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Can diet affect your mental health?
Replies
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For me, eliminating sugar and eating unrefined, unprocessed whole foods has been nothing short of a miracle cure for the clinical depression I have battled since childhood. Way more effective than Zoloft.11
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nokanjaijo wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Mental health is a bit broad...maybe depression. Does a bad diet contribute to Schizophrenia? BPD? Othello Syndrome? No it doesn't
@Panda8ach do you have any links to support there being any medical validity to your quoted personal opinion about diet relationship to mental health concerns that you mentioned?
You really think schizophrenia and bp can be cured by diet?
Not sure why you are asking a question about "curing" any health condition because that is a loaded word that can never be proven. I know some medical professionals and patients view one's diet may have an impact on most any health condition.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3004718/
Dietary Intake of Patients with Schizophrenia
"From a physical health perspective, the observed pattern of above-average caloric intake from a diet rich in saturated fat and sugar seems worrisome. Health burdens of such a constellation are apparent. High fat intake per se, for example, has been linked to a variety of medical problems such as coronary artery disease, hypertension, and cancer.27 It may also predispose schizophrenia patients to premature death from complications of these disorders.28 They already have a decreased life expectancy,29 and the overtly high total fat intake together with a pattern of low fruit and vegetable consumption may only accelerate this trend.
From the mental health perspective, the patients' subjective assessment of quality of life is considered to be a critical outcome variable in the care of individuals with schizophrenia.30 Patients already suffer from low quality of life inherent to the chronic nature of their illness.31 Overweight only further impairs quality of life.17 Distress related to high body weight is a modifiable factor, and the quality of life of schizophrenic patients can be improved substantially by proper weight management, apart from obvious advantages for physical health.15"
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2652467/
Schizophrenia, gluten, and low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diets: a case report and review of the literature
"Abstract
We report the unexpected resolution of longstanding schizophrenic symptoms after starting a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet. After a review of the literature, possible reasons for this include the metabolic consequences from the elimination of gluten from the diet, and the modulation of the disease of schizophrenia at the cellular level.
Conclusion
While more research is needed to confirm the association between gluten intake and schizophrenia and whether dietary change can ameliorate schizophrenic symptoms, health care providers could consider screening patients with schizophrenia for celiac disease and/or augment the medical regimen with a gluten-free or low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet."
ibpf.org/blog/how-food-changed-bipolar-disorder-me
How Food Changed Bipolar Disorder For Me
"Controlling our Bipolar Disorder is a full time job, even during the good times. We have meds, psychotherapy, and other standard treatments. However, have you considered food as a form of treatment? I've discovered there are certain foods that help me keep the Bipolar roller coaster on the up side."
Do you read the links you post? That person still takes medication and a careful read of the foods list pretty much shows a whole foods diet full of whole grains, proteins, and vegetables so he's got stable blood sugar that doesn't affect his mood. That's what he attributes his dietary intervention effectiveness to.
He's paid attention to his reactions (like headaches and brain fog) to certain things and eliminated them.
These are things any sensible person with any chronic condition who takes a proactive stance on managing their health does to better their quality of life.
It doesn't make the case for food as medicine. It might make the case for the importance of self-care and engagement in the process of such for people suffering from mental illness.
Thankfully it does make a case that food like Rx meds can help or hurt a pre existing physical and/or medical conditions.
Not necessarily. A proper diet can affect mood in anyone. I see that in my children, for pity's sake. It's more important in people with chronic conditions to be on point with diet and weight management, though. I'd agree with that.
Again, this is completely true of prescription medication.
That's not the point in question, though.
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »nokanjaijo wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Mental health is a bit broad...maybe depression. Does a bad diet contribute to Schizophrenia? BPD? Othello Syndrome? No it doesn't
@Panda8ach do you have any links to support there being any medical validity to your quoted personal opinion about diet relationship to mental health concerns that you mentioned?
You really think schizophrenia and bp can be cured by diet?
Not sure why you are asking a question about "curing" any health condition because that is a loaded word that can never be proven. I know some medical professionals and patients view one's diet may have an impact on most any health condition.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3004718/
Dietary Intake of Patients with Schizophrenia
"From a physical health perspective, the observed pattern of above-average caloric intake from a diet rich in saturated fat and sugar seems worrisome. Health burdens of such a constellation are apparent. High fat intake per se, for example, has been linked to a variety of medical problems such as coronary artery disease, hypertension, and cancer.27 It may also predispose schizophrenia patients to premature death from complications of these disorders.28 They already have a decreased life expectancy,29 and the overtly high total fat intake together with a pattern of low fruit and vegetable consumption may only accelerate this trend.
From the mental health perspective, the patients' subjective assessment of quality of life is considered to be a critical outcome variable in the care of individuals with schizophrenia.30 Patients already suffer from low quality of life inherent to the chronic nature of their illness.31 Overweight only further impairs quality of life.17 Distress related to high body weight is a modifiable factor, and the quality of life of schizophrenic patients can be improved substantially by proper weight management, apart from obvious advantages for physical health.15"
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2652467/
Schizophrenia, gluten, and low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diets: a case report and review of the literature
"Abstract
We report the unexpected resolution of longstanding schizophrenic symptoms after starting a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet. After a review of the literature, possible reasons for this include the metabolic consequences from the elimination of gluten from the diet, and the modulation of the disease of schizophrenia at the cellular level.
Conclusion
While more research is needed to confirm the association between gluten intake and schizophrenia and whether dietary change can ameliorate schizophrenic symptoms, health care providers could consider screening patients with schizophrenia for celiac disease and/or augment the medical regimen with a gluten-free or low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet."
ibpf.org/blog/how-food-changed-bipolar-disorder-me
How Food Changed Bipolar Disorder For Me
"Controlling our Bipolar Disorder is a full time job, even during the good times. We have meds, psychotherapy, and other standard treatments. However, have you considered food as a form of treatment? I've discovered there are certain foods that help me keep the Bipolar roller coaster on the up side."
Do you read the links you post? That person still takes medication and a careful read of the foods list pretty much shows a whole foods diet full of whole grains, proteins, and vegetables so he's got stable blood sugar that doesn't affect his mood. That's what he attributes his dietary intervention effectiveness to.
He's paid attention to his reactions (like headaches and brain fog) to certain things and eliminated them.
These are things any sensible person with any chronic condition who takes a proactive stance on managing their health does to better their quality of life.
It doesn't make the case for food as medicine. It might make the case for the importance of self-care and engagement in the process of such for people suffering from mental illness.
Thankfully it does make a case that food like Rx meds can help or hurt a pre existing physical and/or medical conditions.
Not necessarily. A proper diet can affect mood in anyone. I see that in my children, for pity's sake. It's more important in people with chronic conditions to be on point with diet and weight management, though. I'd agree with that.
Again, this is completely true of prescription medication.
That's not the point in question, though.
I don't know what you think the point is, then.0 -
nokanjaijo wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »nokanjaijo wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Mental health is a bit broad...maybe depression. Does a bad diet contribute to Schizophrenia? BPD? Othello Syndrome? No it doesn't
@Panda8ach do you have any links to support there being any medical validity to your quoted personal opinion about diet relationship to mental health concerns that you mentioned?
You really think schizophrenia and bp can be cured by diet?
Not sure why you are asking a question about "curing" any health condition because that is a loaded word that can never be proven. I know some medical professionals and patients view one's diet may have an impact on most any health condition.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3004718/
Dietary Intake of Patients with Schizophrenia
"From a physical health perspective, the observed pattern of above-average caloric intake from a diet rich in saturated fat and sugar seems worrisome. Health burdens of such a constellation are apparent. High fat intake per se, for example, has been linked to a variety of medical problems such as coronary artery disease, hypertension, and cancer.27 It may also predispose schizophrenia patients to premature death from complications of these disorders.28 They already have a decreased life expectancy,29 and the overtly high total fat intake together with a pattern of low fruit and vegetable consumption may only accelerate this trend.
From the mental health perspective, the patients' subjective assessment of quality of life is considered to be a critical outcome variable in the care of individuals with schizophrenia.30 Patients already suffer from low quality of life inherent to the chronic nature of their illness.31 Overweight only further impairs quality of life.17 Distress related to high body weight is a modifiable factor, and the quality of life of schizophrenic patients can be improved substantially by proper weight management, apart from obvious advantages for physical health.15"
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2652467/
Schizophrenia, gluten, and low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diets: a case report and review of the literature
"Abstract
We report the unexpected resolution of longstanding schizophrenic symptoms after starting a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet. After a review of the literature, possible reasons for this include the metabolic consequences from the elimination of gluten from the diet, and the modulation of the disease of schizophrenia at the cellular level.
Conclusion
While more research is needed to confirm the association between gluten intake and schizophrenia and whether dietary change can ameliorate schizophrenic symptoms, health care providers could consider screening patients with schizophrenia for celiac disease and/or augment the medical regimen with a gluten-free or low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet."
ibpf.org/blog/how-food-changed-bipolar-disorder-me
How Food Changed Bipolar Disorder For Me
"Controlling our Bipolar Disorder is a full time job, even during the good times. We have meds, psychotherapy, and other standard treatments. However, have you considered food as a form of treatment? I've discovered there are certain foods that help me keep the Bipolar roller coaster on the up side."
Do you read the links you post? That person still takes medication and a careful read of the foods list pretty much shows a whole foods diet full of whole grains, proteins, and vegetables so he's got stable blood sugar that doesn't affect his mood. That's what he attributes his dietary intervention effectiveness to.
He's paid attention to his reactions (like headaches and brain fog) to certain things and eliminated them.
These are things any sensible person with any chronic condition who takes a proactive stance on managing their health does to better their quality of life.
It doesn't make the case for food as medicine. It might make the case for the importance of self-care and engagement in the process of such for people suffering from mental illness.
Thankfully it does make a case that food like Rx meds can help or hurt a pre existing physical and/or medical conditions.
Not necessarily. A proper diet can affect mood in anyone. I see that in my children, for pity's sake. It's more important in people with chronic conditions to be on point with diet and weight management, though. I'd agree with that.
Again, this is completely true of prescription medication.
That's not the point in question, though.
I don't know what you think the point is, then.
Not medication, certainly.
Mood isn't the sum total of mental health.
The efficacy of self-care only goes so far in having an impact on one's outlook, but that is true of people who don't struggle with mental health issues.
Thus, the thrust of the thread is really a non-starter since just about everyone feels better when they are eating a nutritious diet and getting proper sleep and exercise.
The heavy lifting in dealing with mental health issues is always going to be done with medication.1 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »nokanjaijo wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »nokanjaijo wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Mental health is a bit broad...maybe depression. Does a bad diet contribute to Schizophrenia? BPD? Othello Syndrome? No it doesn't
@Panda8ach do you have any links to support there being any medical validity to your quoted personal opinion about diet relationship to mental health concerns that you mentioned?
You really think schizophrenia and bp can be cured by diet?
Not sure why you are asking a question about "curing" any health condition because that is a loaded word that can never be proven. I know some medical professionals and patients view one's diet may have an impact on most any health condition.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3004718/
Dietary Intake of Patients with Schizophrenia
"From a physical health perspective, the observed pattern of above-average caloric intake from a diet rich in saturated fat and sugar seems worrisome. Health burdens of such a constellation are apparent. High fat intake per se, for example, has been linked to a variety of medical problems such as coronary artery disease, hypertension, and cancer.27 It may also predispose schizophrenia patients to premature death from complications of these disorders.28 They already have a decreased life expectancy,29 and the overtly high total fat intake together with a pattern of low fruit and vegetable consumption may only accelerate this trend.
From the mental health perspective, the patients' subjective assessment of quality of life is considered to be a critical outcome variable in the care of individuals with schizophrenia.30 Patients already suffer from low quality of life inherent to the chronic nature of their illness.31 Overweight only further impairs quality of life.17 Distress related to high body weight is a modifiable factor, and the quality of life of schizophrenic patients can be improved substantially by proper weight management, apart from obvious advantages for physical health.15"
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2652467/
Schizophrenia, gluten, and low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diets: a case report and review of the literature
"Abstract
We report the unexpected resolution of longstanding schizophrenic symptoms after starting a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet. After a review of the literature, possible reasons for this include the metabolic consequences from the elimination of gluten from the diet, and the modulation of the disease of schizophrenia at the cellular level.
Conclusion
While more research is needed to confirm the association between gluten intake and schizophrenia and whether dietary change can ameliorate schizophrenic symptoms, health care providers could consider screening patients with schizophrenia for celiac disease and/or augment the medical regimen with a gluten-free or low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet."
ibpf.org/blog/how-food-changed-bipolar-disorder-me
How Food Changed Bipolar Disorder For Me
"Controlling our Bipolar Disorder is a full time job, even during the good times. We have meds, psychotherapy, and other standard treatments. However, have you considered food as a form of treatment? I've discovered there are certain foods that help me keep the Bipolar roller coaster on the up side."
Do you read the links you post? That person still takes medication and a careful read of the foods list pretty much shows a whole foods diet full of whole grains, proteins, and vegetables so he's got stable blood sugar that doesn't affect his mood. That's what he attributes his dietary intervention effectiveness to.
He's paid attention to his reactions (like headaches and brain fog) to certain things and eliminated them.
These are things any sensible person with any chronic condition who takes a proactive stance on managing their health does to better their quality of life.
It doesn't make the case for food as medicine. It might make the case for the importance of self-care and engagement in the process of such for people suffering from mental illness.
Thankfully it does make a case that food like Rx meds can help or hurt a pre existing physical and/or medical conditions.
Not necessarily. A proper diet can affect mood in anyone. I see that in my children, for pity's sake. It's more important in people with chronic conditions to be on point with diet and weight management, though. I'd agree with that.
Again, this is completely true of prescription medication.
That's not the point in question, though.
I don't know what you think the point is, then.
Not medication, certainly.
Mood isn't the sum total of mental health.
The efficacy of self-care only goes so far in having an impact on one's outlook, but that is true of people who don't struggle with mental health issues.
Thus, the thrust of the thread is really a non-starter since just about everyone feels better when they are eating a nutritious diet and getting proper sleep and exercise.
The heavy lifting in dealing with mental health issues is always going to be done with medication.
I agree that medications trump diet. I would include therapy as another strong factor. Although many may find that mood improves with diet and exercise, I knew it was time to try something different when neither of those were helping me like they had in the past. That was when I entered into counseling, and stayed with it for year. Did it fix everything, no. But it did give me strategies to cope in a different manner, and it helped to desensitize many of my raw spots. These are things that certainly wouldn't be done with food and exercise alone.
Are food and mental health related? Yes, I strongly believe this. In what manner, I'm uncertain. I think it's cyclical, and which is the precipitating factor is unclear. When I'm stressed I'm more inclined to eat less than optimal choices. At least now I don't beat myself up for it, or sit her feeling guilt and shame; perpetuating the cycle.1 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »nokanjaijo wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »nokanjaijo wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Mental health is a bit broad...maybe depression. Does a bad diet contribute to Schizophrenia? BPD? Othello Syndrome? No it doesn't
@Panda8ach do you have any links to support there being any medical validity to your quoted personal opinion about diet relationship to mental health concerns that you mentioned?
You really think schizophrenia and bp can be cured by diet?
Not sure why you are asking a question about "curing" any health condition because that is a loaded word that can never be proven. I know some medical professionals and patients view one's diet may have an impact on most any health condition.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3004718/
Dietary Intake of Patients with Schizophrenia
"From a physical health perspective, the observed pattern of above-average caloric intake from a diet rich in saturated fat and sugar seems worrisome. Health burdens of such a constellation are apparent. High fat intake per se, for example, has been linked to a variety of medical problems such as coronary artery disease, hypertension, and cancer.27 It may also predispose schizophrenia patients to premature death from complications of these disorders.28 They already have a decreased life expectancy,29 and the overtly high total fat intake together with a pattern of low fruit and vegetable consumption may only accelerate this trend.
From the mental health perspective, the patients' subjective assessment of quality of life is considered to be a critical outcome variable in the care of individuals with schizophrenia.30 Patients already suffer from low quality of life inherent to the chronic nature of their illness.31 Overweight only further impairs quality of life.17 Distress related to high body weight is a modifiable factor, and the quality of life of schizophrenic patients can be improved substantially by proper weight management, apart from obvious advantages for physical health.15"
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2652467/
Schizophrenia, gluten, and low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diets: a case report and review of the literature
"Abstract
We report the unexpected resolution of longstanding schizophrenic symptoms after starting a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet. After a review of the literature, possible reasons for this include the metabolic consequences from the elimination of gluten from the diet, and the modulation of the disease of schizophrenia at the cellular level.
Conclusion
While more research is needed to confirm the association between gluten intake and schizophrenia and whether dietary change can ameliorate schizophrenic symptoms, health care providers could consider screening patients with schizophrenia for celiac disease and/or augment the medical regimen with a gluten-free or low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet."
ibpf.org/blog/how-food-changed-bipolar-disorder-me
How Food Changed Bipolar Disorder For Me
"Controlling our Bipolar Disorder is a full time job, even during the good times. We have meds, psychotherapy, and other standard treatments. However, have you considered food as a form of treatment? I've discovered there are certain foods that help me keep the Bipolar roller coaster on the up side."
Do you read the links you post? That person still takes medication and a careful read of the foods list pretty much shows a whole foods diet full of whole grains, proteins, and vegetables so he's got stable blood sugar that doesn't affect his mood. That's what he attributes his dietary intervention effectiveness to.
He's paid attention to his reactions (like headaches and brain fog) to certain things and eliminated them.
These are things any sensible person with any chronic condition who takes a proactive stance on managing their health does to better their quality of life.
It doesn't make the case for food as medicine. It might make the case for the importance of self-care and engagement in the process of such for people suffering from mental illness.
Thankfully it does make a case that food like Rx meds can help or hurt a pre existing physical and/or medical conditions.
Not necessarily. A proper diet can affect mood in anyone. I see that in my children, for pity's sake. It's more important in people with chronic conditions to be on point with diet and weight management, though. I'd agree with that.
Again, this is completely true of prescription medication.
That's not the point in question, though.
I don't know what you think the point is, then.
Not medication, certainly.
Mood isn't the sum total of mental health.
The efficacy of self-care only goes so far in having an impact on one's outlook, but that is true of people who don't struggle with mental health issues.
Thus, the thrust of the thread is really a non-starter since just about everyone feels better when they are eating a nutritious diet and getting proper sleep and exercise.
The heavy lifting in dealing with mental health issues is always going to be done with medication.
I agree that medications trump diet. I would include therapy as another strong factor. Although many may find that mood improves with diet and exercise, I knew it was time to try something different when neither of those were helping me like they had in the past. That was when I entered into counseling, and stayed with it for year. Did it fix everything, no. But it did give me strategies to cope in a different manner, and it helped to desensitize many of my raw spots. These are things that certainly wouldn't be done with food and exercise alone.
Are food and mental health related? Yes, I strongly believe this. In what manner, I'm uncertain. I think it's cyclical, and which is the precipitating factor is unclear. When I'm stressed I'm more inclined to eat less than optimal choices. At least now I don't beat myself up for it, or sit her feeling guilt and shame; perpetuating the cycle.
I think @earlnabby raised the issue earlier, and you're echoing it here. There's a chicken and egg scenario here that maybe is tangential to what some of the other posters are driving at, though.
Some of us (I'll include myself in this since I've suffered with depression in the past) have seen our mental health issue affect our ability to make optimal choices. We just don't care enough.
The other posters seem to be driving at the point that the choices affect the mental health.
I'm not sure that's entirely accurate or can be entirely entirely sorted. Again. Chicken/egg.1 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
Not medication, certainly.
I don't know why you say this in a post where you make a huge point about medication.Mood isn't the sum total of mental health.
I'm not claiming that it is. It is a HUUUUUUUUGE factor. We know that.The efficacy of self-care only goes so far in having an impact on one's outlook, but that is true of people who don't struggle with mental health issues.
Depression really just boils down to outlook. The same is true of anxiety. It's a severe dysfunction in outlook but it is outlook. In fact, a great many therapists only use medication to ease the symptoms of depression during the actual treatment which is generally something more along the lines of CBT or DBT, which are meticulous attempts to change your own ways of looking at things. Then, once you get that worked out, they can take you off the meds.
Also, it's not as limited as you say for everybody. There are people who completely turn around debilitating mental illnesses without medication. You're talking to one. It wasn't until I stopped all meds and undertook a self-reliant approach that I saw any improvement.
I feel better now than i have ever felt in my life and my depression was so bad one psychiatrist put my on amphetamines to try to treat it. So, I feel better now than when I was on speed.Thus, the thrust of the thread is really a non-starter since just about everyone feels better when they are eating a nutritious diet and getting proper sleep and exercise.
You seem to think that a poor diet can adversely affect your mental heath and a good diet can positively affect your mental health. I still don't understand why you think that makes this thread a non-starter.The heavy lifting in dealing with mental health issues is always going to be done with medication.
This is not well agreed on. I agree that it is done with medication now. But my agreement ends there.
M mental health professionals are quite worried about the over-reliance on prescription medications in treating mental health disorders. In fact, this is a concern in most aspects of medicine. The point I've seen made as to why diet isn't addressed is because of how difficult it is to get your patient to change their diet. So you actually have a lot of physicians who believe that diet is the best treatment but they don't bring it up and they prescribe drugs instead. Or they mention it and also give out a prescription.
So, while I can see that medication is doing the heavy lifting, I completely disagree that it should be that way or will always be that way.
To be clear, I'm not saying that medication isn't useful or even necessary in some cases. I'm just saying that I think diet is a huge piece of the puzzle in a lot of cases and it would behoove us to talk about that. A lot of the science behind this is emerging but that doesn't mean it's not true. That just means it hasn't been well studied yet.
Here are a couple of videos on the topic if you are at all interested.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=na1gn5bHRCY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PLD5RLLvfQ 8 -
nokanjaijo wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I don't know what you think the point is, then.
Not medication, certainly.
I don't know why you say this in a post where you make a huge point about medication.Mood isn't the sum total of mental health.
I'm not claiming that it is. It is a HUUUUUUUUGE factor. We know that.The efficacy of self-care only goes so far in having an impact on one's outlook, but that is true of people who don't struggle with mental health issues.
Depression really just boils down to outlook. The same is true of anxiety. It's a severe dysfunction in outlook but it is outlook. In fact, a great many therapists only use medication to ease the symptoms of depression during the actual treatment which is generally something more along the lines of CBT or DBT, which are meticulous attempts to change your own ways of looking at things. Then, once you get that worked out, they can take you off the meds.
Also, it's not as limited as you say for everybody. There are people who completely turn around debilitating mental illnesses without medication. You're talking to one. It wasn't until I stopped all meds and undertook a self-reliant approach that I saw any improvement.
I feel better now than i have ever felt in my life and my depression was so bad one psychiatrist put my on amphetamines to try to treat it. So, I feel better now than when I was on speed.Thus, the thrust of the thread is really a non-starter since just about everyone feels better when they are eating a nutritious diet and getting proper sleep and exercise.
You seem to think that a poor diet can adversely affect your mental heath and a good diet can positively affect your mental health. I still don't understand why you think that makes this thread a non-starter.The heavy lifting in dealing with mental health issues is always going to be done with medication.
This is not well agreed on. I agree that it is done with medication now. But my agreement ends there.
M mental health professionals are quite worried about the over-reliance on prescription medications in treating mental health disorders. In fact, this is a concern in most aspects of medicine. The point I've seen made as to why diet isn't addressed is because of how difficult it is to get your patient to change their diet. So you actually have a lot of physicians who believe that diet is the best treatment but they don't bring it up and they prescribe drugs instead. Or they mention it and also give out a prescription.
So, while I can see that medication is doing the heavy lifting, I completely disagree that it should be that way or will always be that way.
To be clear, I'm not saying that medication isn't useful or even necessary in some cases. I'm just saying that I think diet is a huge piece of the puzzle in a lot of cases and it would behoove us to talk about that. A lot of the science behind this is emerging but that doesn't mean it's not true. That just means it hasn't been well studied yet.
Here are a couple of videos on the topic if you are at all interested.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=na1gn5bHRCYhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PLD5RLLvfQ[/quote]
Depression isn't the sum and substance of all of mental illness (firstly), and it's also a spectrum.
I would hope that you'd grant that since it's also a spectrum, different people have different experiences with it and its affect on their lives, thus impacting the efficacy of any type of approach to its treatment.2 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »nokanjaijo wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »nokanjaijo wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Mental health is a bit broad...maybe depression. Does a bad diet contribute to Schizophrenia? BPD? Othello Syndrome? No it doesn't
@Panda8ach do you have any links to support there being any medical validity to your quoted personal opinion about diet relationship to mental health concerns that you mentioned?
You really think schizophrenia and bp can be cured by diet?
Not sure why you are asking a question about "curing" any health condition because that is a loaded word that can never be proven. I know some medical professionals and patients view one's diet may have an impact on most any health condition.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3004718/
Dietary Intake of Patients with Schizophrenia
"From a physical health perspective, the observed pattern of above-average caloric intake from a diet rich in saturated fat and sugar seems worrisome. Health burdens of such a constellation are apparent. High fat intake per se, for example, has been linked to a variety of medical problems such as coronary artery disease, hypertension, and cancer.27 It may also predispose schizophrenia patients to premature death from complications of these disorders.28 They already have a decreased life expectancy,29 and the overtly high total fat intake together with a pattern of low fruit and vegetable consumption may only accelerate this trend.
From the mental health perspective, the patients' subjective assessment of quality of life is considered to be a critical outcome variable in the care of individuals with schizophrenia.30 Patients already suffer from low quality of life inherent to the chronic nature of their illness.31 Overweight only further impairs quality of life.17 Distress related to high body weight is a modifiable factor, and the quality of life of schizophrenic patients can be improved substantially by proper weight management, apart from obvious advantages for physical health.15"
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2652467/
Schizophrenia, gluten, and low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diets: a case report and review of the literature
"Abstract
We report the unexpected resolution of longstanding schizophrenic symptoms after starting a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet. After a review of the literature, possible reasons for this include the metabolic consequences from the elimination of gluten from the diet, and the modulation of the disease of schizophrenia at the cellular level.
Conclusion
While more research is needed to confirm the association between gluten intake and schizophrenia and whether dietary change can ameliorate schizophrenic symptoms, health care providers could consider screening patients with schizophrenia for celiac disease and/or augment the medical regimen with a gluten-free or low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet."
ibpf.org/blog/how-food-changed-bipolar-disorder-me
How Food Changed Bipolar Disorder For Me
"Controlling our Bipolar Disorder is a full time job, even during the good times. We have meds, psychotherapy, and other standard treatments. However, have you considered food as a form of treatment? I've discovered there are certain foods that help me keep the Bipolar roller coaster on the up side."
Do you read the links you post? That person still takes medication and a careful read of the foods list pretty much shows a whole foods diet full of whole grains, proteins, and vegetables so he's got stable blood sugar that doesn't affect his mood. That's what he attributes his dietary intervention effectiveness to.
He's paid attention to his reactions (like headaches and brain fog) to certain things and eliminated them.
These are things any sensible person with any chronic condition who takes a proactive stance on managing their health does to better their quality of life.
It doesn't make the case for food as medicine. It might make the case for the importance of self-care and engagement in the process of such for people suffering from mental illness.
Thankfully it does make a case that food like Rx meds can help or hurt a pre existing physical and/or medical conditions.
Not necessarily. A proper diet can affect mood in anyone. I see that in my children, for pity's sake. It's more important in people with chronic conditions to be on point with diet and weight management, though. I'd agree with that.
Again, this is completely true of prescription medication.
That's not the point in question, though.
I don't know what you think the point is, then.
Not medication, certainly.
Mood isn't the sum total of mental health.
The efficacy of self-care only goes so far in having an impact on one's outlook, but that is true of people who don't struggle with mental health issues.
Thus, the thrust of the thread is really a non-starter since just about everyone feels better when they are eating a nutritious diet and getting proper sleep and exercise.
The heavy lifting in dealing with mental health issues is always going to be done with medication.
I agree that medications trump diet. I would include therapy as another strong factor. Although many may find that mood improves with diet and exercise, I knew it was time to try something different when neither of those were helping me like they had in the past. That was when I entered into counseling, and stayed with it for year. Did it fix everything, no. But it did give me strategies to cope in a different manner, and it helped to desensitize many of my raw spots. These are things that certainly wouldn't be done with food and exercise alone.
Are food and mental health related? Yes, I strongly believe this. In what manner, I'm uncertain. I think it's cyclical, and which is the precipitating factor is unclear. When I'm stressed I'm more inclined to eat less than optimal choices. At least now I don't beat myself up for it, or sit her feeling guilt and shame; perpetuating the cycle.
I think @earlnabby raised the issue earlier, and you're echoing it here. There's a chicken and egg scenario here that maybe is tangential to what some of the other posters are driving at, though.
Some of us (I'll include myself in this since I've suffered with depression in the past) have seen our mental health issue affect our ability to make optimal choices. We just don't care enough.
The other posters seem to be driving at the point that the choices affect the mental health.
I'm not sure that's entirely accurate or can be entirely entirely sorted. Again. Chicken/egg.
Agree. I also think that once you're in the cycle, which came first is irrelevant, the important question there is how to break it. Once you are no longer in the cycle, which came first is certainly more important because hopefully, you could monitor to reduce the risk of getting pulled back into it. However, I can see how the precipitating factors may be different at different times in one's life.
When I look back on the times when I've gone through this cycle, it's usually because I had set unrealistic expectations on myself to begin with. Setting myself up to fail by being over restrictive on types of foods I was allowed, etc. Followed by the consumption of a single chocolate bar, leading to beating myself up for being a failure. Taking away the labels of good and bad foods brought me out of that ongoing cycle. As I'm typing this, I am suspecting that this expectation of perfection was really the catalyst in those situations.
Outside of the diet for weight loss context, I think it's harder to say. I can really only speak from my own experience.1 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
Depression isn't the sum and substance of all of mental illness (firstly),
This is a strawman. I don't think it is. I think it is a potentially debilitating mental illness with a known link to diet that is almost entirely a problem with outlook. That was what I said about it. I did not even suggest it was all mental illness.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »and it's also a spectrum.
I would hope that you'd grant that since it's also a spectrum, different people have different experiences with it and its affect on their lives, thus impacting the efficacy of any type of approach to its treatment.
I completely agree. In fact, this is the point I am making to you.
I am telling you that there exist people with debilitating, clinical depression who are able to effectively treat it with lifestyle and diet. There is data to indicate a strong link may exist between mental health and diet.
I see no reason to refer to discussion about this link as a non-starter. That's what I think you're wrong about.3 -
nokanjaijo wrote: »You seem to think that a poor diet can adversely affect your mental heath and a good diet can positively affect your mental health. I still don't understand why you think that makes this thread a non-starter.
Can't speak for GottaBurnEm, but here are a few things that are making me uncomfortable about some of the stuff on this thread.
OP asked: "this person claimed that these people were mentally unwell BECAUSE they had a bad diet. This didn't make sense to me. I always thought that the mental illness came first and because of the illness, the person then has zero energy or motivation to shop, cook, etc and so often just eats crisps, microwave meals, takeaways/fast food etc which then leads to comorbid factors like obesity. What do you think?"
I agree with OP in large part. For me, anyway, it's extremely difficult to say that I've eaten poorly or not exercised and caused my depression. What seems to happen is that being depressed leads to me eating poorly and stopping exercise. I DO find that exercise in particular is helpful, so to the extent I can catch the cycle early and keep up with exercise I find that is helpful, although maybe not enough.
What OP seemed to be reacting to -- and where I agree with her -- is this idea that if you have a mental illness you caused it by eating poorly or that you could just fix it by eating right.
That idea seems to me to be echoed in some of the more recent posts:
First, the idea that bipolar or schizophrenia is CAUSED by diet choices or can be CURED by just eating a particular way.
Second, the idea that keto is the right way to eat if one has tendencies toward mental illness. I think it maybe can be helpful for some and is worth trying (although again causation is tough to sort out, which is why I mentioned what I think is a placebo effect of eating well for me, and of course just being healthier or losing weight or feeling more in control can be very helpful, and often it is combined with exercise). But there is also a documented effect in some of worsening or even leading to a depression or anxiety, as other posters mentioned, so pushing keto as a way to cure depression or other mental health issues (and suggesting it's really just the result of too many carbs and not something that might be out of your control or not caused by lifestyle choices and if you only ate right you'd be fine) strikes me as both inaccurate and cruel, as well as potentially dangerous.
I am sure not everyone involved means to be saying anything like that, of course.7 -
nokanjaijo wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
Depression isn't the sum and substance of all of mental illness (firstly),
This is a strawman. I don't think it is. I think it is a potentially debilitating mental illness with a known link to diet that is almost entirely a problem with outlook. That was what I said about it. I did not even suggest it was all mental illness.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »and it's also a spectrum.
I would hope that you'd grant that since it's also a spectrum, different people have different experiences with it and its affect on their lives, thus impacting the efficacy of any type of approach to its treatment.
I completely agree. In fact, this is the point I am making to you.
I am telling you that there exist people with debilitating, clinical depression who are able to effectively treat it with lifestyle and diet. There is data to indicate a strong link may exist between mental health and diet.
I see no reason to refer to discussion about this link as a non-starter. That's what I think you're wrong about.
I'd like to see case studies of this. Because I can believe the bit about situational depression being cured by lifestyle interventions, but debilitating clinical depression? Nope. They'd have to be hospitalized and fed the diet to achieve the intervention in the first case. Self-care falls by the wayside when you're clinically depressed.
You can't tell me that someone who can't be bothered to bathe or brush their teeth or even get out of bed is going to be able to affect a cure by shopping for and preparing a proper diet.6 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »nokanjaijo wrote: »You seem to think that a poor diet can adversely affect your mental heath and a good diet can positively affect your mental health. I still don't understand why you think that makes this thread a non-starter.
Can't speak for GottaBurnEm, but here are a few things that are making me uncomfortable about some of the stuff on this thread.
OP asked: "this person claimed that these people were mentally unwell BECAUSE they had a bad diet. This didn't make sense to me. I always thought that the mental illness came first and because of the illness, the person then has zero energy or motivation to shop, cook, etc and so often just eats crisps, microwave meals, takeaways/fast food etc which then leads to comorbid factors like obesity. What do you think?"
I agree with OP in large part. For me, anyway, it's extremely difficult to say that I've eaten poorly or not exercised and caused my depression. What seems to happen is that being depressed leads to me eating poorly and stopping exercise. I DO find that exercise in particular is helpful, so to the extent I can catch the cycle early and keep up with exercise I find that is helpful, although maybe not enough.
What OP seemed to be reacting to -- and where I agree with her -- is this idea that if you have a mental illness you caused it by eating poorly or that you could just fix it by eating right.
That idea seems to me to be echoed in some of the more recent posts:
First, the idea that bipolar or schizophrenia is CAUSED by diet choices or can be CURED by just eating a particular way.
Second, the idea that keto is the right way to eat if one has tendencies toward mental illness. I think it maybe can be helpful for some and is worth trying (although again causation is tough to sort out, which is why I mentioned what I think is a placebo effect of eating well for me, and of course just being healthier or losing weight or feeling more in control can be very helpful, and often it is combined with exercise). But there is also a documented effect in some of worsening or even leading to a depression or anxiety, as other posters mentioned, so pushing keto as a way to cure depression or other mental health issues (and suggesting it's really just the result of too many carbs and not something that might be out of your control or not caused by lifestyle choices and if you only ate right you'd be fine) strikes me as both inaccurate and cruel, as well as potentially dangerous.
I am sure not everyone involved means to be saying anything like that, of course.
You can speak for me any time.3 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »OP asked: "this person claimed that these people were mentally unwell BECAUSE they had a bad diet. This didn't make sense to me. I always thought that the mental illness came first and because of the illness, the person then has zero energy or motivation to shop, cook, etc and so often just eats crisps, microwave meals, takeaways/fast food etc which then leads to comorbid factors like obesity. What do you think?"
I don't think there is a single cause. I think it's a lot of different things and would only ever really recommend a multi-faceted approach to dealing with mental health problems. It's genetic, it's epigenetic, it's diet, it's environment, it's your neurology. I think that, if you have great genes and a happy childhood and a nurturing environment and your mother had a stress-free pregnancy, you can probably subsist entirely on McDonald's and live a life of unfettered joy.
I don't know exactly what causes any mental health problem nor do any mental health professionals.
The human psyche is chaos theory. Let's not kid ourselves. Even psych meds are essentially throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks.lemurcat12 wrote: »I agree with OP in large part. For me, anyway, it's extremely difficult to say that I've eaten poorly or not exercised and caused my depression. What seems to happen is that being depressed leads to me eating poorly and stopping exercise. I DO find that exercise in particular is helpful, so to the extent I can catch the cycle early and keep up with exercise I find that is helpful, although maybe not enough.
I can agree with this.lemurcat12 wrote: »What OP seemed to be reacting to -- and where I agree with her -- is this idea that if you have a mental illness you caused it by eating poorly or that you could just fix it by eating right.
That idea seems to me to be echoed in some of the more recent posts:
I would never think that a person with a mental health problem is to blame because of their diet. I don't think you can cure it with diet alone.lemurcat12 wrote: »First, the idea that bipolar or schizophrenia is CAUSED by diet choices or can be CURED by just eating a particular way.
First, I would not want to say anything about how diet affects a person with a personality disorder. They could be entirely neurological. I don't know.
But I would say that we should be open to the idea that a radical change in diet could strongly, positively affect people with mood disorders. Also we should be open to the idea that a poor diet could be almost debilitating to a person with a mood disorder, whatever may have caused it which I feel certain is never just one thing.lemurcat12 wrote: »Second, the idea that keto is the right way to eat if one has tendencies toward mental illness. I think it maybe can be helpful for some and is worth trying (although again causation is tough to sort out, which is why I mentioned what I think is a placebo effect of eating well for me, and of course just being healthier or losing weight or feeling more in control can be very helpful, and often it is combined with exercise). But there is also a documented effect in some of worsening or even leading to a depression or anxiety, as other posters mentioned, so pushing keto as a way to cure depression or other mental health issues (and suggesting it's really just the result of too many carbs and not something that might be out of your control or not caused by lifestyle choices and if you only ate right you'd be fine) strikes me as both inaccurate and cruel, as well as potentially dangerous.
I am sure not everyone involved means to be saying anything like that, of course.
As I said, this is all true but it is also true of medication so it is simply describing diet as another form of treatment, all of which tend to be case dependent and subject to the placebo effect. I don't think and have never said that keto is the right way to eat. I only say that it has the potential to treat depression. It didn't treat mine in a vacuum, mind. It does seem to have been the last piece of the puzzle for me. I've seen others say the same thing. It can make a huge difference for a lot of people so it is one of many WOE to try.
But, again, this is similar to drugs. Most psyche patients try various meds before finding one that seems to help.
Recover is a long process of learning what will work for you. If you are suffering with a mood disorder in particular, changing all aspects of your life until you figure out which ones work, until you figure out how to live and be happy is the way to go, I think.
I really think diet is a major factor.1 -
Absolutely and so can inactivity, in my case anyway. It is why people with anorexia tend to struggle with a low mood and can find it so much harder to reverse the cycle they get caught up in. I find that if I do not eat enough or do not eat the right things, my mood becomes irritable, angry and less rational. My depression also gets worse.0
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Absolutely and so can inactivity, in my case anyway. It is why people with anorexia tend to struggle with a low mood and can find it so much harder to reverse the cycle they get caught up in. I find that if I do not eat enough or do not eat the right things, my mood becomes irritable, angry and less rational. My depression also gets worse.
That and malnutrition.
Lack of any kind of nutrients really messes with the brain.0 -
cmriverside wrote: »Absolutely and so can inactivity, in my case anyway. It is why people with anorexia tend to struggle with a low mood and can find it so much harder to reverse the cycle they get caught up in. I find that if I do not eat enough or do not eat the right things, my mood becomes irritable, angry and less rational. My depression also gets worse.
That and malnutrition.
Lack of any kind of nutrients really messes with the brain.
Yep. I learnt through bitter experience that I have to keep myself topped up or my mood radically deteriorates.
I am guessing it impacts those with existing mental health conditions to a greater degree.0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »nokanjaijo wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
Depression isn't the sum and substance of all of mental illness (firstly),
This is a strawman. I don't think it is. I think it is a potentially debilitating mental illness with a known link to diet that is almost entirely a problem with outlook. That was what I said about it. I did not even suggest it was all mental illness.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »and it's also a spectrum.
I would hope that you'd grant that since it's also a spectrum, different people have different experiences with it and its affect on their lives, thus impacting the efficacy of any type of approach to its treatment.
I completely agree. In fact, this is the point I am making to you.
I am telling you that there exist people with debilitating, clinical depression who are able to effectively treat it with lifestyle and diet. There is data to indicate a strong link may exist between mental health and diet.
I see no reason to refer to discussion about this link as a non-starter. That's what I think you're wrong about.
I'd like to see case studies of this. Because I can believe the bit about situational depression being cured by lifestyle interventions, but debilitating clinical depression? Nope. They'd have to be hospitalized and fed the diet to achieve the intervention in the first case. Self-care falls by the wayside when you're clinically depressed.
You can't tell me that someone who can't be bothered to bathe or brush their teeth or even get out of bed is going to be able to affect a cure by shopping for and preparing a proper diet.
Debilitating isn't the same as incapacitating.1 -
nokanjaijo wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »nokanjaijo wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
Depression isn't the sum and substance of all of mental illness (firstly),
This is a strawman. I don't think it is. I think it is a potentially debilitating mental illness with a known link to diet that is almost entirely a problem with outlook. That was what I said about it. I did not even suggest it was all mental illness.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »and it's also a spectrum.
I would hope that you'd grant that since it's also a spectrum, different people have different experiences with it and its affect on their lives, thus impacting the efficacy of any type of approach to its treatment.
I completely agree. In fact, this is the point I am making to you.
I am telling you that there exist people with debilitating, clinical depression who are able to effectively treat it with lifestyle and diet. There is data to indicate a strong link may exist between mental health and diet.
I see no reason to refer to discussion about this link as a non-starter. That's what I think you're wrong about.
I'd like to see case studies of this. Because I can believe the bit about situational depression being cured by lifestyle interventions, but debilitating clinical depression? Nope. They'd have to be hospitalized and fed the diet to achieve the intervention in the first case. Self-care falls by the wayside when you're clinically depressed.
You can't tell me that someone who can't be bothered to bathe or brush their teeth or even get out of bed is going to be able to affect a cure by shopping for and preparing a proper diet.
Debilitating isn't the same as incapacitating.
Okay. I can see we come at this from having had different experiences with depression, then. I've suffered incapacitating depression, and had referred to it as debilitating. I did not experience as merely "outlook".
When I went through a period where I had panic attacks, that was not a matter of outlook that needed adjustment either. That needed therapy to get to the root cause because it was founded in childhood trauma.
I just want to point out that I feel that your initial post on this matter coming from your own perspective, valid though it is for you, isn't by any means universal, and it rather rankled to have had the struggles I and some other people whose struggles (some posting and reading this thread) I know of reduced to "outlook".
Saying that...
@lemurcat12 made a good point in that there are two separate conversations happening in this thread. One is about food causing issues with mental health (no, just no and that is something that I think is a non-starter except perhaps in the case where maybe mental health-type symptoms manifest as a variant of a different disease) and food having an impact on an already existing mental health condition.
The two conversations have been sort of crossing each other causing some confusion.
Here's my stance on the role food plays in my mental health.
I eat the proper amount of calories of a balanced, nutritious diet of the right (for me) macro balance to support my exercise habit. Because I've found that when I exercise, it keeps my depression at bay, keeps my anxiety at bay, and keeps stress manageable. It also manages my chronic migraines and my psoriatic arthritis.
What I find most interesting about discussions of this nature is that I truly feel that exercise is much more important than any particular way of eating in managing chronic conditions (and thus it would follow that one would need to eat in such a manner as to support a regular exercise habit), but no one ever emphasizes how important regular physical activity is.
6 -
My depression has been very close to being incapacitating. And it is rooted in childhood trauma. And I do think of it as being about outlook. I don't mean that as dismissive. There nothing mere about it. Changing the way I see the world has been what I can only describe as an epic battle. And I have had times where I had to wage it from my bed.
My own depression was once at a point where I was in such agony that the only reason I am currently alive is because I was so utterly incapacitated that I wasn't able to get out of bed in order to kill myself. You are not going to treat that with your own will and determination. So, yes, I do think there are levels of depression that need outside intervention.
But, I was at the nadir because of drugs. So I didn't see an option but to do the recovery on my own, forging new neural pathways, strengthening my prefrontal cortex, shrinking my amygdala, retraining my own mind. This changed everything. It was the most difficult thing I have ever done and it was exhausting up until I started a keto diet at which point it became rather easy.
I do think depression is basically outlook. I saw myself as worthless. I saw danger everywhere. I thought everything anybody said to me was an insult or an attack. I even thought there was something insulting in the sound of my own name. I saw everything in the darkest, most hopeless conceivable way. And it was because I was trained by abusive parents to think that way. It isn't merely outlook. My life was hell because of my outlook.
But I do think it is outlook. That's what it boils down to.8 -
nokanjaijo wrote: »
Depression really just boils down to outlook. The same is true of anxiety. It's a severe dysfunction in outlook but it is outlook. In fact, a great many therapists only use medication to ease the symptoms of depression during the actual treatment which is generally something more along the lines of CBT or DBT, which are meticulous attempts to change your own ways of looking at things. Then, once you get that worked out, they can take you off the meds.
This is true for situational depression. Clinical depression, which is an issue in brain chemistry not outlook, is a completely different animal.
Therapy can help create coping mechanisms that help prevent major depressive episodes in clinical depression, but the brain chemistry still needs to be adjusted in most who have it.
11 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »nokanjaijo wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »nokanjaijo wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Mental health is a bit broad...maybe depression. Does a bad diet contribute to Schizophrenia? BPD? Othello Syndrome? No it doesn't
@Panda8ach do you have any links to support there being any medical validity to your quoted personal opinion about diet relationship to mental health concerns that you mentioned?
You really think schizophrenia and bp can be cured by diet?
Not sure why you are asking a question about "curing" any health condition because that is a loaded word that can never be proven. I know some medical professionals and patients view one's diet may have an impact on most any health condition.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3004718/
Dietary Intake of Patients with Schizophrenia
"From a physical health perspective, the observed pattern of above-average caloric intake from a diet rich in saturated fat and sugar seems worrisome. Health burdens of such a constellation are apparent. High fat intake per se, for example, has been linked to a variety of medical problems such as coronary artery disease, hypertension, and cancer.27 It may also predispose schizophrenia patients to premature death from complications of these disorders.28 They already have a decreased life expectancy,29 and the overtly high total fat intake together with a pattern of low fruit and vegetable consumption may only accelerate this trend.
From the mental health perspective, the patients' subjective assessment of quality of life is considered to be a critical outcome variable in the care of individuals with schizophrenia.30 Patients already suffer from low quality of life inherent to the chronic nature of their illness.31 Overweight only further impairs quality of life.17 Distress related to high body weight is a modifiable factor, and the quality of life of schizophrenic patients can be improved substantially by proper weight management, apart from obvious advantages for physical health.15"
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2652467/
Schizophrenia, gluten, and low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diets: a case report and review of the literature
"Abstract
We report the unexpected resolution of longstanding schizophrenic symptoms after starting a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet. After a review of the literature, possible reasons for this include the metabolic consequences from the elimination of gluten from the diet, and the modulation of the disease of schizophrenia at the cellular level.
Conclusion
While more research is needed to confirm the association between gluten intake and schizophrenia and whether dietary change can ameliorate schizophrenic symptoms, health care providers could consider screening patients with schizophrenia for celiac disease and/or augment the medical regimen with a gluten-free or low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet."
ibpf.org/blog/how-food-changed-bipolar-disorder-me
How Food Changed Bipolar Disorder For Me
"Controlling our Bipolar Disorder is a full time job, even during the good times. We have meds, psychotherapy, and other standard treatments. However, have you considered food as a form of treatment? I've discovered there are certain foods that help me keep the Bipolar roller coaster on the up side."
Do you read the links you post? That person still takes medication and a careful read of the foods list pretty much shows a whole foods diet full of whole grains, proteins, and vegetables so he's got stable blood sugar that doesn't affect his mood. That's what he attributes his dietary intervention effectiveness to.
He's paid attention to his reactions (like headaches and brain fog) to certain things and eliminated them.
These are things any sensible person with any chronic condition who takes a proactive stance on managing their health does to better their quality of life.
It doesn't make the case for food as medicine. It might make the case for the importance of self-care and engagement in the process of such for people suffering from mental illness.
Thankfully it does make a case that food like Rx meds can help or hurt a pre existing physical and/or medical conditions.
Not necessarily. A proper diet can affect mood in anyone. I see that in my children, for pity's sake. It's more important in people with chronic conditions to be on point with diet and weight management, though. I'd agree with that.
Again, this is completely true of prescription medication.
That's not the point in question, though.
I don't know what you think the point is, then.
Not medication, certainly.
Mood isn't the sum total of mental health.
The efficacy of self-care only goes so far in having an impact on one's outlook, but that is true of people who don't struggle with mental health issues.
Thus, the thrust of the thread is really a non-starter since just about everyone feels better when they are eating a nutritious diet and getting proper sleep and exercise.
The heavy lifting in dealing with mental health issues is always going to be done with medication.
I agree that medications trump diet. I would include therapy as another strong factor. Although many may find that mood improves with diet and exercise, I knew it was time to try something different when neither of those were helping me like they had in the past. That was when I entered into counseling, and stayed with it for year. Did it fix everything, no. But it did give me strategies to cope in a different manner, and it helped to desensitize many of my raw spots. These are things that certainly wouldn't be done with food and exercise alone.
Are food and mental health related? Yes, I strongly believe this. In what manner, I'm uncertain. I think it's cyclical, and which is the precipitating factor is unclear. When I'm stressed I'm more inclined to eat less than optimal choices. At least now I don't beat myself up for it, or sit her feeling guilt and shame; perpetuating the cycle.
I think @earlnabby raised the issue earlier, and you're echoing it here. There's a chicken and egg scenario here that maybe is tangential to what some of the other posters are driving at, though.
Some of us (I'll include myself in this since I've suffered with depression in the past) have seen our mental health issue affect our ability to make optimal choices. We just don't care enough.
The other posters seem to be driving at the point that the choices affect the mental health.
I'm not sure that's entirely accurate or can be entirely entirely sorted. Again. Chicken/egg.
Some illnesses maybe related to the prenatal diet of the mother
7 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »nokanjaijo wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »nokanjaijo wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Mental health is a bit broad...maybe depression. Does a bad diet contribute to Schizophrenia? BPD? Othello Syndrome? No it doesn't
@Panda8ach do you have any links to support there being any medical validity to your quoted personal opinion about diet relationship to mental health concerns that you mentioned?
You really think schizophrenia and bp can be cured by diet?
Not sure why you are asking a question about "curing" any health condition because that is a loaded word that can never be proven. I know some medical professionals and patients view one's diet may have an impact on most any health condition.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3004718/
Dietary Intake of Patients with Schizophrenia
"From a physical health perspective, the observed pattern of above-average caloric intake from a diet rich in saturated fat and sugar seems worrisome. Health burdens of such a constellation are apparent. High fat intake per se, for example, has been linked to a variety of medical problems such as coronary artery disease, hypertension, and cancer.27 It may also predispose schizophrenia patients to premature death from complications of these disorders.28 They already have a decreased life expectancy,29 and the overtly high total fat intake together with a pattern of low fruit and vegetable consumption may only accelerate this trend.
From the mental health perspective, the patients' subjective assessment of quality of life is considered to be a critical outcome variable in the care of individuals with schizophrenia.30 Patients already suffer from low quality of life inherent to the chronic nature of their illness.31 Overweight only further impairs quality of life.17 Distress related to high body weight is a modifiable factor, and the quality of life of schizophrenic patients can be improved substantially by proper weight management, apart from obvious advantages for physical health.15"
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2652467/
Schizophrenia, gluten, and low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diets: a case report and review of the literature
"Abstract
We report the unexpected resolution of longstanding schizophrenic symptoms after starting a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet. After a review of the literature, possible reasons for this include the metabolic consequences from the elimination of gluten from the diet, and the modulation of the disease of schizophrenia at the cellular level.
Conclusion
While more research is needed to confirm the association between gluten intake and schizophrenia and whether dietary change can ameliorate schizophrenic symptoms, health care providers could consider screening patients with schizophrenia for celiac disease and/or augment the medical regimen with a gluten-free or low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet."
ibpf.org/blog/how-food-changed-bipolar-disorder-me
How Food Changed Bipolar Disorder For Me
"Controlling our Bipolar Disorder is a full time job, even during the good times. We have meds, psychotherapy, and other standard treatments. However, have you considered food as a form of treatment? I've discovered there are certain foods that help me keep the Bipolar roller coaster on the up side."
Do you read the links you post? That person still takes medication and a careful read of the foods list pretty much shows a whole foods diet full of whole grains, proteins, and vegetables so he's got stable blood sugar that doesn't affect his mood. That's what he attributes his dietary intervention effectiveness to.
He's paid attention to his reactions (like headaches and brain fog) to certain things and eliminated them.
These are things any sensible person with any chronic condition who takes a proactive stance on managing their health does to better their quality of life.
It doesn't make the case for food as medicine. It might make the case for the importance of self-care and engagement in the process of such for people suffering from mental illness.
Thankfully it does make a case that food like Rx meds can help or hurt a pre existing physical and/or medical conditions.
Not necessarily. A proper diet can affect mood in anyone. I see that in my children, for pity's sake. It's more important in people with chronic conditions to be on point with diet and weight management, though. I'd agree with that.
Again, this is completely true of prescription medication.
That's not the point in question, though.
I don't know what you think the point is, then.
Not medication, certainly.
Mood isn't the sum total of mental health.
The efficacy of self-care only goes so far in having an impact on one's outlook, but that is true of people who don't struggle with mental health issues.
Thus, the thrust of the thread is really a non-starter since just about everyone feels better when they are eating a nutritious diet and getting proper sleep and exercise.
The heavy lifting in dealing with mental health issues is always going to be done with medication.
I agree that medications trump diet. I would include therapy as another strong factor. Although many may find that mood improves with diet and exercise, I knew it was time to try something different when neither of those were helping me like they had in the past. That was when I entered into counseling, and stayed with it for year. Did it fix everything, no. But it did give me strategies to cope in a different manner, and it helped to desensitize many of my raw spots. These are things that certainly wouldn't be done with food and exercise alone.
Are food and mental health related? Yes, I strongly believe this. In what manner, I'm uncertain. I think it's cyclical, and which is the precipitating factor is unclear. When I'm stressed I'm more inclined to eat less than optimal choices. At least now I don't beat myself up for it, or sit her feeling guilt and shame; perpetuating the cycle.
I think @earlnabby raised the issue earlier, and you're echoing it here. There's a chicken and egg scenario here that maybe is tangential to what some of the other posters are driving at, though.
Some of us (I'll include myself in this since I've suffered with depression in the past) have seen our mental health issue affect our ability to make optimal choices. We just don't care enough.
The other posters seem to be driving at the point that the choices affect the mental health.
I'm not sure that's entirely accurate or can be entirely entirely sorted. Again. Chicken/egg.
Some illnesses maybe related to the prenatal diet of the mother
Needs citation.4 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »nokanjaijo wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »nokanjaijo wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Mental health is a bit broad...maybe depression. Does a bad diet contribute to Schizophrenia? BPD? Othello Syndrome? No it doesn't
@Panda8ach do you have any links to support there being any medical validity to your quoted personal opinion about diet relationship to mental health concerns that you mentioned?
You really think schizophrenia and bp can be cured by diet?
Not sure why you are asking a question about "curing" any health condition because that is a loaded word that can never be proven. I know some medical professionals and patients view one's diet may have an impact on most any health condition.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3004718/
Dietary Intake of Patients with Schizophrenia
"From a physical health perspective, the observed pattern of above-average caloric intake from a diet rich in saturated fat and sugar seems worrisome. Health burdens of such a constellation are apparent. High fat intake per se, for example, has been linked to a variety of medical problems such as coronary artery disease, hypertension, and cancer.27 It may also predispose schizophrenia patients to premature death from complications of these disorders.28 They already have a decreased life expectancy,29 and the overtly high total fat intake together with a pattern of low fruit and vegetable consumption may only accelerate this trend.
From the mental health perspective, the patients' subjective assessment of quality of life is considered to be a critical outcome variable in the care of individuals with schizophrenia.30 Patients already suffer from low quality of life inherent to the chronic nature of their illness.31 Overweight only further impairs quality of life.17 Distress related to high body weight is a modifiable factor, and the quality of life of schizophrenic patients can be improved substantially by proper weight management, apart from obvious advantages for physical health.15"
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2652467/
Schizophrenia, gluten, and low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diets: a case report and review of the literature
"Abstract
We report the unexpected resolution of longstanding schizophrenic symptoms after starting a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet. After a review of the literature, possible reasons for this include the metabolic consequences from the elimination of gluten from the diet, and the modulation of the disease of schizophrenia at the cellular level.
Conclusion
While more research is needed to confirm the association between gluten intake and schizophrenia and whether dietary change can ameliorate schizophrenic symptoms, health care providers could consider screening patients with schizophrenia for celiac disease and/or augment the medical regimen with a gluten-free or low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet."
ibpf.org/blog/how-food-changed-bipolar-disorder-me
How Food Changed Bipolar Disorder For Me
"Controlling our Bipolar Disorder is a full time job, even during the good times. We have meds, psychotherapy, and other standard treatments. However, have you considered food as a form of treatment? I've discovered there are certain foods that help me keep the Bipolar roller coaster on the up side."
Do you read the links you post? That person still takes medication and a careful read of the foods list pretty much shows a whole foods diet full of whole grains, proteins, and vegetables so he's got stable blood sugar that doesn't affect his mood. That's what he attributes his dietary intervention effectiveness to.
He's paid attention to his reactions (like headaches and brain fog) to certain things and eliminated them.
These are things any sensible person with any chronic condition who takes a proactive stance on managing their health does to better their quality of life.
It doesn't make the case for food as medicine. It might make the case for the importance of self-care and engagement in the process of such for people suffering from mental illness.
Thankfully it does make a case that food like Rx meds can help or hurt a pre existing physical and/or medical conditions.
Not necessarily. A proper diet can affect mood in anyone. I see that in my children, for pity's sake. It's more important in people with chronic conditions to be on point with diet and weight management, though. I'd agree with that.
Again, this is completely true of prescription medication.
That's not the point in question, though.
I don't know what you think the point is, then.
Not medication, certainly.
Mood isn't the sum total of mental health.
The efficacy of self-care only goes so far in having an impact on one's outlook, but that is true of people who don't struggle with mental health issues.
Thus, the thrust of the thread is really a non-starter since just about everyone feels better when they are eating a nutritious diet and getting proper sleep and exercise.
The heavy lifting in dealing with mental health issues is always going to be done with medication.
I agree that medications trump diet. I would include therapy as another strong factor. Although many may find that mood improves with diet and exercise, I knew it was time to try something different when neither of those were helping me like they had in the past. That was when I entered into counseling, and stayed with it for year. Did it fix everything, no. But it did give me strategies to cope in a different manner, and it helped to desensitize many of my raw spots. These are things that certainly wouldn't be done with food and exercise alone.
Are food and mental health related? Yes, I strongly believe this. In what manner, I'm uncertain. I think it's cyclical, and which is the precipitating factor is unclear. When I'm stressed I'm more inclined to eat less than optimal choices. At least now I don't beat myself up for it, or sit her feeling guilt and shame; perpetuating the cycle.
I think @earlnabby raised the issue earlier, and you're echoing it here. There's a chicken and egg scenario here that maybe is tangential to what some of the other posters are driving at, though.
Some of us (I'll include myself in this since I've suffered with depression in the past) have seen our mental health issue affect our ability to make optimal choices. We just don't care enough.
The other posters seem to be driving at the point that the choices affect the mental health.
I'm not sure that's entirely accurate or can be entirely entirely sorted. Again. Chicken/egg.
Some illnesses maybe related to the prenatal diet of the mother
Needs citation.
You mean rather than just vague woman shaming? As if pregnant women don't have enough to worry about with you know, growing a baby. Now we are going to get some dubious examples with no causative links which will no doubt suggest that a disease that crops up in adulthood can be attributed to something that was consumed (or not consumed) by the mother during pregnancy?8 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »nokanjaijo wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »nokanjaijo wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Mental health is a bit broad...maybe depression. Does a bad diet contribute to Schizophrenia? BPD? Othello Syndrome? No it doesn't
@Panda8ach do you have any links to support there being any medical validity to your quoted personal opinion about diet relationship to mental health concerns that you mentioned?
You really think schizophrenia and bp can be cured by diet?
Not sure why you are asking a question about "curing" any health condition because that is a loaded word that can never be proven. I know some medical professionals and patients view one's diet may have an impact on most any health condition.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3004718/
Dietary Intake of Patients with Schizophrenia
"From a physical health perspective, the observed pattern of above-average caloric intake from a diet rich in saturated fat and sugar seems worrisome. Health burdens of such a constellation are apparent. High fat intake per se, for example, has been linked to a variety of medical problems such as coronary artery disease, hypertension, and cancer.27 It may also predispose schizophrenia patients to premature death from complications of these disorders.28 They already have a decreased life expectancy,29 and the overtly high total fat intake together with a pattern of low fruit and vegetable consumption may only accelerate this trend.
From the mental health perspective, the patients' subjective assessment of quality of life is considered to be a critical outcome variable in the care of individuals with schizophrenia.30 Patients already suffer from low quality of life inherent to the chronic nature of their illness.31 Overweight only further impairs quality of life.17 Distress related to high body weight is a modifiable factor, and the quality of life of schizophrenic patients can be improved substantially by proper weight management, apart from obvious advantages for physical health.15"
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2652467/
Schizophrenia, gluten, and low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diets: a case report and review of the literature
"Abstract
We report the unexpected resolution of longstanding schizophrenic symptoms after starting a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet. After a review of the literature, possible reasons for this include the metabolic consequences from the elimination of gluten from the diet, and the modulation of the disease of schizophrenia at the cellular level.
Conclusion
While more research is needed to confirm the association between gluten intake and schizophrenia and whether dietary change can ameliorate schizophrenic symptoms, health care providers could consider screening patients with schizophrenia for celiac disease and/or augment the medical regimen with a gluten-free or low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet."
ibpf.org/blog/how-food-changed-bipolar-disorder-me
How Food Changed Bipolar Disorder For Me
"Controlling our Bipolar Disorder is a full time job, even during the good times. We have meds, psychotherapy, and other standard treatments. However, have you considered food as a form of treatment? I've discovered there are certain foods that help me keep the Bipolar roller coaster on the up side."
Do you read the links you post? That person still takes medication and a careful read of the foods list pretty much shows a whole foods diet full of whole grains, proteins, and vegetables so he's got stable blood sugar that doesn't affect his mood. That's what he attributes his dietary intervention effectiveness to.
He's paid attention to his reactions (like headaches and brain fog) to certain things and eliminated them.
These are things any sensible person with any chronic condition who takes a proactive stance on managing their health does to better their quality of life.
It doesn't make the case for food as medicine. It might make the case for the importance of self-care and engagement in the process of such for people suffering from mental illness.
Thankfully it does make a case that food like Rx meds can help or hurt a pre existing physical and/or medical conditions.
Not necessarily. A proper diet can affect mood in anyone. I see that in my children, for pity's sake. It's more important in people with chronic conditions to be on point with diet and weight management, though. I'd agree with that.
Again, this is completely true of prescription medication.
That's not the point in question, though.
I don't know what you think the point is, then.
Not medication, certainly.
Mood isn't the sum total of mental health.
The efficacy of self-care only goes so far in having an impact on one's outlook, but that is true of people who don't struggle with mental health issues.
Thus, the thrust of the thread is really a non-starter since just about everyone feels better when they are eating a nutritious diet and getting proper sleep and exercise.
The heavy lifting in dealing with mental health issues is always going to be done with medication.
I agree that medications trump diet. I would include therapy as another strong factor. Although many may find that mood improves with diet and exercise, I knew it was time to try something different when neither of those were helping me like they had in the past. That was when I entered into counseling, and stayed with it for year. Did it fix everything, no. But it did give me strategies to cope in a different manner, and it helped to desensitize many of my raw spots. These are things that certainly wouldn't be done with food and exercise alone.
Are food and mental health related? Yes, I strongly believe this. In what manner, I'm uncertain. I think it's cyclical, and which is the precipitating factor is unclear. When I'm stressed I'm more inclined to eat less than optimal choices. At least now I don't beat myself up for it, or sit her feeling guilt and shame; perpetuating the cycle.
I think @earlnabby raised the issue earlier, and you're echoing it here. There's a chicken and egg scenario here that maybe is tangential to what some of the other posters are driving at, though.
Some of us (I'll include myself in this since I've suffered with depression in the past) have seen our mental health issue affect our ability to make optimal choices. We just don't care enough.
The other posters seem to be driving at the point that the choices affect the mental health.
I'm not sure that's entirely accurate or can be entirely entirely sorted. Again. Chicken/egg.
Some illnesses maybe related to the prenatal diet of the mother
Needs citation.
Probably lectins or something.16 -
WinoGelato wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »nokanjaijo wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »nokanjaijo wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Mental health is a bit broad...maybe depression. Does a bad diet contribute to Schizophrenia? BPD? Othello Syndrome? No it doesn't
@Panda8ach do you have any links to support there being any medical validity to your quoted personal opinion about diet relationship to mental health concerns that you mentioned?
You really think schizophrenia and bp can be cured by diet?
Not sure why you are asking a question about "curing" any health condition because that is a loaded word that can never be proven. I know some medical professionals and patients view one's diet may have an impact on most any health condition.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3004718/
Dietary Intake of Patients with Schizophrenia
"From a physical health perspective, the observed pattern of above-average caloric intake from a diet rich in saturated fat and sugar seems worrisome. Health burdens of such a constellation are apparent. High fat intake per se, for example, has been linked to a variety of medical problems such as coronary artery disease, hypertension, and cancer.27 It may also predispose schizophrenia patients to premature death from complications of these disorders.28 They already have a decreased life expectancy,29 and the overtly high total fat intake together with a pattern of low fruit and vegetable consumption may only accelerate this trend.
From the mental health perspective, the patients' subjective assessment of quality of life is considered to be a critical outcome variable in the care of individuals with schizophrenia.30 Patients already suffer from low quality of life inherent to the chronic nature of their illness.31 Overweight only further impairs quality of life.17 Distress related to high body weight is a modifiable factor, and the quality of life of schizophrenic patients can be improved substantially by proper weight management, apart from obvious advantages for physical health.15"
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2652467/
Schizophrenia, gluten, and low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diets: a case report and review of the literature
"Abstract
We report the unexpected resolution of longstanding schizophrenic symptoms after starting a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet. After a review of the literature, possible reasons for this include the metabolic consequences from the elimination of gluten from the diet, and the modulation of the disease of schizophrenia at the cellular level.
Conclusion
While more research is needed to confirm the association between gluten intake and schizophrenia and whether dietary change can ameliorate schizophrenic symptoms, health care providers could consider screening patients with schizophrenia for celiac disease and/or augment the medical regimen with a gluten-free or low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet."
ibpf.org/blog/how-food-changed-bipolar-disorder-me
How Food Changed Bipolar Disorder For Me
"Controlling our Bipolar Disorder is a full time job, even during the good times. We have meds, psychotherapy, and other standard treatments. However, have you considered food as a form of treatment? I've discovered there are certain foods that help me keep the Bipolar roller coaster on the up side."
Do you read the links you post? That person still takes medication and a careful read of the foods list pretty much shows a whole foods diet full of whole grains, proteins, and vegetables so he's got stable blood sugar that doesn't affect his mood. That's what he attributes his dietary intervention effectiveness to.
He's paid attention to his reactions (like headaches and brain fog) to certain things and eliminated them.
These are things any sensible person with any chronic condition who takes a proactive stance on managing their health does to better their quality of life.
It doesn't make the case for food as medicine. It might make the case for the importance of self-care and engagement in the process of such for people suffering from mental illness.
Thankfully it does make a case that food like Rx meds can help or hurt a pre existing physical and/or medical conditions.
Not necessarily. A proper diet can affect mood in anyone. I see that in my children, for pity's sake. It's more important in people with chronic conditions to be on point with diet and weight management, though. I'd agree with that.
Again, this is completely true of prescription medication.
That's not the point in question, though.
I don't know what you think the point is, then.
Not medication, certainly.
Mood isn't the sum total of mental health.
The efficacy of self-care only goes so far in having an impact on one's outlook, but that is true of people who don't struggle with mental health issues.
Thus, the thrust of the thread is really a non-starter since just about everyone feels better when they are eating a nutritious diet and getting proper sleep and exercise.
The heavy lifting in dealing with mental health issues is always going to be done with medication.
I agree that medications trump diet. I would include therapy as another strong factor. Although many may find that mood improves with diet and exercise, I knew it was time to try something different when neither of those were helping me like they had in the past. That was when I entered into counseling, and stayed with it for year. Did it fix everything, no. But it did give me strategies to cope in a different manner, and it helped to desensitize many of my raw spots. These are things that certainly wouldn't be done with food and exercise alone.
Are food and mental health related? Yes, I strongly believe this. In what manner, I'm uncertain. I think it's cyclical, and which is the precipitating factor is unclear. When I'm stressed I'm more inclined to eat less than optimal choices. At least now I don't beat myself up for it, or sit her feeling guilt and shame; perpetuating the cycle.
I think @earlnabby raised the issue earlier, and you're echoing it here. There's a chicken and egg scenario here that maybe is tangential to what some of the other posters are driving at, though.
Some of us (I'll include myself in this since I've suffered with depression in the past) have seen our mental health issue affect our ability to make optimal choices. We just don't care enough.
The other posters seem to be driving at the point that the choices affect the mental health.
I'm not sure that's entirely accurate or can be entirely entirely sorted. Again. Chicken/egg.
Some illnesses maybe related to the prenatal diet of the mother
Needs citation.
You mean rather than just vague woman shaming? As if pregnant women don't have enough to worry about with you know, growing a baby. Now we are going to get some dubious examples with no causative links which will no doubt suggest that a disease that crops up in adulthood can be attributed to something that was consumed (or not consumed) by the mother during pregnancy?
Yeah, but I was going to wait for the no doubt dubious links to see just how egregious they were before making these points.
Thanks for starting the ball rolling.
You have alluded, with your comment about woman shaming, with my favorite argument against the food-as-medicine crowd, and that is the inherent victim-blaming in their position. I find it appalling.8 -
What some females are saying in peer reviewed papers today with training and knowledge on the subject of the impact of prenatal diet on future mental illnesses!
This is not a male vs. female issue but a human race concern were prevention may change the future of our children for the better as one can read in the full peer reviewed article or clips from it below. I think it is time to stop playing the blame game and start preventing as much future mental illness as possible by diet and other means. The dark past is in the past but humans should work to insure our dark past does not become the dark future for our future kids.
Preventing mental health problems in offspring by targeting dietary intake of pregnant women.
https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12916-014-0208-0
"The role of maternal dietary intake, specifically, has been highlighted after recent studies have shown maternal diet quality to predict mental health problems in offspring......"
Discussion
Here, we consider these findings in the context of the primary prevention of mental disorders and argue that interventions that target maternal diet could be of significant value.
Summary
It is clear that, in order to reduce the burden of mental health issues across the lifespan, urgent action is required, particularly in the field of prevention. We thus call for the application and evaluation of targeted, primary prevention strategies that focus on dietary intake with the view to improve mental health outcomes of mothers and offspring during the postnatal period and beyond.
The role of habitual diet and mental disorders
Recent evidence from observational studies suggests that habitual dietary intake can play a fundamental role in the risk for and progression of common mental disorders [12],[13].
Habitual diet is linked to mental health problems in children and adolescents......A number of studies in this area have demonstrated that `unhealthy’ childhood dietary patterns are linked to poorer mental health........A consistent trend was observed for the relationship between good diet quality and better mental health, and some evidence for poor diet quality being related to worse mental health.......
Maternal diet is a predictor of poor mental health of offspring
There is an established link between maternal diet and neurological, immunological, and central nervous system development of offspring, all of which can play a crucial role in the subsequent development of mental disorders......
Discussion
Primary prevention of mental health problems in offspring requires effective prevention and treatment of symptoms in mothers
We first need to acknowledge that maternal depression exacerbates a child’s risk of developing a mental disorder later in life. The presence of antenatal depression equates to a five-fold increase in offspring developing the condition by the time they are a teenager [2]. The reasons for this are multifaceted and likely have an epigenetic and behavioral basis [28]. For example, the evidence suggests that maternal depression is linked to being non-responsive to infant needs [29] and to compromised postnatal behaviors, including inadequate or absence of breastfeeding [30]. Breastfeeding is considered optimal nutrition in the first six months of life [31] for the infant due to its ability to support and develop a baby’s immune system [32], as well as prevention of later obesity, metabolic syndrome, cardiovascular disease, and behavioral and emotional problems in the child [14]......
`Whole-diet’ approach may be effective for the primary prevention of mental disorders'
Summary
Diet is a key modifiable risk factor for the development of non-communicable diseases, yet its role in the onset of mental disorders has received much less attention until very recently. There is now consistent evidence providing support for diet quality as a risk factor for depression. Evidence highlighting the potency of maternal diet on the mental health of offspring is emerging and is likely driven by diet-induced phenotypic changes at periconception and/or perinatally. This suggests that there may be great potential to target dietary intake during these pivotal times of fetal development. This paper has focused on the role of the perinatal and the `true’ postnatal period in which dietary intake has been demonstrated to be so important and which provides an accessible inflection point for intervention with women. That said, however, the importance of good quality dietary intake during early childhood and adolescence should not be ignored in the context of ameliorating risk of onset of a mental disorder. It is clear that in order to reduce the burden of mental health issues across the lifespan, urgent action is required, particularly in the field of prevention. We thus call for the application and evaluation of targeted, primary prevention strategies that focus on dietary intake with the view to improve mental health outcomes of mothers and offspring during the postnatal period and beyond.
9 -
Jeffagner2 wrote: »For me, eliminating sugar and eating unrefined, unprocessed whole foods has been nothing short of a miracle cure for the clinical depression I have battled since childhood. Way more effective than Zoloft.
@Jeffagner2 thanks for sharing your awesome success story by changing your diet. Many of us have experience both physical and mental health improvements when we found the right diet at works for us. Welcome to MFP and best of continued success.2 -
While what we eat can help/worsen certain issues, I believe people over-emphasise its importance and build unrealistic expectations. This is understandable since it's one of the few things that can affect health that we can actually control, and in some way it turns into this source of moral value and personal pride, but words like "prevent" and "cure" are dangerous, and we risk developing a narrow vision with the tendency to cherry pick whatever agrees with our views to make ourselves feel we made the right choices on something as essential as health. Not every health issue is our doing and not every health issue can be solved with personal effort. It's okay to admit that sometimes things just happen and we are not responsible for them.8
-
I really wish that going gluten-free/low carb had any affect on my ex-husband's paranoid schizophrenia.
Unfortuantely, I saw no positive changes in him when he changed his diet to this. I did, however, discover that his condition worsened considerably when he quit taking his medications and attending regular therapy sessions. I was never able to decide if he made those decisions becuase the mental illness was manifesting in more drastic manners or the disease became worse because of the decisions. Most likely it was a positive feedback loop and both were true.
This is not an exhaustive study. It is the experience of one woman who lived with a paranoid schizophrenic man for 4 years and had 7 total years involvement with that man. For him, dietary changes had no observable effect.5
This discussion has been closed.
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