Pros and cons of a Keto Diet
Replies
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.
You know what? It's not even just the unsubstantiated claims. I realized this reading the discussion.
It's also the subtle, underlying premise: that's it's the way of eating that is responsible for everything experienced by keto eaters.
The simple fact is that losing weight is responsible for a large amount of what keto proponents attribute to keto itself and that the push back they receive is because they attribute it solely to their dietary choice.
Keto itself isn't responsible for a laundry list of health improvements that a lot of you folks claim it to be. Weight loss is. If more of you stopped with that ish, I think there'd be a lot less push back AND woo voting.
I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.8 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.
You know what? It's not even just the unsubstantiated claims. I realized this reading the discussion.
It's also the subtle, underlying premise: that's it's the way of eating that is responsible for everything experienced by keto eaters.
The simple fact is that losing weight is responsible for a large amount of what keto proponents attribute to keto itself and that the push back they receive is because they attribute it solely to their dietary choice.
Keto itself isn't responsible for a laundry list of health improvements that a lot of you folks claim it to be. Weight loss is. If more of you stopped with that ish, I think there'd be a lot less push back AND woo voting.
I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
My osteopath would not agree with you in most cases. His mantra is that for every 10% reduction in body weight, all kinds of things improve without taking any additional steps in overweight and obese people based on blood tests. The operative word is "most" people. In some people, there are health issues that will resolve with keto even if they don't lose weight.
So I think your use of the bolded phrase above is just plain not accurate. I'd be happy to look at any statistical or study data that indicates otherwise with an open mind. Honestly though, this is the kind of unsubstantiated(so far) claim that causes non keto folks to be extremely skeptical. I just don't know how you can make claims of "often" or "usually" without data to back it up. So, it just goes into the realm of a questionable claim based on subjective opinion that gets challenged.
ETA: It makes a huge difference in terms of perception for me when these kinds of general claims across a population aren't made and someone just says something like, "keto diet seems to improve my health in the following ways that I didn't experience when eating higher carb. It works for me." Either that or back up the claims from the get go because you can pretty much count on the fact that if they sound suspicious they are going to get challenged. And that doesn't just apply to keto threads. Body fat threads with claims get the same treatment as do Vegan threads or "I've replaced fat with muscle in 2 weeks" threads. Most people prefer to deal in proof and fact and not just conjecture.6 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.
You know what? It's not even just the unsubstantiated claims. I realized this reading the discussion.
It's also the subtle, underlying premise: that's it's the way of eating that is responsible for everything experienced by keto eaters.
The simple fact is that losing weight is responsible for a large amount of what keto proponents attribute to keto itself and that the push back they receive is because they attribute it solely to their dietary choice.
Keto itself isn't responsible for a laundry list of health improvements that a lot of you folks claim it to be. Weight loss is. If more of you stopped with that ish, I think there'd be a lot less push back AND woo voting.
I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
As mmapags said, it takes a mere 10% reduction in weight to see benefits.
Additionally, many dieters experience relief of many symptoms simply by no longer OVEReating. The benefits have nothing to do with how they are eating, it has to do with eating less.
I believe that you have formed your view is the one that's opinion based, not mine.7 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.
You know what? It's not even just the unsubstantiated claims. I realized this reading the discussion.
It's also the subtle, underlying premise: that's it's the way of eating that is responsible for everything experienced by keto eaters.
The simple fact is that losing weight is responsible for a large amount of what keto proponents attribute to keto itself and that the push back they receive is because they attribute it solely to their dietary choice.
Keto itself isn't responsible for a laundry list of health improvements that a lot of you folks claim it to be. Weight loss is. If more of you stopped with that ish, I think there'd be a lot less push back AND woo voting.
I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
My osteopath would not agree with you in most cases. His mantra is that for every 10% reduction in body weight, all kinds of things improve without taking any additional steps in overweight and obese people based on blood tests. The operative word is "most" people. In some people, there are health issues that will resolve with keto even if they don't lose weight.
So I think your use of the bolded phrase above is just plain not accurate. I'd be happy to look at any statistical or study data that indicates otherwise with an open mind. Honestly though, this is the kind of unsubstantiated(so far) claim that causes non keto folks to be extremely skeptical. I just don't know how you can make claims of "often" or "usually" without data to back it up. So, it just goes into the realm of a questionable claim based on subjective opinion that gets challenged.
ETA: It makes a huge difference in terms of perception for me when these kinds of general claims across a population aren't made and someone just says something like, "keto diet seems to improve my health in the following ways that I didn't experience when eating higher carb. It works for me." Either that or back up the claims from the get go because you can pretty much count on the fact that if they sound suspicious they are going to get challenged. And that doesn't just apply to keto threads. Body fat threads with claims get the same treatment as do Vegan threads or "I've replaced fat with muscle in 2 weeks" threads. Most people prefer to deal in proof and fact and not just conjecture.
I think the one exception was be BG control in diabetes or those with IR.2 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.
You know what? It's not even just the unsubstantiated claims. I realized this reading the discussion.
It's also the subtle, underlying premise: that's it's the way of eating that is responsible for everything experienced by keto eaters.
The simple fact is that losing weight is responsible for a large amount of what keto proponents attribute to keto itself and that the push back they receive is because they attribute it solely to their dietary choice.
Keto itself isn't responsible for a laundry list of health improvements that a lot of you folks claim it to be. Weight loss is. If more of you stopped with that ish, I think there'd be a lot less push back AND woo voting.
I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
My osteopath would not agree with you in most cases. His mantra is that for every 10% reduction in body weight, all kinds of things improve without taking any additional steps in overweight and obese people based on blood tests. The operative word is "most" people. In some people, there are health issues that will resolve with keto even if they don't lose weight.
So I think your use of the bolded phrase above is just plain not accurate. I'd be happy to look at any statistical or study data that indicates otherwise with an open mind. Honestly though, this is the kind of unsubstantiated(so far) claim that causes non keto folks to be extremely skeptical. I just don't know how you can make claims of "often" or "usually" without data to back it up. So, it just goes into the realm of a questionable claim based on subjective opinion that gets challenged.
ETA: It makes a huge difference in terms of perception for me when these kinds of general claims across a population aren't made and someone just says something like, "keto diet seems to improve my health in the following ways that I didn't experience when eating higher carb. It works for me." Either that or back up the claims from the get go because you can pretty much count on the fact that if they sound suspicious they are going to get challenged. And that doesn't just apply to keto threads. Body fat threads with claims get the same treatment as do Vegan threads or "I've replaced fat with muscle in 2 weeks" threads. Most people prefer to deal in proof and fact and not just conjecture.
I think the one exception was be BG control in diabetes or those with IR.
Yup, these are the ones where there is actual research that proves results. I don't eat keto. But I do eat low carb due to a family history with T2D. So I keep carbs under 200 usually and between 100 and 150 gr often. Just happen to get numbers today for my annual physical on Monday. BG was in range but at the upper end. A1c was middle of good range. Depending on my doctor's recommendations, I may lower carbs.
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.
You know what? It's not even just the unsubstantiated claims. I realized this reading the discussion.
It's also the subtle, underlying premise: that's it's the way of eating that is responsible for everything experienced by keto eaters.
The simple fact is that losing weight is responsible for a large amount of what keto proponents attribute to keto itself and that the push back they receive is because they attribute it solely to their dietary choice.
Keto itself isn't responsible for a laundry list of health improvements that a lot of you folks claim it to be. Weight loss is. If more of you stopped with that ish, I think there'd be a lot less push back AND woo voting.
I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
As mmapags said, it takes a mere 10% reduction in weight to see benefits.
Additionally, many dieters experience relief of many symptoms simply by no longer OVEReating. The benefits have nothing to do with how they are eating, it has to do with eating less.
I believe that you have formed your view is the one that's opinion based, not mine.
Would you mind sharing the links to the info about the benefits not having anything to do about what you're eating but how much. Ive read the ones about limiting calories but I've never seen any that state the type of foods you're eating do not matter. Thank you
2 -
Interesting article that popped up tonight that relates to this discussion. Article is by James Fell. Includes input from Alan Aragon and Susan Kliener.
http://www.bodyforwife.com/keto-and-low-carb-diets-kill-performance/
Includes multiple studies regarding keto diets and athletic performance.
Quote from the article.
"Susan Kleiner shared with me a screen shot of research examining ketogenic diet and athletic performance. Seventeen of the studies showed a performance decrease, and only two showed a performance increase, but both of those “performance increase” studies came with caveats (intensity was only moderate / carbohydrate loading for performance was possible / no muscle biopsies to prove ketogenic state)."
Athletic performance may not be important to all but if you are working out, the higher the intensity you can achieve, the greater the calorie burn.5 -
emailmehere1122 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.
You know what? It's not even just the unsubstantiated claims. I realized this reading the discussion.
It's also the subtle, underlying premise: that's it's the way of eating that is responsible for everything experienced by keto eaters.
The simple fact is that losing weight is responsible for a large amount of what keto proponents attribute to keto itself and that the push back they receive is because they attribute it solely to their dietary choice.
Keto itself isn't responsible for a laundry list of health improvements that a lot of you folks claim it to be. Weight loss is. If more of you stopped with that ish, I think there'd be a lot less push back AND woo voting.
I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
As mmapags said, it takes a mere 10% reduction in weight to see benefits.
Additionally, many dieters experience relief of many symptoms simply by no longer OVEReating. The benefits have nothing to do with how they are eating, it has to do with eating less.
I believe that you have formed your view is the one that's opinion based, not mine.
Would you mind sharing the links to the info about the benefits not having anything to do about what you're eating but how much. Ive read the ones about limiting calories but I've never seen any that state the type of foods you're eating do not matter. Thank you
Where did anyone state that the types of foods your eating does not matter? I don't see that stated anywhere. BTW, feel free to google the Twinkie Diet. The practitioner ate lots of twinkies and generally a poor diet nutritionally but stayed in calorie deficit and lost weight. Their blood markers improved.
Would I recommend this? Nope. I think people should eat a diet rich in nutritious foods and, over the long term they will realize healthy outcomes combined with a healthy body weight. There are many ways to do that and which way is a personal choice. The fact remains though that, with the exception of a limited population with specific issues, keto holds not metabolic advantage that has ever been proven in any study that has held calories and protein constant.2 -
emailmehere1122 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.
You know what? It's not even just the unsubstantiated claims. I realized this reading the discussion.
It's also the subtle, underlying premise: that's it's the way of eating that is responsible for everything experienced by keto eaters.
The simple fact is that losing weight is responsible for a large amount of what keto proponents attribute to keto itself and that the push back they receive is because they attribute it solely to their dietary choice.
Keto itself isn't responsible for a laundry list of health improvements that a lot of you folks claim it to be. Weight loss is. If more of you stopped with that ish, I think there'd be a lot less push back AND woo voting.
I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
As mmapags said, it takes a mere 10% reduction in weight to see benefits.
Additionally, many dieters experience relief of many symptoms simply by no longer OVEReating. The benefits have nothing to do with how they are eating, it has to do with eating less.
I believe that you have formed your view is the one that's opinion based, not mine.
Would you mind sharing the links to the info about the benefits not having anything to do about what you're eating but how much. Ive read the ones about limiting calories but I've never seen any that state the type of foods you're eating do not matter. Thank you
Context of my statements within the ongoing conversation was important here. I meant that you didn't have to be eating keto to see benefits right away. That simply no longer overeating and controlling calories was enough for many people to experience relief of symptoms for things like GERD, for example.
Any macro mix of mainly nutritious foods (and it's fine to have some not-so-nutritious foods, too) that are calorie controlled will do. That's the point. It's not just keto.
The problem is that people want to blame a certain food or macro for what ails them when the real issue is that they over ate. Stopping the act of over eating solves a host of their issues.
It's fine that keto makes it easier for some people to no longer over eat. It's fine that some people experience all carbohydrate dense foods as trigger foods.
What's not fine is blaming issues caused by overeating FOOD on overeating CARBS. (even if that's the macro you mostly ate). There's a fine distinction to be made there, but it's an important one in these discussions and it's the point of contention between forum regulars and the low carb/keto crowd.
We all have had a common enemy in our pasts and that should unite us. That common enemy is over eating.
Instead, many low carbers just want to lay all the blame at the doorstep of carbohydrates and pass the buck on their own part in a common behavior that leads everyone who has ever gained weight into the same situation of needing to lose it.
I personally low carbed for ten years. You'd think that someone in that position would be a lifer.
Nope. This perspective is why I don't think it's a sustainable thing for more than very, very few people, regardless of what they think it does for their health or well being or anything. I thought all those things too at one time or another. They all fall by the wayside, eventually. Time has a way of dulling over the bright shiny edges of idealism.
We all grew up eating and liking certain foods. They will always call out to us. Some we can do without forever. Some of us have to do without some forever (I have celiac disease, I live this reality). But there are some others that you ask yourself ... do I really want to go the rest of my life and never eat a potato/oatmeal/beans again?
Believe it or not, those were the things I missed the most. It wasn't the sweets or candy or anything like that, it was healthy carbs like those. And it was gluten free oatmeal coming onto the market that made me decide to stop low carbing, because no, no I did not want to live the rest of my life letting food control me.
I still had more to learn, and I'm still learning. I didn't have all the tools I needed to manage my weight properly back then. I do now.
I know this was a long rambling answer. Sorry about that. I just wish both crowds could come together over getting past the old behaviors of over eating and get past this notion that a way of eating has to be superior to another way of eating in some way in order for it to feel validated.12 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.
You know what? It's not even just the unsubstantiated claims. I realized this reading the discussion.
It's also the subtle, underlying premise: that's it's the way of eating that is responsible for everything experienced by keto eaters.
The simple fact is that losing weight is responsible for a large amount of what keto proponents attribute to keto itself and that the push back they receive is because they attribute it solely to their dietary choice.
Keto itself isn't responsible for a laundry list of health improvements that a lot of you folks claim it to be. Weight loss is. If more of you stopped with that ish, I think there'd be a lot less push back AND woo voting.
I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
As mmapags said, it takes a mere 10% reduction in weight to see benefits.
Additionally, many dieters experience relief of many symptoms simply by no longer OVEReating. The benefits have nothing to do with how they are eating, it has to do with eating less.
I believe that you have formed your view is the one that's opinion based, not mine.
Mine is an opinion, which is why I wrote "I think" instead of "a fact". It is based on my own experiences and what I have heard from other low carbers who are using the diet to address health issues on the Low Carber Daily boards.
But yes, it could be a 10% reduction in weight responsible for some benefits. No for others though. Within the first month of keto, during which I lost 10 lbs (over 5% reduction) and experienced better skin and hair, steadier energy, better BP, better BG control and no more reactive hypoglycemia, fewer headaches, and better cognitive abilities. For me, someone with IR, benefits came quickly.2 -
I tried keto for a little while. In the end, I decided it wasn’t for me, but I’m glad I did it. I learned that protein + fiber keeps me full for hours and hours. I also learned that high fat intake makes me incredibly sleepy and... uh... not socially acceptable.2
-
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.
You know what? It's not even just the unsubstantiated claims. I realized this reading the discussion.
It's also the subtle, underlying premise: that's it's the way of eating that is responsible for everything experienced by keto eaters.
The simple fact is that losing weight is responsible for a large amount of what keto proponents attribute to keto itself and that the push back they receive is because they attribute it solely to their dietary choice.
Keto itself isn't responsible for a laundry list of health improvements that a lot of you folks claim it to be. Weight loss is. If more of you stopped with that ish, I think there'd be a lot less push back AND woo voting.
I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
As mmapags said, it takes a mere 10% reduction in weight to see benefits.
Additionally, many dieters experience relief of many symptoms simply by no longer OVEReating. The benefits have nothing to do with how they are eating, it has to do with eating less.
I believe that you have formed your view is the one that's opinion based, not mine.
Mine is an opinion, which is why I wrote "I think" instead of "a fact". It is based on my own experiences and what I have heard from other low carbers who are using the diet to address health issues on the Low Carber Daily boards.
But yes, it could be a 10% reduction in weight responsible for some benefits. No for others though. Within the first month of keto, during which I lost 10 lbs (over 5% reduction) and experienced better skin and hair, steadier energy, better BP, better BG control and no more reactive hypoglycemia, fewer headaches, and better cognitive abilities. For me, someone with IR, benefits came quickly.I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
You did state "I think" in regard to the previous posters statements being opinion but not in regard to the, as yet, unsubstantiated statement above. You stated unequivocally that Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight loss. You are saying that as a person with IR. Keto'er =/= IR. People do it for all reasons.
Again, if you have statistical data or studies that show your statement to be true, please do share. If not, fell free to identify it as just an opinion. To generalize from the specific of your N=1 experience is faulty logic.4 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.
You know what? It's not even just the unsubstantiated claims. I realized this reading the discussion.
It's also the subtle, underlying premise: that's it's the way of eating that is responsible for everything experienced by keto eaters.
The simple fact is that losing weight is responsible for a large amount of what keto proponents attribute to keto itself and that the push back they receive is because they attribute it solely to their dietary choice.
Keto itself isn't responsible for a laundry list of health improvements that a lot of you folks claim it to be. Weight loss is. If more of you stopped with that ish, I think there'd be a lot less push back AND woo voting.
I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
My osteopath would not agree with you in most cases. His mantra is that for every 10% reduction in body weight, all kinds of things improve without taking any additional steps in overweight and obese people based on blood tests. The operative word is "most" people. In some people, there are health issues that will resolve with keto even if they don't lose weight.
So I think your use of the bolded phrase above is just plain not accurate. I'd be happy to look at any statistical or study data that indicates otherwise with an open mind. Honestly though, this is the kind of unsubstantiated(so far) claim that causes non keto folks to be extremely skeptical. I just don't know how you can make claims of "often" or "usually" without data to back it up. So, it just goes into the realm of a questionable claim based on subjective opinion that gets challenged.
ETA: It makes a huge difference in terms of perception for me when these kinds of general claims across a population aren't made and someone just says something like, "keto diet seems to improve my health in the following ways that I didn't experience when eating higher carb. It works for me." Either that or back up the claims from the get go because you can pretty much count on the fact that if they sound suspicious they are going to get challenged. And that doesn't just apply to keto threads. Body fat threads with claims get the same treatment as do Vegan threads or "I've replaced fat with muscle in 2 weeks" threads. Most people prefer to deal in proof and fact and not just conjecture.
I think the one exception was be BG control in diabetes or those with IR.
Actually, BG control can be seen quickly even without keto. Managing carbs at the ideal level for the individual (anywhere from keto levels to moderate levels) and exercise will frequently bring BG under control before the weight loss even becomes visible.3 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.
You know what? It's not even just the unsubstantiated claims. I realized this reading the discussion.
It's also the subtle, underlying premise: that's it's the way of eating that is responsible for everything experienced by keto eaters.
The simple fact is that losing weight is responsible for a large amount of what keto proponents attribute to keto itself and that the push back they receive is because they attribute it solely to their dietary choice.
Keto itself isn't responsible for a laundry list of health improvements that a lot of you folks claim it to be. Weight loss is. If more of you stopped with that ish, I think there'd be a lot less push back AND woo voting.
I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
As mmapags said, it takes a mere 10% reduction in weight to see benefits.
Additionally, many dieters experience relief of many symptoms simply by no longer OVEReating. The benefits have nothing to do with how they are eating, it has to do with eating less.
I believe that you have formed your view is the one that's opinion based, not mine.
Mine is an opinion, which is why I wrote "I think" instead of "a fact". It is based on my own experiences and what I have heard from other low carbers who are using the diet to address health issues on the Low Carber Daily boards.
But yes, it could be a 10% reduction in weight responsible for some benefits. No for others though. Within the first month of keto, during which I lost 10 lbs (over 5% reduction) and experienced better skin and hair, steadier energy, better BP, better BG control and no more reactive hypoglycemia, fewer headaches, and better cognitive abilities. For me, someone with IR, benefits came quickly.
Within 1 month of exercising and calorie restriction (7 pound loss, which was a 2% reduction in weight), I experienced relief of my depression, less joint pain, better sleep, and relief of GERD.
Benefits came quickly for me as well.
It seems over and over again in your posts that you seem to need to make some sort of assertion that keto is superior in some way, and that is the crux of the ongoing problems and push back that low carb adherents get on these boards.
There, I said it.
Why? Why does it have to be so? It's great that you have all these wonderful experiences with keto, but you know what? Everyone who has lost weight or gotten fit has a story to share about something wonderful happening to them.
Can't we all just enjoy having had something wonderful happen to us without there having to be a winner? We're all winners, you know.14 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.
You know what? It's not even just the unsubstantiated claims. I realized this reading the discussion.
It's also the subtle, underlying premise: that's it's the way of eating that is responsible for everything experienced by keto eaters.
The simple fact is that losing weight is responsible for a large amount of what keto proponents attribute to keto itself and that the push back they receive is because they attribute it solely to their dietary choice.
Keto itself isn't responsible for a laundry list of health improvements that a lot of you folks claim it to be. Weight loss is. If more of you stopped with that ish, I think there'd be a lot less push back AND woo voting.
I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
As mmapags said, it takes a mere 10% reduction in weight to see benefits.
Additionally, many dieters experience relief of many symptoms simply by no longer OVEReating. The benefits have nothing to do with how they are eating, it has to do with eating less.
I believe that you have formed your view is the one that's opinion based, not mine.
Mine is an opinion, which is why I wrote "I think" instead of "a fact". It is based on my own experiences and what I have heard from other low carbers who are using the diet to address health issues on the Low Carber Daily boards.
But yes, it could be a 10% reduction in weight responsible for some benefits. No for others though. Within the first month of keto, during which I lost 10 lbs (over 5% reduction) and experienced better skin and hair, steadier energy, better BP, better BG control and no more reactive hypoglycemia, fewer headaches, and better cognitive abilities. For me, someone with IR, benefits came quickly.I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
You did state "I think" in regard to the previous posters statements being opinion but not in regard to the, as yet, unsubstantiated statement above. You stated unequivocally that Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight loss. You are saying that as a person with IR. Keto'er =/= IR. People do it for all reasons.
Again, if you have statistical data or studies that show your statement to be true, please do share. If not, fell free to identify it as just an opinion. To generalize from the specific of your N=1 experience is faulty logic.
You stated unequivocally we can reap health benefits from not overeating regardless of diet
If you have statistical data or studies to show your statements to be true, please do share. If not feel free to identify it as just an opinion. To generalize from the specifics of your N=1 experience is faulty logic
Rants don't get anyone off the hook for what they say reguardless of the thumbs up or woo birds. Although I share your opinion of reaping health benefits from losing weight you are just as guilty of making false claims as the people you seem intent to browbeat
This thread is supposed to be about the pros and cons of keto...meaning it's for people who are or were on the keto diet and the positives and negatives...not anyone's opinion about the keto diet. I have yet to see any of the keyboard commandos actually participating in the topic... it's seems like theyre only here to instigate. It's really too bad there isn't a monitor around to keep this thread on topic because the only reason I am following this thread is to see pros and cons of keto.
As I am an adult as everyone here should be...I am perfectly capable of deciding to validity of any claims made as anyone else here should be as well.14 -
emailmehere1122 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.
You know what? It's not even just the unsubstantiated claims. I realized this reading the discussion.
It's also the subtle, underlying premise: that's it's the way of eating that is responsible for everything experienced by keto eaters.
The simple fact is that losing weight is responsible for a large amount of what keto proponents attribute to keto itself and that the push back they receive is because they attribute it solely to their dietary choice.
Keto itself isn't responsible for a laundry list of health improvements that a lot of you folks claim it to be. Weight loss is. If more of you stopped with that ish, I think there'd be a lot less push back AND woo voting.
I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
As mmapags said, it takes a mere 10% reduction in weight to see benefits.
Additionally, many dieters experience relief of many symptoms simply by no longer OVEReating. The benefits have nothing to do with how they are eating, it has to do with eating less.
I believe that you have formed your view is the one that's opinion based, not mine.
Mine is an opinion, which is why I wrote "I think" instead of "a fact". It is based on my own experiences and what I have heard from other low carbers who are using the diet to address health issues on the Low Carber Daily boards.
But yes, it could be a 10% reduction in weight responsible for some benefits. No for others though. Within the first month of keto, during which I lost 10 lbs (over 5% reduction) and experienced better skin and hair, steadier energy, better BP, better BG control and no more reactive hypoglycemia, fewer headaches, and better cognitive abilities. For me, someone with IR, benefits came quickly.I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
You did state "I think" in regard to the previous posters statements being opinion but not in regard to the, as yet, unsubstantiated statement above. You stated unequivocally that Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight loss. You are saying that as a person with IR. Keto'er =/= IR. People do it for all reasons.
Again, if you have statistical data or studies that show your statement to be true, please do share. If not, fell free to identify it as just an opinion. To generalize from the specific of your N=1 experience is faulty logic.
You stated unequivocally we can reap health benefits from not overeating regardless of diet
If you have statistical data or studies to show your statements to be true, please do share. If not feel free to identify it as just an opinion. To generalize from the specifics of your N=1 experience is faulty logic
Rants don't get anyone off the hook for what they say reguardless of the thumbs up or woo birds. Although I share your opinion of reaping health benefits from losing weight you are just as guilty of making false claims as the people you seem intent to browbeat
This thread is supposed to be about the pros and cons of keto...meaning it's for people who are or were on the keto diet and the positives and negatives...not anyone's opinion about the keto diet. I have yet to see any of the keyboard commandos actually participating in the topic... it's seems like theyre only here to instigate. It's really too bad there isn't a monitor around to keep this thread on topic because the only reason I am following this thread is to see pros and cons of keto.
As I am an adult as everyone here should be...I am perfectly capable of deciding to validity of any claims made as anyone else here should be as well.
He wasn't the person who made the post you seem to have an issue with.
I was.
And I have no intention of derailing a thread you can't seem to read posts in context in.
I'm not going to defend something I said that you're twisting the meaning of just to satisfy you.8 -
emailmehere1122 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.
You know what? It's not even just the unsubstantiated claims. I realized this reading the discussion.
It's also the subtle, underlying premise: that's it's the way of eating that is responsible for everything experienced by keto eaters.
The simple fact is that losing weight is responsible for a large amount of what keto proponents attribute to keto itself and that the push back they receive is because they attribute it solely to their dietary choice.
Keto itself isn't responsible for a laundry list of health improvements that a lot of you folks claim it to be. Weight loss is. If more of you stopped with that ish, I think there'd be a lot less push back AND woo voting.
I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
As mmapags said, it takes a mere 10% reduction in weight to see benefits.
Additionally, many dieters experience relief of many symptoms simply by no longer OVEReating. The benefits have nothing to do with how they are eating, it has to do with eating less.
I believe that you have formed your view is the one that's opinion based, not mine.
Mine is an opinion, which is why I wrote "I think" instead of "a fact". It is based on my own experiences and what I have heard from other low carbers who are using the diet to address health issues on the Low Carber Daily boards.
But yes, it could be a 10% reduction in weight responsible for some benefits. No for others though. Within the first month of keto, during which I lost 10 lbs (over 5% reduction) and experienced better skin and hair, steadier energy, better BP, better BG control and no more reactive hypoglycemia, fewer headaches, and better cognitive abilities. For me, someone with IR, benefits came quickly.I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
You did state "I think" in regard to the previous posters statements being opinion but not in regard to the, as yet, unsubstantiated statement above. You stated unequivocally that Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight loss. You are saying that as a person with IR. Keto'er =/= IR. People do it for all reasons.
Again, if you have statistical data or studies that show your statement to be true, please do share. If not, fell free to identify it as just an opinion. To generalize from the specific of your N=1 experience is faulty logic.
You stated unequivocally we can reap health benefits from not overeating regardless of diet
If you have statistical data or studies to show your statements to be true, please do share. If not feel free to identify it as just an opinion. To generalize from the specifics of your N=1 experience is faulty logic
Rants don't get anyone off the hook for what they say reguardless of the thumbs up or woo birds. Although I share your opinion of reaping health benefits from losing weight you are just as guilty of making false claims as the people you seem intent to browbeat
This thread is supposed to be about the pros and cons of keto...meaning it's for people who are or were on the keto diet and the positives and negatives...not anyone's opinion about the keto diet. I have yet to see any of the keyboard commandos actually participating in the topic... it's seems like theyre only here to instigate. It's really too bad there isn't a monitor around to keep this thread on topic because the only reason I am following this thread is to see pros and cons of keto.
As I am an adult as everyone here should be...I am perfectly capable of deciding to validity of any claims made as anyone else here should be as well.
Good thing I bookmarked this. I seem to need it every other day on here.
"There was convincing evidence that energy balance is critical to maintaining healthy
body weight and ensuring optimal nutrient intakes, regardless of macronutrient
distribution expressed in energy percentage (%E)."
http://foris.fao.org/preview/25553-0ece4cb94ac52f9a25af77ca5cfba7a8c.pdf11 -
emailmehere1122 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.
You know what? It's not even just the unsubstantiated claims. I realized this reading the discussion.
It's also the subtle, underlying premise: that's it's the way of eating that is responsible for everything experienced by keto eaters.
The simple fact is that losing weight is responsible for a large amount of what keto proponents attribute to keto itself and that the push back they receive is because they attribute it solely to their dietary choice.
Keto itself isn't responsible for a laundry list of health improvements that a lot of you folks claim it to be. Weight loss is. If more of you stopped with that ish, I think there'd be a lot less push back AND woo voting.
I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
As mmapags said, it takes a mere 10% reduction in weight to see benefits.
Additionally, many dieters experience relief of many symptoms simply by no longer OVEReating. The benefits have nothing to do with how they are eating, it has to do with eating less.
I believe that you have formed your view is the one that's opinion based, not mine.
Mine is an opinion, which is why I wrote "I think" instead of "a fact". It is based on my own experiences and what I have heard from other low carbers who are using the diet to address health issues on the Low Carber Daily boards.
But yes, it could be a 10% reduction in weight responsible for some benefits. No for others though. Within the first month of keto, during which I lost 10 lbs (over 5% reduction) and experienced better skin and hair, steadier energy, better BP, better BG control and no more reactive hypoglycemia, fewer headaches, and better cognitive abilities. For me, someone with IR, benefits came quickly.I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
You did state "I think" in regard to the previous posters statements being opinion but not in regard to the, as yet, unsubstantiated statement above. You stated unequivocally that Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight loss. You are saying that as a person with IR. Keto'er =/= IR. People do it for all reasons.
Again, if you have statistical data or studies that show your statement to be true, please do share. If not, fell free to identify it as just an opinion. To generalize from the specific of your N=1 experience is faulty logic.
You stated unequivocally we can reap health benefits from not overeating regardless of diet
If you have statistical data or studies to show your statements to be true, please do share. If not feel free to identify it as just an opinion. To generalize from the specifics of your N=1 experience is faulty logic
Rants don't get anyone off the hook for what they say reguardless of the thumbs up or woo birds. Although I share your opinion of reaping health benefits from losing weight you are just as guilty of making false claims as the people you seem intent to browbeat
This thread is supposed to be about the pros and cons of keto...meaning it's for people who are or were on the keto diet and the positives and negatives...not anyone's opinion about the keto diet. I have yet to see any of the keyboard commandos actually participating in the topic... it's seems like theyre only here to instigate. It's really too bad there isn't a monitor around to keep this thread on topic because the only reason I am following this thread is to see pros and cons of keto.
As I am an adult as everyone here should be...I am perfectly capable of deciding to validity of any claims made as anyone else here should be as well.
My post from the first page of this thread:Pros:
-Can increases insulin sensitivity in the insulin resistant.
-Can help some with sweets cravings
Cons:
-Unnecessary if you don't have either of the 2 issues above as keto has never been proven to have a metabolic advantage in any study where protein and calories were held constant.
-Highly restrictive leading to long term compliance issues.
-Doesn't develop successful long term eating habits unless you plan on doing forever (most aren't)."
My post from page 4 of this thread:Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.
A post of mine from page 5 of this thread that shares a resource regarding possible drawbacks to keto diet for athletic performance:Interesting article that popped up tonight that relates to this discussion. Article is by James Fell. Includes input from Alan Aragon and Susan Kliener.
http://www.bodyforwife.com/keto-and-low-carb-diets-kill-performance/
Includes multiple studies regarding keto diets and athletic performance.
Quote from the article.
"Susan Kleiner shared with me a screen shot of research examining ketogenic diet and athletic performance. Seventeen of the studies showed a performance decrease, and only two showed a performance increase, but both of those “performance increase” studies came with caveats (intensity was only moderate / carbohydrate loading for performance was possible / no muscle biopsies to prove ketogenic state)."
Athletic performance may not be important to all but if you are working out, the higher the intensity you can achieve, the greater the calorie burn.
So, you misidentified me as the one who stated a certain position and asked me to defend it and you somehow missed all of the above posts that addressed the topic of the thread. You also characterized post like mine as rants and insinuated that I'm a "keyboard commando". Lol, ironic that! A suggestion might be that you actually read more closely before you make such accusations.
Edited to add: It seems that when you are not getting confirmation of your thought process you result to name calling and ad hominem attacks instead of debating in the realm of facts, ideas and information. Eg. "rants", "keyboard commandos" "woo birds" .10 -
-
stevencloser wrote: »Keto is how much of mankind lived for tens of thousands of years.
It is one of the most natural ways of eating for the human body and the body works best on ketones not glucose, for example your heart and brain.
Pros:
Loads of fiber, vitamins and minerals from the high intake of leafy green vegetables and other low carb vegetables. I never ate so many veggies in my life until I went on Keto!
Sharpened clarity of thinking - no more brain fog due to too many carbs.
Ward off the risk of cancer with very low carbs.
No hungry feelings anymore, because there are no longer any swings of insulin and blood sugar as I used to experience on a carb based diet.
Sustained energy throughout the day, lots of energy!
No longer craving the things I used to need a fix for, like ice cream, chocolate, and so on.
Cons:
You do need to make an effort to keep some variety going across different meals, if you're prone to getting bored. Same with lots of things in life really.
Nope.
Did you just say "nope" to what someone else experienced while doing low carb? Are you calling him a liar?5 -
KeithWhiteJr wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Keto is how much of mankind lived for tens of thousands of years.
It is one of the most natural ways of eating for the human body and the body works best on ketones not glucose, for example your heart and brain.
Pros:
Loads of fiber, vitamins and minerals from the high intake of leafy green vegetables and other low carb vegetables. I never ate so many veggies in my life until I went on Keto!
Sharpened clarity of thinking - no more brain fog due to too many carbs.
Ward off the risk of cancer with very low carbs.
No hungry feelings anymore, because there are no longer any swings of insulin and blood sugar as I used to experience on a carb based diet.
Sustained energy throughout the day, lots of energy!
No longer craving the things I used to need a fix for, like ice cream, chocolate, and so on.
Cons:
You do need to make an effort to keep some variety going across different meals, if you're prone to getting bored. Same with lots of things in life really.
Nope.
Did you just say "nope" to what someone else experienced while doing low carb? Are you calling him a liar?
That's not what I got from it.
Maybe re-read the post he responded to.
The whole post.4 -
KeithWhiteJr wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Keto is how much of mankind lived for tens of thousands of years.
It is one of the most natural ways of eating for the human body and the body works best on ketones not glucose, for example your heart and brain.
Pros:
Loads of fiber, vitamins and minerals from the high intake of leafy green vegetables and other low carb vegetables. I never ate so many veggies in my life until I went on Keto!
Sharpened clarity of thinking - no more brain fog due to too many carbs.
Ward off the risk of cancer with very low carbs.
No hungry feelings anymore, because there are no longer any swings of insulin and blood sugar as I used to experience on a carb based diet.
Sustained energy throughout the day, lots of energy!
No longer craving the things I used to need a fix for, like ice cream, chocolate, and so on.
Cons:
You do need to make an effort to keep some variety going across different meals, if you're prone to getting bored. Same with lots of things in life really.
Nope.
Did you just say "nope" to what someone else experienced while doing low carb? Are you calling him a liar?
Read the very first line of that post he was replying to in particular.1 -
emailmehere1122 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.
You know what? It's not even just the unsubstantiated claims. I realized this reading the discussion.
It's also the subtle, underlying premise: that's it's the way of eating that is responsible for everything experienced by keto eaters.
The simple fact is that losing weight is responsible for a large amount of what keto proponents attribute to keto itself and that the push back they receive is because they attribute it solely to their dietary choice.
Keto itself isn't responsible for a laundry list of health improvements that a lot of you folks claim it to be. Weight loss is. If more of you stopped with that ish, I think there'd be a lot less push back AND woo voting.
I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
As mmapags said, it takes a mere 10% reduction in weight to see benefits.
Additionally, many dieters experience relief of many symptoms simply by no longer OVEReating. The benefits have nothing to do with how they are eating, it has to do with eating less.
I believe that you have formed your view is the one that's opinion based, not mine.
Mine is an opinion, which is why I wrote "I think" instead of "a fact". It is based on my own experiences and what I have heard from other low carbers who are using the diet to address health issues on the Low Carber Daily boards.
But yes, it could be a 10% reduction in weight responsible for some benefits. No for others though. Within the first month of keto, during which I lost 10 lbs (over 5% reduction) and experienced better skin and hair, steadier energy, better BP, better BG control and no more reactive hypoglycemia, fewer headaches, and better cognitive abilities. For me, someone with IR, benefits came quickly.I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
You did state "I think" in regard to the previous posters statements being opinion but not in regard to the, as yet, unsubstantiated statement above. You stated unequivocally that Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight loss. You are saying that as a person with IR. Keto'er =/= IR. People do it for all reasons.
Again, if you have statistical data or studies that show your statement to be true, please do share. If not, fell free to identify it as just an opinion. To generalize from the specific of your N=1 experience is faulty logic.
You stated unequivocally we can reap health benefits from not overeating regardless of diet
If you have statistical data or studies to show your statements to be true, please do share. If not feel free to identify it as just an opinion. To generalize from the specifics of your N=1 experience is faulty logic
Rants don't get anyone off the hook for what they say reguardless of the thumbs up or woo birds. Although I share your opinion of reaping health benefits from losing weight you are just as guilty of making false claims as the people you seem intent to browbeat
This thread is supposed to be about the pros and cons of keto...meaning it's for people who are or were on the keto diet and the positives and negatives...not anyone's opinion about the keto diet. I have yet to see any of the keyboard commandos actually participating in the topic... it's seems like theyre only here to instigate. It's really too bad there isn't a monitor around to keep this thread on topic because the only reason I am following this thread is to see pros and cons of keto.
As I am an adult as everyone here should be...I am perfectly capable of deciding to validity of any claims made as anyone else here should be as well.
My post from the first page of this thread:Pros:
-Can increases insulin sensitivity in the insulin resistant.
-Can help some with sweets cravings
Cons:
-Unnecessary if you don't have either of the 2 issues above as keto has never been proven to have a metabolic advantage in any study where protein and calories were held constant.
-Highly restrictive leading to long term compliance issues.
-Doesn't develop successful long term eating habits unless you plan on doing forever (most aren't)."
My post from page 4 of this thread:Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.
A post of mine from page 5 of this thread that shares a resource regarding possible drawbacks to keto diet for athletic performance:Interesting article that popped up tonight that relates to this discussion. Article is by James Fell. Includes input from Alan Aragon and Susan Kliener.
http://www.bodyforwife.com/keto-and-low-carb-diets-kill-performance/
Includes multiple studies regarding keto diets and athletic performance.
Quote from the article.
"Susan Kleiner shared with me a screen shot of research examining ketogenic diet and athletic performance. Seventeen of the studies showed a performance decrease, and only two showed a performance increase, but both of those “performance increase” studies came with caveats (intensity was only moderate / carbohydrate loading for performance was possible / no muscle biopsies to prove ketogenic state)."
Athletic performance may not be important to all but if you are working out, the higher the intensity you can achieve, the greater the calorie burn.
So, you misidentified me as the one who stated a certain position and asked me to defend it and you somehow missed all of the above posts that addressed the topic of the thread. You also characterized post like mine as rants and insinuated that I'm a "keyboard commando". Lol, ironic that! A suggestion might be that you actually read more closely before you make such accusations.
Edited to add: It seems that when you are not getting confirmation of your thought process you result to name calling and ad hominem attacks instead of debating in the realm of facts, ideas and information. Eg. "rants", "keyboard commandos" "woo birds" .
I do apologize to you I did misidentify you.
3 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.
You know what? It's not even just the unsubstantiated claims. I realized this reading the discussion.
It's also the subtle, underlying premise: that's it's the way of eating that is responsible for everything experienced by keto eaters.
The simple fact is that losing weight is responsible for a large amount of what keto proponents attribute to keto itself and that the push back they receive is because they attribute it solely to their dietary choice.
Keto itself isn't responsible for a laundry list of health improvements that a lot of you folks claim it to be. Weight loss is. If more of you stopped with that ish, I think there'd be a lot less push back AND woo voting.
I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
As mmapags said, it takes a mere 10% reduction in weight to see benefits.
Additionally, many dieters experience relief of many symptoms simply by no longer OVEReating. The benefits have nothing to do with how they are eating, it has to do with eating less.
I believe that you have formed your view is the one that's opinion based, not mine.
Paragraph that starts with additionally.. I don't have to twist it you clearly state it has nothing to do with how they are eating it has to do with eating less.
I've already read the benefits of lowering calories but I've never seen or read anything stateing how someone is eating doesn't matter... other than your statement which I'm clearly not twisting.
ETA
This thread is about the pros and cons of keto....I am just pointing out people inadvertently say things and no one likes to be called out
So if anyone is brave enough to share their experiences with keto perhaps they will be allowed to do so without being harassed
10 -
emailmehere1122 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.
You know what? It's not even just the unsubstantiated claims. I realized this reading the discussion.
It's also the subtle, underlying premise: that's it's the way of eating that is responsible for everything experienced by keto eaters.
The simple fact is that losing weight is responsible for a large amount of what keto proponents attribute to keto itself and that the push back they receive is because they attribute it solely to their dietary choice.
Keto itself isn't responsible for a laundry list of health improvements that a lot of you folks claim it to be. Weight loss is. If more of you stopped with that ish, I think there'd be a lot less push back AND woo voting.
I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
As mmapags said, it takes a mere 10% reduction in weight to see benefits.
Additionally, many dieters experience relief of many symptoms simply by no longer OVEReating. The benefits have nothing to do with how they are eating, it has to do with eating less.
I believe that you have formed your view is the one that's opinion based, not mine.
Paragraph that starts with additionally.. I don't have to twist it you clearly state it has nothing to do with how they are eating it has to do with eating less.
I've already read the benefits of lowering calories but I've never seen or read anything stateing how someone is eating doesn't matter... other than your statement which I'm clearly not twisting.
ETA
This thread is about the pros and cons of keto....I am just pointing out false claims are made by all and no one likes to be called out
So if anyone is brave enough to share their experiences with keto perhaps they will be allowed to do so without being harassed
(1) Hardly requires bravery. I shared some of my experience on page one, have shared in other threads, no one has ever reacted negatively (except for some keto-ers who claim my carbs were too high), probably because I don't claim keto is healthier in general (it's not, unless you have epilepsy in some cases or, perhaps, T2D that is really difficult to control in other ways).
(2) Saying that people generally experience positive health benefits from reducing calories and no longer overeating, if they were in the habit of overeating, and from even the very beginning of weight loss, regardless of the diet (assuming they needed to lose weight), is NOT the same thing as saying that what you eat does not matter. I saw GottaBurnEm saying the first, and you arguing against the second (which she did not say).
(3) I deeply believe that diet matters (although I think other things, like being at a healthy BF% and being active, probably matter more). What I do not believe is that being keto is "healthier" than not being keto. One can have a healthy or non healthy diet whether eating keto or not.
Back to my experience doing keto. I enjoyed it pretty well. I find low carbing tends to make it easier for me to stick within my calories, especially when (as lately) I've struggled with emotional eating. I also find that keto, because it is so strict and because it is kind of interesting to me as an experiment, can act as a way to keep myself interested and focused on eating according to plan (but no more so than any other dietary experiment).
I did keto for a while this late winter/spring and mostly enjoyed it, but did not find that it had any added benefit for me (other than the interest bit) than merely low carbing (around 100-120 g, which is how I naturally tend to like to eat). So pros: it was an interesting experiment, and kicked me out of a rut, and I may well do it again over the winter. Cons: for me there's no particular reason to do it, I found it was a bit of a limit on the vegetables I liked to eat (especially if I'd tried to do under 50 g total or under 20 g, rather than focusing on under 40 g net), and obviously prevented me from eating most beans and lentils (I did have some black soybeans), fruit, and tubers, among other foods I enjoy and think make up part of a healthful meal. I also found myself eating a bit more meat than I normally would. I quit doing it in summer because I try to eat locally and I was missing out on local in season fruit, and then corn, and right now I am overrun (from the box I get from a local farm) with lots of winter squash and (more problematic for keto) potatoes and sweet potatoes. I find I cannot really commit to eating seasonally and as varied a diet as possible (re produce) and do keto. But keto is more realistic for me in the winter.9 -
Regarding the bolded, different perspective for different folks. For me, one of the things I like about forums, and I participate in a couple of diet and fitness ones as well as a couple if musician ones, is that when misinformation is stated, it is challenged. I have had a lot of false assumptions and bought into a lot of the program du jour be it diet fitness or instrumental technique (And yes, musicians can be call each other out regularly. Talk about some egos!!)emailmehere1122 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.
You know what? It's not even just the unsubstantiated claims. I realized this reading the discussion.
It's also the subtle, underlying premise: that's it's the way of eating that is responsible for everything experienced by keto eaters.
The simple fact is that losing weight is responsible for a large amount of what keto proponents attribute to keto itself and that the push back they receive is because they attribute it solely to their dietary choice.
Keto itself isn't responsible for a laundry list of health improvements that a lot of you folks claim it to be. Weight loss is. If more of you stopped with that ish, I think there'd be a lot less push back AND woo voting.
I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
As mmapags said, it takes a mere 10% reduction in weight to see benefits.
Additionally, many dieters experience relief of many symptoms simply by no longer OVEReating. The benefits have nothing to do with how they are eating, it has to do with eating less.
I believe that you have formed your view is the one that's opinion based, not mine.
Paragraph that starts with additionally.. I don't have to twist it you clearly state it has nothing to do with how they are eating it has to do with eating less.
I've already read the benefits of lowering calories but I've never seen or read anything stateing how someone is eating doesn't matter... other than your statement which I'm clearly not twisting.
ETA
This thread is about the pros and cons of keto....I am just pointing out people inadvertently say things and no one likes to be called out
So if anyone is brave enough to share their experiences with keto perhaps they will be allowed to do so without being harassed
I enjoy the process of debate of ideas and I have learned a lot on here from many people who have challenged my ideas and opinions. Adzak, Ninerbuff, AnvilHead, Nony_Mouse and Heybales just to name a few. As well as some that are no longer here or not active. Through this thread, I have not seen people attacking keto practitioners and I can't imagine why anyone would feel attacked to state their experience, as several have, as just that, their experience and not extrapolate that their experience applies to many or most that do whatever they do.
I have seen, and made, statement supportive of keto in the right application. It is really when people make unsupported claims of benefits beyond what has been demonstrated by testing as studies that the scrutiny comes. I think that is a good thing. There are many here seeking advice and direction and what they get should be based on facts like the article I posted with multiple studies or the excellent paper for which stevencloser posted the link. If there is evidenced based info that supports some of the claims people make, they should post them.
As an example, on another forum that I participate in, there was discussion of a study. Several people had opinions of the topic at hand that were beyond the parameters of the study and engaged in some conjecture about what the data would look like if. Each finished their statement with, I think this would be the case, but I can't prove it. There is an intellectual integrity in that kind of statement that seems to be missing here when people claim benefits of whatever program is their pet one that cannot be supported.
7 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Keto is how much of mankind lived for tens of thousands of years.
It is one of the most natural ways of eating for the human body and the body works best on ketones not glucose, for example your heart and brain.
Pros:
Loads of fiber, vitamins and minerals from the high intake of leafy green vegetables and other low carb vegetables. I never ate so many veggies in my life until I went on Keto!
Sharpened clarity of thinking - no more brain fog due to too many carbs.
Ward off the risk of cancer with very low carbs.
No hungry feelings anymore, because there are no longer any swings of insulin and blood sugar as I used to experience on a carb based diet.
Sustained energy throughout the day, lots of energy!
No longer craving the things I used to need a fix for, like ice cream, chocolate, and so on.
Cons:
You do need to make an effort to keep some variety going across different meals, if you're prone to getting bored. Same with lots of things in life really.
Nope.
Did you just say "nope" to what someone else experienced while doing low carb? Are you calling him a liar?
Read the very first line of that post he was replying to in particular.
And some of the following ones. Actually, most of it. I particularly am always baffled when someone on keto says they never ate as many vegetables as they are on keto. Not eating low carb wasn't your problem if that's the case.8 -
emailmehere1122 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I am Keto, don't have bad breath, don't eat loads of meat (many things contain protein) and the fat in my diet is not all dairy (fish for example has lots of healthy fat). I eat veggies and fruit every day but as stated by another member here...you have to choose your foods and manage your diet plan and the carb by making choices. Even if your counting calories, your making decisions and choices every day about what you eat. My optimal calorie count is in the same health range recommended by many plans and even MFP at 1300-1600.
Many Keto/low carb recipes are similar to gluten free recipes. Gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies. This tends to help Keto followers to also improve similar ailments. There is not a think I eat that I cant find a keto based/log carb recipe to substitute. My family can rarely tell the difference between those recipes and other less healthy forms. This week, I have had a piece of NY Baked Cheese cake for dessert, everyday! last week it was Chocolate cookies...the week before, Peanut butter Cookies. I do use a couple of non white flower substitutes when baking but Walmart and Kroger and Publix all carry them, all the time. I had the most amazing parmesan crusted Talipa last night with green beans. I grow a 1ac organic veggie garden and eat everything from tomatoes, egg plant and cabbage from it.
20g of carbs is not required for ketosis. It can be 30-40-50. It just depends on your goals. What is required is a specific balance of carbs/fat/protein to accomplish ketosis. Just loading on protein and being low in carbs in not the process. The web contains several good calculators to help you determine the marcos that work for you height/age/body fat content and your goals. They will also tell you the calorie counts for optimal results. You can actually play with scenarios in these calculators to tweak it to something that fits your life style. In fact, as you body fat decreases, you should recalculate because it affects ketosis and your macros.
Managing my weight and building muscle (with exercise of course) has improved for me, so much on the Keto Diet.
The bold is only true in those with celiac and allergies to wheat; similar to nuts or dairy. Outside of that, it doesn't cause chronic inflammation. Even more so, whole grains has actually been shown to improve health.
She said gluten is associated with inflammation and allergies ( which is true just like nuts and diary )...not it causes inflammation and allergies... and she got wooed and you got thumbs up...just like they said it would happen. I'm not a keto person but they are right...if they try to have a thread in here they get shredded
I am very well aware of gluten. And it still not associated with inflammation (unless you take the advice from wheat belly). I have quite a bit of experience with gluten free and have done a good amount of research. My wife has an autonomic disorder called POTS. Anecdotally, people have seen improvements by going gluten free; my wife was gluten free for 4 years. Unfortunately, there is very little actual science out there for gluten free. And that may because they havent developed the correct measures or techniques to evaluate it. But for the general populous, there isnt current evidence to support that claim.
At best with all my wife's medical issues, i have had every single gastroenterologist tell my wife to start eating gluten again because it wasn't benefiting her and could potentially cause other issues with her diverticulitis.
I think you're missing the point of what I was trying to say. The main message I was attempting to convey was the keto people are unfairly treated. She had one word being inflammation that you disagreed with so you pulled your monitor ruler out of of the desk and rapped her across the knuckles for it. You received thumbs up and she got wooed...as expected... out of four paragraphs over one word.
With that being said she used the word "associated" with inflammation not "causes". That's a true statement for some people whether there's scientific evidence to support it or not.
Per google:
Associate: verb- "connect (someone or something) with something else in one's mind."
I associate chilli with cold weather...there is no scientific evidence linking them,nor does there have to be to associate things together,but when I think of eating chilli I also think of it being eaten during a cold time of the year
The only reasons for anyone to call her out over her statement about gluten was because they didn't comprehend it or to instigate
Ketoers aren't being unfairly treated. If they come and spout BS about how you will lose more, easier faster and don't even need to reduce your calories or that it prevents and heals any ailment under the heavens, that's when people call them out on their wrong, unfounded crap.
Totally agree! Keto can have application for some folks and is just preferred by others. But, it's some of the ridiculous unsubstantiated claims made by some (not all) keto proponents that draws fire.
You know what? It's not even just the unsubstantiated claims. I realized this reading the discussion.
It's also the subtle, underlying premise: that's it's the way of eating that is responsible for everything experienced by keto eaters.
The simple fact is that losing weight is responsible for a large amount of what keto proponents attribute to keto itself and that the push back they receive is because they attribute it solely to their dietary choice.
Keto itself isn't responsible for a laundry list of health improvements that a lot of you folks claim it to be. Weight loss is. If more of you stopped with that ish, I think there'd be a lot less push back AND woo voting.
I think the bolded is more of an opinion than a fact. Keto'ers often (usually) attain health benefits well before any substantial weight is lost when looking at many health issues. I found that was true for me. It's not always true but it is far from uncommon.
As mmapags said, it takes a mere 10% reduction in weight to see benefits.
Additionally, many dieters experience relief of many symptoms simply by no longer OVEReating. The benefits have nothing to do with how they are eating, it has to do with eating less.
I believe that you have formed your view is the one that's opinion based, not mine.
Paragraph that starts with additionally.. I don't have to twist it you clearly state it has nothing to do with how they are eating it has to do with eating less.
I've already read the benefits of lowering calories but I've never seen or read anything stateing how someone is eating doesn't matter... other than your statement which I'm clearly not twisting.
ETA
This thread is about the pros and cons of keto....I am just pointing out people inadvertently say things and no one likes to be called out
So if anyone is brave enough to share their experiences with keto perhaps they will be allowed to do so without being harassed
I cannot help how you are interpreting what I'm saying.
The context of the conversation was clear to everyone but you, apparently. You're constructing a strawman here, and I'm not going to play. I clarified what I meant for you in another post.
I made a post earlier on about the pros and cons of the diet. It requires no bravery to post about being keto. I fully support someone on any path to better health.8 -
To put this thread back on track and maybe help a few folks .... DISCLAIMER .. below are MY pros and cons based on MY experience alone. I do not claim it as a universal truth ..... YMMV, not a doctor, dont play one on TV. etc etc .....
PROS - I feel full quicker and can last for a good long time without eating.
I enjoy the food. Ive been maintaining since May and will continue to eat this way.
My anxiety and panic attacks are greatly reduced to almost non existant.
I feel clearer headed. I have a lot of energy. I dont experience wanting to take a nap after I eat like I use to.
There's more but that should give an idea.
CONS - Ya. dragon breath is real. Buy gum!
Some say sweat smells like cat pee. I dont know. I didnt experience this myself. Hubby would have divorced me if I did.
Can be expensive if you choose the grassfed/organic route. I buy what's on sale and call it good so I actually save money compared to before .
Food prep is more and cooking is pretty much a must.
Not really a good way to eat if you thrive on volume.
Hope it helps!
7 -
Catawampous wrote: »To put this thread back on track and maybe help a few folks .... DISCLAIMER .. below are MY pros and cons based on MY experience alone. I do not claim it as a universal truth ..... YMMV, not a doctor, dont play one on TV. etc etc .....
PROS - I feel full quicker and can last for a good long time without eating.
I enjoy the food. Ive been maintaining since May and will continue to eat this way.
My anxiety and panic attacks are greatly reduced to almost non existant.
I feel clearer headed. I have a lot of energy. I dont experience wanting to take a nap after I eat like I use to.
There's more but that should give an idea.
CONS - Ya. dragon breath is real. Buy gum!
Some say sweat smells like cat pee. I dont know. I didnt experience this myself. Hubby would have divorced me if I did.
Can be expensive if you choose the grassfed/organic route. I buy what's on sale and call it good so I actually save money compared to before .
Food prep is more and cooking is pretty much a must.
Not really a good way to eat if you thrive on volume.
Hope it helps!
The disclaimer is a good idea
Disclaimer:
I am not a doctor. Anything I state is based on my experience and is only my opinion. This not the debate forum so I do not wish to debate my opinion
I haven't heard the one about sweat smelling like cat pee....sounds pretty rough
Thank you for getting this thread back on topic. Hopefully nvmomketo will come back and share also. I've see her around the boards and she seems like a cheerful person. I think she's used keto to help with her diabetes so I'm sure she has some insight.
7
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