Of refeeds and diet breaks
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »Rickster1967 wrote: »Good Lord a whole load of posts since I last checked this thread, I will sit down and read them when I have some free time
I'm now on day 121, 47lbs down, still dropping 2.9lbs per week on average eating 2000 cals per day
Still not seen a significant increase in hunger, I do need my meals come meal time though
Have scheduled diet break for Christmas time. Adding 700 cals per day.
If you're still losing 2.9lbs a week (which is too damn fast, but you seem determined not to listen on that), then an additional 700 cals is nowhere near going to bring you to maintenance. Ergo not a diet break because it won't do jack to bring hormones back in line. You need to be adding more like 1500 cals a day based on that rate of loss.
my weight loss is NOT 'too damn fast' tvm
I have serious medical issues and I need to drop the weight. I still have 89lbs to go and I do not want to be spending 18 months to lose it at a pound a week thanks. When I've got 30 to go I'm going to be doing a different plan anyway involving gaining mass
I competed at international level in judo in my teens & 20s and have a lot of experience in manipulating body composition. Just never done it from this start weight before. As it stands I don't even need a diet break, I can continue on 2000 for much longer yet. I'm only doing it over Xmas to avoid it being a pain for the rest of the family over the festivities.
This is not a struggle, I am not finding it difficult and I am planning my phases
As for eating 3500 calories a day that's just ridiculous, I'm sedentary apart from a few workouts (which I won't be doing over the christmas period) - if I eat that much I will put weight on, simple as that. 2700 will give me more flexibility, I'll add carbs and it will all be fine4 -
Rickster1967 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Rickster1967 wrote: »Good Lord a whole load of posts since I last checked this thread, I will sit down and read them when I have some free time
I'm now on day 121, 47lbs down, still dropping 2.9lbs per week on average eating 2000 cals per day
Still not seen a significant increase in hunger, I do need my meals come meal time though
Have scheduled diet break for Christmas time. Adding 700 cals per day.
If you're still losing 2.9lbs a week (which is too damn fast, but you seem determined not to listen on that), then an additional 700 cals is nowhere near going to bring you to maintenance. Ergo not a diet break because it won't do jack to bring hormones back in line. You need to be adding more like 1500 cals a day based on that rate of loss.
my weight loss is NOT 'too damn fast' tvm
I have serious medical issues and I need to drop the weight. I still have 89lbs to go and I do not want to be spending 18 months to lose it at a pound a week thanks. When I've got 30 to go I'm going to be doing a different plan anyway involving gaining mass
I competed at international level in judo in my teens & 20s and have a lot of experience in manipulating body composition. Just never done it from this start weight before. As it stands I don't even need a diet break, I can continue on 2000 for much longer yet. I'm only doing it over Xmas to avoid it being a pain for the rest of the family over the festivities.
This is not a struggle, I am not finding it difficult and I am planning my phases
As for eating 3500 calories a day that's just ridiculous, I'm sedentary apart from a few workouts (which I won't be doing over the christmas period) - if I eat that much I will put weight on, simple as that. 2700 will give me more flexibility, I'll add carbs and it will all be fine
Just from my view in the cheap seats: You're being incredibly harsh and unkind toward people who are just trying to help you.
And keep in mind that the person saying this is the same person who got a gentle wrist slap -- a well-deserved one. If I think you're being argumentative, you may want to think on that one.
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Rickster1967 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Rickster1967 wrote: »Good Lord a whole load of posts since I last checked this thread, I will sit down and read them when I have some free time
I'm now on day 121, 47lbs down, still dropping 2.9lbs per week on average eating 2000 cals per day
Still not seen a significant increase in hunger, I do need my meals come meal time though
Have scheduled diet break for Christmas time. Adding 700 cals per day.
If you're still losing 2.9lbs a week (which is too damn fast, but you seem determined not to listen on that), then an additional 700 cals is nowhere near going to bring you to maintenance. Ergo not a diet break because it won't do jack to bring hormones back in line. You need to be adding more like 1500 cals a day based on that rate of loss.
my weight loss is NOT 'too damn fast' tvm
I have serious medical issues and I need to drop the weight. I still have 89lbs to go and I do not want to be spending 18 months to lose it at a pound a week thanks. When I've got 30 to go I'm going to be doing a different plan anyway involving gaining mass
I competed at international level in judo in my teens & 20s and have a lot of experience in manipulating body composition. Just never done it from this start weight before. As it stands I don't even need a diet break, I can continue on 2000 for much longer yet. I'm only doing it over Xmas to avoid it being a pain for the rest of the family over the festivities.
This is not a struggle, I am not finding it difficult and I am planning my phases
As for eating 3500 calories a day that's just ridiculous, I'm sedentary apart from a few workouts (which I won't be doing over the christmas period) - if I eat that much I will put weight on, simple as that. 2700 will give me more flexibility, I'll add carbs and it will all be fine
For you to be losing ~3 lbs a week on 2000 cals, 3500 is maintenance for you, plain and simple. And I never said you should drop to 1 lb per week, but for the amount you need to lose, 1.5-2 lb would be more appropriate.
But fine, whatever. Do it your way and best of luck to you. Still not a diet break if you're not hitting maintenance, no matter how many carbs you add.
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And FYI, I'm usually at 2400-2500 for refeeds/diet breaks, because that's my TDEE. I'm a 5'6" 137 lb woman. So yeah, you can eat more than that.2
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »That’s a helluva hike @Nony_Mouse! I’d like to hike something like that one day. When I’m not a hermit lol. And just to mime all responses, “clean” eating is another form of nightmare fuel I went through as well. Orthorexia ahoy.
Nutrient density doesn’t have to be “clean” .. just focus on foods that get you the best bang for your buck depending on your goal. Set protein, then set the other two as you see fit. And because I’m an introvert, my cooking style is “crap in a pan” and served on “premium paper” plates. So in that sense, nutrient density comes in the form of eggs or carton egg whites, canned meat, supermarket deli meat, or microwaveable roast, actual vegetables, pork rinds, halo top ice cream, and protein bars. Basically my nutrients are fortified. I’m practically a child lol.
Funny thing is, I practically am a hermit! Introvert to the max (slightly better than you on 'cooking', but only because I pretty much eat the same things every day, cos it's easier anxiety-wise, and I have a dishwasher, otherwise I'd totally be on board with the paper plates). But I'm a hermit who loves being in the bush, and climbing stupidly big hills. Often on my own. My hiking buddy for tomorrow is pretty much the only person I will hike with, because he's pretty much the only person I know who can do it, keep up, not whine about difficulty/distance/etc. If anyone is slowing us down, it's me.
Lol perhaps it's also because I fit the lifestyle of a typical bachelor. I've plated a few meals #forthegram but every other day I eat for convenience.
I'm an extroverted introvert, if it makes any sense. I prefer to do my own thing but I'll be spontaneous and social if the mood calls for it.
On the Myers-Briggs scale I'm an INTP: https://www.16personalities.com/intp-personality
Can also be quite extroverted, but I burn out quick. INFJ.
Not doing it again right now, but IIRC, so am I.
Yep, we've discussed this. You are.
Forgive me and my oddly horrible memory. The things my tumor/medications cause me to selectively remember/forget never cease to amuse me.1 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »That’s a helluva hike @Nony_Mouse! I’d like to hike something like that one day. When I’m not a hermit lol. And just to mime all responses, “clean” eating is another form of nightmare fuel I went through as well. Orthorexia ahoy.
Nutrient density doesn’t have to be “clean” .. just focus on foods that get you the best bang for your buck depending on your goal. Set protein, then set the other two as you see fit. And because I’m an introvert, my cooking style is “crap in a pan” and served on “premium paper” plates. So in that sense, nutrient density comes in the form of eggs or carton egg whites, canned meat, supermarket deli meat, or microwaveable roast, actual vegetables, pork rinds, halo top ice cream, and protein bars. Basically my nutrients are fortified. I’m practically a child lol.
Funny thing is, I practically am a hermit! Introvert to the max (slightly better than you on 'cooking', but only because I pretty much eat the same things every day, cos it's easier anxiety-wise, and I have a dishwasher, otherwise I'd totally be on board with the paper plates). But I'm a hermit who loves being in the bush, and climbing stupidly big hills. Often on my own. My hiking buddy for tomorrow is pretty much the only person I will hike with, because he's pretty much the only person I know who can do it, keep up, not whine about difficulty/distance/etc. If anyone is slowing us down, it's me.
Lol perhaps it's also because I fit the lifestyle of a typical bachelor. I've plated a few meals #forthegram but every other day I eat for convenience.
I'm an extroverted introvert, if it makes any sense. I prefer to do my own thing but I'll be spontaneous and social if the mood calls for it.
On the Myers-Briggs scale I'm an INTP: https://www.16personalities.com/intp-personality
Can also be quite extroverted, but I burn out quick. INFJ.
Not doing it again right now, but IIRC, so am I.
Yep, we've discussed this. You are.
Forgive me and my oddly horrible memory. The things my tumor/medications cause me to selectively remember/forget never cease to amuse me.
That's why you have me
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Rickster1967 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Rickster1967 wrote: »Good Lord a whole load of posts since I last checked this thread, I will sit down and read them when I have some free time
I'm now on day 121, 47lbs down, still dropping 2.9lbs per week on average eating 2000 cals per day
Still not seen a significant increase in hunger, I do need my meals come meal time though
Have scheduled diet break for Christmas time. Adding 700 cals per day.
If you're still losing 2.9lbs a week (which is too damn fast, but you seem determined not to listen on that), then an additional 700 cals is nowhere near going to bring you to maintenance. Ergo not a diet break because it won't do jack to bring hormones back in line. You need to be adding more like 1500 cals a day based on that rate of loss.
my weight loss is NOT 'too damn fast' tvm
I have serious medical issues and I need to drop the weight. I still have 89lbs to go and I do not want to be spending 18 months to lose it at a pound a week thanks. When I've got 30 to go I'm going to be doing a different plan anyway involving gaining mass
I competed at international level in judo in my teens & 20s and have a lot of experience in manipulating body composition. Just never done it from this start weight before. As it stands I don't even need a diet break, I can continue on 2000 for much longer yet. I'm only doing it over Xmas to avoid it being a pain for the rest of the family over the festivities.
This is not a struggle, I am not finding it difficult and I am planning my phases
As for eating 3500 calories a day that's just ridiculous, I'm sedentary apart from a few workouts (which I won't be doing over the christmas period) - if I eat that much I will put weight on, simple as that. 2700 will give me more flexibility, I'll add carbs and it will all be fine
Do you weigh over 300 pounds?
A safe rate of loss is 1% of your bodyweight. After that? I'm afraid you're playing fast and loose with things.
And being sedentary? You really have hopes of gaining mass? You should be thinking now of preserving it, and you're doing everything possible (please tell me you have decent protein intake) to lose muscle.6 -
Rickster1967 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Rickster1967 wrote: »Good Lord a whole load of posts since I last checked this thread, I will sit down and read them when I have some free time
I'm now on day 121, 47lbs down, still dropping 2.9lbs per week on average eating 2000 cals per day
Still not seen a significant increase in hunger, I do need my meals come meal time though
Have scheduled diet break for Christmas time. Adding 700 cals per day.
If you're still losing 2.9lbs a week (which is too damn fast, but you seem determined not to listen on that), then an additional 700 cals is nowhere near going to bring you to maintenance. Ergo not a diet break because it won't do jack to bring hormones back in line. You need to be adding more like 1500 cals a day based on that rate of loss.
my weight loss is NOT 'too damn fast' tvm
I have serious medical issues and I need to drop the weight. I still have 89lbs to go and I do not want to be spending 18 months to lose it at a pound a week thanks. When I've got 30 to go I'm going to be doing a different plan anyway involving gaining mass
I competed at international level in judo in my teens & 20s and have a lot of experience in manipulating body composition. Just never done it from this start weight before. As it stands I don't even need a diet break, I can continue on 2000 for much longer yet. I'm only doing it over Xmas to avoid it being a pain for the rest of the family over the festivities.
This is not a struggle, I am not finding it difficult and I am planning my phases
As for eating 3500 calories a day that's just ridiculous, I'm sedentary apart from a few workouts (which I won't be doing over the christmas period) - if I eat that much I will put weight on, simple as that. 2700 will give me more flexibility, I'll add carbs and it will all be fine
Without adding any additional conflict, there's context behind why everyone feels the rate of loss may be a bit hasty. Granted the context is buried within previous pages, but the basic summary is that it's very easy to blur the weight loss and the psychological drive to keep it going at that rate. Body composition manipulation aside, there's always an adherent risk to developing some sort of attachment to results.
To bridge the possible gap of misinterpretation, if you truly have a lot to lose in terms of weight and body fat, your body is more readily capable of handling large deficits and weight loss. The optimal strategy would be to eat as much as you can that allows for a steady rate of weight loss, which would be the suggestion for increasing calorie intake that keeps you at a deficit. Given the present situation, the second best optimal outcome is that as the rate of weight loss slows, you adjust your perception and accordingly adjust your intake. The premise of the thread is to avoid negative effects of rapid fat loss by avoiding the drive to try cutting calories even harder than you already are.
Metabolism down regulates as you lose body fat, that's true for anyone. You may not yet feel it since you possibly still have enough stored body fat to keep up hormonal signaling at a relatively manageable level. Just be mindful of your mood, energy levels, protein intake, activity, libido, stress, etc., since those are all factors in metabolism and hormone signaling.
To paraphrase Lyle:
A lot of people get the notion that they'll slam calories as low as possible to drop the most amount of weight in the shortest amount of time, because we're human and we want it done yesterday, then once metabolic and hormonal down regulation occurs and causes stalls/plateaus, they've essentially bottomed out their calories from the beginning and so they have nowhere else to go, freak out and say they can't lose weight on 700 calories. Then you suggest to increase calories to maintain their new body weight for a while, to try and get back some of that down regulated adaptation to a normal level, and that initial calorie increase is going to result in a fluctuated weight gain that screws with people's minds, so what do they do? They go right back to cutting even harder than they did the first time and it becomes this vicious binge and purge cycle and now you've got an eating disorder when you didn't need to have one in the first place.
It's that exact sentiment everyone would like to avoid. Some of us have done exactly that and it's not a fun place to be. So, you are an adult and you do what feels best, but don't get caught up in trying to maintain the speed of weight loss. If it slows, it slows for a reason. Take that as a signal to start changing things around.17 -
Awesome insights, @anubis609. That being addicted to results really resonates. I continue to fight that mentality, because I know it's part of what led to my binging. I probably will always continue to fight that mentality.4
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Awesome insights, @anubis609. That being addicted to results really resonates. I continue to fight that mentality, because I know it's part of what led to my binging. I probably will always continue to fight that mentality.
Yup. My normal response to only having a kg to lose would have been 'hell, I can just go hard and knock that off in a week!', and here I am, saying 'oooh, diet break!' instead. Well proud of myself
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Awesome insights, @anubis609. That being addicted to results really resonates. I continue to fight that mentality, because I know it's part of what led to my binging. I probably will always continue to fight that mentality.
Yup. My normal response to only having a kg to lose would have been 'hell, I can just go hard and knock that off in a week!', and here I am, saying 'oooh, diet break!' instead. Well proud of myself
Every weekend after my scale drop, my instinct is to keep going to keep the scale low, and every weekend, I keep repeating what I've learned and implementing a refeed instead. I keep fighting those stupid instincts.7 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Awesome insights, @anubis609. That being addicted to results really resonates. I continue to fight that mentality, because I know it's part of what led to my binging. I probably will always continue to fight that mentality.
Thanks @GottaBurnEmAll
That's why most people are always referred to as "recovering" addicts/ED/etc because it's constant; it might not be everyday, but it's there. It would be completely untruthful for me to say that I'm fully recovered from my own disorders and that the idea of refeeds and deficits don't sound like binge/purge cycles, even if I logically understand what they are, but labels and numbers carry a value in my head, so I consistently refer to them as intended: structured refeeds and strategic deficits.
It really is a game of perception with me, so if I can offer any new/out of the box/off the wall perspectives on anything, I will. I've been through plenty of life altering events enough times to see that nothing is ever completely simple or complex.. rather they're just products or byproducts from a series of choices and actions that took place beforehand.5 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Awesome insights, @anubis609. That being addicted to results really resonates. I continue to fight that mentality, because I know it's part of what led to my binging. I probably will always continue to fight that mentality.
Yup. My normal response to only having a kg to lose would have been 'hell, I can just go hard and knock that off in a week!', and here I am, saying 'oooh, diet break!' instead. Well proud of myself
That's a healthy response! Well done
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Rickster1967 wrote: »Good Lord a whole load of posts since I last checked this thread, I will sit down and read them when I have some free time
I'm now on day 121, 47lbs down, still dropping 2.9lbs per week on average eating 2000 cals per day
Still not seen a significant increase in hunger, I do need my meals come meal time though
Have scheduled diet break for Christmas time. Adding 700 cals per day.
If you're still losing 2.9lbs a week (which is too damn fast, but you seem determined not to listen on that), then an additional 700 cals is nowhere near going to bring you to maintenance. Ergo not a diet break because it won't do jack to bring hormones back in line. You need to be adding more like 1500 cals a day based on that rate of loss.
Thirding. It's simple math, and VintageFeline was kind enough to do it for you.
Nony did the math this time 0 -
Hike day tomorrow!!! My hiking buddy came up this evening to save him having the extra travel time in the morning, so much fun has been had organising mountains of hiking food (I don't think we're in any danger of starving should we get stuck overnight for any reason), emergency gear etc.
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Going to be taking an unplanned diet break. My daughter ended up showing up 3 weeks early. So i figured ill diet break through thanksgiving.20
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »That’s a helluva hike @Nony_Mouse! I’d like to hike something like that one day. When I’m not a hermit lol. And just to mime all responses, “clean” eating is another form of nightmare fuel I went through as well. Orthorexia ahoy.
Nutrient density doesn’t have to be “clean” .. just focus on foods that get you the best bang for your buck depending on your goal. Set protein, then set the other two as you see fit. And because I’m an introvert, my cooking style is “crap in a pan” and served on “premium paper” plates. So in that sense, nutrient density comes in the form of eggs or carton egg whites, canned meat, supermarket deli meat, or microwaveable roast, actual vegetables, pork rinds, halo top ice cream, and protein bars. Basically my nutrients are fortified. I’m practically a child lol.
Funny thing is, I practically am a hermit! Introvert to the max (slightly better than you on 'cooking', but only because I pretty much eat the same things every day, cos it's easier anxiety-wise, and I have a dishwasher, otherwise I'd totally be on board with the paper plates). But I'm a hermit who loves being in the bush, and climbing stupidly big hills. Often on my own. My hiking buddy for tomorrow is pretty much the only person I will hike with, because he's pretty much the only person I know who can do it, keep up, not whine about difficulty/distance/etc. If anyone is slowing us down, it's me.
Lol perhaps it's also because I fit the lifestyle of a typical bachelor. I've plated a few meals #forthegram but every other day I eat for convenience.
I'm an extroverted introvert, if it makes any sense. I prefer to do my own thing but I'll be spontaneous and social if the mood calls for it.
On the Myers-Briggs scale I'm an INTP: https://www.16personalities.com/intp-personality
Can also be quite extroverted, but I burn out quick. INFJ.
I was reading that this is the most rare personality type @Nony_Mouse
I'm a ISFJ. I love Myers Briggs stuff.
Are we just a big bunch of introverts in here?1 -
I don't remember what my MB type is but definitely introvert. Can't be bothered redoing the test right now!3
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Another INFJ. I can be something of an extrovert, but only on an as-needed basis. The extrovert part is definitely an acquired persona, something like wearing lipstick or pantihose and heels. I can do it, but it's not my first choice and I need to go hide out in my blanket fort afterwards.3
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Another INFJ. I can be something of an extrovert, but only on an as-needed basis. The extrovert part is definitely an acquired persona, something like wearing lipstick or pantihose and heels. I can do it, but it's not my first choice and I need to go hide out in my blanket fort afterwards.
Exactly. A short time only and then lots of recovery time. Feel like there are so many downsides to being an introvert and it seems to upset other people a lot.1
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