Pros and cons of a Keto Diet
Options
Replies
-
AlabasterVerve wrote: »GlassAngyl wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »GlassAngyl wrote: »Shame about all the people who continue to argue against Keto, while millions more people across the globe continue to be trapped and become part of the obesity epidemic. Arguing that just go ahead and eat whatever you like as long as you stay within calories.
The modern 'fad' for carb centric diets started after WW2 but it clearly hasn't worked, as evidenced by looking around while at the mall.
It's about time people started waking up and getting back to the position of Ketosis being absolutely okay and a natural experience that many people went into and out of regularly over hundreds of thousands of years of man's evolution.
You say it so much nicer than I do..
Course I envy those who can carb and lose weight.. but I agree.. it APPARENTLY isn't the easiest way or more obese people wouldn't struggle and give up and restart over and over and over and.. well you get the idea. The only complaint from anti ketoers is from those who continued to over eat on it trying to hit macros .. not sure how that's possible but I think they are saying "do it for me so I don't have to do any work".. and from those who agreed it worked but didn't feel it was varied enough in choices because they listened to the psycho keto cults that restricted everything and didn't tell them about keto breads and noodles and deserts (or they are just lazy and if it isn't prepackaged it's not an option..) Now their minds are permanently poisoned to the idea.
I hate you're doing it wrong posts - no one ever appreciates them and they're usually not true. Some people don't respond well to keto, some people don't like the food, some people experience no tangible benefits, some people don't lose weight, some people do overeat - it doesn't work for them - and that's ok, it doesn't have to.
That it works for you is enough, right?
Exactly what I've been saying literally this ENTIRE TIME! But no.. let's pick and choose what they want to see..
1: "Keto (blurrs out important part) everyone.
2: It worked for me because (blah blah blah I don't want to hear this!)
3:But like I said, if I could do regular cico. I (she hates cico and thinks it's the wrong way! I hate her!)
4: Don't let others discourage you. There is more than one way to do keto. (OMG she just promoted keto!)
5: You may find you don't like it and prefer low carb instead. (Ugh! I hate keto promoters!)
6 and 7: But until you try for yourself, you won't know for sure if it's for you. Some do better on a higher (I refuse to listen to this crap!) diet. (All she did was promote her way of eating!)
So.. let's try this again but fill in the missed blanks. 1:(Isn't for) 2:(Pro's of why it helped me) 3:(Cons of why it may not work for you) 4:(They won't know unless they try for themselves so why bash it?? Unless you are promoting YOUR WOE!) 5:(Maybe they don't want high carbs and only know of two ways.. here is a chance to show them that there are variations to choose from.) 6:(carbs.. yeah.. I promoted something that didn't work for me. Hmmm. That it may or may not work for them is enough, right?) 7:(And back at square one as everything anti-ketoers are against is blanked out as they ignore the part where I promote ALL methods just so long as they TRY it without being biased by others.)
And just so we are clear.. vegetarians and vegans get attacked less than those who want to try keto or low carb. And some of them are keto as well! It isn't easy for vegans though.. Yet, if a VEGAN can attempt to eat high fat and low carb on their TRULY RESTRICTIVE diet, why can't a curious newbie try it for themselves before being attacked and scared away because others found it too hard for them? That's why they add friends who are like minded.. To seek advice when they are confused.
I agree with you 100% - you've nailed the experience most have with the general forums and it's why so few who eat low carb post here. All of the what-about-mah-vegtables, it's not sustainable, your breath, your kidneys, you can't cut out a whole food group, everything in moderation and the number the of woo's on posts for anyone who takes the time to share their positive experience with the diet is wrong. And it's absolutely shameful the ignorant, anti low carb bias is the loudest voice on the forums even when it's recommended by a posters doctor.
I hate all of that but the reverse it true too - a ketogenic diet isn't right for everyone and they should be able to share that.
I only had 3 woo's on my post about my personal experiences with the diet.
LOL
The board is getting more accepting of LCHF over time. A couple of years ago a keto thread would get more of the woo science responses than there is now. People know more about it and can approach it from an educated position.
