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Do diets work?

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Replies

  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,878 Member
    brittyn3 wrote: »
    I wonder how many people involved/read this thread are having burgers inthe very near future because of it :D

    veggie-burger.png
    as soon as humanly possible i'm eating one of these with cheese, onions, tomato, pickles and mustard, on a *gasp* bun!

    The Impossible Burger? I'm really looking forward to trying it!
  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
    brittyn3 wrote: »
    I wonder how many people involved/read this thread are having burgers inthe very near future because of it :D

    I would've but I already had them yesterday.
  • jessiferrrb
    jessiferrrb Posts: 1,758 Member
    brittyn3 wrote: »
    I wonder how many people involved/read this thread are having burgers inthe very near future because of it :D

    veggie-burger.png
    as soon as humanly possible i'm eating one of these with cheese, onions, tomato, pickles and mustard, on a *gasp* bun!

    The Impossible Burger? I'm really looking forward to trying it!

    i really like them because they do well on the grill and kind of look like a 'real' burger - not as flat as most veggie patties. i think they taste great too but i would be lying if i claimed they tasted like meat because i honestly don't remember what meat tastes like.
  • brittyn3
    brittyn3 Posts: 481 Member
    edited February 2018
    Like I said you all eat whatever you want I really don't care - but I still hold firm - a salad with chicken breast is better than a Carls jr Cheeseburger

    And a salad with a cut up cheeseburger on top is better than a double chicken rodeo sandwich from burger king.

    nice moving bar you got here - I am speaking about a chicken breast plane you are talking about a BBQ sauce covered sandwich with white bread buns

    Moving bar?

    You're the one who has been changing the context of your "perfect meal" throughout the whole conversation.

    First you were talking about chicken breast with lemon and bell pepper. Then it became salad with chicken and balsamic vinegar. Then we moved to chicken breast with some nuts and complex carbohydrates.

    Please don't talk about moving the bar.

    who said anything about a perfect meal all i said was a for the same calorie load you can get 4 times the amount of food and its more nutritious

    What if you can't eat 4 times the food?

    when you are trying to be fit you need the nutrients you can't get all your nutrition and a 1000 Calories burger and stay under your calorie load for the day unless you are an elite athlete that can burn those calories BTW 1000 calories is 5mile hike for the average 150 pound woman +/-

    You can get all the micronutrients you need in a few hundred calories. Vegetables are awesome like that. What you need in protein and fats varies by your weight but the minimums are also just a few hundred calories. You can, in theory, get all the nutrition your body needs, your minimums, in below 1000 calories. The PSMF builds on that.

    What your body doesn't need is 1000 calories of chicken breast when your maintenance calories is over 4000.
    I still want to know whether the other 3000 are in your diet are also just "chicken and salad" or if you're eating something that actually has some calorie density that doesn't require you eating 10 pounds of food a day. Also your essential fats seem lacking.

    Quinoa
    Nuts
    peanutbutter
    Vegetables
    Red lean meat
    Cheeses
    Chicken
    Fish
    butter and olive oil for cooking
    Mayo for mixing
    eggs
    When I am in my growth cycles 4000+
    When I am cutting 2800

    and yes I seem to eat all day long

    I don't understand why you consider BBQ sauce (mostly carbohydrates) to be empty calories but mayo (mostly fat) is somehow okay?

    people eat enough sugar in their normal consumption I don;t want more

    *You* don't want more. That doesn't mean that other people don't want carbohydrates.

    Is there a logical reason why a food made mainly of a single macronutrient is "empty" if it's one type of macronutrient, but not "empty" if it's another macronutrient?

    we - as a society - consume too much sugar 60 pound too much on average - so I elect to not consume as much as other - I feel too much sugar in detrimental to fitness

    you're just being so general and bouncing off of one topic to another. Can you refresh us all what you are actually trying to debate at this point? I don't mean that condescending, I'm just unclear at what you think at this point.

    First it was no junk food, now it's junk food in moderation. Then it was diet is bad, only fitness, but we've done nothing EXCEPT talking about diet.

    What are you trying to prove still?

    ETA: I left off my favorite one "junk food lessens the length of your life, someone who eats junk will die before me" (loosely quoted)
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,878 Member
    Like I said you all eat whatever you want I really don't care - but I still hold firm - a salad with chicken breast is better than a Carls jr Cheeseburger

    And a salad with a cut up cheeseburger on top is better than a double chicken rodeo sandwich from burger king.

    nice moving bar you got here - I am speaking about a chicken breast plane you are talking about a BBQ sauce covered sandwich with white bread buns

    Moving bar?

    You're the one who has been changing the context of your "perfect meal" throughout the whole conversation.

    First you were talking about chicken breast with lemon and bell pepper. Then it became salad with chicken and balsamic vinegar. Then we moved to chicken breast with some nuts and complex carbohydrates.

    Please don't talk about moving the bar.

    who said anything about a perfect meal all i said was a for the same calorie load you can get 4 times the amount of food and its more nutritious

    What if you can't eat 4 times the food?

    when you are trying to be fit you need the nutrients you can't get all your nutrition and a 1000 Calories burger and stay under your calorie load for the day unless you are an elite athlete that can burn those calories BTW 1000 calories is 5mile hike for the average 150 pound woman +/-

    You can get all the micronutrients you need in a few hundred calories. Vegetables are awesome like that. What you need in protein and fats varies by your weight but the minimums are also just a few hundred calories. You can, in theory, get all the nutrition your body needs, your minimums, in below 1000 calories. The PSMF builds on that.

    What your body doesn't need is 1000 calories of chicken breast when your maintenance calories is over 4000.
    I still want to know whether the other 3000 are in your diet are also just "chicken and salad" or if you're eating something that actually has some calorie density that doesn't require you eating 10 pounds of food a day. Also your essential fats seem lacking.

    Quinoa
    Nuts
    peanutbutter
    Vegetables
    Red lean meat
    Cheeses
    Chicken
    Fish
    butter and olive oil for cooking
    Mayo for mixing
    eggs
    When I am in my growth cycles 4000+
    When I am cutting 2800

    and yes I seem to eat all day long

    I don't understand why you consider BBQ sauce (mostly carbohydrates) to be empty calories but mayo (mostly fat) is somehow okay?

    people eat enough sugar in their normal consumption I don;t want more

    *You* don't want more. That doesn't mean that other people don't want carbohydrates.

    Is there a logical reason why a food made mainly of a single macronutrient is "empty" if it's one type of macronutrient, but not "empty" if it's another macronutrient?

    we - as a society - consume too much sugar 60 pound too much on average - so I elect to not consume as much as other - I feel too much sugar in detrimental to fitness

    As a society we may, but as individuals we can pay attention to how much sugar we consume and decide (if we want) to have some of it come from BBQ sauce.

    We don't make our dietary decisions based on the average diet of other people or the average needs of other people (or we shouldn't, anyway!), we should make the decision based on the context of our own food choices and needs. Avoiding some BBQ sauce because someone else is eating too much sugar doesn't make any sense.

    Again, is there a logical reason why a food that is mainly carbohydrates would be empty but a food that is mainly fat wouldn't be? Some people consume too much fat. This doesn't mean everyone has to avoid fat or that fat is "empty" calories, does it?

    If Americans began consuming a lot more fat, would you consider your mayo to transform into "empty calories" that you should limit even if you were at a healthy level of fat consumption?
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »

    are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?

    No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.

    We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).

    Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.

    Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.

    nah
    2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories

    Well that's problem number 1. Who wants half the calories? Now I have to eat 2 salads. and you're probably still light on fat and protein

    And what sort of criminal puts BBQ sauce on a bacon cheeseburger?

    that is one of my many meals and I need the nutrition and don't want empty calories of breading bun sugar in the sauces - LOL BBQ - Carls Jr does

    Why is your cheesburger in this scenario have a bun, onion rings and BBQ sauce on it, but the chicken doesn't have those things? Shouldn't they be equal to compare?

    lean meat - sauteed onion rings and peppers a bit of mozzarella cheese maybe some crushed bacon - no bun no sauce in a lettuce wrap


    Ok, but, you didn't even attempt to answer my question. Why cant I eat the burger that way? Why does it have to be on a bun, with deep-fried onion rings and BBQ sauce? To accurately compare, shouldn't the chicken breast be on a bun, with onion rings, smothered in BBQ sauce?

    YOU CAAAAAAAN - my point was between the 2 that burger or a chicken breast with salad you can eat more nutritious food - if you are active and fit you need more nutrient dense food between the 2 - a Carls jr Bacon western Cheeseburger or a sald with chicken breast the later is the better choice for fitness

    But didn't the Carl's Jr Bacon Western Cheeseburger originally come up because you were attempting to use it as some sort of stand-in for the typical cheeseburger?

    Weren't you the one who did that while other people were arguing that cheeseburgers come in all sorts of forms and it's possible for all types of people to find a version that fits into their calorie and nutritional goals and there's nothing inherently unhealthy about foods that fall into the category of "cheeseburger"?

    And all this in the context of you refusing to even explain why you are so convinced that someone who is meeting their nutritional needs but sometimes having a cheeseburger, even a Carl's Jr Bacon Western Cheeseburger, is going to be worse off.

    Nope I used the 2 because the person thought I was part of the eat what you want as long as you stay within your calorie range

    Well, are we talking weight loss (where they can work) or nutrition (where of course what you eat matters and some diets are bad and some good -- note: diet here means "way one eats")?

    Of course, if you know anything about nutrition you know that there's no inherent nutritional difference between someone who only eats chicken breast as their protein vs. someone who eats a variety of protein sources, including occasional cheeseburgers.

    Single meals do not make that much difference, it's the overall diet. And also a meal involving a cheeseburger can be nutrient dense, and in fact more nutrient dense than a meal involving a chicken breast (or 5, sigh).

    If I like cheeseburgers and really want one, it is far more likely that making myself one (or even going out to dinner for one, although I wouldn't choose Carl Jr's, again, that seems to be your thing) will do more to deal with the temptation to overeat than having boneless skinless chicken breast (which I don't much care for). And I've never found that eating a cheeseburger makes me hungry the next day. I might save calories for it, but eh, that's not a huge trade off (I do this with meals I prefer at restaurants, like Indian food, all the time).

    thus I said Chicken, Fish, Lean Red Meat

    A burger can involve lean red meat.

    So are you keto but anti sat fat?
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    Oh no. Are we really back to poor mathematics again? Because I am really not great at maths "math" but even I know that 30g of carbs is not the same as 30g of sugar.

    Plus, as I recall, it was 28 g of carbs, of which 5 g were sugar, or something like that. He double counted.
  • Wynterbourne
    Wynterbourne Posts: 2,041 Member
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    2 shot tequila
    1 shot amaretto
    1 shot triple sec
    2 Shots Orange Juice
    1 Shot Lime Juice

    orange flavored sugar rimmer

    Italian Margarita

    The correct answer is Scotch.

    You misspelled Wheated Bourbon. :wink: