Pros and cons of a Keto Diet
Replies
-
Pro: can help you control your epilepsy
Con: can be dangerous - pay close attention to your doctor & dietician5 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.
You know what? It's not even just the unsubstantiated claims. I realized this reading the discussion.
It's also the subtle, underlying premise: that's it's the way of eating that is responsible for everything experienced by keto eaters.
The simple fact is that losing weight is responsible for a large amount of what keto proponents attribute to keto itself and that the push back they receive is because they attribute it solely to their dietary choice.
Keto itself isn't responsible for a laundry list of health improvements that a lot of you folks claim it to be. Weight loss is. If more of you stopped with that ish, I think there'd be a lot less push back AND woo voting.
I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
As mmapags said, it takes a mere 10% reduction in weight to see benefits.
Additionally, many dieters experience relief of many symptoms simply by no longer OVEReating. The benefits have nothing to do with how they are eating, it has to do with eating less.
I believe that you have formed your view is the one that's opinion based, not mine.
Mine is an opinion, which is why I wrote "I think" instead of "a fact". It is based on my own experiences and what I have heard from other low carbers who are using the diet to address health issues on the Low Carber Daily boards.
But yes, it could be a 10% reduction in weight responsible for some benefits. No for others though. Within the first month of keto, during which I lost 10 lbs (over 5% reduction) and experienced better skin and hair, steadier energy, better BP, better BG control and no more reactive hypoglycemia, fewer headaches, and better cognitive abilities. For me, someone with IR, benefits came quickly.I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
You did state "I think" in regard to the previous posters statements being opinion but not in regard to the, as yet, unsubstantiated statement above. You stated unequivocally that Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight loss. You are saying that as a person with IR. Keto'er =/= IR. People do it for all reasons.
Again, if you have statistical data or studies that show your statement to be true, please do share. If not, fell free to identify it as just an opinion. To generalize from the specific of your N=1 experience is faulty logic.
You're right. I should have typed "It seems to me that" keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost... That's my interpretation of what I often (to usually) see in low carb forums.
Because this is a pros and cons thread of keto, my experiences with the diet, and my interactions with others who on on the diet may be seen as revalent, although statistics could be interesting too. I doubt there are any stats on benefits or cons to the diet - at leat not without hours of research.
I added the fact that I have IR, as at least a third to half of North Americans do, because I felt that might be relavent to why the diet works so well for me. For someone who is completely metabolically healthy, a ketogenic diet may not have nearly as many benefits. I do realize that keto =/= IR. I believe it tends to offer the most benefits to those people though.3 -
Pro: can help you control your epilepsy
Con: can be dangerous - pay close attention to your doctor & dietician
As far as I know, a ketogenic diet is not dangerous unless you have a problem with fat metabolism or possibly familial hypercholesterolemia. Sort of like me saying tree nuts and gluten are dangerous. They aren't really unless you have a tree nut allergy or celiac disease. Same goes for a very low carb diet.
Unless you are thinking of diabetic ketoacidosis? Thankfully that is not a risk unless one has T1D and a situation where insulin was very low so blood glucose AND ketones are very high - at the same time. Someone eating low carb will never experience that unless they are T1D and it is not well managed in an acute situation.
My doctor actually did recommemd low carb to me.
And my other doctor recommended less fat and higher carb. LOL 
4 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.
You know what? It's not even just the unsubstantiated claims. I realized this reading the discussion.
It's also the subtle, underlying premise: that's it's the way of eating that is responsible for everything experienced by keto eaters.
The simple fact is that losing weight is responsible for a large amount of what keto proponents attribute to keto itself and that the push back they receive is because they attribute it solely to their dietary choice.
Keto itself isn't responsible for a laundry list of health improvements that a lot of you folks claim it to be. Weight loss is. If more of you stopped with that ish, I think there'd be a lot less push back AND woo voting.
I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
As mmapags said, it takes a mere 10% reduction in weight to see benefits.
Additionally, many dieters experience relief of many symptoms simply by no longer OVEReating. The benefits have nothing to do with how they are eating, it has to do with eating less.
I believe that you have formed your view is the one that's opinion based, not mine.
Mine is an opinion, which is why I wrote "I think" instead of "a fact". It is based on my own experiences and what I have heard from other low carbers who are using the diet to address health issues on the Low Carber Daily boards.
But yes, it could be a 10% reduction in weight responsible for some benefits. No for others though. Within the first month of keto, during which I lost 10 lbs (over 5% reduction) and experienced better skin and hair, steadier energy, better BP, better BG control and no more reactive hypoglycemia, fewer headaches, and better cognitive abilities. For me, someone with IR, benefits came quickly.I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
You did state "I think" in regard to the previous posters statements being opinion but not in regard to the, as yet, unsubstantiated statement above. You stated unequivocally that Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight loss. You are saying that as a person with IR. Keto'er =/= IR. People do it for all reasons.
Again, if you have statistical data or studies that show your statement to be true, please do share. If not, fell free to identify it as just an opinion. To generalize from the specific of your N=1 experience is faulty logic.
You're right. I should have typed "It seems to me that" keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost... That's my interpretation of what I often (to usually) see in low carb forums.
Because this is a pros and cons thread of keto, my experiences with the diet, and my interactions with others who on on the diet may be seen as revalent, although statistics could be interesting too. I doubt there are any stats on benefits or cons to the diet - at leat not without hours of research.
I added the fact that I have IR, as at least a third to half of North Americans do, because I felt that might be relavent to why the diet works so well for me. For someone who is completely metabolically healthy, a ketogenic diet may not have nearly as many benefits. I do realize that keto =/= IR. I believe it tends to offer the most benefits to those people though.
Good post. Just a note that if you are in low carb forums, there is likely to be a skewed view and some confirmation bias going on. So, it helps to consider that if objectivity is to be valued.
I don't know the numbers on IR in North America. Do you have a source for this? I do understand that this is a growing concern of epidemic proportions and I totally support the use of low carb and/or keto to address this. I think I've mentioned more than once in this thread that is the best and most useful application of keto/low carb.4 -
Pro: can help you control your epilepsy
Con: can be dangerous - pay close attention to your doctor & dietician
As far as I know, a ketogenic diet is not dangerous unless you have a problem with fat metabolism or possibly familial hypercholesterolemia. Sort of like me saying tree nuts and gluten are dangerous. They aren't really unless you have a tree nut allergy or celiac disease. Same goes for a very low carb diet.
Unless you are thinking of diabetic ketoacidosis? Thankfully that is not a risk unless one has T1D and a situation where insulin was very low so blood glucose AND ketones are very high - at the same time. Someone eating low carb will never experience that unless they are T1D and it is not well managed in an acute situation.
My doctor actually did recommemd low carb to me. And my other doctor recommended less fat and higher carb. LOL
The only thing i can think of that would make keto dangerous is an inability to get adequate sodium from lavk of education. Similar to new plant based people who get protein deficiencies.1 -
emailmehere1122 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.
You know what? It's not even just the unsubstantiated claims. I realized this reading the discussion.
It's also the subtle, underlying premise: that's it's the way of eating that is responsible for everything experienced by keto eaters.
The simple fact is that losing weight is responsible for a large amount of what keto proponents attribute to keto itself and that the push back they receive is because they attribute it solely to their dietary choice.
Keto itself isn't responsible for a laundry list of health improvements that a lot of you folks claim it to be. Weight loss is. If more of you stopped with that ish, I think there'd be a lot less push back AND woo voting.
I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
As mmapags said, it takes a mere 10% reduction in weight to see benefits.
Additionally, many dieters experience relief of many symptoms simply by no longer OVEReating. The benefits have nothing to do with how they are eating, it has to do with eating less.
I believe that you have formed your view is the one that's opinion based, not mine.
Paragraph that starts with additionally.. I don't have to twist it you clearly state it has nothing to do with how they are eating it has to do with eating less.
I've already read the benefits of lowering calories but I've never seen or read anything stateing how someone is eating doesn't matter... other than your statement which I'm clearly not twisting.
ETA
This thread is about the pros and cons of keto....I am just pointing out people inadvertently say things and no one likes to be called out
So if anyone is brave enough to share their experiences with keto perhaps they will be allowed to do so without being harassed
I'd be more surprised if you could find a controlles weight loss study that didn't improve metabolic markers. Its literally why every diet can tout the benefits of the diet is improved metabolic health. Really, do you know any diet thay doesnt improve health?
Personally, i believe in getting benefits from a variety of diets...5 -
emailmehere1122 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.
You know what? It's not even just the unsubstantiated claims. I realized this reading the discussion.
It's also the subtle, underlying premise: that's it's the way of eating that is responsible for everything experienced by keto eaters.
The simple fact is that losing weight is responsible for a large amount of what keto proponents attribute to keto itself and that the push back they receive is because they attribute it solely to their dietary choice.
Keto itself isn't responsible for a laundry list of health improvements that a lot of you folks claim it to be. Weight loss is. If more of you stopped with that ish, I think there'd be a lot less push back AND woo voting.
I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
As mmapags said, it takes a mere 10% reduction in weight to see benefits.
Additionally, many dieters experience relief of many symptoms simply by no longer OVEReating. The benefits have nothing to do with how they are eating, it has to do with eating less.
I believe that you have formed your view is the one that's opinion based, not mine.
Paragraph that starts with additionally.. I don't have to twist it you clearly state it has nothing to do with how they are eating it has to do with eating less.
I've already read the benefits of lowering calories but I've never seen or read anything stateing how someone is eating doesn't matter... other than your statement which I'm clearly not twisting.
ETA
This thread is about the pros and cons of keto....I am just pointing out people inadvertently say things and no one likes to be called out
So if anyone is brave enough to share their experiences with keto perhaps they will be allowed to do so without being harassed
I'd be more surprised if you could find a controlles weight loss study that didn't improve metabolic markers. Its literally why every diet can tout the benefits of the diet is improved metabolic health. Really, do you know any diet thay doesnt improve health?
Personally, i believe in getting benefits from a variety of diets...
QFT!1 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.
You know what? It's not even just the unsubstantiated claims. I realized this reading the discussion.
It's also the subtle, underlying premise: that's it's the way of eating that is responsible for everything experienced by keto eaters.
The simple fact is that losing weight is responsible for a large amount of what keto proponents attribute to keto itself and that the push back they receive is because they attribute it solely to their dietary choice.
Keto itself isn't responsible for a laundry list of health improvements that a lot of you folks claim it to be. Weight loss is. If more of you stopped with that ish, I think there'd be a lot less push back AND woo voting.
I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
As mmapags said, it takes a mere 10% reduction in weight to see benefits.
Additionally, many dieters experience relief of many symptoms simply by no longer OVEReating. The benefits have nothing to do with how they are eating, it has to do with eating less.
I believe that you have formed your view is the one that's opinion based, not mine.
Mine is an opinion, which is why I wrote "I think" instead of "a fact". It is based on my own experiences and what I have heard from other low carbers who are using the diet to address health issues on the Low Carber Daily boards.
But yes, it could be a 10% reduction in weight responsible for some benefits. No for others though. Within the first month of keto, during which I lost 10 lbs (over 5% reduction) and experienced better skin and hair, steadier energy, better BP, better BG control and no more reactive hypoglycemia, fewer headaches, and better cognitive abilities. For me, someone with IR, benefits came quickly.I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
You did state "I think" in regard to the previous posters statements being opinion but not in regard to the, as yet, unsubstantiated statement above. You stated unequivocally that Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight loss. You are saying that as a person with IR. Keto'er =/= IR. People do it for all reasons.
Again, if you have statistical data or studies that show your statement to be true, please do share. If not, fell free to identify it as just an opinion. To generalize from the specific of your N=1 experience is faulty logic.
You're right. I should have typed "It seems to me that" keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost... That's my interpretation of what I often (to usually) see in low carb forums.
Because this is a pros and cons thread of keto, my experiences with the diet, and my interactions with others who on on the diet may be seen as revalent, although statistics could be interesting too. I doubt there are any stats on benefits or cons to the diet - at leat not without hours of research.
I added the fact that I have IR, as at least a third to half of North Americans do, because I felt that might be relavent to why the diet works so well for me. For someone who is completely metabolically healthy, a ketogenic diet may not have nearly as many benefits. I do realize that keto =/= IR. I believe it tends to offer the most benefits to those people though.
Good post. Just a note that if you are in low carb forums, there is likely to be a skewed view and some confirmation bias going on. So, it helps to consider that if objectivity is to be valued.
I don't know the numbers on IR in North America. Do you have a source for this? I do understand that this is a growing concern of epidemic proportions and I totally support the use of low carb and/or keto to address this. I think I've mentioned more than once in this thread that is the best and most useful application of keto/low carb.
I'm sure there is some bias in the low carb forums. Makes sense. Those posting in there are either new or it works for them so they stick to it. More pros there.
Then again, the same applies here. Most around here are not doing low carb and if they did they stopped because something was not working for them. It's sort of a bias going the other way.
I have looked up the numbers for IR a number of times over the years, but I have stopped bookmarking and posting them after too many arguments against old posters... although some of those people are not often around now. Anyways, looking at stats on IR to include T2D, prediabetes, NAFLD, PCOS, taking into account some cases of Alzheimer's (now sometmes called T3D), as well as the estimated numbers of these diseases that are undiagnosed, plus instances where insulin is very high (post mortem)... well, the numbers are over 1/3 and can be well over half depending on which sources you look at. This is especially true if you look at health of people when they die and not just at any given moment in time. At age 20 to 40, most will not have IR issues. By age 60, 70, or 80+, the majority of people do. It seems most will develop some sort of IR if something else doesn't kill you first. I know something has to kill us in the end, but it doesn't look like IR was the late in life killer in the past that it is now.2 -
Pro: can help you control your epilepsy
Con: can be dangerous - pay close attention to your doctor & dietician
As far as I know, a ketogenic diet is not dangerous unless you have a problem with fat metabolism or possibly familial hypercholesterolemia. Sort of like me saying tree nuts and gluten are dangerous. They aren't really unless you have a tree nut allergy or celiac disease. Same goes for a very low carb diet.
Unless you are thinking of diabetic ketoacidosis? Thankfully that is not a risk unless one has T1D and a situation where insulin was very low so blood glucose AND ketones are very high - at the same time. Someone eating low carb will never experience that unless they are T1D and it is not well managed in an acute situation.
My doctor actually did recommemd low carb to me. And my other doctor recommended less fat and higher carb. LOL
The only thing i can think of that would make keto dangerous is an inability to get adequate sodium from lavk of education. Similar to new plant based people who get protein deficiencies.
You've got a point. I have heard a handful of stories about people who actually ended up hospitalized due to eating low sodium after a large, fast drop in carb intake.
TBH, I think a good number of people who try keto and say they felt poorly may have been dealing with low sodium. Not all, or even most, but those who were not aware that you need the equivalent of 2+ teaspoons of about salt a day.2 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.
You know what? It's not even just the unsubstantiated claims. I realized this reading the discussion.
It's also the subtle, underlying premise: that's it's the way of eating that is responsible for everything experienced by keto eaters.
The simple fact is that losing weight is responsible for a large amount of what keto proponents attribute to keto itself and that the push back they receive is because they attribute it solely to their dietary choice.
Keto itself isn't responsible for a laundry list of health improvements that a lot of you folks claim it to be. Weight loss is. If more of you stopped with that ish, I think there'd be a lot less push back AND woo voting.
I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
As mmapags said, it takes a mere 10% reduction in weight to see benefits.
Additionally, many dieters experience relief of many symptoms simply by no longer OVEReating. The benefits have nothing to do with how they are eating, it has to do with eating less.
I believe that you have formed your view is the one that's opinion based, not mine.
Mine is an opinion, which is why I wrote "I think" instead of "a fact". It is based on my own experiences and what I have heard from other low carbers who are using the diet to address health issues on the Low Carber Daily boards.
But yes, it could be a 10% reduction in weight responsible for some benefits. No for others though. Within the first month of keto, during which I lost 10 lbs (over 5% reduction) and experienced better skin and hair, steadier energy, better BP, better BG control and no more reactive hypoglycemia, fewer headaches, and better cognitive abilities. For me, someone with IR, benefits came quickly.I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
You did state "I think" in regard to the previous posters statements being opinion but not in regard to the, as yet, unsubstantiated statement above. You stated unequivocally that Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight loss. You are saying that as a person with IR. Keto'er =/= IR. People do it for all reasons.
Again, if you have statistical data or studies that show your statement to be true, please do share. If not, fell free to identify it as just an opinion. To generalize from the specific of your N=1 experience is faulty logic.
You're right. I should have typed "It seems to me that" keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost... That's my interpretation of what I often (to usually) see in low carb forums.
Because this is a pros and cons thread of keto, my experiences with the diet, and my interactions with others who on on the diet may be seen as revalent, although statistics could be interesting too. I doubt there are any stats on benefits or cons to the diet - at leat not without hours of research.
I added the fact that I have IR, as at least a third to half of North Americans do, because I felt that might be relavent to why the diet works so well for me. For someone who is completely metabolically healthy, a ketogenic diet may not have nearly as many benefits. I do realize that keto =/= IR. I believe it tends to offer the most benefits to those people though.
Good post. Just a note that if you are in low carb forums, there is likely to be a skewed view and some confirmation bias going on. So, it helps to consider that if objectivity is to be valued.
I don't know the numbers on IR in North America. Do you have a source for this? I do understand that this is a growing concern of epidemic proportions and I totally support the use of low carb and/or keto to address this. I think I've mentioned more than once in this thread that is the best and most useful application of keto/low carb.
I'm sure there is some bias in the low carb forums. Makes sense. Those posting in there are either new or it works for them so they stick to it. More pros there.
Then again, the same applies here. Most around here are not doing low carb and if they did they stopped because something was not working for them. It's sort of a bias going the other way.
I have looked up the numbers for IR a number of times over the years, but I have stopped bookmarking and posting them after too many arguments against old posters... although some of those people are not often around now. Anyways, looking at stats on IR to include T2D, prediabetes, NAFLD, PCOS, taking into account some cases of Alzheimer's (now sometmes called T3D), as well as the estimated numbers of these diseases that are undiagnosed, plus instances where insulin is very high (post mortem)... well, the numbers are over 1/3 and can be well over half depending on which sources you look at. This is especially true if you look at health of people when they die and not just at any given moment in time. At age 20 to 40, most will not have IR issues. By age 60, 70, or 80+, the majority of people do. It seems most will develop some sort of IR if something else doesn't kill you first. I know something has to kill us in the end, but it doesn't look like IR was the late in life killer in the past that it is now.
To add, the arguments where on the prediabetes numbers, especially the undiagnosed.
There are about 8% of the US with confirmed prediabetes.... and about 30% or more undiagnosed. Considering the confirmed amount, id question their methods of data collection, assumptions or sampling. To have almost 4x the number of undiagnosed is ludicris.
Also, if you do a cross comparison of other countries with equivent obesity rates, the numbers are no where close which makes for an analogous comparisons to be different. Largely, that is driven by the standards we have in the US where our prediabetes numbers are much lower. Which i suspect we did that for greater precaution. And it probably helps justify budgetary justifications for Congress.4 -
Pro: can help you control your epilepsy
Con: can be dangerous - pay close attention to your doctor & dietician
As far as I know, a ketogenic diet is not dangerous unless you have a problem with fat metabolism or possibly familial hypercholesterolemia. Sort of like me saying tree nuts and gluten are dangerous. They aren't really unless you have a tree nut allergy or celiac disease. Same goes for a very low carb diet.
Unless you are thinking of diabetic ketoacidosis? Thankfully that is not a risk unless one has T1D and a situation where insulin was very low so blood glucose AND ketones are very high - at the same time. Someone eating low carb will never experience that unless they are T1D and it is not well managed in an acute situation.
My doctor actually did recommemd low carb to me. And my other doctor recommended less fat and higher carb. LOL
The only thing i can think of that would make keto dangerous is an inability to get adequate sodium from lavk of education. Similar to new plant based people who get protein deficiencies.
You've got a point. I have heard a handful of stories about people who actually ended up hospitalized due to eating low sodium after a large, fast drop in carb intake.
TBH, I think a good number of people who try keto and say they felt poorly may have been dealing with low sodium. Not all, or even most, but those who were not aware that you need the equivalent of 2+ teaspoons of about salt a day.
Id tend to agree. What i find to be a large issue with all diets is lack of education. Hell people thinka IIFYM is all about eating junk... and its not. Its about the ability to incorporate junk foods after addressing nutritional requirements.6 -
For me, eating some form of lower carb/higher fat/adequate protein (I've done it within the keto range and with a more moderate LCHF range) has had a lot of pros. (I admit I skipped pages 2-5 of this thread for time's sake; just sharing my pros and cons from my own personal experience.) Also, I never had the "keto breath" some people post about; not everyone gets it. Watching my electrolytes also prevented the keto flu.
I do have a history of prediabetes which I reversed on a low carb diet. I also have PCOS and my cycles got more regular when I started eating keto. I found it much easier to stick to than a moderate carb way of eating in terms of satiety, reduced cravings, etc. My reflux, joint pain and some other random issues really improved after I started eating this way, which I did not expect. My PCP, cardiologist and MS specialist all know how I eat and are supportive and my blood work and BMI are great. I'll keep doing it until it stops working but I fully understand that it's not for everyone and people need to experiment and just figure out what works best for them and their bodies. (And I realize not everyone has as many medical conditions to factor in as I do!)2 -
emailmehere1122 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.
You know what? It's not even just the unsubstantiated claims. I realized this reading the discussion.
It's also the subtle, underlying premise: that's it's the way of eating that is responsible for everything experienced by keto eaters.
The simple fact is that losing weight is responsible for a large amount of what keto proponents attribute to keto itself and that the push back they receive is because they attribute it solely to their dietary choice.
Keto itself isn't responsible for a laundry list of health improvements that a lot of you folks claim it to be. Weight loss is. If more of you stopped with that ish, I think there'd be a lot less push back AND woo voting.
I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
As mmapags said, it takes a mere 10% reduction in weight to see benefits.
Additionally, many dieters experience relief of many symptoms simply by no longer OVEReating. The benefits have nothing to do with how they are eating, it has to do with eating less.
I believe that you have formed your view is the one that's opinion based, not mine.
Paragraph that starts with additionally.. I don't have to twist it you clearly state it has nothing to do with how they are eating it has to do with eating less.
I've already read the benefits of lowering calories but I've never seen or read anything stateing how someone is eating doesn't matter... other than your statement which I'm clearly not twisting.
ETA
This thread is about the pros and cons of keto....I am just pointing out people inadvertently say things and no one likes to be called out
So if anyone is brave enough to share their experiences with keto perhaps they will be allowed to do so without being harassed
I'd be more surprised if you could find a controlles weight loss study that didn't improve metabolic markers. Its literally why every diet can tout the benefits of the diet is improved metabolic health. Really, do you know any diet thay doesnt improve health?
Personally, i believe in getting benefits from a variety of diets...
She said that you can get health benefits reguardless of the diet by eating less and loseing weight. I understand what she was saying but it's a false statement. If my diet only consisted of candy corn and soda even if I'm eating less I will most definitely would not reap any health benefits. I know she meant any balanced diet but I was being the straw man she accused me of being. The reason I choose to do that is because it seemed every time someone wanted to post a keto positive experience or benefits, if they left out the phrase in my opinion, or I think...ect they were being quoted and asked to provide a study to support their claim and wooed
Thankfully it seems this thread is getting back to what it was intended to be and hopefully it will contune that way
10 -
emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.
You know what? It's not even just the unsubstantiated claims. I realized this reading the discussion.
It's also the subtle, underlying premise: that's it's the way of eating that is responsible for everything experienced by keto eaters.
The simple fact is that losing weight is responsible for a large amount of what keto proponents attribute to keto itself and that the push back they receive is because they attribute it solely to their dietary choice.
Keto itself isn't responsible for a laundry list of health improvements that a lot of you folks claim it to be. Weight loss is. If more of you stopped with that ish, I think there'd be a lot less push back AND woo voting.
I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
As mmapags said, it takes a mere 10% reduction in weight to see benefits.
Additionally, many dieters experience relief of many symptoms simply by no longer OVEReating. The benefits have nothing to do with how they are eating, it has to do with eating less.
I believe that you have formed your view is the one that's opinion based, not mine.
Paragraph that starts with additionally.. I don't have to twist it you clearly state it has nothing to do with how they are eating it has to do with eating less.
I've already read the benefits of lowering calories but I've never seen or read anything stateing how someone is eating doesn't matter... other than your statement which I'm clearly not twisting.
ETA
This thread is about the pros and cons of keto....I am just pointing out people inadvertently say things and no one likes to be called out
So if anyone is brave enough to share their experiences with keto perhaps they will be allowed to do so without being harassed
I'd be more surprised if you could find a controlles weight loss study that didn't improve metabolic markers. Its literally why every diet can tout the benefits of the diet is improved metabolic health. Really, do you know any diet thay doesnt improve health?
Personally, i believe in getting benefits from a variety of diets...
She said that you can get health benefits reguardless of the diet by eating less and loseing weight. I understand what she was saying but it's a false statement. If my diet only consisted of candy corn and soda even if I'm eating less I will most definitely would not reap any health benefits. I know she meant any balanced diet but I was being the straw man she accused me of being. The reason I choose to do that is because it seemed every time someone wanted to post a keto positive experience or benefits, if they left out the phrase in my opinion, or I think...ect they were being quoted and asked to provide a study to support their claim and wooed
Thankfully it seems this thread is getting back to what it was intended to be and hopefully it will contune that way
Twinkie diet. Guy's health markers improved. So yes, you can get health benefits regardless simply by eating less (fewer calories) and losing weight.4 -
It the best for vegan members because we are already eating natural while foods. But I recommend low carbs and balance diet. Keto is a quick fix but I think diet is something that should be second nature. Not a pressure and a burden to meal prep.5
-
marblessed wrote: »It the best for vegan members because we are already eating natural while foods. But I recommend low carbs and balance diet. Keto is a quick fix but I think diet is something that should be second nature. Not a pressure and a burden to meal prep.
What would a vegan keto diet look like? Avocados for days and vegan protein shakes?3 -
A quick fix to what? For me nothing was particularly fast at all. Took me almost a full year to reach goal. Calories still apply its just where you choose to take them from to meet your daily goals.5
-
Nony_Mouse wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.
You know what? It's not even just the unsubstantiated claims. I realized this reading the discussion.
It's also the subtle, underlying premise: that's it's the way of eating that is responsible for everything experienced by keto eaters.
The simple fact is that losing weight is responsible for a large amount of what keto proponents attribute to keto itself and that the push back they receive is because they attribute it solely to their dietary choice.
Keto itself isn't responsible for a laundry list of health improvements that a lot of you folks claim it to be. Weight loss is. If more of you stopped with that ish, I think there'd be a lot less push back AND woo voting.
I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
As mmapags said, it takes a mere 10% reduction in weight to see benefits.
Additionally, many dieters experience relief of many symptoms simply by no longer OVEReating. The benefits have nothing to do with how they are eating, it has to do with eating less.
I believe that you have formed your view is the one that's opinion based, not mine.
Paragraph that starts with additionally.. I don't have to twist it you clearly state it has nothing to do with how they are eating it has to do with eating less.
I've already read the benefits of lowering calories but I've never seen or read anything stateing how someone is eating doesn't matter... other than your statement which I'm clearly not twisting.
ETA
This thread is about the pros and cons of keto....I am just pointing out people inadvertently say things and no one likes to be called out
So if anyone is brave enough to share their experiences with keto perhaps they will be allowed to do so without being harassed
I'd be more surprised if you could find a controlles weight loss study that didn't improve metabolic markers. Its literally why every diet can tout the benefits of the diet is improved metabolic health. Really, do you know any diet thay doesnt improve health?
Personally, i believe in getting benefits from a variety of diets...
She said that you can get health benefits reguardless of the diet by eating less and loseing weight. I understand what she was saying but it's a false statement. If my diet only consisted of candy corn and soda even if I'm eating less I will most definitely would not reap any health benefits. I know she meant any balanced diet but I was being the straw man she accused me of being. The reason I choose to do that is because it seemed every time someone wanted to post a keto positive experience or benefits, if they left out the phrase in my opinion, or I think...ect they were being quoted and asked to provide a study to support their claim and wooed
Thankfully it seems this thread is getting back to what it was intended to be and hopefully it will contune that way
Twinkie diet. Guy's health markers improved. So yes, you can get health benefits regardless simply by eating less (fewer calories) and losing weight.
Of course no one is recommending anyone eat nothing but twinkies. Only pointing out the mechanism...3 -
Here are the things that matter to me when it comes to diet: is it satiating? Is it enjoyable? Is it flexible? Is it sustainable? Is there a good selection of delicious foods?
My answer is no to all of the above for keto, so for my purposes keto is all cons and no pros. Even the holy grail of all diets designed by the gods to allow you to live forever is no good unless you are able sustain it - and keto is not inherently better or worse than any other diet.6 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.
You know what? It's not even just the unsubstantiated claims. I realized this reading the discussion.
It's also the subtle, underlying premise: that's it's the way of eating that is responsible for everything experienced by keto eaters.
The simple fact is that losing weight is responsible for a large amount of what keto proponents attribute to keto itself and that the push back they receive is because they attribute it solely to their dietary choice.
Keto itself isn't responsible for a laundry list of health improvements that a lot of you folks claim it to be. Weight loss is. If more of you stopped with that ish, I think there'd be a lot less push back AND woo voting.
I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
As mmapags said, it takes a mere 10% reduction in weight to see benefits.
Additionally, many dieters experience relief of many symptoms simply by no longer OVEReating. The benefits have nothing to do with how they are eating, it has to do with eating less.
I believe that you have formed your view is the one that's opinion based, not mine.
Paragraph that starts with additionally.. I don't have to twist it you clearly state it has nothing to do with how they are eating it has to do with eating less.
I've already read the benefits of lowering calories but I've never seen or read anything stateing how someone is eating doesn't matter... other than your statement which I'm clearly not twisting.
ETA
This thread is about the pros and cons of keto....I am just pointing out people inadvertently say things and no one likes to be called out
So if anyone is brave enough to share their experiences with keto perhaps they will be allowed to do so without being harassed
I'd be more surprised if you could find a controlles weight loss study that didn't improve metabolic markers. Its literally why every diet can tout the benefits of the diet is improved metabolic health. Really, do you know any diet thay doesnt improve health?
Personally, i believe in getting benefits from a variety of diets...
She said that you can get health benefits reguardless of the diet by eating less and loseing weight. I understand what she was saying but it's a false statement. If my diet only consisted of candy corn and soda even if I'm eating less I will most definitely would not reap any health benefits. I know she meant any balanced diet but I was being the straw man she accused me of being. The reason I choose to do that is because it seemed every time someone wanted to post a keto positive experience or benefits, if they left out the phrase in my opinion, or I think...ect they were being quoted and asked to provide a study to support their claim and wooed
Thankfully it seems this thread is getting back to what it was intended to be and hopefully it will contune that way
Twinkie diet. Guy's health markers improved. So yes, you can get health benefits regardless simply by eating less (fewer calories) and losing weight.
So, this has been mentioned a couple of times now. Maybe instead of setting up strawman arguments, one might put google to work. From an article on the Twinkie Diet:Haubs goal, to prove that calories count, was achieved: he lost 27 pounds in two months by eating only 1,800 calories per day, which is about 800 calories less than a man of his pre-dieting size would need in order to maintain his previous weight.
In the end: he simply consumed fewer calories than he burned (by 800 calories), and he successfully lost weight.
His body weight in pounds went from 207 down to 174.
His body mass index went from 28.8 (overweight) down to 24.9 (normal).
His LDL (bad) cholesterol dropped by 20 percent
His HDL (good) cholesterol increased by 20 percent
His triglycerides (a form of body fat) dropped by 39 percent
His body fat dropped from 33.4 to 24.9 percent
Full text of the article: https://www.diabetesdaily.com/blog/oh-dear-the-twinkie-diet-actually-works-268743/
Spoiler alert: He didn't just eat Twinkies, he also ate Doritos, Sugary Cereals a Protein Shake per day, a Multi Vitamin and a little veggies. Kind of like a version of the worst of the S.A.D.6 -
stevencloser wrote: »marblessed wrote: »It the best for vegan members because we are already eating natural while foods. But I recommend low carbs and balance diet. Keto is a quick fix but I think diet is something that should be second nature. Not a pressure and a burden to meal prep.
What would a vegan keto diet look like? Avocados for days and vegan protein shakes?
It is definitely more challenging. I suppose that could be seen as a keto con. Vegetarian keto is much easier when you can add in eggs and dairy.
Some vegan keto examples and food ideas:
http://ketomotive.com/vegan-ketogenic-diet/1 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.
You know what? It's not even just the unsubstantiated claims. I realized this reading the discussion.
It's also the subtle, underlying premise: that's it's the way of eating that is responsible for everything experienced by keto eaters.
The simple fact is that losing weight is responsible for a large amount of what keto proponents attribute to keto itself and that the push back they receive is because they attribute it solely to their dietary choice.
Keto itself isn't responsible for a laundry list of health improvements that a lot of you folks claim it to be. Weight loss is. If more of you stopped with that ish, I think there'd be a lot less push back AND woo voting.
I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
As mmapags said, it takes a mere 10% reduction in weight to see benefits.
Additionally, many dieters experience relief of many symptoms simply by no longer OVEReating. The benefits have nothing to do with how they are eating, it has to do with eating less.
I believe that you have formed your view is the one that's opinion based, not mine.
Paragraph that starts with additionally.. I don't have to twist it you clearly state it has nothing to do with how they are eating it has to do with eating less.
I've already read the benefits of lowering calories but I've never seen or read anything stateing how someone is eating doesn't matter... other than your statement which I'm clearly not twisting.
ETA
This thread is about the pros and cons of keto....I am just pointing out people inadvertently say things and no one likes to be called out
So if anyone is brave enough to share their experiences with keto perhaps they will be allowed to do so without being harassed
I'd be more surprised if you could find a controlles weight loss study that didn't improve metabolic markers. Its literally why every diet can tout the benefits of the diet is improved metabolic health. Really, do you know any diet thay doesnt improve health?
Personally, i believe in getting benefits from a variety of diets...
She said that you can get health benefits reguardless of the diet by eating less and loseing weight. I understand what she was saying but it's a false statement. If my diet only consisted of candy corn and soda even if I'm eating less I will most definitely would not reap any health benefits. I know she meant any balanced diet but I was being the straw man she accused me of being. The reason I choose to do that is because it seemed every time someone wanted to post a keto positive experience or benefits, if they left out the phrase in my opinion, or I think...ect they were being quoted and asked to provide a study to support their claim and wooed
Thankfully it seems this thread is getting back to what it was intended to be and hopefully it will contune that way
Twinkie diet. Guy's health markers improved. So yes, you can get health benefits regardless simply by eating less (fewer calories) and losing weight.
So, this has been mentioned a couple of times now. Maybe instead of setting up strawman arguments, one might put google to work. From an article on the Twinkie Diet:Haubs goal, to prove that calories count, was achieved: he lost 27 pounds in two months by eating only 1,800 calories per day, which is about 800 calories less than a man of his pre-dieting size would need in order to maintain his previous weight.
In the end: he simply consumed fewer calories than he burned (by 800 calories), and he successfully lost weight.
His body weight in pounds went from 207 down to 174.
His body mass index went from 28.8 (overweight) down to 24.9 (normal).
His LDL (bad) cholesterol dropped by 20 percent
His HDL (good) cholesterol increased by 20 percent
His triglycerides (a form of body fat) dropped by 39 percent
His body fat dropped from 33.4 to 24.9 percent
Full text of the article: https://www.diabetesdaily.com/blog/oh-dear-the-twinkie-diet-actually-works-268743/
Spoiler alert: He didn't just eat Twinkies, he also ate Doritos, Sugary Cereals a Protein Shake per day, a Multi Vitamin and a little veggies. Kind of like a version of the worst of the S.A.D.
So he lost weight via a reasonable caloric deficit, went from overweight to a normal/healthy weight, and as a result saw a very significant improvement in his health markers.
I'm shocked. SHOCKED, I tell you!12 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.
You know what? It's not even just the unsubstantiated claims. I realized this reading the discussion.
It's also the subtle, underlying premise: that's it's the way of eating that is responsible for everything experienced by keto eaters.
The simple fact is that losing weight is responsible for a large amount of what keto proponents attribute to keto itself and that the push back they receive is because they attribute it solely to their dietary choice.
Keto itself isn't responsible for a laundry list of health improvements that a lot of you folks claim it to be. Weight loss is. If more of you stopped with that ish, I think there'd be a lot less push back AND woo voting.
I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
As mmapags said, it takes a mere 10% reduction in weight to see benefits.
Additionally, many dieters experience relief of many symptoms simply by no longer OVEReating. The benefits have nothing to do with how they are eating, it has to do with eating less.
I believe that you have formed your view is the one that's opinion based, not mine.
Paragraph that starts with additionally.. I don't have to twist it you clearly state it has nothing to do with how they are eating it has to do with eating less.
I've already read the benefits of lowering calories but I've never seen or read anything stateing how someone is eating doesn't matter... other than your statement which I'm clearly not twisting.
ETA
This thread is about the pros and cons of keto....I am just pointing out people inadvertently say things and no one likes to be called out
So if anyone is brave enough to share their experiences with keto perhaps they will be allowed to do so without being harassed
I'd be more surprised if you could find a controlles weight loss study that didn't improve metabolic markers. Its literally why every diet can tout the benefits of the diet is improved metabolic health. Really, do you know any diet thay doesnt improve health?
Personally, i believe in getting benefits from a variety of diets...
She said that you can get health benefits reguardless of the diet by eating less and loseing weight. I understand what she was saying but it's a false statement. If my diet only consisted of candy corn and soda even if I'm eating less I will most definitely would not reap any health benefits. I know she meant any balanced diet but I was being the straw man she accused me of being. The reason I choose to do that is because it seemed every time someone wanted to post a keto positive experience or benefits, if they left out the phrase in my opinion, or I think...ect they were being quoted and asked to provide a study to support their claim and wooed
Thankfully it seems this thread is getting back to what it was intended to be and hopefully it will contune that way
Twinkie diet. Guy's health markers improved. So yes, you can get health benefits regardless simply by eating less (fewer calories) and losing weight.
So, this has been mentioned a couple of times now. Maybe instead of setting up strawman arguments, one might put google to work. From an article on the Twinkie Diet:Haubs goal, to prove that calories count, was achieved: he lost 27 pounds in two months by eating only 1,800 calories per day, which is about 800 calories less than a man of his pre-dieting size would need in order to maintain his previous weight.
In the end: he simply consumed fewer calories than he burned (by 800 calories), and he successfully lost weight.
His body weight in pounds went from 207 down to 174.
His body mass index went from 28.8 (overweight) down to 24.9 (normal).
His LDL (bad) cholesterol dropped by 20 percent
His HDL (good) cholesterol increased by 20 percent
His triglycerides (a form of body fat) dropped by 39 percent
His body fat dropped from 33.4 to 24.9 percent
Full text of the article: https://www.diabetesdaily.com/blog/oh-dear-the-twinkie-diet-actually-works-268743/
Spoiler alert: He didn't just eat Twinkies, he also ate Doritos, Sugary Cereals a Protein Shake per day, a Multi Vitamin and a little veggies. Kind of like a version of the worst of the S.A.D.
So he lost weight via a reasonable caloric deficit, went from overweight to a normal/healthy weight, and as a result saw a very significant improvement in his health markers.
I'm shocked. SHOCKED, I tell you!
2 -
Excessively high protein intake (esp. as animal protein vs. vegan) combined with incredibly low carb intake for the long term WILL destroy kidney function. Short term though is not super unhealthy.8
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circularsmiles wrote: »Excessively high protein intake (esp. as animal protein vs. vegan) combined with incredibly low carb intake for the long term WILL destroy kidney function. Short term though is not super unhealthy.circularsmiles wrote: »Excessively high protein intake (esp. as animal protein vs. vegan) combined with incredibly low carb intake for the long term WILL destroy kidney function. Short term though is not super unhealthy.
Do you have a proof source in the way of a study for this? And what do you consider excessively high protein?4 -
circularsmiles wrote: »Excessively high protein intake (esp. as animal protein vs. vegan) combined with incredibly low carb intake for the long term WILL destroy kidney function. Short term though is not super unhealthy.
Are you a vegan @circularsmiles ?2 -
circularsmiles wrote: »Excessively high protein intake (esp. as animal protein vs. vegan) combined with incredibly low carb intake for the long term WILL destroy kidney function. Short term though is not super unhealthy.
A ketogenic diet is usually not high protein. I would say 15-30% is the norm with most people eating between 20-25%. Some will go to the higher end during weight loss to help better preserve muscle mass. Same goes for low carb.
But I disagree that high protein intake will destroy kidney function. High protein intake may be a bit hard on the kidneys if your kidneys are already failing, but that's about it.
5 -
circularsmiles wrote: »Excessively high protein intake (esp. as animal protein vs. vegan) combined with incredibly low carb intake for the long term WILL destroy kidney function. Short term though is not super unhealthy.
A ketogenic diet is usually not high protein. I would say 15-30% is the norm with most people eating between 20-25%. Some will go to the higher end during weight loss to help better preserve muscle mass. Same goes for low carb.
This is true. I personally recommend a protein level that is pretty much the same as what I'd use for weight loss for low carbing, but in the absence of that some of the keto calculators are even lower. None of this is particularly high protein, IMO.
Keto is high fat, not high protein, normally.4 -
circularsmiles wrote: »Excessively high protein intake (esp. as animal protein vs. vegan) combined with incredibly low carb intake for the long term WILL destroy kidney function. Short term though is not super unhealthy.
A ketogenic diet is usually not high protein. I would say 15-30% is the norm with most people eating between 20-25%. Some will go to the higher end during weight loss to help better preserve muscle mass. Same goes for low carb.
But I disagree that high protein intake will destroy kidney function. High protein intake may be a bit hard on the kidneys if your kidneys are already failing, but that's about it.
Agreed. Additionally, I'd like to know what the previous poster considers to be "high protein".
Furthermore, I'd like to turn the tables on her and point out the dangers of having too low a protein intake (not a danger for most people ketoing at all) when dieting and for people who are aging and stress the importance of preserving muscle mass.2 -
Pro: Can help you lose weight quickly, cures T2 diabetes if you stick with it, can resolve thyroid and PCOS issues. Can also be helpful if you have cancer as it tends to starve cancer cells from glucose.
Cons: Very restrictive and NOT for T1 diabetics, dangerous for them.
It can be a lifestyle/diet, or it can be used as a tool for a week or two to shed lbs after a vacation. Many tools in the toolbox.14
This discussion has been closed.
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