Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Do diets work?
Replies
-
Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Oh! Now that you changed your profile pic I remember the other thread. Because you did the same thing there, changed your pic halfway through, while arguing against something no one said for 10 pages. Now it's all like deja vu, MFP does Groundhog Day.
When you don't ever get joy from food, you gotta get your kicks somewhere . . .
I coach kids - soccer football - I lift, hike, run,,, travel
My comment was in jest, I'm not seriously asserting that telling strangers how they should eat is the only source of pleasure in your life.
As we've established, in addition to your recreational activities, you also have spices and the flavor of grilling to enjoy.5 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
that's the point - you don't need 5 servings to get the same nutrition - people will throw burgers into their DIET and then trying to understand why they are not making the same losses or gains as the person eating more nutrient dense food - Chicken - Fish - lean cuts of beef - less sugar more vegetables
like I said I will crash and burn once in a while and indulge but its NOT part of my plan for fitness - its a deviation - and outlier
The losses and gains are created by the amount of calories that one consumes relative to how much energy one is using. Yeah, some calorie-dense foods like burgers can make it more difficult to meet a specific calorie goal (assuming one is trying to reduce calories), but this can be adjusted for by planning other meals around the higher calorie meal or choosing a lower calorie option (not every burger has to have 1,000+ calories). There are lots of successful people here who are meeting their health, weight, and fitness goals and still having foods like burgers (or pizza or pasta or whatever food you want to believe is so inherently harmful).
Choosing to have a burger (or a cookie or a slice of pizza or a glass of wine) isn't "crashing and burning," it's just life. And in the context of a diet that is meeting your nutritional needs (which is what everyone here is recommending), there's nothing harmful about it.
If someone is a volume eater and wants to have larger servings of lower calorie food, that's perfectly understandable. But not everyone is like that. Some people like smaller servings of more calorie-dense food (or, like many, they mix different types of food).
I legitimately don't understand why someone would care about the strategies that people use to meet the goals of meeting nutritional needs/calorie goals, having satiating meals, and enjoying their lives.
Your strategy may not be my strategy. Why is that a problem?
Its not a problem - the OP asked about diet I told her better to be fit ---- a diet(in the context she was using it) is something you eventually go off of and untimely most like fail - fitness is a lifestyle a diet in her context is not a lifestyle its temporary fix to get her to a short term unsustainable goal without lifestyle changes
So what's wrong with a lifestyle where people are meeting their nutritional needs while eating a variety of foods?
I don't think anyone here is advocating for a temporary "diet" or "fix."
One thing that many people have found to be a sustainable way to live their lives, meet their weight goals, and improve their fitness is to continue eating the foods they enjoy, just in portions that meet their calorie goals. Not everyone wants to eliminate calorie-dense foods or center their meal planning on chicken and bell peppers (no problem for those who enjoy it, but this is a smaller portion of the population, I think).
"So what's wrong with a lifestyle where people are meeting their nutritional needs while eating a variety of foods?"
just because I car goes forward doesn't mean its performing the best it could - to each his/her own - i just figure if i am going to put the time and effort in - I might as well get the most out of it
What is your basis for determining that someone who is sometimes having a burger isn't performing as well as they could?4 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
that's the point - you don't need 5 servings to get the same nutrition - people will throw burgers into their DIET and then trying to understand why they are not making the same losses or gains as the person eating more nutrient dense food - Chicken - Fish - lean cuts of beef - less sugar more vegetables
like I said I will crash and burn once in a while and indulge but its NOT part of my plan for fitness - its a deviation - and outlier
The losses and gains are created by the amount of calories that one consumes relative to how much energy one is using. Yeah, some calorie-dense foods like burgers can make it more difficult to meet a specific calorie goal (assuming one is trying to reduce calories), but this can be adjusted for by planning other meals around the higher calorie meal or choosing a lower calorie option (not every burger has to have 1,000+ calories). There are lots of successful people here who are meeting their health, weight, and fitness goals and still having foods like burgers (or pizza or pasta or whatever food you want to believe is so inherently harmful).
Choosing to have a burger (or a cookie or a slice of pizza or a glass of wine) isn't "crashing and burning," it's just life. And in the context of a diet that is meeting your nutritional needs (which is what everyone here is recommending), there's nothing harmful about it.
If someone is a volume eater and wants to have larger servings of lower calorie food, that's perfectly understandable. But not everyone is like that. Some people like smaller servings of more calorie-dense food (or, like many, they mix different types of food).
I legitimately don't understand why someone would care about the strategies that people use to meet the goals of meeting nutritional needs/calorie goals, having satiating meals, and enjoying their lives.
Your strategy may not be my strategy. Why is that a problem?
Its not a problem - the OP asked about diet I told her better to be fit ---- a diet(in the context she was using it) is something you eventually go off of and untimely most like fail - fitness is a lifestyle a diet in her context is not a lifestyle its temporary fix to get her to a short term unsustainable goal without lifestyle changes
So what's wrong with a lifestyle where people are meeting their nutritional needs while eating a variety of foods?
I don't think anyone here is advocating for a temporary "diet" or "fix."
One thing that many people have found to be a sustainable way to live their lives, meet their weight goals, and improve their fitness is to continue eating the foods they enjoy, just in portions that meet their calorie goals. Not everyone wants to eliminate calorie-dense foods or center their meal planning on chicken and bell peppers (no problem for those who enjoy it, but this is a smaller portion of the population, I think).
"So what's wrong with a lifestyle where people are meeting their nutritional needs while eating a variety of foods?"
just because I car goes forward doesn't mean its performing the best it could - to each his/her own - i just figure if i am going to put the time and effort in - I might as well get the most out of it
What is your basis for determining that someone who is sometimes having a burger isn't performing as well as they could?
goes down easier with a sauce or something but often I just pop a can on tuna and glass of water and eat
You may not have understood my question. I'll rephrase it, let me know if it still isn't clear.
I asked what was wrong with people meeting their nutritional needs with a variety of foods and you replied with a car analogy, saying that it doesn't mean the person is performing as well as they could be.
How did you determine that the people in this thread who are eating a variety of foods aren't performing as well as they could be if they followed your nutritional plan?7 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
that's the point - you don't need 5 servings to get the same nutrition - people will throw burgers into their DIET and then trying to understand why they are not making the same losses or gains as the person eating more nutrient dense food - Chicken - Fish - lean cuts of beef - less sugar more vegetables
like I said I will crash and burn once in a while and indulge but its NOT part of my plan for fitness - its a deviation - and outlier
The losses and gains are created by the amount of calories that one consumes relative to how much energy one is using. Yeah, some calorie-dense foods like burgers can make it more difficult to meet a specific calorie goal (assuming one is trying to reduce calories), but this can be adjusted for by planning other meals around the higher calorie meal or choosing a lower calorie option (not every burger has to have 1,000+ calories). There are lots of successful people here who are meeting their health, weight, and fitness goals and still having foods like burgers (or pizza or pasta or whatever food you want to believe is so inherently harmful).
Choosing to have a burger (or a cookie or a slice of pizza or a glass of wine) isn't "crashing and burning," it's just life. And in the context of a diet that is meeting your nutritional needs (which is what everyone here is recommending), there's nothing harmful about it.
If someone is a volume eater and wants to have larger servings of lower calorie food, that's perfectly understandable. But not everyone is like that. Some people like smaller servings of more calorie-dense food (or, like many, they mix different types of food).
I legitimately don't understand why someone would care about the strategies that people use to meet the goals of meeting nutritional needs/calorie goals, having satiating meals, and enjoying their lives.
Your strategy may not be my strategy. Why is that a problem?
Its not a problem - the OP asked about diet I told her better to be fit ---- a diet(in the context she was using it) is something you eventually go off of and untimely most like fail - fitness is a lifestyle a diet in her context is not a lifestyle its temporary fix to get her to a short term unsustainable goal without lifestyle changes
So what's wrong with a lifestyle where people are meeting their nutritional needs while eating a variety of foods?
I don't think anyone here is advocating for a temporary "diet" or "fix."
One thing that many people have found to be a sustainable way to live their lives, meet their weight goals, and improve their fitness is to continue eating the foods they enjoy, just in portions that meet their calorie goals. Not everyone wants to eliminate calorie-dense foods or center their meal planning on chicken and bell peppers (no problem for those who enjoy it, but this is a smaller portion of the population, I think).
"So what's wrong with a lifestyle where people are meeting their nutritional needs while eating a variety of foods?"
just because I car goes forward doesn't mean its performing the best it could - to each his/her own - i just figure if i am going to put the time and effort in - I might as well get the most out of it
What is your basis for determining that someone who is sometimes having a burger isn't performing as well as they could?
truth is you body is nothing more than a machine a series of exothermic reactions and enzymatic processes - the better the fuel and the better the performance
Indeed. And that's why 500 calories of Bacon Cheeseburger is better than 500 calories of chicken breast. Because it's a balanced fuel
24 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
that's the point - you don't need 5 servings to get the same nutrition - people will throw burgers into their DIET and then trying to understand why they are not making the same losses or gains as the person eating more nutrient dense food - Chicken - Fish - lean cuts of beef - less sugar more vegetables
like I said I will crash and burn once in a while and indulge but its NOT part of my plan for fitness - its a deviation - and outlier
The losses and gains are created by the amount of calories that one consumes relative to how much energy one is using. Yeah, some calorie-dense foods like burgers can make it more difficult to meet a specific calorie goal (assuming one is trying to reduce calories), but this can be adjusted for by planning other meals around the higher calorie meal or choosing a lower calorie option (not every burger has to have 1,000+ calories). There are lots of successful people here who are meeting their health, weight, and fitness goals and still having foods like burgers (or pizza or pasta or whatever food you want to believe is so inherently harmful).
Choosing to have a burger (or a cookie or a slice of pizza or a glass of wine) isn't "crashing and burning," it's just life. And in the context of a diet that is meeting your nutritional needs (which is what everyone here is recommending), there's nothing harmful about it.
If someone is a volume eater and wants to have larger servings of lower calorie food, that's perfectly understandable. But not everyone is like that. Some people like smaller servings of more calorie-dense food (or, like many, they mix different types of food).
I legitimately don't understand why someone would care about the strategies that people use to meet the goals of meeting nutritional needs/calorie goals, having satiating meals, and enjoying their lives.
Your strategy may not be my strategy. Why is that a problem?
Its not a problem - the OP asked about diet I told her better to be fit ---- a diet(in the context she was using it) is something you eventually go off of and untimely most like fail - fitness is a lifestyle a diet in her context is not a lifestyle its temporary fix to get her to a short term unsustainable goal without lifestyle changes
So what's wrong with a lifestyle where people are meeting their nutritional needs while eating a variety of foods?
I don't think anyone here is advocating for a temporary "diet" or "fix."
One thing that many people have found to be a sustainable way to live their lives, meet their weight goals, and improve their fitness is to continue eating the foods they enjoy, just in portions that meet their calorie goals. Not everyone wants to eliminate calorie-dense foods or center their meal planning on chicken and bell peppers (no problem for those who enjoy it, but this is a smaller portion of the population, I think).
"So what's wrong with a lifestyle where people are meeting their nutritional needs while eating a variety of foods?"
just because I car goes forward doesn't mean its performing the best it could - to each his/her own - i just figure if i am going to put the time and effort in - I might as well get the most out of it
What is your basis for determining that someone who is sometimes having a burger isn't performing as well as they could?
truth is you body is nothing more than a machine a series of exothermic reactions and enzymatic processes - the better the fuel and the better the performance
Why is a diet that meets your nutritional needs while including foods like bread and cheese and ground beef (the ingredients in a burger) better fuel than a diet that meets your nutritional needs while excluding these foods?
Your "fuel" and "machine" analogies only make sense if you explain how your proposed plan is better fuel. Right now it's a circular argument.
Your body will run better on this fuel because it is better fuel.
Do you have anything to support your assertion that the diet you're proposing is actually "better fuel"?9 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »Oh! Now that you changed your profile pic I remember the other thread. Because you did the same thing there, changed your pic halfway through, while arguing against something no one said for 10 pages. Now it's all like deja vu, MFP does Groundhog Day.
nope that pic has been the same for 3 days now - but feel free to creep
Nope, when you first posted in the thread is was the snappy pic of you with a gun that was showing next to your posts. I don't have to look at your profile to see that.
ahhhhhhh I know what it was - the people that run this don't like guns I bet - they removed my pic
Or it could be due to the fact that someone shot up a school with an AR-15 yesterday....¯\_(ツ)_/¯17 -
Gimme that Bacon Cheeseburger!!!1
-
janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
that's the point - you don't need 5 servings to get the same nutrition - people will throw burgers into their DIET and then trying to understand why they are not making the same losses or gains as the person eating more nutrient dense food - Chicken - Fish - lean cuts of beef - less sugar more vegetables
like I said I will crash and burn once in a while and indulge but its NOT part of my plan for fitness - its a deviation - and outlier
The losses and gains are created by the amount of calories that one consumes relative to how much energy one is using. Yeah, some calorie-dense foods like burgers can make it more difficult to meet a specific calorie goal (assuming one is trying to reduce calories), but this can be adjusted for by planning other meals around the higher calorie meal or choosing a lower calorie option (not every burger has to have 1,000+ calories). There are lots of successful people here who are meeting their health, weight, and fitness goals and still having foods like burgers (or pizza or pasta or whatever food you want to believe is so inherently harmful).
Choosing to have a burger (or a cookie or a slice of pizza or a glass of wine) isn't "crashing and burning," it's just life. And in the context of a diet that is meeting your nutritional needs (which is what everyone here is recommending), there's nothing harmful about it.
If someone is a volume eater and wants to have larger servings of lower calorie food, that's perfectly understandable. But not everyone is like that. Some people like smaller servings of more calorie-dense food (or, like many, they mix different types of food).
I legitimately don't understand why someone would care about the strategies that people use to meet the goals of meeting nutritional needs/calorie goals, having satiating meals, and enjoying their lives.
Your strategy may not be my strategy. Why is that a problem?
Its not a problem - the OP asked about diet I told her better to be fit ---- a diet(in the context she was using it) is something you eventually go off of and untimely most like fail - fitness is a lifestyle a diet in her context is not a lifestyle its temporary fix to get her to a short term unsustainable goal without lifestyle changes
So what's wrong with a lifestyle where people are meeting their nutritional needs while eating a variety of foods?
I don't think anyone here is advocating for a temporary "diet" or "fix."
One thing that many people have found to be a sustainable way to live their lives, meet their weight goals, and improve their fitness is to continue eating the foods they enjoy, just in portions that meet their calorie goals. Not everyone wants to eliminate calorie-dense foods or center their meal planning on chicken and bell peppers (no problem for those who enjoy it, but this is a smaller portion of the population, I think).
"So what's wrong with a lifestyle where people are meeting their nutritional needs while eating a variety of foods?"
just because I car goes forward doesn't mean its performing the best it could - to each his/her own - i just figure if i am going to put the time and effort in - I might as well get the most out of it
What is your basis for determining that someone who is sometimes having a burger isn't performing as well as they could?
truth is you body is nothing more than a machine a series of exothermic reactions and enzymatic processes - the better the fuel and the better the performance
Why is a diet that meets your nutritional needs while including foods like bread and cheese and ground beef (the ingredients in a burger) better fuel than a diet that meets your nutritional needs while excluding these foods?
Your "fuel" and "machine" analogies only make sense if you explain how your proposed plan is better fuel. Right now it's a circular argument.
Your body will run better on this fuel because it is better fuel.
Do you have anything to support your assertion that the diet you're proposing is actually "better fuel"?
Quoted for emphasis. This is the still unanswered question we've all been asking.4 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »
the diet of lean meats and vegetables is better than eating cheeseburgers?
Yes. Your claim is that a diet that excludes cheeseburgers is better than a diet consisting of a variety of foods (including lean meat, vegetables, and cheeseburgers). What is the basis for this claim? What facts do you have to back it up?
You can't say it is better because it is better. That's what is known as a circular argument and that is what you appear to be making right now.
How is it better? Why is it better? If two people are meeting their nutritional needs, why is the one who excludes cheeseburgers better off than the person who sometimes eats them?9 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.10 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
the diet of lean meats and vegetables is better than eating cheeseburgers?
Yes. Your claim is that a diet that excludes cheeseburgers is better than a diet consisting of a variety of foods (including lean meat, vegetables, and cheeseburgers). What is the basis for this claim? What facts do you have to back it up?
You can't say it is better because it is better. That's what is known as a circular argument and that is what you appear to be making right now.
How is it better? Why is it better? If two people are meeting their nutritional needs, why is the one who excludes cheeseburgers better off than the person who sometimes eats them?
A diet the excludes cheeseburgers and replaces it with a healthier alternative like chicken breast and balsamic vinegar salad?
Sure. If a person is meeting their nutritional needs while sometimes having cheeseburgers, how are they better off if they eliminate the cheeseburger and replace it with chicken breast and salad dressed with balsamic vinegar?
6
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.3K Introduce Yourself
- 43.4K Getting Started
- 259.7K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 387 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.4K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.2K MyFitnessPal Information
- 22 News and Announcements
- 901 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.2K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions