Wheat Belly

pumasareace · December 2017

Wynterbourne wrote: »

pumasareace wrote: »

geneticsteacher wrote: »

"2. Italians die of exactly the same illnesses as the population of the USA, these are caused by lifestyle which in no small part comes down to diet. #1 cause - Heart Disease (excess carbs), #2 Stroke (high blood pressure), #4 Hypertension (excess salt, carbs), #5 Alzheimers (lack of healthy fats), #6 Diabetes (excess carbs), #8 Colo-rectal cancer (lack of digestive health) #10 pancreatic cancer (Obesity, diabetes, lack of vitamin absorbtion). Looking at the UK and USA is a very similar story with an almost identical age spread. You are correct about the cause of death for younger people being through smoking."

In all the years I taught nutrition and after multiple conversations with a cardiologist at The Cleveland Clinic, I can find no evidence that excess carbs cause heart disease.

HRT for menopausal women, Thalidomide in pregnancy, electric shocks for mental illness, no kissing of newborn babies were all once taught. Science is a beautiful thing as it constantly evolves and changes.

High carbohydrate diet is a positive CVD risk factor because it is related with insulin resistance, poor circulation, abdominal fat distribution, high plasma triglycerides level, low HDL cholesterol and oxidative stress. This is high school biology stuff that I am sure they teach at nutrition school.

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/in-depth/carbs-higher-risk-heart-disease-states-leading-cardiologist-dr-salim-yusuf/

https://www.sott.net/article/242516-Heart-surgeon-speaks-out-on-what-really-causes-heart-disease

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2017/03/31/bjsports-2016-097285

https://thenoakesfoundation.org/news/blog/the-low-fat-diet-does-not-prevent-arterial-disease-it-causes-it-prof-noakes

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17093250

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19506174

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16287956

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26178720

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25178568

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29178536

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/106/1/35

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/147/7/1267.abstract?sid=4a3383f9-048b-4040-9f09-d41ebaf08d72

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/10/769

https://www.docsopinion.com/2017/06/13/low-fat-high-carb-insulin-resistance-fatty-liver/

http://www.cochrane.org/CD005051/VASC_whole-grain-cereals-cardiovascular-disease

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/bjsports/51/2/133.full.pdf

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)32252-3/fulltext

http://annals.org/aim/article-abstract/1900694/effects-low-carbohydrate-low-fat-diets-randomized-trial?doi=10.7326/M14-0180

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/15/1111

You can Google the rest. I am not sure where you learnt about nutrition in order to teach people, but I think your knowledge of how the body works is a little out-dated, misunderstood and scary if you are teaching others.

Pot. Kettle.

We could go on all day, but you are providing no evidence or counter argument to anything I have said, that's just not helping your argument. By all means give me examples of where I am at fault or incorrect. I have given 19 different studies that clearly detail the link of excess carbohydrate and CVD and by extension how basic human biology works within the body.

Its really simple, excess carbs = systemic inflammation = arterial inflammation = endothelial legions = VLDL / LDL particles to the rescue = Macrophages to attempt plaque removal = no HDL to remove foam cells = atherosclerosis = CVD = Heart attack / Stroke. And so the cycle goes on...

pumasareace · December 2017

geneticsteacher wrote: »

I did not say the studies were wrong. Have you heard the expression "Correlation does not equal causation"?

Yes, once or twice. I really dont know what to say...

The entire pharmaceutical, medical, science and engineering world revolves around correlation vs causation and statistics. There are numerous methods for clinical research which range from randomised controlled trials to double blind studies to meta-analysis. These are the accepted standard buy the entire international medical community and this is factored into all (credible) trials. Of course nothing is 100% fact but evidence based and repeatable trials help to alleviate bias and 'one-hit-wonder' research from gaining any traction or being published.

russelljam08 · December 2017

pumasareace wrote: »

russelljam08 wrote: »

pumasareace wrote: »

geneticsteacher wrote: »

"2. Italians die of exactly the same illnesses as the population of the USA, these are caused by lifestyle which in no small part comes down to diet. #1 cause - Heart Disease (excess carbs), #2 Stroke (high blood pressure), #4 Hypertension (excess salt, carbs), #5 Alzheimers (lack of healthy fats), #6 Diabetes (excess carbs), #8 Colo-rectal cancer (lack of digestive health) #10 pancreatic cancer (Obesity, diabetes, lack of vitamin absorbtion). Looking at the UK and USA is a very similar story with an almost identical age spread. You are correct about the cause of death for younger people being through smoking."

In all the years I taught nutrition and after multiple conversations with a cardiologist at The Cleveland Clinic, I can find no evidence that excess carbs cause heart disease.