I think a common argument now is against sustainability, but I have not seen anything that shows LCHF is less sustainable than any other diet. Again, I think that comes down to a person's circumstances. I could never maintain moderation in all things but I'm a few years into LCHF and keto.
The other most common seems to be the need to point out that keto is not magic. I have no idea if that is as common in vegetarian, vegan, Mediterranean, SAD, paleo/primal, clean eating, or moderation threads since I do not look into those as much. I doubt it though.... Well, maybe in paleo threads.aernest825 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »I eat less vegetables now just because I eat less than I did before but a day that looks like this (fruit & vegetables in the morning, salad for lunch and roasted vegetables for dinner) isn't unusual and I imagine it is a lot of vegetables for most (low carb or not):
Summary: 2.5 pounds or 14 servings of vegetables, 37 net carbs
Yes, but for ketosis, you are getting a LOT of carbs ; generally 20g max for those following keto
I agree with the previous poster. Ketogenic diets just has you in ketosis all the time. The carb level needed to maintain that can really vary. Many can do fine with 50g, athletes with timed carbs may go over 200g, inactive people with insulin resistance may need to stay under 20g, and some people find they feel best when their carbs are as close to zero as possible. There is a lot of variation.
Whatever the diet of the month is, generally gets the most attention.. Paleo was big a few years ago, and vegetarian/plant based still get some reactions as well (especially when they demonize dairy/meats). The problems occur when those who are new make the normal outrageous claims. If you need some examples on the claims, I can look through some of my recent threads and point some out, lol. Heck.. in one post, I could probably list the normal nonsense that I have heard from every major style diet.
ETA: I blame blogs, youtube and netflix.
Yeah, you can got into any "What the Health" thread and see it ripped to shreds, often by the very same people who are stating that "keto is not magic". Well, because it's not. No diet is magic. That was sort of a weird little non sequitur, but whatever.
The point being that outrageous claims made about any form of diet generally get ripped to shreds by all of the evidence based people on these boards. And that's an important distinction to note here.
I'm getting to a point I'd like to illustrate. We're not "loyal" to a way of eating, and it's weird to think of people that way. I'll offer, for example, two people from my friend list to illustrate my point here. @lemurcat12, @WinoGelato, and myself.
Lemurcat eats low carb. Wino Gelato eats a mix of macros, at roughly proportional ratios, and I eat higher carb with adequate protein and am a vegetarian. None of us eat the same diet. Yet all of us are in favor of evidence-based approaches to weight loss and sharing information.9 -
AlabasterVerve wrote: »GlassAngyl wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »GlassAngyl wrote: »Shame about all the people who continue to argue against Keto, while millions more people across the globe continue to be trapped and become part of the obesity epidemic. Arguing that just go ahead and eat whatever you like as long as you stay within calories.
The modern 'fad' for carb centric diets started after WW2 but it clearly hasn't worked, as evidenced by looking around while at the mall.
It's about time people started waking up and getting back to the position of Ketosis being absolutely okay and a natural experience that many people went into and out of regularly over hundreds of thousands of years of man's evolution.
You say it so much nicer than I do..
Course I envy those who can carb and lose weight.. but I agree.. it APPARENTLY isn't the easiest way or more obese people wouldn't struggle and give up and restart over and over and over and.. well you get the idea. The only complaint from anti ketoers is from those who continued to over eat on it trying to hit macros .. not sure how that's possible but I think they are saying "do it for me so I don't have to do any work".. and from those who agreed it worked but didn't feel it was varied enough in choices because they listened to the psycho keto cults that restricted everything and didn't tell them about keto breads and noodles and deserts (or they are just lazy and if it isn't prepackaged it's not an option..) Now their minds are permanently poisoned to the idea.
I hate you're doing it wrong posts - no one ever appreciates them and they're usually not true. Some people don't respond well to keto, some people don't like the food, some people experience no tangible benefits, some people don't lose weight, some people do overeat - it doesn't work for them - and that's ok, it doesn't have to.
