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Addicted to sugar DEBATE

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  • Carlos_421
    Carlos_421 Posts: 5,132 Member
    edited September 2017
    The issue with "sugar" or "carbs" on this site is really the opposite. It's so trendy to see sugar (or carbs) as the source of all evil, that people blame them and claim "sugar addiction" when the truth is (with some exceptions, sure) that their issues if they actually think about it are different. For example, they may have zero problems consuming fruit (and not even have an interest in fruit sometimes). Yet fruit is a high sugar food, and if the issue were -- as is often claimed -- a physical issue with sugar or even a "behavioral" addiction to "sugar" (whatever that would mean), fruit ought to inspire the same reaction.


    Here's the thing with fruit. I have eaten pounds of apples, peaches, cherries, watermelon, fruit salad, grapes, mangoes, pineapple. I have binged on hundreds and hundreds of calories and huge bowls of fruit. LOL, there are consequences to fruit. First of all the obvious consequence that we all know is the fiber/water/it has to go somewhere issue. Second is that it is really filling, so it's hard to keep eating it until the high kicks in, because I have to eat so much of it to get the same brain-kick as straight sugar. Straight sugar or candy is like mainlining fruit. So it is basically the same thing, only without physical discomfort/consequences.

    Anyone who has been an alcohol or drug addict knows that it starts with wine or beer on the weekends and/or pot and in the end, it takes heroin or meth and Jack Daniels or vodka in the handles - or six bottles of wine or 30 cans of beer Every Day. Hard liquor is easier, less bloating, quicker drunk. There is a progression and a tolerance, and it happens by over-loading those receptors in the brain. The desire to feel that dopamine rush is strong, and it gets harder to achieve, hence the higher alcohol percentage products (or just greater quantity.)

    Humans weren't created to ingest this level of concentrated sugars in such quantity. The dopamine receptor gates are blown wide open and more and more receptors are created to intake the overwhelming flow of dopamine released by the concentrated sugar (same thing happens with alcohol/drugs.)Those additional receptors mean additional cravings. If we didn't have processed sugars, we would all be just eating normal amounts of carbs and a little honey and maple because it would be so expensive. A grass (sugar cane and corn) that is so easily produced has made a big problem out of this. People with compulsion issues may have started out with a little behavior problem but it becomes a physical problem in time and with over-consumption and that is partly due to cheap availability in the last century.

    It's a physical/physiological thing that happens. It really happens. Of course it's complicated. Human behavior always is.

    The DSM isn't written to include it - yet. It will be. It may be "simple carbs" but I think it should be "sugar," it's just difficult to get a definition. And you can split hairs all you want, it's a real thing. Problem is, then that's one more "disease" the insurance companies and the food industry really doesn't want to see happen, so it's gonna take time and people speaking up. It took decades for, "Alcohol Dependence," to become something other than a character defect. It isn't all a thinking problem.

    Any research to back those claims?
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
    edited September 2017
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    ...and I finished off the Little Debbies. :) But now I'll be up until 1AM with all this zippity doo dah extra energy. :neutral:

    LOL! Can you get some housework done? Thats usually what i do :lol:

    Thank you for posting what you have in this thread. What still leaves me wondering though, is at least in my recollection you are literally the only poster who has said that you would eat straight sugar or large amounts of fruits.

    So perhaps an actual sugar addiction is a real but rare thing that is being co-opted by anti-sugar mania? Most people who talk about it say they got over their addiction by switching to fruits, or honey, or something else they consider "healthy". Honestly if everyone's situation sounded as you described, I would probably have a different opinion on the issue.

    I've done that too but I don't like fruit a lot. I would eat a lot of grapes, pineapple or dried fruit. Lots of dried fruit - like a soup bowl of raisins... maybe with a bit of cereal. I've "overdosed" on dried prunes and apricots when that was all I had. So not good.

    When I had fruit, I just wanted more sugars. I was not satiated. If I have my sugars, I NEVER say "that was enough because I had my little bit".

    I thought I recalled you posting recently that you eat berries on occasion since going keto. I'm confused now if this is your experience with fruit.
  • misnomer1
    misnomer1 Posts: 646 Member
    edited September 2017
    if someone were addicted to sugar, wouldnt they be eating table sugar directly as well? if that is not the case, they are not addicted to sugar, but something else.
  • ImmortalFire
    ImmortalFire Posts: 31 Member
    I reckon at the heart of this discussion it depends on how you define 'addiction'. If like me, you consider it to have a spectrum then yes, I believe sugar does have addictive qualities, though granted not as severe as drug/alcohol addiction.

    If you are a person who regularly consumes a large amount of sugar (any kind) and then stop all forms of it, do you feel a longing to eat something high in sugars/carbs? Do you miss it? Do you feel somewhat empty? Does it consume your thoughts? Do you get cravings? If you stop do you feel somewhat unwell/lethargic etc... I agree it depends on how much you consumed before you went cold turkey and everything else, but I don't think anyone can disagree that there are addictive qualities to sugar.

    For those who want a Journal Article/Literature Review: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.neubiorev.2007.04.019

    (PDF of mentioned article)
    http://www.lunaliving.org/pdf/evidence-for-sugar-addiction.-behavioral-and-neurochemical-effects-of-intermittent,-excessive-sugar-intake.pdf
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,575 Member
    misnomer1 wrote: »
    if someone were addicted to sugar, wouldnt they be eating table sugar directly as well? if that is not the case, they are not addicted to sugar, but something else.

    People do this. I've seen more than one person eat plain sugar. And even more eat straight honey (I've done that myself). Also knew a lady who ate sugar sandwiches (just butter and sugar on white bread).
  • Lois_1989
    Lois_1989 Posts: 6,410 Member
    Would it be safe to say that people are addicted to the good feels that sugar has? (Is that dopamine?)

    I was thinking about it, and if someone was truly addicted to sugar as a substance, then anything with sweeteners wouldn't hit the spot would it? That's why trading nicotine-free vaping for real cigarettes didn't work for me, but nicotine mints worked. It wasn't the act of smoking I was addicted to it was the nicotine itself. So sweeteners wouldn't work as a trade-off for sugar if someone was really addicted to sugar.

    Sorry if this has been already discussed, 4 pages is a lot of reading for someone with a short attention span.
  • Lois_1989
    Lois_1989 Posts: 6,410 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    Lois_1989 wrote: »
    Would it be safe to say that people are addicted to the good feels that sugar has? (Is that dopamine?)

    Could also be the taste.

    If it were simply physical, I think fruit or refined starches would be the same, and people would be drawn to plain sugar over sugar plus fat. That it's sugar plus fat suggests that either fat brings a good feeling as well (which I think is true) and that taste is part of it.

    Comfort food tends to also bring in memories/association/habit.

    Definately, I think that is why some people prefer sweet and others savory. I guess the savory would be more fat than sugar.
  • Lois_1989
    Lois_1989 Posts: 6,410 Member
    edited September 2017
    Someone a few pages back said about how you won't tell an alcohol addict to trade Jack Daniels for beer. I think in most cases the trade off can be something different. Most ex-smokers trade nicotine for food/sugar (not alcohol as the two generally go hand-in-hand). I think if you have an addictive personality you can be addicted to anything. Be it sugar/shopping/gambling/nicotine/alcohol/adrenaline (base-jumping anyone?). You hear of wealthy people being caught stealing because of the adrenaline kick they get.
  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 34,454 Member
    LOL, I will add that I've done 1400 skydives. I'm the sugar addict, so of course.
  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 34,454 Member
    ...and I'm agreeing with you Lois.
  • Lois_1989
    Lois_1989 Posts: 6,410 Member
    LOL, I will add that I've done 1400 skydives. I'm the sugar addict, so of course.

    Holy crap, 1400 skydives!! I would love to skydive, but I'm not sure I have the cahoonas.
  • animatorswearbras
    animatorswearbras Posts: 1,001 Member
    Following on from my previous comment about how I intend to quit smoking a lot can be said of using some of the same techniques to quit sugar or whatever your food addiction is.

    Firstly I intend to not have any cigarettes or smoking paraphernalia in the house I would say the same to people with certain food addictions is make sure you don't have that stuff in the house, get rid of your sugary cereals, biscuits and crisps if you can't stop yourself. Also don't give yourself opportunities to buy that stuff by making your lunches from scratch at work so you don't eat out and make food choices hungry. And I will also be avoiding situations where people will be smoking around me and offering me cigarettes (so the pub for me) in the case of sugar, at work the kitchen always has cake in it due to office birthdays etc so I try to avoid the kitchen during those times.

    I think the similarities and cessation methods can be applied to both. So I have no problems referring to it as an addiction if it helps others. :)
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    Lois_1989 wrote: »
    Would it be safe to say that people are addicted to the good feels that sugar has? (Is that dopamine?)

    Could also be the taste.

    If it were simply physical, I think fruit or refined starches would be the same, and people would be drawn to plain sugar over sugar plus fat. That it's sugar plus fat suggests that either fat brings a good feeling as well (which I think is true) and that taste is part of it.

    Comfort food tends to also bring in memories/association/habit.

    It's probably a combination.

    I can use tasty food (even sweets of certain kinds) to self sooth and have "abused" them in that way. I would not get the same effect from eating sugar straight, and do not gravitate to just sugar even in tasty forms. Maybe this means "I just don't understand," but I certainly have struggled with plenty of the same things people are calling "addiction."

    Problem (IMO) with the "addiction" term is that it brings in associations with other addictions (the idea that any substance that leads to addiction = bad and harmful) and in our culture the idea that the only response is total abstinence. If we don't assume this (kshama seems to be one who does not), I think the discussion becomes easier.

    I tend to think it's the taste too, the more I think about it.

    It would explain why vegetables don't do the same thing to the people in this thread who have experienced issues with fruit and disinhibited consumption.

    If the desire for a sugar "hit" was needed due to addiction (as I see it), even tomatoes, or squash, or just broccoli eaten in enough quantity would supply glucose to your bloodstream to give you that sugar hit that your body was craving.

    No craving happens for those foods, no anticipation (no dopamine release since dopamine is a hormone of anticipation) and we already know that unlike drugs of addiction, sugar doesn't hijack your pleasure centers and keep the high going.

    I remember there was some talk a few years back regarding a theory about some people needing a certain threshold of taste to be met in order to feel satisfied, a boldness of it, if you will. This could explain why it would take more fruit to satiate that sweet tooth than it would take plain sugar for those of you who had the issue.

    Just throwing out some guesses here trying to merge what I know from the science with your experiences to explain how you apparently are now both eating some sugar without issue.
  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 34,454 Member
    For the record ( not sure if you meant me or not, Em ) - I don't now eat sugar without an issue. I manage it, because I know that I cannot quit it completely. I simply have no overt consequences from my compulsive eating of refined sugary things. I eat a whole box of oatmeal cookies in one sitting, then don't do it again for a while. Mostly I eat a single serving of something when I'm out somewhere - but sometimes, Little Debbie.

    Progress not perfection.
  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 34,454 Member
    Lois_1989 wrote: »
    LOL, I will add that I've done 1400 skydives. I'm the sugar addict, so of course.

    Holy crap, 1400 skydives!! I would love to skydive, but I'm not sure I have the cahoonas.

    ha, dis-inhibition is a blessing and a curse.
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