Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
They Aren't Curves, They're Fat Rolls
Options
Replies
-
Curves vs. rolls comes down to genetics, age and fitness levels, IMO. Someone gaining weight in the midsection (beer belly) will have more rolls than someone who gains weight on their hips and thighs. The slightly overweight model that was posted early on gained in the hips and thighs. If those extra 20lbs were in her trunk, I doubt she'd be modelling.
Interesting perception. The model pictured is 5'9", 201 pounds per this site:
http://healthyceleb.com/ashley-graham-height-weight-body-statistics/40966
This is a BMI of 29.7, which is much closer to obese at 30.0 vs normal weight at a BMI less than 25. And she is not "muscular".
And I wouldn't be shocked there was a bit of fudging on the weight so it would not show her as the obese category.
2 -
Packerjohn wrote: »Curves vs. rolls comes down to genetics, age and fitness levels, IMO. Someone gaining weight in the midsection (beer belly) will have more rolls than someone who gains weight on their hips and thighs. The slightly overweight model that was posted early on gained in the hips and thighs. If those extra 20lbs were in her trunk, I doubt she'd be modelling.
Interesting perception. The model pictured is 5'9", 201 pounds per this site:
http://healthyceleb.com/ashley-graham-height-weight-body-statistics/40966
This is a BMI of 29.7, which is much closer to obese at 30.0 vs normal weight at a BMI less than 25. And she is not "muscular".
And I wouldn't be shocked there was a bit of fudging on the weight so it would not show her as the obese category.
She shows my point. She carries her weight very well- in the hips and legs and not in the waist.
I am one inch shorter. This is a picture of me at my heaviest of close to 190 lbs. I carried most of my weight around my middle. Where the weight is carried, genetically speaking, largely determines if one has rolls or curves. I had rolls. Hers look more curvy. It's still just fat. Hers is just placed in more desirable spots.
TBH, I would not be surprised if they boosted her weight to make the point that she is an overweight model, like they do with professional athletes. LOL
Breasts are largely fat too. Though with many models there may have been other stuff implanted. But there can be a few pounds carried there too. Those get called curves and not rolls. LOL
Age is also a factor, as is fitness levels. Twenty plus years from now, perimeopause may cause her to lose her bum nd gain in the gut too.4 -
I don't even understand the point that's trying to be made anymore. Everyone acknowledges Ashley Graham is overweight, especially Ashley Graham. Is she still curvy? Of course. Can she still be beautiful? Aboslutely. So what's the point? I don't think anyone has used her as a perfect example of health and fitness.6
-
True. But fat is fat. Doesn't make them "Curvy" like the enabling industry would have us believe. Again, calling a duck a duck. And the sooner we start taking responsibility and stop making excuses then the healthier we'll become quicker.
It sounds like you've got the back-assward solution to the wrong problem. Are you complaining about the incidence of obesity in a population? Are you complaining about the advertising of commercial food in your part of the world? Are you complaining about your tax burden to support socialized medical expenses of treating obese individuals in your country? Or are you lamenting that your hyper-local flesh market is not porn worthy?8 -
An obese person isn't "curvy". It's fat rolls. Tired of the political correctness and marketing ploys.
I'm still over-weight but used to be 30lbs heavier. I was FAT. Period! I'm still over-weight but getting there slowly but surely.
Let's stop lying and enabling and start being honest and do what we have to do. Let's call a duck a duck and stop dodging and ignoring the obesity problem we have here. A least in the US. Start helping out, which includes HONESTY.
Being decent human being who doesn't give unsolicited opinions on other peoples' bodies is not "politically correct." It seems lately when someone says "politically correct" lately, they are simply referring to their "right" to be an *kitten* or discriminate against someone different from them. If a heavy person wants to lose weight and they as you about it, sure, be honest but kind. Otherwise, mind your own business. Just sayin'.8 -
born_of_fire74 wrote: »born_of_fire74 wrote: »She's very pretty but those are not the legs of a fit person.
We're talking about fat, though, not fit. And honestly, I don't think we can deduce anyone's fitness by how their legs look.
Sure you can. The bumpy, lumpy skin on her thighs looks that way due to cellulite. Cellulite is fat. Stubborn fat that is distressingly easy to accumulate and distressingly difficult to shed but it's fat. My legs looked just like that when I was heavier (30%BF) and don't now that I'm fit (23%BF). You'll be hard pressed to find cellulite deposits on fit people.
Oh really? I have cellulite and I consider myself a very fit person. I also have pretty muscular legs and lower bodyfat. It has nothing do to with fitness.
Totally! you can be thin and still have cellulite. Women especially are very prone to it, and once it's there, not much short of surgery will remove it. I had an ex (*kitten*) point out the cellulite on my very fit legs when I weighed about 125 pounds.2 -
peaceout_aly wrote: »I mean, I do have to agree with this. Kinda goes hand in hand with the *unpopular fitness/health opinion" thread. A lot of people on there were saying the same thing.
Fat is fat, and the political correctness movement has everyone pandering to these people and encouraging them to remain the same and accept themselves instead of change unhealthy ways. I get it. Some people carry weight differently, and I agree with the statement that someone said earlier about fat people that are perfectly hour glass figured and healthy people who have fat rolls (HI! I am one of them!) However, if someone is obese, it should not be glorified. Good for them if they are happy with their appearance, but don't encourage others to be complacent and not live a healthier life.
I definitely agree "fat is fat." But I also think a person SHOULD love themselves , even when fat. Self-love and health do not have to be mutually exclusive. A person can be trying to lose weight but still love themselves, and since not everyone CAN lose the weight, why should a fat person not be able to "be happy with who they are?" That said, if they want the help, they can ask for it.
3 -
To go back to the original post:
Does calling people fat help them be less fat?
Nah, but lying to them and trying make it acceptable so they don't have hurt feelings isn't helping anyone either. In fact, it probably does more harm than good. There is a definite promotion of obesity being "okay", especially when it comes to women.
Being obese, no matter what your body type is not good for you. It's so bad for our bodies I don't even want to get started on that tangent and I'm saying this as someone with a significant amount of weight to lose. I made this fat, now it's time to own it and get rid of it. We, as a society, should be encouraging people to be at a healthy, normal weight. If you look at magazines from 30+ years ago, all the women looked relatively normal, you saw some rolls, imperfect teeth etc, but nowhere were they promoting 200lbs+ as healthy. We also really need to stop airbrushing away the flaws because I think it sets up a standard for beauty that is absolutely unattainable.5 -
Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »bigmuneymfp wrote: »
I am very surprised people find this body type attractive as I think she should lose weight and looks unhealthily large.
I think OP may just be getting at the fact that "curvy" people are just fat and need to stop calling it curvy because it's just a way to excuse being overweight and actually promotes it and gives the impression being overweight is 100% normal and ok. And that is the last thing we need when 70% of the country is overweight. I read a few studies showing how people's perception has changed. Many kids growing up in this generation only see overweight adults and think it is normal. Overweight is normal. Being at a healthy BMI is not the norm, as sad as it is.
You are surprised that people find different body types attractive? Really?
No, I know that some people find overweight bodies attractive. It just always surprises me that it seems like most people actual think it IS more attractive to be slightly overweight since I am not at all. Even my guy friends seem to like slightly overweight body types and it still is just interesting for me to hear.
If you look at any classical art you'll find being overweight has been considered attractive for large portions of our history. It has been seen as a sign of plenty, fertility, and comfort. Things we take for granted now but were highly prized luxuries for most of human existence.
There is a huge difference between overweight and obese. Most men do not find *obese* bodies attractive- even a long time ago. What we promote as acceptable today is obesity. I don't think most people here are crying about a woman who has an extra 20-30lbs on their frame. We're talking about calling someone who's clearly 250-300lbs "curvy" for the sake of being pc. No, just no. I agree with OP.
Just want to note, I'm also not advocating hating on fat people either (I am one currently); as no one knows what someone goes through to have gained the weight to begin with. Most of my weight gain was due to severe bouts of PPD and I certainly wouldn't want someone thinking I just shove my face full of food and don't care. I think most obese people do care and would like to do something about it but telling them they're fine just as they are only perpetuates the inertia a lot of fat people have.
As for the comments on peoples' bodies, I have had literally ZERO people come up and comment on my body since I gained weight. So, I can only imagine that people who do get comments probably post pictures on the interwebz. And truthfully, while I agree that your body is no one's business but your own, an exception is made when you publicly post pictures of yourself on instagram, facebook or whatever, promoting some sort of body image as "healthy". You're essentially inviting people to comment on your body. You have to expect that. You don't want the comments, don't post.13 -
Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »bigmuneymfp wrote: »
I am very surprised people find this body type attractive as I think she should lose weight and looks unhealthily large.
I think OP may just be getting at the fact that "curvy" people are just fat and need to stop calling it curvy because it's just a way to excuse being overweight and actually promotes it and gives the impression being overweight is 100% normal and ok. And that is the last thing we need when 70% of the country is overweight. I read a few studies showing how people's perception has changed. Many kids growing up in this generation only see overweight adults and think it is normal. Overweight is normal. Being at a healthy BMI is not the norm, as sad as it is.
You are surprised that people find different body types attractive? Really?
No, I know that some people find overweight bodies attractive. It just always surprises me that it seems like most people actual think it IS more attractive to be slightly overweight since I am not at all. Even my guy friends seem to like slightly overweight body types and it still is just interesting for me to hear.
If you look at any classical art you'll find being overweight has been considered attractive for large portions of our history. It has been seen as a sign of plenty, fertility, and comfort. Things we take for granted now but were highly prized luxuries for most of human existence.
Not in classical art. Classical art is from the Ancient Greek and Romans and their mosaics, wall murals and statues showed very athletic bodies for men and softer but thin pear shaped women. I think you are thinking of the artist Ruben and "rubenesque" art which was a movement that lasted around fifty years in the early 1600s. It was during this renaissance period that fuller figured women were appreciated. But it wasn't a very long period of history at all.6 -
People in glass houses shouldnt be throwing stones. Think your perfect and can insult other people? post some pics, lets us critique your looks.
I will NEVER fat shame a woman ever. Period. They get enough of that from "beauty magazines" and the media.
softening the wording people use about themselves and others is about DEPRESSION. if you cant understand this, keep your mouth shut.10 -
Oh great, so this has turned into "Let's dissect and pass judgement on the plus size model's body".
I guess if nothing else, the trajectory of this thread stands in disagreement with the idea that our society routinely approves of "fat" women. Society routinely makes women feel like crap about their bodies, and holds up a handful of outside the normal rules celebrities (like Williams, Graham, and Kim K) to try to prove otherwise, but of course make sure there is plenty of opportunity to make fun of their bodies as well.9 -
Oh great, so this has turned into "Let's dissect and pass judgement on the plus size model's body".
I guess if nothing else, the trajectory of this thread stands in disagreement with the idea that our society routinely approves of "fat" women. Society routinely makes women feel like crap about their bodies, and holds up a handful of outside the normal rules celebrities (like Williams, Graham, and Kim K) to try to prove otherwise, but of course make sure there is plenty of opportunity to make fun of their bodies as well.
Yes, I was thinking this too. Anyone who feels that our society has even begun to normalize and accept obesity, while feeling perfectly comfortable bashing and shaming fat people... it just baffles me. And really, since we aren't mincing words, this thread has largely been about body shaming and the language around it.
There are many reasons to lose weight, and each person needs to make their own decisions in their own time. There is enough guilt and shame attached to obesity, and many people are creating the storm in their own minds. I don't see how a few people being comfortable in their own skin can be such an affront to people's sensibilities.8 -
Oh great, so this has turned into "Let's dissect and pass judgement on the plus size model's body".
I guess if nothing else, the trajectory of this thread stands in disagreement with the idea that our society routinely approves of "fat" women. Society routinely makes women feel like crap about their bodies, and holds up a handful of outside the normal rules celebrities (like Williams, Graham, and Kim K) to try to prove otherwise, but of course make sure there is plenty of opportunity to make fun of their bodies as well.
I find the whole thing funny. From bashing cellulite, which many women have, to picking out pictures of people at their highest weight just to try and locate some rolls (which by the way, even some normal weight people have), to I don't know what else, all to prove a some convoluted point about a choice of term. Fine, don't call curvey higher weight women curvey, call them "hourglass", or is that also a term only thinner women should have? It's just a body shape, and it's just a word. Get over it. Use the words you like, and let others use the words they like.
None of this means obesity is healthy, and none of this whole rant over words claiming to come at it from a "health" perspective presents a solution. It's interesting how often people enjoy dissecting women one way or the other, and it's also interesting how when it comes to tanning people can be suntanned and considered attractive but very few voice "concern" about their health.7 -
Society:Be yourself
Me: OK
Society: No, not like that
I say the above to show that Society is full of conflicting messages. I don't think Society is all for or against fat/fat shaming etc..Society espouses both stances simultaneously. One on side you have the body positivity movement that is about self love at any size or shape and it tells you to not to shame yourself or anyone else because of their bodies. Then on the other you have media constantly showing celebrities in their bikinis/swim trunks and being critical of their bodies, indicating that it's ok to criticise others bodies and therefore to have your body criticised if you put it on public view.3 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »Oh great, so this has turned into "Let's dissect and pass judgement on the plus size model's body".
I guess if nothing else, the trajectory of this thread stands in disagreement with the idea that our society routinely approves of "fat" women. Society routinely makes women feel like crap about their bodies, and holds up a handful of outside the normal rules celebrities (like Williams, Graham, and Kim K) to try to prove otherwise, but of course make sure there is plenty of opportunity to make fun of their bodies as well.
I find the whole thing funny. From bashing cellulite, which many women have, to picking out pictures of people at their highest weight just to try and locate some rolls (which by the way, even some normal weight people have), to I don't know what else, all to prove a some convoluted point about a choice of term. Fine, don't call curvey higher weight women curvey, call them "hourglass", or is that also a term only thinner women should have? It's just a body shape, and it's just a word. Get over it. Use the words you like, and let others use the words they like.
None of this means obesity is healthy, and none of this whole rant over words claiming to come at it from a "health" perspective presents a solution. It's interesting how often people enjoy dissecting women one way or the other, and it's also interesting how when it comes to tanning people can be suntanned and considered attractive but very few voice "concern" about their health.
Yup, absolutely ridiculous. Curvy and hourglass are specific body types that exist pretty much no matter how much a woman weighs unless they become severely medically underweight and it drastically changes their body ratios.
Right now at my heaviest I am fat. I am technically obese. I also have a 13" difference between my waist and my bust, and an 11" difference between my waist and hips. When I was in the normal category, 5'7" and around 150lbs, I have a 12"difference between waist and bust and 11" between waist and hips.
My proportions don't change. I'm curvy. I'm a full on, 8% of the female population hourglass figure. Yes I'm fat/obese but I can be BOTH. If I call myself curvy I'm not being delusional, it's an accurate description of my body type.
People need to just chill. And since when is it ok to post pictures of ppl and call them gross? I see more body bashing on this forum than I have ever come across in every day life. And with all the ppl trying to lose weight around here these posters MUST know that potential hundreds of overweight women are seeing these posts and going, "So you're posting pictures of an overweight model and calling her gross. My butt, back, tummy, rolls etc are similar or larger than hers. So you think I'm gross too? Harsh."*
Like, get some common decency. Learn diplomacy. Have some damn tact.
*same goes for when people post pics of underweight or really muscular people and call them horrible things. A body type may not be to your taste but why use such hurtful terms like "gross" and "grotesque"???15 -
I have closed this discussion because the nature of much of it amounted to body shaming. Note I am not saying that was anyone's intent per se.
Thanks to many of the community members who posted here. I appreciate much of the dialog, while the subject is problematic, there still remains a lot of insightful discussion and respectful rebuttal.9
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.6K Introduce Yourself
- 43.5K Getting Started
- 259.7K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 392 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.2K MyFitnessPal Information
- 23 News and Announcements
- 929 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.3K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions