Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
What do you think about impact of the phrase 'nothing is impossible if you work hard enough' ?
shaumom
Posts: 1,003 Member
in Debate Club
1. As the phrase 'nothing is impossible if you work hard enough' is not literally true (we wouldn't tell someone who is blind that they could see if they worked hard enough, for example), what do you assume the 'real' meaning of this phrase usually is? And I'd use this for variations of this idea, too - 'you can do anything if you put your mind to it,' 'all you need is hard work in order to succeed in life,' and so on.
So...what does this phrase mean to you?
2. When you hear phrases like this used, is the general tone positive or negative, or somewhere in between?
Like, positive might be encouraging someone who is feeling like they will never meet their health goals, and reminding them that they are working hard so they are going to see results. Negative might be shaming someone who hadn't met their goals, implying that they would be doing better if they had been working harder.
3. Based on how you hear it being used most often, do you think this phrase promotes a certain type of attitude among people who exercise, and if so, is it a good one?
So...what does this phrase mean to you?
2. When you hear phrases like this used, is the general tone positive or negative, or somewhere in between?
Like, positive might be encouraging someone who is feeling like they will never meet their health goals, and reminding them that they are working hard so they are going to see results. Negative might be shaming someone who hadn't met their goals, implying that they would be doing better if they had been working harder.
3. Based on how you hear it being used most often, do you think this phrase promotes a certain type of attitude among people who exercise, and if so, is it a good one?
5
Replies
-
I think it's a negative phrase because it sets the stage for victim blaming. Not in the case of exercising, but in other areas of life - if you just TRIED harder you could focus on your schoolwork, when the real issue is ADHD, for example.
Not to sound all "PC", but it's also ableist taken at its face value. Most people can't accomplish anything, even in fitness. (I'm not saying that they can't accomplish anything at all, but rather that all goals are not reachable by most people - a very small woman might not be able to bench 600 pounds (to is what sounds like a ridiculous example to me, I have no idea if it's ridiculous or not, I'm not a lifter), and someone with a knee problem might not be able to run a 5k) And some people can't accomplish anything at all in fitness.
As a motivation turn of phrase, the whole concept falls flat to me.
I prefer Maya Angelou's quote: “You did then what you knew how to do, And when you knew better, You did better.”
It applies to everyone, when you're a beginner and can only bench the bar, you do the best you can. When you are an experienced lifter and can bench 600 pounds, you're still doing the best you can, but better than you used to.
It also applies to diet and nutrition, and just about everything in life. It's kind of my life motto.28 -
It is more negative than positive for me too. I'm more likely to think "But...", than to be spurred to action by it.1
-
"You can do anything you set your mind to" or "Nothing is impossible if you work hard enough" is a strange one. On one hand, I find it to be a empowering phrase reminding me that I am in control of my life and what I do with it if I'm willing to put in the work for what I want. On the other hand, "hard work" is problematic to me because of the luck factor and how often people succeed when they get lucky AND work hard.
Similarly, I find it can be used both ways. Complaining without intent to fix your problems is a big pet peeve of mine, and I often find myself thinking towards the other person, "You can change/do anything you want if you want to," which has a similar meaning. You can either fix the situation or endure the situation generally, depending on the amount of work you want to put in. On the flip side, I think this sort of validation coming from the right person could be beneficial to anyone--a reminder that they believe in the power of you.
Generally, I believe that if you put in the work, you will reap the reward. This applies to fitness, school, relationships, nutrition, you name it. The trick is you got to do the work everyday, and I think that's where people fall flat usually.5 -
Generally I only hear that said by people who have been given every gift in the world in terms of money , intellect, privileged, ECT.
Hard work is necessary but not sufficient for many types of success. Also some people dont have to work for their success. Some have to work a lot harder for a lot less sucess.
More realistic is work ethic will pay off over time.13 -
I'm not a fan.
I agree that it's usually a statement made by the privileged.
I think that some people stop themselves short of their potential and don't work hard enough, and I think other people work their butts off and achieve their bests and fall far short of what other people deem to be some sort of standard.
I think that anyone looking from the outside in can't really tell the difference between these two types of people, so it's best just to mind your own business and keep focused on your own goals.6 -
I find it trite, and smug.
Plus, it reminds me of the end of the 80s movie "The Boy who could Fly", which ended with "if you live long enough, and believe hard enough, anything can happen", which irritated me as a kid because no matter how long you live or how hard you believe, no one is going to be able to fly (y'know, without a plane or a jetpack or whatnot).8 -
That phrase is why their are thousands of bad demos on YouTube by people who can't sing
And it's patently untrue. There are obstacles (biological, societal, legal) to some people that will supercede their best efforts.12 -
I like the way Tiana's dad put it best: You wish and dream with all your little heart. But you remember, that old star can only take you part of the way. You got to help out with some hard work of your own.2
-
Trite but optimistic.2
-
I will never be center fielder for the Yankees no matter how hard I try. LOTS of things are impossible, no matter how hard you try.8
-
General consensus seems to be on the negative side, I think. That is actually where I tend to view it as well.
Mostly because while I have heard people say that it is used for encouragement, when they defend the idea or the idiom.
But I mostly see it in practice used as a shaming technique, or used by those who have very little understanding or knowledge of someone's experiences or situation, but seem to think they should be giving this type of advice.
I really like that Angelou quote, though - haven't seen that one before!4 -
I don't mind it because "within the limits of physical reality" is a codicil my mind puts on EVERYTHING as a scientist. The phrase clearly doesn't mean you can turn into a ball of incandescent gas if you try hard enough. But it does handily summarize the truth that excellence and achievement of a great many things require a LOT of effort and perserverence. These traits are being increasingly disapproved of in common discourse now.
9 -
This is complete bogus and self delusion. Plus the laws of physics are a massive boundary.1. As the phrase 'nothing is impossible if you work hard enough' is not literally true (we wouldn't tell someone who is blind that they could see if they worked hard enough, for example), what do you assume the 'real' meaning of this phrase usually is? And I'd use this for variations of this idea, too - 'you can do anything if you put your mind to it,' 'all you need is hard work in order to succeed in life,' and so on.
So...what does this phrase mean to you?
People overestimate what is possible and it sets you up for failure. It lets people think that by saying that anything is possible that those that don't want it or can't are failures. It also means that people will get easily discouraged as most things take A LOT of effort, work and dedication. It is simply not always achievable with life. Plus it many ways it is complete bogus. No way I'd ever be a say olympic gymnast. I am not built that way, I don't have the base talent to build upon and even with hard work it would have been impossible for me.
That said I do feel that hard work/training/effort to achieve something you want is a good thing. Nothing comes completely for free. You have to do something an most people are capable of a lot. Self belief is paramount, Self delusion is what comes with this phrase IMO. Two different things.
We can't all be an Elon Musk or Steve Jobs. What they do/did is special They did work often incredibly hard but their story is also peppered with a lot of luck of the being at the right place at the right time meeting the just perfect people type. And yes overcoming obstacles too but the luck part is underestimated. Working hard is important, but it is never ever the whole story.
Totally negative IMO it sets up for failure and victim blaming. It basically states you failed because you did not work hard enough, which is often complete b*llsh*t2. When you hear phrases like this used, is the general tone positive or negative, or somewhere in between?
See answer to 23. Based on how you hear it being used most often, do you think this phrase promotes a certain type of attitude among people who exercise, and if so, is it a good one?
3 -
I don't mind it because "within the limits of physical reality" is a codicil my mind puts on EVERYTHING as a scientist. The phrase clearly doesn't mean you can turn into a ball of incandescent gas if you try hard enough. But it does handily summarize the truth that excellence and achievement of a great many things require a LOT of effort and perserverence. These traits are being increasingly disapproved of in common discourse now.
That is how I think as well. I think a lot of the boundaries we have are our own and we need to push the boundaries to improve and get better. I feel that there days people don't have the patience to persevere and put in a lot of effort. Not every goal is available for everyone but does not mean you can't reach your own'personal best.2 -
In addition to the fact that not everyone can achieve everything, I don't like this phrase in other aspects too. It puts pressure on me to work hard, and I don't like doing that - white knuckling is just not my style. I like to work smart and play the long game. Willpower and pushing on is usually lauded and perceived as superior to any other methods, which sometimes makes other methods inadvertently seem like an undesirable character defect. I don't mind the fact that I don't fit that standard. I like the persistence and longevity of my results with the least discomfort possible over being drunk on bursts of pride with quicker or grander (likely fleeting) results achieved by putting myself through the wringer and forgetting to live. Sometimes and for some things I do push through as needed and when needed, but it's not something that takes over my entire life and I avoid it whenever it's possible to achieve my desired reasonably planned results without it. It's all about how much effort a result is worth, and how much of other things I'm willing to sacrifice for it.7
-
I have no problem with it. I mostly hear it said to children and while it's not true I think it can motivate them. By the time they are old enough to know that it's false they will hopefully also be wise enough to understand that there are limitations, as I would assume (hope) most adults are.
'You will never know what you can do until you try' is better IMO. Maybe I could have played center field if I'd tried hard enough. I'll never know.2 -
It reminds me of this annoying guy. Even as a child there was something that irked me about his message. Yes, some things are impossible! Accepting that is a part of life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnfFBspNrN8 0 -
This statement is usually echoed by people who successfully completed THEIR goal and use it to try to encourage others to do the same. But for some reason, many of those successful believe that their sacrifices are the same as others out there.
"I worked my tail off", "I gave up everything", etc. are other common statements. But where they might have succeeded in one realm, they failed at another. Not uncommon with many successful people are personal relationships that are less successful.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
10 -
I agree with this for the most part. Genetics sets parameters, but willpower and perseverance supersede talent in most cases.
I prefer:
"Your mind will quit long before your body does"
This sentiment is in direct contradiction to those looking to advance in the victim hierarchy.6 -
I find it un-realistic and therefore negative. I tell my son simply this when he goes to school, (I have a child with special needs) Be a good boy, listen to your teachers, have fun and most of all do your best..." As long as you do your best you will never have anything to feel ashamed about, win lose or draw.17
-
Try harder.
Its usually the best advice for most things in life. Just. Try. Harder.7 -
1. As the phrase 'nothing is impossible if you work hard enough' is not literally true (we wouldn't tell someone who is blind that they could see if they worked hard enough, for example), what do you assume the 'real' meaning of this phrase usually is? And I'd use this for variations of this idea, too - 'you can do anything if you put your mind to it,' 'all you need is hard work in order to succeed in life,' and so on.
So...what does this phrase mean to you?
2. When you hear phrases like this used, is the general tone positive or negative, or somewhere in between?
Like, positive might be encouraging someone who is feeling like they will never meet their health goals, and reminding them that they are working hard so they are going to see results. Negative might be shaming someone who hadn't met their goals, implying that they would be doing better if they had been working harder.
3. Based on how you hear it being used most often, do you think this phrase promotes a certain type of attitude among people who exercise, and if so, is it a good one?
1. I would interpret those phrases to mean the person saying them believes other people are being lazy if they are struggling to achieve something. I think it is more judgement than encouragement and not realistic. Often it is said by people who had an advantage to those starting with much less. I think it is pretty obvious that you have to work to achieve goals. Not every goal is realistic for everyone even with hard work.
2. Negative, condescending tone usually.
I think when people want to be positive and encouraging they would acknowledge the goal is achievable, note what the person is already doing and what they can realistically do in steps. Like "Sure, you can run a marathon someday. You just started running and are already improving your speed and distance. There is a 5k in a couple of months. Why not train for that for the time being? Keep working at it!"
