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Fat Acceptance Movement
Replies
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MJ2victory wrote: »At what point did this all get so misconstrued? Nobody ever said go get fat it's awesome, nobody ever said skinny sucks. It's about accepting who you are right now and understanding you deserve self love, no matter your size. Without self love and worth, how will you even care enough to lose weight or work out ? And there are a few people,who truly can't lose weight or have medical conditions that make weight loss extremely hard to impossible... they too have a right to self love and be accepted for who they are. Bottom line, don t judge unless your God.
You are exactly right in your post (+1 like from me!) However, the fat acceptance movement DOES give out a message of "Get fat, it's awesome" and "skinny sucks." You only need to look at the work of Tess Holliday, Virgie Tovar, Ragen Chastain, Kath Read, Kelly Jean Drinkwater and other such activists to see this.
do you have proof? I've never seen anything like that.
He directly named 5 people.4 -
lol ok but where's the proof. Where's the article or screen shot?0
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Tempted to call this a "today in things that never happened" but I do try to have an open mind and am willing to be proven wrong. I care about truth.
But, recall, even if someone has, under the guise of fat acceptance, said inaccurate or ignorant things... accepting fat people, at its core, is still a good idea.2 -
There's two versions of the FA movement. The first is all about learning to love yourself and the body you currently inhabit. It's all about reminding people that being cruel to people because they're fat makes you a nasty piece of work. That one is cool with me.
The second version I've seen more and more of is one where they want more rights than slimmer folk, declare they eat nothing and can't lose weight, think not being labelled Anorexic is fatphobia, can run marathons in the same time as professional athletes, are allowed to be nasty and rude because they're the victims of everything, think they shouldn't have to pay more for plus size clothes and blame everything including illnesses caused by their weight on fatphobia. That one I'm not cool with.8 -
MJ2victory wrote: »lol ok but where's the proof. Where's the article or screen shot?
The part where they say things like: "They [regular models] are perpetuating what’s wrong with America and with society, in general, that you have to look a certain way - like a Victoria's Secret Angel - to feel beautiful and be sexy." while at the same time claiming they being obese models does not perpetuate fatness comes to mind. As well as the fact that most regular women on the street are size-wise closer to those "unrealistic" Victoria's secret models than her.5 -
thickspo91 wrote: »Some people are fat based on genetics. Also skinny people who don't take care of themselves don't get judged as harshly. I think people should be allowed to be fat if that's the life they choose. Fat is often a correlation with a disease, not the causation. Judging people for whether or not they are ill is wrong. Judging people for being fat is wrong.
Which genes cause cancer again?
This is woo of the highest order. Obesity is a result of behavior. Otherwise you would see a similar population of obesity in Somalia (or wherever the latest food shortage/warlord takeover occurs) - or are you suggesting that Somalians are lacking obesity genes?1 -
stevencloser wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »lol ok but where's the proof. Where's the article or screen shot?
The part where they say things like: "They [regular models] are perpetuating what’s wrong with America and with society, in general, that you have to look a certain way - like a Victoria's Secret Angel - to feel beautiful and be sexy." while at the same time claiming they being obese models does not perpetuate fatness comes to mind. As well as the fact that most regular women on the street are size-wise closer to those "unrealistic" Victoria's secret models than her.
I don't see that as saying "fat is awesome, get fat" or "skinny sucks" though?0 -
thickspo91 wrote: »Some people are fat based on genetics. Also skinny people who don't take care of themselves don't get judged as harshly. I think people should be allowed to be fat if that's the life they choose. Fat is often a correlation with a disease, not the causation. Judging people for whether or not they are ill is wrong. Judging people for being fat is wrong.
Which genes cause cancer again?
This is woo of the highest order. Obesity is a result of behavior. Otherwise you would see a similar population of obesity in Somalia (or wherever the latest food shortage/warlord takeover occurs) - or are you suggesting that Somalians are lacking obesity genes?
Errr dude, pretty much everyone involved in oncology agrees that cancer is a genetics/epigenetics problem.2 -
Whether or not fattness is more nature or nurture isn't going to be settled in this forum and seems a waste of time. The end conclusion should be that it is an individual's prerogative to be as healthy or unhealthy as they want and it's not really up for public debate, eh? With fat people, smokers, etc, just live and let live. People know that unhealthy behaviors have consequences.2
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MJ2victory wrote: »Whether or not fattness is more nature or nurture isn't going to be settled in this forum and seems a waste of time. The end conclusion should be that it is an individual's prerogative to be as healthy or unhealthy as they want and it's not really up for public debate, eh? With fat people, smokers, etc, just live and let live. People know that unhealthy behaviors have consequences.
I will agree with that when their bad decisions are not paid for by the public sector. As a former smoker, I believe that I should forever be disqualified for public assistance with medical expenses.
Until "let them die if they can't afford care" becomes a reality, it's everyone's business, unfortunately. I'm actually a proponent of letting people suffer for their choices, but few seem to agree with me.6 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Whether or not fattness is more nature or nurture isn't going to be settled in this forum and seems a waste of time. The end conclusion should be that it is an individual's prerogative to be as healthy or unhealthy as they want and it's not really up for public debate, eh? With fat people, smokers, etc, just live and let live. People know that unhealthy behaviors have consequences.
I will agree with that when their bad decisions are not paid for by the public sector. As a former smoker, I believe that I should forever be disqualified for public assistance with medical expenses.
Until "let them die if they can't afford care" becomes a reality, it's everyone's business, unfortunately. I'm actually a proponent of letting people suffer for their choices, but few seem to agree with me.
But both smokers and fat ppl do suffer. Both with health problems and massive public stigma. Everyone makes mistakes. Everyone has unhealthy habits. Everyone dies.4 -
My 39 year-old son died April 3 of malignant melanoma.He had the BRAF gene-implicated in 66% of spontaneous(not inherited) melanoma cases, Not to mention all the heritable genes (tyr, mcr1,rb1,cdkn2a.....ad nauseum...) which increase the risk.
Which genes cause cancer again?
This is woo of the highest order.
tl:dr: wear your sunblock,cover your skin
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MJ2victory wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Whether or not fattness is more nature or nurture isn't going to be settled in this forum and seems a waste of time. The end conclusion should be that it is an individual's prerogative to be as healthy or unhealthy as they want and it's not really up for public debate, eh? With fat people, smokers, etc, just live and let live. People know that unhealthy behaviors have consequences.
I will agree with that when their bad decisions are not paid for by the public sector. As a former smoker, I believe that I should forever be disqualified for public assistance with medical expenses.
Until "let them die if they can't afford care" becomes a reality, it's everyone's business, unfortunately. I'm actually a proponent of letting people suffer for their choices, but few seem to agree with me.
But both smokers and fat ppl do suffer. Both with health problems and massive public stigma. Everyone makes mistakes. Everyone has unhealthy habits. Everyone dies.
And they themselves should bear the full weight of those habits and mistakes; no one else.4 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Whether or not fattness is more nature or nurture isn't going to be settled in this forum and seems a waste of time. The end conclusion should be that it is an individual's prerogative to be as healthy or unhealthy as they want and it's not really up for public debate, eh? With fat people, smokers, etc, just live and let live. People know that unhealthy behaviors have consequences.
I will agree with that when their bad decisions are not paid for by the public sector. As a former smoker, I believe that I should forever be disqualified for public assistance with medical expenses.
Until "let them die if they can't afford care" becomes a reality, it's everyone's business, unfortunately. I'm actually a proponent of letting people suffer for their choices, but few seem to agree with me.
But both smokers and fat ppl do suffer. Both with health problems and massive public stigma. Everyone makes mistakes. Everyone has unhealthy habits. Everyone dies.
And they themselves should bear the full weight of those habits and mistakes; no one else.
This seems like a debate about the idea of health insurance, not fat acceptance.3 -
MJ2victory wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Whether or not fattness is more nature or nurture isn't going to be settled in this forum and seems a waste of time. The end conclusion should be that it is an individual's prerogative to be as healthy or unhealthy as they want and it's not really up for public debate, eh? With fat people, smokers, etc, just live and let live. People know that unhealthy behaviors have consequences.
I will agree with that when their bad decisions are not paid for by the public sector. As a former smoker, I believe that I should forever be disqualified for public assistance with medical expenses.
Until "let them die if they can't afford care" becomes a reality, it's everyone's business, unfortunately. I'm actually a proponent of letting people suffer for their choices, but few seem to agree with me.
But both smokers and fat ppl do suffer. Both with health problems and massive public stigma. Everyone makes mistakes. Everyone has unhealthy habits. Everyone dies.
And they themselves should bear the full weight of those habits and mistakes; no one else.
This seems like a debate about the idea of health insurance, not fat acceptance.
Considering the known health effects of obesity, I'd say they're pretty closely related.0 -
I maintain that being hateful and disrespectful towards fat people does a lot towards keep us fat.4
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I've been over 100 pounds overweight for most of my adult life. There's nothing anyone can say to me that I don't already think about myself. It's hard for me to believe that there are people that are morbidly obese that are truly happy that way.
I don't need other people shaming me; I've pretty much got that covered. My mom used to tell me that people that struggle with weight carry their struggles where everyone can see it, but everyone struggles with something.
Maybe we need to worry less about any kind of acceptance movement and more about trying to use empathy - putting ourselves in the shoes of others and trying to visualize what life must be like from a different vantage point.9 -
texteach66 wrote: »I've been over 100 pounds overweight for most of my adult life. There's nothing anyone can say to me that I don't already think about myself. It's hard for me to believe that there are people that are morbidly obese that are truly happy that way.
I don't need other people shaming me; I've pretty much got that covered. My mom used to tell me that people that struggle with weight carry their struggles where everyone can see it, but everyone struggles with something.
Maybe we need to worry less about any kind of acceptance movement and more about trying to use empathy - putting ourselves in the shoes of others and trying to visualize what life must be like from a different vantage point.
From my personal vantage: I don't go out of my way to say anything negative directly to anyone about anything. Their choices and struggles are not mine that deal with. I was obese from the time I was about ten, until just a few years ago. I know how badly it sucks.
That said, as I pointed out before, some people in the FA movement do set themselves up to be in a position of martyrdom, so to speak. They do incredibly asinine things (that one girl's reality show is a sterling example), then want to cry foul when people mock them. When you seem to take pride in the fact that you can't walk for more than thirty seconds without becoming winded, you're begging for mockery. So to turn around and yell "fatphobic" when someone inevitably obliges is just absurd.5 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »thickspo91 wrote: »Some people are fat based on genetics. Also skinny people who don't take care of themselves don't get judged as harshly. I think people should be allowed to be fat if that's the life they choose. Fat is often a correlation with a disease, not the causation. Judging people for whether or not they are ill is wrong. Judging people for being fat is wrong.
Which genes cause cancer again?
This is woo of the highest order. Obesity is a result of behavior. Otherwise you would see a similar population of obesity in Somalia (or wherever the latest food shortage/warlord takeover occurs) - or are you suggesting that Somalians are lacking obesity genes?
Errr dude, pretty much everyone involved in oncology agrees that cancer is a genetics/epigenetics problem.
Yup - huge error on my part. Meant to state "Which genes cause obesity again?"
Agree - cancer is by and large genetic with a small population resulting from environmental causes. My n of 1 substantiates this.3 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »thickspo91 wrote: »Some people are fat based on genetics. Also skinny people who don't take care of themselves don't get judged as harshly. I think people should be allowed to be fat if that's the life they choose. Fat is often a correlation with a disease, not the causation. Judging people for whether or not they are ill is wrong. Judging people for being fat is wrong.
Which genes cause cancer again?
This is woo of the highest order. Obesity is a result of behavior. Otherwise you would see a similar population of obesity in Somalia (or wherever the latest food shortage/warlord takeover occurs) - or are you suggesting that Somalians are lacking obesity genes?
Errr dude, pretty much everyone involved in oncology agrees that cancer is a genetics/epigenetics problem.
Yup - huge error on my part. Meant to state "Which genes cause obesity again?"
Agree - cancer is by and large genetic with a small population resulting from environmental causes. My n of 1 substantiates this.
No problem. It seemed weird how you one-offed the cancer statement, then went to obesity, but it caused me to raise an eyebrow nonetheless.
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Gallowmere1984 wrote: »thickspo91 wrote: »Some people are fat based on genetics. Also skinny people who don't take care of themselves don't get judged as harshly. I think people should be allowed to be fat if that's the life they choose. Fat is often a correlation with a disease, not the causation. Judging people for whether or not they are ill is wrong. Judging people for being fat is wrong.
Which genes cause cancer again?
This is woo of the highest order. Obesity is a result of behavior. Otherwise you would see a similar population of obesity in Somalia (or wherever the latest food shortage/warlord takeover occurs) - or are you suggesting that Somalians are lacking obesity genes?
Errr dude, pretty much everyone involved in oncology agrees that cancer is a genetics/epigenetics problem.
Yup - huge error on my part. Meant to state "Which genes cause obesity again?"
Agree - cancer is by and large genetic with a small population resulting from environmental causes. My n of 1 substantiates this.
There have actually been some interesting studies on epigenetics and obesity. There's also research on microbiomes and obesity. It's not as simple as fat people are lazy and indulgent. It's just not.3 -
My 39 year-old son died April 3 of malignant melanoma.He had the BRAF gene-implicated in 66% of spontaneous(not inherited) melanoma cases, Not to mention all the heritable genes (tyr, mcr1,rb1,cdkn2a.....ad nauseum...) which increase the risk.
Which genes cause cancer again?
This is woo of the highest order.
tl:dr: wear your sunblock,cover your skin
My deepest condolences to you.
I meant to state "Which genes cause obesity again?"
As a cancer survivor and medical scientist I agree - cancer is largely caused by genetics and only a small part of the population is resulting from environmental factors.3 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »thickspo91 wrote: »Some people are fat based on genetics. Also skinny people who don't take care of themselves don't get judged as harshly. I think people should be allowed to be fat if that's the life they choose. Fat is often a correlation with a disease, not the causation. Judging people for whether or not they are ill is wrong. Judging people for being fat is wrong.
Which genes cause cancer again?
This is woo of the highest order. Obesity is a result of behavior. Otherwise you would see a similar population of obesity in Somalia (or wherever the latest food shortage/warlord takeover occurs) - or are you suggesting that Somalians are lacking obesity genes?
Errr dude, pretty much everyone involved in oncology agrees that cancer is a genetics/epigenetics problem.
Yup - huge error on my part. Meant to state "Which genes cause obesity again?"
Agree - cancer is by and large genetic with a small population resulting from environmental causes. My n of 1 substantiates this.
thanks for clarifying...momma will now come off her high horse and re-lurk....0 -
Heather_MXP wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »thickspo91 wrote: »Some people are fat based on genetics. Also skinny people who don't take care of themselves don't get judged as harshly. I think people should be allowed to be fat if that's the life they choose. Fat is often a correlation with a disease, not the causation. Judging people for whether or not they are ill is wrong. Judging people for being fat is wrong.
Which genes cause cancer again?
This is woo of the highest order. Obesity is a result of behavior. Otherwise you would see a similar population of obesity in Somalia (or wherever the latest food shortage/warlord takeover occurs) - or are you suggesting that Somalians are lacking obesity genes?
Errr dude, pretty much everyone involved in oncology agrees that cancer is a genetics/epigenetics problem.
Yup - huge error on my part. Meant to state "Which genes cause obesity again?"
Agree - cancer is by and large genetic with a small population resulting from environmental causes. My n of 1 substantiates this.
There have actually been some interesting studies on epigenetics and obesity. There's also research on microbiomes and obesity. It's not as simple as fat people are lazy and indulgent. It's just not.
The choices are not either genetics cause obesity or fat people are only fat because they are lazy and indulgent.
One issue with the microbiome argument is that what you eat changes your microbiome -- it's not like you just have what you have and are stuck with it (absent some fecal transplant or the like).1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »The choices are not either genetics cause obesity or fat people are only fat because they are lazy and indulgent.
One issue with the microbiome argument is that what you eat changes your microbiome -- it's not like you just have what you have and are stuck with it (absent some fecal transplant or the like).
Sure. I agree 100% that it's not either/or. But there is an attitude that it's all self-inflicted, as if everyone starts out with the same body situation, etc, (as is obvious in the "what gene" question)... which is obviously not the case.
I also agree that one's microbiome changes with one's diet. But it's still a factor in controlling one's cravings (and even their will-power). I've also read that once someone "ruins" their microbiome with a refined carb diet, it will never go back to microbiome it was / "could have been" on a high fiber, whole foods, etc, diet.1 -
MJ2victory wrote: »I maintain that being hateful and disrespectful towards fat people does a lot towards keep us fat.
I have seen literally nobody in this thread saying that being hateful is ok. The question is whether or not people should be celebrating the fact that they are fat instead of trying to become more healthy. I haven't seen anyone say that fat shaming is ok, only that we shouldn't be glorifying being unhealthy.3 -
Heather_MXP wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »The choices are not either genetics cause obesity or fat people are only fat because they are lazy and indulgent.
One issue with the microbiome argument is that what you eat changes your microbiome -- it's not like you just have what you have and are stuck with it (absent some fecal transplant or the like).
Sure. I agree 100% that it's not either/or. But there is an attitude that it's all self-inflicted, as if everyone starts out with the same body situation, etc, (as is obvious in the "what gene" question)... which is obviously not the case.
I also agree that one's microbiome changes with one's diet. But it's still a factor in controlling one's cravings (and even their will-power). I've also read that once someone "ruins" their microbiome with a refined carb diet, it will never go back to microbiome it was / "could have been" on a high fiber, whole foods, etc, diet.
Your microbiome is in constant fluctuation and will never be constant even if you ate the same regimented diet and followed the same routine day in/day out. These are competing bacterial strains and in constant struggle to compete over the resources available. While this is a variable, it is a very short term variable and has little impact on the long term.
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MJ2victory wrote: »Tempted to call this a "today in things that never happened" but I do try to have an open mind and am willing to be proven wrong. I care about truth.
But, recall, even if someone has, under the guise of fat acceptance, said inaccurate or ignorant things... accepting fat people, at its core, is still a good idea.
You can also go into the "Unpopular opinions" thread in here for a live example of someone outright denying obesity is a health risk.4 -
willdarr79 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »I maintain that being hateful and disrespectful towards fat people does a lot towards keep us fat.
I have seen literally nobody in this thread saying that being hateful is ok. The question is whether or not people should be celebrating the fact that they are fat instead of trying to become more healthy. I haven't seen anyone say that fat shaming is ok, only that we shouldn't be glorifying being unhealthy.
but the thing is that accepting your body and deciding to love yourself doesn't necessarily mean you're not trying to become more healthy.3 -
Heather_MXP wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »The choices are not either genetics cause obesity or fat people are only fat because they are lazy and indulgent.
One issue with the microbiome argument is that what you eat changes your microbiome -- it's not like you just have what you have and are stuck with it (absent some fecal transplant or the like).
Sure. I agree 100% that it's not either/or. But there is an attitude that it's all self-inflicted, as if everyone starts out with the same body situation, etc, (as is obvious in the "what gene" question)... which is obviously not the case.
I think there are differences, but in terms of managing one's own body weight it's not a particularly helpful thing to worry about (and you never know how hard or easy it was for someone else). For an individual, it makes sense to me to focus on the fact that is IS manageable, that you can lose weight, and to figure out how to improve the things that make it harder.
I don't think saying "you aren't genetically programmed to be fat" (which I believe) means that I am saying "all fat people are just lazy and self-indulgent." I think for many people (a majority) in a situation of food abundance and an environment that generally encourages overconsumption of food (which I think we have), it takes work of some sort (or the imposition of limitations on the environment in some way) to avoid overeating. This is something I deal with myself, and although I've lost the weight I don't think my being fat was the result of terrible personality traits or that I was more lazy and self indulgent when fat than I am now. I have some better habits now, and I am more aware of some of the things that lead me to overeat.
On the microbiome, what CSARdiver said.1
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