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Keto means not counting calories
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »I'm just waiting for someone to drop dead from keto because they just couldn't stop losing weight dammit. All that fat burning got them shrivelling up and keeling over. Oh but wait........
Hasn’t worked that way for Jimmy Moore, one of the most prominent ketovangelists.
What's he back up to these days? I remember he gained back a ton of weight.
He must have abandoned keto, since it’s apparently not possible to gain weight on keto no matter how much you eat.
Apparently, he's a unicorn.
I just fell in a Google hole that took me to Youtube and some bloke talking about why Jimmy Moore regained and keto etc and got about 5 minutes in before noping out. Set points, damaged metabolisms, caloric deficits not being how you should lose weight were all in that first five minutes.3 -
I'll skip past the snark found earlier in this thread.I’m posting this to also help settle a debate between me and another woman.
When you are on keto and in ketosis you do not need to count/worry about calories since your body is switching fuel sources?
OR
You lose weight on keto because your CI is lower than CO? If your CI are too high, regardless of ketosis, you’ll gain weight.
I have been keto for most of 3 years. In my experience, peeople will only lose weight when CI < CO. That's it unless there is some surgical removal of body mass involved.
That being said, many people naturally eat less while keto so CI<CO is much easier to achieve.
And some of us find that CO (magically?) seems to rise while keto so we can eat more and still lose weight. It is not a huge difference, but for me it was there. I lost a just few pounds a month more than I expected to. More than I do when my carbs are higher but calories are about the same.
IMO Worrying about calories and counting calories can be ignored for many while keto, but that is because many naturally find their CI<CO. Others have to count calories to get their CI<CO. To me, your second option is always true while the first option is often true.20 -
This is the weight loss miracle we've all been waiting for! (According to OP)
Keto defies CICO?
No need to track, weigh, log your foods at all.
Eat as many calories as you like, as long as your in ketosis, just by limiting carbs, you will lose weight! Guarented!!!
Guarented Long Term Success*
(*if you never eat carbs again)
To good to be true? Because it is. To lose weight all you need is a calorie deficit. Sounds simple and yets thats true, although not always easy. There are many different ways to acheive this deficit and achieve weight loss. Everyone is different and it's important to follow a plan that works for you. At the end of the day "keto" is a way of eating that some people find easier to follow and create said deficit. But its not the miracle cure your claiming.
Long term weight loss success, needs two things.
1)Consistent calorie intake below, calorie expenditure
2)Way of eating, that you can continue to follow for the rest of your life.
If you are right OP, as you say you are. Why do people on a Keto diet stop losing weight? Surely if weight loss isn't connected to calorie intake, in any way. A keto lifestyle would mean your body would continue losing weight, until death?5 -
yep look up doing keto and not losing weight there are a lot of those when you do a search in google. and almost all of them say that you have to be in a deficit to lose weight if you arent losing you arent in a deficit.3
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Would just like to apologise to cessi909, I got side tracked and referred my comments to op, when really my comments were made to losinandmovin, points of view. (It's late and I'm tired). Sorry.
In reference to actual opening paragraph, kept can be a good way to eat and lose weight. But at the end of the day, it all
boils down to CICO. People can still gain weight on a keto diet, if they are still over eating.
5 -
I low carbed without counting calories starting about 20 years ago (I did it for 10 years). I believed the rationalization that the macro balance would lead to satiety and naturally regulate my intake. I'm trying to remember what my starting weight was... I think all in all I lost about 20 pounds (and it was slow going), but then my weight loss just stopped. And I was still a good 20 pounds overweight at that point and saying that, that's just talking about putting me at the upper range of BMI. My aesthetic goals would have me at a lower BMI. I'm still quite fluffy at that upper point.
Anyway, it wasn't a miracle in automatically regulating my appetite, and I even eventually started regaining weight as time wore on while I was still eating that way.
Long story short? Calories matter. When I started here on MFP, I set my goal as that number that I got down to on the low carb diet because I'd always had such a hard time losing weight in the past. Imagine my surprise when I found losing weight while counting calories to be so easy that I blew right past that goal and now weigh less than I did when I was 13 years old. (I'm 55)3 -
Losinandmovin wrote: »notreallychris wrote: »Losinandmovin wrote: »Losinandmovin wrote: »I've been keto for the past 4 months: [1] I don't pay any attention to calories. I eat at my TDEE: 2200/day and continue to lose weight. It's NOT calories in/calories out. I belong to several Facebook keto groups and many of my friends on this site are doing keto and post their food diaries. Most of us eat at our TDEE-- that's a shitload of calories. I don't exercise-- many do. I continuously lose. So do almost all my keto contacts. I'm working with my endocrinologist. I'm not diabetic and don't want to be--so this works for MANY people. People are comfortable with CICO. But ultimately, when you look at the success rates of low calorie diets: they don't work for over 90% of people long term. We've been taught our whole lives to eat less, exercise more. [3] Keto throws that to the wind. Eat fewer carbohydrates, but EAT. [4] We are never hungry: which low calories diets cannot claim. You can certainly add exercise: we all need it for well being, muscle strength and endurance, and basic life. I won't argue that. But I will argue and I have plenty who will back me up: keto is not CICO.
[1] If you don't pay any attention to calories, how do you know you're eating at your TDEE?
[2] Feel free to post any legitimate studies/statistics showing a higher long term success rate with keto over any other diet.
[3] No, keto does not throw CICO to the wind. This is an example of the ridiculous claims made in keto propaganda. There have been countless scientific studies conclusively proving that energy balance is the driver of weight loss/gain/maintenance.
[4] More keto propaganda woo. There are plenty of people eating non-keto, calorie-restricted diets who enjoy excellent satiety. That it works for you doesn't mean that it works for everyone.
Keto
Is
Not
Magic.
AnvilHead, you don't have to agree, but these are my experiences. Propaganda is for a specific purpose: I have no other purpose than to answer her questions. I don't pay attention to calories: at the end of the day I look and see where I am-- I don't have to try to stay under. Feel free to research how few people maintain weight loss with CICO. Have fun with that.
People (like yourself) are vehemently apposed to keto-- that's fine, it's not for everyone. But it works and it's not nearly the fad people think it is. There are many endocrinologists that would disagree with your claims that CICO is the be all end all. I would never say keto has better success than every other diet: my ego isn't so big that I need to claim things I don't know. But I do know that people do not have to eat at a deficit to lose on keto. I do know food is more of an indicator of how much weight people will lose is than exercise.
Your experience with keto does not make it a fact for everyone. CICO is how you're losing weight. Whether you think it is or not.
I fortunately don't have to prove to you what I already know. And I'm certainly not alone in my ketogenic journey. It's NOT CICO, but you are free to believe anything you like.
What is scary is that 17 people agree with him.
Those aren’t ‘agrees’, they’re ‘woo’ flags. That means all those people (rightly) disagree and think it’s BS.10 -
Losinandmovin wrote: »notreallychris wrote: »Losinandmovin wrote: »Losinandmovin wrote: »I've been keto for the past 4 months: [1] I don't pay any attention to calories. I eat at my TDEE: 2200/day and continue to lose weight. It's NOT calories in/calories out. I belong to several Facebook keto groups and many of my friends on this site are doing keto and post their food diaries. Most of us eat at our TDEE-- that's a shitload of calories. I don't exercise-- many do. I continuously lose. So do almost all my keto contacts. I'm working with my endocrinologist. I'm not diabetic and don't want to be--so this works for MANY people. People are comfortable with CICO. But ultimately, when you look at the success rates of low calorie diets: they don't work for over 90% of people long term. We've been taught our whole lives to eat less, exercise more. [3] Keto throws that to the wind. Eat fewer carbohydrates, but EAT. [4] We are never hungry: which low calories diets cannot claim. You can certainly add exercise: we all need it for well being, muscle strength and endurance, and basic life. I won't argue that. But I will argue and I have plenty who will back me up: keto is not CICO.
[1] If you don't pay any attention to calories, how do you know you're eating at your TDEE?
[2] Feel free to post any legitimate studies/statistics showing a higher long term success rate with keto over any other diet.
[3] No, keto does not throw CICO to the wind. This is an example of the ridiculous claims made in keto propaganda. There have been countless scientific studies conclusively proving that energy balance is the driver of weight loss/gain/maintenance.
[4] More keto propaganda woo. There are plenty of people eating non-keto, calorie-restricted diets who enjoy excellent satiety. That it works for you doesn't mean that it works for everyone.
Keto
Is
Not
Magic.
AnvilHead, you don't have to agree, but these are my experiences. Propaganda is for a specific purpose: I have no other purpose than to answer her questions. I don't pay attention to calories: at the end of the day I look and see where I am-- I don't have to try to stay under. Feel free to research how few people maintain weight loss with CICO. Have fun with that.
People (like yourself) are vehemently apposed to keto-- that's fine, it's not for everyone. But it works and it's not nearly the fad people think it is. There are many endocrinologists that would disagree with your claims that CICO is the be all end all. I would never say keto has better success than every other diet: my ego isn't so big that I need to claim things I don't know. But I do know that people do not have to eat at a deficit to lose on keto. I do know food is more of an indicator of how much weight people will lose is than exercise.
Your experience with keto does not make it a fact for everyone. CICO is how you're losing weight. Whether you think it is or not.
I fortunately don't have to prove to you what I already know. And I'm certainly not alone in my ketogenic journey. It's NOT CICO, but you are free to believe anything you like.
What is scary is that 17 people agree with him.
... Woo isn't aggreance, it is a reaction to mean that what is posted is "woo".5 -
Oh I thought it was wooooo like how Ric Flair would say it hahaha7
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I’m posting this to also help settle a debate between me and another woman.
When you are on keto and in ketosis you do not need to count/worry about calories since your body is switching fuel sources?
OR
You lose weight on keto because your CI is lower than CO? If your CI are too high, regardless of ketosis, you’ll gain weight.
@cessi909 both statements are correct personally I have found over the past three years. I have eaten all that I wanted for three years without any regular counting/weighing but did work to keep carb count under 50 grams a day and lost another 40 pounds. Yes I stuffed my face and never went hungry and lost weight over the past 3 years and gained muscle mass and general health improvements.
After I left added sugar and all forms of all grains cold turkey Oct 2014 my carb cravings stopped after the first 30 days so did the binging on processed carbs which could hit 4000-5000 calories on binge days. Weight loss did not start until day 45 of this new WOE.
When CI decreases and CO stays the same one will either loss weight or gain weight at a slower rate. What CICO never told me was what macro to eat to lose weight. When I accidently wound up on a LCHF WOE I lost my high levels of pain then I started losing fat.
Tell the other woman she is right and then she may listen to your right statement.
Finding the causes of our overeating is job #1. Counting calories does help reduce obesity as we work to learn the macro(s) that help address our cause(s) of overeating automatically.33 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »I’m posting this to also help settle a debate between me and another woman.
When you are on keto and in ketosis you do not need to count/worry about calories since your body is switching fuel sources?
OR
You lose weight on keto because your CI is lower than CO? If your CI are too high, regardless of ketosis, you’ll gain weight.
@cessi909 both statements are correct personally I have found over the past three years. I have eaten all that I wanted for three years without any regular counting/weighing but did work to keep carb count under 50 grams a day and lost another 40 pounds. Yes I stuffed my face and never went hungry and lost weight over the past 3 years and gained muscle mass and general health improvements.
After I left added sugar and all forms of all grains cold turkey Oct 2014 my carb cravings stopped after the first 30 days so did the binging on processed carbs which could hit 4000-5000 calories on binge days. Weight loss did not start until day 45 of this new WOE.
When CI decreases and CO stays the same one will either loss weight or gain weight at a slower rate. What CICO never told me was what macro to eat to lose weight. When I accidently wound up on a LCHF WOE I lost my high levels of pain then I started losing fat.
Tell the other woman she is right and then she may listen to your right statement.
Finding the causes of our overeating is job #1. Counting calories does help reduce obesity as we work to learn the macro(s) that help address our cause(s) of overeating automatically.
Ok, but again you conflate CICO with specific programs of weight loss. Most people also don't have a problem with macros, they have a problem with calories that come from those macros.
The vast majority of people have lost weight though out the years without even knowing much about macros, let alone counting them specifically. Some people it does help to have a certain macro range but for most people it means little in order to lose weight.
12 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »I’m posting this to also help settle a debate between me and another woman.
When you are on keto and in ketosis you do not need to count/worry about calories since your body is switching fuel sources?
OR
You lose weight on keto because your CI is lower than CO? If your CI are too high, regardless of ketosis, you’ll gain weight.
@cessi909 both statements are correct personally I have found over the past three years. I have eaten all that I wanted for three years without any regular counting/weighing but did work to keep carb count under 50 grams a day and lost another 40 pounds. Yes I stuffed my face and never went hungry and lost weight over the past 3 years and gained muscle mass and general health improvements.
After I left added sugar and all forms of all grains cold turkey Oct 2014 my carb cravings stopped after the first 30 days so did the binging on processed carbs which could hit 4000-5000 calories on binge days. Weight loss did not start until day 45 of this new WOE.
When CI decreases and CO stays the same one will either loss weight or gain weight at a slower rate. What CICO never told me was what macro to eat to lose weight. When I accidently wound up on a LCHF WOE I lost my high levels of pain then I started losing fat.
Tell the other woman she is right and then she may listen to your right statement.
Finding the causes of our overeating is job #1. Counting calories does help reduce obesity as we work to learn the macro(s) that help address our cause(s) of overeating automatically.
Ok, but again you conflate CICO with specific programs of weight loss. Most people also don't have a problem with macros, they have a problem with calories that come from those macros.
The vast majority of people have lost weight though out the years without even knowing much about macros, let alone counting them specifically. Some people it does help to have a certain macro range but for most people it means little in order to lose weight.
True. Not finding the macro(s) that worked often is the reason masses of the big losers are even bigger regainers. Reread the OP to better understand the source of your conflatuation confusion.25 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »I’m posting this to also help settle a debate between me and another woman.
When you are on keto and in ketosis you do not need to count/worry about calories since your body is switching fuel sources?
OR
You lose weight on keto because your CI is lower than CO? If your CI are too high, regardless of ketosis, you’ll gain weight.
@cessi909 both statements are correct personally I have found over the past three years. I have eaten all that I wanted for three years without any regular counting/weighing but did work to keep carb count under 50 grams a day and lost another 40 pounds. Yes I stuffed my face and never went hungry and lost weight over the past 3 years and gained muscle mass and general health improvements.
After I left added sugar and all forms of all grains cold turkey Oct 2014 my carb cravings stopped after the first 30 days so did the binging on processed carbs which could hit 4000-5000 calories on binge days. Weight loss did not start until day 45 of this new WOE.
When CI decreases and CO stays the same one will either loss weight or gain weight at a slower rate. What CICO never told me was what macro to eat to lose weight. When I accidently wound up on a LCHF WOE I lost my high levels of pain then I started losing fat.
Tell the other woman she is right and then she may listen to your right statement.
Finding the causes of our overeating is job #1. Counting calories does help reduce obesity as we work to learn the macro(s) that help address our cause(s) of overeating automatically.
Ok, but again you conflate CICO with specific programs of weight loss. Most people also don't have a problem with macros, they have a problem with calories that come from those macros.
The vast majority of people have lost weight though out the years without even knowing much about macros, let alone counting them specifically. Some people it does help to have a certain macro range but for most people it means little in order to lose weight.
True. Not finding the macro(s) that worked often is the reason masses of the big losers are even bigger regainers. Reread the OP to better understand the source of your conflatuation confusion.
Macros? That wasn't the conclusion of the research I saw for their huge regain. It was adaptive thermogenesis coupled with poor maintenance follow through. Macros are going to be way down the list of issues they had.13 -
Losinandmovin wrote: »notreallychris wrote: »Losinandmovin wrote: »Losinandmovin wrote: »I've been keto for the past 4 months: [1] I don't pay any attention to calories. I eat at my TDEE: 2200/day and continue to lose weight. It's NOT calories in/calories out. I belong to several Facebook keto groups and many of my friends on this site are doing keto and post their food diaries. Most of us eat at our TDEE-- that's a shitload of calories. I don't exercise-- many do. I continuously lose. So do almost all my keto contacts. I'm working with my endocrinologist. I'm not diabetic and don't want to be--so this works for MANY people. People are comfortable with CICO. But ultimately, when you look at the success rates of low calorie diets: they don't work for over 90% of people long term. We've been taught our whole lives to eat less, exercise more. [3] Keto throws that to the wind. Eat fewer carbohydrates, but EAT. [4] We are never hungry: which low calories diets cannot claim. You can certainly add exercise: we all need it for well being, muscle strength and endurance, and basic life. I won't argue that. But I will argue and I have plenty who will back me up: keto is not CICO.
[1] If you don't pay any attention to calories, how do you know you're eating at your TDEE?
[2] Feel free to post any legitimate studies/statistics showing a higher long term success rate with keto over any other diet.
[3] No, keto does not throw CICO to the wind. This is an example of the ridiculous claims made in keto propaganda. There have been countless scientific studies conclusively proving that energy balance is the driver of weight loss/gain/maintenance.
[4] More keto propaganda woo. There are plenty of people eating non-keto, calorie-restricted diets who enjoy excellent satiety. That it works for you doesn't mean that it works for everyone.
Keto
Is
Not
Magic.
AnvilHead, you don't have to agree, but these are my experiences. Propaganda is for a specific purpose: I have no other purpose than to answer her questions. I don't pay attention to calories: at the end of the day I look and see where I am-- I don't have to try to stay under. Feel free to research how few people maintain weight loss with CICO. Have fun with that.
People (like yourself) are vehemently apposed to keto-- that's fine, it's not for everyone. But it works and it's not nearly the fad people think it is. There are many endocrinologists that would disagree with your claims that CICO is the be all end all. I would never say keto has better success than every other diet: my ego isn't so big that I need to claim things I don't know. But I do know that people do not have to eat at a deficit to lose on keto. I do know food is more of an indicator of how much weight people will lose is than exercise.
Your experience with keto does not make it a fact for everyone. CICO is how you're losing weight. Whether you think it is or not.
I fortunately don't have to prove to you what I already know. And I'm certainly not alone in my ketogenic journey. It's NOT CICO, but you are free to believe anything you like.
It's not CICO yet you still log your food? I'm still wondering how you know you're eating at 2200 calories without logging your food on claims you don't log your food...although it's been proven you log your food and are consistently under.
With that in mind, it means that it still is CICO, not the magic of a keto diet. You're own words and food diary disproves your claims so I do have to say in this case that yes, you need to prove what you say since everything about what you've even said and done contradict your claims.6 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »I’m posting this to also help settle a debate between me and another woman.
When you are on keto and in ketosis you do not need to count/worry about calories since your body is switching fuel sources?
OR
You lose weight on keto because your CI is lower than CO? If your CI are too high, regardless of ketosis, you’ll gain weight.
@cessi909 both statements are correct personally I have found over the past three years. I have eaten all that I wanted for three years without any regular counting/weighing but did work to keep carb count under 50 grams a day and lost another 40 pounds. Yes I stuffed my face and never went hungry and lost weight over the past 3 years and gained muscle mass and general health improvements.
After I left added sugar and all forms of all grains cold turkey Oct 2014 my carb cravings stopped after the first 30 days so did the binging on processed carbs which could hit 4000-5000 calories on binge days. Weight loss did not start until day 45 of this new WOE.
When CI decreases and CO stays the same one will either loss weight or gain weight at a slower rate. What CICO never told me was what macro to eat to lose weight. When I accidently wound up on a LCHF WOE I lost my high levels of pain then I started losing fat.
Tell the other woman she is right and then she may listen to your right statement.
Finding the causes of our overeating is job #1. Counting calories does help reduce obesity as we work to learn the macro(s) that help address our cause(s) of overeating automatically.
Ok, but again you conflate CICO with specific programs of weight loss. Most people also don't have a problem with macros, they have a problem with calories that come from those macros.
The vast majority of people have lost weight though out the years without even knowing much about macros, let alone counting them specifically. Some people it does help to have a certain macro range but for most people it means little in order to lose weight.
True. Not finding the macro(s) that worked often is the reason masses of the big losers are even bigger regainers. Reread the OP to better understand the source of your conflatuation confusion.
I'm one who doesn't pay much attention to macros - I keep an eye toward Protein but never look at carbs or fat. I've lost weight and kept it off for a few years - not planning on regaining but if I do it won't be because I didn't find the "macro" that worked for me. The main reason people gain weight back is that they let the equation tip back toward CI>CO. This can be for so many reasons - stop tracking calories, become more Sedentary, think they can go back to eating the way they did before losing weight, etc.
Your focus on everyone finding a particular "macro" that works for them ignores the fact that the vast majority of people don't need to have one particular macro nutrient dramatically higher than others for health or satiety. You can eat moderate carbs, moderate fat and moderate protein and be just fine - healthy and happy even. Many of us here are evidence of just that.15 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »I’m posting this to also help settle a debate between me and another woman.
When you are on keto and in ketosis you do not need to count/worry about calories since your body is switching fuel sources?
OR
You lose weight on keto because your CI is lower than CO? If your CI are too high, regardless of ketosis, you’ll gain weight.
@cessi909 both statements are correct personally I have found over the past three years. I have eaten all that I wanted for three years without any regular counting/weighing but did work to keep carb count under 50 grams a day and lost another 40 pounds. Yes I stuffed my face and never went hungry and lost weight over the past 3 years and gained muscle mass and general health improvements.
After I left added sugar and all forms of all grains cold turkey Oct 2014 my carb cravings stopped after the first 30 days so did the binging on processed carbs which could hit 4000-5000 calories on binge days. Weight loss did not start until day 45 of this new WOE.
When CI decreases and CO stays the same one will either loss weight or gain weight at a slower rate. What CICO never told me was what macro to eat to lose weight. When I accidently wound up on a LCHF WOE I lost my high levels of pain then I started losing fat.
Tell the other woman she is right and then she may listen to your right statement.
Finding the causes of our overeating is job #1. Counting calories does help reduce obesity as we work to learn the macro(s) that help address our cause(s) of overeating automatically.
Ok, but again you conflate CICO with specific programs of weight loss. Most people also don't have a problem with macros, they have a problem with calories that come from those macros.
The vast majority of people have lost weight though out the years without even knowing much about macros, let alone counting them specifically. Some people it does help to have a certain macro range but for most people it means little in order to lose weight.
True. Not finding the macro(s) that worked often is the reason masses of the big losers are even bigger regainers. Reread the OP to better understand the source of your conflatuation confusion.
I have lost 70 pounds and have been successfully maintaining - all without paying heed whatsoever to macros/micros.
Please explain what I'm doing wrong.
ETA - weight loss due to using CICO only....hmmm must be something in that12 -
WinoGelato wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »I’m posting this to also help settle a debate between me and another woman.
When you are on keto and in ketosis you do not need to count/worry about calories since your body is switching fuel sources?
OR
You lose weight on keto because your CI is lower than CO? If your CI are too high, regardless of ketosis, you’ll gain weight.
@cessi909 both statements are correct personally I have found over the past three years. I have eaten all that I wanted for three years without any regular counting/weighing but did work to keep carb count under 50 grams a day and lost another 40 pounds. Yes I stuffed my face and never went hungry and lost weight over the past 3 years and gained muscle mass and general health improvements.
After I left added sugar and all forms of all grains cold turkey Oct 2014 my carb cravings stopped after the first 30 days so did the binging on processed carbs which could hit 4000-5000 calories on binge days. Weight loss did not start until day 45 of this new WOE.
When CI decreases and CO stays the same one will either loss weight or gain weight at a slower rate. What CICO never told me was what macro to eat to lose weight. When I accidently wound up on a LCHF WOE I lost my high levels of pain then I started losing fat.
Tell the other woman she is right and then she may listen to your right statement.
Finding the causes of our overeating is job #1. Counting calories does help reduce obesity as we work to learn the macro(s) that help address our cause(s) of overeating automatically.
Ok, but again you conflate CICO with specific programs of weight loss. Most people also don't have a problem with macros, they have a problem with calories that come from those macros.
The vast majority of people have lost weight though out the years without even knowing much about macros, let alone counting them specifically. Some people it does help to have a certain macro range but for most people it means little in order to lose weight.
True. Not finding the macro(s) that worked often is the reason masses of the big losers are even bigger regainers. Reread the OP to better understand the source of your conflatuation confusion.
I'm one who doesn't pay much attention to macros - I keep an eye toward Protein but never look at carbs or fat. I've lost weight and kept it off for a few years - not planning on regaining but if I do it won't be because I didn't find the "macro" that worked for me. The main reason people gain weight back is that they let the equation tip back toward CI>CO. This can be for so many reasons - stop tracking calories, become more Sedentary, think they can go back to eating the way they did before losing weight, etc.
Your focus on everyone finding a particular "macro" that works for them ignores the fact that the vast majority of people don't need to have one particular macro nutrient dramatically higher than others for health or satiety. You can eat moderate carbs, moderate fat and moderate protein and be just fine - healthy and happy even. Many of us here are evidence of just that.
I agree with you.since we are saying the same thing. There are a million ways to eat and be healthy. I can only figure out what works for me and I have never told another how to think, eat and move.17 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »I’m posting this to also help settle a debate between me and another woman.
When you are on keto and in ketosis you do not need to count/worry about calories since your body is switching fuel sources?
OR
You lose weight on keto because your CI is lower than CO? If your CI are too high, regardless of ketosis, you’ll gain weight.
@cessi909 both statements are correct personally I have found over the past three years. I have eaten all that I wanted for three years without any regular counting/weighing but did work to keep carb count under 50 grams a day and lost another 40 pounds. Yes I stuffed my face and never went hungry and lost weight over the past 3 years and gained muscle mass and general health improvements.
After I left added sugar and all forms of all grains cold turkey Oct 2014 my carb cravings stopped after the first 30 days so did the binging on processed carbs which could hit 4000-5000 calories on binge days. Weight loss did not start until day 45 of this new WOE.
When CI decreases and CO stays the same one will either loss weight or gain weight at a slower rate. What CICO never told me was what macro to eat to lose weight. When I accidently wound up on a LCHF WOE I lost my high levels of pain then I started losing fat.
Tell the other woman she is right and then she may listen to your right statement.
Finding the causes of our overeating is job #1. Counting calories does help reduce obesity as we work to learn the macro(s) that help address our cause(s) of overeating automatically.
Ok, but again you conflate CICO with specific programs of weight loss. Most people also don't have a problem with macros, they have a problem with calories that come from those macros.
The vast majority of people have lost weight though out the years without even knowing much about macros, let alone counting them specifically. Some people it does help to have a certain macro range but for most people it means little in order to lose weight.
True. Not finding the macro(s) that worked often is the reason masses of the big losers are even bigger regainers. Reread the OP to better understand the source of your conflatuation confusion.
I'm one who doesn't pay much attention to macros - I keep an eye toward Protein but never look at carbs or fat. I've lost weight and kept it off for a few years - not planning on regaining but if I do it won't be because I didn't find the "macro" that worked for me. The main reason people gain weight back is that they let the equation tip back toward CI>CO. This can be for so many reasons - stop tracking calories, become more Sedentary, think they can go back to eating the way they did before losing weight, etc.
Your focus on everyone finding a particular "macro" that works for them ignores the fact that the vast majority of people don't need to have one particular macro nutrient dramatically higher than others for health or satiety. You can eat moderate carbs, moderate fat and moderate protein and be just fine - healthy and happy even. Many of us here are evidence of just that.
I agree with you.since we are saying the same thing. There are a million ways to eat and be healthy. I can only figure out what works for me and I have never told another how to think, eat and move.
And no matter what method out of the one million ways you choose to eat and be healthy does not negate the fact that CICO still applies when pursuing weight loss.
For the record and since you are so passionate on the subject of attaining improved health markers, I have managed to reverse my diabetes and my chronic anaemia without having to resort to drastic measures such as keto or cutting out sugar dramatically and yes despite not monitoring macros/micros at all. My success came from eating within my calorie allotment and that's it. My health problems arose because I just darn well ate too much it's that simple really.19 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »I’m posting this to also help settle a debate between me and another woman.
When you are on keto and in ketosis you do not need to count/worry about calories since your body is switching fuel sources?
OR
You lose weight on keto because your CI is lower than CO? If your CI are too high, regardless of ketosis, you’ll gain weight.
@cessi909 both statements are correct personally I have found over the past three years. I have eaten all that I wanted for three years without any regular counting/weighing but did work to keep carb count under 50 grams a day and lost another 40 pounds. Yes I stuffed my face and never went hungry and lost weight over the past 3 years and gained muscle mass and general health improvements.
After I left added sugar and all forms of all grains cold turkey Oct 2014 my carb cravings stopped after the first 30 days so did the binging on processed carbs which could hit 4000-5000 calories on binge days. Weight loss did not start until day 45 of this new WOE.
When CI decreases and CO stays the same one will either loss weight or gain weight at a slower rate. What CICO never told me was what macro to eat to lose weight. When I accidently wound up on a LCHF WOE I lost my high levels of pain then I started losing fat.
Tell the other woman she is right and then she may listen to your right statement.
Finding the causes of our overeating is job #1. Counting calories does help reduce obesity as we work to learn the macro(s) that help address our cause(s) of overeating automatically.
Ok, but again you conflate CICO with specific programs of weight loss. Most people also don't have a problem with macros, they have a problem with calories that come from those macros.
The vast majority of people have lost weight though out the years without even knowing much about macros, let alone counting them specifically. Some people it does help to have a certain macro range but for most people it means little in order to lose weight.
True. Not finding the macro(s) that worked often is the reason masses of the big losers are even bigger regainers. Reread the OP to better understand the source of your conflatuation confusion.
Your reading comprehension of what the OP says is lacking.16 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »I’m posting this to also help settle a debate between me and another woman.
When you are on keto and in ketosis you do not need to count/worry about calories since your body is switching fuel sources?
OR
You lose weight on keto because your CI is lower than CO? If your CI are too high, regardless of ketosis, you’ll gain weight.
@cessi909 both statements are correct personally I have found over the past three years. I have eaten all that I wanted for three years without any regular counting/weighing but did work to keep carb count under 50 grams a day and lost another 40 pounds. Yes I stuffed my face and never went hungry and lost weight over the past 3 years and gained muscle mass and general health improvements.
After I left added sugar and all forms of all grains cold turkey Oct 2014 my carb cravings stopped after the first 30 days so did the binging on processed carbs which could hit 4000-5000 calories on binge days. Weight loss did not start until day 45 of this new WOE.
When CI decreases and CO stays the same one will either loss weight or gain weight at a slower rate. What CICO never told me was what macro to eat to lose weight. When I accidently wound up on a LCHF WOE I lost my high levels of pain then I started losing fat.
Tell the other woman she is right and then she may listen to your right statement.
Finding the causes of our overeating is job #1. Counting calories does help reduce obesity as we work to learn the macro(s) that help address our cause(s) of overeating automatically.
Ok, but again you conflate CICO with specific programs of weight loss. Most people also don't have a problem with macros, they have a problem with calories that come from those macros.
The vast majority of people have lost weight though out the years without even knowing much about macros, let alone counting them specifically. Some people it does help to have a certain macro range but for most people it means little in order to lose weight.
True. Not finding the macro(s) that worked often is the reason masses of the big losers are even bigger regainers. Reread the OP to better understand the source of your conflatuation confusion.
I'm one who doesn't pay much attention to macros - I keep an eye toward Protein but never look at carbs or fat. I've lost weight and kept it off for a few years - not planning on regaining but if I do it won't be because I didn't find the "macro" that worked for me. The main reason people gain weight back is that they let the equation tip back toward CI>CO. This can be for so many reasons - stop tracking calories, become more Sedentary, think they can go back to eating the way they did before losing weight, etc.
Your focus on everyone finding a particular "macro" that works for them ignores the fact that the vast majority of people don't need to have one particular macro nutrient dramatically higher than others for health or satiety. You can eat moderate carbs, moderate fat and moderate protein and be just fine - healthy and happy even. Many of us here are evidence of just that.
I agree with you.since we are saying the same thing. There are a million ways to eat and be healthy. I can only figure out what works for me and I have never told another how to think, eat and move.
Just to be clear, since you think we are in agreement - what I am saying is that CICO is the fundamental scientific principle of weight loss. It is not a diet, or a religion, it is simple math. People can be successful just by understanding how CICO impacts their energy balance requirements - and many people become overweight in the first place because they don't understand CICO and how to manipulate that energy balance to their advantage - not because we all have some underlying disorder.
There are a number of ways of eating which enable someone to be successful at achieving their CICO balance and can provide nutrition, satiety, and perhaps in some cases other health benefits from eating in a particular way. But it isn't all about a particular macro for many people.
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