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Fat Acceptance Movement
Replies
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stevencloser wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Tempted to call this a "today in things that never happened" but I do try to have an open mind and am willing to be proven wrong. I care about truth.
But, recall, even if someone has, under the guise of fat acceptance, said inaccurate or ignorant things... accepting fat people, at its core, is still a good idea.
You can also go into the "Unpopular opinions" thread in here for a live example of someone outright denying obesity is a health risk.
Oh wait, that's you yourself. Ironic.6 -
Heather_MXP wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »The choices are not either genetics cause obesity or fat people are only fat because they are lazy and indulgent.
One issue with the microbiome argument is that what you eat changes your microbiome -- it's not like you just have what you have and are stuck with it (absent some fecal transplant or the like).
Sure. I agree 100% that it's not either/or. But there is an attitude that it's all self-inflicted, as if everyone starts out with the same body situation, etc, (as is obvious in the "what gene" question)... which is obviously not the case.
I also agree that one's microbiome changes with one's diet. But it's still a factor in controlling one's cravings (and even their will-power). I've also read that once someone "ruins" their microbiome with a refined carb diet, it will never go back to microbiome it was / "could have been" on a high fiber, whole foods, etc, diet.
Your microbiome is in constant fluctuation and will never be constant even if you ate the same regimented diet and followed the same routine day in/day out. These are competing bacterial strains and in constant struggle to compete over the resources available. While this is a variable, it is a very short term variable and has little impact on the long term.
I never said it stayed exactly the same from day to day. But, I don't think it's accurate to say there is no long term impact from diet. There was an entire section about it in Ed Yong's book. I looked up a few of the studies from the footnotes and there does seem to be evidence that one can permanently alter their microbiome with their diet. Obviously that could be proven wrong in the future. But I'm pretty sure that's the current understanding of the research that has been done.0 -
MJ2victory wrote: »willdarr79 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »I maintain that being hateful and disrespectful towards fat people does a lot towards keep us fat.
I have seen literally nobody in this thread saying that being hateful is ok. The question is whether or not people should be celebrating the fact that they are fat instead of trying to become more healthy. I haven't seen anyone say that fat shaming is ok, only that we shouldn't be glorifying being unhealthy.
but the thing is that accepting your body and deciding to love yourself doesn't necessarily mean you're not trying to become more healthy.
I haven't seen anyone in this thread saying that fat people shouldn't love themselves either. I am fairly certain that isn't in dispute. The negative response to the movement is the glorification of being unhealthy plain and simple. Sure, love yourself, but if you truly do love yourself then maybe try to become healthier so you can stick around for a while.2 -
willdarr79 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »willdarr79 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »I maintain that being hateful and disrespectful towards fat people does a lot towards keep us fat.
I have seen literally nobody in this thread saying that being hateful is ok. The question is whether or not people should be celebrating the fact that they are fat instead of trying to become more healthy. I haven't seen anyone say that fat shaming is ok, only that we shouldn't be glorifying being unhealthy.
but the thing is that accepting your body and deciding to love yourself doesn't necessarily mean you're not trying to become more healthy.
I haven't seen anyone in this thread saying that fat people shouldn't love themselves either. I am fairly certain that isn't in dispute. The negative response to the movement is the glorification of being unhealthy plain and simple. Sure, love yourself, but if you truly do love yourself then maybe try to become healthier so you can stick around for a while.
I think the glorification of obesity is a myth. I've never actually seen it. I 100% agree with what you're saying and think most people would. As I've said over and over, the constant mocking and exclusion of fat people is, for many, the reason they don't love themselves enough to make healthier choices. Though the fat acceptance movement may be vocal, it's small and unpopular.5 -
Heather_MXP wrote: »Heather_MXP wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »The choices are not either genetics cause obesity or fat people are only fat because they are lazy and indulgent.
One issue with the microbiome argument is that what you eat changes your microbiome -- it's not like you just have what you have and are stuck with it (absent some fecal transplant or the like).
Sure. I agree 100% that it's not either/or. But there is an attitude that it's all self-inflicted, as if everyone starts out with the same body situation, etc, (as is obvious in the "what gene" question)... which is obviously not the case.
I also agree that one's microbiome changes with one's diet. But it's still a factor in controlling one's cravings (and even their will-power). I've also read that once someone "ruins" their microbiome with a refined carb diet, it will never go back to microbiome it was / "could have been" on a high fiber, whole foods, etc, diet.
Your microbiome is in constant fluctuation and will never be constant even if you ate the same regimented diet and followed the same routine day in/day out. These are competing bacterial strains and in constant struggle to compete over the resources available. While this is a variable, it is a very short term variable and has little impact on the long term.
I never said it stayed exactly the same from day to day. But, I don't think it's accurate to say there is no long term impact from diet. There was an entire section about it in Ed Yong's book. I looked up a few of the studies from the footnotes and there does seem to be evidence that one can permanently alter their microbiome with their diet. Obviously that could be proven wrong in the future. But I'm pretty sure that's the current understanding of the research that has been done.
You can never permanently alter your microbiome, which is why I made the comment. While we may not have fistulated humans, we have decades worth of environmental data from fistulated swine showing only a minor impact on weight. This is chasing a minor factor - similar to the impact hormones have on weight management.0 -
There have been a LOT of excellent points raised here, on both sides. I am clinically 'morbidly obese', and have been for some time now. Now, for the most part, I've always had an hour-glass figure. My favorite joke has always been that as I got older, there were 'more minutes in the hour', but I kept the same basic shape. I was lucky (in my opinion) that when I gain weight, I gain it everywhere! Some women, (because that's the demographic I belong to, don't mean to leave our 'brothers' out of it), gain weight on top or all in the bottom, or just become kinda round. I stayed pretty proportional as I got bigger. I'm grateful for the cosmetics, but I think it made it a bit harder to notice just how big I was getting. My point is, that for a long, long time I was definitely someone who thought you could be beautiful at ANY size. I was also fond of saying 'sexy is an attitude, not a physical attribute'.
Now, don't get me wrong, for the most part, I still believe those things. You can be big AND beautiful! And how you carry yourself and the person you are can make an average person, stunning or a playmate model ugly! However, there is a LOT of diabetes, high cholesterol and heart disease in my family. I've attended a lot of funerals because of obesity and all the medical complications that come with it. I'm not even 50 years old and I can't play with my 2-year-old grandson because my knees can't handle the weight. My back is in constant pain. I walk to the kitchen to cook dinner and I'm out of breath. The truth is, self-esteem aside, I'm gonna die if I don't make a change.
Is it possible to be healthy and big? Sure it is. Just like there are people who jog and work-out constantly, who are in shape, and then die of heart attacks. They weren't fat. But maybe their cholesterol or blood pressure was bad. So yes, I've seen heavy people who are active, and who certainly have better breath support than I do! Regardless of your size, or your body type, I am of the opinion that if you are healthy, you have energy, you are active and you feel good about yourself, NO ONE should have anything to say about how you look! I agree with every person who has said that shaming people about how they look is just plain, wrong!
Ok. End of rant. LOL4 -
You can never permanently alter your microbiome, which is why I made the comment. While we may not have fistulated humans, we have decades worth of environmental data from fistulated swine showing only a minor impact on weight. This is chasing a minor factor - similar to the impact hormones have on weight management.
Scads of research regarding changes to human microbiomes say otherwise. One doesn't even have to troll scientific journals to find it.2 -
Heather_MXP wrote: »You can never permanently alter your microbiome, which is why I made the comment. While we may not have fistulated humans, we have decades worth of environmental data from fistulated swine showing only a minor impact on weight. This is chasing a minor factor - similar to the impact hormones have on weight management.
Scads of research regarding changes to human microbiomes say otherwise. One doesn't even have to troll scientific journals to find it.
...and any microbiology textbook would disagree. I welcome the citation to the contrary.
It's your use of the word "permanently" I hold issue with. No such thing in the realm of microbiology.3 -
Heather_MXP wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »thickspo91 wrote: »Some people are fat based on genetics. Also skinny people who don't take care of themselves don't get judged as harshly. I think people should be allowed to be fat if that's the life they choose. Fat is often a correlation with a disease, not the causation. Judging people for whether or not they are ill is wrong. Judging people for being fat is wrong.
Which genes cause cancer again?
This is woo of the highest order. Obesity is a result of behavior. Otherwise you would see a similar population of obesity in Somalia (or wherever the latest food shortage/warlord takeover occurs) - or are you suggesting that Somalians are lacking obesity genes?
Errr dude, pretty much everyone involved in oncology agrees that cancer is a genetics/epigenetics problem.
Yup - huge error on my part. Meant to state "Which genes cause obesity again?"
Agree - cancer is by and large genetic with a small population resulting from environmental causes. My n of 1 substantiates this.
There have actually been some interesting studies on epigenetics and obesity. There's also research on microbiomes and obesity. It's not as simple as fat people are lazy and indulgent. It's just not.
The only studies I'm aware of are from the phychological aspect, which are highly dubious and historically hold a poor record on rechallenge and repeatability. Epigenetics in this case are completely out of context and are not some modern equivalent of reading tea leaves. Genetics establishes basic parameters. Your behavior can either accept those or push the boundaries.
You seem fixated on the judgmental aspect of this. No judgement or emotion required. It's a simple matter of eating more than you burn, which is stored as fat. This is primarily dependent on behavior.3 -
...and any microbiology textbook would disagree. I welcome the citation to the contrary.
It's your use of the word "permanently" I hold issue with. No such thing in the realm of microbiology.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v529/n7585/full/nature16504.html
"Here we show that changes in the microbiota of mice consuming a low-MAC diet and harbouring a human microbiota are largely reversible within a single generation. However, over several generations, a low-MAC diet results in a progressive loss of diversity, which is not recoverable after the reintroduction of dietary MACs. To restore the microbiota to its original state requires the administration of missing taxa in combination with dietary MAC consumption. Our data illustrate that taxa driven to low abundance when dietary MACs are scarce are inefficiently transferred to the next generation, and are at increased risk of becoming extinct within an isolated population. As more diseases are linked to the Western microbiota and the microbiota is targeted therapeutically, microbiota reprogramming may need to involve strategies that incorporate dietary MACs as well as taxa not currently present in the Western gut."
Since I don't see my fellow MFP-ers running out for fecal transplants or other microbiota reprogramming, I think you're being terribly pedantic and I stand by my use of the word "permanent."
I'm off to enjoy my evening. So this concludes my participation in this debate.
Cheers.
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My friend was walking to our gym today and some guy yelled at her to " take your fat *kitten* home and put some clothes on
Look at the abuse Olympic gold medalist Sarah Robles faces daily.
Being overweight is certainly not "glorified" as some here have claimed, at least not in Western society.
Fat acceptance is about not judging people. Nobody becomes healthy overnight. It's a lifelong journey. Obesity is something that is easy for people to judge because it's visible to society.
You want to become healthier out of love and care for yourself, not by feeling hopeless, defeated, or worthless - otherwise "what's the point". Many people just need a little support and to be told it's okay not to hate themselves.5 -
Dr__Girlfriend wrote: »You want to become healthier out of love and care for yourself, not by feeling hopeless, defeated, or worthless - otherwise "what's the point". Many people just need a little support and to be told it's okay not to hate themselves.
No one has said it's okay to be hateful to "fat" people. The point is that people that are morbidly obese ARE being glorified for being fat. I don't remember the name of that buzzfeed awful person who is now modeling workout clothes for target, or that other plus size lady who stole money from selling shirts that were supposed to go to some cause, but their whole platform is literally glorifying being a morbidly obese person. They are not trying to be healthier, they are trying to normalize being 150 pounds overweight.6 -
People should love their bodies. But loving your body does not mean loving the fat that makes you unhealthy or could lead to many negative health consequences down the road. That's not love, that's abusing the body you claim to love. The problem is people think that if someone isn't pro-fat acceptance that they are against fat people as human beings. That's not true. Being fat doesn't make someone a bad person or less than others, but being fat is not something to celebrate any more than an addiction to drugs, alcohol, gambling, etc. Most Americans are completely out of touch with a healthy body weight. And I understand why: if most people you see are fat, you think the norm must be acceptable. But denial won't protect you from disease or death and obesity and type 2 diabetes are twin epidemics. Being fat causes type 2 diabetes. In addition to death, people with diabetes can go blind, need amputations, become prone to infection, and cannot have necessary surgery if their A1c (a measure of blood glucose) is too high. Being fat also raises your risk of cancer, heart disease, and stroke. And while we have medications that can keep people alive, this does not mean a person has a good quality of life. Being fit and thin is achievable if you want it, and sites like this make it easy to see exactly what you're putting into your body.6
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stephanieturner0122 wrote: »People should love their bodies. But loving your body does not mean loving the fat that makes you unhealthy or could lead to many negative health consequences down the road. That's not love, that's abusing the body you claim to love. The problem is people think that if someone isn't pro-fat acceptance that they are against fat people as human beings. That's not true. Being fat doesn't make someone a bad person or less than others, but being fat is not something to celebrate any more than an addiction to drugs, alcohol, gambling, etc. Most Americans are completely out of touch with a healthy body weight. And I understand why: if most people you see are fat, you think the norm must be acceptable. But denial won't protect you from disease or death and obesity and type 2 diabetes are twin epidemics. Being fat causes type 2 diabetes. In addition to death, people with diabetes can go blind, need amputations, become prone to infection, and cannot have necessary surgery if their A1c (a measure of blood glucose) is too high. Being fat also raises your risk of cancer, heart disease, and stroke. And while we have medications that can keep people alive, this does not mean a person has a good quality of life. Being fit and thin is achievable if you want it, and sites like this make it easy to see exactly what you're putting into your body.
Yes this3 -
https://www.naafaonline.com/dev2/about/
"NAAFA: the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance
Founded in 1969, the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance (NAAFA) is a non-profit, all volunteer, civil rights organization dedicated to protecting the rights and improving the quality of life for fat people. NAAFA works to eliminate discrimination based on body size and provide fat people with the tools for self-empowerment through advocacy, public education, and support.
Why Should I Support NAAFA?
Fat people are discriminated against in all aspects of daily life, from employment to education to access to public accommodations, and even access to adequate medical care. This discrimination occurs despite evidence that 95 to 98 percent of diets fail over five years and that 65 million Americans are labeled “obese.” Our thin-obsessed society firmly believes that fat people are at fault for their size and it is politically correct to stigmatize and ridicule them. Fat discrimination is one of the last publicly accepted discriminatory practices. Fat people have rights and they need to be upheld!
NAAFA’s message of size acceptance and self-acceptance is often overshadowed by a $49 billion-a-year diet industry that has a vested economic interest in perpetuating discrimination against fat people. Without active financial support from people like you, NAAFA would not exist and could not fulfill its crucial role defending your rights. While it is an uphill battle to achieve our goals, together we are making a difference.
Our Vision
A society in which people of every size are accepted with dignity and equality in all aspects of life.
Our Mission
To eliminate discrimination based on body size and provide fat people with the tools for self-empowerment though public education, advocacy, and support.
Our Promise
NAAFA will be a powerful force for positive social change. Using our collective will, talents and resources, we will improve the world — not just for fat people, but for everyone.
We Come in All Sizes…
Understand it.
Support it.
Accept it."4 -
MJ2victory wrote: »ahhhh thanks friend.
tbh whatever. Hate fat ppl all you want but why tell them? Sadism?
No one - least of all me - has said to tell fat people a thing. I've said HAES and their ilk are impossible to please if they don't get their over-inflated egos stroked for being "fat and beautiful". Their victim complex is nauseating and utterly unhelpful to their own cause.
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MJ2victory wrote: »At what point did this all get so misconstrued? Nobody ever said go get fat it's awesome, nobody ever said skinny sucks. It's about accepting who you are right now and understanding you deserve self love, no matter your size. Without self love and worth, how will you even care enough to lose weight or work out ? And there are a few people,who truly can't lose weight or have medical conditions that make weight loss extremely hard to impossible... they too have a right to self love and be accepted for who they are. Bottom line, don t judge unless your God.
You are exactly right in your post (+1 like from me!) However, the fat acceptance movement DOES give out a message of "Get fat, it's awesome" and "skinny sucks." You only need to look at the work of Tess Holliday, Virgie Tovar, Ragen Chastain, Kath Read, Kelly Jean Drinkwater and other such activists to see this.
do you have proof? I've never seen anything like that.
Google those names and the rest will follow....
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Fat acceptance is okay, however, me being 262 pounds of beef, I am not proud of being this way.
I will accept anyone's body type and I love the fact that big women are loving themselves! *EXCEPT*
the ones who shame skinny ladies/ claim that they're "real women" strictly because of their bigger size ... nah.
I am not apart of fat acceptance myself because I cannot wait to be over half of that weight and the more weight I lose the more I insight I have when people say "that is extremely unhealthy, they are not taking care of themselves,etc., but to each their own
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Heather_MXP wrote: »
...and any microbiology textbook would disagree. I welcome the citation to the contrary.
It's your use of the word "permanently" I hold issue with. No such thing in the realm of microbiology.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v529/n7585/full/nature16504.html
"Here we show that changes in the microbiota of mice consuming a low-MAC diet and harbouring a human microbiota are largely reversible within a single generation. However, over several generations, a low-MAC diet results in a progressive loss of diversity, which is not recoverable after the reintroduction of dietary MACs. To restore the microbiota to its original state requires the administration of missing taxa in combination with dietary MAC consumption. Our data illustrate that taxa driven to low abundance when dietary MACs are scarce are inefficiently transferred to the next generation, and are at increased risk of becoming extinct within an isolated population. As more diseases are linked to the Western microbiota and the microbiota is targeted therapeutically, microbiota reprogramming may need to involve strategies that incorporate dietary MACs as well as taxa not currently present in the Western gut."
Since I don't see my fellow MFP-ers running out for fecal transplants or other microbiota reprogramming, I think you're being terribly pedantic and I stand by my use of the word "permanent."
I'm off to enjoy my evening. So this concludes my participation in this debate. Cheers.
Well, it's a citation I'll grant you that. I'm not sure what point you are trying to support with this however. Using a general taxa study to support a specific cause and effect relationship is not appropriate and unfit for purpose.
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Dr__Girlfriend wrote: »My friend was walking to our gym today and some guy yelled at her to " take your fat *kitten* home and put some clothes on
Look at the abuse Olympic gold medalist Sarah Robles faces daily.
Being overweight is certainly not "glorified" as some here have claimed, at least not in Western society.
Fat acceptance is about not judging people. Nobody becomes healthy overnight. It's a lifelong journey. Obesity is something that is easy for people to judge because it's visible to society.
You want to become healthier out of love and care for yourself, not by feeling hopeless, defeated, or worthless - otherwise "what's the point". Many people just need a little support and to be told it's okay not to hate themselves.
FYI she won bronze not gold.0 -
CipherZero wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »ahhhh thanks friend.
tbh whatever. Hate fat ppl all you want but why tell them? Sadism?
No one - least of all me - has said to tell fat people a thing. I've said HAES and their ilk are impossible to please if they don't get their over-inflated egos stroked for being "fat and beautiful". Their victim complex is nauseating and utterly unhelpful to their own cause.
I think there are like a dozen ppl in the US who are that ridiculous. The idea of fat acceptance shouldn't be judged by that. And look at any single post of a happy, fat, confident woman and you will see comment after comment about how she's gross, unhealthy, promoting obesity, etc. I'm not talking specifically to anyone in this thread but to be, that's the opposite of fat acceptance. Just let ppl be fat and happy. Most fat people know the risks.3 -
MJ2victory wrote: »At what point did this all get so misconstrued? Nobody ever said go get fat it's awesome, nobody ever said skinny sucks. It's about accepting who you are right now and understanding you deserve self love, no matter your size. Without self love and worth, how will you even care enough to lose weight or work out ? And there are a few people,who truly can't lose weight or have medical conditions that make weight loss extremely hard to impossible... they too have a right to self love and be accepted for who they are. Bottom line, don t judge unless your God.
You are exactly right in your post (+1 like from me!) However, the fat acceptance movement DOES give out a message of "Get fat, it's awesome" and "skinny sucks." You only need to look at the work of Tess Holliday, Virgie Tovar, Ragen Chastain, Kath Read, Kelly Jean Drinkwater and other such activists to see this.
do you have proof? I've never seen anything like that.
Google those names and the rest will follow....
did you? Because, even though I've already read a fair amount of these things, I went out and googled just for the sake of this conversation and didn't find a single thing saying "skinny sucks" or "fat is awesome, get fat" as originally suggested. But I also maintain that a few wackos taking it too far can't be emblematic of an entire group of ppl who just wanna live their lives.4 -
MJ2victory wrote: »CipherZero wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »ahhhh thanks friend.
tbh whatever. Hate fat ppl all you want but why tell them? Sadism?
No one - least of all me - has said to tell fat people a thing. I've said HAES and their ilk are impossible to please if they don't get their over-inflated egos stroked for being "fat and beautiful". Their victim complex is nauseating and utterly unhelpful to their own cause.
I think there are like a dozen ppl in the US who are that ridiculous. The idea of fat acceptance shouldn't be judged by that. And look at any single post of a happy, fat, confident woman and you will see comment after comment about how she's gross, unhealthy, promoting obesity, etc. I'm not talking specifically to anyone in this thread but to be, that's the opposite of fat acceptance. Just let ppl be fat and happy. Most fat people know the risks.
People voice their opinions on people and things that they find distasteful all of the time. Why should the obese get a pass?8 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »CipherZero wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »ahhhh thanks friend.
tbh whatever. Hate fat ppl all you want but why tell them? Sadism?
No one - least of all me - has said to tell fat people a thing. I've said HAES and their ilk are impossible to please if they don't get their over-inflated egos stroked for being "fat and beautiful". Their victim complex is nauseating and utterly unhelpful to their own cause.
I think there are like a dozen ppl in the US who are that ridiculous. The idea of fat acceptance shouldn't be judged by that. And look at any single post of a happy, fat, confident woman and you will see comment after comment about how she's gross, unhealthy, promoting obesity, etc. I'm not talking specifically to anyone in this thread but to be, that's the opposite of fat acceptance. Just let ppl be fat and happy. Most fat people know the risks.
People voice their opinions on people and things that they find distasteful all of the time. Why should the obese get a pass?
People disproportionately voice their distaste for the obese.
I've seen so many pictures of thin women eating a mountain of food and people say it's awesome and she's "wife material" and things like that. No one says it's gross or glorifying unhealthy habits.
Furthermore, I would argue that people should do a lot less voicing their opinions of distaste although that's not what this thread is about. It's not hard to be decent. If you think something's ugly/stupid/whatever how hard is it to keep it to yourself and go live your own glorious life in the sun?6 -
MJ2victory wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »CipherZero wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »ahhhh thanks friend.
tbh whatever. Hate fat ppl all you want but why tell them? Sadism?
No one - least of all me - has said to tell fat people a thing. I've said HAES and their ilk are impossible to please if they don't get their over-inflated egos stroked for being "fat and beautiful". Their victim complex is nauseating and utterly unhelpful to their own cause.
I think there are like a dozen ppl in the US who are that ridiculous. The idea of fat acceptance shouldn't be judged by that. And look at any single post of a happy, fat, confident woman and you will see comment after comment about how she's gross, unhealthy, promoting obesity, etc. I'm not talking specifically to anyone in this thread but to be, that's the opposite of fat acceptance. Just let ppl be fat and happy. Most fat people know the risks.
People voice their opinions on people and things that they find distasteful all of the time. Why should the obese get a pass?
People disproportionately voice their distaste for the obese.
I've seen so many pictures of thin women eating a mountain of food and people say it's awesome and she's "wife material" and things like that. No one says it's gross or glorifying unhealthy habits.
Furthermore, I would argue that people should do a lot less voicing their opinions of distaste although that's not what this thread is about. It's not hard to be decent. If you think something's ugly/stupid/whatever how hard is it to keep it to yourself and go live your own glorious life in the sun?
Nope on the thin pets. She'd get labelled bulimic by many people. Actually post a picture of an overly thin person and there would be many many comments on how gross she is but it's acceptable because she's thin.2 -
Debatable. CICO will dictate if a person is overweight or not. While health issues from genetics can impair metabolic rate, a person eating less calories or equal calories than they burn shouldn't gain weight.thickspo91 wrote: »Some people are fat based on genetics. Also skinny people who don't take care of themselves don't get judged as harshly. I think people should be allowed to be fat if that's the life they choose. Fat is often a correlation with a disease, not the causation. Judging people for whether or not they are ill is wrong. Judging people for being fat is wrong.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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But it also doesn't necessarily mean they are attempting to either. Many different cultures will accept being fat and happy. In fact in some cultures it's expected. That doesn't mean just because it's expected that they are also trying to get on some health regimen.MJ2victory wrote: »willdarr79 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »I maintain that being hateful and disrespectful towards fat people does a lot towards keep us fat.
I have seen literally nobody in this thread saying that being hateful is ok. The question is whether or not people should be celebrating the fact that they are fat instead of trying to become more healthy. I haven't seen anyone say that fat shaming is ok, only that we shouldn't be glorifying being unhealthy.
but the thing is that accepting your body and deciding to love yourself doesn't necessarily mean you're not trying to become more healthy.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Research is still pretty scant. Also, animal studies hardly ever translate to human results.Heather_MXP wrote: »
...and any microbiology textbook would disagree. I welcome the citation to the contrary.
It's your use of the word "permanently" I hold issue with. No such thing in the realm of microbiology.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v529/n7585/full/nature16504.html
"Here we show that changes in the microbiota of mice consuming a low-MAC diet and harbouring a human microbiota are largely reversible within a single generation. However, over several generations, a low-MAC diet results in a progressive loss of diversity, which is not recoverable after the reintroduction of dietary MACs. To restore the microbiota to its original state requires the administration of missing taxa in combination with dietary MAC consumption. Our data illustrate that taxa driven to low abundance when dietary MACs are scarce are inefficiently transferred to the next generation, and are at increased risk of becoming extinct within an isolated population. As more diseases are linked to the Western microbiota and the microbiota is targeted therapeutically, microbiota reprogramming may need to involve strategies that incorporate dietary MACs as well as taxa not currently present in the Western gut."
Since I don't see my fellow MFP-ers running out for fecal transplants or other microbiota reprogramming, I think you're being terribly pedantic and I stand by my use of the word "permanent."
I'm off to enjoy my evening. So this concludes my participation in this debate. Cheers.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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singingflutelady wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »CipherZero wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »ahhhh thanks friend.
tbh whatever. Hate fat ppl all you want but why tell them? Sadism?
No one - least of all me - has said to tell fat people a thing. I've said HAES and their ilk are impossible to please if they don't get their over-inflated egos stroked for being "fat and beautiful". Their victim complex is nauseating and utterly unhelpful to their own cause.
I think there are like a dozen ppl in the US who are that ridiculous. The idea of fat acceptance shouldn't be judged by that. And look at any single post of a happy, fat, confident woman and you will see comment after comment about how she's gross, unhealthy, promoting obesity, etc. I'm not talking specifically to anyone in this thread but to be, that's the opposite of fat acceptance. Just let ppl be fat and happy. Most fat people know the risks.
People voice their opinions on people and things that they find distasteful all of the time. Why should the obese get a pass?
People disproportionately voice their distaste for the obese.
I've seen so many pictures of thin women eating a mountain of food and people say it's awesome and she's "wife material" and things like that. No one says it's gross or glorifying unhealthy habits.
Furthermore, I would argue that people should do a lot less voicing their opinions of distaste although that's not what this thread is about. It's not hard to be decent. If you think something's ugly/stupid/whatever how hard is it to keep it to yourself and go live your own glorious life in the sun?
Nope on the thin pets. She'd get labelled bulimic by many people. Actually post a picture of an overly thin person and there would be many many comments on how gross she is but it's acceptable because she's thin.
I have looked at a lot of pics like that and never seen a comment like that tbh.1 -
I never see ANY comments that anyone is fat or obese anymore on photos, I only see criticism that someone is too skinny and looks gross. Where do you ever see people calling people fat? (not saying it doesn't happen, just wondering because I never see it anymore)4
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