Is dairy actually bad for you?

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  • cmtigger
    cmtigger Posts: 1,450 Member
    GailK1967 wrote: »
    cmtigger wrote: »
    GailK1967 wrote: »
    You can develop an intolerance or allergy at any time of your life, regardless of whether you've been eating it for years.

    IMO dairy is very tasty, relatively cheap and an easy source of protein for humans but NOT healthy or ideal. No other species goes and sucks on another species once it's weaned so why do we gobble the milk of other animals? The answer is because it's been heavily marketed to us and it tastes great especially with all that other *kitten* added to it. Hence why so many people do develop an intolerance to it at some point.

    We are biologically programmed to eat our own species milk (ie breast milk) until weaning age which should be around 2-6 years of age. After that we have absolutely no evolutionary or biological need for milk.

    Plenty of species will drink the milk of a different species if offered it as an adult. Most species just don’t have the ability to milk other animals.

    Often you can catch adult guinea pigs nursing off a lactating sow. It’s something that people who raise them have to keep an eye out to make sure it isn’t happening so the pups get enough milk.

    Of their own species. Do you see them drinking off a fully grown cow? Do you think they could tolerate cows milk? Cows milk is designed for rapid muscle growth in calves. I doubt Guinea pigs or humans need that.

    Considering a cow’s teat is bigger than their mouth, that would be a challenge. I do know that they have no apparent issues with the milk they are drinking from the other pigs, and also do fine when they are supplemented with cows milk derived formula when I put a bottle on a cage to help with a large litter.
  • cmtigger
    cmtigger Posts: 1,450 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    Do people hand out pamphlets with that crap about puss and hormones and "only for baby cows"? The amount of people saying exactly the same thing in every thread about milk is astounding.

    Yeah, I think it's spread on certain kinds of websites. It's sad some people give things they want to believe so little critical thought as most of these things just don't pass the red face test.

    It's PUS, PUS, see, gross, you don't want to consume something GROSS.

    No, get it, cows are FAT, if you drink milk you will be FAT like cows.

    Other animals don't have dairy farms, so humans shouldn't either. (I still want a response to the fact that other animals don't have ANY farms, or that cats don't eat vegetables. Does that mean we should do that too?)

    One of my cats loved McDonald's fries, so I guess those must be OK. ;)

    We had a cat that would lose its beans over baked pumpkin. Go figure.

    I buy cat food that is tuna and pumpkin because one of my cats loves it.
  • estherdragonbat
    estherdragonbat Posts: 5,285 Member
    I know pumpkin is in one flavor of the wet food I get for my ferals (I get a case of 12 cans, 4 flavors in the case). I think it's the only vegetable in sufficient quantity to be mentioned on the label.
  • MichelleSilverleaf
    MichelleSilverleaf Posts: 2,029 Member
    I know pumpkin is in one flavor of the wet food I get for my ferals (I get a case of 12 cans, 4 flavors in the case). I think it's the only vegetable in sufficient quantity to be mentioned on the label.

    I wish I could get my cats to eat pumpkin, they snub it every time. They're not fans of anything with veggies in it. My dog on the other hand LOVES it, she'll lick pureed pumpkin right off the spoon.
  • amusedmonkey
    amusedmonkey Posts: 10,331 Member
    I know pumpkin is in one flavor of the wet food I get for my ferals (I get a case of 12 cans, 4 flavors in the case). I think it's the only vegetable in sufficient quantity to be mentioned on the label.

    I wish I could get my cats to eat pumpkin, they snub it every time. They're not fans of anything with veggies in it. My dog on the other hand LOVES it, she'll lick pureed pumpkin right off the spoon.

    Our dog would eat anything, but he is partial to cucumbers for some reason and would beg for them. We know not to leave food unattended around him and vigilantly keep anything that would harm him out of reach. I remember when he was a puppy, my sister had a grapefruit sectioned and placed the plate on a low side table then left to answer the phone or something. When she came back, the entire contents of the plate were gone. It was such a scare, but after calling the vet he assured us if the grapefruit was peeled we just needed to watch for gastro issues in the next couple of days and since he's a large dog he is will likely be okay. Thankfully he tolerated it fine, but that's when we knew he would eat almost any food and that we needed to be careful. Not sure how he likes pumpkin, it's not a popular or readily food here (I've had it maybe twice in my life).
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,112 MFP Moderator
    Thread has been reopened. Please keep in mind that discussions and differing opinions are allowed, but please do it in a constructive way.

    And in case anyone would need a refresher of the guidelines: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 25,971 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    It's a slippery slope. One of the main reasons dairy is bad is because it's chalk full of hormones especially non-organic varieties. The process of homogenization makes it easier for the fat molecules to surpass digestion, which causes steriods/hormones from dairy to get absorbed into the bloodstream more readily than non-homogenized dairy. Rbgh is a common artificial hormone that is present in some dairy products. While no scientific evidence is available to prove its negative effect on health, it has been discovered that cows injected with this hormone are more likely to produce offspring with birth defects and other health problems. Many countries have banned the use of rbgh so make sure to check the labels.

    I personally think dairy in small amounts is good, especially greek yogurt and fermented yogurts with live bacterial cultures in them. Keep in mind if you buy the sweetened yogurts, your intestines do not absorb the bacterial cultures which is supposed to provide the "digestive support" it claims to. Also, sheep and goat dairy naturally contains less hormones and casein which may be a good alternative for those who are sensitive to cows milk. My personal favorite is a local brand of non homogenized organic goat milk. It's not something I drink everyday, but I do like to have it on occasion.


    This doesn't even make sense. 100+ years ago consumers were being defrauded by the sale of "milk" that was just chalk dissolved in water, but that was before milk was regulated. And even if it were still happening, chalk is a mineral -- it doesn't come with hormones. Why would someone trying to pass off chalky water as milk bother mixing in hormones at an added cost?

    I think the poster meant "chock full of hormones," but that led me to wonder why someone not a native speaker would use a folksy turn of phrase that isn't all that common and sounds rather weird, and it struck me that I'd seen that usage before and searched and, yep, as expected, a LOT of the bad information dairy scare sites use exactly that language. You can very often tell that someone is parroting some website from the use of jargony sounding language. Another example I've seen and that bugs me is everyone going on about foods being "just packed with" something -- that's not a natural way of talking outside diet sites, but seems really common on them, and is a good sign of where someone is getting their information.

    I'm trying to figure out how homogenizing milk makes it easy to avoid digesting fat. Seems to make skim milk kind of unnecessary, no, as whole but homogenized would have the same calories. Of course, that's nonsense.
    And if something is "surpassing" digestion, then it would just pass out of the body as waste, not be absorbed more readily. (I see this fallacy all the time on here, more typically in the form of "X is unnatural, so our bodies don't recognize it and can't digest it, and therefore it gets stored as fat." No, it doesn't work that way. No absorbing or storing if it resists digestion.)

    So much this. Drives me crazy.
    If rBGH is banned in a country, what's the point in checking the label? If a manufacturer is using milk from cows illegally dosed with rBGH, I doubt they would admit it on the label.

    I tend to prefer plain yogurt myself, but do you have any proof of your claim that sweetened yogurt somehow blocks your intestines from "absorbing" the bacterial cultures (which isn't really what happens; the bacteria colonizes your gut -- if your intestines "absorbed" them, they would move into your blood stream, and do you no good from a digestive standpoint). If you have a piece of fruit with your plain yogurt, does that negate the value of the bacteria? Why is the sugar in the fruit different? What about the naturally occurring sugar in the yogurt (6 to 9 grams per cup in plain, traditional - i.e., unstrained -- yogurts in my refrigerator right now? Why is that sugar different?

    Yes, exactly. I hope you get responses to your questions.

    If you're referring to condensed milk in cans, the main ingredient in there is still cows milk.

    What on earth? Please identify what part of my post you interpreted to be me talking about condensed milk in cans? At this point you don't seem to even be responding to what is written.

    Not going to respond to the rest now, maybe later if I think there's still something to say when I have a few more minutes.

    There was nothing in your post that made me think you were referring to "condensed milk in cans", and I read it several times trying to find it.

    I agree with you that the poster earlier meant 'chock' instead of 'chalk'.
  • BeccaLoves2lift
    BeccaLoves2lift Posts: 376 Member
    toxikon wrote: »
    I personally find I get bloated when I eat high-carb or lots of vegetables. I feel great eating protein, fats and dairy.

    That would likely be the fiber causing the bloat. Just drink plenty of water if that happens.
  • BeccaLoves2lift
    BeccaLoves2lift Posts: 376 Member
    ritzvin wrote: »
    jgnatca wrote: »
    My daughter developed full-blown digestive issues when she tried - at my suggestion - to add more beans/legumes in to her diet. The fiber bomb did a big number on her. She messed around with all sorts of possible causes because she couldn't believe something that was supposed to be 'healthy', wasn't, for her.

    From what I've read, that's normal for most people going from almost no fiber to suddenly adding fiber - apparently, it takes time to adjust and for the body to start producing the required enzymes at higher levels.

    This!
  • TR0berts
    TR0berts Posts: 7,739 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    Do people hand out pamphlets with that crap about puss and hormones and "only for baby cows"? The amount of people saying exactly the same thing in every thread about milk is astounding.

    Yeah, I think it's spread on certain kinds of websites. It's sad some people give things they want to believe so little critical thought as most of these things just don't pass the red face test.

    It's PUS, PUS, see, gross, you don't want to consume something GROSS.

    No, get it, cows are FAT, if you drink milk you will be FAT like cows.

    Other animals don't have dairy farms, so humans shouldn't either. (I still want a response to the fact that other animals don't have ANY farms, or that cats don't eat vegetables. Does that mean we should do that too?)

    One of my cats loved McDonald's fries, so I guess those must be OK. ;)

    Me, too*. In that same household, we had 3 other cats that liked broccoli* - one ate just the florets, one ate just the stems, and one ate the entire thing. That cat that liked fries? Just looked at the other cats like they were crazy for eating broccoli. Oh, and the cat** that ate the entire piece of broccoli? Loved Salt & Vinegar potato chips. We also had one cat that loved to eat shaved almonds. Not exactly a vegetable, but definitely plant life.



    * We only allowed them to do this once, since we weren't entirely sure if these were OK.

    ** She lived to the ripe old age of 24.
  • animatorswearbras
    animatorswearbras Posts: 1,001 Member
    AnvilHead wrote: »

    Not that I'm a conspiracy theorist, nor does it mean this paper is false, but the conflict of interest of who was funding this review at the bottom is nearly every large dairy producer and should be taken into consideration.

    OP I am currently 3 weeks in to cutting dairy out to see if it helps with my chronic symptoms, I have not noticed any change so far, I intend to give it 6 weeks total but will probably go back to dairy, the elimination diet sounds like a good idea though. It's perhaps wishful thinking that I can treat my medical condition with diet but the medication I've been on before gives me side effects that rival my (not very serious) condition.