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Why are most mfp users against holistic nutrition?
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stanmann571 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »(I thought it was a joke.)
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_4_5?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=taleb+black+swan&sprefix=taleb,aps,211&crid=2VPAJ1YGX63I3
Here's a joke on the subject
A mathematician, a physicist, and an engineer are riding a train through Scotland.
The engineer looks out the window, sees a black sheep, and exclaims, "Hey! They've got black sheep in Scotland!"
The physicist looks out the window and corrects the engineer, "Strictly speaking, all we know is that there's at least one black sheep in Scotland."
The mathematician looks out the window and corrects the physicist, " Strictly speaking, all we know is that is that at least one side of one sheep is black in Scotland."
Love it!
The philosophical Pedant chimes in "Is the sheep really in Scotland?"
If the sheep is black, it cannot be a true Scottish sheep.5 -
I find the most hilarious part of the Big Pharma/Food Industry conspiracy theories is the way it completely ignores how utterly impossible it would be for that many people to be toeing the line and keeping it all hush hush. If ANY corporation or body truly had that much power and control over the WHOLE WORLD do you REALLY think they'd be using it to keep people fat, sick and tired? Amazing that they have such incredible power, but such modest ambitions.14
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PrimalForLife wrote: »Carb-dependency stays intact for people until one makes the effort of getting out of the vortex of being carb-dependent - which most seem reluctant to try (the messaging is pervasive to 'trust those whole grains', so it is not surprising). It is almost analogous to a 'root kit' for computer operating systems or perhaps 'The Matrix' of Western Industrial nutrition?
What on earth is carb-dependency? Not being on a keto diet?
No traditional human diet seems to be keto, for the record. A very few are extremely low carb due to environment and human ability to adapt to almost anything, and in those cases people seem to adapt by not going into ketosis at carb levels others would. Most traditional human diets aren't especially low carb, and there is no evidence that the human body does being low carb. I think low carb can be a reasonable and successful way of eating for SOME in a society like ours, where the extreme availability of food can be a problem for many people, but that doesn't mean it is somehow better for health (IMO it can be healthy or not, like many other ways of eating).If people did manage to escape their carb-dependent state, they might then learn their bodies can access their own body fat stores efficiently
Of course our bodies can access our own fat stores efficiently. The big lie is that you need to be low carb for that to happen.make glucose (Gluconeogenesis) from dietary or endogenous proteins (as required)
Yes, we can do that too, because glucose is so significant for us that we need a backup plan for if it's not available. Not at all sure why this is supposed to mean we are better off relying on such means for our glucose needs rather than consuming carbs.allow their bodies to perform maintenance more effectively in a state or hormonal balance...trusting more in how we are all made, rather than the marketing message of 'how to be healthy'.
Not clear what you are getting at here.
Seems to me that you are falling for a certain marketing message indeed!
But if the argument is that carbs are not healthy, that's absurd. Many of the most nutrient dense foods are mostly carbs.12 -
PrimalForLife wrote: »Holistically, (mentally, socially, etc.) the effects of food industries that propagate engineered foods and carb-dependent messaging and creating millions of patients with poor health and obesity, who then are treated based on poor or inaccurate health information, has had a devastating effect on their collective health.
Most "food industry" foods (even if we ignore the meat and dairy industries and focus on ultra processed foods) are a mix of fat and carbs, primarily, and only a particular subset of carbs. Calling eating these "carb dependency" is ridiculous, as is ignoring the many other foods (whole foods in many cases) that are predominantly carbs.
Also, the "food industry" (and processing) has, among other things made lots of healthy foods more available to many people (vegetables and fruits throughout the year -- I realize you might not approve of those -- fish, smoked and frozen, so on). The problem for us now is that this goes along with vast choice and availability and thus excess in many cases. That I overeat is more related to the huge amount of amazing cheeses I can go to a local cheese monger (or even just WF) and buy, or that I can experiment with and try types of cuisine my grandparents never experienced (Ethiopian, Indian, Vietnamese, Korean, Georgian (country of), etc.) even with just a phone call (and in any macro mix I want, often), as well as the fact that it's easy to be entirely sedentary if one wants and food is often available without you even having to do anything.4 -
I often wonder how the food-industrial-transportation network manages to keep on trend. How can it possibly respond quickly enough, from farmer to table, when fads flip? Does Farmer Joe switch from cabbage to Kale? Who tells him?2
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Does it matter? Do what works for you.
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danigirl1011 wrote: »Totally agree with you. And people who have not researched just think you're crazy when you talk about this stuff. Or demand "scientific proof" but really where are the studies? They are covered up by the food industry and big pharma, because they dont' want the public knowing it. They want everyone overweight, sick and tired. Keep up with your schooling. At least you know what's up!
Can't cover up studies that were never done. So - as usual - complete and utter horse manure.7 -
danigirl1011 wrote: »Totally agree with you. And people who have not researched just think you're crazy when you talk about this stuff. Or demand "scientific proof" but really where are the studies? They are covered up by the food industry and big pharma, because they dont' want the public knowing it. They want everyone overweight, sick and tired. Keep up with your schooling. At least you know what's up!
-50 points for not including 'WAKE UP SHEEPLE'17 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »I find the most hilarious part of the Big Pharma/Food Industry conspiracy theories is the way it completely ignores how utterly impossible it would be for that many people to be toeing the line and keeping it all hush hush. If ANY corporation or body truly had that much power and control over the WHOLE WORLD do you REALLY think they'd be using it to keep people fat, sick and tired? Amazing that they have such incredible power, but such modest ambitions.
Monsanto has hit men.7 -
sunfastrose wrote: »danigirl1011 wrote: »Totally agree with you. And people who have not researched just think you're crazy when you talk about this stuff. Or demand "scientific proof" but really where are the studies? They are covered up by the food industry and big pharma, because they dont' want the public knowing it. They want everyone overweight, sick and tired. Keep up with your schooling. At least you know what's up!
-50 points for not including 'WAKE UP SHEEPLE'
I still have an abuse flag for using that phrase. I don't report it because it amuses me immensely.8 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »I find the most hilarious part of the Big Pharma/Food Industry conspiracy theories is the way it completely ignores how utterly impossible it would be for that many people to be toeing the line and keeping it all hush hush. If ANY corporation or body truly had that much power and control over the WHOLE WORLD do you REALLY think they'd be using it to keep people fat, sick and tired? Amazing that they have such incredible power, but such modest ambitions.
Nah.
The biggest joke about the Big Pharma conspiracy folk is they just don't get that Big Pharma also markets the supplements and holistic items these folk rely on.12 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »I find the most hilarious part of the Big Pharma/Food Industry conspiracy theories is the way it completely ignores how utterly impossible it would be for that many people to be toeing the line and keeping it all hush hush. If ANY corporation or body truly had that much power and control over the WHOLE WORLD do you REALLY think they'd be using it to keep people fat, sick and tired? Amazing that they have such incredible power, but such modest ambitions.
Nah.
The biggest joke about the Big Pharma conspiracy folk is they just don't get that Big Pharma also markets the supplements and holistic items these folk rely on.
You mean big pharma owns burts bees and Vega pea protein? NO!!!
INCONCEIVABLE!!
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stanmann571 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »I find the most hilarious part of the Big Pharma/Food Industry conspiracy theories is the way it completely ignores how utterly impossible it would be for that many people to be toeing the line and keeping it all hush hush. If ANY corporation or body truly had that much power and control over the WHOLE WORLD do you REALLY think they'd be using it to keep people fat, sick and tired? Amazing that they have such incredible power, but such modest ambitions.
Nah.
The biggest joke about the Big Pharma conspiracy folk is they just don't get that Big Pharma also markets the supplements and holistic items these folk rely on.
You mean big pharma owns burts bees and Vega pea protein? NO!!!
INCONCEIVABLE!!
I googled Jamieson's as they seem to be the most popular supplement provider up here in Canada.
Owned by CCMP Capital corp.
Here's what else they own.
http://www.ccmpcapital.com/portfolio/portfolio-directory/
May not be Big Pharma, but sure is a long list of companies. Glad to see they are not just out for profit.3 -
I'm not proud admit that I read the entire thread. In summary:
All the incoherent posts were made in favor of "holistic" "medicine" and most of the coherent ones were for an evidence-based approach to decision making. If a post uses punctuation, there's about a 90% chance it argues in favor of modern science.18 -
There are reasons to not trust Big Pharma in the same ways there are reasons to not trust any large and powerful company whose main drive is to increase profits for shareholders.
That said to act like large pharmaceutical companies are just pure evil and have done nothing to benefit humanity is pretty ridiculous. I don't work at a large pharma company but I do work with them and on non-profit projects whose drive is solely to save lives and benefit people. Inside the walls of those megacorps are people and those people are human and chances are they entered the field they entered into because they care about public health. Sure their high profile products are the ones that make them the most money which tend to be first-world problems like impotence drugs but that doesn't mean they don't work on other diseases or issues or bring their large resources to bear on collaborate efforts with non-profits.13 -
NorthCascades wrote: »I'm not proud admit that I read the entire thread. In summary:
All the incoherent posts were made in favor of "holistic" "medicine" and most of the coherent ones were for an evidence-based approach to decision making. If a post uses punctuation, there's about a 90% chance it argues in favor of modern science.
Wait... does that mean there's a direct correlation between lack of use of punctuation and paranoia?
Edit: because English can be difficult
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NorthCascades wrote: »I'm not proud admit that I read the entire thread. In summary:
All the incoherent posts were made in favor of "holistic" "medicine" and most of the coherent ones were for an evidence-based approach to decision making. If a post uses punctuation, there's about a 90% chance it argues in favor of modern science.
You just think that because of your pro-Big-Pharma biases and your elitist punctuationalist prejudice!
You're right, nonetheless. Good, clear writing and good, clear thinking go together (mostly).7 -
mshanepace wrote: »My point about leaky gut, holistic medicine, etc comes down to one simple thought, YOU DON'T KNOW. And. Unless you are ALL knowing and every where present, you can't!
@mshanepace
I'm not trying to insult you. You need to know that you are committing the "Argument from Ignorance" logical fallacy.
You are claiming to know based on things you don't know.
And by the way, Science DOES know that leaky gut is a myth, that GMOs are safe, that organic food isn't better in any way, that calories in need to be less than calories out to lose weight, that homeopathy isn't science, that crystals and dream catchers and hypnosis don't make any physical changes, etc, etc, plus science knows a lot more.
If science doesn't know something, that doesn't mean that any stupid *kitten* is possible.19
This discussion has been closed.
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