Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Fat Acceptance Movement
Replies
-
This is one of the most boldly honest posts I've seen here or anywhere. Thank you for sharingfitforeternity493 wrote: »Fat Acceptance is Death Acceptance.. It's that simple.. I say that as a formally obese person.. I wasn't shamed directly or mostly because I was tall but still looked extremely overweight.. But I got fat shamed in very subtle ways from looks of disgust to rude waiters.. I still kept myself groomed and neat despite my weight gain but that wasn't enough.. I even got denied a job because of my weight. I knew I was overweight but didn't really comprehend how much I gained until I stepped a scale at the Doctors.. I wanted to be desired and chased by tall fit men and women despite my fatness, without any regard to basic biology and that on some level a man isn't going to desire a 215 pound woman that's 5"9.
I was highly insecure around pretty slim girls and would get angry when men and women treated my thin friends with so much more compassion and human decency than I. It's not to say people called me fatty or were abusive but I was disregarded and no man went out of his way to hold the door open for me unlike for my thin or slimmer sized friends.. Despite that I tried to remain humble and said society has issues, rather than lash out on my thin friends.
Today I'm a size 14 and honestly soo much has changed.. I'm happier and have more energy.. I eat correctly and don't do extremes.. But with my weight loss came the loss of some friendships.. A couple of my friends that were slim pushed the idea of fat acceptance on me the heavier I got and told me to settle for the body I had.. They called me brave for wearing crop tops but laughed behind my back (I later found out) and called me a hot mess for being fat.. In reality they were insecure of themselves and loved having the "fat friend" around. It did take time to heal from that and trust people again but once I did, I was like a flower that bloomed..
I believe that people should be secure with themselves and have respect for other human beings.. However I don't believe that we should settle for mediocrity and accept unhealthy habits.
4 -
Actually they do. I work on a research study about the effects of obesity in children and because of the images now being shown as healthy/normal 4/5 do not even see themselves and being obese. That is why these type of ads shock me because I see the effects first hand. They see images such as these and other advertising promoting the fact that plus size is perfectly healthy and completely normal. Obviously one measly random ad won't make people fat. It's the idea behind it. The fact that the majority of the population is overweight and when you grow up seeing nothing but that you think it's just normal and your perception is warped. I would much rather see healthy sized women in the HEALTHY BMI range. There is no need to show more and more images of obesity which just solidifies it as normal... not good5
-
If you google the issue you can even find similar studies showing the same results.0
-
My fathers side of the family are pretty obese, with that being said, I love my family and anyone that has confidence in their big body but I do not. I won't. I am 21 years old and I almost died [felt like it] going up the steps. Not healthy at all. >_< It is easy to gain weight and not count calories and eat what you want, I prefer the challenge of getting my fitness in check.
I love everyone though 
fat acceptance isn't for me.
3 -
Fat acceptance isn't asking much. Not that you agree with someone's life style. Not that you date or sleep with us. Not that you even compliment us if we have the audacity to go out in a swimsuit or tank top. It's just asking that you have the understanding that everyone's at their own specific point in their own, very personal, journey towards all facets of health - including mental health.
We're all just trying to get by. And it's definitely harder in many ways when you're fat. So, why make it harder?
Some people struggle with coping mechanisms and turn to food. Some don't have time management skills and don't find time to meal plan or exercise. Some smoke or drink or whatever. We're all just humans and we all have our issues and there's no reason to make it worse by being critical.
Trust me - every fat adult has already heard every single thing about the dangers of obesity... from family members, doctors, teachers, documentaries, commercials, etc. Just let fat people live and if anything, be their friend and show them how great your healthy life is and make it so irresistible they'll want to join in.5 -
There seems to be a great deal of strawmen constructed in this thread.
I'm not seeing where anyone is condoning abusive behavior.
What I am seeing is a rational conclusion that being obese is not healthy, that you should always love yourself regardless of aesthetics, but you should love yourself enough to stay healthy.
100% agree, but have to point out that to "love yourself enough to stay healthy" is really almost impossible when you're constantly being told how horrible you are.2 -
MJ2victory wrote: »There seems to be a great deal of strawmen constructed in this thread.
I'm not seeing where anyone is condoning abusive behavior.
What I am seeing is a rational conclusion that being obese is not healthy, that you should always love yourself regardless of aesthetics, but you should love yourself enough to stay healthy.
100% agree, but have to point out that to "love yourself enough to stay healthy" is really almost impossible when you're constantly being told how horrible you are.
I think I've found the problem: needing external validation.5 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »There seems to be a great deal of strawmen constructed in this thread.
I'm not seeing where anyone is condoning abusive behavior.
What I am seeing is a rational conclusion that being obese is not healthy, that you should always love yourself regardless of aesthetics, but you should love yourself enough to stay healthy.
100% agree, but have to point out that to "love yourself enough to stay healthy" is really almost impossible when you're constantly being told how horrible you are.
I think I've found the problem: needing external validation.
It's not needing external validation, it's being beaten down by a lifetime of opposition and disapproval. Once again, about ACCEPTANCE not VALIDATION.1 -
MJ2victory wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »There seems to be a great deal of strawmen constructed in this thread.
I'm not seeing where anyone is condoning abusive behavior.
What I am seeing is a rational conclusion that being obese is not healthy, that you should always love yourself regardless of aesthetics, but you should love yourself enough to stay healthy.
100% agree, but have to point out that to "love yourself enough to stay healthy" is really almost impossible when you're constantly being told how horrible you are.
I think I've found the problem: needing external validation.
It's not needing external validation, it's being beaten down by a lifetime of opposition and disapproval. Once again, about ACCEPTANCE not VALIDATION.
The problem with the very vocal fat acceptance / HAES folks is there's simply no way to please them. Applaud their efforts and you're being condescending; ignore their efforts and you're part of the problem. Point out the flaws in their talking points (or worse, ask for clarification) and you're a troll.
From these dirtbags, you'll get arguments based on whatever nonsense they believe is true, and if you're not fat and supportive your opinion has no value despite the *kitten* they're peddling.
They can take their *kitten* attitudes, overweening baseless sense of pride, and fragile egos and *kitten* off into the sunset.7 -
Nah, ignoring is just fine. Ignore fat happy people all you want. Not sure what your "*kitten*" thing means and neither does google.1
-
It's how MFP filters 'naughty' words.0
-
ahhhh thanks friend.
tbh whatever. Hate fat ppl all you want but why tell them? Sadism?1 -
MJ2victory wrote: »ahhhh thanks friend.
tbh whatever. Hate fat ppl all you want but why tell them? Sadism?
In general, I'd agree. However, some people just intentionally put giant neon 'Kick Me' signs on themselves, so the whole movement can scream victim when someone inevitably obliges. Tess Holliday is a shining example.4 -
CipherZero wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »There seems to be a great deal of strawmen constructed in this thread.
I'm not seeing where anyone is condoning abusive behavior.
What I am seeing is a rational conclusion that being obese is not healthy, that you should always love yourself regardless of aesthetics, but you should love yourself enough to stay healthy.
100% agree, but have to point out that to "love yourself enough to stay healthy" is really almost impossible when you're constantly being told how horrible you are.
I think I've found the problem: needing external validation.
It's not needing external validation, it's being beaten down by a lifetime of opposition and disapproval. Once again, about ACCEPTANCE not VALIDATION.
The problem with the very vocal fat acceptance / HAES folks is there's simply no way to please them. Applaud their efforts and you're being condescending; ignore their efforts and you're part of the problem. Point out the flaws in their talking points (or worse, ask for clarification) and you're a troll.
From these dirtbags, you'll get arguments based on whatever nonsense they believe is true, and if you're not fat and supportive your opinion has no value despite the *kitten* they're peddling.
They can take their *kitten* attitudes, overweening baseless sense of pride, and fragile egos and *kitten* off into the sunset.
Well this explains way more than just HAES. this is the internet in a nutshell regardless of topic!3 -
stormcrow2 wrote: »CipherZero wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »There seems to be a great deal of strawmen constructed in this thread.
