Has Weight Watchers gone insane?
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newheavensearth wrote: »I joined WW on December 10th after about a year of mixed Jenny Craig and MFP calorie counting.
As of last week I have lost 11 pounds. This was with a few Holiday slips.
In the beginning I was double tracking with the WW tools and MFP. My calorie count was coming in at around 1200, perfect for me. After awhile I was confident that this WW thing was working and I gave it all up to Freestyle.
Yes, you do have to be aware and mindful but it is an absolute joy having a big bowl of zero-point turkey, bean and vegetable chili and not agonizing over calories or points. Cooking is wonderful---start with zero point foods and build from there, tracking only the foods that have points.
As always, fats and carbs are point-heavy.
I am the happiest that I have ever been with a food plan since I started Freestyle. I am not weighing and measuring and tracking every single stinking bit of food that I put in my mouth and it is immensely liberating.
Best thing---it's working!!
Not all carbs are point heavy though, as all free fruits are mostly simple carbs.
In what is probably my last WW meeting today, the leader said the zero points system does not allow for the inclusion of essential and good fats and essential and good carbs. Those require a points hit. But everyone seems to be bent on eating zero points total or zero points then saving the rest for treats.
Yeah. WW doesn't get the glycemic index, that carbs can be simple carbs or complex carbs. Which for diabetics/pre-diabetics for instance, matters a bunch because your blood sugar rises faster with simple carbs than with complex carb foods. which in turn plays a role in your blood insulin levels.
Simple carbs or any carbs in extreme excess plays a role in fat storing and higher than normal triglyceride levels..
WW seems to be dumbing down their program to sell it to the masses, saying this freestyle diet is so easy you can eat all you want of even some high calorie foods.
A whole bunch of woo going on with that program imo, I just don't see this working for too many people as the program seems not based on science in so many ways. Yes WW is insane, jumping the shark to sell their program.
I left because of the so called free fruits years ago with the momentum program, and I certainly know that free carbs is another step down the wrong path for many ww members.3 -
I share the concern here, but my husband is on it and has already lost six lbs. BUT he is doing it sensibly and not gorging on a can of Beans or a stack of chicken breast for lunch. And let's be honest, anyone doing that and surprised they put on weight is clueless.
I'm doing CICO and I also cook our dinners. He eats a zero point lunch and then I do a 400-500 calorie dinner for us, and it works for both of us. His lunches used to be awful with chips and chips ahoy cookies, so now he's doing chicken salad wraps with a banana. So it is a major improvement for him.
So yes, the new program lacks guardrails to measure and weigh everything, and can lead to excess if done stupidly, but it can work it you apply common sense. I am shocked at how many points a tablespoon of olive oil has though, or a kind bar has...but it's working for him. But I see alot of obsessive weighing and measuring on here and question how healthy that is, unless you truly are not able to tell an appropriate serving size, which I didn't when I first started this.5 -
jbrown2339 wrote: »I share the concern here, but my husband is on it and has already lost six lbs. BUT he is doing it sensibly and not gorging on a can of Beans or a stack of chicken breast for lunch. And let's be honest, anyone doing that and surprised they put on weight is clueless.
I'm doing CICO and I also cook our dinners. He eats a zero point lunch and then I do a 400-500 calorie dinner for us, and it works for both of us. His lunches used to be awful with chips and chips ahoy cookies, so now he's doing chicken salad wraps with a banana. So it is a major improvement for him.
So yes, the new program lacks guardrails to measure and weigh everything, and can lead to excess if done stupidly, but it can work it you apply common sense. I am shocked at how many points a tablespoon of olive oil has though, or a kind bar has...but it's working for him. But I see alot of obsessive weighing and measuring on here and question how healthy that is, unless you truly are not able to tell an appropriate serving size, which I didn't when I first started this.
I would say that weighing and measuring is only unhealthy if it is making someone unhappy or interfering with the quality of their life. As a behavior, I think it is no more inherently troubling than, say, creating a lunch out of arbitrarily selected "zero point foods."
It's just a tool that works for some people, just like zero point lunches may work for others.
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suzannesimmons3 wrote: »You think that's mad..
Look into slimming world....
I shudder every time my colleague tells me she has had 3 eggs each meal because they 'are free'! And I used to do Slimming World and say these things to myself!!1 -
I thought it was crazy too. Chicken breasts are free! My friend is doing the new program and I thought he had it wrong, it was not possible that they are free... but I looked it up and they are... It would only take 5 chicken breasts, and nothing else the entire day, to put me over. How can that be CICO?
Sure, but would you? And even if you did, would you do it again the next day? What about the next? I’m eating more meat lately than I usually do because I’m doing keto, and even just one chicken breast, cooked dry, gets really freaking boring by the end. I’d imagine it’s the same with a lot of the new free foods: you could absolutely binge on them for a day or two, but it would get old fast.
You have to be really committed to overdo it on these foods without adding oil, butter, or cheese and keep it up on a daily basis. And I don’t think that a few crazy days of eating too much plain chicken are likely to undo a long-term lifestyle change, so while I do have some issues with some of the choices that went into the new plan, I don’t think it’s as inherently catastrophic as a lot of posters seem to believe.6 -
I joined WW in 2006 after years and years of failed weight loss attempts. I sat in meetings surrounded by amazing, inspiring people who lost hundreds of pounds or were on their way. I lost 70 pounds "on program" and loved thinking about food in a more simple, quick way than counting calories. I advocated for that program wherever I went. I kept the weight off, too, And then I joined again recently (mostly just hoping to find like-minded fitness friends. I only had a few pounds I wanted to lose). The whole system had changed. Everything had gotten so complicated, rules for this, exceptions for that. You couldn't figure anything out without the app. Counting calories would be easier. I sat in meetings with despondent members who spent years on the program and were nowhere near their goal. It sounds like it's changed again, and is failing worse.
However. I succeeded when their whole premise was based around the filling effect of fiber. In recent years "carbs" have been so demonized they probably lost membership due to masses of people afraid to eat a carb. They are trying to keep up with the times while holding on to their design structure. I LOVED having "free" food. It saved me. I have a lot of hunger and grew up eating in volume. I literally ate 6 cups of vegetable soup a day for 6 months. It was "free" and it helped fill me up. I lost 2 pounds a week. No way I'd succeed eating 6 chicken breasts a day.3 -
FlyingMolly wrote: »I thought it was crazy too. Chicken breasts are free! My friend is doing the new program and I thought he had it wrong, it was not possible that they are free... but I looked it up and they are... It would only take 5 chicken breasts, and nothing else the entire day, to put me over. How can that be CICO?
Sure, but would you? And even if you did, would you do it again the next day? What about the next? I’m eating more meat lately than I usually do because I’m doing keto, and even just one chicken breast, cooked dry, gets really freaking boring by the end. I’d imagine it’s the same with a lot of the new free foods: you could absolutely binge on them for a day or two, but it would get old fast.
You have to be really committed to overdo it on these foods without adding oil, butter, or cheese and keep it up on a daily basis. And I don’t think that a few crazy days of eating too much plain chicken are likely to undo a long-term lifestyle change, so while I do have some issues with some of the choices that went into the new plan, I don’t think it’s as inherently catastrophic as a lot of posters seem to believe.
I have to agree with this.
When I initially heard about the new program I thought "I could gain weight eating those 'free' foods!"
But after further thought, yes, I would have to be really committed to do that, and it's very unlikely for me personally to over eat any of those foods. I have zero desire to actually eat a dozen eggs or bananas, etc. Especially plain. Not even when I go off the rails and eat whatever.
I see what they are trying to do - "gently guide you to 'healthier' options" by making those free.. and for me it might actually encourage me to eat more fruits and veggies.
But a 200 calorie donut, for example, would equate to almost half your daily points. Which is just ridiculous.3 -
i could eat a whole pineapple. you people are amateurs.13
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Alatariel75 wrote: »I am off work the first week of January. I know I'll be feeling like getting over some of the overindulgences from Christmas, and I'm tempted to do a week of nothing but foods from that list, and reporting back.
and the Aussie "no smoked fish" thing is stupid - I smoke my own fish, it's no different to baking it. What's the issue. And I agree with Kriss on the pork v chicken question, lean pork is barely more calories than chicken.
And holy hell, the price! I thought that $35 a month for online was actually pretty reasonable and better than I remembered, then I realised it was a one-month-only 50% off deal - $70 a month for online and an app? I can get a gym membership for that...
And just to be clear, I'm a WWer from way back, through every incarnation - Classic, Fat n Fibre, Points, Smart Points, Simply Filling... it just gets further and further from the nice simple program it was.
Ya, I was thinking of joining WW when I was in Florida and saw ads for it to be @ $28 a month. Then I moved back to Mass where it cost considerably more, which annoyed me. And then my sister told me about MFP, which I like better than the WW I did in the 90s anyway.
However, this thread has got me curious about how I'd do on the free foods plus points system...0 -
jbrown2339 wrote: »I share the concern here, but my husband is on it and has already lost six lbs. BUT he is doing it sensibly and not gorging on a can of Beans or a stack of chicken breast for lunch. And let's be honest, anyone doing that and surprised they put on weight is clueless.
I'm doing CICO and I also cook our dinners. He eats a zero point lunch and then I do a 400-500 calorie dinner for us, and it works for both of us. His lunches used to be awful with chips and chips ahoy cookies, so now he's doing chicken salad wraps with a banana. So it is a major improvement for him.
So yes, the new program lacks guardrails to measure and weigh everything, and can lead to excess if done stupidly, but it can work it you apply common sense. I am shocked at how many points a tablespoon of olive oil has though, or a kind bar has...but it's working for him. But I see alot of obsessive weighing and measuring on here and question how healthy that is, unless you truly are not able to tell an appropriate serving size, which I didn't when I first started this.
When I was on WW momentum we weighed and measured our foods to convert to points. Heck, I still use the ww food scale I bought back then.
Why now, is measuring your food intake a bad thing as your post seems to suggest. Athletes do it to improve their athletic performances. Diabetics measure their food intake to help keep their blood glucose controlled. And bariatric patients are often told to log and measure their food intake to lose weight.
WW sold products (like cookbooks, calculators, food scales) for years where if used correctly, were to be used to measure your food intake?
The woo leaves many questions. As to why are some foods measured and some foods free (not measured) with the freestyle program.
The new program scientifically is not a rational scheme. The new program imo is a program ww uses to make money. I get this freestyle program works for some, but my guess is plenty of folks will find this freestyle program not helpful to them.
The proof will be in the proverbial pudding. If members quit. Or members have significant gains or stalls while trying to do freestyle exactly as it is written.
The tried and true method of measuring your food intake, excercise intakes still remains the gold standard for weight management. Apps like mfp are a tool to do that.3 -
i could eat a whole pineapple. you people are amateurs.
Me too. I am actually worse with fruit than the protein foods. I found most of the free protein foods just don't taste very good to me. You don't have to eat much to add a lot of calories with free protein, fruit and vegetables like corn and peas. I honestly also hate the paleo or low carb approach WW is taking and demonizing sugar and carbs. Even in the old Points program, if you followed good health guidelines you would limit sugar. A calorie limited diet tends to do that if it is balanced. It seems like now they want you to totally cut it out even in something like bbq sauce. I worked the calories too and my actual calories for pointed good was only about 900. That is really low. Now they also say you can eat like half of your allotted points. That doesn't seem healthy and gives a lot of room for undereating. Free foods can lead to overeating as well and not by eating huge quantities.1 -
newheavensearth wrote: »millcreekr wrote: »I notice Oprah isn't looking too slim in her commercials, and the food they are showing, well, cupcakes? Even though the cupcakes are tiny, tiny, still, I wouldn't recommend eating them every day, empty calories. Really, losing weight and keeping it off is so much a lifestyle change, bottom line. Everything said about lifestyle change is totally right on. A person has to decide, do I really want to go back to eating the way I did that got me fat in the first place, or do I want to give up that instant gratification and still stick to my plan?
Can't the same be said about this plan? How many members eat cookies, desserts, pizza, wine, etc, almost daily, count calories for it, and still lose weight? As for how Oprah looks, she has always looked like that. She lost weight slowly. No dramatic weight loss for her since she signed on with WW. Doesn't mean that she failed or the program didn't work for her.
I actually do some type of dessert every day. That is what keeps me from going crazy and eating 4-5 donuts at a time. I enjoy sweets and I eat at least every night. I do not eat a giant slice of cake and I am still mindful of what I am eating, but it works for me.6 -
My comment on weighing struck a wrong chord and actually didn't make sense in context. In terms of WW they do a lot of mystery behind their points to force you to be in the program to work the magic. So to the poster upthread, completely agree. They do that so you have to pay to access the abikity to count points.
For the weighing thing, in terms of mfp, I do see posts of people insist that you weigh everything even very low calorie vegetables like spinach or shredded carrots of even a clove of garlic. That is what I was referring to, if WW freestyle can give free foods you don't have to weigh, to me that's a plus. One less worry, if you are sensible. Wolf down a carton of eggs and a bunch of bananas, of course you will gain. But the ease in some ways makes it more manageable for people on the go or who don't have time to worry that level of detail.
Having said that, I'm not a fan of WW, I think it's intentionally mysterious to get your money. I just weigh the high calorie stuff, and track veggies roughly, and that seems to work for me, and I don't spend a dIme. I know for some who don't make progress properly weighting everything to figure it out makes sense.2 -
Just so you know, sometimes the weighing of low calorie vegetables isn't all about the calories. I pay attention to iron and protein. If I didn't weigh my vegetables, I'd miss some:
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I just joined MFP yesterday, because of freestyle. It might work for some, but not me. The term “accountability” always came up, but I can be held accountable here too! There’s soooo much more info here, and there’s even a barcode scanner too! Let’s be honest too MFP, is easy on the pocket book.6
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Where is the barcode scanner please? This twit can't find it.KristinaIrisha21 wrote: »I just joined MFP yesterday, because of freestyle. It might work for some, but not me. The term “accountability” always came up, but I can be held accountable here too! There’s soooo much more info here, and there’s even a barcode scanner too! Let’s be honest too MFP, is easy on the pocket book.
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Where is the barcode scanner please? This twit can't find it.KristinaIrisha21 wrote: »I just joined MFP yesterday, because of freestyle. It might work for some, but not me. The term “accountability” always came up, but I can be held accountable here too! There’s soooo much more info here, and there’s even a barcode scanner too! Let’s be honest too MFP, is easy on the pocket book.
In the apps. On the android app, when you are at the screen to pick an item, the scanner is in the top right corner of the screen. Work 90+% of the time for me.0 -
Would you do that consistently while losing weight? Like 3-4 times a week? I'm getting the feeling WW thinks you will self limit on these foods and they can get away with saying you can have all you want knowing you won't have a lot day in day out.0 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »
Would you do that consistently while losing weight? Like 3-4 times a week? I'm getting the feeling WW thinks you will self limit on these foods and they can get away with saying you can have all you want knowing you won't have a lot day in day out.
Yeah, I think it's a combo of - some people will self regulate and succeed, many others won't and will fail but will most likely hang around long enough that we can sell them our next plan in a couple of years.
I don't really understand choosing to pay for a diet plan that forces you to eat mostly free foods, and then says it's your responsibility to not overeat free foods, and in fact to figure out how much of those foods you actually can eat. Why don't I just not pay you and do that anyway? I guess if the meetings are worth the price of admission for a person, that makes sense, but otherwise it seems like a waste of money. Their older programs gave real guidance and direction and you could definitely learn how to eat from them if you wanted to.10
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