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Do diets work?
Replies
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janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast peppers - still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Why are two meats worse than one meat?
What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings?
I was combining them as there is not real nutritional benefit difference between the 2 - What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings? - nothing - I just like my onion sauteed not breaded
So why call it out at all? That's what I don't understand. What is the significance of the burger having two meats?
Here's the thing about burger places: the vast majority of them will give you what you order. So if you prefer sauteed onions, guess what? You can have them! If you want raw onion (my preference), they'll serve you that! Nobody is going to force you to eat a fried onion just because it is there. The worse case scenario is that you'll pick it off and throw it away.
There is also a thing where you can make burgers at home and purchase exactly what you want and serve it in exactly the style and portion size you like. I highly recommend it, it's great fun. Since I've been doing it, I've never been served a fried onion on a burger and I never have to worry about BBQ sauce showing up either.
You, my friend, have the patience of a damn saint. Right around page 12 I kicked my cat, called my grandma and told her there is no god and life has no meaning, then went down to the parking lot and rammed my car into a guardrail in frustration. I should probably go to Wendy's and get a burger since I'm out already <shrugs>
This is the cheeseburger talking.
If you had lean range free massaged chicken breasts on a bed of wheat grass and a bowl of air you wouldn't be so acidic and be more at peace.
Om.....Om......Om.....15 -
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Irishman1970 wrote: »Like I said you all eat whatever you want I really don't care - but I still hold firm - a salad with chicken breast is better than a Carls jr Cheeseburger
I prefer to look at things in the context of the whole and not drown in the minutia of one particular meal...As fitness and health go, the context of the whole is far more important than the minutia of one particular meal.13 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast peppers - still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Why are two meats worse than one meat?
What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings?
I was combining them as there is not real nutritional benefit difference between the 2 - What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings? - nothing - I just like my onion sauteed not breaded
So why call it out at all? That's what I don't understand. What is the significance of the burger having two meats?
Here's the thing about burger places: the vast majority of them will give you what you order. So if you prefer sauteed onions, guess what? You can have them! If you want raw onion (my preference), they'll serve you that! Nobody is going to force you to eat a fried onion just because it is there. The worse case scenario is that you'll pick it off and throw it away.
There is also a thing where you can make burgers at home and purchase exactly what you want and serve it in exactly the style and portion size you like. I highly recommend it, it's great fun. Since I've been doing it, I've never been served a fried onion on a burger and I never have to worry about BBQ sauce showing up either.
You, my friend, have the patience of a damn saint. Right around page 12 I kicked my cat, called my grandma and told her there is no god and life has no meaning, then went down to the parking lot and rammed my car into a guardrail in frustration. I should probably go to Wendy's and get a burger since I'm out already <shrugs>
Haha, there were several times I had to pause and do some deep breathing. I didn't realize going in that this was the "carbohydrates are all sugars" guy.9 -
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janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
that's the point - you don't need 5 servings to get the same nutrition - people will throw burgers into their DIET and then trying to understand why they are not making the same losses or gains as the person eating more nutrient dense food - Chicken - Fish - lean cuts of beef - less sugar more vegetables
like I said I will crash and burn once in a while and indulge but its NOT part of my plan for fitness - its a deviation - and outlier
The losses and gains are created by the amount of calories that one consumes relative to how much energy one is using. Yeah, some calorie-dense foods like burgers can make it more difficult to meet a specific calorie goal (assuming one is trying to reduce calories), but this can be adjusted for by planning other meals around the higher calorie meal or choosing a lower calorie option (not every burger has to have 1,000+ calories). There are lots of successful people here who are meeting their health, weight, and fitness goals and still having foods like burgers (or pizza or pasta or whatever food you want to believe is so inherently harmful).
Choosing to have a burger (or a cookie or a slice of pizza or a glass of wine) isn't "crashing and burning," it's just life. And in the context of a diet that is meeting your nutritional needs (which is what everyone here is recommending), there's nothing harmful about it.
If someone is a volume eater and wants to have larger servings of lower calorie food, that's perfectly understandable. But not everyone is like that. Some people like smaller servings of more calorie-dense food (or, like many, they mix different types of food).
I legitimately don't understand why someone would care about the strategies that people use to meet the goals of meeting nutritional needs/calorie goals, having satiating meals, and enjoying their lives.
Your strategy may not be my strategy. Why is that a problem?
Its not a problem - the OP asked about diet I told her better to be fit ---- a diet(in the context she was using it) is something you eventually go off of and untimely most like fail - fitness is a lifestyle a diet in her context is not a lifestyle its temporary fix to get her to a short term unsustainable goal without lifestyle changes
So what's wrong with a lifestyle where people are meeting their nutritional needs while eating a variety of foods?
I don't think anyone here is advocating for a temporary "diet" or "fix."
One thing that many people have found to be a sustainable way to live their lives, meet their weight goals, and improve their fitness is to continue eating the foods they enjoy, just in portions that meet their calorie goals. Not everyone wants to eliminate calorie-dense foods or center their meal planning on chicken and bell peppers (no problem for those who enjoy it, but this is a smaller portion of the population, I think).
"So what's wrong with a lifestyle where people are meeting their nutritional needs while eating a variety of foods?"
just because I car goes forward doesn't mean its performing the best it could - to each his/her own - i just figure if i am going to put the time and effort in - I might as well get the most out of it
What is your basis for determining that someone who is sometimes having a burger isn't performing as well as they could?
truth is you body is nothing more than a machine a series of exothermic reactions and enzymatic processes - the better the fuel and the better the performance
Why is a diet that meets your nutritional needs while including foods like bread and cheese and ground beef (the ingredients in a burger) better fuel than a diet that meets your nutritional needs while excluding these foods?
Your "fuel" and "machine" analogies only make sense if you explain how your proposed plan is better fuel. Right now it's a circular argument.
Your body will run better on this fuel because it is better fuel.
Do you have anything to support your assertion that the diet you're proposing is actually "better fuel"?
Quoting again because... still waiting.
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Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Well that's problem number 1. Who wants half the calories? Now I have to eat 2 salads. and you're probably still light on fat and protein
And what sort of criminal puts BBQ sauce on a bacon cheeseburger?
that is one of my many meals and I need the nutrition and don't want empty calories of breading bun sugar in the sauces - LOL BBQ - Carls Jr does
Why is your cheesburger in this scenario have a bun, onion rings and BBQ sauce on it, but the chicken doesn't have those things? Shouldn't they be equal to compare?
lean meat - sauteed onion rings and peppers a bit of mozzarella cheese maybe some crushed bacon - no bun no sauce in a lettuce wrap
Ok, but, you didn't even attempt to answer my question. Why cant I eat the burger that way? Why does it have to be on a bun, with deep-fried onion rings and BBQ sauce? To accurately compare, shouldn't the chicken breast be on a bun, with onion rings, smothered in BBQ sauce?
YOU CAAAAAAAN - my point was between the 2 that burger or a chicken breast with salad you can eat more nutritious food - if you are active and fit you need more nutrient dense food between the 2 - a Carls jr Bacon western Cheeseburger or a sald with chicken breast the later is the better choice for fitness
But it isn't much of a point when you use such extremes. I can easily have a salad with a cheesburger cut up on it. Is the cheeseburger still bad choice for "fitness"?11 -
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cwolfman13 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »Like I said you all eat whatever you want I really don't care - but I still hold firm - a salad with chicken breast is better than a Carls jr Cheeseburger
I prefer to look at things in the context of the whole and not drown in the minutia of one particular meal...As fitness and health go, the context of the whole is far more important than the minutia of one particular meal.
I read this in Spock's voice: The context of the whole is greater than the minutia of the one.18 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »Like I said you all eat whatever you want I really don't care - but I still hold firm - a salad with chicken breast is better than a Carls jr Cheeseburger
And a salad with a cut up cheeseburger on top is better than a double chicken rodeo sandwich from burger king.9 -
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Irishman1970 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »You can be healthy and fit and eat cheeseburgers.
You can be unhealthy and unfit and eat chicken breast and salad.
You cannot isolate the usefulness or healthfulness of a single food or a single meal outside of the context of the overall diet.
Statistically - if you were to do a random sampling you would see the fitter people are the salad with chicken people
And?2 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
well according to you I can eat Oreos and Big macs all day and be just fine so why monitor the macros?Irishman1970 wrote: »Alright people - you fill yourselves with Cheeseburgers and i will fill my self with chicken breast and salad and we will see which one makes it to the top of the mountain first - my god its not rocket science
You honestly think that this is what posters are saying....honestly?
I would really like an answer to this question, because quite obviously that is not what people have said.Oh...I don't know if I'd advocate chicken breast and salad pre-endurance event.....where's the carbs? I usually go for some pasta of some sort before endurance events.
I'd also agree that this is NOT what I'd consider a great pre endurance meal. Add some potatoes or sweet potatoes or pasta, sure!
Also curious what's in this 100 g of sugar burger. Never seen such a thing. Seems inconsistent with the normal ingredients in a burger, but I guess Irishman1970 may have some interesting tastes, dunno.
I stand corrected 50 carbs (most from bun and sauces(sugar) )
Calories (%DV based on daily intake of 2,000 kcal) 1,060 kcal 53%
Calories from Fat 660 kcal 366.7%
Kilojoules 4,435 kj
Pts (by CL, not official Weight Watchers POINTS©; italics if no fiber) 27
Total Fat (DRI 65 g) 73 g 112.3%
Saturated Fat (DRI 20 g) 29 g 145%
Protein (DRI 50 g) 46 g 92%
now compare those numbers a healthier alternative - such as chicken breast with lemon and bell peppers
Same amount of protein 200 Calories
Zero Saturated Fat
Peppers - 70 calories
No simple sugars
I can eat FIVE of these servings for 1 burgers and have much better nutrition
Okay, but welcome to the real world where people are eating burgers along with other foods. Nobody is arguing for an all-burger diet.
Why would I *want* five servings of chicken, lemon, and bell pepper? One serving would be fine, but five is ridiculous. If I tried to live on that I'd be bored and probably craving some fat and additional fiber (the bell pepper has some, but I'm assuming not as much as I'd want to get). Or are you arguing for a diet where chicken, lemon, and bell peppers is just one of the many things one eats?
Well, welcome to the type of diet that everyone else is talking about.
that's the point - you don't need 5 servings to get the same nutrition - people will throw burgers into their DIET and then trying to understand why they are not making the same losses or gains as the person eating more nutrient dense food - Chicken - Fish - lean cuts of beef - less sugar more vegetables
like I said I will crash and burn once in a while and indulge but its NOT part of my plan for fitness - its a deviation - and outlier
Except that many (including myself) ARE getting the losses they want while still eating the burger!
I prefer not to talk about fitness in term of weight loss - 2 woman ----
#1 5'5" 115 pounds
#2 5'5" 135 pounds
which one is more fit?
What does that have to do with anything?? You said "people will throw burgers into their DIET and then trying to understand why they are not making the same losses or gains as the person eating more nutrient dense food - Chicken - Fish - lean cuts of beef - less sugar more vegetables"
I responded that many are eating the cheeseburgers and seeing losses. I can assure you that at 135 lbs down, I am way more "fit" that i was at almost 300 lbs.
question - would you call yourself fit or fitter than you were?
I am differently fit today. And objectively less so at 230 than I was in my profile photo at 255ish
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janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast peppers - still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Why are two meats worse than one meat?
What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings?
I was combining them as there is not real nutritional benefit difference between the 2 - What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings? - nothing - I just like my onion sauteed not breaded
So why call it out at all? That's what I don't understand. What is the significance of the burger having two meats?
Here's the thing about burger places: the vast majority of them will give you what you order. So if you prefer sauteed onions, guess what? You can have them! If you want raw onion (my preference), they'll serve you that! Nobody is going to force you to eat a fried onion just because it is there. The worse case scenario is that you'll pick it off and throw it away.
There is also a thing where you can make burgers at home and purchase exactly what you want and serve it in exactly the style and portion size you like. I highly recommend it, it's great fun. Since I've been doing it, I've never been served a fried onion on a burger and I never have to worry about BBQ sauce showing up either.
You, my friend, have the patience of a damn saint. Right around page 12 I kicked my cat, called my grandma and told her there is no god and life has no meaning, then went down to the parking lot and rammed my car into a guardrail in frustration. I should probably go to Wendy's and get a burger since I'm out already <shrugs>
Would you grab me a burger while you’re out? Thanks
xx
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Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Well that's problem number 1. Who wants half the calories? Now I have to eat 2 salads. and you're probably still light on fat and protein
And what sort of criminal puts BBQ sauce on a bacon cheeseburger?
that is one of my many meals and I need the nutrition and don't want empty calories of breading bun sugar in the sauces - LOL BBQ - Carls Jr does
Why is your cheesburger in this scenario have a bun, onion rings and BBQ sauce on it, but the chicken doesn't have those things? Shouldn't they be equal to compare?
lean meat - sauteed onion rings and peppers a bit of mozzarella cheese maybe some crushed bacon - no bun no sauce in a lettuce wrap
Ok, but, you didn't even attempt to answer my question. Why cant I eat the burger that way? Why does it have to be on a bun, with deep-fried onion rings and BBQ sauce? To accurately compare, shouldn't the chicken breast be on a bun, with onion rings, smothered in BBQ sauce?
YOU CAAAAAAAN - my point was between the 2 that burger or a chicken breast with salad you can eat more nutritious food - if you are active and fit you need more nutrient dense food between the 2 - a Carls jr Bacon western Cheeseburger or a sald with chicken breast the later is the better choice for fitness
You spent a lot of time saying people who eat anything other than that are going to die sooner. You're back peddling now with all of your posts.
ETA clarity: "that" - grilled chicken, veggies and not "junk" food as defined by you earlier5 -
KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Well that's problem number 1. Who wants half the calories? Now I have to eat 2 salads. and you're probably still light on fat and protein
And what sort of criminal puts BBQ sauce on a bacon cheeseburger?
that is one of my many meals and I need the nutrition and don't want empty calories of breading bun sugar in the sauces - LOL BBQ - Carls Jr does
Why is your cheesburger in this scenario have a bun, onion rings and BBQ sauce on it, but the chicken doesn't have those things? Shouldn't they be equal to compare?
lean meat - sauteed onion rings and peppers a bit of mozzarella cheese maybe some crushed bacon - no bun no sauce in a lettuce wrap
Ok, but, you didn't even attempt to answer my question. Why cant I eat the burger that way? Why does it have to be on a bun, with deep-fried onion rings and BBQ sauce? To accurately compare, shouldn't the chicken breast be on a bun, with onion rings, smothered in BBQ sauce?
YOU CAAAAAAAN - my point was between the 2 that burger or a chicken breast with salad you can eat more nutritious food - if you are active and fit you need more nutrient dense food between the 2 - a Carls jr Bacon western Cheeseburger or a sald with chicken breast the later is the better choice for fitness
But it isn't much of a point when you use such extremes. I can easily have a salad with a cheesburger cut up on it. Is the cheeseburger still bad choice for "fitness"?
When I'm grilling my summertime burgers I typically grill onions and tomatoes to top it...sometimes saute some mushrooms and always roasted green chiles. A garden salad is usually my side. I guess I'm not very fit...
I can go out and ride a 1/2 century pretty easy though...not sure what that has to do with my burger...6 -
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Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
that's the point - you don't need 5 servings to get the same nutrition - people will throw burgers into their DIET and then trying to understand why they are not making the same losses or gains as the person eating more nutrient dense food - Chicken - Fish - lean cuts of beef - less sugar more vegetables
like I said I will crash and burn once in a while and indulge but its NOT part of my plan for fitness - its a deviation - and outlier
The losses and gains are created by the amount of calories that one consumes relative to how much energy one is using. Yeah, some calorie-dense foods like burgers can make it more difficult to meet a specific calorie goal (assuming one is trying to reduce calories), but this can be adjusted for by planning other meals around the higher calorie meal or choosing a lower calorie option (not every burger has to have 1,000+ calories). There are lots of successful people here who are meeting their health, weight, and fitness goals and still having foods like burgers (or pizza or pasta or whatever food you want to believe is so inherently harmful).
Choosing to have a burger (or a cookie or a slice of pizza or a glass of wine) isn't "crashing and burning," it's just life. And in the context of a diet that is meeting your nutritional needs (which is what everyone here is recommending), there's nothing harmful about it.
If someone is a volume eater and wants to have larger servings of lower calorie food, that's perfectly understandable. But not everyone is like that. Some people like smaller servings of more calorie-dense food (or, like many, they mix different types of food).
I legitimately don't understand why someone would care about the strategies that people use to meet the goals of meeting nutritional needs/calorie goals, having satiating meals, and enjoying their lives.
Your strategy may not be my strategy. Why is that a problem?
Its not a problem - the OP asked about diet I told her better to be fit ---- a diet(in the context she was using it) is something you eventually go off of and untimely most like fail - fitness is a lifestyle a diet in her context is not a lifestyle its temporary fix to get her to a short term unsustainable goal without lifestyle changes
So what's wrong with a lifestyle where people are meeting their nutritional needs while eating a variety of foods?
I don't think anyone here is advocating for a temporary "diet" or "fix."
One thing that many people have found to be a sustainable way to live their lives, meet their weight goals, and improve their fitness is to continue eating the foods they enjoy, just in portions that meet their calorie goals. Not everyone wants to eliminate calorie-dense foods or center their meal planning on chicken and bell peppers (no problem for those who enjoy it, but this is a smaller portion of the population, I think).
"So what's wrong with a lifestyle where people are meeting their nutritional needs while eating a variety of foods?"
just because I car goes forward doesn't mean its performing the best it could - to each his/her own - i just figure if i am going to put the time and effort in - I might as well get the most out of it
What is your basis for determining that someone who is sometimes having a burger isn't performing as well as they could?
truth is you body is nothing more than a machine a series of exothermic reactions and enzymatic processes - the better the fuel and the better the performance
Why is a diet that meets your nutritional needs while including foods like bread and cheese and ground beef (the ingredients in a burger) better fuel than a diet that meets your nutritional needs while excluding these foods?
Your "fuel" and "machine" analogies only make sense if you explain how your proposed plan is better fuel. Right now it's a circular argument.
Your body will run better on this fuel because it is better fuel.
Do you have anything to support your assertion that the diet you're proposing is actually "better fuel"?
Quoting again because... still waiting.
LMAO are you REALLLLY asking me to get you research saying if you eat better you will perform better? PLEASE dear GOD tell me that is not what you are asking
No. I'm asking you to explain WHY it's better. I'm always researching this stuff, I find it fascinating, and my research says you don't know, that's why you can't answer the question.15 -
Translation: I have no idea what I'm talking about. As such, I have no hope of proving any of my nonsensical proclamations. Please don't ask me for proof, or I might have to go and post a bunch of links again that don't support my pet theory in any way, shape, or form.14
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Irishman1970 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »You can be healthy and fit and eat cheeseburgers.
You can be unhealthy and unfit and eat chicken breast and salad.
You cannot isolate the usefulness or healthfulness of a single food or a single meal outside of the context of the overall diet.
Statistically - if you were to do a random sampling you would see the fitter people are the salad with chicken people
Statistically - everyone here thinks you have no idea what you are talking about. SCIENCE!18 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »Like I said you all eat whatever you want I really don't care - but I still hold firm - a salad with chicken breast is better than a Carls jr Cheeseburger
I prefer to look at things in the context of the whole and not drown in the minutia of one particular meal...As fitness and health go, the context of the whole is far more important than the minutia of one particular meal.
when that meal is half your calories for the day it is no longer 1 particular meal - it now becomes half you calories for the day
And what about those people that only eat 1 or 2 meals a day?10 -
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Translation: I have no idea what I'm talking about. As such, I have no hope of proving any of my nonsensical proclamations. Please don't ask me for proof, or I might have to go and post a bunch of links again that don't support my pet theory in any way, shape, or form.
I'm curious if Irishman actually believes what he's saying and is making sense to himself, or if he's in too deep now9 -
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Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Well that's problem number 1. Who wants half the calories? Now I have to eat 2 salads. and you're probably still light on fat and protein
And what sort of criminal puts BBQ sauce on a bacon cheeseburger?
that is one of my many meals and I need the nutrition and don't want empty calories of breading bun sugar in the sauces - LOL BBQ - Carls Jr does
Why is your cheesburger in this scenario have a bun, onion rings and BBQ sauce on it, but the chicken doesn't have those things? Shouldn't they be equal to compare?
lean meat - sauteed onion rings and peppers a bit of mozzarella cheese maybe some crushed bacon - no bun no sauce in a lettuce wrap
Ok, but, you didn't even attempt to answer my question. Why cant I eat the burger that way? Why does it have to be on a bun, with deep-fried onion rings and BBQ sauce? To accurately compare, shouldn't the chicken breast be on a bun, with onion rings, smothered in BBQ sauce?
YOU CAAAAAAAN - my point was between the 2 that burger or a chicken breast with salad you can eat more nutritious food - if you are active and fit you need more nutrient dense food between the 2 - a Carls jr Bacon western Cheeseburger or a sald with chicken breast the later is the better choice for fitness
You spent a lot of time saying people who eat anything other than that are going to die sooner. You're back peddling now with all of your posts.
Yep! He said I was gonna die sooner than he will ... cuz he eats better
6 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Well that's problem number 1. Who wants half the calories? Now I have to eat 2 salads. and you're probably still light on fat and protein
And what sort of criminal puts BBQ sauce on a bacon cheeseburger?
that is one of my many meals and I need the nutrition and don't want empty calories of breading bun sugar in the sauces - LOL BBQ - Carls Jr does
Why is your cheesburger in this scenario have a bun, onion rings and BBQ sauce on it, but the chicken doesn't have those things? Shouldn't they be equal to compare?
lean meat - sauteed onion rings and peppers a bit of mozzarella cheese maybe some crushed bacon - no bun no sauce in a lettuce wrap
Ok, but, you didn't even attempt to answer my question. Why cant I eat the burger that way? Why does it have to be on a bun, with deep-fried onion rings and BBQ sauce? To accurately compare, shouldn't the chicken breast be on a bun, with onion rings, smothered in BBQ sauce?
YOU CAAAAAAAN - my point was between the 2 that burger or a chicken breast with salad you can eat more nutritious food - if you are active and fit you need more nutrient dense food between the 2 - a Carls jr Bacon western Cheeseburger or a sald with chicken breast the later is the better choice for fitness
But it isn't much of a point when you use such extremes. I can easily have a salad with a cheesburger cut up on it. Is the cheeseburger still bad choice for "fitness"?
When I'm grilling my summertime burgers I typically grill onions and tomatoes to top it...sometimes saute some mushrooms and always roasted green chiles. A garden salad is usually my side. I guess I'm not very fit...
I can go out and ride a 1/2 century pretty easy though...not sure what that has to do with my burger...
funny how your throw a 50 mile bike ride into a thread where OP is talking about fad diets but ok - welcome to the world of .0001% of the population that will ride a 50
You were talking about burgers not being a good fitness choice...riding a 1/2 century is fitness related...my burger really isn't...10 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »Like I said you all eat whatever you want I really don't care - but I still hold firm - a salad with chicken breast is better than a Carls jr Cheeseburger
Sure because it totally makes sense than a single meal is "better" than another meal in every single circumstance and dietary context for every single type of person. That's not at all a ridiculous claim.
Whether you're a starving person rescued from a mine collapse to a baby having their first meal of solid food to a eldery person recovering from stomach flu to a teenager trying to put on muscle weight to a middle aged office worker preparing for the long run in their marathon training to a cancer patient who is trying to maintain their weight while undergoing chemo to a woman in her 20s trying to lose 30 pounds, there's one single meal that is "better" for every human on earth regardless of their situation and circumstance and that meal can be determined without understanding anything about what other meals a person is eating and what they're doing.
Truly, this is the point of view I'd expect from someone who had read nothing of substance about nutrition and fitness. Your absolute refusal to consider reality and your determination to cling tight to your received myths about nutrition is almost admirable. Nothing, I mean nothing, is getting in there.25 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Well that's problem number 1. Who wants half the calories? Now I have to eat 2 salads. and you're probably still light on fat and protein
And what sort of criminal puts BBQ sauce on a bacon cheeseburger?
that is one of my many meals and I need the nutrition and don't want empty calories of breading bun sugar in the sauces - LOL BBQ - Carls Jr does
Why is your cheesburger in this scenario have a bun, onion rings and BBQ sauce on it, but the chicken doesn't have those things? Shouldn't they be equal to compare?
lean meat - sauteed onion rings and peppers a bit of mozzarella cheese maybe some crushed bacon - no bun no sauce in a lettuce wrap
Ok, but, you didn't even attempt to answer my question. Why cant I eat the burger that way? Why does it have to be on a bun, with deep-fried onion rings and BBQ sauce? To accurately compare, shouldn't the chicken breast be on a bun, with onion rings, smothered in BBQ sauce?
YOU CAAAAAAAN - my point was between the 2 that burger or a chicken breast with salad you can eat more nutritious food - if you are active and fit you need more nutrient dense food between the 2 - a Carls jr Bacon western Cheeseburger or a sald with chicken breast the later is the better choice for fitness
But it isn't much of a point when you use such extremes. I can easily have a salad with a cheesburger cut up on it. Is the cheeseburger still bad choice for "fitness"?
When I'm grilling my summertime burgers I typically grill onions and tomatoes to top it...sometimes saute some mushrooms and always roasted green chiles. A garden salad is usually my side. I guess I'm not very fit...
I can go out and ride a 1/2 century pretty easy though...not sure what that has to do with my burger...
funny how your throw a 50 mile bike ride into a thread where OP is talking about fad diets but ok - welcome to the world of .0001% of the population that will ride a 50
The OP is the system who split this thread into the debate board so we could debate it. You know, by providing links and letting the thread drift and stuff. I don't think you read past the subject line.7 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Well that's problem number 1. Who wants half the calories? Now I have to eat 2 salads. and you're probably still light on fat and protein
And what sort of criminal puts BBQ sauce on a bacon cheeseburger?
that is one of my many meals and I need the nutrition and don't want empty calories of breading bun sugar in the sauces - LOL BBQ - Carls Jr does
Why is your cheesburger in this scenario have a bun, onion rings and BBQ sauce on it, but the chicken doesn't have those things? Shouldn't they be equal to compare?
lean meat - sauteed onion rings and peppers a bit of mozzarella cheese maybe some crushed bacon - no bun no sauce in a lettuce wrap
Ok, but, you didn't even attempt to answer my question. Why cant I eat the burger that way? Why does it have to be on a bun, with deep-fried onion rings and BBQ sauce? To accurately compare, shouldn't the chicken breast be on a bun, with onion rings, smothered in BBQ sauce?
YOU CAAAAAAAN - my point was between the 2 that burger or a chicken breast with salad you can eat more nutritious food - if you are active and fit you need more nutrient dense food between the 2 - a Carls jr Bacon western Cheeseburger or a sald with chicken breast the later is the better choice for fitness
But didn't the Carl's Jr Bacon Western Cheeseburger originally come up because you were attempting to use it as some sort of stand-in for the typical cheeseburger?
Weren't you the one who did that while other people were arguing that cheeseburgers come in all sorts of forms and it's possible for all types of people to find a version that fits into their calorie and nutritional goals and there's nothing inherently unhealthy about foods that fall into the category of "cheeseburger"?
And all this in the context of you refusing to even explain why you are so convinced that someone who is meeting their nutritional needs but sometimes having a cheeseburger, even a Carl's Jr Bacon Western Cheeseburger, is going to be worse off.
Nope I used the 2 because the person thought I was part of the eat what you want as long as you stay within your calorie range - I posted that I am in the camp of quality food vs cheeseburgers - NOW is there nutrition in a Carls Jr Burger YES - but there are MUCH BETTER CHOICES - sucks as a good healthy salad with chicken breast and you can consume more staying under you calories which will curb hunger cravings
Yes, so you *were* the person who introduced this specific Carl's Jr cheeseburger into the conversation.
Not everyone is a volume eater. Some people feel better when they have meals that are more calorie-dense.
Consuming more food is a priority for you. It isn't for everyone.9 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »Like I said you all eat whatever you want I really don't care - but I still hold firm - a salad with chicken breast is better than a Carls jr Cheeseburger
Sure because it totally makes sense than a single meal is "better" than another meal in every single circumstance and dietary context for every single type of person. That's not at all a ridiculous claim.
Whether you're a starving person rescued from a mine collapse to a baby having their first meal of solid food to a eldery person recovering from stomach flu to a teenager trying to put on muscle weight to a middle aged office worker preparing for the long run in their marathon training to a cancer patient who is trying to maintain their weight while undergoing chemo to a woman in her 20s trying to lose 30 pounds, there's one single meal that is "better" for every human on earth regardless of their situation and circumstance and that meal can be determined without understanding anything about what other meals a person is eating and what they're doing.
Truly, this is the point of view I'd expect from someone who had read nothing of substance about nutrition and fitness. Your absolute refusal to consider reality and cling tight to your received myths about nutrition is almost admirable. Nothing, I mean nothing, is getting in there.
And seriously orthorexia nervosa...9
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