Of refeeds and diet breaks

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  • anubis609
    anubis609 Posts: 3,966 Member
    Thanks for the welcome @Nony_Mouse .. and my condolences on the flare-up. 17C with that much humidity doesn't even register in my head as comfortable.. is it? Lol. It sounds like living in a humidifier.

    Also wanted to just add this site as a reference point for anyone that wants to peruse through their article archives:
    http://sci-fit.net/2017/energy-expenditure-study-collection/
  • anubis609
    anubis609 Posts: 3,966 Member
    anubis609 wrote: »
    I'm finally back from my 4 day hibernation. I ate, Netflix and chilled, did some maintenance activity, and ate some more. Food was hardly tracked accurately and weight fluctuation settled around 176-178. Expected/10; would eat again. Lol.

    The cycle speak doesn't deter the men folk as much as it's not too deep in our realm, or mine anyway :tongue:

    As far as addressing the benefit of having a full diet break go beyond 2 weeks, yes, there's a real benefit to having an "indefinite" break.. and that's lifetime maintenance. The ultimate goal for most. Trying to pinpoint a daily maintenance number is a bit of a hat trick since it's a moving target and each day is more or less variable, depending on your daily activity, stress level, cycle, etc. So take the average of what you're eating, compare it to an objective metric (scale weight/measurements/clothes/visual assessment/etc) and depending on the outcome, you adjust intake accordingly to add to that running average.

    If anyone took the Thanksgiving holiday as a refeed/maintenance/diet break period, then hopefully it was a mental relief. If you're like me, you splurge the day of and repeat days of eating leftovers just tends to taper down in volume and indulgence as monotony sets in. So in the end, it's not too much of a spike.

    Just as an interesting/funny side story, a fb buddy decided to surpass his previous victory of eating 10lbs of turkey, and almost single-handedly demolished a 21lb bird. I don't advise anyone attempt it but it was a source of pride among carnivores lol. And while Martin Berkhan doesn't seem to document the cheesecake life on holidays anymore, the primary takeaway is that a small blip in long term success isn't going to destroy progress as long as the rest of the year is pretty damn stable.

    This is how I've come to feel about holidays and vacations, and I think it's probably the most well-adjusted attitude to have towards them unless you are the type of person who gets sent into a spiral of bad behaviors that are really hard to claw your way out of.

    Regardless, sounds like you had a great weekend!

    I had to limit my indulgence to one day because the over consumption of that macro mix and my IBS did not play well together. Since the leftovers still consisted of that macro mix, discretion was the better part of valor and I noped out of them, mainly because I wanted some time with my family this past weekend that wasn't spent in the smallest room of the house :o

    Scale is still up from my lowest by 3 pounds, but down 3 pounds from what it was yesterday. Yes, it was up by 6 pounds from my lowest, even though I've been eating at deficit since Friday. This is fairly normal for how my body reacts, so I'm not terribly surprised.

    Meanwhile, my thyroid has been ruled out as the cause of what's going on with me. It is in fact, slightly on the over active side. My dosage was once again lowered just slightly. This has been an ongoing thing ever since my thyroid went crazy a couple years back and stopped responding to med doses. At that point, we went through a spell of constantly titrating the doses ever upward. The process took more than a year before I finally normalized and we added almost a 100mcg more to my dosage at that time. I stabilized at that point for a while, and then I started exercising and losing weight, and my thyroid's been running hot ever since.

    Anyway, the fatigue and being slow to recover continues, so I can only assume it's a psoriatic arthritis flare. Nothing to do for one of those but continued milder forms of exercise, good nutrition and sleep hygiene, and waiting it out.

    And you make a great point here also. Celebrations are usually food-centric in the modern world where the actual reason for most events are to be focused on people. Granted, we all have relatives we'd rather not see, but I'm also of the mind that as adults, we truly don't need to interact with them or give any priority to certain people if we don't want to. Hell, if you don't want to see family then you're perfectly okay with spending downtime with people you choose to be around vs feeling obligated to see relatives.

    My logic wants to tie the recovery/fatigue to the thyroid condition as well, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to make a complete hypothesis, but I will advocate the pulsing of tolerable activity, nutrition, and rest.
  • Nony_Mouse
    Nony_Mouse Posts: 5,646 Member
    Archaeologist says celebrations have been food-centric for a very, very long time.

    Speaking of food, I think today is going to be largely fruit and protein shakes. Two of the things I'd normally have as snacks at work are off the table (three, if you count the nixing of the recently introduced grapefruit), plus I'm just not that interested in eating anything else.
  • anubis609
    anubis609 Posts: 3,966 Member
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    Archaeologist says celebrations have been food-centric for a very, very long time.

    Speaking of food, I think today is going to be largely fruit and protein shakes. Two of the things I'd normally have as snacks at work are off the table (three, if you count the nixing of the recently introduced grapefruit), plus I'm just not that interested in eating anything else.

    I can't argue with the archaeologist.. but I'm also under the impression that historical man has usually been with their tribe/group for a large duration of their lives, or were they also like modern society where small groups/individuals stayed to themselves and members would gather from a distance to a singular meeting place?

    In context, I'm trying to pin the obligation to gather among people where food became the escape from interaction, or that food became the primary focus with disregard for socialization.
  • kimny72
    kimny72 Posts: 16,027 Member
    anubis609 wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    I missed ALOT of this thread recently and wanted to catch up:

    First, I am supposedly an INFP-T. I haven't had time to read all the backup info, but the 93% introverted seems a little low LOL. I guess it's not a surprise that many of us communicating here on the interwebs are introverted. Hopefully you will all appreciate when someday I post my Manifesto right here in the MFP forums!

    Figured I should post a pic of my dearly departed Simon, no current kitties as I can't afford all the extra fees for an animal in my apartment right now :(
    8mh45mr3ys8i.jpg

    Purposefully eating a bit under my normal 250 deficit during the week and then eating maintenance on the weekend is still helping with compliance, and my usual fluctuation between 126-131 lbs (for like the last year!) has suddenly changed to 124.5-129 lbs. While possibly a statistical anomaly, I have decided to consider that twitch of the scale a success and carry on with this pattern. Until the last week of the year, where all the holidays plus my birthday will probably mean not logging and vaguely trying to stay in spitting distance of maintenance :lol:

    Loving the hiking, cat, and doggo pics and the continuing discussion! Best thread on MFP, kudos

    As long as your manifesto involves paranoid conspiracy theories, it's fine by me :lol:

    Sorry for the loss of your buddy and to everyone who has also experienced a loss.

    But, I suppose I should introduce my gluttonous bulldog of a cat, Snickers AKA #captainasshole

    He's my inner fat boy personified

    nqvhfprz4rd0.png

    Aw, Simon and Snickers are kind of twinsies!
  • Nony_Mouse
    Nony_Mouse Posts: 5,646 Member
    anubis609 wrote: »
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    Archaeologist says celebrations have been food-centric for a very, very long time.

    Speaking of food, I think today is going to be largely fruit and protein shakes. Two of the things I'd normally have as snacks at work are off the table (three, if you count the nixing of the recently introduced grapefruit), plus I'm just not that interested in eating anything else.

    I can't argue with the archaeologist.. but I'm also under the impression that historical man people have usually been with their tribe/group for a large duration of their lives, or were they also like modern society where small groups/individuals stayed to themselves and members would gather from a distance to a singular meeting place?

    In context, I'm trying to pin the obligation to gather among people where food became the escape from interaction, or that food became the primary focus with disregard for socialization.

    Based on archaeological evidence, and off the top of my very non-functioning brain, it would appear that tribes would gather together for large celebrations/events (think harvest ceremonies, funerals, marriages between tribes...).

    As to food being an escape from interaction/socialisation, alas one of those things not visible in the archaeological record! But I would say food was part of interaction/socialisation, and a very important part, often as a display of wealth. Or to appease the gods.
  • Nony_Mouse
    Nony_Mouse Posts: 5,646 Member
    I've been reading this discuss as it goes along plus the information provided. Definitely going to reexamine refeeds, as prior it was only about a 2 day up to maintenance affair. Towards 8 weeks into a cut my joints start aching, but they don't when I'm in bulking mode. Wonder if a 2 week refeed would alleviate that. Guess I'll find out next spring.

    Here's my little miss wondering why I stopped scratching behind her ears and what I was doing with my phone.





    Gorgeous pup!!

    And two weeks is a diet break ;)
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
    @piperdown44, anecdotally, I thought I'd share my experience with doing refeeds.

    I have both psoriatic and osteo arthritis. I've been in a psoriatic arthritis flare since starting doing refeeds, but I will say this much: the symptoms I'm experiencing are better for doing the weekly refeeds than they had been when I was just doing constant deficit eating.

    My flares can last a long time. I'm into about my sixth week on this one. I'm thinking of taking a full two week diet break around Christmas.
  • anubis609
    anubis609 Posts: 3,966 Member
    edited November 2017
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    anubis609 wrote: »
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    Archaeologist says celebrations have been food-centric for a very, very long time.

    Speaking of food, I think today is going to be largely fruit and protein shakes. Two of the things I'd normally have as snacks at work are off the table (three, if you count the nixing of the recently introduced grapefruit), plus I'm just not that interested in eating anything else.

    I can't argue with the archaeologist.. but I'm also under the impression that historical man people have usually been with their tribe/group for a large duration of their lives, or were they also like modern society where small groups/individuals stayed to themselves and members would gather from a distance to a singular meeting place?

    In context, I'm trying to pin the obligation to gather among people where food became the escape from interaction, or that food became the primary focus with disregard for socialization.

    Based on archaeological evidence, and off the top of my very non-functioning brain, it would appear that tribes would gather together for large celebrations/events (think harvest ceremonies, funerals, marriages between tribes...).

    As to food being an escape from interaction/socialisation, alas one of those things not visible in the archaeological record! But I would say food was part of interaction/socialisation, and a very important part, often as a display of wealth. Or to appease the gods.

    Thanks for appeasing my curiosity :D I can conceptualize tribes gathering for celebrations, but as a display of wealth is definitely interesting. I suppose it's not much different now since I've witnessed face screaming matches about how to cook "the best" dish.. financial advantage was tossed around quite liberally among those arguments lol.
    I've been reading this discuss as it goes along plus the information provided. Definitely going to reexamine refeeds, as prior it was only about a 2 day up to maintenance affair. Towards 8 weeks into a cut my joints start aching, but they don't when I'm in bulking mode. Wonder if a 2 week refeed would alleviate that. Guess I'll find out next spring.

    Here's my little miss wondering why I stopped scratching behind her ears and what I was doing with my phone.

    l0ytcp5loztu.jpg

    Think of traditional refeeds as a structured/planned carb overfeeding. Prolonged maintenance periods are technically considered breaks from rigid dieting.

    From a physiological standpoint, any cut/deficit is going to be catabolic in nature, so joints tend to ache and recovery is generally crap just because there's not enough nutritional support to promote optimal repair. During a bulk/surplus period, there's more than enough substrate to mitigate tissue breakdown (anabolic by nature) and so we can also generally lift heavier during that time since energy availability is abundant.

    +1 for the pupper!
  • purplebobkat
    purplebobkat Posts: 68 Member
    Just started a 2 week diet break as I've not lost anything for over a month (after losing 89lbs so far).

    Finding it really difficult to eat my maintainance cals & resorted to popcirn tonight. So i currently feel guilty for the popcorn, but good fir hitting maintainance
  • alteredsteve175
    alteredsteve175 Posts: 2,665 Member
    HDBKLM wrote: »
    Right then, so in the name of trying to encourage anybody on this board who is still scared of the idea of temporarily upping calories, let's gloss my case as: 2 week break, ate over maintenance, and even despite having a weak deficit in the first week back post-break still whooshed like a mother.
    anubis609 wrote: »
    As far as addressing the benefit of having a full diet break go beyond 2 weeks, yes, there's a real benefit to having an "indefinite" break.. and that's lifetime maintenance. The ultimate goal for most. Trying to pinpoint a daily maintenance number is a bit of a hat trick since it's a moving target and each day is more or less variable, depending on your daily activity, stress level, cycle, etc. So take the average of what you're eating, compare it to an objective metric (scale weight/measurements/clothes/visual assessment/etc) and depending on the outcome, you adjust intake accordingly to add to that running average.

    Thank you both. Continuing to absorb this concept. Still aiming for onederland by year's end but I think I will take a one-month break in January regardless. Eat at maintenance level and see what happens.