What the Health?

lemurcat12 · August 2017

Gianfranco_R wrote: »

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lemurcat12 wrote: »

crazyravr wrote: »

hollysin81 wrote: »

crazyravr wrote: »

hollysin81 wrote: »

I haven't seen it but have heard enough to know I'm not going to bother.. Paleo and Vegan.. Two opposite ends of the scale, yet each will tell you it's the best (or only) option. Each to their own in terms of what people choose to put into their bodies for whatever reasons. I eat meat, but I source it locally and make the effort to know where it's raised and what it's been fed. So from a health point of view, I don't disagree with eating meat or animal products. I do however, disagree with mass produced, inhumanely farmed meat and animal products.

Interesting topic. I like it

Yes, but please do note that both of these ways preach to you the importance of nutrient dense foods. Paleo will never tell you not to eat veggies. Hell, I eat more veggies now than I ever did. Like wise for the vegans, eat crap load of veggies but instead of meat get your proteins elsewhere. That simple. Neither does advertise that you should be eating any kind of processed foods. So although they both might be very different ways of eating and ways of life, they are very similar.

I never said anything about processed foods. I'm not sure why you quoted me..

Just trying to point out that paleo and vegan although very different are pretty much the same in the end. Just like any religion if you break things down, its all the same thing, and they all have they firm followers, who in the end practice the same things. Just in a different way.

They are not pretty much the same.

I did paleo for a bit and know a number of people who do it and follow paleo stuff to some extent, and they don't think meat is bad for you and actually tend to eat more meat than the US average, from what I observed.

A vegan diet, even WFPB, is really hard to maintain without legumes, which paleo puts on the verboten list, and grains are also helpful.

Both are anti dairy, granted.

SOME vegans and most paleo followers (although weirdly, not all, fewer than one should expect, really), tend to eat lots of whole foods and of course ensure that lots of those whole foods are vegetables. You know who else does this? A lot of people who aren't vegan or paleo, like me. So that's not a special thing about vegan or paleo diets, especially since not everyone who does those diets does it.

Another difference: SOME paleo types (not all, not the ones I know best) tend to be anti carb and pro sat fat, and therefore warn against fruit (or more than a little or "low sugar" fruits). To the extent that paleo overlaps with keto, some may even warn against root veg (sugary carrots) or too many vegetables.

Both can be done in a way that accentuates eating lots of produce, making plants the center of the plate, doing lots of home cooking, so on -- in fact, I think both should, ideally -- but again that does not separate them from many other ways of eating, so it seems weird to claim that they are "very similar."

and perhaps even weirder that the most extreme vegan diet, fruitarianism, is definitely paleo

I don't know why that would be "even weirder." Of course vegan diets CAN also be paleo, although it would be hard to get what I'd consider adequate protein.

Typical vegan and paleo diets aren't pretty much the same, however.

I've also seen lots of paleo posters on MFP specifically who were anti fruit, as I mentioned. Less so off MFP, but there's definitely some overlap between paleo and low carb that results in that.

nevadavis1 · August 2017

Is ranting and preaching a form of exercise. If I do it can I eat some extra calories.

stanmann571 · August 2017

nevadavis1 wrote: »

Is ranting and preaching a form of exercise. If I do it can I eat some extra calories.

Yes, it accounts for ~50% of all calories earned by Crossfitters.

nevadavis1 · August 2017

Amy8Lyn wrote: »

I'd have a sense of humor if I didn't hear this multiple times a day, every day.

Amy8Lyn--I feel you for sure!

I've been vegan for 20 years. I would have given myself a coronary years ago if I hadn't been able shrug and say "ok, that's how you feel" and walk away from it. I've had people get right in my face, in person, and say "I hate vegans" (dude, how can you hate me, you don't even know me) and "veganism is stupid" to which my response is "well I guess that's your opinion" turn and walk away.

The thing I learned is that everyone thinks they're being incredibly funny and original with their bacon jokes, but they're all exactly the same and I've heard them 9 billion times. I think I've actually heard everything 9 billion times by now though, including people mocking my ethnicity right in front of my face. So, shrug, that's them, I'm going to try to not kill myself over it.

But I have sometimes gotten close to losing my cool. I was abused myself and one day at work in the lunch room (not current job, a prior job) some guy said he didn't think emergency should have to respond to multiple 911 calls from the same residence and that some women just like to be abused. I was so close to punching him that I had to dump my lunch in the trash and walk out of the room, which made everyone laugh. But at least I didn't punch anyone.

nevadavis1 · August 2017

stanmann571 wrote: »

Framing it as an allegedly ethical choice sets you up to feel superior to those who make other choices.

**animals are food. By framing your choice as ethical, you're demonizing food.

Nope, it's my ethics. I choose what I can live with and what I can't. Others make their own choices. There are things I do that aren't ideal in an ideal world--drive a car for example. But I reached a point in my own life where I couldn't eat animals any longer and it was the right choice for me for so many reasons. I'm not superior to others (ok, I'm superior to serial killers and scammers... but whatever) but I am better than the person I used to be in many ways, not just how I treat animals. Making a choice to try to act on my ethics helped me in ways that aren't even connected to eating. Some people don't see animals as food--I don't, at least not any longer.

Though I'm not a fan of What the Health honestly because you can be a healthy or unhealthy vegan and you can be a healthy or unhealthy non-vegan, in my personal opinion, mileage may vary.

But yeah, it is my ethics. Just like some people boycott made in china products or buy a prius or won't take a job at a tobacco company or choose how they vote based on their ethics. We don't all have the same ethics but we all have them (or at least most of us).

stanmann571 · August 2017

nevadavis1 wrote: »

show previous quotes

stanmann571 wrote: »

Framing it as an allegedly ethical choice sets you up to feel superior to those who make other choices.

**animals are food. By framing your choice as ethical, you're demonizing food.

Nope, it's my ethics. I choose what I can live with and what I can't. Others make their own choices. There are things I do that aren't ideal in an ideal world--drive a car for example. But I reached a point in my own life where I couldn't eat animals any longer and it was the right choice for me for so many reasons. I'm not superior to others (ok, I'm superior to serial killers and scammers... but whatever) but I am better than the person I used to be in many ways, not just how I treat animals. Making a choice to try to act on my ethics helped me in ways that aren't even connected to eating. Some people don't see animals as food--I don't, at least not any longer.

Though I'm not a fan of What the Health honestly because you can be a healthy or unhealthy vegan and you can be a healthy or unhealthy non-vegan, in my personal opinion, mileage may vary.

But yeah, it is my ethics. Just like some people boycott made in china products or buy a prius or won't take a job at a tobacco company or choose how they vote based on their ethics. We don't all have the same ethics but we all have them (or at least most of us).

As I put it to Jane, another ethical vegan. It's not that I'm objecting to the idea, but specifically to the way that particular commenter framed her position, by directly conflating her veganism with her other ethical choices and experiences.

lemurcat12 · August 2017

crazyravr wrote: »

show previous quotes

lemurcat12 wrote: »

crazyravr wrote: »

hollysin81 wrote: »

crazyravr wrote: »

hollysin81 wrote: »

I haven't seen it but have heard enough to know I'm not going to bother.. Paleo and Vegan.. Two opposite ends of the scale, yet each will tell you it's the best (or only) option. Each to their own in terms of what people choose to put into their bodies for whatever reasons. I eat meat, but I source it locally and make the effort to know where it's raised and what it's been fed. So from a health point of view, I don't disagree with eating meat or animal products. I do however, disagree with mass produced, inhumanely farmed meat and animal products.

Interesting topic. I like it

Yes, but please do note that both of these ways preach to you the importance of nutrient dense foods. Paleo will never tell you not to eat veggies. Hell, I eat more veggies now than I ever did. Like wise for the vegans, eat crap load of veggies but instead of meat get your proteins elsewhere. That simple. Neither does advertise that you should be eating any kind of processed foods. So although they both might be very different ways of eating and ways of life, they are very similar.

I never said anything about processed foods. I'm not sure why you quoted me..

Just trying to point out that paleo and vegan although very different are pretty much the same in the end. Just like any religion if you break things down, its all the same thing, and they all have they firm followers, who in the end practice the same things. Just in a different way.

They are not pretty much the same.

I did paleo for a bit and know a number of people who do it and follow paleo stuff to some extent, and they don't think meat is bad for you and actually tend to eat more meat than the US average, from what I observed.

A vegan diet, even WFPB, is really hard to maintain without legumes, which paleo puts on the verboten list, and grains are also helpful.

Both are anti dairy, granted.

SOME vegans and most paleo followers (although weirdly, not all, fewer than one should expect, really), tend to eat lots of whole foods and of course ensure that lots of those whole foods are vegetables. You know who else does this? A lot of people who aren't vegan or paleo, like me. So that's not a special thing about vegan or paleo diets, especially since not everyone who does those diets does it.

Another difference: SOME paleo types (not all, not the ones I know best) tend to be anti carb and pro sat fat, and therefore warn against fruit (or more than a little or "low sugar" fruits). To the extent that paleo overlaps with keto, some may even warn against root veg (sugary carrots) or too many vegetables.

Both can be done in a way that accentuates eating lots of produce, making plants the center of the plate, doing lots of home cooking, so on -- in fact, I think both should, ideally -- but again that does not separate them from many other ways of eating, so it seems weird to claim that they are "very similar."

Again you keep on missing my point. I am not saying the two diets promote eating the same stuff. Not at all. All I am saying is that both diets eliminate the protein source (meat on one side and legumes on the other), but they both realize that we need proteins so meat and legumes come into play.

A ton of the trendy WFPB stuff (see, e.g., Freelee, but also various doctor gurus like McDougall, Greger (who was involved in the "documentary" this thread is about), etc.) are very down on protein. They would not acknowledge you need more protein than what you might get eating whatever non animal based foods you may eat (often lots of fruit which is low protein). It's sensible, responsible vegans like Jack Norris who promote eating adequate protein and legumes and so on (most vegans I personally know), but these are often ethical vegans who are concerned with a nutrient-rich diet and of course the ethical issues, but not avoiding processed foods or what not.

Both promote eating crap load of fruit and veggies. Thats all.

Again, some in both camps do, just like some who are neither paleo nor vegan do. People who are vegan mainly for the ethics may not, may not promote any kind of diet, and I've run into (largely online) a disappointing number of paleo types who also do not promote eating lots of fruit and veg, but merely cutting out the foods they cut out (and often eating lots of meat).

Yes, I think the paleo diet properly done ought to involve a huge amount of vegetables and some fruit (amount based on preference). That doesn't seem to be the real distinguishing feature of the paleo diet.

I think you and I agree largely on what a good diet involves and that both vegan and paleo diets can be good diets, and are just debating over whether the things that make something a good diet are distinguishing features of paleo and vegan diets? Maybe? Not sure.

I'm not anti vegan or paleo, think both can be good diets (or bad diets, if done badly), and also think lots of diets that are neither vegan or paleo can be just as good (or just as bad, done badly).

janejellyroll · August 2017

crazyravr wrote: »

show previous quotes

lemurcat12 wrote: »

crazyravr wrote: »

hollysin81 wrote: »

crazyravr wrote: »

hollysin81 wrote: »

I haven't seen it but have heard enough to know I'm not going to bother.. Paleo and Vegan.. Two opposite ends of the scale, yet each will tell you it's the best (or only) option. Each to their own in terms of what people choose to put into their bodies for whatever reasons. I eat meat, but I source it locally and make the effort to know where it's raised and what it's been fed. So from a health point of view, I don't disagree with eating meat or animal products. I do however, disagree with mass produced, inhumanely farmed meat and animal products.

Interesting topic. I like it

Yes, but please do note that both of these ways preach to you the importance of nutrient dense foods. Paleo will never tell you not to eat veggies. Hell, I eat more veggies now than I ever did. Like wise for the vegans, eat crap load of veggies but instead of meat get your proteins elsewhere. That simple. Neither does advertise that you should be eating any kind of processed foods. So although they both might be very different ways of eating and ways of life, they are very similar.

I never said anything about processed foods. I'm not sure why you quoted me..

Just trying to point out that paleo and vegan although very different are pretty much the same in the end. Just like any religion if you break things down, its all the same thing, and they all have they firm followers, who in the end practice the same things. Just in a different way.

They are not pretty much the same.

I did paleo for a bit and know a number of people who do it and follow paleo stuff to some extent, and they don't think meat is bad for you and actually tend to eat more meat than the US average, from what I observed.

A vegan diet, even WFPB, is really hard to maintain without legumes, which paleo puts on the verboten list, and grains are also helpful.

Both are anti dairy, granted.

SOME vegans and most paleo followers (although weirdly, not all, fewer than one should expect, really), tend to eat lots of whole foods and of course ensure that lots of those whole foods are vegetables. You know who else does this? A lot of people who aren't vegan or paleo, like me. So that's not a special thing about vegan or paleo diets, especially since not everyone who does those diets does it.

Another difference: SOME paleo types (not all, not the ones I know best) tend to be anti carb and pro sat fat, and therefore warn against fruit (or more than a little or "low sugar" fruits). To the extent that paleo overlaps with keto, some may even warn against root veg (sugary carrots) or too many vegetables.

Both can be done in a way that accentuates eating lots of produce, making plants the center of the plate, doing lots of home cooking, so on -- in fact, I think both should, ideally -- but again that does not separate them from many other ways of eating, so it seems weird to claim that they are "very similar."

Again you keep on missing my point. I am not saying the two diets promote eating the same stuff. Not at all. All I am saying is that both diets eliminate the protein source (meat on one side and legumes on the other), but they both realize that we need proteins so meat and legumes come into play. Both promote eating crap load of fruit and veggies. Thats all.

Vegans can, like non-vegans, choose to eat a lot of fruit and vegetables. But it isn't required (unless you're just using "fruit and veggies" as a way to describe any plant at all. There are vegans who eat a lot of grains and fewer fruits and vegetables, for example.

Lavelle1980 · August 2017

The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. T. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.

The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.

Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.

I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...

There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.

janejellyroll · August 2017

rashadlc1980 wrote: »

The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. Thomas M. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.

The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.

Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.

I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...

There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.

It's T. Colin Campbell, by the way, not Thomas M. Campbell. Neither man has an unchallenged claim to non-bias, there are serious concerns about claims made by both.

The film itself is receiving criticism from science-based vegans, including RD Virginia Messina. Making claims that aren't backed by the facts is actually a poor form of vegan advocacy. If people know we're lying or being deceptive about the health risks of meat or the benefits of veganism, they will (legitimately) wonder if vegans are lying about other things as well. Here is a link to Messina's recent critique: https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/

ccrdragon · August 2017

rashadlc1980 wrote: »

The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. Thomas M. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.

The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.

Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.

I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...

There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.

Really?!? Here's a vegan's take on that pile of crap...
https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/

Let me add that I think it is great that you have found a WOE that works for you, but please don't support over-hyped propaganda and pseudo-science as a reason for choosing that WOE.

Lavelle1980 · August 2017

ccrdragon wrote: »

show previous quotes

rashadlc1980 wrote: »

The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. Thomas M. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.

The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.

Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.

I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...

There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.

Really?!? Here's a vegan's take on that pile of crap...
https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/

Let me add that I think it is great that you have found a WOE that works for you, but please don't support over-hyped propaganda and pseudo-science as a reason for choosing that WOE.

Um okay... I've read plenty of books before this film came out that scientifically support this claims.
.
I always present a challenge to my meat eating friends. Let's take a blood test and compare results. Then we can go from there. Nevertheless, I remember the days when I used to bash on vegans. In fact, I thought it was a satanic cult when I first heard about it.

ccrdragon · August 2017

rashadlc1980 wrote: »

show previous quotes

ccrdragon wrote: »

rashadlc1980 wrote: »

The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. Thomas M. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.

The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.

Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.

I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...

There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.

Really?!? Here's a vegan's take on that pile of crap...
https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/

Let me add that I think it is great that you have found a WOE that works for you, but please don't support over-hyped propaganda and pseudo-science as a reason for choosing that WOE.

Um okay... I've read plenty of books before this film came out that scientifically support this claims.
.
I always present a challenge to my meat eating friends. Let's take a blood test and compare results. Then we can go from there. Nevertheless, I remember the days when I used to bash on vegans. In fact, I thought it was a satanic cult when I first heard about it.

I am not bashing on vegans - I am bashing on the tripe presented in the mock-u-mentary 'What the Health' as a good vehicle for promoting the vegan lifestyle. As I said in my last post, I think it is fantastic that you have found a WOE that works for you.

Lavelle1980 · August 2017

janejellyroll wrote: »

show previous quotes

rashadlc1980 wrote: »

The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. Thomas M. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.

The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.

Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.

I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...

There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.

It's T. Colin Campbell, by the way, not Thomas M. Campbell. Neither man has an unchallenged claim to non-bias, there are serious concerns about claims made by both.

The film itself is receiving criticism from science-based vegans, including RD Virginia Messina. Making claims that aren't backed by the facts is actually a poor form of vegan advocacy. If people know we're lying or being deceptive about the health risks of meat or the benefits of veganism, they will (legitimately) wonder if vegans are lying about other things as well. Here is a link to Messina's recent critique: https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/

Thanks for the correction. I'm sure there are claims that are against it. Isn't that with everything? So sometimes I have to put the tests to myself. A group of friends started this high carb low fat. 1 was diabetic, Myself, suffered from gout. 8 out of 9 were able to improve every health area of their low, from low t, (my gout) , and diabetes. This was months before the documentary came out. The one that wasn't successful, actually tried, but had also suffered from other health issues, that are probably best with pharmeceutical drugs. We are all plant based now and haven't turned back. The biggest benefits was high energy. Most of us work office jobs.

The point of this all: There's always going to be criticism, There's always going to be a new study that will debunk something, including the vegan lifestyle. It's always best to try and test for yourself instead of using another mans claim. I put it to the test and it's the best lifestyle. I can't speak for anyone else. just me!

mph323 · August 2017

rashadlc1980 wrote: »

show previous quotes

ccrdragon wrote: »

rashadlc1980 wrote: »

The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. Thomas M. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.

The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.

Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.

I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...

There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.

Really?!? Here's a vegan's take on that pile of crap...
https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/

Let me add that I think it is great that you have found a WOE that works for you, but please don't support over-hyped propaganda and pseudo-science as a reason for choosing that WOE.

Um okay... I've read plenty of books before this film came out that scientifically support this claims.
.
I always present a challenge to my meat eating friends. Let's take a blood test and compare results. Then we can go from there. Nevertheless, I remember the days when I used to bash on vegans. In fact, I thought it was a satanic cult when I first heard about it.

Not sure what you think that would prove? It sounds like you think a meat-eating friend with your stats would automatically have a less healthy blood panel.

eta: Have you ever actually done this?

kimny72 · August 2017

rashadlc1980 wrote: »

show previous quotes

ccrdragon wrote: »

rashadlc1980 wrote: »

The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. Thomas M. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.

The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.

Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.

I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...

There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.

Really?!? Here's a vegan's take on that pile of crap...
https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/

Let me add that I think it is great that you have found a WOE that works for you, but please don't support over-hyped propaganda and pseudo-science as a reason for choosing that WOE.

Um okay... I've read plenty of books before this film came out that scientifically support this claims.
.
I always present a challenge to my meat eating friends. Let's take a blood test and compare results. Then we can go from there. Nevertheless, I remember the days when I used to bash on vegans. In fact, I thought it was a satanic cult when I first heard about it.

Nobody here is bashing vegans. No one is saying being vegan is unhealthy. We are arguing with the pseudo science promoted in this film. If someone believes a vegan diet is best for them ethically and/or health-wise, that's awesome.

Did you look at the link @janejellyroll (who by the way is vegan) posted?

cwolfman13 · August 2017

rashadlc1980 wrote: »

show previous quotes

ccrdragon wrote: »

rashadlc1980 wrote: »

The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. Thomas M. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.

The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.

Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.

I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...

There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.

Really?!? Here's a vegan's take on that pile of crap...
https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/

Let me add that I think it is great that you have found a WOE that works for you, but please don't support over-hyped propaganda and pseudo-science as a reason for choosing that WOE.

Um okay... I've read plenty of books before this film came out that scientifically support this claims.
.
I always present a challenge to my meat eating friends. Let's take a blood test and compare results. Then we can go from there. Nevertheless, I remember the days when I used to bash on vegans. In fact, I thought it was a satanic cult when I first heard about it.

I eat meat...all of my blood work is in the optimal range.

I'm not bashing vegans...it's a fine way to eat...but to suggest that people who eat meat can't be healthy is ridiculous. Some of the healthiest populations in the world eat meat. I also eat a ton of veg...for whatever reason it seems vegans and vegetarians think that because you eat meat automatically means you don't eat veg...I eat more veg than my wife's vegan girlfriend who is obese af...

And give me a break...sauteing cigarettes and saying that is the same as eating meat is over the top absurd and makes you and anyone who thinks this crockumentary is factual a fool...

Also, the China Study has many critics within the scientific community who have looked at what Campbell published vs the studies actual findings...they are critical, because they don't jive...

janejellyroll · August 2017

rashadlc1980 wrote: »

show previous quotes

janejellyroll wrote: »

rashadlc1980 wrote: »

The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. Thomas M. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.

The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.

Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.

I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...

There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.

It's T. Colin Campbell, by the way, not Thomas M. Campbell. Neither man has an unchallenged claim to non-bias, there are serious concerns about claims made by both.

The film itself is receiving criticism from science-based vegans, including RD Virginia Messina. Making claims that aren't backed by the facts is actually a poor form of vegan advocacy. If people know we're lying or being deceptive about the health risks of meat or the benefits of veganism, they will (legitimately) wonder if vegans are lying about other things as well. Here is a link to Messina's recent critique: https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/

Thanks for the correction. I'm sure there are claims that are against it. Isn't that with everything? So sometimes I have to put the tests to myself. A group of friends started this high carb low fat. 1 was diabetic, Myself, suffered from gout. 8 out of 9 were able to improve every health area of their low, from low t, (my gout) , and diabetes. This was months before the documentary came out. The one that wasn't successful, actually tried, but had also suffered from other health issues, that are probably best with pharmeceutical drugs. We are all plant based now and haven't turned back. The biggest benefits was high energy. Most of us work office jobs.

The point of this all: There's always going to be criticism, There's always going to be a new study that will debunk something, including the vegan lifestyle. It's always best to try and test for yourself instead of using another mans claim. I put it to the test and it's the best lifestyle. I can't speak for anyone else. just me!

Many people with health issues that are caused or made worse by a poor quality diet find that their health improves when they make any kind of positive change to their diet (including switching to a plant-based diet). This is because focusing more on the quality of what you eat can do great things for health and energy. But this isn't limited to people adopting a plant-based diet, it's also observed by people who go low carbohydrate, paleo, or keto or make a change like deciding to eat more vegetables.

So I certainly believe that you and your friends saw positive results from the change. I just disagree that it means one cannot be healthy while eating animal products or that a plant-based diet is the only way to achieve results like that.

There always will be criticism and new studies, but this doesn't mean we should conclude that there is no such thing as a truthful statement or that we can't make decisions about what reality really is.

cwolfman13 · August 2017

rashadlc1980 wrote: »

show previous quotes

janejellyroll wrote: »

rashadlc1980 wrote: »

The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. Thomas M. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.

The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.

Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.

I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...

There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.

It's T. Colin Campbell, by the way, not Thomas M. Campbell. Neither man has an unchallenged claim to non-bias, there are serious concerns about claims made by both.

The film itself is receiving criticism from science-based vegans, including RD Virginia Messina. Making claims that aren't backed by the facts is actually a poor form of vegan advocacy. If people know we're lying or being deceptive about the health risks of meat or the benefits of veganism, they will (legitimately) wonder if vegans are lying about other things as well. Here is a link to Messina's recent critique: https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/

Thanks for the correction. I'm sure there are claims that are against it. Isn't that with everything? So sometimes I have to put the tests to myself. A group of friends started this high carb low fat. 1 was diabetic, Myself, suffered from gout. 8 out of 9 were able to improve every health area of their low, from low t, (my gout) , and diabetes. This was months before the documentary came out. The one that wasn't successful, actually tried, but had also suffered from other health issues, that are probably best with pharmeceutical drugs. We are all plant based now and haven't turned back. The biggest benefits was high energy. Most of us work office jobs.

The point of this all: There's always going to be criticism, There's always going to be a new study that will debunk something, including the vegan lifestyle. It's always best to try and test for yourself instead of using another mans claim. I put it to the test and it's the best lifestyle. I can't speak for anyone else. just me!

Pretty much anyone who moves away from the SAD is going to experience improved health and improved health markers...I eat a balanced diet consisting mostly of whole foods...lots of veg and fruit, some whole grains, legumes, lentils, etc....i also eat quite a bit of fish and other lean sourced protein and beef about once per week...all of my health markers went from my doctor telling me I'd probably be sick if not dead by 60 if I didn't get it together to being optimal...and I eat meat.

Nobody is saying a plant based/vegan diet isn't healthy...it's just that there are many ways of eating healthy and the preachy thing gets a bit old and crockumentaries like this are big time on fear mongering propaganda to further an agenda.

One of my wife's very good friends is a vegan...she is obese...she has about zero fitness. Both my wife and I are carnivores that eat an overall healthy and balanced diet consisting of mostly whole foods...we are both lean and fit and have optimal health markers...

OliveGirl128 · August 2017

rashadlc1980 wrote: »

The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. T. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.

The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.

Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.

I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...

There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.

I did give it a go and besides having my cholesterol numbers worsen, I also began having unpleasant digestive issues, started feeling lethargic and 'off', had horrible bloating etc. As soon as I reintroduced dairy and a few ounces of meat every day, things cleared right up.

Glad you found something that clicked for you, but it's definitely not a way of eating that's for everyone.

AnvilHead · August 2017

cwolfman13 wrote: »

show previous quotes

rashadlc1980 wrote: »

ccrdragon wrote: »

rashadlc1980 wrote: »

The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. Thomas M. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.

The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.

Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.

I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...

There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.

Really?!? Here's a vegan's take on that pile of crap...
https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/

Let me add that I think it is great that you have found a WOE that works for you, but please don't support over-hyped propaganda and pseudo-science as a reason for choosing that WOE.

Um okay... I've read plenty of books before this film came out that scientifically support this claims.
.
I always present a challenge to my meat eating friends. Let's take a blood test and compare results. Then we can go from there. Nevertheless, I remember the days when I used to bash on vegans. In fact, I thought it was a satanic cult when I first heard about it.

I eat meat...all of my blood work is in the optimal range.

I'm not bashing vegans...it's a fine way to eat...but to suggest that people who eat meat can't be healthy is ridiculous. Some of the healthiest populations in the world eat meat. I also eat a ton of veg...for whatever reason it seems vegans and vegetarians think that because you eat meat automatically means you don't eat veg...I eat more veg than my wife's vegan girlfriend who is obese af...

And give me a break...sauteing cigarettes and saying that is the same as eating meat is over the top absurd and makes you and anyone who thinks this crockumentary is factual a fool...

Also, the China Study has many critics within the scientific community who have looked at what Campbell published vs the studies actual findings...they are critical, because they don't jive...

I'll put it more succinctly than that: The China Study has been scientifically shown to be a steaming pile of poo, based upon pseudoscience and cherry-picked study facts. It's about as credible as the "research" presented by Flat Earthers.

What the Health is an agenda-driven, hype-laden, fearmongering mockumentary which has been repeatedly dismantled (even by multiple pro-vegan authorities/sources) in the short span of its existence.

OliveGirl128 · August 2017

rashadlc1980 wrote: »

show previous quotes

ccrdragon wrote: »

rashadlc1980 wrote: »

The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. Thomas M. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.

The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.

Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.

I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...

There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.

Really?!? Here's a vegan's take on that pile of crap...
https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/

Let me add that I think it is great that you have found a WOE that works for you, but please don't support over-hyped propaganda and pseudo-science as a reason for choosing that WOE.

Um okay... I've read plenty of books before this film came out that scientifically support this claims.
.
I always present a challenge to my meat eating friends. Let's take a blood test and compare results. Then we can go from there. Nevertheless, I remember the days when I used to bash on vegans. In fact, I thought it was a satanic cult when I first heard about it.

My blood work panel actually got worse while I was doing my low fat/higher carb plant based experiment. I went in expecting to see improvements on my already good numbers and instead saw my numbers go in a negative direction-the first time this has happened in 5 years, (and I get blood work panels done twice a year). Going LFHC plant based did nothing beneficial for my health and instead I had some pretty crappy side affects from it. Ended up ditching it and reintroduced dairy and meat and I feel a lot better now. I go in for my next blood work in October and it will be interesting to see how that panel compares to the one I had while I was doing my plant based experiment, from earlier this year....

lemurcat12 · August 2017

rashadlc1980 wrote: »

show previous quotes

ccrdragon wrote: »

rashadlc1980 wrote: »

The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. Thomas M. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.

The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.

Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.

I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...

There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.

Really?!? Here's a vegan's take on that pile of crap...
https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/

Let me add that I think it is great that you have found a WOE that works for you, but please don't support over-hyped propaganda and pseudo-science as a reason for choosing that WOE.

Um okay... I've read plenty of books before this film came out that scientifically support this claims.

What specific claims?

stevencloser · August 2017

rashadlc1980 wrote: »

show previous quotes

janejellyroll wrote: »

rashadlc1980 wrote: »

The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. Thomas M. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.

The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.

Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.

I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...

There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.

It's T. Colin Campbell, by the way, not Thomas M. Campbell. Neither man has an unchallenged claim to non-bias, there are serious concerns about claims made by both.

The film itself is receiving criticism from science-based vegans, including RD Virginia Messina. Making claims that aren't backed by the facts is actually a poor form of vegan advocacy. If people know we're lying or being deceptive about the health risks of meat or the benefits of veganism, they will (legitimately) wonder if vegans are lying about other things as well. Here is a link to Messina's recent critique: https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/

Thanks for the correction. I'm sure there are claims that are against it. Isn't that with everything? So sometimes I have to put the tests to myself. A group of friends started this high carb low fat. 1 was diabetic, Myself, suffered from gout. 8 out of 9 were able to improve every health area of their low, from low t, (my gout) , and diabetes. This was months before the documentary came out. The one that wasn't successful, actually tried, but had also suffered from other health issues, that are probably best with pharmeceutical drugs. We are all plant based now and haven't turned back. The biggest benefits was high energy. Most of us work office jobs.

The point of this all: There's always going to be criticism, There's always going to be a new study that will debunk something, including the vegan lifestyle. It's always best to try and test for yourself instead of using another mans claim. I put it to the test and it's the best lifestyle. I can't speak for anyone else. just me!

You hear exactly the same claims from the people who do the exact opposite of you. Those extremely low carb keto eaters whose diets are mostly meat based.
It's all confirmation bias.
However, do you know what is proven to make you healthier? Getting to a normal weight range and eating an overall healthy diet, regardless the amount of carbs or fat you're eating.

stanmann571 · August 2017

cwolfman13 wrote: »

show previous quotes

rashadlc1980 wrote: »

ccrdragon wrote: »

rashadlc1980 wrote: »

The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. Thomas M. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.

The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.

Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.

I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...

There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.

Really?!? Here's a vegan's take on that pile of crap...
https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/

Let me add that I think it is great that you have found a WOE that works for you, but please don't support over-hyped propaganda and pseudo-science as a reason for choosing that WOE.

Um okay... I've read plenty of books before this film came out that scientifically support this claims.
.
I always present a challenge to my meat eating friends. Let's take a blood test and compare results. Then we can go from there. Nevertheless, I remember the days when I used to bash on vegans. In fact, I thought it was a satanic cult when I first heard about it.

I eat meat...all of my blood work is in the optimal range.

I'm not bashing vegans...it's a fine way to eat...but to suggest that people who eat meat can't be healthy is ridiculous. Some of the healthiest populations in the world eat meat. I also eat a ton of veg...for whatever reason it seems vegans and vegetarians think that because you eat meat automatically means you don't eat veg...I eat more veg than my wife's vegan girlfriend who is obese af...

And give me a break...sauteing cigarettes and saying that is the same as eating meat is over the top absurd and makes you and anyone who thinks this crockumentary is factual a fool...

wouldn't cigarettes technically qualify as vegan?

Lavelle1980 · August 2017

[/quote]

Not sure what you think that would prove? It sounds like you think a meat-eating friend with your stats would automatically have a less healthy blood panel.

eta: Have you ever actually done this?[/quote]

Only to myself, the before and after. I have presented a comparison with a couple of friends of mine but none have taken their blood test.

Lavelle1980 · August 2017

stanmann571 wrote: »

show previous quotes

cwolfman13 wrote: »

rashadlc1980 wrote: »

ccrdragon wrote: »

rashadlc1980 wrote: »

The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. Thomas M. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.

The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.

Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.

I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...

There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.

Really?!? Here's a vegan's take on that pile of crap...
https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/

Let me add that I think it is great that you have found a WOE that works for you, but please don't support over-hyped propaganda and pseudo-science as a reason for choosing that WOE.

Um okay... I've read plenty of books before this film came out that scientifically support this claims.
.
I always present a challenge to my meat eating friends. Let's take a blood test and compare results. Then we can go from there. Nevertheless, I remember the days when I used to bash on vegans. In fact, I thought it was a satanic cult when I first heard about it.

I eat meat...all of my blood work is in the optimal range.

I'm not bashing vegans...it's a fine way to eat...but to suggest that people who eat meat can't be healthy is ridiculous. Some of the healthiest populations in the world eat meat. I also eat a ton of veg...for whatever reason it seems vegans and vegetarians think that because you eat meat automatically means you don't eat veg...I eat more veg than my wife's vegan girlfriend who is obese af...

And give me a break...sauteing cigarettes and saying that is the same as eating meat is over the top absurd and makes you and anyone who thinks this crockumentary is factual a fool...

wouldn't cigarettes technically qualify as vegan?

Just because it's vegan, doesn't mean it's healthy. I can load up on vegan junk food all day and saturated oils, but doesn't mean it's a wise choice.

Lavelle1980 · August 2017

lemurcat12 wrote: »

show previous quotes

rashadlc1980 wrote: »

ccrdragon wrote: »

rashadlc1980 wrote: »

The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. Thomas M. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.

The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.

Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.

I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...

There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.

Really?!? Here's a vegan's take on that pile of crap...
https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/

Let me add that I think it is great that you have found a WOE that works for you, but please don't support over-hyped propaganda and pseudo-science as a reason for choosing that WOE.

Um okay... I've read plenty of books before this film came out that scientifically support this claims.

What specific claims?

The scientific claims from the China Study. Not just a film or a blog I read, but the actually 300 + page book that I picked up from the book store. It's backed by scientific studies.

Lavelle1980 · August 2017

cwolfman13 wrote: »

show previous quotes

rashadlc1980 wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

rashadlc1980 wrote: »

The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. Thomas M. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.

The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.

Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.

I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...

There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.

It's T. Colin Campbell, by the way, not Thomas M. Campbell. Neither man has an unchallenged claim to non-bias, there are serious concerns about claims made by both.

The film itself is receiving criticism from science-based vegans, including RD Virginia Messina. Making claims that aren't backed by the facts is actually a poor form of vegan advocacy. If people know we're lying or being deceptive about the health risks of meat or the benefits of veganism, they will (legitimately) wonder if vegans are lying about other things as well. Here is a link to Messina's recent critique: https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/

Thanks for the correction. I'm sure there are claims that are against it. Isn't that with everything? So sometimes I have to put the tests to myself. A group of friends started this high carb low fat. 1 was diabetic, Myself, suffered from gout. 8 out of 9 were able to improve every health area of their low, from low t, (my gout) , and diabetes. This was months before the documentary came out. The one that wasn't successful, actually tried, but had also suffered from other health issues, that are probably best with pharmeceutical drugs. We are all plant based now and haven't turned back. The biggest benefits was high energy. Most of us work office jobs.

The point of this all: There's always going to be criticism, There's always going to be a new study that will debunk something, including the vegan lifestyle. It's always best to try and test for yourself instead of using another mans claim. I put it to the test and it's the best lifestyle. I can't speak for anyone else. just me!

Pretty much anyone who moves away from the SAD is going to experience improved health and improved health markers...I eat a balanced diet consisting mostly of whole foods...lots of veg and fruit, some whole grains, legumes, lentils, etc....i also eat quite a bit of fish and other lean sourced protein and beef about once per week...all of my health markers went from my doctor telling me I'd probably be sick if not dead by 60 if I didn't get it together to being optimal...and I eat meat.

Nobody is saying a plant based/vegan diet isn't healthy...it's just that there are many ways of eating healthy and the preachy thing gets a bit old and crockumentaries like this are big time on fear mongering propaganda to further an agenda.

One of my wife's very good friends is a vegan...she is obese...she has about zero fitness. Both my wife and I are carnivores that eat an overall healthy and balanced diet consisting of mostly whole foods...we are both lean and fit and have optimal health markers...

I know plenty of vegans that are unhealthy. The ones I came across just eats a bunch of Oreo cookies and low activity.

Sabine_Stroehm · August 2017

rashadlc1980 wrote: »

show previous quotes

lemurcat12 wrote: »

rashadlc1980 wrote: »

ccrdragon wrote: »

rashadlc1980 wrote: »

The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. Thomas M. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.

The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.

Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.

I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...

There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.

Really?!? Here's a vegan's take on that pile of crap...
https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/

Let me add that I think it is great that you have found a WOE that works for you, but please don't support over-hyped propaganda and pseudo-science as a reason for choosing that WOE.

Um okay... I've read plenty of books before this film came out that scientifically support this claims.

What specific claims?

The scientific claims from the China Study. Not just a film or a blog I read, but the actually 300 + page book that I picked up from the book store. It's backed by scientific studies.

Yes, the China Study is Equally flawed, alas.

https://deniseminger.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/China-Study.html

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-china-study-revisited/

I'm HEAVILY plant based. But I thought What the Health played way way way too loose with the "facts".

What the Health?

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