That it works for you is enough, right?
Exactly what I've been saying literally this ENTIRE TIME! But no.. let's pick and choose what they want to see..
1: "Keto (blurrs out important part) everyone.
2: It worked for me because (blah blah blah I don't want to hear this!)
3:But like I said, if I could do regular cico. I (she hates cico and thinks it's the wrong way! I hate her!)
4: Don't let others discourage you. There is more than one way to do keto. (OMG she just promoted keto!)
5: You may find you don't like it and prefer low carb instead. (Ugh! I hate keto promoters!)
6 and 7: But until you try for yourself, you won't know for sure if it's for you. Some do better on a higher (I refuse to listen to this crap!) diet. (All she did was promote her way of eating!)
So.. let's try this again but fill in the missed blanks. 1:(Isn't for) 2:(Pro's of why it helped me) 3:(Cons of why it may not work for you) 4:(They won't know unless they try for themselves so why bash it?? Unless you are promoting YOUR WOE!) 5:(Maybe they don't want high carbs and only know of two ways.. here is a chance to show them that there are variations to choose from.) 6:(carbs.. yeah.. I promoted something that didn't work for me. Hmmm. That it may or may not work for them is enough, right?) 7:(And back at square one as everything anti-ketoers are against is blanked out as they ignore the part where I promote ALL methods just so long as they TRY it without being biased by others.)
And just so we are clear.. vegetarians and vegans get attacked less than those who want to try keto or low carb. And some of them are keto as well! It isn't easy for vegans though.. Yet, if a VEGAN can attempt to eat high fat and low carb on their TRULY RESTRICTIVE diet, why can't a curious newbie try it for themselves before being attacked and scared away because others found it too hard for them? That's why they add friends who are like minded.. To seek advice when they are confused.
I agree with you 100% - you've nailed the experience most have with the general forums and it's why so few who eat low carb post here. All of the what-about-mah-vegtables, it's not sustainable, your breath, your kidneys, you can't cut out a whole food group, everything in moderation and the number the of woo's on posts for anyone who takes the time to share their positive experience with the diet is wrong. And it's absolutely shameful the ignorant, anti low carb bias is the loudest voice on the forums even when it's recommended by a posters doctor.
I hate all of that but the reverse it true too - a ketogenic diet isn't right for everyone and they should be able to share that.
I only had 3 woo's on my post about my personal experiences with the diet. LOL
The board is getting more accepting of LCHF over time. A couple of years ago a keto thread would get more of the woo science responses than there is now. People know more about it and can approach it from an educated position.
I think a common argument now is against sustainability, but I have not seen anything that shows LCHF is less sustainable than any other diet. Again, I think that comes down to a person's circumstances. I could never maintain moderation in all things but I'm a few years into LCHF and keto.
The other most common seems to be the need to point out that keto is not magic. I have no idea if that is as common in vegetarian, vegan, Mediterranean, SAD, paleo/primal, clean eating, or moderation threads since I do not look into those as much. I doubt it though.... Well, maybe in paleo threads.aernest825 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »I eat less vegetables now just because I eat less than I did before but a day that looks like this (fruit & vegetables in the morning, salad for lunch and roasted vegetables for dinner) isn't unusual and I imagine it is a lot of vegetables for most (low carb or not):
Summary: 2.5 pounds or 14 servings of vegetables, 37 net carbs
Yes, but for ketosis, you are getting a LOT of carbs ; generally 20g max for those following keto
I agree with the previous poster. Ketogenic diets just has you in ketosis all the time. The carb level needed to maintain that can really vary. Many can do fine with 50g, athletes with timed carbs may go over 200g, inactive people with insulin resistance may need to stay under 20g, and some people find they feel best when their carbs are as close to zero as possible. There is a lot of variation.
Whatever the diet of the month is, generally gets the most attention.. Paleo was big a few years ago, and vegetarian/plant based still get some reactions as well (especially when they demonize dairy/meats). The problems occur when those who are new make the normal outrageous claims. If you need some examples on the claims, I can look through some of my recent threads and point some out, lol. Heck.. in one post, I could probably list the normal nonsense that I have heard from every major style diet.
ETA: I blame blogs, youtube and netflix.
True there are flavours of the month/year. I get that. It just sometimes feels to me, and this is just my perception, that these diets do get attacked because they are named diets that have been, or are, popular. It does not necessarily make the health benefits that some experience on these diets (not just keto) wrong.
Some diets can help some people's health. Keto can be very good for those with IR, NAFLD, PCOS, epilepsy, some brain cancers or along with some therapies like chemo, some possible help with Alzheimer's disease (there -I came along and said it ), and for some with CAD, IBS or other ailments. Other diets (seems to usually be whole foods based) can help with some of these same problems or other issues. Specific diets can also help with weight loss if they help with satiety, stabilized BG, better energy, better portion control, more balanced hormones, or for other reasons.
For those who finally find a diet that is improving their health, or making weight loss possible after years of struggle, a specific diet can feel like a miracle cure to that person. Sure, it won't work for everyone, just like all drugs do not work for everyone, but we often see people being told that their experience is wrong, or that they are wrong, simply because instead of saying "some people can be helped" they said "it will help". All that is needed there is a gentle correction that it may not work for all. Instead it can feel like an attack on someone who is new and just wanting to share their excitement.
It's almost like a kid showing off his new toy car and getting the response of "Meh. I don't like cars. It's not great" from those who are older and more experienced. A response of "I'm glad you like it," might fit better, and without the disclaimer of "but I don't like it." KWIM?
Of course on this thread, the OP asked for personal pros and cons. Giving your own experiences, both pros and cons was asked for. An "I didn't like it," fits perfectly in this thread. But saying someone's pro or con is wrong is a bit presumptuous - on both sides.
This is just my perception and opinion though. No one else's.9 -
I've known 2 people who have done Keto. I've done CICO. I've lost over 80lbs and been maintaining within 5 pounds +/- for 3 years approx. Both people who did Keto- one is gaining as we speak (Ican see it on her). The other (my husband) gained it all back and then some.
If it works for you great! But both people got sick of being on such a restrictive diet that they went back to their normal and gained.
Where as I'm still happy as can be
4 -
AlabasterVerve wrote: »GlassAngyl wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »GlassAngyl wrote: »Shame about all the people who continue to argue against Keto, while millions more people across the globe continue to be trapped and become part of the obesity epidemic. Arguing that just go ahead and eat whatever you like as long as you stay within calories.
The modern 'fad' for carb centric diets started after WW2 but it clearly hasn't worked, as evidenced by looking around while at the mall.
It's about time people started waking up and getting back to the position of Ketosis being absolutely okay and a natural experience that many people went into and out of regularly over hundreds of thousands of years of man's evolution.
You say it so much nicer than I do..
Course I envy those who can carb and lose weight.. but I agree.. it APPARENTLY isn't the easiest way or more obese people wouldn't struggle and give up and restart over and over and over and.. well you get the idea. The only complaint from anti ketoers is from those who continued to over eat on it trying to hit macros .. not sure how that's possible but I think they are saying "do it for me so I don't have to do any work".. and from those who agreed it worked but didn't feel it was varied enough in choices because they listened to the psycho keto cults that restricted everything and didn't tell them about keto breads and noodles and deserts (or they are just lazy and if it isn't prepackaged it's not an option..) Now their minds are permanently poisoned to the idea.
I hate you're doing it wrong posts - no one ever appreciates them and they're usually not true. Some people don't respond well to keto, some people don't like the food, some people experience no tangible benefits, some people don't lose weight, some people do overeat - it doesn't work for them - and that's ok, it doesn't have to.
That it works for you is enough, right?
Exactly what I've been saying literally this ENTIRE TIME! But no.. let's pick and choose what they want to see..
1: "Keto (blurrs out important part) everyone.
2: It worked for me because (blah blah blah I don't want to hear this!)
3:But like I said, if I could do regular cico. I (she hates cico and thinks it's the wrong way! I hate her!)
4: Don't let others discourage you. There is more than one way to do keto. (OMG she just promoted keto!)
5: You may find you don't like it and prefer low carb instead. (Ugh! I hate keto promoters!)
6 and 7: But until you try for yourself, you won't know for sure if it's for you. Some do better on a higher (I refuse to listen to this crap!) diet. (All she did was promote her way of eating!)
So.. let's try this again but fill in the missed blanks. 1:(Isn't for) 2:(Pro's of why it helped me) 3:(Cons of why it may not work for you) 4:(They won't know unless they try for themselves so why bash it?? Unless you are promoting YOUR WOE!) 5:(Maybe they don't want high carbs and only know of two ways.. here is a chance to show them that there are variations to choose from.) 6:(carbs.. yeah.. I promoted something that didn't work for me. Hmmm. That it may or may not work for them is enough, right?) 7:(And back at square one as everything anti-ketoers are against is blanked out as they ignore the part where I promote ALL methods just so long as they TRY it without being biased by others.)
And just so we are clear.. vegetarians and vegans get attacked less than those who want to try keto or low carb. And some of them are keto as well! It isn't easy for vegans though.. Yet, if a VEGAN can attempt to eat high fat and low carb on their TRULY RESTRICTIVE diet, why can't a curious newbie try it for themselves before being attacked and scared away because others found it too hard for them? That's why they add friends who are like minded.. To seek advice when they are confused.
I agree with you 100% - you've nailed the experience most have with the general forums and it's why so few who eat low carb post here. All of the what-about-mah-vegtables, it's not sustainable, your breath, your kidneys, you can't cut out a whole food group, everything in moderation and the number the of woo's on posts for anyone who takes the time to share their positive experience with the diet is wrong. And it's absolutely shameful the ignorant, anti low carb bias is the loudest voice on the forums even when it's recommended by a posters doctor.
I hate all of that but the reverse it true too - a ketogenic diet isn't right for everyone and they should be able to share that.
I only had 3 woo's on my post about my personal experiences with the diet. LOL
The board is getting more accepting of LCHF over time. A couple of years ago a keto thread would get more of the woo science responses than there is now. People know more about it and can approach it from an educated position.
I think a common argument now is against sustainability, but I have not seen anything that shows LCHF is less sustainable than any other diet. Again, I think that comes down to a person's circumstances. I could never maintain moderation in all things but I'm a few years into LCHF and keto.
The other most common seems to be the need to point out that keto is not magic. I have no idea if that is as common in vegetarian, vegan, Mediterranean, SAD, paleo/primal, clean eating, or moderation threads since I do not look into those as much. I doubt it though.... Well, maybe in paleo threads.aernest825 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »I eat less vegetables now just because I eat less than I did before but a day that looks like this (fruit & vegetables in the morning, salad for lunch and roasted vegetables for dinner) isn't unusual and I imagine it is a lot of vegetables for most (low carb or not):
Summary: 2.5 pounds or 14 servings of vegetables, 37 net carbs
Yes, but for ketosis, you are getting a LOT of carbs ; generally 20g max for those following keto
I agree with the previous poster. Ketogenic diets just has you in ketosis all the time. The carb level needed to maintain that can really vary. Many can do fine with 50g, athletes with timed carbs may go over 200g, inactive people with insulin resistance may need to stay under 20g, and some people find they feel best when their carbs are as close to zero as possible. There is a lot of variation.
Whatever the diet of the month is, generally gets the most attention.. Paleo was big a few years ago, and vegetarian/plant based still get some reactions as well (especially when they demonize dairy/meats). The problems occur when those who are new make the normal outrageous claims. If you need some examples on the claims, I can look through some of my recent threads and point some out, lol. Heck.. in one post, I could probably list the normal nonsense that I have heard from every major style diet.
ETA: I blame blogs, youtube and netflix.
True there are flavours of the month/year. I get that. It just sometimes feels to me, and this is just my perception, that these diets do get attacked because they are named diets that have been, or are, popular. It does not necessarily make the health benefits that some experience on these diets (not just keto) wrong.
Some diets can help some people's health. Keto can be very good for those with IR, NAFLD, PCOS, epilepsy, some brain cancers or along with some therapies like chemo, some possible help with Alzheimer's disease (there -I came along and said it ), and for some with CAD, IBS or other ailments. Other diets (seems to usually be whole foods based) can help with some of these same problems or other issues. Specific diets can also help with weight loss if they help with satiety, stabilized BG, better energy, better portion control, more balanced hormones, or for other reasons.
For those who finally find a diet that is improving their health, or making weight loss possible after years of struggle, a specific diet can feel like a miracle cure to that person. Sure, it won't work for everyone, just like all drugs do not work for everyone, but we often see people being told that their experience is wrong, or that they are wrong, simply because instead of saying "some people can be helped" they said "it will help". All that is needed there is a gentle correction that it may not work for all. Instead it can feel like an attack on someone who is new and just wanting to share their excitement.
It's almost like a kid showing off his new toy car and getting the response of "Meh. I don't like cars. It's not great" from those who are older and more experienced. A response of "I'm glad you like it," might fit better, and without the disclaimer of "but I don't like it." KWIM?
Of course on this thread, the OP asked for personal pros and cons. Giving your own experiences, both pros and cons was asked for. An "I didn't like it," fits perfectly in this thread. But saying someone's pro or con is wrong is a bit presumptuous - on both sides.
This is just my perception and opinion though. No one else's.
Like you said...when it works people want to scream it from the roof top but I truly believe reguardless of what type of diet you go on it still boils down to cico for weight loss.
Loseing weight will help with all types of issues people have and it's not always how you lost it. For me I cut added sugars...since mfp message boards seem to favor iifym I have to be careful about how I talk about cutting sugar... kind of like you do about the possible health benefits for people following keto.
IMO At the end of the day we all just have to find what works best for each of us and do that1 -
True there are flavours of the month/year. I get that. It just sometimes feels to me, and this is just my perception, that these diets do get attacked because they are named diets that have been, or are, popular. It does not necessarily make the health benefits that some experience on these diets (not just keto) wrong.
Some diets can help some people's health. Keto can be very good for those with IR, NAFLD, PCOS, epilepsy, some brain cancers or along with some therapies like chemo, some possible help with Alzheimer's disease (there -I came along and said it ), and for some with CAD, IBS or other ailments. Other diets (seems to usually be whole foods based) can help with some of these same problems or other issues. Specific diets can also help with weight loss if they help with satiety, stabilized BG, better energy, better portion control, more balanced hormones, or for other reasons.
For those who finally find a diet that is improving their health, or making weight loss possible after years of struggle, a specific diet can feel like a miracle cure to that person. Sure, it won't work for everyone, just like all drugs do not work for everyone, but we often see people being told that their experience is wrong, or that they are wrong, simply because instead of saying "some people can be helped" they said "it will help". All that is needed there is a gentle correction that it may not work for all. Instead it can feel like an attack on someone who is new and just wanting to share their excitement.
It's almost like a kid showing off his new toy car and getting the response of "Meh. I don't like cars. It's not great" from those who are older and more experienced. A response of "I'm glad you like it," might fit better, and without the disclaimer of "but I don't like it." KWIM?
Of course on this thread, the OP asked for personal pros and cons. Giving your own experiences, both pros and cons was asked for. An "I didn't like it," fits perfectly in this thread. But saying someone's pro or con is wrong is a bit presumptuous - on both sides.
This is just my perception and opinion though. No one else's.
Ironically, all those perceptions I share with all the keto-zealots and why i regularly correct people in keto threads. Personally, whatever diet a person finds sustainable is great. Heck, I have trained people from keto to vegan. I will never tell people to not follow a diet.
I will note, in my mod experience, no thread is worse than one from an overzealous new vegan (generally a teen) who thinks that we are all murdering animals, drinking animal puss, etc.. Because even experienced and educated vegans will battle against them.3 -
I totally agree that the "shout it from the rooftop" mentality is someone has found something that works for them. I dont think there's anything wrong with that as long as it's understood their truth is not universal.
I just did a "one year keto" post in the LCHF forum a week ago or so. I would never ever post it here. I can only imagine what responses and "woos" I would get even though I feel I am pretty level headed about it and always do a YMMV disclaimer. Sad part is maybe it would have helped someone out here but selfishly I don't want to deal with the headaches and blow back of such a post. Don't have the time or inclination. The atmosphere here can be pretty toxic if you aren't in "team moderation" club. Seems most of the folks in LCHF already understand things are NOT universal and it rarely needs to be said. Good questions are asked and answered in a friendly non-judgemental way.
At my age though I don't give a flying monkey what anyone thinks about the way I eat. When I have time I will answer questions as it pertained to myself only. Try to remember the YMMV disclaimer and try and stop Keto nonsense when I can. It's all anyone can do.5 -
I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
7 -
I forgot to mention...I travel sea to shining sea for my work about 50/50 of the time. Because I have educated myself on options/foods/restaurants common in all areas of the US, I never have trouble staying Keto when on the road. It is no harder than awareness of calorie counts in the same situation. I can manage fast food with kids and I never have issues celebrating with friends. Knowledge and management...just like anything else.1
-
lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
7 -
True there are flavours of the month/year. I get that. It just sometimes feels to me, and this is just my perception, that these diets do get attacked because they are named diets that have been, or are, popular. It does not necessarily make the health benefits that some experience on these diets (not just keto) wrong.
Some diets can help some people's health. Keto can be very good for those with IR, NAFLD, PCOS, epilepsy, some brain cancers or along with some therapies like chemo, some possible help with Alzheimer's disease (there -I came along and said it ), and for some with CAD, IBS or other ailments. Other diets (seems to usually be whole foods based) can help with some of these same problems or other issues. Specific diets can also help with weight loss if they help with satiety, stabilized BG, better energy, better portion control, more balanced hormones, or for other reasons.
For those who finally find a diet that is improving their health, or making weight loss possible after years of struggle, a specific diet can feel like a miracle cure to that person. Sure, it won't work for everyone, just like all drugs do not work for everyone, but we often see people being told that their experience is wrong, or that they are wrong, simply because instead of saying "some people can be helped" they said "it will help". All that is needed there is a gentle correction that it may not work for all. Instead it can feel like an attack on someone who is new and just wanting to share their excitement.
It's almost like a kid showing off his new toy car and getting the response of "Meh. I don't like cars. It's not great" from those who are older and more experienced. A response of "I'm glad you like it," might fit better, and without the disclaimer of "but I don't like it." KWIM?
Of course on this thread, the OP asked for personal pros and cons. Giving your own experiences, both pros and cons was asked for. An "I didn't like it," fits perfectly in this thread. But saying someone's pro or con is wrong is a bit presumptuous - on both sides.
This is just my perception and opinion though. No one else's.
Ironically, all those perceptions I share with all the keto-zealots and why i regularly correct people in keto threads. Personally, whatever diet a person finds sustainable is great. Heck, I have trained people from keto to vegan. I will never tell people to not follow a diet.
I will note, in my mod experience, no thread is worse than one from an overzealous new vegan (generally a teen) who thinks that we are all murdering animals, drinking animal puss, etc.. Because even experienced and educated vegans will battle against them.
Animal puss? mmm. LOL
I can see vegan converts being enthusiastic since veganism is almost as much a philosophy and way of life as it is a way of eating. Makes sense... Makes me curious to check out more vegan threads too. 1 -
True there are flavours of the month/year. I get that. It just sometimes feels to me, and this is just my perception, that these diets do get attacked because they are named diets that have been, or are, popular. It does not necessarily make the health benefits that some experience on these diets (not just keto) wrong.
Some diets can help some people's health. Keto can be very good for those with IR, NAFLD, PCOS, epilepsy, some brain cancers or along with some therapies like chemo, some possible help with Alzheimer's disease (there -I came along and said it ), and for some with CAD, IBS or other ailments. Other diets (seems to usually be whole foods based) can help with some of these same problems or other issues. Specific diets can also help with weight loss if they help with satiety, stabilized BG, better energy, better portion control, more balanced hormones, or for other reasons.
For those who finally find a diet that is improving their health, or making weight loss possible after years of struggle, a specific diet can feel like a miracle cure to that person. Sure, it won't work for everyone, just like all drugs do not work for everyone, but we often see people being told that their experience is wrong, or that they are wrong, simply because instead of saying "some people can be helped" they said "it will help". All that is needed there is a gentle correction that it may not work for all. Instead it can feel like an attack on someone who is new and just wanting to share their excitement.
It's almost like a kid showing off his new toy car and getting the response of "Meh. I don't like cars. It's not great" from those who are older and more experienced. A response of "I'm glad you like it," might fit better, and without the disclaimer of "but I don't like it." KWIM?
Of course on this thread, the OP asked for personal pros and cons. Giving your own experiences, both pros and cons was asked for. An "I didn't like it," fits perfectly in this thread. But saying someone's pro or con is wrong is a bit presumptuous - on both sides.
This is just my perception and opinion though. No one else's.
Ironically, all those perceptions I share with all the keto-zealots and why i regularly correct people in keto threads. Personally, whatever diet a person finds sustainable is great. Heck, I have trained people from keto to vegan. I will never tell people to not follow a diet.
I will note, in my mod experience, no thread is worse than one from an overzealous new vegan (generally a teen) who thinks that we are all murdering animals, drinking animal puss, etc.. Because even experienced and educated vegans will battle against them.
Animal puss? mmm. LOL
I can see vegan converts being enthusiastic since veganism is almost as much a philosophy and way of life as it is a way of eating. Makes sense... Makes me curious to check out more vegan threads too.
The animal puss thing usually in the "is dairy healthy for you" threads..... almost every single time.4 -
lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
16 -
emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.6 -
emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
18 -
emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.12 -
Oh, also "associated" means something else in a scientific context. And in the very next sentences after the one psu bolded she said glutenfree is more healthy than the same recipe with gluten, so there's that.8
-
stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
If they spout bull then so be it...he was claiming she said something she clearly didn't say
1 -
stevencloser wrote: »Oh, also "associated" means something else in a scientific context. And in the very next sentences after the one psu bolded she said glutenfree is more healthy than the same recipe with gluten, so there's that.
Can you prove it isn't healthier?
My guess is that's her opinion but I don't know that for a fact.
So there's nothing....again
11 -
emailmehere1122 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Oh, also "associated" means something else in a scientific context. And in the very next sentences after the one psu bolded she said glutenfree is more healthy than the same recipe with gluten, so there's that.
Can you prove it isn't healthier?
My guess is that's her opinion but I don't know that for a fact.
So there's nothing....again
Prove there isn't a teapot revolving around mars.
That's not how discussions work.9 -
stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Oh, also "associated" means something else in a scientific context. And in the very next sentences after the one psu bolded she said glutenfree is more healthy than the same recipe with gluten, so there's that.
Can you prove it isn't healthier?
My guess is that's her opinion but I don't know that for a fact.
So there's nothing....again
Prove there isn't a teapot revolving around mars.
That's not how discussions work.
You inferred that the statement wasn't true so I'm guessing that's your opinion... just because it's your opinion, her opinion, or even my opinion doesn't make it a fact
I feel we are pulling this thread off topic. So if you would like to provide a link showing the scientific meaning of the word associate and if she comes back and states thats the context in which she was speaking I will gladly admit I was mistaken and apologize. Otherwise I'm no longer going to pull this thread off topic.
Have a blessed day.9
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.4K Getting Started
- 259.7K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 388 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.2K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.2K MyFitnessPal Information
- 22 News and Announcements
- 916 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.3K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions