Pros and cons of a Keto Diet
Replies
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True there are flavours of the month/year. I get that. It just sometimes feels to me, and this is just my perception, that these diets do get attacked because they are named diets that have been, or are, popular. It does not necessarily make the health benefits that some experience on these diets (not just keto) wrong.
Some diets can help some people's health. Keto can be very good for those with IR, NAFLD, PCOS, epilepsy, some brain cancers or along with some therapies like chemo, some possible help with Alzheimer's disease (there -I came along and said it
), and for some with CAD, IBS or other ailments. Other diets (seems to usually be whole foods based) can help with some of these same problems or other issues. Specific diets can also help with weight loss if they help with satiety, stabilized BG, better energy, better portion control, more balanced hormones, or for other reasons.
For those who finally find a diet that is improving their health, or making weight loss possible after years of struggle, a specific diet can feel like a miracle cure to that person. Sure, it won't work for everyone, just like all drugs do not work for everyone, but we often see people being told that their experience is wrong, or that they are wrong, simply because instead of saying "some people can be helped" they said "it will help". All that is needed there is a gentle correction that it may not work for all. Instead it can feel like an attack on someone who is new and just wanting to share their excitement.
It's almost like a kid showing off his new toy car and getting the response of "Meh. I don't like cars. It's not great" from those who are older and more experienced. A response of "I'm glad you like it," might fit better, and without the disclaimer of "but I don't like it." KWIM?
Of course on this thread, the OP asked for personal pros and cons. Giving your own experiences, both pros and cons was asked for. An "I didn't like it," fits perfectly in this thread. But saying someone's pro or con is wrong is a bit presumptuous - on both sides.
This is just my perception and opinion though. No one else's.
Ironically, all those perceptions I share with all the keto-zealots and why i regularly correct people in keto threads. Personally, whatever diet a person finds sustainable is great. Heck, I have trained people from keto to vegan. I will never tell people to not follow a diet.
I will note, in my mod experience, no thread is worse than one from an overzealous new vegan (generally a teen) who thinks that we are all murdering animals, drinking animal puss, etc.. Because even experienced and educated vegans will battle against them.
Animal puss? mmm. LOL
I can see vegan converts being enthusiastic since veganism is almost as much a philosophy and way of life as it is a way of eating. Makes sense... Makes me curious to check out more vegan threads too.
The animal puss thing usually in the "is dairy healthy for you" threads..... almost every single time.4 -
lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
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emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.6 -
emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
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emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.12 -
Oh, also "associated" means something else in a scientific context. And in the very next sentences after the one psu bolded she said glutenfree is more healthy than the same recipe with gluten, so there's that.8
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stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
If they spout bull then so be it...he was claiming she said something she clearly didn't say
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stevencloser wrote: »Oh, also "associated" means something else in a scientific context. And in the very next sentences after the one psu bolded she said glutenfree is more healthy than the same recipe with gluten, so there's that.
Can you prove it isn't healthier?
My guess is that's her opinion but I don't know that for a fact.
So there's nothing....again
11 -
emailmehere1122 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Oh, also "associated" means something else in a scientific context. And in the very next sentences after the one psu bolded she said glutenfree is more healthy than the same recipe with gluten, so there's that.
Can you prove it isn't healthier?
My guess is that's her opinion but I don't know that for a fact.
So there's nothing....again
Prove there isn't a teapot revolving around mars.
That's not how discussions work.9 -
stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Oh, also "associated" means something else in a scientific context. And in the very next sentences after the one psu bolded she said glutenfree is more healthy than the same recipe with gluten, so there's that.
Can you prove it isn't healthier?
My guess is that's her opinion but I don't know that for a fact.
So there's nothing....again
Prove there isn't a teapot revolving around mars.
That's not how discussions work.
You inferred that the statement wasn't true so I'm guessing that's your opinion... just because it's your opinion, her opinion, or even my opinion doesn't make it a fact
I feel we are pulling this thread off topic. So if you would like to provide a link showing the scientific meaning of the word associate and if she comes back and states thats the context in which she was speaking I will gladly admit I was mistaken and apologize. Otherwise I'm no longer going to pull this thread off topic.
Have a blessed day.9 -
It is on the person making the claim to prove that it "is". It is never on the person to prove a negative, or to prove that it "ins't..."7
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stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.6 -
Before I get a bunch of die hard echo's of how wrong this is...take it for the light hearted way it is meant.
Over breakfast this morning I asked our teenager his opinion on dietary plans that count carbs vs calories. He is a non athlete, tested/considered intelligently gifted and currently in a health class. He is slim and has never struggled with a weight issue.
He told me that one of his friends was counting both carbs and calories and doing really well. He only ate two big macs when they went out Monday night and just half the pizza instead of the whole thing last night.
There you go...a plan that can do both!6 -
lisawolfinger wrote: »Before I get a bunch of die hard echo's of how wrong this is...take it for the light hearted way it is meant.
Over breakfast this morning I asked our teenager his opinion on dietary plans that count carbs vs calories. He is a non athlete, tested/considered intelligently gifted and currently in a health class. He is slim and has never struggled with a weight issue.
He told me that one of his friends was counting both carbs and calories and doing really well. He only ate two big macs when they went out Monday night and just half the pizza instead of the whole thing last night.
There you go...a plan that can do both!
Ah to be a teenager again...5 -
emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
I certainly did not miss the point. I called out a claim that is frequency spouted within the keto community (since inflammation is a buzzword now). Gluten is not even associated with inflammation except with an autoimmune disease (celiac)... similar to those with nuts, shellfish, lactose, etc... issues.
A handful of people's special requirements, does not mean it applies to the greater population. So no, gluten is not associated with chronic inflammation; if it was, almost the entire population of America would be in trouble. If you look at the science on non-celiac gluten sensitivities, there currently isn't even evidence to support that.
Don't get me wrong, I see value in keto; as I mentioned, I work with people who follow the protocols and have seen the benefits of it. But that amount of claims that aren't substantiated are a bit much sometimes.
Side note, inflammation is not a bad thing... chronic inflammation is. Lifting, fiber, and many other things cause an inflammatory response. Does it make it bad? No. It means your body responds to a stimulus, as designed.8 -
lisawolfinger wrote: »Before I get a bunch of die hard echo's of how wrong this is...take it for the light hearted way it is meant.
Over breakfast this morning I asked our teenager his opinion on dietary plans that count carbs vs calories. He is a non athlete, tested/considered intelligently gifted and currently in a health class. He is slim and has never struggled with a weight issue.
He told me that one of his friends was counting both carbs and calories and doing really well. He only ate two big macs when they went out Monday night and just half the pizza instead of the whole thing last night.
There you go...a plan that can do both!
Ah to be a teenager again...
Right. When I was a teen, I was able to down a large pizza or 3 big mac's in a sitting. Never gained weight and had perfect health. But I also played ice hockey and soccer.1 -
lisawolfinger wrote: »Before I get a bunch of die hard echo's of how wrong this is...take it for the light hearted way it is meant.
Over breakfast this morning I asked our teenager his opinion on dietary plans that count carbs vs calories. He is a non athlete, tested/considered intelligently gifted and currently in a health class. He is slim and has never struggled with a weight issue.
He told me that one of his friends was counting both carbs and calories and doing really well. He only ate two big macs when they went out Monday night and just half the pizza instead of the whole thing last night.
There you go...a plan that can do both!
Ah to be a teenager again...
Right. When I was a teen, I was able to down a large pizza or 3 big mac's in a sitting. Never gained weight and had perfect health. But I also played ice hockey and soccer.
Mine was Taco Bell. I had some epic stints there...1 -
Has anyone tried the Keto Diet? What are your pros and cons on this diet?
I trialed keto during my 3rd year of maintenance for reason other than weight (neurological movement disorder).
Pros: I definitely experienced the reduced hunger and reduced cravings others mention while eating keto.
Cons: Because it did not work (long term) for the purpose intended (neurological disorder), after 52 weeks I decided the protocol was more restrictive than I was interested in following.
I currently eat LCHF (compared to SAD) and still experience the benefits of reduced hunger and reduced cravings. Current carb macro is 15% of calories so ~57 total/day per mfp. I really don't sweat it if I go over a little. I eat a lot of vegetables. My diary often looks much like the example posted above by @AlabasterVerve. I manage the "restriction factor" as I perceive it (it is a PERSONAL thing) by eating very low carb when at home but being more flexible in my choices when eating away from home. Most recent example: when at home, I eat only the toppings off a pizza. A few friends and I attended a concert a few weeks ago and met before hand at the home of one of the attendees. She provided a quick dinner of salad and pizza. I chose salad and a small piece of pizza, ate all of it including the crust, smiled and said, "It was good. Thank you for providing dinner". It works for me. I strive to not make my WoE important to others because I have no real medical reason for following it. I understand this is not the case for some.
ETA: So there is no confusion, I do consider obesity a medical issue so am not judging those or follow a keto diet only for weight loss. I'm in maintenance so my "motivation and ideal" may be a bit different than others in weight loss AND in maintenance for that matter.5 -
Now that I have attempted to lighten the air with my teenagers thoughts, I would like to respond to what seems to be a negative turn of events.
My response to the keto question was based on my experiences and I don't presume to be an expert on anyone but my own personal situation. My real point was that many keto recipes are also Gluten free...for those who subscribe to that need or belief. I was not trying to start a new thread or preach on the topic of what that means. As many people disagree about Gluten as disagree about carbs vs calories. My intent was never to derail this thread with 3 or 4 words that ticked someone off. If you want to discuss gluten, start your own thread on it.
None of you have asked my medical related needs or history that lead me to Keto...nor my professional education...though there seems to be several of you who like to brag on your own. It seems like a lot of assumptions were made. Just as a wife or husband or child may have medical concerns and illness that speak to a different path, you don't know my path or struggle or needs. I don't believe I ever told/suggested or demanded that my way of life was the only way of life for everyone, just that it had been great for me...expressing some of my experiences. I am a champion of every single person doing their own research and making decisions based on their unique needs. I consult with my doctors and encourage everyone to do the same.
If you cant participate in a thread on any topic where you recognize that everyone has unique needs, experiences and thought process, may you should think twice about responding...again, just expressing my experience, not demanding you do anything...
FITNESS includes Mind, Body, Soul. I don't have to prove why I do what I do...it is my struggle, not yours, but I do have the right to express what has been positive in my struggle.
How bout we all keep it a bit less vicious.11 -
Pros: ...
Cons: Donuts5 -
stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.
You know what? It's not even just the unsubstantiated claims. I realized this reading the discussion.
It's also the subtle, underlying premise: that's it's the way of eating that is responsible for everything experienced by keto eaters.
The simple fact is that losing weight is responsible for a large amount of what keto proponents attribute to keto itself and that the push back they receive is because they attribute it solely to their dietary choice.
Keto itself isn't responsible for a laundry list of health improvements that a lot of you folks claim it to be. Weight loss is. If more of you stopped with that ish, I think there'd be a lot less push back AND woo voting.9 -
I guess what I don't understand is, if you aren't about keto or low carb, why keep coming to the thread to evangelize against it? Just pass by the thread.7
-
BodyByButter wrote: »I guess what I don't understand is, if you aren't about keto or low carb, why keep coming to the thread to evangelize against it? Just pass by the thread.
It's a pros and cons thread. People can share opinions.
I personally low carbed for 10 years. I have opinions about sustainability.6 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »BodyByButter wrote: »I guess what I don't understand is, if you aren't about keto or low carb, why keep coming to the thread to evangelize against it? Just pass by the thread.
It's a pros and cons thread. People can share opinions.
I personally low carbed for 10 years. I have opinions about sustainability.
That's fair.1 -
BodyByButter wrote: »I guess what I don't understand is, if you aren't about keto or low carb, why keep coming to the thread to evangelize against it? Just pass by the thread.
I think the point is that people usually aren't "evangelizing" against keto or low carbohydrate diets themselves but against inflated or inaccurate claims made to promote these diets.
It happens on all types of threads, not just keto or low carbohydrate ones. If I started a thread about how veganism was the only way to be healthy or how everyone needed to be on a low fat diet to prevent heart disease or how meal replacement shakes were the best way for everyone to lose weight, I'd get pushback.
Not because people are opposed to others being vegan or low fat or use meal replacement shakes, but because those claims aren't accurate.11 -
Didn't read through it all but here's my background and take...
I've been on Keto for 5 months, and it's helped me lose 25 pounds. I was off Keto for a month and didn't "gain it all back" like people always like to say when discussing a low carb diet. I kept my calories at 1700 a day, didn't monitor carbs but tried to be conscious of it, and I gained 2 pounds back, which I lose immediately after going back into Ketosis.
Cons first because I'm negative like this:
1. your breath smells like you just dumpster dived and ate the contents of a 3 day old diaper. When I first get into ketosis, I have to chew gum before bed so I dont gross out my SO.
2. You can't have certain things, but these things you crave aren't good for you either.
3. Sometimes it sucks explaining to people you lifestyle choice.
Pros
1. Energy is so much better
2. I'm not bloated, not even around my MC.
3. It helps me with my binge eating issues
4. I have my ED under control
5. I've lost weight
For me the pros definitely outweigh the cons but its because its what works for my body.7 -
lisawolfinger wrote: »Now that I have attempted to lighten the air with my teenagers thoughts, I would like to respond to what seems to be a negative turn of events.
My response to the keto question was based on my experiences and I don't presume to be an expert on anyone but my own personal situation. My real point was that many keto recipes are also Gluten free...for those who subscribe to that need or belief. I was not trying to start a new thread or preach on the topic of what that means. As many people disagree about Gluten as disagree about carbs vs calories. My intent was never to derail this thread with 3 or 4 words that ticked someone off. If you want to discuss gluten, start your own thread on it.
None of you have asked my medical related needs or history that lead me to Keto...nor my professional education...though there seems to be several of you who like to brag on your own. It seems like a lot of assumptions were made. Just as a wife or husband or child may have medical concerns and illness that speak to a different path, you don't know my path or struggle or needs. I don't believe I ever told/suggested or demanded that my way of life was the only way of life for everyone, just that it had been great for me...expressing some of my experiences. I am a champion of every single person doing their own research and making decisions based on their unique needs. I consult with my doctors and encourage everyone to do the same.
If you cant participate in a thread on any topic where you recognize that everyone has unique needs, experiences and thought process, may you should think twice about responding...again, just expressing my experience, not demanding you do anything...
FITNESS includes Mind, Body, Soul. I don't have to prove why I do what I do...it is my struggle, not yours, but I do have the right to express what has been positive in my struggle.
How bout we all keep it a bit less vicious.
Believe it or not. No one is questioning why you are doing keto. We all recognize that people have a variety of reasons for that. And I wasn't trying to be vicious. I was pointing out a piece of incorrect information. If someone believes they have inflammation issues, it should be 1. validated by bloodwork, and 2. devise a plan with their specialist.5 -
lisawolfinger wrote: »Before I get a bunch of die hard echo's of how wrong this is...take it for the light hearted way it is meant.
Over breakfast this morning I asked our teenager his opinion on dietary plans that count carbs vs calories. He is a non athlete, tested/considered intelligently gifted and currently in a health class. He is slim and has never struggled with a weight issue.
He told me that one of his friends was counting both carbs and calories and doing really well. He only ate two big macs when they went out Monday night and just half the pizza instead of the whole thing last night.
There you go...a plan that can do both!
Ah to be a teenager again...
Right. When I was a teen, I was able to down a large pizza or 3 big mac's in a sitting. Never gained weight and had perfect health. But I also played ice hockey and soccer.
Pfft, I can down a whole large pizza*, having had normal breakfast and lunch, and still be at a deficit. You guys aren't trying hard enough
*admittedly the bases on the pizza I get are really thin, and they're only ~1240 cals...1 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »Before I get a bunch of die hard echo's of how wrong this is...take it for the light hearted way it is meant.
Over breakfast this morning I asked our teenager his opinion on dietary plans that count carbs vs calories. He is a non athlete, tested/considered intelligently gifted and currently in a health class. He is slim and has never struggled with a weight issue.
He told me that one of his friends was counting both carbs and calories and doing really well. He only ate two big macs when they went out Monday night and just half the pizza instead of the whole thing last night.
There you go...a plan that can do both!
Ah to be a teenager again...
Right. When I was a teen, I was able to down a large pizza or 3 big mac's in a sitting. Never gained weight and had perfect health. But I also played ice hockey and soccer.
Pfft, I can down a whole large pizza*, having had normal breakfast and lunch, and still be at a deficit. You guys aren't trying hard enough
*admittedly the bases on the pizza I get are really thin, and they're only ~1240 cals...
Thin pizza is not how I roll. To me that is like cardboard with a little bit of sauce and cheese..0 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »Before I get a bunch of die hard echo's of how wrong this is...take it for the light hearted way it is meant.
Over breakfast this morning I asked our teenager his opinion on dietary plans that count carbs vs calories. He is a non athlete, tested/considered intelligently gifted and currently in a health class. He is slim and has never struggled with a weight issue.
He told me that one of his friends was counting both carbs and calories and doing really well. He only ate two big macs when they went out Monday night and just half the pizza instead of the whole thing last night.
There you go...a plan that can do both!
Ah to be a teenager again...
Right. When I was a teen, I was able to down a large pizza or 3 big mac's in a sitting. Never gained weight and had perfect health. But I also played ice hockey and soccer.
Pfft, I can down a whole large pizza*, having had normal breakfast and lunch, and still be at a deficit. You guys aren't trying hard enough
*admittedly the bases on the pizza I get are really thin, and they're only ~1240 cals...
Thin pizza is not how I roll. To me that is like cardboard with a little bit of sauce and cheese..
Oh this is definitely not like cardboard! It's actually a sprouted seed base (wheat is one of my eczema triggers). One of the handy side effects of not being able to eat the standard base is that it's soooo much easier to fit into my cals
And delicious. Kind of like having your pizza on a giant Meal Mate cracker (I have no idea of the US equivalent, but think sesame), without it being hard like a cracker. 0
This discussion has been closed.
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