HRT for menopausal women, Thalidomide in pregnancy, electric shocks for mental illness, no kissing of newborn babies were all once taught. Science is a beautiful thing as it constantly evolves and changes.

High carbohydrate diet is a positive CVD risk factor because it is related with insulin resistance, poor circulation, abdominal fat distribution, high plasma triglycerides level, low HDL cholesterol and oxidative stress. This is high school biology stuff that I am sure they teach at nutrition school.

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/in-depth/carbs-higher-risk-heart-disease-states-leading-cardiologist-dr-salim-yusuf/

https://www.sott.net/article/242516-Heart-surgeon-speaks-out-on-what-really-causes-heart-disease

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2017/03/31/bjsports-2016-097285

https://thenoakesfoundation.org/news/blog/the-low-fat-diet-does-not-prevent-arterial-disease-it-causes-it-prof-noakes

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17093250

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19506174

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16287956

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26178720

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25178568

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29178536

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/106/1/35

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/147/7/1267.abstract?sid=4a3383f9-048b-4040-9f09-d41ebaf08d72

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/10/769

https://www.docsopinion.com/2017/06/13/low-fat-high-carb-insulin-resistance-fatty-liver/

http://www.cochrane.org/CD005051/VASC_whole-grain-cereals-cardiovascular-disease

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/bjsports/51/2/133.full.pdf

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)32252-3/fulltext

http://annals.org/aim/article-abstract/1900694/effects-low-carbohydrate-low-fat-diets-randomized-trial?doi=10.7326/M14-0180

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/15/1111

You can Google the rest. I am not sure where you learnt about nutrition in order to teach people, but I think your knowledge of how the body works is a little out-dated, misunderstood and scary if you are teaching others.

Longest living and healthiest populations all eat high carb/low fat diets. I think you don't even know the basics bro. I'll just leave this here.#byefelicia

Well the graph has just left me without a leg to stand on. Why didnt I think of that? Joking aside I will look into the Okinawa study as that sounds really interesting, although the devil is always in the detail.

Also, look into the Blue Zones and traditional cultures like Ewe Tribe and Tukisenta(90%+ carb diets), Kitavans(70% carbs) etc.

J72FIT · December 2017

pumasareace wrote: »

Its really simple

IMO this is where your argument falls apart...

psuLemon · December 2017

pumasareace wrote: »

geneticsteacher wrote: »

"2. Italians die of exactly the same illnesses as the population of the USA, these are caused by lifestyle which in no small part comes down to diet. #1 cause - Heart Disease (excess carbs), #2 Stroke (high blood pressure), #4 Hypertension (excess salt, carbs), #5 Alzheimers (lack of healthy fats), #6 Diabetes (excess carbs), #8 Colo-rectal cancer (lack of digestive health) #10 pancreatic cancer (Obesity, diabetes, lack of vitamin absorbtion). Looking at the UK and USA is a very similar story with an almost identical age spread. You are correct about the cause of death for younger people being through smoking."

In all the years I taught nutrition and after multiple conversations with a cardiologist at The Cleveland Clinic, I can find no evidence that excess carbs cause heart disease.

HRT for menopausal women, Thalidomide in pregnancy, electric shocks for mental illness, no kissing of newborn babies were all once taught. Science is a beautiful thing as it constantly evolves and changes.

High carbohydrate diet is a positive CVD risk factor because it is related with insulin resistance, poor circulation, abdominal fat distribution, high plasma triglycerides level, low HDL cholesterol and oxidative stress. This is high school biology stuff that I am sure they teach at nutrition school.

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/in-depth/carbs-higher-risk-heart-disease-states-leading-cardiologist-dr-salim-yusuf/

https://www.sott.net/article/242516-Heart-surgeon-speaks-out-on-what-really-causes-heart-disease

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2017/03/31/bjsports-2016-097285

https://thenoakesfoundation.org/news/blog/the-low-fat-diet-does-not-prevent-arterial-disease-it-causes-it-prof-noakes

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17093250

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19506174

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16287956

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26178720

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25178568

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29178536

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/106/1/35

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/147/7/1267.abstract?sid=4a3383f9-048b-4040-9f09-d41ebaf08d72

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/10/769

https://www.docsopinion.com/2017/06/13/low-fat-high-carb-insulin-resistance-fatty-liver/

http://www.cochrane.org/CD005051/VASC_whole-grain-cereals-cardiovascular-disease

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/bjsports/51/2/133.full.pdf

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)32252-3/fulltext

http://annals.org/aim/article-abstract/1900694/effects-low-carbohydrate-low-fat-diets-randomized-trial?doi=10.7326/M14-0180

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/15/1111

You can Google the rest. I am not sure where you learnt about nutrition in order to teach people, but I think your knowledge of how the body works is a little out-dated, misunderstood and scary if you are teaching others.

Have you read and understood these studies? If so, which studies demonstrate your hypothesis that carbs increase the risk to 1 - 10 (because there is NOT one single organization that links carbs to diabetes) and how are they delineating between increases to poor metabolic health driven by carbs vs obesity, lack of exercises and genetics? Because if you look at the healthiest places in the world, and the most regarded diets, they are largely carb and plant based; as noted, look at the blue zones, Mediterranean diet and plant based diets.

At best, most of your links support replacing carbs with plant based MUFA as a means to improve health; which this demonstrates that certain fats improve health and not that carbs are bad. In fact, it's very well known and not disputed that foods like oily fish (rich in Omega-3), avocado's and nuts, and olive oil are all linked improved health markers. But the same can be said about fruits, veggies and oats/whole grains.

snowflake954 · December 2017

pumasareace wrote: »

Sure Italians die--but at what age compared to Americans? I say Americans since you compared the population of the US to Italians. Have you ever traveled here and looked around, seen the natives, so to speak? As for gluten free, yes it's reared it's expensive little head. We'll see how long it lasts. Who knows, with my "leaky gut" I may not live to see it recede.

Very similar ages to Americans, its all in the links...

This is not true--what about the blue zones? You can quote studies all you want--I LIVE here and know what I see, and carbs are "gasp" cheap and very healthy for people that are not allergic to them. Statistics can easily be scewed. The obesity stats on the Italian population usually includes children. For cultural reasons, Italians like fat kids. They normally slim down as they grow into adolescence. Come to Italy, it might just change your mind.

lemurcat12 · December 2017

pumasareace wrote: »

geneticsteacher wrote: »

"2. Italians die of exactly the same illnesses as the population of the USA, these are caused by lifestyle which in no small part comes down to diet. #1 cause - Heart Disease (excess carbs), #2 Stroke (high blood pressure), #4 Hypertension (excess salt, carbs), #5 Alzheimers (lack of healthy fats), #6 Diabetes (excess carbs), #8 Colo-rectal cancer (lack of digestive health) #10 pancreatic cancer (Obesity, diabetes, lack of vitamin absorbtion). Looking at the UK and USA is a very similar story with an almost identical age spread. You are correct about the cause of death for younger people being through smoking."

In all the years I taught nutrition and after multiple conversations with a cardiologist at The Cleveland Clinic, I can find no evidence that excess carbs cause heart disease.

HRT for menopausal women, Thalidomide in pregnancy, electric shocks for mental illness, no kissing of newborn babies were all once taught. Science is a beautiful thing as it constantly evolves and changes.

High carbohydrate diet is a positive CVD risk factor because it is related with insulin resistance, poor circulation, abdominal fat distribution, high plasma triglycerides level, low HDL cholesterol and oxidative stress. This is high school biology stuff that I am sure they teach at nutrition school.

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/in-depth/carbs-higher-risk-heart-disease-states-leading-cardiologist-dr-salim-yusuf/

https://www.sott.net/article/242516-Heart-surgeon-speaks-out-on-what-really-causes-heart-disease

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2017/03/31/bjsports-2016-097285

https://thenoakesfoundation.org/news/blog/the-low-fat-diet-does-not-prevent-arterial-disease-it-causes-it-prof-noakes

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17093250

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19506174

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16287956

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26178720

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25178568

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29178536

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/106/1/35

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/147/7/1267.abstract?sid=4a3383f9-048b-4040-9f09-d41ebaf08d72

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/10/769

https://www.docsopinion.com/2017/06/13/low-fat-high-carb-insulin-resistance-fatty-liver/

http://www.cochrane.org/CD005051/VASC_whole-grain-cereals-cardiovascular-disease

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/bjsports/51/2/133.full.pdf

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)32252-3/fulltext

http://annals.org/aim/article-abstract/1900694/effects-low-carbohydrate-low-fat-diets-randomized-trial?doi=10.7326/M14-0180

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/15/1111

You can Google the rest. I am not sure where you learnt about nutrition in order to teach people, but I think your knowledge of how the body works is a little out-dated, misunderstood and scary if you are teaching others.

This looks like a technique of "if I just link a bunch of things people will assume they support my claim." They don't. If you are actually sincere, a better approach is picking a couple and discussing why you think they say what you claim they say.

Looking at the links, the first is about the recent study that https Salim Yusuf was involved in, and it does not show that carbs cause diabetes or heart disease. What it shows is that eating plain white rice as your main source of carbs, protein, and fat (which suggests some other issues with food availability) is not healthy.
See https://www.thenutritionwonk.com/single-post/2017/08/29/The-5-Continent-PURE-Study-A-Prospective-Cohort-Study

The second is an opinion piece by a heart surgeon who has no reason to know more than the various heart surgeons promoting low fat/WFPB or, what I consider more reliable, the nutrition experts like Walter Willett and many others. Also, he doesn't even say what you claim, but asserts: "the overload of simple, highly processed carbohydrates (sugar, flour and all the products made from them) and the excess consumption of omega-6 vegetable oils like soybean, corn and sunflower that are found in many processed foods." That's not "carbs, all carbs, cause heart disease." Also, it's well known that veg and fruit are anti inflammatory and animal products tend to be inflammatory.

The third is an opinion bit by Tim Noakes. That's just silly.

The next says that a low carb diet (how low?) doesn't have any ill effects based on a longitudinal study. I suspect that's true. A low fat diet also does not, and high veg and fruit intake and vegetarian diets are positive (which I do not believe is because they reduce meat). If you look at the overall studies from the Nurse's study (which this is part of), they do not support the idea that "carbs" are bad or that we'd all be better off lowering them.

The next few are short term specific diet interventions, doesn't mean much.

Again, if there is one you actually think supports your claims, let's discuss it, right now it just looks like you are citing a bunch of stuff that doesn't and hoping that with enough numbers people won't challenge you (or read the citations).

GottaBurnEmAll · December 2017

lemurcat12 wrote: »

pumasareace wrote: »

geneticsteacher wrote: »

"2. Italians die of exactly the same illnesses as the population of the USA, these are caused by lifestyle which in no small part comes down to diet. #1 cause - Heart Disease (excess carbs), #2 Stroke (high blood pressure), #4 Hypertension (excess salt, carbs), #5 Alzheimers (lack of healthy fats), #6 Diabetes (excess carbs), #8 Colo-rectal cancer (lack of digestive health) #10 pancreatic cancer (Obesity, diabetes, lack of vitamin absorbtion). Looking at the UK and USA is a very similar story with an almost identical age spread. You are correct about the cause of death for younger people being through smoking."

In all the years I taught nutrition and after multiple conversations with a cardiologist at The Cleveland Clinic, I can find no evidence that excess carbs cause heart disease.

HRT for menopausal women, Thalidomide in pregnancy, electric shocks for mental illness, no kissing of newborn babies were all once taught. Science is a beautiful thing as it constantly evolves and changes.

High carbohydrate diet is a positive CVD risk factor because it is related with insulin resistance, poor circulation, abdominal fat distribution, high plasma triglycerides level, low HDL cholesterol and oxidative stress. This is high school biology stuff that I am sure they teach at nutrition school.

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/in-depth/carbs-higher-risk-heart-disease-states-leading-cardiologist-dr-salim-yusuf/

https://www.sott.net/article/242516-Heart-surgeon-speaks-out-on-what-really-causes-heart-disease

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2017/03/31/bjsports-2016-097285

https://thenoakesfoundation.org/news/blog/the-low-fat-diet-does-not-prevent-arterial-disease-it-causes-it-prof-noakes

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17093250

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19506174

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16287956

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26178720

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25178568

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29178536

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/106/1/35

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/147/7/1267.abstract?sid=4a3383f9-048b-4040-9f09-d41ebaf08d72

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/10/769

https://www.docsopinion.com/2017/06/13/low-fat-high-carb-insulin-resistance-fatty-liver/

http://www.cochrane.org/CD005051/VASC_whole-grain-cereals-cardiovascular-disease

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/bjsports/51/2/133.full.pdf

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)32252-3/fulltext

http://annals.org/aim/article-abstract/1900694/effects-low-carbohydrate-low-fat-diets-randomized-trial?doi=10.7326/M14-0180

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/15/1111

You can Google the rest. I am not sure where you learnt about nutrition in order to teach people, but I think your knowledge of how the body works is a little out-dated, misunderstood and scary if you are teaching others.

This looks like a technique of "if I just link a bunch of things people will assume they support my claim." They don't. If you are actually sincere, a better approach is picking a couple and discussing why you think they say what you claim they say.

Looking at the links, the first is about the recent study that https Salim Yusuf was involved in, and it does not show that carbs cause diabetes or heart disease. What it shows is that eating plain white rice as your main source of carbs, protein, and fat (which suggests some other issues with food availability) is not healthy.
See https://www.thenutritionwonk.com/single-post/2017/08/29/The-5-Continent-PURE-Study-A-Prospective-Cohort-Study

The second is an opinion piece by a heart surgeon who has no reason to know more than the various heart surgeons promoting low fat/WFPB or, what I consider more reliable, the nutrition experts like Walter Willett and many others. Also, he doesn't even say what you claim, but asserts: "the overload of simple, highly processed carbohydrates (sugar, flour and all the products made from them) and the excess consumption of omega-6 vegetable oils like soybean, corn and sunflower that are found in many processed foods." That's not "carbs, all carbs, cause heart disease." Also, it's well known that veg and fruit are anti inflammatory and animal products tend to be inflammatory.

The third is an opinion bit by Tim Noakes. That's just silly.

The next says that a low carb diet (how low?) doesn't have any ill effects based on a longitudinal study. I suspect that's true. A low fat diet also does not, and high veg and fruit intake and vegetarian diets are positive (which I do not believe is because they reduce meat). If you look at the overall studies from the Nurse's study (which this is part of), they do not support the idea that "carbs" are bad or that we'd all be better off lowering them.

The next few are short term specific diet interventions, doesn't mean much.

Again, if there is one you actually think supports your claims, let's discuss it, right now it just looks like you are citing a bunch of stuff that doesn't and hoping that with enough numbers people won't challenge you (or read the citations).

In some alternate universe, I can just wait all day to fetch coffee for you to give you more time to write posts like this.

TR0berts · December 2017

lemurcat12 wrote: »

pumasareace wrote: »

geneticsteacher wrote: »

"2. Italians die of exactly the same illnesses as the population of the USA, these are caused by lifestyle which in no small part comes down to diet. #1 cause - Heart Disease (excess carbs), #2 Stroke (high blood pressure), #4 Hypertension (excess salt, carbs), #5 Alzheimers (lack of healthy fats), #6 Diabetes (excess carbs), #8 Colo-rectal cancer (lack of digestive health) #10 pancreatic cancer (Obesity, diabetes, lack of vitamin absorbtion). Looking at the UK and USA is a very similar story with an almost identical age spread. You are correct about the cause of death for younger people being through smoking."

In all the years I taught nutrition and after multiple conversations with a cardiologist at The Cleveland Clinic, I can find no evidence that excess carbs cause heart disease.

HRT for menopausal women, Thalidomide in pregnancy, electric shocks for mental illness, no kissing of newborn babies were all once taught. Science is a beautiful thing as it constantly evolves and changes.

High carbohydrate diet is a positive CVD risk factor because it is related with insulin resistance, poor circulation, abdominal fat distribution, high plasma triglycerides level, low HDL cholesterol and oxidative stress. This is high school biology stuff that I am sure they teach at nutrition school.

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/in-depth/carbs-higher-risk-heart-disease-states-leading-cardiologist-dr-salim-yusuf/

https://www.sott.net/article/242516-Heart-surgeon-speaks-out-on-what-really-causes-heart-disease

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2017/03/31/bjsports-2016-097285

https://thenoakesfoundation.org/news/blog/the-low-fat-diet-does-not-prevent-arterial-disease-it-causes-it-prof-noakes

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17093250

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19506174

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16287956

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26178720

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25178568

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29178536

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/106/1/35

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/147/7/1267.abstract?sid=4a3383f9-048b-4040-9f09-d41ebaf08d72

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/10/769

https://www.docsopinion.com/2017/06/13/low-fat-high-carb-insulin-resistance-fatty-liver/

http://www.cochrane.org/CD005051/VASC_whole-grain-cereals-cardiovascular-disease

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/bjsports/51/2/133.full.pdf

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)32252-3/fulltext

http://annals.org/aim/article-abstract/1900694/effects-low-carbohydrate-low-fat-diets-randomized-trial?doi=10.7326/M14-0180

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/15/1111

You can Google the rest. I am not sure where you learnt about nutrition in order to teach people, but I think your knowledge of how the body works is a little out-dated, misunderstood and scary if you are teaching others.

This looks like a technique of "if I just link a bunch of things people will assume they support my claim." They don't. If you are actually sincere, a better approach is picking a couple and discussing why you think they say what you claim they say.

...

Again, if there is one you actually think supports your claims, let's discuss it, right now it just looks like you are citing a bunch of stuff that doesn't and hoping that with enough numbers people won't challenge you (or read the citations).

Kinda like going to livestrong.

'Here's an article we wrote about some new fad greatness! Hey - here's some links to some sciencey-looking websites, including a study done on this fad! Oh, don't read them - because they say the exact opposite of what we're saying; and/or simply don't support our claims.'

mmapags · December 2017

GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

pumasareace wrote: »

geneticsteacher wrote: »

"2. Italians die of exactly the same illnesses as the population of the USA, these are caused by lifestyle which in no small part comes down to diet. #1 cause - Heart Disease (excess carbs), #2 Stroke (high blood pressure), #4 Hypertension (excess salt, carbs), #5 Alzheimers (lack of healthy fats), #6 Diabetes (excess carbs), #8 Colo-rectal cancer (lack of digestive health) #10 pancreatic cancer (Obesity, diabetes, lack of vitamin absorbtion). Looking at the UK and USA is a very similar story with an almost identical age spread. You are correct about the cause of death for younger people being through smoking."

In all the years I taught nutrition and after multiple conversations with a cardiologist at The Cleveland Clinic, I can find no evidence that excess carbs cause heart disease.

HRT for menopausal women, Thalidomide in pregnancy, electric shocks for mental illness, no kissing of newborn babies were all once taught. Science is a beautiful thing as it constantly evolves and changes.

High carbohydrate diet is a positive CVD risk factor because it is related with insulin resistance, poor circulation, abdominal fat distribution, high plasma triglycerides level, low HDL cholesterol and oxidative stress. This is high school biology stuff that I am sure they teach at nutrition school.

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/in-depth/carbs-higher-risk-heart-disease-states-leading-cardiologist-dr-salim-yusuf/

https://www.sott.net/article/242516-Heart-surgeon-speaks-out-on-what-really-causes-heart-disease

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2017/03/31/bjsports-2016-097285

https://thenoakesfoundation.org/news/blog/the-low-fat-diet-does-not-prevent-arterial-disease-it-causes-it-prof-noakes

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17093250

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19506174

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16287956

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26178720

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25178568

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29178536

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/106/1/35

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/147/7/1267.abstract?sid=4a3383f9-048b-4040-9f09-d41ebaf08d72

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/10/769

https://www.docsopinion.com/2017/06/13/low-fat-high-carb-insulin-resistance-fatty-liver/

http://www.cochrane.org/CD005051/VASC_whole-grain-cereals-cardiovascular-disease

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/bjsports/51/2/133.full.pdf

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)32252-3/fulltext

http://annals.org/aim/article-abstract/1900694/effects-low-carbohydrate-low-fat-diets-randomized-trial?doi=10.7326/M14-0180

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/15/1111

You can Google the rest. I am not sure where you learnt about nutrition in order to teach people, but I think your knowledge of how the body works is a little out-dated, misunderstood and scary if you are teaching others.

This looks like a technique of "if I just link a bunch of things people will assume they support my claim." They don't. If you are actually sincere, a better approach is picking a couple and discussing why you think they say what you claim they say.

Looking at the links, the first is about the recent study that https Salim Yusuf was involved in, and it does not show that carbs cause diabetes or heart disease. What it shows is that eating plain white rice as your main source of carbs, protein, and fat (which suggests some other issues with food availability) is not healthy.
See https://www.thenutritionwonk.com/single-post/2017/08/29/The-5-Continent-PURE-Study-A-Prospective-Cohort-Study

The second is an opinion piece by a heart surgeon who has no reason to know more than the various heart surgeons promoting low fat/WFPB or, what I consider more reliable, the nutrition experts like Walter Willett and many others. Also, he doesn't even say what you claim, but asserts: "the overload of simple, highly processed carbohydrates (sugar, flour and all the products made from them) and the excess consumption of omega-6 vegetable oils like soybean, corn and sunflower that are found in many processed foods." That's not "carbs, all carbs, cause heart disease." Also, it's well known that veg and fruit are anti inflammatory and animal products tend to be inflammatory.

The third is an opinion bit by Tim Noakes. That's just silly.

The next says that a low carb diet (how low?) doesn't have any ill effects based on a longitudinal study. I suspect that's true. A low fat diet also does not, and high veg and fruit intake and vegetarian diets are positive (which I do not believe is because they reduce meat). If you look at the overall studies from the Nurse's study (which this is part of), they do not support the idea that "carbs" are bad or that we'd all be better off lowering them.

The next few are short term specific diet interventions, doesn't mean much.

Again, if there is one you actually think supports your claims, let's discuss it, right now it just looks like you are citing a bunch of stuff that doesn't and hoping that with enough numbers people won't challenge you (or read the citations).

In some alternate universe, I can just wait all day to fetch coffee for you to give you more time to write posts like this.

I'll be your relief shift! Pure awesomeness right there.

pumasareace · December 2017

This could go on for a while....

RuNaRoUnDaFiEld · December 2017

psuLemon wrote: »

pumasareace wrote: »

geneticsteacher wrote: »

"2. Italians die of exactly the same illnesses as the population of the USA, these are caused by lifestyle which in no small part comes down to diet. #1 cause - Heart Disease (excess carbs), #2 Stroke (high blood pressure), #4 Hypertension (excess salt, carbs), #5 Alzheimers (lack of healthy fats), #6 Diabetes (excess carbs), #8 Colo-rectal cancer (lack of digestive health) #10 pancreatic cancer (Obesity, diabetes, lack of vitamin absorbtion). Looking at the UK and USA is a very similar story with an almost identical age spread. You are correct about the cause of death for younger people being through smoking."

In all the years I taught nutrition and after multiple conversations with a cardiologist at The Cleveland Clinic, I can find no evidence that excess carbs cause heart disease.

HRT for menopausal women, Thalidomide in pregnancy, electric shocks for mental illness, no kissing of newborn babies were all once taught. Science is a beautiful thing as it constantly evolves and changes.

High carbohydrate diet is a positive CVD risk factor because it is related with insulin resistance, poor circulation, abdominal fat distribution, high plasma triglycerides level, low HDL cholesterol and oxidative stress. This is high school biology stuff that I am sure they teach at nutrition school.

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/in-depth/carbs-higher-risk-heart-disease-states-leading-cardiologist-dr-salim-yusuf/

https://www.sott.net/article/242516-Heart-surgeon-speaks-out-on-what-really-causes-heart-disease

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2017/03/31/bjsports-2016-097285

https://thenoakesfoundation.org/news/blog/the-low-fat-diet-does-not-prevent-arterial-disease-it-causes-it-prof-noakes

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17093250

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19506174

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16287956

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26178720

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25178568

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29178536

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/106/1/35

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/147/7/1267.abstract?sid=4a3383f9-048b-4040-9f09-d41ebaf08d72

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/10/769

https://www.docsopinion.com/2017/06/13/low-fat-high-carb-insulin-resistance-fatty-liver/

http://www.cochrane.org/CD005051/VASC_whole-grain-cereals-cardiovascular-disease

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/bjsports/51/2/133.full.pdf

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)32252-3/fulltext

http://annals.org/aim/article-abstract/1900694/effects-low-carbohydrate-low-fat-diets-randomized-trial?doi=10.7326/M14-0180

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/15/1111

You can Google the rest. I am not sure where you learnt about nutrition in order to teach people, but I think your knowledge of how the body works is a little out-dated, misunderstood and scary if you are teaching others.

Have you read and understood these studies? If so, which studies demonstrate your hypothesis that carbs increase the risk to 1 - 10 (because there is NOT one single organization that links carbs to diabetes) and how are they delineating between increases to poor metabolic health driven by carbs vs obesity, lack of exercises and genetics? Because if you look at the healthiest places in the world, and the most regarded diets, they are largely carb and plant based; as noted, look at the blue zones, Mediterranean diet and plant based diets.

At best, most of your links support replacing carbs with plant based MUFA as a means to improve health; which this demonstrates that certain fats improve health and not that carbs are bad. In fact, it's very well known and not disputed that foods like oily fish (rich in Omega-3), avocado's and nuts, and olive oil are all linked improved health markers. But the same can be said about fruits, veggies and oats/whole grains.

You and @lemurcat12 are amazing human beings!

I looked at that post and went, sod it, lifes too short.

pumasareace · December 2017

The joys of a teething 1 year old in the small hours and nothing else to do

WinoGelato · December 2017

pumasareace wrote: »

The joys of a teething 1 year old in the small hours and nothing else to do

Sorry about the kiddo, but did you care to respond to the people who took time to review your links and posed some well thought out questions?

dfein001 · December 2017

georgyporcupine wrote: »

I bought it... Have yet to read it... I really like pizza though so probably just not gonna read it

Darn straight! Pizza is life!

psuLemon · December 2017

pumasareace wrote: »

The joys of a teething 1 year old in the small hours and nothing else to do

I got time as well, i have a 2 year old and 3 week old. And i am off work for a few weeks

WinoGelato · December 2017

psuLemon wrote: »

pumasareace wrote: »

The joys of a teething 1 year old in the small hours and nothing else to do

I got time as well, i have a 2 year old and 3 week old. And i am off work for a few weeks

Off topic but congrats on the new bebe!

livisuzanne · December 2017

I have celiac and had to stop eating gluten 14 years ago. It sucked. There weren't great alternatives then, and I kept trying to eat gluten hoping it was all just a myth, or a misunderstanding, but it was definitely not.
About 5 years ago someone was talking to my mom about the " dangers of wheat," and my mom assumed it had to do with an allergy and mentioned that I was gluten-free. The conversation got weird. She told us all about this book, and asked me how much weight I'd lost on my "diet." I borrowed the book from someone to see if it had any useful information, and I concluded quickly that it did not.
I would never have chosen to give up gluten if it wasn't medically necessary. The reason I felt so much better when I stopped eating gluten was because my body cannot process it. I personally believe that if you don't have a reason to stop eating wheat, it isn't worth it.

Unknown · December 2017

This content has been removed.

GottaBurnEmAll · December 2017

WinoGelato wrote: »

psuLemon wrote: »

pumasareace wrote: »

The joys of a teething 1 year old in the small hours and nothing else to do

I got time as well, i have a 2 year old and 3 week old. And i am off work for a few weeks

Off topic but congrats on the new bebe!

There's a picture in the refeeds thread, she's adorable!

GottaBurnEmAll · December 2017

livisuzanne wrote: »

I have celiac and had to stop eating gluten 14 years ago. It sucked. There weren't great alternatives then, and I kept trying to eat gluten hoping it was all just a myth, or a misunderstanding, but it was definitely not.
About 5 years ago someone was talking to my mom about the " dangers of wheat," and my mom assumed it had to do with an allergy and mentioned that I was gluten-free. The conversation got weird. She told us all about this book, and asked me how much weight I'd lost on my "diet." I borrowed the book from someone to see if it had any useful information, and I concluded quickly that it did not.
I would never have chosen to give up gluten if it wasn't medically necessary. The reason I felt so much better when I stopped eating gluten was because my body cannot process it. I personally believe that if you don't have a reason to stop eating wheat, it isn't worth it.

I was diagnosed 20 years ago. I feel you on how hard being gluten free used to be back then.

It's funny, I don't avail myself much of the alternatives now, having come to find that life is much better eating foods that are inherently gluten free. What I do appreciate is the increased awareness, and the greater likelihood of there being clear labeling on cross-contaminated products that should be gluten free (like nuts processed on shared equipment).

I agree with you completely. It would not be a choice of mine to give up gluten if it weren't a medical necessity.

GottaBurnEmAll · December 2017

suzannesimmons3 wrote: »

livisuzanne wrote: »

I have celiac and had to stop eating gluten 14 years ago. It sucked. There weren't great alternatives then, and I kept trying to eat gluten hoping it was all just a myth, or a misunderstanding, but it was definitely not.
About 5 years ago someone was talking to my mom about the " dangers of wheat," and my mom assumed it had to do with an allergy and mentioned that I was gluten-free. The conversation got weird. She told us all about this book, and asked me how much weight I'd lost on my "diet." I borrowed the book from someone to see if it had any useful information, and I concluded quickly that it did not.
I would never have chosen to give up gluten if it wasn't medically necessary. The reason I felt so much better when I stopped eating gluten was because my body cannot process it. I personally believe that if you don't have a reason to stop eating wheat, it isn't worth it.

And no matter how hard they try the replacement foods are just odd at best and dire at worst.

That's why I don't bother! There are a few breakfast cereals that I eat, but there are gluteny versions of the same kind (like Rice Krispies, for example) that are just merely made with one ingredient that's easily swapped out or something that's on the order of Kix that's made instead on dedicated equipment. Those don't suffer for being gluten free.

ritzvin · December 2017

I didn't know it was specifically wheat causing the health problems I was trying to fix (painful stomach bloating, throbbing joints, immense fatigue) until trying a low-glycemic diet (based on some other self-help book advice). Turned out a small amount of pasta (was allowed in that diet mixed with other stuff to temper the glycemic load) made me sick, while my body had absolutely no issue with massive amounts of creme brulee (ie sugar)(not allowed on said test diet, but I had made creme brulee in bulk for a dinner party and have no self control). (My skin and sinuses also improved immensely - and these I hadn't been trying to fix with the diet change). If you have some health issues where the symptoms are potentially food intolerance/allergy-caused, then it won't hurt to try an elimination diet and see if they go away). I definitely wouldn't have cut them out if they didn't make me physically suffer. I'm thankfully not so sensitive - after a while I could have smaller amounts without issue (as long as I watch the frequency with which I do it). Bagels and dense chewy breads (ie the stuff that a higher gluten content makes way better) I have to pretty much avoid - even half a bagel = minor symptoms, a full bagel = significant discomfort/pain.

Wheat Belly

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