3. I think it is part of an attitude promising unrealistic, unhealthy results- like you can get an airbrushed model's body if you diet and exercise hard enough. I think taking such a phrase to heart contributes to disordered thinking or injury.3 -
I don't mind it because "within the limits of physical reality" is a codicil my mind puts on EVERYTHING as a scientist. The phrase clearly doesn't mean you can turn into a ball of incandescent gas if you try hard enough. But it does handily summarize the truth that excellence and achievement of a great many things require a LOT of effort and perserverence. These traits are being increasingly disapproved of in common discourse now.
This makes sense to me.
I don't think I've noticed the phrase, though. Is it common now?
I'd probably put in in the category of stuff people say to be encouraging that they haven't really thought through and don't mean literally and not really notice it, so it's possible I've heard it and not really noticed it.
I do think that physical limitations have to be acknowledged and assuming that someone else is struggling or has failed to do something that you have done because they just didn't try is wrong. I'm struggling with the line between encouragement and accepting that someone just can't do more than she is with my mother now, as she's been sick for a while (chronic health condition) and is currently recovering from a broken hip and not doing as well as they want her to be, and after a point apparently the insurance will stop covering some of the extra therapies for the physical recovery from the injury as not likely to succeed. I would not use this particular phrase, obviously, but it is genuinely tough to know what to do (and my father is convinced that my mother could try harder and is not, whereas I am less certain she's not simply doing all she can).
Wow, wasn't really intending to go off about this!3 -
Been hearing this all my life. Generally from privilege jerks who want to feel superior to struggling people based on their own (false, inherited, gifted, etc.) success.
‘One can not achieve anything truly worth having without a heck of a lot of effort and hard work’. That is supportive and encouraging.
OP’s version is garbage and I know what type of smug, privileged, insensitive jerk I’m dealing with when I hear it.7 -
I don't mind it because "within the limits of physical reality" is a codicil my mind puts on EVERYTHING as a scientist. The phrase clearly doesn't mean you can turn into a ball of incandescent gas if you try hard enough. But it does handily summarize the truth that excellence and achievement of a great many things require a LOT of effort and perserverence. These traits are being increasingly disapproved of in common discourse now.
But if you give it enough time and start with a big enough ball of incandescent gas, you can wind up with mountains and oceans and stars and all of us.
5 -
Given the anger about it, I am curious in what context people are being told "nothing is impossible if you work hard enough." Thinking more, I really can't imagine a scenario in which someone has said it to me, or would.1
-
lemurcat12 wrote: »Given the anger about it, I am curious in what context people are being told "nothing is impossible if you work hard enough." Thinking more, I really can't imagine a scenario in which someone has said it to me, or would.
No one's ever said it to me, but I'm not one of the angry ones.
I'd probably just laugh at them if someone said that to me.1 -
Wow, I did not expect to be in the minority on this one. That's a perfectly positive phrase and I've found it to be mostly true. The other variant I've heard once was "If someone REALLY wants to do something, that person is going to do it REALLY well." I'm not sure if intelligence, dedication, and strong work ethic counts as 'privilege.'7
-
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Given the anger about it, I am curious in what context people are being told "nothing is impossible if you work hard enough." Thinking more, I really can't imagine a scenario in which someone has said it to me, or would.
No one's ever said it to me, but I'm not one of the angry ones.
I'd probably just laugh at them if someone said that to me.
Well, I've heard anything is possible ...
5 -
I've never heard it said to anyone other than young children. In fact, I've been saying this to my 4 yr old niece. She has said to me that she wants to be an astronaut, a doctor, a teacher, and a few other professions. My response has been "honey, you can be whatever your heart desires. She's not old enough to understand what hard work really means, but when she gets older I will say that to her. I'd rather say that to her than say "you know, you might have your expectations set a little too high, and you may have some physical limitations later, so you might want you rethink you prospects down the road".4
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.3K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 422 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions