Is bread really that bad
Replies
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deannalfisher wrote: »wdedoelder wrote: »I have been trying Cauliflower rice. It is a decent alternative if you are worried about the calories of rice. I am also trying to make bread so that it has less junk in it than store bought. As to the insulin comment, my daughter is a Type 1 diabetic and has to give insulin for all the carbs that she eats. Her body no longer produces the insulin needed. It makes sense that bread and rice or any carb would raise insulin usage.
there is a difference though between someone who needs to medicate for insulin and a healthy person who doesn't - which the OP appears to be
I think she means that increased insulin after carbs is an essential natural function (not a bad thing), to the point where those who don't produce enough of it need to get it from external sources.1 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »deannalfisher wrote: »wdedoelder wrote: »I have been trying Cauliflower rice. It is a decent alternative if you are worried about the calories of rice. I am also trying to make bread so that it has less junk in it than store bought. As to the insulin comment, my daughter is a Type 1 diabetic and has to give insulin for all the carbs that she eats. Her body no longer produces the insulin needed. It makes sense that bread and rice or any carb would raise insulin usage.
there is a difference though between someone who needs to medicate for insulin and a healthy person who doesn't - which the OP appears to be
I think she means that increased insulin after carbs is an essential natural function (not a bad thing), to the point where those who don't produce enough of it need to get it from external sources.
got that, but I think it muddies the conversation from what the OP was initially asking0 -
I have what may be somewhat of an ignorant question on the topic but I really want to know. So I do believe that we should not label food as "good" and "bad" but some food groups are correlated to certain diseases (ex: carbs and diabetes). I guess my question is based on what I have been hearing all my life that eating simple carbs can lead to diabetes. I know it is not that simple but I would like to know (if anyone can break if down for me) what it is beyond carbs or fats or whatever that leads to these diseases. I have known perfectly thin looking people who have gotten diabetes because all they eat is pasta and white rice, is that the main factor, that carbs are ALL they eat and not a balanced diet? This person is not overweight at all and does not eat particularly large portions. I am sorry if this is a dumb question but I have learned a lot since joining MFP and want to make sure I absorb all the knowledge I can on here
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Fitnessgirl0913 wrote: »I have what may be somewhat of an ignorant question on the topic but I really want to know. So I do believe that we should not label food as "good" and "bad" but some food groups are correlated to certain diseases (ex: carbs and diabetes). I guess my question is based on what I have been hearing all my life that eating simple carbs can lead to diabetes. I know it is not that simple but I would like to know (if anyone can break if down for me) what it is beyond carbs or fats or whatever that leads to these diseases. I have known perfectly thin looking people who have gotten diabetes because all they eat is pasta and white rice, is that the main factor, that carbs are ALL they eat and not a balanced diet? This person is not overweight at all and does not eat particularly large portions. I am sorry if this is a dumb question but I have learned a lot since joining MFP and want to make sure I absorb all the knowledge I can on here
Carbs don't lead to diabetes, being fat increases the risk, and by default if someone is overweight they are eating more calories than average, which may include more calories from carbs. That's the source of the mix up.
So it's like this:
- carbs don't lead to diabetes, but having diabetes makes controlling carbs necessary
- protein doesn't lead to kidney failure, but having kidney failure makes controlling protein necessary
- fat doesn't lead to galbladder disease, but having galbladder disease makes controlling fat necessary
....and so on.15 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »Fitnessgirl0913 wrote: »I have what may be somewhat of an ignorant question on the topic but I really want to know. So I do believe that we should not label food as "good" and "bad" but some food groups are correlated to certain diseases (ex: carbs and diabetes). I guess my question is based on what I have been hearing all my life that eating simple carbs can lead to diabetes. I know it is not that simple but I would like to know (if anyone can break if down for me) what it is beyond carbs or fats or whatever that leads to these diseases. I have known perfectly thin looking people who have gotten diabetes because all they eat is pasta and white rice, is that the main factor, that carbs are ALL they eat and not a balanced diet? This person is not overweight at all and does not eat particularly large portions. I am sorry if this is a dumb question but I have learned a lot since joining MFP and want to make sure I absorb all the knowledge I can on here
Carbs don't lead to diabetes, being fat increases the risk, and by default if someone is overweight they are eating more calories than average, which may include more calories from carbs. That's the source of the mix up.
So it's like this:
- carbs don't lead to diabetes, but having diabetes makes controlling carbs necessary
- protein doesn't lead to kidney failure, but having kidney failure makes controlling protein necessary
- fat doesn't lead to galbladder disease, but having galbladder disease makes controlling fat necessary
....and so on.
Okay that helps a lot! I guess my follow up would (if you can explain) be how a person who is not overweight or obese and never has been would develop diabetes or any other such condition?0 -
Insulin and sugar/carbs are in a delicate dance that people don't notice unless they develop some amount of insulin resistance (or failure). Neither are bad, in isolation they can be horrible, but together they keep everything working.
Anecdotal I know, but in my bariatric support group it is common with significant and sudden weight loss to have a gall bladder attack/failure too. If you don't give enough fat for the gall bladder to work on, it can lead to problems.
Let's get back to ancient Greeks and moderation in everything. Fewer complications that way.1 -
Fitnessgirl0913 wrote: »I have what may be somewhat of an ignorant question on the topic but I really want to know. So I do believe that we should not label food as "good" and "bad" but some food groups are correlated to certain diseases (ex: carbs and diabetes). I guess my question is based on what I have been hearing all my life that eating simple carbs can lead to diabetes. I know it is not that simple but I would like to know (if anyone can break if down for me) what it is beyond carbs or fats or whatever that leads to these diseases. I have known perfectly thin looking people who have gotten diabetes because all they eat is pasta and white rice, is that the main factor, that carbs are ALL they eat and not a balanced diet? This person is not overweight at all and does not eat particularly large portions. I am sorry if this is a dumb question but I have learned a lot since joining MFP and want to make sure I absorb all the knowledge I can on here
Every single person is born with their very own % chance of developing diabetes, cancer, Alzheimer's, and a host of other diseases.
This % chance changes over time based on people's environments and the choices that they make.
By being obese the chance of developing type 2 increases... but the base chance one was born with doesn't disappear because they always remain at a healthy weight and eat "perfect" foods.5 -
Fitnessgirl0913 wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Fitnessgirl0913 wrote: »I have what may be somewhat of an ignorant question on the topic but I really want to know. So I do believe that we should not label food as "good" and "bad" but some food groups are correlated to certain diseases (ex: carbs and diabetes). I guess my question is based on what I have been hearing all my life that eating simple carbs can lead to diabetes. I know it is not that simple but I would like to know (if anyone can break if down for me) what it is beyond carbs or fats or whatever that leads to these diseases. I have known perfectly thin looking people who have gotten diabetes because all they eat is pasta and white rice, is that the main factor, that carbs are ALL they eat and not a balanced diet? This person is not overweight at all and does not eat particularly large portions. I am sorry if this is a dumb question but I have learned a lot since joining MFP and want to make sure I absorb all the knowledge I can on here
Carbs don't lead to diabetes, being fat increases the risk, and by default if someone is overweight they are eating more calories than average, which may include more calories from carbs. That's the source of the mix up.
So it's like this:
- carbs don't lead to diabetes, but having diabetes makes controlling carbs necessary
- protein doesn't lead to kidney failure, but having kidney failure makes controlling protein necessary
- fat doesn't lead to galbladder disease, but having galbladder disease makes controlling fat necessary
....and so on.
Okay that helps a lot! I guess my follow up would (if you can explain) be how a person who is not overweight or obese and never has been would develop diabetes or any other such condition?
I have heard 2 schools of thought on this (please don't shoot the messenger here for the first theory)
1. There is a finite amount of insulin that the pancreas can produce during a person's lifetime - once that runs out, you are screwed and develop type 2 diabetes. I personally think this is crap.
2. IR (insulin resistance) develops in the body (bad diet, SAD, etc.), so the body produces more insulin to deal with the glucose in the blood, and IR is cumulative - i.e. it just gets worse as time goes by, so eventually the pancreas cannot produce enough insulin to handle all of the glucose and bam, you have type 2 diabetes. This is the more reasonable and scientific answer and the one that I subscribe to.2 -
Fitnessgirl0913 wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Fitnessgirl0913 wrote: »I have what may be somewhat of an ignorant question on the topic but I really want to know. So I do believe that we should not label food as "good" and "bad" but some food groups are correlated to certain diseases (ex: carbs and diabetes). I guess my question is based on what I have been hearing all my life that eating simple carbs can lead to diabetes. I know it is not that simple but I would like to know (if anyone can break if down for me) what it is beyond carbs or fats or whatever that leads to these diseases. I have known perfectly thin looking people who have gotten diabetes because all they eat is pasta and white rice, is that the main factor, that carbs are ALL they eat and not a balanced diet? This person is not overweight at all and does not eat particularly large portions. I am sorry if this is a dumb question but I have learned a lot since joining MFP and want to make sure I absorb all the knowledge I can on here
Carbs don't lead to diabetes, being fat increases the risk, and by default if someone is overweight they are eating more calories than average, which may include more calories from carbs. That's the source of the mix up.
So it's like this:
- carbs don't lead to diabetes, but having diabetes makes controlling carbs necessary
- protein doesn't lead to kidney failure, but having kidney failure makes controlling protein necessary
- fat doesn't lead to galbladder disease, but having galbladder disease makes controlling fat necessary
....and so on.
Okay that helps a lot! I guess my follow up would (if you can explain) be how a person who is not overweight or obese and never has been would develop diabetes or any other such condition?
Note I said being overweight "increases the risk". It's not a requirement to become diabetic. It could be genetic, autoimmune, caused by certain infections, or even ingesting certain poisons among other things. If you're at a healthy weight, being active, and eating a reasonable diet (doesn't have to be a specific diet or a severely cut out any foods) you're basically doing enough with what you can control, what you can't control... well, can't be controlled.3 -
So what I am getting is that is boils down to genetic predisposition and lifestyle choices. I know that being overweight or obese is but would you say that having an unbalanced diet may also be a contributing factor?0
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Fitnessgirl0913 wrote: »So what I am getting is that is boils down to genetic predisposition and lifestyle choices. I know that being overweight or obese is but would you say that having an unbalanced diet may also be a contributing factor?
It could be a contributing factor to many health issues, but it doesn't take much to have a balanced diet if you don't have a pre-existing condition. It doesn't require any kind of extreme. You don't have to cut out bread, you don't have to go raw vegan, you don't have to go paleo, you don't have to be afraid of eggs, you don't have to drink your vegetables or chug down apple cider vinegar. You just need to apply common sense and eat a reasonable diet, and understand that the occasional indulgence will not ruin your weight loss or your health.9 -
Thank you to everyone who responded! I was not intending to do any extreme diet or anything just looking for some basic knowledge and you all helped a lot! 6
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Fitnessgirl0913 wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Fitnessgirl0913 wrote: »I have what may be somewhat of an ignorant question on the topic but I really want to know. So I do believe that we should not label food as "good" and "bad" but some food groups are correlated to certain diseases (ex: carbs and diabetes). I guess my question is based on what I have been hearing all my life that eating simple carbs can lead to diabetes. I know it is not that simple but I would like to know (if anyone can break if down for me) what it is beyond carbs or fats or whatever that leads to these diseases. I have known perfectly thin looking people who have gotten diabetes because all they eat is pasta and white rice, is that the main factor, that carbs are ALL they eat and not a balanced diet? This person is not overweight at all and does not eat particularly large portions. I am sorry if this is a dumb question but I have learned a lot since joining MFP and want to make sure I absorb all the knowledge I can on here
Carbs don't lead to diabetes, being fat increases the risk, and by default if someone is overweight they are eating more calories than average, which may include more calories from carbs. That's the source of the mix up.
So it's like this:
- carbs don't lead to diabetes, but having diabetes makes controlling carbs necessary
- protein doesn't lead to kidney failure, but having kidney failure makes controlling protein necessary
- fat doesn't lead to galbladder disease, but having galbladder disease makes controlling fat necessary
....and so on.
Okay that helps a lot! I guess my follow up would (if you can explain) be how a person who is not overweight or obese and never has been would develop diabetes or any other such condition?
There's some fairly strong evidence that physical activity is also key in all of this. Sedentary lifestyles may matter as much as diet.
My anecdata: My family member was slightly overweight but had fine blood sugar levels for years, eating moderate amounts of carbs, mostly in the form of bread and pasta.
Then they were pretty much totally sedentary for about six months. And got diagnosed with T2 diabetes.
ANd then they were put on meds, but they started exercising regularly - about an hour a day of moderate cardio (fast walking). Six months later, their A1C has dropped six points and is about to be declared "normal" and taken off meds.2 -
In my experience, some (not all) keto people are very hostile to foods like bread, rice, pasta, etc and make a lot of unfounded claims about them.8 -
midlomel1971 wrote: »I eat bread every day and I've lost 30 pounds since the spring.
Woot woot1 -
deannalfisher wrote: »wdedoelder wrote: »I have been trying Cauliflower rice. It is a decent alternative if you are worried about the calories of rice. I am also trying to make bread so that it has less junk in it than store bought. As to the insulin comment, my daughter is a Type 1 diabetic and has to give insulin for all the carbs that she eats. Her body no longer produces the insulin needed. It makes sense that bread and rice or any carb would raise insulin usage.
there is a difference though between someone who needs to medicate for insulin and a healthy person who doesn't - which the OP appears to be
Yep no medical issues with insulin0 -
You're legendaryamusedmonkey wrote: »Fitnessgirl0913 wrote: »So what I am getting is that is boils down to genetic predisposition and lifestyle choices. I know that being overweight or obese is but would you say that having an unbalanced diet may also be a contributing factor?
It could be a contributing factor to many health issues, but it doesn't take much to have a balanced diet if you don't have a pre-existing condition. It doesn't require any kind of extreme. You don't have to cut out bread, you don't have to go raw vegan, you don't have to go paleo, you don't have to be afraid of eggs, you don't have to drink your vegetables or chug down apple cider vinegar. You just need to apply common sense and eat a reasonable diet, and understand that the occasional indulgence will not ruin your weight loss or your health.1 -
I love bread as well and make a a prat of my calories- so far- so good!0
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A couple things...
For one, keto is the fad diet of the moment for weight loss...as with any fad, there's always a lot of outlandish claims made.
For two, those who do not use keto as a fad most often have medical conditions such as being epileptic or diabetic for which going low carb or very low carb can be an efficient and effective way of dealing with those conditions. A type II diabetic for example would need to worry about fast carbs that cause larger spikes in blood glucose because they're insulin resistant...ie they don't get the insulin spike (enough insulin) to deal with the blood glucose.
In an otherwise healthy person, an insulin spike in response to blood glucose is what your body is supposed to do...it's the natural response and a metabolic necessity...what is applicable to someone with a medical condition isn't really applicable to the general population.
That said, I do believe the SAD tends to overload the body's ability to make enough insulin to deal with chronically high blood glucose levels with the copious amounts of free sugars that are consumed in the SAD. That's not to say that people need to cut everything out...there's this whole middle area that people tend to forget about and people seemingly tend to focus on the extremes of the spectrum and you'll read a lot of keto commentators making it as if you're not on keto then you're just eating a bunch of "junk"....
I eat a diet that is moderately high in carbohydrates...Most of my carbohydrates are derived from whole food sources...lots of lentils and beans and potatoes and other root vegetables and fruit and veg...I also eat rice and pasta and whatnot along with plenty of fish and other lean meats and healthy fats. Basically, I have a pretty balanced diet consisting of a variety of nutritious foods. I'm not pounding 40oz Big Gulps or drinking 3-6 Mt. Dews per day anymore...though I will have one from time to time.
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Alatariel75 wrote: »Bread's fine. I love bread! As long as it fits in your calorie limits and you're also getting enough protein & fat & nutrient dense foods eat whatever you like.
Personally, I look for breads without high-fructose corn syrup - because those actually seem to make me hungrier.
The whole sugar in bread thing freaked me out when I went to America. Bread here in Australia just don't have sugar. Even just plain white sandwich bread you buy from the store doesn't have sugar in it... Frankly, American bread was just weird, to me. I couldn't eat it.
Vegemite is weird. American bread is awesome. USA! USA! USA!5 -
You're legendaryamusedmonkey wrote: »Fitnessgirl0913 wrote: »So what I am getting is that is boils down to genetic predisposition and lifestyle choices. I know that being overweight or obese is but would you say that having an unbalanced diet may also be a contributing factor?
It could be a contributing factor to many health issues, but it doesn't take much to have a balanced diet if you don't have a pre-existing condition. It doesn't require any kind of extreme. You don't have to cut out bread, you don't have to go raw vegan, you don't have to go paleo, you don't have to be afraid of eggs, you don't have to drink your vegetables or chug down apple cider vinegar. You just need to apply common sense and eat a reasonable diet, and understand that the occasional indulgence will not ruin your weight loss or your health.
Oh no, I just had to dive deep and find out as much as I could about this topic because I used to be pre-diabetic (the reason I decided to lose weight, which worked).3 -
Documentaries skew the movie to their viewpoint. It's rare to find one that pretty balanced and giving EQUAL evidence for both sides.TorresCarmeniifym wrote: »Some are, some are not- Check out, Netflix, "Whats With Wheat" it talks about why so many people now are having issues digesting wheat/gluten. GMO'd wheat does more damage than good. Look for Dave's Killer Bread 21 grain or Non-GMO bread. Sourdough is good because the process to make it is different.
And really, how many deaths are attributed to GMO wheat? Versus organic peanut butter?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
4 -
You don't need meat as a source of protein either. However I'll always have me some barbecue cause it's good.Ericnutrition wrote: »deputy_randolph wrote: »I eat bread everyday...it's delicious. You need carbs for life.
But you don't need bread as your source for carbs.
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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From an expert at the same university:Ericnutrition wrote: »HeidiCooksSupper wrote: »It's called insulin response and, yes, it can be affected by consumption of foodstuffs that cause spikes in that insulin response. Here's information from a reliable internet source that explains about carbohydrates and insulin response. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/carbohydrates/carbohydrates-and-blood-sugar/
How dare you post some garbage article by some garbage Google "expert."
Wait a minute, it's from Harvard University! Guess it's not woo after all.
9. Every month, I read about a new type of diet that promises to help me lose weight fast. How can I tell if a diet is safe and effective?
Rigid diets usually fail in the long run. I would be wary of any diet that eliminates entire food groups or drastically reduces one food component (such as diet that is very low in carbohydrates). Diets that recommend skipping meals or replacing meals with special supplements are also suspect.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/2007/04/26/ask-the-expert-controlling-your-weight/
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Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Diabetes is first and fore most genetic for those that have it or attain it later in life if they are at a normal weight.Fitnessgirl0913 wrote: »I have what may be somewhat of an ignorant question on the topic but I really want to know. So I do believe that we should not label food as "good" and "bad" but some food groups are correlated to certain diseases (ex: carbs and diabetes). I guess my question is based on what I have been hearing all my life that eating simple carbs can lead to diabetes. I know it is not that simple but I would like to know (if anyone can break if down for me) what it is beyond carbs or fats or whatever that leads to these diseases. I have known perfectly thin looking people who have gotten diabetes because all they eat is pasta and white rice, is that the main factor, that carbs are ALL they eat and not a balanced diet? This person is not overweight at all and does not eat particularly large portions. I am sorry if this is a dumb question but I have learned a lot since joining MFP and want to make sure I absorb all the knowledge I can on here
Onset diabetes happens, but it's usually because one's weight is pretty much out of control. And getting very overweight isn't just about carbs. Usually people who are very overweight OVER CONSUME just about everything they eat. So protein, carbs, fats and alcohol.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Fitnessgirl0913 wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Fitnessgirl0913 wrote: »I have what may be somewhat of an ignorant question on the topic but I really want to know. So I do believe that we should not label food as "good" and "bad" but some food groups are correlated to certain diseases (ex: carbs and diabetes). I guess my question is based on what I have been hearing all my life that eating simple carbs can lead to diabetes. I know it is not that simple but I would like to know (if anyone can break if down for me) what it is beyond carbs or fats or whatever that leads to these diseases. I have known perfectly thin looking people who have gotten diabetes because all they eat is pasta and white rice, is that the main factor, that carbs are ALL they eat and not a balanced diet? This person is not overweight at all and does not eat particularly large portions. I am sorry if this is a dumb question but I have learned a lot since joining MFP and want to make sure I absorb all the knowledge I can on here
Carbs don't lead to diabetes, being fat increases the risk, and by default if someone is overweight they are eating more calories than average, which may include more calories from carbs. That's the source of the mix up.
So it's like this:
- carbs don't lead to diabetes, but having diabetes makes controlling carbs necessary
- protein doesn't lead to kidney failure, but having kidney failure makes controlling protein necessary
- fat doesn't lead to galbladder disease, but having galbladder disease makes controlling fat necessary
....and so on.
Okay that helps a lot! I guess my follow up would (if you can explain) be how a person who is not overweight or obese and never has been would develop diabetes or any other such condition?
I have heard 2 schools of thought on this (please don't shoot the messenger here for the first theory)
1. There is a finite amount of insulin that the pancreas can produce during a person's lifetime - once that runs out, you are screwed and develop type 2 diabetes. I personally think this is crap.
2. IR (insulin resistance) develops in the body (bad diet, SAD, etc.), so the body produces more insulin to deal with the glucose in the blood, and IR is cumulative - i.e. it just gets worse as time goes by, so eventually the pancreas cannot produce enough insulin to handle all of the glucose and bam, you have type 2 diabetes. This is the more reasonable and scientific answer and the one that I subscribe to.
Number 1 would be crap because "the pancreas not producing insulin anymore" would be type 1.2 -
Then I like Satan.TeinyWinehausen wrote: »Bread is the devil.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
3 -
stevencloser wrote: »Fitnessgirl0913 wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Fitnessgirl0913 wrote: »I have what may be somewhat of an ignorant question on the topic but I really want to know. So I do believe that we should not label food as "good" and "bad" but some food groups are correlated to certain diseases (ex: carbs and diabetes). I guess my question is based on what I have been hearing all my life that eating simple carbs can lead to diabetes. I know it is not that simple but I would like to know (if anyone can break if down for me) what it is beyond carbs or fats or whatever that leads to these diseases. I have known perfectly thin looking people who have gotten diabetes because all they eat is pasta and white rice, is that the main factor, that carbs are ALL they eat and not a balanced diet? This person is not overweight at all and does not eat particularly large portions. I am sorry if this is a dumb question but I have learned a lot since joining MFP and want to make sure I absorb all the knowledge I can on here
Carbs don't lead to diabetes, being fat increases the risk, and by default if someone is overweight they are eating more calories than average, which may include more calories from carbs. That's the source of the mix up.
So it's like this:
- carbs don't lead to diabetes, but having diabetes makes controlling carbs necessary
- protein doesn't lead to kidney failure, but having kidney failure makes controlling protein necessary
- fat doesn't lead to galbladder disease, but having galbladder disease makes controlling fat necessary
....and so on.
Okay that helps a lot! I guess my follow up would (if you can explain) be how a person who is not overweight or obese and never has been would develop diabetes or any other such condition?
I have heard 2 schools of thought on this (please don't shoot the messenger here for the first theory)
1. There is a finite amount of insulin that the pancreas can produce during a person's lifetime - once that runs out, you are screwed and develop type 2 diabetes. I personally think this is crap.
2. IR (insulin resistance) develops in the body (bad diet, SAD, etc.), so the body produces more insulin to deal with the glucose in the blood, and IR is cumulative - i.e. it just gets worse as time goes by, so eventually the pancreas cannot produce enough insulin to handle all of the glucose and bam, you have type 2 diabetes. This is the more reasonable and scientific answer and the one that I subscribe to.
Number 1 would be crap because "the pancreas not producing insulin anymore" would be type 1.
And number 2 is reversible.4
This discussion has been closed.
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