I'm not seeing where anyone is condoning abusive behavior.
What I am seeing is a rational conclusion that being obese is not healthy, that you should always love yourself regardless of aesthetics, but you should love yourself enough to stay healthy.
100% agree, but have to point out that to "love yourself enough to stay healthy" is really almost impossible when you're constantly being told how horrible you are.
I think I've found the problem: needing external validation.
It's not needing external validation, it's being beaten down by a lifetime of opposition and disapproval. Once again, about ACCEPTANCE not VALIDATION.
The problem with the very vocal fat acceptance / HAES folks is there's simply no way to please them. Applaud their efforts and you're being condescending; ignore their efforts and you're part of the problem. Point out the flaws in their talking points (or worse, ask for clarification) and you're a troll.
From these dirtbags, you'll get arguments based on whatever nonsense they believe is true, and if you're not fat and supportive your opinion has no value despite the *kitten* they're peddling.
They can take their *kitten* attitudes, overweening baseless sense of pride, and fragile egos and *kitten* off into the sunset.
Well this explains way more than just HAES. this is humanity in a nutshell regardless of topic!
Fixed that for you.7 -
Well, Tess is just an awful person for a lot of reasons that have nothing to do with her fattness tbh... different convo for different time/place.
I'm just talking about accepting that fat people are allowed to live without being harassed for our fattness. Health is a very personal issue and there's no reason to take time and energy from your own journey to judge someone else's.8 -
Great perception @MJ2victory. At 66 I have decided judging others is something that happens when I refuse to look at and correct my own personal harmful actions. Trying to control others I now believe can lead to one's own premature death and lower quality of life leading up to the premature death.1
-
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »stormcrow2 wrote: »CipherZero wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »There seems to be a great deal of strawmen constructed in this thread.
I'm not seeing where anyone is condoning abusive behavior.
What I am seeing is a rational conclusion that being obese is not healthy, that you should always love yourself regardless of aesthetics, but you should love yourself enough to stay healthy.
100% agree, but have to point out that to "love yourself enough to stay healthy" is really almost impossible when you're constantly being told how horrible you are.
I think I've found the problem: needing external validation.
It's not needing external validation, it's being beaten down by a lifetime of opposition and disapproval. Once again, about ACCEPTANCE not VALIDATION.
The problem with the very vocal fat acceptance / HAES folks is there's simply no way to please them. Applaud their efforts and you're being condescending; ignore their efforts and you're part of the problem. Point out the flaws in their talking points (or worse, ask for clarification) and you're a troll.
From these dirtbags, you'll get arguments based on whatever nonsense they believe is true, and if you're not fat and supportive your opinion has no value despite the *kitten* they're peddling.
They can take their *kitten* attitudes, overweening baseless sense of pride, and fragile egos and *kitten* off into the sunset.
Well this explains way more than just HAES. this is humanity in a nutshell regardless of topic!
Fixed that for you.
agreed. even better0 -
I guess I just wanna share my actual experience. When dieting, so many people focus on punishing themselves for being fat and I know bc I did it. I lost 80 lbs by hating myself and depriving myself and doing exercises that I hated... it worked for a while but the thing is, I still hated myself.
And bc I didn't think I deserved good things, I didn't take care of myself with nourishing foods or exercises that would increase my ability to live a full life. And my life was devoid of happiness so when the weight loss didn't make me happy any more, I turned to my only source of comfort, food.
It took learning that I do deserve to be happy and feel good to realize that I wanted to feed my body foods that make it feel good, and operate well. I don't want to deal with feeling that food hangover after a big fast food meal or too many pieces of pizza. So I'm back on mfp to keep myself accountable for those things.
Maybe I'll lose weight and maybe I won't... but I'd rather be fat and feel good physically and mentally than thin and hate myself. So, shame me or mock me or say I'm promoting obesity... but I choose to feel good and love myself, and honestly I hope you find this happiness and self love yourself bc it's really a lot better than the alternative.18 -
Some people are fat based on genetics. Also skinny people who don't take care of themselves don't get judged as harshly. I think people should be allowed to be fat if that's the life they choose. Fat is often a correlation with a disease, not the causation. Judging people for whether or not they are ill is wrong. Judging people for being fat is wrong.10
-
At what point did this all get so misconstrued? Nobody ever said go get fat it's awesome, nobody ever said skinny sucks. It's about accepting who you are right now and understanding you deserve self love, no matter your size. Without self love and worth, how will you even care enough to lose weight or work out ? And there are a few people,who truly can't lose weight or have medical conditions that make weight loss extremely hard to impossible... they too have a right to self love and be accepted for who they are. Bottom line, don t judge unless your God.8
-
At what point did this all get so misconstrued? Nobody ever said go get fat it's awesome, nobody ever said skinny sucks. It's about accepting who you are right now and understanding you deserve self love, no matter your size. Without self love and worth, how will you even care enough to lose weight or work out ? And there are a few people,who truly can't lose weight or have medical conditions that make weight loss extremely hard to impossible... they too have a right to self love and be accepted for who they are. Bottom line, don t judge unless your God.
You are exactly right in your post (+1 like from me!) However, the fat acceptance movement DOES give out a message of "Get fat, it's awesome" and "skinny sucks." You only need to look at the work of Tess Holliday, Virgie Tovar, Ragen Chastain, Kath Read, Kelly Jean Drinkwater and other such activists to see this.7 -
thickspo91 wrote: »Some people are fat based on genetics. Also skinny people who don't take care of themselves don't get judged as harshly. I think people should be allowed to be fat if that's the life they choose. Fat is often a correlation with a disease, not the causation. Judging people for whether or not they are ill is wrong. Judging people for being fat is wrong.
No one is fat because of genetics. And being fat is a risk factor for many diseases including cancer, diabetes and heart disease.9 -
I read a report that said that in 2015 worldwide, it is estimated that four million people died due to excess body weight. In addition, it is expected that this year deaths from obesity caused cancer will exceed deaths from smoking caused cancer. Because excess fat is deadly, I can never accept it as a good or desirable thing. Yeah, I accept that most people are now overweight or obese as that is reality, but I absolutely refuse to accept it as "ok." This whole idea of don't judge is also ludicrous to my mind, I see a smoker then I know for a fact that person is engaging in self destructive behaviour. The same with a fat person...the existence of the extra fat is visual evidence of self destructive behaviour. So yes you can see it and yes I can absolutely make a judgement about the fact that they have a higher risk of an early death which is entirely preventable by that person. I would never shame or cat call or make snide remarks to a fat person, but I'm not going to lie and say they look stunning or are just fine the way they are.5
-
Which cancer(s) does obesity cause, @Macy9336? This is news to me.2
-
clicketykeys wrote: »Which cancer(s) does obesity cause, @Macy9336? This is news to me.
https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/obesity/obesity-fact-sheet
It's not a one to one relation: not every obese person gets a certain type of cancer, but several types of cancers are much more common in obese individuals than in normal weight individuals;
Despite the limitations of the study designs, there is consistent evidence that higher amounts of body fat are associated with increased risks of a number of cancers (6), including:- Endometrial cancer: Obese and overweight women are two to about four times as likely as normal-weight women to develop endometrial cancer (cancer of the lining of the uterus), and extremely obese women are about seven times as likely to develop the more common of the two main types of this cancer (7). The risk of endometrial cancer increases with increasing weight gain in adulthood, particularly among women who have never used menopausal hormone therapy (8).
- Esophageal adenocarcinoma: People who are overweight or obese are about twice as likely as normal-weight people to develop a type of esophageal cancer called esophageal adenocarcinoma, and people who are extremely obese are more than four times as likely (9).
- Gastric cardia cancer: People who are obese are nearly twice as likely as normal-weight people to develop cancer in the upper part of the stomach, that is, the part that is closest to the esophagus (10).
- Liver cancer: People who are overweight or obese are up to twice as likely as normal-weight people to develop liver cancer. The association between overweight/obesity and liver cancer is stronger in men than women (11, 12).
- Kidney cancer: People who are overweight or obese are nearly twice as likely as normal-weight people to develop renal cell cancer, the most common form of kidney cancer (13). The association of renal cell cancer with obesity is independent of its association with high blood pressure, a known risk factor for kidney cancer (14).
- Multiple myeloma: Compared with normal-weight individuals, overweight and obese individuals have a slight (10% to 20%) increase in the risk of developing multiple myeloma (15).
- Meningioma: The risk of this slow-growing brain tumor that arises in the membranes surrounding the brain and the spinal cord is increased by about 50% in people who are obese and about 20% in people who are overweight (16).
- Pancreatic cancer: People who are overweight or obese are about 1.5 times as likely to develop pancreatic cancer as normal-weight people (17).
- Colorectal cancer: People who are obese are slightly (about 30%) more likely to develop colorectal cancer than normal-weight people. A higher BMI is associated with increased risks of colon and rectal cancers in both men and in women, but the increases are higher in men than in women (18).
- Gallbladder cancer: Compared with normal-weight people, people who are overweight have a slight (about 20%) increase in risk of gallbladder cancer, and people who are obese have a 60% increase in risk of gallbladder cancer (19, 20). The risk increase is greater in women than men.
- Breast cancer: Many studies have shown that, in postmenopausal women, a higher BMI is associated with a modest increase in risk of breast cancer. For example, a 5-unit increase in BMI is associated with a 12% increase in risk (21). Among postmenopausal women, those who are obese have a 20% to 40% increase in risk of developing breast cancer compared with normal-weight women (22). The higher risks are seen mainly in women who have never used menopausal hormone therapy and for tumors that express hormone receptors. Obesity is also a risk factor for breast cancer in men (23).
- Ovarian cancer: Higher BMI is associated with a slight increase in the risk of ovarian cancer, particularly in women who have never used menopausal hormone therapy (24). For example, a 5-unit increase in BMI is associated with a 10% increase in risk among women who have never used menopausal hormone therapy (24).
- Thyroid cancer: Higher BMI (specifically, a 5-unit increase in BMI) is associated with a slight (10%) increase in the risk of thyroid cancer (25).
6 -
Oh, okay, I *had* heard about risk factors. But the use of the word 'cause' threw me and made me wonder if I'd missed something major. Thanks!2
-
clicketykeys wrote: »Oh, okay, I *had* heard about risk factors. But the use of the word 'cause' threw me and made me wonder if I'd missed something major. Thanks!
All causes are just risk factors. There's no one thing that will always 100% of the time cause a certain cancer. Not even smoking.3 -
stevencloser wrote: »clicketykeys wrote: »Oh, okay, I *had* heard about risk factors. But the use of the word 'cause' threw me and made me wonder if I'd missed something major. Thanks!
All causes are just risk factors. There's no one thing that will always 100% of the time cause a certain cancer. Not even smoking.
Exactly this. We all have known plenty of people who made it into their 80s and 90s while choking down Lucky Strike and Camel unfiltered for seven decades, with nary the first glimpse of cancer.
That doesn't make it a good idea.
ETA: amusingly, there are precisely ZERO studies showing smoking as a direct cause of any of the ills in humans that it's known for. Lots of correlation work, but no actual causative. Why? It would never get past an ethics committee.3 -
At what point did this all get so misconstrued? Nobody ever said go get fat it's awesome, nobody ever said skinny sucks. It's about accepting who you are right now and understanding you deserve self love, no matter your size. Without self love and worth, how will you even care enough to lose weight or work out ? And there are a few people,who truly can't lose weight or have medical conditions that make weight loss extremely hard to impossible... they too have a right to self love and be accepted for who they are. Bottom line, don t judge unless your God.
You are exactly right in your post (+1 like from me!) However, the fat acceptance movement DOES give out a message of "Get fat, it's awesome" and "skinny sucks." You only need to look at the work of Tess Holliday, Virgie Tovar, Ragen Chastain, Kath Read, Kelly Jean Drinkwater and other such activists to see this.
do you have proof? I've never seen anything like that.1
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.6K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.3K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.5K Recipes
- 232.6K Fitness and Exercise
- 431 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.6K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.8K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions