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Keto means not counting calories
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I’m posting this to also help settle a debate between me and another woman.
When you are on keto and in ketosis you do not need to count/worry about calories since your body is switching fuel sources?
OR
You lose weight on keto because your CI is lower than CO? If your CI are too high, regardless of ketosis, you’ll gain weight.
Sometimes keto folks can go a bit too far. Yes, your body is burning fat for fuel.....but people following keto are INGESTING more fat than usual. Why would your body ignore ingested fat, and go straight to burning fat stores? And if your body did ignore ingested fat, does it just disappear?
It's always about calorie balance.9 -
I’m posting this to also help settle a debate between me and another woman.
When you are on keto and in ketosis you do not need to count/worry about calories since your body is switching fuel sources?
OR
You lose weight on keto because your CI is lower than CO? If your CI are too high, regardless of ketosis, you’ll gain weight.
Sometimes keto folks can go a bit too far. Yes, your body is burning fat for fuel.....but people following keto are INGESTING more fat than usual. Why would your body ignore ingested fat, and go straight to burning fat stores? And if your body did ignore ingested fat, does it just disappear?
It's always about calorie balance.
not to mention if it did burn just body fat,what happens when you are down to a healthy weight or a low body fat percentage? do you stop keto and switch to another way of eating? and what happens to the fat you eat does your body start using that for fuel since it no longer has body fat to use? we all know what happens when a [erson gets down to an unhealthy body fat % especially a woman.(I know thats not how keto works just hypothetical questions).1 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »I’m posting this to also help settle a debate between me and another woman.
When you are on keto and in ketosis you do not need to count/worry about calories since your body is switching fuel sources?
OR
You lose weight on keto because your CI is lower than CO? If your CI are too high, regardless of ketosis, you’ll gain weight.
Sometimes keto folks can go a bit too far. Yes, your body is burning fat for fuel.....but people following keto are INGESTING more fat than usual. Why would your body ignore ingested fat, and go straight to burning fat stores? And if your body did ignore ingested fat, does it just disappear?
It's always about calorie balance.
not to mention if it did burn just body fat,what happens when you are down to a healthy weight or a low body fat percentage? do you stop keto and switch to another way of eating? and what happens to the fat you eat does your body start using that for fuel since it no longer has body fat to use? we all know what happens when a [erson gets down to an unhealthy body fat % especially a woman.(I know thats not how keto works just hypothetical questions).
Good point - if keto is meant to be a permanent lifestyle change and it's burning fat all the time....sooner or later there would have to be zero fat stores.6 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »I’m posting this to also help settle a debate between me and another woman.
When you are on keto and in ketosis you do not need to count/worry about calories since your body is switching fuel sources?
OR
You lose weight on keto because your CI is lower than CO? If your CI are too high, regardless of ketosis, you’ll gain weight.
Sometimes keto folks can go a bit too far. Yes, your body is burning fat for fuel.....but people following keto are INGESTING more fat than usual. Why would your body ignore ingested fat, and go straight to burning fat stores? And if your body did ignore ingested fat, does it just disappear?
It's always about calorie balance.
not to mention if it did burn just body fat,what happens when you are down to a healthy weight or a low body fat percentage? do you stop keto and switch to another way of eating? and what happens to the fat you eat does your body start using that for fuel since it no longer has body fat to use? we all know what happens when a [erson gets down to an unhealthy body fat % especially a woman.(I know thats not how keto works just hypothetical questions).
Good point - if keto is meant to be a permanent lifestyle change and it's burning fat all the time....sooner or later there would have to be zero fat stores.
Many of the woo-tastic claims about keto completely ignore basic tenets of physiology.10 -
Losinandmovin wrote: »I don't pay any attention to calories. I eat at my TDEE: 2200/day and continue to lose weight.
How have you established your TDEE requirements, and how do you know that you're consuming that volume?5 -
Layne Norton made a funny video trolling the keto fanatics who do believe calories don't count on keto diet https://youtube.com/watch?v=MuJIFe-UkZ47
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Losinandmovin wrote: »Losinandmovin wrote: »I've been keto for the past 4 months: [1] I don't pay any attention to calories. I eat at my TDEE: 2200/day and continue to lose weight. It's NOT calories in/calories out. I belong to several Facebook keto groups and many of my friends on this site are doing keto and post their food diaries. Most of us eat at our TDEE-- that's a shitload of calories. I don't exercise-- many do. I continuously lose. So do almost all my keto contacts. I'm working with my endocrinologist. I'm not diabetic and don't want to be--so this works for MANY people. People are comfortable with CICO. But ultimately, when you look at the success rates of low calorie diets: they don't work for over 90% of people long term. We've been taught our whole lives to eat less, exercise more. [3] Keto throws that to the wind. Eat fewer carbohydrates, but EAT. [4] We are never hungry: which low calories diets cannot claim. You can certainly add exercise: we all need it for well being, muscle strength and endurance, and basic life. I won't argue that. But I will argue and I have plenty who will back me up: keto is not CICO.
[1] If you don't pay any attention to calories, how do you know you're eating at your TDEE?
[2] Feel free to post any legitimate studies/statistics showing a higher long term success rate with keto over any other diet.
[3] No, keto does not throw CICO to the wind. This is an example of the ridiculous claims made in keto propaganda. There have been countless scientific studies conclusively proving that energy balance is the driver of weight loss/gain/maintenance.
[4] More keto propaganda woo. There are plenty of people eating non-keto, calorie-restricted diets who enjoy excellent satiety. That it works for you doesn't mean that it works for everyone.
Keto
Is
Not
Magic.
AnvilHead, you don't have to agree, but these are my experiences. Propaganda is for a specific purpose: I have no other purpose than to answer her questions. I don't pay attention to calories: at the end of the day I look and see where I am-- I don't have to try to stay under. Feel free to research how few people maintain weight loss with CICO. Have fun with that.
People (like yourself) are vehemently apposed to keto-- that's fine, it's not for everyone. But it works and it's not nearly the fad people think it is. There are many endocrinologists that would disagree with your claims that CICO is the be all end all. I would never say keto has better success than every other diet: my ego isn't so big that I need to claim things I don't know. But I do know that people do not have to eat at a deficit to lose on keto. I do know food is more of an indicator of how much weight people will lose is than exercise.
What you think you know is wrong.
"There was convincing evidence that energy balance is critical to maintaining healthy
body weight and ensuring optimal nutrient intakes, regardless of macronutrient
distribution expressed in energy percentage (%E). "
http://foris.fao.org/preview/25553-0ece4cb94ac52f9a25af77ca5cfba7a8c.pdf4 -
If calories don't matter why the discussion about TDEE? Surely that's not a thing either then?16
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Right. Either calories matter or they don’t.VintageFeline wrote: »If calories don't matter why the discussion about TDEE? Surely that's not a thing either then?
If they don’t matter, surely you could gorge yourself on 10,000+ calories per day of bacon, ribeye steaks drowned in butter and gallons of coffee full of heavy cream, and not gain an ounce. Why even worry about a number like TDEE if calories are irrelevant and carbs are all that matter?10 -
notreallychris wrote: »Losinandmovin wrote: »Losinandmovin wrote: »I've been keto for the past 4 months: [1] I don't pay any attention to calories. I eat at my TDEE: 2200/day and continue to lose weight. It's NOT calories in/calories out. I belong to several Facebook keto groups and many of my friends on this site are doing keto and post their food diaries. Most of us eat at our TDEE-- that's a shitload of calories. I don't exercise-- many do. I continuously lose. So do almost all my keto contacts. I'm working with my endocrinologist. I'm not diabetic and don't want to be--so this works for MANY people. People are comfortable with CICO. But ultimately, when you look at the success rates of low calorie diets: they don't work for over 90% of people long term. We've been taught our whole lives to eat less, exercise more. [3] Keto throws that to the wind. Eat fewer carbohydrates, but EAT. [4] We are never hungry: which low calories diets cannot claim. You can certainly add exercise: we all need it for well being, muscle strength and endurance, and basic life. I won't argue that. But I will argue and I have plenty who will back me up: keto is not CICO.
[1] If you don't pay any attention to calories, how do you know you're eating at your TDEE?
[2] Feel free to post any legitimate studies/statistics showing a higher long term success rate with keto over any other diet.
[3] No, keto does not throw CICO to the wind. This is an example of the ridiculous claims made in keto propaganda. There have been countless scientific studies conclusively proving that energy balance is the driver of weight loss/gain/maintenance.
[4] More keto propaganda woo. There are plenty of people eating non-keto, calorie-restricted diets who enjoy excellent satiety. That it works for you doesn't mean that it works for everyone.
Keto
Is
Not
Magic.
AnvilHead, you don't have to agree, but these are my experiences. Propaganda is for a specific purpose: I have no other purpose than to answer her questions. I don't pay attention to calories: at the end of the day I look and see where I am-- I don't have to try to stay under. Feel free to research how few people maintain weight loss with CICO. Have fun with that.
People (like yourself) are vehemently apposed to keto-- that's fine, it's not for everyone. But it works and it's not nearly the fad people think it is. There are many endocrinologists that would disagree with your claims that CICO is the be all end all. I would never say keto has better success than every other diet: my ego isn't so big that I need to claim things I don't know. But I do know that people do not have to eat at a deficit to lose on keto. I do know food is more of an indicator of how much weight people will lose is than exercise.
Your experience with keto does not make it a fact for everyone. CICO is how you're losing weight. Whether you think it is or not.
I fortunately don't have to prove to you what I already know. And I'm certainly not alone in my ketogenic journey. It's NOT CICO, but you are free to believe anything you like.
44 -
As the saying goes - you’re entitled to your own opinions, but you’re not entitled to your own facts.
CICO/energy balance is a scientifically proven fact.
But all of this dialogue dovetails very nicely into what I said in my first post:There's a lot of BS and woo about keto, it's the big fad right now. All kinds of miracles ascribed to it, most of which are completely false. The claim that you don't have to worry about calories is one of them.10 -
Losinandmovin wrote: »notreallychris wrote: »Losinandmovin wrote: »Losinandmovin wrote: »I've been keto for the past 4 months: [1] I don't pay any attention to calories. I eat at my TDEE: 2200/day and continue to lose weight. It's NOT calories in/calories out. I belong to several Facebook keto groups and many of my friends on this site are doing keto and post their food diaries. Most of us eat at our TDEE-- that's a shitload of calories. I don't exercise-- many do. I continuously lose. So do almost all my keto contacts. I'm working with my endocrinologist. I'm not diabetic and don't want to be--so this works for MANY people. People are comfortable with CICO. But ultimately, when you look at the success rates of low calorie diets: they don't work for over 90% of people long term. We've been taught our whole lives to eat less, exercise more. [3] Keto throws that to the wind. Eat fewer carbohydrates, but EAT. [4] We are never hungry: which low calories diets cannot claim. You can certainly add exercise: we all need it for well being, muscle strength and endurance, and basic life. I won't argue that. But I will argue and I have plenty who will back me up: keto is not CICO.
[1] If you don't pay any attention to calories, how do you know you're eating at your TDEE?
[2] Feel free to post any legitimate studies/statistics showing a higher long term success rate with keto over any other diet.
[3] No, keto does not throw CICO to the wind. This is an example of the ridiculous claims made in keto propaganda. There have been countless scientific studies conclusively proving that energy balance is the driver of weight loss/gain/maintenance.
[4] More keto propaganda woo. There are plenty of people eating non-keto, calorie-restricted diets who enjoy excellent satiety. That it works for you doesn't mean that it works for everyone.
Keto
Is
Not
Magic.
AnvilHead, you don't have to agree, but these are my experiences. Propaganda is for a specific purpose: I have no other purpose than to answer her questions. I don't pay attention to calories: at the end of the day I look and see where I am-- I don't have to try to stay under. Feel free to research how few people maintain weight loss with CICO. Have fun with that.
People (like yourself) are vehemently apposed to keto-- that's fine, it's not for everyone. But it works and it's not nearly the fad people think it is. There are many endocrinologists that would disagree with your claims that CICO is the be all end all. I would never say keto has better success than every other diet: my ego isn't so big that I need to claim things I don't know. But I do know that people do not have to eat at a deficit to lose on keto. I do know food is more of an indicator of how much weight people will lose is than exercise.
Your experience with keto does not make it a fact for everyone. CICO is how you're losing weight. Whether you think it is or not.
I fortunately don't have to prove to you what I already know. And I'm certainly not alone in my ketogenic journey. It's NOT CICO, but you are free to believe anything you like.
Your own food diary disproves your claim to be eating 2200 calories. I would like to encourage you to try something to prove your claims. For the next month aim to eat 3,000 calories per day following the keto diet. Report back on day 30 and let us know what your weight did.24 -
VintageFeline wrote: »If calories don't matter why the discussion about TDEE? Surely that's not a thing either then?
@Losinandmovin I'd like to hear your answer to this question.
Or do you mean you should be maintaining on your TDEE number, but you are losing, even though you are not eating anywhere near 2,200 calories?? I'm totally confussdeded...2 -
Losinandmovin wrote: »notreallychris wrote: »Losinandmovin wrote: »Losinandmovin wrote: »I've been keto for the past 4 months: [1] I don't pay any attention to calories. I eat at my TDEE: 2200/day and continue to lose weight. It's NOT calories in/calories out. I belong to several Facebook keto groups and many of my friends on this site are doing keto and post their food diaries. Most of us eat at our TDEE-- that's a shitload of calories. I don't exercise-- many do. I continuously lose. So do almost all my keto contacts. I'm working with my endocrinologist. I'm not diabetic and don't want to be--so this works for MANY people. People are comfortable with CICO. But ultimately, when you look at the success rates of low calorie diets: they don't work for over 90% of people long term. We've been taught our whole lives to eat less, exercise more. [3] Keto throws that to the wind. Eat fewer carbohydrates, but EAT. [4] We are never hungry: which low calories diets cannot claim. You can certainly add exercise: we all need it for well being, muscle strength and endurance, and basic life. I won't argue that. But I will argue and I have plenty who will back me up: keto is not CICO.
[1] If you don't pay any attention to calories, how do you know you're eating at your TDEE?
[2] Feel free to post any legitimate studies/statistics showing a higher long term success rate with keto over any other diet.
[3] No, keto does not throw CICO to the wind. This is an example of the ridiculous claims made in keto propaganda. There have been countless scientific studies conclusively proving that energy balance is the driver of weight loss/gain/maintenance.
[4] More keto propaganda woo. There are plenty of people eating non-keto, calorie-restricted diets who enjoy excellent satiety. That it works for you doesn't mean that it works for everyone.
Keto
Is
Not
Magic.
AnvilHead, you don't have to agree, but these are my experiences. Propaganda is for a specific purpose: I have no other purpose than to answer her questions. I don't pay attention to calories: at the end of the day I look and see where I am-- I don't have to try to stay under. Feel free to research how few people maintain weight loss with CICO. Have fun with that.
People (like yourself) are vehemently apposed to keto-- that's fine, it's not for everyone. But it works and it's not nearly the fad people think it is. There are many endocrinologists that would disagree with your claims that CICO is the be all end all. I would never say keto has better success than every other diet: my ego isn't so big that I need to claim things I don't know. But I do know that people do not have to eat at a deficit to lose on keto. I do know food is more of an indicator of how much weight people will lose is than exercise.
Your experience with keto does not make it a fact for everyone. CICO is how you're losing weight. Whether you think it is or not.
I fortunately don't have to prove to you what I already know. And I'm certainly not alone in my ketogenic journey. It's NOT CICO, but you are free to believe anything you like.
You're right! You are fortunate you can throw claims around without backing them up. I'm just hoping a newbie doesn't come to this thread and reads your post and think "keto is the only way to lose weight, calories schmalories".
Can keto work for them? Sure!
Will it? Depends on their goals and if it's sustainable for them. They can lose, maintain AND gain with keto.
Keto does not equal weight loss. But calorie deficit for sure does.
Congrats to you personally in finding something that you enjoy and that works for you. But it's not magic.15 -
Losinandmovin wrote: »notreallychris wrote: »Losinandmovin wrote: »Losinandmovin wrote: »I've been keto for the past 4 months: [1] I don't pay any attention to calories. I eat at my TDEE: 2200/day and continue to lose weight. It's NOT calories in/calories out. I belong to several Facebook keto groups and many of my friends on this site are doing keto and post their food diaries. Most of us eat at our TDEE-- that's a shitload of calories. I don't exercise-- many do. I continuously lose. So do almost all my keto contacts. I'm working with my endocrinologist. I'm not diabetic and don't want to be--so this works for MANY people. People are comfortable with CICO. But ultimately, when you look at the success rates of low calorie diets: they don't work for over 90% of people long term. We've been taught our whole lives to eat less, exercise more. [3] Keto throws that to the wind. Eat fewer carbohydrates, but EAT. [4] We are never hungry: which low calories diets cannot claim. You can certainly add exercise: we all need it for well being, muscle strength and endurance, and basic life. I won't argue that. But I will argue and I have plenty who will back me up: keto is not CICO.
[1] If you don't pay any attention to calories, how do you know you're eating at your TDEE?
[2] Feel free to post any legitimate studies/statistics showing a higher long term success rate with keto over any other diet.
[3] No, keto does not throw CICO to the wind. This is an example of the ridiculous claims made in keto propaganda. There have been countless scientific studies conclusively proving that energy balance is the driver of weight loss/gain/maintenance.
[4] More keto propaganda woo. There are plenty of people eating non-keto, calorie-restricted diets who enjoy excellent satiety. That it works for you doesn't mean that it works for everyone.
Keto
Is
Not
Magic.
AnvilHead, you don't have to agree, but these are my experiences. Propaganda is for a specific purpose: I have no other purpose than to answer her questions. I don't pay attention to calories: at the end of the day I look and see where I am-- I don't have to try to stay under. Feel free to research how few people maintain weight loss with CICO. Have fun with that.
People (like yourself) are vehemently apposed to keto-- that's fine, it's not for everyone. But it works and it's not nearly the fad people think it is. There are many endocrinologists that would disagree with your claims that CICO is the be all end all. I would never say keto has better success than every other diet: my ego isn't so big that I need to claim things I don't know. But I do know that people do not have to eat at a deficit to lose on keto. I do know food is more of an indicator of how much weight people will lose is than exercise.
Your experience with keto does not make it a fact for everyone. CICO is how you're losing weight. Whether you think it is or not.
I fortunately don't have to prove to you what I already know. And I'm certainly not alone in my ketogenic journey. It's NOT CICO, but you are free to believe anything you like.
So you are already counting macros, why do you not go for 500g of fat in a day? If Keto is so magical you should certainly be able to eat more than you do, but I bet you are keeping even your fat g below a certain amount but that wouldn't have anything to do with trying to lower your caloric intake overall, right?5 -
Losinandmovin wrote: »notreallychris wrote: »Losinandmovin wrote: »Losinandmovin wrote: »I've been keto for the past 4 months: [1] I don't pay any attention to calories. I eat at my TDEE: 2200/day and continue to lose weight. It's NOT calories in/calories out. I belong to several Facebook keto groups and many of my friends on this site are doing keto and post their food diaries. Most of us eat at our TDEE-- that's a shitload of calories. I don't exercise-- many do. I continuously lose. So do almost all my keto contacts. I'm working with my endocrinologist. I'm not diabetic and don't want to be--so this works for MANY people. People are comfortable with CICO. But ultimately, when you look at the success rates of low calorie diets: they don't work for over 90% of people long term. We've been taught our whole lives to eat less, exercise more. [3] Keto throws that to the wind. Eat fewer carbohydrates, but EAT. [4] We are never hungry: which low calories diets cannot claim. You can certainly add exercise: we all need it for well being, muscle strength and endurance, and basic life. I won't argue that. But I will argue and I have plenty who will back me up: keto is not CICO.
[1] If you don't pay any attention to calories, how do you know you're eating at your TDEE?
[2] Feel free to post any legitimate studies/statistics showing a higher long term success rate with keto over any other diet.
[3] No, keto does not throw CICO to the wind. This is an example of the ridiculous claims made in keto propaganda. There have been countless scientific studies conclusively proving that energy balance is the driver of weight loss/gain/maintenance.
[4] More keto propaganda woo. There are plenty of people eating non-keto, calorie-restricted diets who enjoy excellent satiety. That it works for you doesn't mean that it works for everyone.
Keto
Is
Not
Magic.
AnvilHead, you don't have to agree, but these are my experiences. Propaganda is for a specific purpose: I have no other purpose than to answer her questions. I don't pay attention to calories: at the end of the day I look and see where I am-- I don't have to try to stay under. Feel free to research how few people maintain weight loss with CICO. Have fun with that.
People (like yourself) are vehemently apposed to keto-- that's fine, it's not for everyone. But it works and it's not nearly the fad people think it is. There are many endocrinologists that would disagree with your claims that CICO is the be all end all. I would never say keto has better success than every other diet: my ego isn't so big that I need to claim things I don't know. But I do know that people do not have to eat at a deficit to lose on keto. I do know food is more of an indicator of how much weight people will lose is than exercise.
Your experience with keto does not make it a fact for everyone. CICO is how you're losing weight. Whether you think it is or not.
I fortunately don't have to prove to you what I already know. And I'm certainly not alone in my ketogenic journey. It's NOT CICO, but you are free to believe anything you like.
Your own food diary disproves your claim to be eating 2200 calories. I would like to encourage you to try something to prove your claims. For the next month aim to eat 3,000 calories per day following the keto diet. Report back on day 30 and let us know what your weight did.
Looks like someone closed their diary.15 -
I friend of mine just came off keteo when she was diagnose with diverticulitis, low fibre is a suspected cause, and although keto doesn't mean low fibre, and shouldn't it is often sold as eating "all the bacon you want!", like Atkins was. Having to eat a fair amount of low cal vegetables isn't usually a headliner. I can only imagine that others who are susceptible might end up with the same issues if they don't realize that they have to keep their vegetable intake high as well.4
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losinandmovin,why do you think sugar is killing you? and what do you mean by " I will lose weight until my body and the amount of food I eat are in sync. There can be no "goal weight" ?2
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