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Why are most mfp users against holistic nutrition?
Replies
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stevencloser wrote: »
A diet of nothing but broccoli could possibly more detrimental to your health than a diet of nothing but cake.
In terms of HEALTH, context of the entire diet is important, no single food item.
I guess I gave too much credit by assuming the readers had the common sense to deduce that I wasn't referring to a sole diet of either or but thanks for pointing that out *eyeroll*8 -
mrsnattybulking wrote: »
I guess I gave too much credit by assuming the readers had the common sense to deduce that I wasn't referring to a sole diet of either or but thanks for pointing that out *eyeroll*
To be fair, I often see people here using the example of a single food diet when trying to make a point, so I wouldn't automatically assume that someone wasn't referring to a single food diet when saying that cake is worse than broccoli.
If you're talking about two different diets that include all kinds of foods, I'm not sure that the statement that cake is worse than broccoli holds up. If you're not talking about a monodiet, you're basically saying "a diet that includes cake is worse than a diet that includes broccoli," right? But how can we know that? If we're talking about an overall style of eating and not a monodiet, there's so much context we don't know. How many calories are involved? What other foods are involved? Are nutrient needs being met overall?
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janejellyroll wrote: »
To be fair, I often see people here using the example of a single food diet when trying to make a point, so I wouldn't automatically assume that someone wasn't referring to a single food diet when saying that cake is worse than broccoli.
If you're talking about two different diets that include all kinds of foods, I'm not sure that the statement that cake is worse than broccoli holds up. If you're not talking about a monodiet, you're basically saying "a diet that includes cake is worse than a diet that includes broccoli," right? But how can we know that? If we're talking about an overall style of eating and not a monodiet, there's so much context we don't know. How many calories are involved? What other foods are involved? Are nutrient needs being met overall?
I track my micros and include all foods. I am active enough to eat 1800-2K and lose weight if I need to but if you're sedentary and eating a poverty macro diet of 1200 calories it's damn near impossible to hit micros if you're including nutritionally questionable foods tbh. For weight loss it matters 0, but if one were inclined to care about other factors (such as overall health) I would re-consider my food choices or put in some work so I could have discretionary calories.3 -
I struggle on 1800 in some areas and my diet is pretty clean most of the time.
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mrsnattybulking wrote: »
I track my micros and include all foods. I am active enough to eat 1800-2K and lose weight if I need to but if you're sedentary and eating a poverty macro diet of 1200 calories it's damn near impossible to hit micros if you're including nutritionally questionable foods tbh. For weight loss it matters 0, but if one were inclined to care about other factors (such as overall health) I would re-consider my food choices or put in some work so I could have discretionary calories.
I didn't know we were working from the default of a sedentary person with a goal of 1,200. Sorry for missing that context.2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
I didn't know we were working from the default of a sedentary person with a goal of 1,200. Sorry for missing that context.
It's difficult on 1800 too if I'm not mindful of how many discretionary calories I have daily.0 -
mrsnattybulking wrote: »
I track my micros and include all foods. I am active enough to eat 1800-2K and lose weight if I need to but if you're sedentary and eating a poverty macro diet of 1200 calories it's damn near impossible to hit micros if you're including nutritionally questionable foods tbh. For weight loss it matters 0, but if one were inclined to care about other factors (such as overall health) I would re-consider my food choices or put in some work so I could have discretionary calories.
Agree, mostly.
But that's why I don't think the "what can you eat on 1200" is the best example always. If you can exercise, it's probably more important for your health (along with being a healthy weight) than any particular food choice, so if someone chooses to be sedentary and then says they can't eat cake because health, I'm skeptical. (On the other hand, I almost never eat cake because I like it okay, but not enough for the calories. Pie or ice cream, on the other hand...) ;-)
Also, I did 1200, and it was possible to get in many MORE vegetables than most people eat (even people who claim to be focused on "clean eating" or health in many cases) plus plenty of protein and still have discretionary calories. IMO, substituting some ice cream for starch sides or oil or cheese on occasion is possible within a nutrient dense diet, especially if it is not every day, and of course a small piece of chocolate might be only 50 cal.
I don't think this thread was every about whether food choice mattered, however, so I guess I'm confused at the turn the conversation has taken. (In case anyone is unclear, I think diet matters. But, re the topic of the thread, I would not use it as my sole approach to many medical conditions.)5 -
mrsnattybulking wrote: »I struggle on 1800 in some areas and my diet is pretty clean most of the time.
Is that the daily or weekly view? I tend to use the weekly view to ensure things are balanced out -- even if I have a day that is lower in a particular nutrient, I find I'm virtually always at a comfortable level for the week.
(Not meaning this as unsolicited advice, just sharing how I make it work while sometimes having cake or other more discretionary foods. I eat in the ballpark of where you do for calories).4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
Is that the daily or weekly view? I tend to use the weekly view to ensure things are balanced out -- even if I have a day that is lower in a particular nutrient, I find I'm virtually always at a comfortable level for the week.
(Not meaning this as unsolicited advice, just sharing how I make it work while sometimes having cake or other more discretionary foods. I eat in the ballpark of where you do for calories).
That was daily I didn't know I could look at nutrients weekly. Will have to check that out.0 -
mrsnattybulking wrote: »
That was daily I didn't know I could look at nutrients weekly. Will have to check that out.
If you're on the website, you can choose "Trends" at the top and then select "Nutrition Report." It will give you your weekly averages.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
If you're on the website, you can choose "Trends" at the top and then select "Nutrition Report." It will give you your weekly averages.
Awesome, I just did. I suck at Calcium and Potassium haha0 -
You might be better off than you think, @mrsnattybulking . Some nutrition entries are optional. For instance, there are days where I know my potassium intake was impressive but MFP showed that I was lacking. It wasn't counting the potassium on all my entries.2
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mrsnattybulking wrote: »
Awesome, I just did. I suck at Calcium and Potassium haha
Basically what jgnatca said -- are you sure? Potassium in particular is in MANY foods, but if you aren't using the USDA entries you might be missing them. (It's even in coffee, I guess, although I never log that.)0 -
You might be better off than you think, @mrsnattybulking . Some nutrition entries are optional. For instance, there are days where I know my potassium intake was impressive but MFP showed that I was lacking. It wasn't counting the potassium on all my entries.
That's why I switched to Cronometer, the database is really comprehensive with respect to micros. All my foods have it unless it's a UPC add1 -
mrsnattybulking wrote: »
I guess I gave too much credit by assuming the readers had the common sense to deduce that I wasn't referring to a sole diet of either or but thanks for pointing that out *eyeroll*
Under no other circumstances does "cake < broccoli in terms of HEALTH" make any sense. Because I can assure you that not eating your broccoli but instead having dessert on occasion is not going to impact your health.2 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »
@TenderBlender667 holistic nutrition is accepted by most using MFP I expect but most do not post on MFP. Most with a medical background and/or leaky gut, candida, etc related health issues know they can be real health issues. Keep learning your way forward but keep asking your good questions and questioning all sources and in time you can better sort out the difference between facts and personal opinions not supported by research.
I find this funny because you seem to regularly place your personal opinions in higher regard than facts.10 -
stevencloser wrote: »
Under no other circumstances does "cake < broccoli in terms of HEALTH" make any sense. Because I can assure you that not eating your broccoli but instead having dessert on occasion is not going to impact your health.
on occasion lol. Drink that IIFYM kool aid and have 25% of your daily calories come from cake and cookies and lets compare micro profiles 3 months down the road.16 -
Because it's bugging me, and I really want to know:mrsnattybulking wrote: »I don't personally drink the poptarts-all-day kool-aid (nor do I believe anyone enjoying any long term success does)
What is the "poptarts-all-day kool-aid" and what does it have to do with the thread?
I haven't noticed anyone recommending all-day poptarts (or having poptarts or "junk food" make up a large percentage of calories on a daily basis), and I am not sure what it has to do with holistic nutrition (as taught in the school OP referenced) or the validity of leaky gut, adrenal fatigue, etc.
I would agree that the vast majority (like pretty much everyone who is a regular) would agree that a healthy diet is a good thing and, well, generally good for health, although there are many other factors to health too.8 -
mrsnattybulking wrote: »
on occasion lol. Drink that IIFYM kool aid and have 25% of your daily calories come from cake and cookies and lets compare micro profiles 3 months down the road.
To be fair he did say on occasion...0 -
“Compare micro profiles”? To be fair it should be by blood test. I’ll guarantee that those on maintenance or on a “bulk” will have better numbers. After we get our minimums the rest really doesn’t matter.
When my diet was hovering around the minimum I had brittle nails and hair. As I ate more those problems went away.
What really put the rose in my cheeks wasn’t a vitamin, holistic treatment, food, cosmetic, cream or soap. It was running.8 -
mrsnattybulking wrote: »
on occasion lol. Drink that IIFYM kool aid and have 25% of your daily calories come from cake and cookies and lets compare micro profiles 3 months down the road.
Aaaand there we go.7 -
Because you know, having cake and cookies is like negative numbers, they eradicate all the nutrition from all the other food you eat and don't have any whatsoever. Nope, none.12
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stevencloser wrote: »
Aaaand there we go.
BINGO!4 -
I'm confused. How did we get from "dessert on occasion" to "25% of calories from cake and cookies"?
Does drinking the kool-aid make us fall off the wagon from our all-broccoli diet or something?10 -
i will say that I eat probably 20% cake/cookies/junk and my blood work (aside from my known wonky thyroid) is near perfect - my doc can't believe how good my unsupplemented vitamin D level is (she never sees it as high on the normal range as mine is)7
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mrsnattybulking wrote: »
on occasion lol. Drink that IIFYM kool aid and have 25% of your daily calories come from cake and cookies and lets compare micro profiles 3 months down the road.
How did you read "having dessert on occasion" and get to "have 25% of your daily calories come from cake and cookies"? Who is even doing that or recommending that?7 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
How did you read "having dessert on occasion" and get to "have 25% of your daily calories come from cake and cookies"? Who is even doing that or recommending that?
Some people are, but even that is not an issue depending on the other 75% of the diet.4 -
stevencloser wrote: »
Some people are, but even that is not an issue depending on the other 75% of the diet.
My typing fingers got ahead of my brain because I now realize that with the donut I had as part of breakfast and the cookie I'm going to have with lunch, cake and cookies *are* about 25% of my calories today and it still all fits.
I'd still say I don't see anyone *recommending* this, it's just something than can happen and nutritional goals can still be met.6 -
I've read through this thread and have only one thing to add to the OP. Does this school have accreditation in your state? Here's a good place to start: https://ope.ed.gov/accreditation/
Accreditation serves two purposes. #1 it lets you know you are plunking down money for an education that is at least going to be accepted. #2 if you get a degree from a school that does not have a proper accreditation your degree will be worthless when you list it applying for a job or for graduate school.8 -
Holistic medicine is fascinating and can be an extremely beneficial adjunct to Western medicine. My problem with holistic medicine is it is often administered recklessly. When administered properly, I think holistic medicine is great. What we take in greatly effects how our body functions. Personally, I take D mannose, cranberries and apple cider vinegar for UTI treatment/prevention. This treatment has to do with preventing bacterial growth through an alkaline environment and flushing the bacteria out. I know to look out for flank pain, fever and such which could be signs of of dangerous complications. On the other hand, I have seen naturalpaths prescribe cranberries without asking about other symptoms beyond a basic UTI....20
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