All Calories are not created equal!
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Alatariel75 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »jpaulparis wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »Aren't you the same person espousing 800 cals a day? No matter what you eat, you're going to lose on 800 cals a day. Eat 800 calories of twinkies if you want. It doesn't make it healthy.
If it's not how many calories you eat, but what you eat, why starve yourself at 800 calories per day? Why not eat whatever you want of the "good" calories and lose away?
Also, by the logic that if you eat the good ones you will lose, how come people who don't need to lose and only eat the "good" calories don't slowly starve to death? Or do they have to add some "bad" to maintain?
Please eat 800 calories of twinkies for even a week.... guarantee you'll gain... and be pre diabetic.
How much are you willing to bet? I've got some student loans that need paying and I could use the easy money.
I'm half tempted to game on this, except Twinkies are hard to get and damn expensive over here.
I couldn't do it, I don't particularly like Twinkies. But with all this talk about them, I'm probably going to have to go get one if only to remind myself why I don't like them. #cakeculture6 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »jpaulparis wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »Aren't you the same person espousing 800 cals a day? No matter what you eat, you're going to lose on 800 cals a day. Eat 800 calories of twinkies if you want. It doesn't make it healthy.
If it's not how many calories you eat, but what you eat, why starve yourself at 800 calories per day? Why not eat whatever you want of the "good" calories and lose away?
Also, by the logic that if you eat the good ones you will lose, how come people who don't need to lose and only eat the "good" calories don't slowly starve to death? Or do they have to add some "bad" to maintain?
Please eat 800 calories of twinkies for even a week.... guarantee you'll gain... and be pre diabetic.
How much are you willing to bet? I've got some student loans that need paying and I could use the easy money.
I'm half tempted to game on this, except Twinkies are hard to get and damn expensive over here.
I couldn't do it, I don't particularly like Twinkies. But with all this talk about them, I'm probably going to have to go get one if only to remind myself why I don't like them. #cakeculture
I don't like them either, they coat my mouth with ick. But I'm stubborn and a bit of an a'hole, so if it wouldn't cost a bomb, I'd give it a go, just to make the point.2 -
On second thought, I could go for a Moon pie and RC Cola "diet" challenge instead. Kill two woo's at once.Alatariel75 wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »jpaulparis wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »Aren't you the same person espousing 800 cals a day? No matter what you eat, you're going to lose on 800 cals a day. Eat 800 calories of twinkies if you want. It doesn't make it healthy.
If it's not how many calories you eat, but what you eat, why starve yourself at 800 calories per day? Why not eat whatever you want of the "good" calories and lose away?
Also, by the logic that if you eat the good ones you will lose, how come people who don't need to lose and only eat the "good" calories don't slowly starve to death? Or do they have to add some "bad" to maintain?
Please eat 800 calories of twinkies for even a week.... guarantee you'll gain... and be pre diabetic.
How much are you willing to bet? I've got some student loans that need paying and I could use the easy money.
I'm half tempted to game on this, except Twinkies are hard to get and damn expensive over here.
I couldn't do it, I don't particularly like Twinkies. But with all this talk about them, I'm probably going to have to go get one if only to remind myself why I don't like them. #cakeculture
I don't like them either, they coat my mouth with ick. But I'm stubborn and a bit of an a'hole, so if it wouldn't cost a bomb, I'd give it a go, just to make the point.10 -
I agree with OP & I didn't see where she posted that you can eat as many of the "better" calories as you want & still lose wt, so I don't think it has to do with cico. I agree because I find it to be true for me, I lose better when I eat the way she posted19
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jpaulparis wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »Aren't you the same person espousing 800 cals a day? No matter what you eat, you're going to lose on 800 cals a day. Eat 800 calories of twinkies if you want. It doesn't make it healthy.
If it's not how many calories you eat, but what you eat, why starve yourself at 800 calories per day? Why not eat whatever you want of the "good" calories and lose away?
Also, by the logic that if you eat the good ones you will lose, how come people who don't need to lose and only eat the "good" calories don't slowly starve to death? Or do they have to add some "bad" to maintain?
Please eat 800 calories of twinkies for even a week.... guarantee you'll gain... and be pre diabetic.
I would be miserable eating 800 calories of twinkies for a week, but I would lose weight. If you mean 800 total for the week I would be even more miserable. If it was 800 a day, a little less miserable, but would still lose weight. At the end of it I would likely hate twinkies though.2 -
This is a very thoughtful post. It’s sound advice for eating guidelines, if calorie counting isn’t possible, but it does look like you confused “calorie” and “nutrition.” It’s a good way to eat low calorie, filling foods, without counting calories, but no matter what you are eating, calories ultimatly determine weight loss; not nutrition.4
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While reading through the posts as the OP was getting beat up on, I couldn't help but wonder that if the only way to lose weight is by having a calorie deficit, how do people on Atkins type diets manage to lose weight while eating more calories then required. Is it possible that there is more then one scientifically based method to losing weight.15
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They aren't. There's perception and there's reality. Just like the dieter that says they don't each much at all (until it's actually tracked and measured), the same happens with people who CLAIM they eat a lot. I get this from males who say they eat a lot and CAN'T gain weight. Horsefeathers. When I've actually got males like this to sit down and do it, they normally find out they they are eat at or under their maintenance calories.While reading through the posts as the OP was getting beat up on, I couldn't help but wonder that if the only way to lose weight is by having a calorie deficit, how do people on Atkins type diets manage to lose weight while eating more calories then required. Is it possible that there is more then one scientifically based method to losing weight.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Personally for me, it's because I hear some form of it everyday at the gym.drawaimfire wrote: »Firstly, the commenting on here is making my afternoon fly by, Thank you!
Secondly, Veterans, how do you not lose your ever loving minds with the almost daily repeats of this crap? I've only really been on the forums since this time last year and I've had to take breaks, and that was just from READING posts, not replying.
/Salute!
Thirdly,
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Please explain how the metabolism turns into a black hole where ingested energy just disappears. I will await a scientific response!While reading through the posts as the OP was getting beat up on, I couldn't help but wonder that if the only way to lose weight is by having a calorie deficit, how do people on Atkins type diets manage to lose weight while eating more calories then required. Is it possible that there is more then one scientifically based method to losing weight.
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If you have a Paypal account and are willing to bet, I'll take you up on that.jpaulparis wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »Aren't you the same person espousing 800 cals a day? No matter what you eat, you're going to lose on 800 cals a day. Eat 800 calories of twinkies if you want. It doesn't make it healthy.
If it's not how many calories you eat, but what you eat, why starve yourself at 800 calories per day? Why not eat whatever you want of the "good" calories and lose away?
Also, by the logic that if you eat the good ones you will lose, how come people who don't need to lose and only eat the "good" calories don't slowly starve to death? Or do they have to add some "bad" to maintain?
Please eat 800 calories of twinkies for even a week.... guarantee you'll gain... and be pre diabetic.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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That's crazy talk. My diet consists almost entirely of carbs, and I'm losing weight. I'm eating between 1500 and 1900 calories a day of all the carbs too.... And absolutely zero meats at all (or cheese, milk, yogurt) And I'm not hungry...2
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PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »jpaulparis wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »Aren't you the same person espousing 800 cals a day? No matter what you eat, you're going to lose on 800 cals a day. Eat 800 calories of twinkies if you want. It doesn't make it healthy.
If it's not how many calories you eat, but what you eat, why starve yourself at 800 calories per day? Why not eat whatever you want of the "good" calories and lose away?
Also, by the logic that if you eat the good ones you will lose, how come people who don't need to lose and only eat the "good" calories don't slowly starve to death? Or do they have to add some "bad" to maintain?
Please eat 800 calories of twinkies for even a week.... guarantee you'll gain... and be pre diabetic.
How much are you willing to bet? I've got some student loans that need paying and I could use the easy money.
I'm so tempted to try this, for real. I'm just worried about what my friends and family will think of me looking like death all the time.
But then again it is only a week. I could say I had a stomach bug or something.
I can see it now - The Twinkie VLCD - coming to your Health & Fitness blogs soon!!5 -
While reading through the posts as the OP was getting beat up on, I couldn't help but wonder that if the only way to lose weight is by having a calorie deficit, how do people on Atkins type diets manage to lose weight while eating more calories then required. Is it possible that there is more then one scientifically based method to losing weight.
They don't...6 -
I know this will generate a lot of critical comments but shouldn't we all think deeper?
People who have healthy bodies, and I don't just mean physically fit, but healthy without any sort of disease or disorders, are often passionate about straight up calorie in/out methods of weigh loss or menu plans. Calories may all count up to some number the same way but the genetic make up of each food is very different. It seems important to always remember that many people on MFP have something else going on medically. Celiac, Hypothyroid (all unique versions of it), Autoimmune issues, Allergies, RA, Crones disease and many others. Many of the alternate dietary and fitness plans that work for people, which others consider wrong in some way, are helpful to those with various health concerns.
Each person has their own magic formula just as each persons body has its own magic genetics. Certain foods can trigger adverse affects in people that seem just fine to a healthy person. For example-I have family members with MSUD, which is a metabolic disorder caused by a deficiency of the branched-chain alpha-keto acid dehydrogenase complex (BCKDC), leading to a buildup of the branched-chain amino acids (leucine, isoleucine, and valine) and their by-products (ketoacids) in the blood and urine. A hamburger or fish, regardless of the calories, can cause death. For them, calories are not just calories...Even in people who have the same Dx, our individual body genetics can mean, we each process nutrients and chemicals in our body differently. Some extreme, some less threatening but none the less impactful.
There is no one size fits all, not even calorie in/out formula for every person on earth. One of the things that concerns me about any of these threads are passionate responses that in appearance, seem to lump every human body into functioning exactly the same. Optimal human bodies work a certain way...but in practice, the advances in medicine show all our bodies are unique. No matter your credentials, DX someone and condemning what has worked for them via thread comment seems irresponsible. When the comments get ugly, a perception that mental/emotional fitness may be lacking in an overall fitness program for some people.23 -
lisawolfinger wrote: »People who have healthy bodies, and I don't just mean physically fit, but healthy without any sort of disease or disorders, are often passionate about straight up calorie in/out methods of weigh loss or menu plans. Calories may all count up to some number the same way but the genetic make up of each food is very different.
Not sure what the genes of our foods have to do with it, but sure, the genes of a carrot are different from the genes of a parsnip.
I do agree that the NUTRITIONAL make-up of various foods is different and that that matters, but I expect that EVERYONE in this discussion agrees. It has nothing to do with OP's argument that essentially we need to cut carbs to lose weight, which is false.It seems important to always remember that many people on MFP have something else going on medically. Celiac, Hypothyroid (all unique versions of it), Autoimmune issues, Allergies, RA, Crones disease and many others. Many of the alternate dietary and fitness plans that work for people, which others consider wrong in some way, are helpful to those with various health concerns.
Specific plans may be helpful for someone with a specific problem (i.e., if you are lactose intolerant, avoid lactose; if you are celiac, avoid gluten). OP's comment was made as general diet advice, and supposedly about how to lose weight, so that's not really a defense of it. It's still wrong and woo.Each person has their own magic formula
For weight loss? No. There are individual things you can do that will make things easier or harder for you, yes, but that has more to do with psychology and what foods or eating patterns you find sating (probably a mix of biology and psychology and habits). But there are a huge range of dietary choices that can work for people, even one individual person. The way weight loss works, period, is through calorie deficit. What makes a calorie deficit easy to keep (or makes it harder) will depend on the person. OP made general claims for humans as a whole, so that there are individual elements, again, is not a defense of OP's silly post.each persons body has its own magic genetics.
Our genetic differences are actually not particularly great, and they aren't magic, I'm not sure what the purpose of that term is. The evidence is that humans can thrive on a huge range of diets and, relevant to this thread, that the diets with the best results seem to be higher carb (although I don't personally think that's because it's better to be high carb, I think there are other things associated with those diets and carb percentage is irrelevant unless things you need are absent (like protein, healthy fats -- these should not be a concern with a developed nation).
I of course agree that if a food gives a bad result you should avoid it. I am puzzled -- seriously, really, really puzzled -- why you think the discussion of CICO denies this.There is no one size fits all
The ONLY person asserting that there is a one size fits all was OP. She thinks we should all do it the way she is outlining.
And again, that weight loss works through calorie deficit -- something I get passionate about because understanding the facts is important, there is way too much fact denial in our world -- does not mean that there aren't OTHER things that go into what is a good, healthy diet. Of course there is. That someone could lose weight eating only bread doesn't mean that eating only bread is easy to do, without overeating (I think it would be, I'd get way bored of bread, but others might differ). It also does not mean that a diet made up of only bread would be healthy (it's not), or that it would not be a disaster for someone with celiac (of course it would be). But none of that has a thing to do with CICO.11 -
We're also not all that different...7
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Sort of.
Overeating on a nutrient-dense diet (which I did) might (or might not) be healthier than overeating on a very poor diet. I think it probably is a little healthier, but eh. Fact is that however you get fat, it's unhealthy to be fat. Was it healthier for me to be fat eating lots of vegetables, a balanced (if excessive) diet, lots of home-cooked foods and no fast food and not a whole lot of sweets (not my thing) vs. someone who is not fat but eats the SAD? IMO, probably not. If you add in that I, in this hypothetical, am sedentary, and the thin person who eats the SAD is active, well, I'd say the thin person definitely would be healthier.
Now, is WHAT the calories consist of ALSO important, not merely how many, if we are talking about health? Sure, a healthy diet is better than an unhealthy one (although a healthy one can include some foods that don't contribute much in the way of micronutrients, if it is otherwise adequate).
I don't think you and I actually disagree on any of this, but this was just a good place to tag on my thoughts. ;-)1
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