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Fat Acceptance Movement
Replies
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Hmm, some important things to add to this discussion:
Feminism means a lot of different things. Feminists don't all agree on everything.
It is true that some feminists consider fat a feminist issue, and others (probably even me) will consider body acceptance or being aware of how body image/comments about body are used in a demeaning way to be a feminist issue (including about men -- I've seen lots of nastiness about fat people (or individuals who are overweight) in political discussions, from people who should know better, and usually it's the more feminist types who object to that, even when it's about someone (or a group of people) they find politically repugnant. (Not saying only feminists care about this.) It's also true, these days, that snotty comments about fat are OFTEN associated with snotty comments about poorer people or the less educated (including when made by those left of center), because fat is a class issue to some extent in the US, anyway.
Considering fat a feminist issue is quite the opposite of pushing the idea that "real women have curves" or that "real women" should have any body type (which is actually what the "fat is feminists" links posted). Therefore, the mockery of "feminists" as being anti thin women or saying super fit women aren't attractive (as with the parody man thing) is misplaced, IMO. Of course, if one runs into a self-proclaimed feminist who promotes that kind of stuff (real women have curves, only dogs like bones), one should, if one wishes, call him or her on the hypocrisy. I would, but then I enjoy doing that kind of thing sometimes. I haven't actually seen it, though--again, well-curated FB page.
This. Pitting women against each other is kind of ANTI-feminist.2 -
Feminism, in its truest incarnation, is literally about equality. For everyone. Fat women. Fat men. Thin women. Thin men. Women generally have their exterior linked to their worth as a human. So it's about equalising that (eliminating) and bringing it to an equal playing field. Everyone treated the same way all else being equal. Feminism has brought about a lot of positive political and social change.
Are there those who bastardise it? For sure. But most feminists don't identify with them. Pretty much every woman and most men I know identify as feminist. None of them are third wavers, even down to the 20 year olds I know.13 -
Most on today's college campuses are third wave feminists.VintageFeline wrote: »Feminism, in its truest incarnation, is literally about equality. For everyone. Fat women. Fat men. Thin women. Thin men. Women generally have their exterior linked to their worth as a human. So it's about equalising that (eliminating) and bringing it to an equal playing field. Everyone treated the same way all else being equal. Feminism has brought about a lot of positive political and social change.
Are there those who bastardise it? For sure. But most feminists don't identify with them. Pretty much every woman and most men I know identify as feminist. None of them are third wavers, even down to the 20 year olds I know.
https://www.thecollegefix.com/post/29070/
http://college.usatoday.com/2017/03/16/young-feminism/
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DasItMan91 wrote: »It's like the fat women want guys to love them for who they are and they should love their "curves" but when a guy who's not a chubby chaser says they're not his type, they start bitchin.
Don't forget that the guy has to be tall and ripped, too. Fat guys are too gross to honour her curves! An acceptance movement that doesn't even extend to both sexes is no acceptance movement.
Exactly. They want the cream of the crop but disregard fat guys themselves.5 -
MJ2victory wrote: »DasItMan91 wrote: »It's like the fat women want guys to love them for who they are and they should love their "curves" but when a guy who's not a chubby chaser says they're not his type, they start bitchin.
Don't forget that the guy has to be tall and ripped, too. Fat guys are too gross to honour her curves! An acceptance movement that doesn't even extend to both sexes is no acceptance movement.
what are you even talking about??
What am I even talking about? Come now, you said in one of your previous posts that you are aware of Jes Baker - so such feigning of ignorance is disingenuous at best (like most of your posts in this thread)
I'll post some examples, From Ms. Baker herself.
Exhibit A - http://www.themilitantbaker.com/2013/03/things-no-one-will-tell-fat-girls-so-i.html
Please note the paragraph regarding "Fat chicks bang hot guys all the time" Fat women are hot while being fat, but men still have to be......hot.
Exhibit B - http://www.themilitantbaker.com/2013/05/to-mike-jeffries-co-abercrombie-fitch.html
If fat is so attractive, why did Ms. Baker pay to be photographed with a much slimmer guy, like he's some sort of object or status symbol to brag about? Why didn't she pose with an equally overweight man, given that A&F sell clothes to both sexes? I think we all know the entitled, hypocritical answer to that one.
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VintageFeline wrote: »Feminism, in its truest incarnation, is literally about equality. For everyone. Fat women. Fat men. Thin women. Thin men. Women generally have their exterior linked to their worth as a human. So it's about equalising that (eliminating) and bringing it to an equal playing field. Everyone treated the same way all else being equal. Feminism has brought about a lot of positive political and social change.
Are there those who bastardise it? For sure. But most feminists don't identify with them. Pretty much every woman and most men I know identify as feminist. None of them are third wavers, even down to the 20 year olds I know.peckchris3267 wrote: »Most on today's college campuses are third wave feminists.
https://www.thecollegefix.com/post/29070/
http://college.usatoday.com/2017/03/16/young-feminism/
A lot of it depends on whose definition of third-wave feminism you're using. EVERY age of feminism, even during the push for women's suffrage, has had its branch of "men suck!" proponents.
The USA Today article mentions diversity and inclusiveness as hallmarks of young feminists, just as @VintageFeline was saying. This means that when working against the problems caused by patriarchy, it's important to look at how they affect men as well as women - the stress from the expectation to be the primary breadwinner, the higher pressure from peers to engage in risky and/or self-harming behaviors, the assumption that men can't be / don't get sexually assaulted, the notion that certain colors are off-limits or you're "not a real man." All of these are feminist issues.
The College Fix markets itself as a right-wing digital magazine, so full disclosure, I'm taking that with a big ol' chunk of Himalayan pink salt.
Its lead is "The call for women’s equality has been achieved at American universities." It mentions enrollment and graduation rates. Interestingly, I don't see any mention of job placement rates. And even in this conservatively angled blog post, the author admits that the focus is on toxic masculinity, though it is framed as being against all men.
ANYWAY...
To address the original issue - if forced to choose between health and happiness, I'm picking the latter. I'd rather be at an overweight BMI and happy than at a healthy BMI and unhappy. Of course, for most of us, it's not an either/or proposition; they're interdependent. And it's a chicken-or-egg scenario. The discomfort and even pain of poor health makes it more difficult to be happy. The lethargy and negative self-talk in chronic unhappiness or depression makes it more difficult to maintain behaviors that keep you healthy.
But, for me, happiness takes a higher priority. And that's why I support fat acceptance.7 -
MJ2victory wrote: »DasItMan91 wrote: »It's like the fat women want guys to love them for who they are and they should love their "curves" but when a guy who's not a chubby chaser says they're not his type, they start bitchin.
Don't forget that the guy has to be tall and ripped, too. Fat guys are too gross to honour her curves! An acceptance movement that doesn't even extend to both sexes is no acceptance movement.
what are you even talking about??
What am I even talking about? Come now, you said in one of your previous posts that you are aware of Jes Baker - so such feigning of ignorance is disingenuous at best (like most of your posts in this thread)
I'll post some examples, From Ms. Baker herself.
Exhibit A - http://www.themilitantbaker.com/2013/03/things-no-one-will-tell-fat-girls-so-i.html
Please note the paragraph regarding "Fat chicks bang hot guys all the time" Fat women are hot while being fat, but men still have to be......hot.
Exhibit B - http://www.themilitantbaker.com/2013/05/to-mike-jeffries-co-abercrombie-fitch.html
If fat is so attractive, why did Ms. Baker pay to be photographed with a much slimmer guy, like he's some sort of object or status symbol to brag about? Why didn't she pose with an equally overweight man, given that A&F sell clothes to both sexes? I think we all know the entitled, hypocritical answer to that one.
That shot was a comment on beauty standards. Plus, Jess Baker's partner is fat and a hottie. It stands to reason that fat women who find themselves hot also find fat men hot. If not then, yeah, they're hypocritical af.0 -
I like a slim gently defined physique on men. If we're solely talking physical attraction. I'm attracted to others once I know them a bit regardless of appearance largely but I'm human. Am I a terrible hypocritical human being because I haven't been slim the whole time I've been attracted to that kind of man? Please.2
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You are not "Healthy at Any Size" but you are beautiful at any size (considering you're not a nasty person ok).
I often hear, I don't have time to work out or I can't eat healthy, I need to enjoy my life. Great! I don't judge you and I'm guilty of saying all the above when I was in my 20s but as you get older and you see friends your age getting surgeries or even dying, it changes you. I would rather start a healthy lifestyle now (w/splurge once in a while) and not be bed bound by the time I'm 60. I volunteered at a nursing home before and it's the most depressing thing to see old folks sit there, helpless, and as many of the residents expressed, wishing for your time to go. I want to be up, walking, and as independent as can be up until it's my time to go so that's my long term motivation. For short term, I just want to know that I can do it!5 -
VintageFeline wrote: »I like a slim gently defined physique on men. If we're solely talking physical attraction. I'm attracted to others once I know them a bit regardless of appearance largely but I'm human. Am I a terrible hypocritical human being because I haven't been slim the whole time I've been attracted to that kind of man? Please.
As long as you weren't annoyed at men for not being generally attracted to you when you were a chub, it's okay. Tit for tat.
This!4 -
So, along those lines, other developments which are not accomplishments to be lauded:
Stifling a lifelong habit of the gratuitous use of crass profanity
Abstaining from the illicit, recreational or addictively used street or pharmaceutical drugs
Becoming sober after years of habitual drunkenness
Refraining from slapping your sex partners around, after being repeatedly jailed for it
Committing to daily bathing, after years of limiting showering activity to once every two weeks
Exactly! Not doing these things should be expected out of each and every person, not praised. Not only that, but it is acceptable to shame drunks, smokers, drug addicts, abusers, etc.
Omg. Is this real? Three of those things are diseases. Why not shame cancer patients for not wearing enough sunblock at some point in their lives? Wow... I mean... wow. To think you have that right.4 -
SiegfriedXXL wrote: »I too have been called fat, whale, fattie, and had pig noises snorted at me from cars throughout my life. I was the fattest person in my class from middle school to present day and I suffered for it. Guess what? The people doing that would find something else to ridicule about me if I were thin. Those people are just bad people. The people wanting you to move out of their way would have wanted you to move even if you were thin. Then they would have said "Move your *kitten*, twiggy." Or "b****" or what ever else they needed to say to shock you into moving. Our fat is the most obvious target but people like that, rude people, not "ultra obesity prejudiced people", will find any target and take aim. There's nothing about being fat that brings out some additional capacity for evil in those who see a fat person that they otherwise would not exhibit when seeing someone else they want to victimize.
I'm not 100% sure here. FWIW I was horribly bullied throughout school and even a number of overweight kids took to bullying me, I guess they thought I was the only one they could get away with picking on, because I was different and nobody would stand up for me. I was called ugly all my life, and told I should do the world a favor and kill myself. I now understand this had a lot to do with being both mixed race and culturally different from my American classmates, but I was also a nerd and some of my "weirdness" was being from a different culture and some was just me being myself.... But I had friends who managed to be more "anonymous" who escaped the worst of the bullying, as long as they didn't stand out too much. Maybe if you had been thin you might have flown under the radar a bit.
BUT that said, while I still get some side-eye or a little bit of attitude from people now and then, but most adults grew out of that kind of stuff when it comes to those types of differences. Now more than anything people are interested in learning about people with different backgrounds. But when it comes to very heavy people there still is cruelty. I've seen people whisper loud enough to be overheard "I hope she paid for two seats on the plane because I don't want to be seated next to her" or the things shouted from cars, etc. Nobody now shouts to me from cars that my nose is too wide and flat or that my lips are disgustingly huge like I was told in school as a child.
Strangely enough, after all that I went through during school, it's easy for me now to slip into "overweight anonymous lady" mode--I don't really get noticed except that for some reason men are always trying to pick me up in the grocery store.... I've gotten "you look like a lot of fun!" Ugh, I'm chubby so that makes me fun? I've heard people here complain about how being overweight makes them feel invisible but after what I experienced growing up, it's a huge relief. But really obese people do get some *kitten*, they cannot be invisible and people can be very cruel. I know what it's like to be picked on, so I hate it when I see it.3 -
I personally hate it! Healthy at any size is just not true. Bullying is wrong, shaming people is wrong, making fun of people based on thier appearance is wrong. Telling someone that is morbidly obese that they are healthy is also wrong.
If you are (I was) obese and on a solid nutrition and exercise plan, you will lose fat. Yes, you will be healthier while you are obese and following a healthy lifestyle.
This movement is lying to people. And the worst part, the worst part of the entire movement is the hypocritical attitude. I got into weightlifting to help me lose weight. I fell in love with it. I love seeing new muscles pop up, I love being able to do things I couldn't do last year. I get so much negativity from it though. One of my friends decided to join on FB, I made a comment that I'm glad she's happy. Simple enough. My profile picture is of my flexed back...yep, got some muscles there. And I got so much hate speech directed at the picture saying how "these images are bad for people", "are causing eating disorders because of unattainable bodys", "not even a real woman", "it's disgusting", I must be on steroids, I'm a man.... It was just ugly. Yeah, it's not fat acceptance and accepting all body types. It really isn't. That's just my personal experience.7 -
@BabyBear76 Were the people who were being so obnoxious part of a fat acceptance group? Otherwise I'm not seeing the hypocrisy. Facebook has a lot of jerks, unfortunately.1
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clicketykeys wrote: »@BabyBear76 Were the people who were being so obnoxious part of a fat acceptance group? Otherwise I'm not seeing the hypocrisy. Facebook has a lot of jerks, unfortunately.clicketykeys wrote: »@BabyBear76 Were the people who were being so obnoxious part of a fat acceptance group? Otherwise I'm not seeing the hypocrisy. Facebook has a lot of jerks, unfortunately.
Yep, they were. This wasn't just random people, but a fat acceptance/body positive group. I find it upsetting that the same people who want other to quit body shaming them, will body shame others.2 -
I came across this story today.
This Bodybuilder Decided To Shame A Fellow Gym Member—And People Are Furious - Women's Health
https://apple.news/AFzjSeYG4QiOSEVJBt6rjcg
And it reminded me of so many threads where people talked about being scared or nervous about working out because of the way others might treat them. And it made me think of this thread as well.
I don't think anyone should be ridiculed, mocked or disrespected for the way they look (in this case, how much they weigh). This really made me angry. Here is a woman on the treadmill trying to get healthier and she is mocked in a very public way. And sad. The woman doing the mocking is very fit. She worked hard to get that way and I feel sorry for her that she developed a sense of superiority along with those muscles. And seemed to have lost her empathy and humanity along with her body fat.
I also think "fat acceptance" has gone too far and almost seems to be promoting obesity. I think everyone should love themselves and not think they are "less than" because they weigh more. I also think that love should come with a sense of duty and responsibility to take care of one's self by improving health and losing weight.5 -
I came across this story today.
This Bodybuilder Decided To Shame A Fellow Gym Member—And People Are Furious - Women's Health
https://apple.news/AFzjSeYG4QiOSEVJBt6rjcg
And it reminded me of so many threads where people talked about being scared or nervous about working out because of the way others might treat them. And it made me think of this thread as well.
I don't think anyone should be ridiculed, mocked or disrespected for the way they look (in this case, how much they weigh). This really made me angry. Here is a woman on the treadmill trying to get healthier and she is mocked in a very public way. And sad. The woman doing the mocking is very fit. She worked hard to get that way and I feel sorry for her that she developed a sense of superiority along with those muscles. And seemed to have lost her empathy and humanity along with her body fat.
I also think "fat acceptance" has gone too far and almost seems to be promoting obesity. I think everyone should love themselves and not think they are "less than" because they weigh more. I also think that love should come with a sense of duty and responsibility to take care of one's self by improving health and losing weight.
Couldn't open this link. Can you cut and paste the text of the article?
It's an old story.
"Remember Dani Mathers, the Playboy model who posted a picture of a woman changing in a gym locker room and body-shamed her? Apparently Instagram fitness star and bodybuilder Diana Andrews doesn’t, because she went ahead and did the same thing.
According to the Huffington Post UK, Diana shared a video on her Instagram Stories earlier this week of an unidentified woman talking on her phone on a treadmill with the caption “love handles.” She then followed it up with a separate slide on her Story that said “I bet she’s ordering [burger emojis] for delivery.”0 -
I came across this story today.
This Bodybuilder Decided To Shame A Fellow Gym Member—And People Are Furious - Women's Health
https://apple.news/AFzjSeYG4QiOSEVJBt6rjcg
And it reminded me of so many threads where people talked about being scared or nervous about working out because of the way others might treat them. And it made me think of this thread as well.
I don't think anyone should be ridiculed, mocked or disrespected for the way they look (in this case, how much they weigh). This really made me angry. Here is a woman on the treadmill trying to get healthier and she is mocked in a very public way. And sad. The woman doing the mocking is very fit. She worked hard to get that way and I feel sorry for her that she developed a sense of superiority along with those muscles. And seemed to have lost her empathy and humanity along with her body fat.
I also think "fat acceptance" has gone too far and almost seems to be promoting obesity. I think everyone should love themselves and not think they are "less than" because they weigh more. I also think that love should come with a sense of duty and responsibility to take care of one's self by improving health and losing weight.
Couldn't open this link. Can you cut and paste the text of the article?
It's from March of 2017, so a few months old. Came across it today for some reason. The direct link should work. The picture of the Insta really captures the mean-spiritedness of the mockery.
womenshealthmag.com/life/diana-andrews-body-shaming
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I came across this story today.
This Bodybuilder Decided To Shame A Fellow Gym Member—And People Are Furious - Women's Health
https://apple.news/AFzjSeYG4QiOSEVJBt6rjcg
And it reminded me of so many threads where people talked about being scared or nervous about working out because of the way others might treat them. And it made me think of this thread as well.
I don't think anyone should be ridiculed, mocked or disrespected for the way they look (in this case, how much they weigh). This really made me angry. Here is a woman on the treadmill trying to get healthier and she is mocked in a very public way. And sad. The woman doing the mocking is very fit. She worked hard to get that way and I feel sorry for her that she developed a sense of superiority along with those muscles. And seemed to have lost her empathy and humanity along with her body fat.
I also think "fat acceptance" has gone too far and almost seems to be promoting obesity. I think everyone should love themselves and not think they are "less than" because they weigh more. I also think that love should come with a sense of duty and responsibility to take care of one's self by improving health and losing weight.
Couldn't open this link. Can you cut and paste the text of the article?
It's from March of 2017, so a few months old. Came across it today for some reason. The direct link should work. The picture of the Insta really captures the mean-spiritedness of the mockery.
womenshealthmag.com/life/diana-andrews-body-shaming
"Apologies" like that really irk me. "It was not my intention to body shame, hurt..." etc. Horseshit. That was exactly the intention.5 -
Exactly! She knew what she was doing was wrong and did it anyway. #smh0
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