way, a. Liam is an assertion of truth without proof. Now, if , being that you restrict the conversation to just one person, dr fung, he provides ample independent proof that fasting works. I also restrict lengthy explanation for the sake of brevity.
But why would you restrict your research or a conversation to one person? That's not eliminating anything.
You still haven't responded to most of my questions except with vague replies. It's fine if you don't know or don't understand the concepts, you can admit that. Telling me to go research is trying to shift the burden of proof when you were the one making claims.
You want me to name call or you are going to call me names?
Here is the question again:You keep throwing out the vague term of physiological mechanisms. What specifically does the body do during the fasted state that would negate overeating by hundreds of calories?
Question, do you assume that all calories are equal? To say that the body treats them all the same?
You answer mine first since I've been asking for a couple of pages now and I will gladly answer yours.
Depends on the source of calories. Fat, protein, or carb. You pick.
You know someone who eats only one macro? Serious question.
I ask this because most people eat at least two macros. Meaning an extra 500 calories will come from the total overall intake and not the last 500 calories eaten. If a person is doing low carb the extra 500 calories may come from up to 5% carbs, 30-40% protein and the rest fat. The excess won't come from a single macro.0 -
The body doesn't need carbohydrates. Mind you this doesn't take into account minerals.0
-
The body doesn't need carbohydrates. Mind you this doesn't take into account minerals.
Okay, but even if a person ate zero carbs (like Inuits) they're still eating fat and protein. So the excess calories come from both macros.
Again:
You keep throwing out the vague term of physiological mechanisms. What specifically does the body do during the fasted state that would negate overeating by hundreds of calories?1 -
But in all seriousness, can you be more specific. There are numerous studies where overdressed on the thousands of calories have resulted in. Ominal weight gain, so much so to say it's negligible..
Deriving all calories from a fat source isn't out of the question. Think bulletproof coffee.0 -
But in all seriousness, can you be more specific. There are numerous studies where overdressed on the thousands of calories have resulted in. Ominal weight gain, so much so to say it's negligible..
Deriving all calories from a fat source isn't out of the question. Think bulletproof coffee.
Is that all the person eats every day for the week? You're attempting to set up a strawman.0 -
But in all seriousness, can you be more specific. There are numerous studies where overdressed on the thousands of calories have resulted in. Ominal weight gain, so much so to say it's negligible..
Deriving all calories from a fat source isn't out of the question. Think bulletproof coffee.0 -
Kidney damage is irreversible. Define cure of diabetes. To say the absence of a condition that no long requires medical intervention, does this suffice? If so I say cure.
Hmmm .... I think it's more remission ... cause Remission: Disappearance of the signs and symptoms of cancer or other disease. A remission can be temporary or permanent.
With diabeties ... Type 1 is never cured, Type 2 can go into remission and kept in remission as long as the supporting lifestyle and organ health remains constant. ... Have Type 2 long enough and you won't be able to get it under control and into a state of remission. .... I'm from a long line of Type 2 Diabetics and have seen it's affects on generations of people. (PS ... both immediate family line and other family tree limb lines)
Thanks for sharing by the way. Why do you believe this?
Why do believe Type 2 Diabeties can go into remission but not be 'cured'? .... I suppose it's really a subjective thing for me personally. Cure signifies no traces left of the disease. Remission, to me, signifies, no further damage is currently active ... but that doesn't mean that damage already done has been put back to normal. ... Maybe it's a bit of symantics on my part. Maybe it's also how long the remission lasts and if other physical improvements are experienced that had been compromized in the uncontrolled or even tightly controlled state.0 -
-
What questions? Shall we talk or are you at that point where name calling would suit you best?Hmmm, how to respond to sarcasm, a
Ah, I agree. We should all challenge our beliefs and eliminate bias as well. By the way, a. Liam is an assertion of truth without proof. Now, if , being that you restrict the conversation to just one person, dr fung, he provides ample independent proof that fasting works. I also restrict lengthy explanation for the sake of brevity.
But why would you restrict your research or a conversation to one person? That's not eliminating anything.
You still haven't responded to most of my questions except with vague replies. It's fine if you don't know or don't understand the concepts, you can admit that. Telling me to go research is trying to shift the burden of proof when you were the one making claims.
You want me to name call or you are going to call me names?
Here is the question again:You keep throwing out the vague term of physiological mechanisms. What specifically does the body do during the fasted state that would negate overeating by hundreds of calories?
Question, do you assume that all calories are equal? To say that the body treats them all the same?
You answer mine first since I've been asking for a couple of pages now and I will gladly answer yours.
Depends on the source of calories. Fat, protein, or carb. You pick.
You know someone who eats only one macro? Serious question.
I ask this because most people eat at least two macros. Meaning an extra 500 calories will come from the total overall intake and not the last 500 calories eaten. If a person is doing low carb the extra 500 calories may come from up to 5% carbs, 30-40% protein and the rest fat. The excess won't come from a single macro.
Quoting in case you missed this. The extra calories will come from a mix of macros. Now what will happen to the extra 500 calories that are coming from a mix of protein and fat (we'll leave carbs out since you obviously disapprove of carbs).1 -
The body doesn't need carbohydrates. Mind you this doesn't take into account minerals.
No, your body doesn't need dietary carbohydrates. Your body actually needs carbohydrates so much, that in the absence of eating them, your body will produce their own.
Glycogenesis, yes. I'm sorry, I lost my train of thought. We are talking about the possibility of the body eliminating excess calories?0 -
]
Nope, not glycogenesis. Try again.1 -
There are numerous types of fasting. The one that seems to be getting a lot of attention lately is intermittant fasting. You can fast for "x" hours or "x" days. Some people don't do a complete fast but instead do a not eating but drinking (smoothies type drinks) and call it fasting. Intermittant fasting is supposed to work. I do not do fasting myself as I am a diabetic and my blood sugars can go dangerously low if I do not eat,
0 -
Touché, but it isn't the reduction of calories that is the mechanism of weight lose when fasting. It the hormonal shift of insulin in repsonse to depleted glycogen stores that ultimate precipitates the use fat as the energy source in the absence of sugar. It isn't the restriction of calories. Numerous studies will and do support this as well. At excess caloric intake, and fasting still results in weight lose, to say that it isn't the reduction of calories that is the primary mechanism.
Are you even aware that 90% of an average activity day has it's energy supply by fat already?
What are you talking about you need to fast to stop burning carbs and start burning fat?
Only the brain is using the blood sugar until you start moving more, up until the other end of the range being anaerobic and total carb usage.
That end of the range is your extreme effort that isn't lasting very long.
Most people can get somewhere up into the lower or middle of their aerobic zone and still be burning 50% fat as energy source, and more than that below that level.3 -
Could you please answer my question? I think I've made it all fairly clear. Someone eats one meal per day of 500 calories more than they need. These calories are made up of fat and protein. They do this for several months. What happens to the excess calories and how does it work?0
-
NimCould you please answer my question? I think I've made it all fairly clear. Someone eats one meal per day of 500 calories more than they need. These calories are made up of fat and protein. They do this for several months. What happens to the excess calories and how does it work?
Hi, just read this. Draw your own conclusion. This was turning into a wall of text. I'm lazy ATM. Sue me. https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/fasting-physiology-part-ii/0 -
NimCould you please answer my question? I think I've made it all fairly clear. Someone eats one meal per day of 500 calories more than they need. These calories are made up of fat and protein. They do this for several months. What happens to the excess calories and how does it work?
Hi, just read this. Draw your own conclusion. This was turning into a wall of text. I'm lazy ATM. Sue me. https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/fasting-physiology-part-ii/
That doesn't say that a daily calorie surplus will be negated if someone fasts. It doesn't talk about a calorie surplus at all.1 -
NimCould you please answer my question? I think I've made it all fairly clear. Someone eats one meal per day of 500 calories more than they need. These calories are made up of fat and protein. They do this for several months. What happens to the excess calories and how does it work?
Hi, just read this. Draw your own conclusion. This was turning into a wall of text. I'm lazy ATM. Sue me. https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/fasting-physiology-part-ii/
That doesn't say that a daily calorie surplus will be negated if someone fasts. It doesn't talk about a calorie surplus at all.
Your TEE increases too.. seriously read the blog. What's his six hour lecture on the etiology on obesity. It wil be explained throughly. Good night. Wife says stop now.0 -
NimCould you please answer my question? I think I've made it all fairly clear. Someone eats one meal per day of 500 calories more than they need. These calories are made up of fat and protein. They do this for several months. What happens to the excess calories and how does it work?
Hi, just read this. Draw your own conclusion. This was turning into a wall of text. I'm lazy ATM. Sue me. https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/fasting-physiology-part-ii/
That doesn't say that a daily calorie surplus will be negated if someone fasts. It doesn't talk about a calorie surplus at all.
Your TEE increases too.. seriously read the blog. What's his six hour lecture on the etiology on obesity. It wil be explained throughly. Good night. Wife says stop now.
I already stated that TDEE increases after 16 hours in the fasted state. That's well known. I also stated 500 calories beyond total daily needs.0 -
People trying to debate stuff that they obviously don't understand never turns out pretty.5
-
It's rather difficult to contend with armchair science and google theses days. Whilst the intent was to inform causally, and direct folks to a staring point, I was sucked into a course of conversation not suited for an iPhone and facts to support my claims. Here I concede. Enjoy the process. Do the research. Fasting works. Now go find out why.0
-
Kidney damage is irreversible. Define cure of diabetes. To say the absence of a condition that no long requires medical intervention, does this suffice? If so I say cure.
Hmmm .... I think it's more remission ... cause Remission: Disappearance of the signs and symptoms of cancer or other disease. A remission can be temporary or permanent.
With diabeties ... Type 1 is never cured, Type 2 can go into remission and kept in remission as long as the supporting lifestyle and organ health remains constant. ... Have Type 2 long enough and you won't be able to get it under control and into a state of remission. .... I'm from a long line of Type 2 Diabetics and have seen it's affects on generations of people. (PS ... both immediate family line and other family tree limb lines)
Thanks for sharing by the way. Why do you believe this?
Why do believe Type 2 Diabeties can go into remission but not be 'cured'? .... I suppose it's really a subjective thing for me personally. Cure signifies no traces left of the disease. Remission, to me, signifies, no further damage is currently active ... but that doesn't mean that damage already done has been put back to normal. ... Maybe it's a bit of symantics on my part. Maybe it's also how long the remission lasts and if other physical improvements are experienced that had been compromized in the uncontrolled or even tightly controlled state.
Cure = once the treatment is over, you don't have the problem anymore. Broken arm -> get a cast, wait a few weeks -> cast gets off -> no broken arm anymore and no further steps have to be taken.
Remission = you still have it throughout the whole process. Diabetes -> you get your insulin under control through diet etc. -> no symptoms anymore but you'll always have to keep your insulin in check, there is never going to be a point at which you can eat anything without thinking about it like healthy people.7
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.3K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 424 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions