August 2017 Running Challenge

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  • _nikkiwolf_
    _nikkiwolf_ Posts: 1,375 Member
    @MobyCarp I ran 12x400 with 200m recovery at ~1:51(7:27 pace) per interval, with a hammer drop to 1:38 for the last interval. It actually felt pretty easy Slowest interval was the first at 1:55. Had a 1 mile warm up in z1 and a 1 mile cool down in z1. My 5k PR last november was a 7:31 pace, for reference.

    I'm going with Ian Torrence's notion that doing speedwork, while good for all around fitness also pays dividends for Long distance in increast VO2 max and such.... I kind of felt like today's workout was too easy, I felt GREAT after I was done.

    @MNLittleFinn That is why 12x400 is one of my favorite workouts. It's fun to go fast and not feel totally wiped out afterward!! I'm hoping my friend's Hanson plan has another one on the agenda before our race in October (I'm not DOING Hanson's... just doing all her Hanson's workouts with her).

    I'll admit, I really thought that 12x400 was going to wipe me out. Very pleasantly surprised at how good it felt. The last rep at 1:38 made me wonder if I could have gone faster, since even on thr last one, dropping 12 seconds from my my rep time didn't feel like anything.
    @MNLittleFinn and @kristinegift My favourite is 6x800m. 400m intervals are just so short, I feel like I have to really sprint, and then it wipes me out. With 1600m, it gets hard to keep the pace up consistently until the very end. Plus 12 repetitions are so many that it starts to get complicated to keep track of how many I did :wink:
  • MNLittleFinn
    MNLittleFinn Posts: 4,271 Member
    Thanks @MobyCarp I was actually thinking of maintaining that pace and increasing the interval lengths like you mentioned.

    My tboughts were to try to increase the distance I can run thr 400 currently, since it feels food and is roughly analogous to my 5k pace.

    Ultimately, in the real long run, I'd like to get to doing like 4x1200-1600 at 5k pace, but I have no illusions about that really happening.
  • MobyCarp
    MobyCarp Posts: 2,927 Member
    Non-running update: Day 2 of ankle sprain. I could run 10 paces today, but that was sufficient to show that I shouldn't be doing any real running. Walking doesn't hurt as much as yesterday, but the ankle still likes it gentle and short.

    Went to club practice to check in with Coach and teammates on status and the question marks about my running the Flint Mile a week from tomorrow. It's cool on that front; if I think I'm healthy enough to run a mile race, I get in my car a week from today and drive to Michigan. If I don't, I stay home and drop a few texts letting folks know I'm bailing out.

    In regards to the speed work discussion, I paid attention to the workouts on the board at practice. They are illustrative of different types of speed work to prepare for different goals.

    For the Rochester Mile (2 days away):
    1 x 800 at T (lactic threshold)
    2 sets of (400, 200, 200) at R w/full recovery (n.b. "R" is like McMilan speed interval pace)

    For the Flint Mile (8 days away):
    1 x 800 at T
    2 sets of (600, 400, 200) at R with 400 recovery
    4 x 200 at R with 200 recovery

    General preparation for 5K cross country:
    1 x 800 at T
    2 x 2000 at T
    4 x 200 at R with 200 recovery

    For a 10 mile race (Hap Crim 10 mile, 9 days out) or longer race further out:
    1 x 800 at T
    3 miles at MP
    1 mile at T
    2 miles at MP
    1 mile at T
    1 mile at E (as in "easy")

    The point of this: Coach likes the 800 at T to really warm you up before a challenging speed workout. It helps you have a better workout when you get to the R pace that follows it for the mile race workouts, and prepares you to start the first 2000 solid for the 5K workout.

    You run more at faster paces to prepare for a shorter race, but the difficulty of the workout decreases as you get closer to race day. 5K and longer has a lot of T pace to build endurance. The mile race workouts have a lot of R pace to improve form and endurance at speed for relatively short distances. The really long interval workouts for true distance races vary paces to a) improve endurance, b) simulate tired legs without actually running enough miles to get beat up, and c) mentally prepare the runner for the idea that you keep running when you're tired, and you can run fast again after you've slowed down.

    There wasn't any workout with I pace (like McMilan cruise intervals) today; some weeks that pace is prominent. But that's usually when the club is gearing up for a major 5K or 10K event, and those are further out than what we're focusing on right now.
  • MobyCarp
    MobyCarp Posts: 2,927 Member
    Thanks @MobyCarp I was actually thinking of maintaining that pace and increasing the interval lengths like you mentioned.

    My tboughts were to try to increase the distance I can run thr 400 currently, since it feels food and is roughly analogous to my 5k pace.

    Ultimately, in the real long run, I'd like to get to doing like 4x1200-1600 at 5k pace, but I have no illusions about that really happening.

    It's quite possible. You build on past success, week by week. A sample progression might look like this.

    Week 1: 4x800 at I
    Week 2: 4x1000 at I
    Week 3: The "I pyramid", 1x800, 1x1000, 1-2x1200, 1x1000, 1x800 all at I
    Week 4: 2 x (1000, 1200, 1000) at I

    Long workouts at I typically allow "same time" recovery, i.e. if you ran 800m in 3:40, you'd get 3:40 recovery before starting the next interval.

    That's about as much I pace as I get on the marathon training schedule; after that the distances get longer and the pace slows to T, e.g. 2x2 miles at T with 2 minutes recovery, then a week alter 2x3 miles at T with 3 minutes recovery. If you want to focus on faster, there's no reason you couldn't progress to 3-4 x 1200, then 3-4 x 1600 at I pace, as long as you cut back after some of the hard stuff to give your body some recovery. But you might not see a whole lot of benefit from pushing the speed work that hard if your main goal is running trail ultras.

    Really, by the time I've done the Week 4 workout above and a 3 x 2 miles at T in the same training cycle, I start to wonder why guys fade 3 miles into a 4 mile race or 2 miles into a 5K. This stuff really helps the stamina for those short races.
  • Orphia
    Orphia Posts: 7,097 Member
    edited August 2017
    01 Aug – 8 km
    04 Aug – 34 km – marathon ready!
    07 Aug – 9.3 km in the rain
    08 Aug – 7.1 km including a few sprints
    09 Aug – 6 km
    11 Aug – 5.8 km
    12 Aug – 10.1 km including my 75th parkrun
    15 Aug – 14.5 km
    18 Aug – 8.1 km

    Goal: Run my first marathon on August 27

    MobyCarp wrote: »
    So, while in general shorter intervals tend to be run faster than longer intervals, it's not a simple formula of X length implies Y pace. There is considerable overlap. My standard joke that I tell to 5K runners is that from a marathon runner's perspective, a 5K is just an interval workout: 4800m at I, plus 200m at R.

    @MobyCarp It weirds me out when I see people's training plans for intervals, because my marathon pace IS my easy run pace.

    Is that normal for a first marathon?
  • MNLittleFinn
    MNLittleFinn Posts: 4,271 Member
    Thanks @MobyCarp I might just copy that progression and see where I get with it, getting some leg speed time in won't hurt, and could very well help me with this plateau.

    I have 9 weeks until my big race, and if I can work up along that progression roug hoy on schedule, I could be trying to run those long intervals before I'm done and still have several weeks to play with things and taper off for recovery. 6 miles total with the 12x400 wasn't real hard today, so maybe I can reap the benefits of longer Intervals at roughly my 5k pace
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
    Orphia wrote: »
    01 Aug – 8 km
    04 Aug – 34 km – marathon ready!
    07 Aug – 9.3 km in the rain
    08 Aug – 7.1 km including a few sprints
    09 Aug – 6 km
    11 Aug – 5.8 km
    12 Aug – 10.1 km including my 75th parkrun
    15 Aug – 14.5 km
    18 Aug – 8.1 km

    Goal: Run my first marathon on August 27

    MobyCarp wrote: »
    So, while in general shorter intervals tend to be run faster than longer intervals, it's not a simple formula of X length implies Y pace. There is considerable overlap. My standard joke that I tell to 5K runners is that from a marathon runner's perspective, a 5K is just an interval workout: 4800m at I, plus 200m at R.

    @MobyCarp It weirds me out when I see people's training plans for intervals, because my marathon pace IS my easy run pace.

    Is that normal for a first marathon?

    Yes. First marathon for most runners is about building the toughness to FINISH. Remember you ALWAYS PR your first Marathon. :smiley:
  • T1DCarnivoreRunner
    T1DCarnivoreRunner Posts: 11,474 Member
    8/1/17 - 3.01 miles treadmill before weight lifting.
    8/2/17 - 6.13 miles
    8/3/17 - 3.03 miles on the treadmill before weight lifting.
    8/4/17 - Rest day
    8/5/17 - 12.04 miles, rough BG before, during, and after run.
    8/6/17 - Rest day; weight lifting
    8/7/17 - Rest
    8/8/17 - 3.01 miles treadmill before weight lifting
    8/9/17 - 6.01 miles, "Race Pace" (not quite) - felt good and indicators for fat adaptation look promising
    8/10/17 - Rest (not exercising due to blood tests on 8/11)
    8/11/17 - Rest
    8/12/17 - Rest (lots of walking at state fair)
    8/13/17 - 9.00 miles
    8/14/17 - Rest
    8/15/17 - 4 miles treadmill before weight lifting. Having electrolyte issues
    8/16/17 - 4.85 miles. Still having electrolyte issues
    8/17/17 - 4.35 miles treadmill before weight lifting.

    exercise.png

    Upcoming Races:
    9/9/17 - Wabash Trace HM
    10/21/17 - Oregon Trail Run HM
  • 5512bf
    5512bf Posts: 389 Member
    On the topic of intervals I found them incredibly beneficial in the shorter races, 5k & 10k, and more of a way to break up the monotony of crushing 55-70 miles a week during marathon training. The longer the race, half & full marathons, it's more about tempo miles in my opinion. I'm not sure 12x400 intevals would get the HR up past where it would need to be for any length of time to have a ton of benefits for marathon's. I looked at @MNLittleFinn hr data on strava and it looks like your hr really never left z3. If you hr threshold is 170ish you'll need to run faster/longer to get into the proper hr zone to have benefits.
  • MNLittleFinn
    MNLittleFinn Posts: 4,271 Member
    edited August 2017
    @5512bf I noticed that too. That's why I was thinking like you said about going faster/longer. Today's run kind of confirmed that, it was as much a test run as anything, I'm going to go longer during next week's intervals to see if that gets my HR up there.

    Edit to add, my average HR on the intervals was too low, but max got into the right range, so I'm starting to think upping distance but keeping pace might put me in the right zone.
  • kgirlhart
    kgirlhart Posts: 4,493 Member
    August Goal: 60 miles

    8/1: 4 miles
    8/2: 3.1 miles
    8/3: 2.2 miles
    8/5: kr30dc day 1
    8/6: 5.4 miles; kr30dc day 2
    8/7: 3.1 miles; kr30dc day 3
    8/8: 2.7 miles; kr30dc day 4
    8/9: 3.1 miles; kr30dc day 5
    8/10: kr30dc day 6
    8/11: kr30dc day 7
    8/12: kr30dc day 8
    8/13: 6.3 miles; kr30dc day 9
    8/14: kr30dc day 10
    8/15: 3 miles; kr30dc day 11
    8/16: 2.5 miles; kr30dc day 12
    8/17: 3.2 miles; kr30dc day 13

    38.6/60 miles completed

    I had a great run tonight. It was almost cool at least for Texas in August. It was 82°F when I started out and by the time I was done it was down to 77°F. There was just enough of a breeze to be pleasant, but not windy. I am still one of the slower runners on here, but I am definitely improving. I ran a loop that is near my house so I didn't have to drive anywhere. After I finished I stopped by the house and picked up the dogs and drove them to the park for a bit. I prefer to walk them at the park instead of the neighborhood because I don't have to worry about loose dogs at the park. Plus the park is well lit and there are usually people there so I feel better being there when it is starting to get dark. They loved it because it was relatively cool. I felt like I could have kept going and they could have too, but it was getting dark so we came on home after a mile.

    Tomorrow will just be yoga and then Saturday will be a rest day. That worked out well because tomorrow is my 27th wedding Anniversary so I wouldn't have run any way.

    Good luck to all those racing this weekend!



    exercise.png

  • juliet3455
    juliet3455 Posts: 3,001 Member
    10 km River Bank Trails. Still feeling the effort of my Emperor's Challenge Race.
    Legs were heavy right from the start - so I put myself in LSD mode and just relaxed enjoying the view over the river and the cool air.

    08/01 0.0 km – 150.0 km - 0.0 km – YTD 862.57 km
    08/01 7.5 km – 142.5 km - 7.5 km – YTD 870.07 km
    08/03 14.0 km – 128.5 km - 21.5 km – YTD 884.07 km
    08/05 12.0 km – 116.5 km - 33.5 km – YTD 896.07 km
    08/12 20.0 km – 96.5 km - 53.5 km – YTD 916.07 km Emperor's Challenge My A Event for the Season
    08/16 6.0 km – 90.5 km - 59.5 km – YTD 922.07 km
    08/17 10.0 km – 80.5 km - 69.5 km – YTD 932.07 km

    exercise.png
  • Orphia
    Orphia Posts: 7,097 Member
    Orphia wrote: »
    01 Aug – 8 km
    04 Aug – 34 km – marathon ready!
    07 Aug – 9.3 km in the rain
    08 Aug – 7.1 km including a few sprints
    09 Aug – 6 km
    11 Aug – 5.8 km
    12 Aug – 10.1 km including my 75th parkrun
    15 Aug – 14.5 km
    18 Aug – 8.1 km

    Goal: Run my first marathon on August 27

    MobyCarp wrote: »
    So, while in general shorter intervals tend to be run faster than longer intervals, it's not a simple formula of X length implies Y pace. There is considerable overlap. My standard joke that I tell to 5K runners is that from a marathon runner's perspective, a 5K is just an interval workout: 4800m at I, plus 200m at R.

    @MobyCarp It weirds me out when I see people's training plans for intervals, because my marathon pace IS my easy run pace.

    Is that normal for a first marathon?

    Yes. First marathon for most runners is about building the toughness to FINISH. Remember you ALWAYS PR your first Marathon. :smiley:
    @Orphia Completely! My marathons so far have all been the same as my easy run paces (but the last 2 were not on purpose, just days that went from BQ-goal to just-finish-goal). Especially for a first marathon, you want to take it at a pace where you KNOW you can finish, which is going to be the same as your easy/long run pace :)


    @PastorVincent @kristinegift Thanks so much!!! That's incredibly reassuring!


    I need to get my head around the fact that I need to stick to my very easy run pace, so I can last the distance. I mustn't worry about my time, just about enjoying it and finishing. Listen, brain!!
  • anitamistry1
    anitamistry1 Posts: 44 Member
    6 Aug 3.15 km (1.95m)
    8 Aug PT session
    9 Aug 3.71 km (2.30m)
    10 Aug PT session
    11 Aug rest day
    12 Aug 3.69 km (2.29m)
    13 Aug 5km (3.1m)
    14Aug PT session
    15Aug rest day
    16 Aug I had every intention of going for a run but ended up making some art.
    17 Aug PT session

    Goal
    15.55km/50km
  • puglife456
    puglife456 Posts: 127 Member
    A nice trail walk with stretches to get me back into the swing of things

    August 9: 5.0 miles
    August 10: 4.0 miles
    August 11: 6.0 miles
    August 12: 0 miles
    August 13: 3 miles
    August 14: 0 miles
    August 15: 1 mile
    August 16: 1 mile
    August 17: 4 miles
    August 18:
    August 19:
    August 20:
    August 21:
    August 22:

    ...
    Total miles logged in August: 24.0 miles
    Total miles left to go in August: 66 miles