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Do diets work?
Replies
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Irishman1970 wrote: »
well according to you I can eat Oreos and Big macs all day and be just fine so why monitor the macros?Irishman1970 wrote: »Alright people - you fill yourselves with Cheeseburgers and i will fill my self with chicken breast and salad and we will see which one makes it to the top of the mountain first - my god its not rocket science
You honestly think that this is what posters are saying....honestly?
Oh...I don't know if I'd advocate chicken breast and salad pre-endurance event.....where's the carbs? I usually go for some pasta of some sort before endurance events.11 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
Actually today's engines are built to run on regular and show no increase in stability or performance from a higher grade of fuel...
really - that's what you got out of that comment? fine then - you put oreos in your and i will put fish in mine
I will happily eat oreos instead of fish. As I said, I have lost 135 lbs and maintained for almost a year now. All while eating pizza, tacos, Doritos, Oreos, cheesburgers, potato chips and ice cream. In fact, I just ate some chili mac and cheese and ice cream for lunch.
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Irishman1970 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »Alright people - you fill yourselves with Cheeseburgers and i will fill my self with chicken breast and salad and we will see which one makes it to the top of the mountain first - my god its not rocket science
Ok, so basically, if I eat 5000 calories of your 'healthy' foods every day (and gain a ton of weight in the process), then I will be more fit than the person who eats junk and loses all of the extra weight?
if you burn them off like me you will be just fine
re-read the quote and answer the question that was asked2 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »Alright people - you fill yourselves with Cheeseburgers and i will fill my self with chicken breast and salad and we will see which one makes it to the top of the mountain first - my god its not rocket science
Ok, so basically, if I eat 5000 calories of your 'healthy' foods every day (and gain a ton of weight in the process), then I will be more fit than the person who eats junk and loses all of the extra weight?
if you burn them off like me you will be just fine
No more fit than someone who eats 5000 calories of other foods and burns them off
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Irishman1970 wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »DJ_Skywalker wrote: »Phew! Did he hang up?
Without sharing his qualifications or opening his food diary.
well according to you I can eat Oreos and Big macs all day and be just fine so why monitor the macros?
Never once said that. In fact, I didn't make a single comment about my diet (noun).
So, you're saying you don't log.5 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
Actually today's engines are built to run on regular and show no increase in stability or performance from a higher grade of fuel...
really - that's what you got out of that comment? fine then - you put oreos in your and i will put fish in mine
Also, what else should I get from that comment? You used false information to prove a point that is also false.
It's like saying "Diets don't work because the sky is green!"8 -
Since you suggested responding to your initial post, @Irishman1970, I am:Irishman1970 wrote: »Diets don't work because you can go ff them - you need to approach life as a fitness journey not as a diet - a diet is something you go on and off of - Fitness is a lifestyle - much harder to say I am going to stop being fit - alot easier to say i am going off my diet
The problem with this claim is that it defines diet in a specific way that is not how everyone defines diet.
A diet is, plain and simple, one of two things. First, how someone (or a group) eats, i.e., the Mediterranean diet, or, second, eating so that calories in are less than calories out, keeping a calorie deficit.
In the second sense, yes, obviously diets work, and they work even though you are expected to go off them (eat at maintenance) when you have lost the weight you want to lose.
If you then eat above maintenance, yes, you will gain back the weight, but there is nothing in dieting that makes that a necessary result.
Fitness is not an alternative to a diet (if you are overweight fitness should involve eating at a calorie deficit, i.e., a diet, whether you call it that or count calories or not). Fitness means that you work on being fit, which will involve exercise and what not, most likely.
You seem to be assuming that if someone calls it a "diet" (which is a perfectly correct word for ANY calorie deficit), then they are not concerned with healthful eating or satiety or fitness, and that's just baseless and untrue.
At best this is a semantic argument.
For the record, the poster with whom people were initially arguing said that calories do not matter, if you eat 100% plant based you won't gain and if you don't you aren't eating healthy. So if you think you are agreeing with him, you are wrong. I'm sure he'd tell you your chicken breasts are that CRAP word you love so much!!!10 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »Alright people - you fill yourselves with Cheeseburgers and i will fill my self with chicken breast and salad and we will see which one makes it to the top of the mountain first - my god its not rocket science
You honestly think that this is what posters are saying....honestly?
Oh...chicken breast and salad sounds like a pretty terrible pre-endurance event....where's the carbs? I usually go for some pasta of some sort pre-endurance events.
I loved carb loading before big races, I didn't love protein loading the day of. My mom always made me eat tuna. It took me until my adult life to be able to eat it again.4 -
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Irishman1970 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »Alright people - you fill yourselves with Cheeseburgers and i will fill my self with chicken breast and salad and we will see which one makes it to the top of the mountain first - my god its not rocket science
You honestly think that this is what posters are saying....honestly?
Oh...chicken breast and salad sounds like a pretty terrible pre-endurance event....where's the carbs? I usually go for some pasta of some sort pre-endurance events.
I loved carb loading before big races, I didn't love protein loading the day of. My mom always made me eat tuna. It took me until my adult life to be able to eat it again.
that s not a diet or fitness that is a sport specific event used to obtain a certain goal for the next 12 hours - I carb load as well before an event usually on weekend where my hikes are longer than 8 miiles
Response to the bold. You just said yourself it's not necessary to carb load and you'll beat someone that ate protein and carbs vs just your carbs.
ETA: You'll have to expand the quote section to see what I made bold.
And my "events" I carb load for are marathons. I would hate to run one without properly fueling before and just eating protein. I'd fizzle out before the halfway point. Those "gu" shots endurance athletes take mid race are mostly carbs. NO PROTEIN - it would weigh you down.
And this is a "diet" that's relative to endurance competitions.
As Lemurcat12 said earlier - you're trying to argue what everyone's definition of a diet is. Everyone has their own. End Thread/6 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »diets don't work because they are calorie focused and not nutrient focused
No, some diets are nutrient focused AND calorie focused. Some are not, sure. And those that are nutrient focused (more often focused on poor pop culture ideas of healthy eating being about avoiding BAD food, even though the same people often fail to eat adequate veg or varied diets, IMO) and NOT calorie focused at all often do fail. Those that are solely calorie focused (some fad diets) may well fail too, but anyone sensible will pay attention to what satisfies them and usually ends up eating a diet on which they are not hungry (and in many cases is not bad nutritionally too, since often satisfying and nutrient dense overlap as categories, and a varied diet is better than a non varied one).5 -
What are we arguing about again?
Do diets work?
My answer - My diet works for me. I eat IIFYM and push breakfast back as late as possible. Other diets won't work for me, like keto, or vegan, or 100% clean all the time. I've tried them. They make me freak out and binge.11 -
The original question was do diets work... we have since been dragged into the weeds by someone who wants to equate fitness with diet.3
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Irishman1970 wrote: »
well according to you I can eat Oreos and Big macs all day and be just fine so why monitor the macros?Irishman1970 wrote: »Alright people - you fill yourselves with Cheeseburgers and i will fill my self with chicken breast and salad and we will see which one makes it to the top of the mountain first - my god its not rocket science
You honestly think that this is what posters are saying....honestly?
I would really like an answer to this question, because quite obviously that is not what people have said.Oh...I don't know if I'd advocate chicken breast and salad pre-endurance event.....where's the carbs? I usually go for some pasta of some sort before endurance events.
I'd also agree that this is NOT what I'd consider a great pre endurance meal. Add some potatoes or sweet potatoes or pasta, sure!
Also curious what's in this 100 g of sugar burger. Never seen such a thing. Seems inconsistent with the normal ingredients in a burger, but I guess Irishman1970 may have some interesting tastes, dunno.4 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
well according to you I can eat Oreos and Big macs all day and be just fine so why monitor the macros?Irishman1970 wrote: »Alright people - you fill yourselves with Cheeseburgers and i will fill my self with chicken breast and salad and we will see which one makes it to the top of the mountain first - my god its not rocket science
You honestly think that this is what posters are saying....honestly?
I would really like an answer to this question, because quite obviously that is not what people have said.Oh...I don't know if I'd advocate chicken breast and salad pre-endurance event.....where's the carbs? I usually go for some pasta of some sort before endurance events.
I'd also agree that this is NOT what I'd consider a great pre endurance meal. Add some potatoes or sweet potatoes or pasta, sure!
Also curious what's in this 100 g of sugar burger. Never seen such a thing. Seems inconsistent with the normal ingredients in a burger, but I guess Irishman1970 may have some interesting tastes, dunno.
Yes, but you know how these strawmen go - either you eat some arbitrary definition of 'healthy' or you eat crap... there is no in-between. What's been added here is that not only do you eat crap but unless you follow the arbitrary healthy way, you also cannot be 'fit' - something we are still waiting for Irish to define for us as well.5 -
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Irishman1970 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
well according to you I can eat Oreos and Big macs all day and be just fine so why monitor the macros?Irishman1970 wrote: »Alright people - you fill yourselves with Cheeseburgers and i will fill my self with chicken breast and salad and we will see which one makes it to the top of the mountain first - my god its not rocket science
You honestly think that this is what posters are saying....honestly?
I would really like an answer to this question, because quite obviously that is not what people have said.Oh...I don't know if I'd advocate chicken breast and salad pre-endurance event.....where's the carbs? I usually go for some pasta of some sort before endurance events.
I'd also agree that this is NOT what I'd consider a great pre endurance meal. Add some potatoes or sweet potatoes or pasta, sure!
Also curious what's in this 100 g of sugar burger. Never seen such a thing. Seems inconsistent with the normal ingredients in a burger, but I guess Irishman1970 may have some interesting tastes, dunno.
I stand corrected 50 carbs (most from bun and sauces(sugar) )
Calories (%DV based on daily intake of 2,000 kcal) 1,060 kcal 53%
Calories from Fat 660 kcal 366.7%
Kilojoules 4,435 kj
Pts (by CL, not official Weight Watchers POINTS©; italics if no fiber) 27
Total Fat (DRI 65 g) 73 g 112.3%
Saturated Fat (DRI 20 g) 29 g 145%
Protein (DRI 50 g) 46 g 92%
now compare those numbers a healthier alternative - such as chicken breast with lemon and bell peppers
Same amount of protein 200 Calories
Zero Saturated Fat
Peppers - 70 calories
No simple sugars
I can eat FIVE of these servings for 1 burgers and have much better nutrition
Okay, but welcome to the real world where people are eating burgers along with other foods. Nobody is arguing for an all-burger diet.
Why would I *want* five servings of chicken, lemon, and bell pepper? One serving would be fine, but five is ridiculous. If I tried to live on that I'd be bored and probably craving some fat and additional fiber (the bell pepper has some, but I'm assuming not as much as I'd want to get). Or are you arguing for a diet where chicken, lemon, and bell peppers is just one of the many things one eats?
Well, welcome to the type of diet that everyone else is talking about.14 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
well according to you I can eat Oreos and Big macs all day and be just fine so why monitor the macros?Irishman1970 wrote: »Alright people - you fill yourselves with Cheeseburgers and i will fill my self with chicken breast and salad and we will see which one makes it to the top of the mountain first - my god its not rocket science
You honestly think that this is what posters are saying....honestly?
I would really like an answer to this question, because quite obviously that is not what people have said.Oh...I don't know if I'd advocate chicken breast and salad pre-endurance event.....where's the carbs? I usually go for some pasta of some sort before endurance events.
I'd also agree that this is NOT what I'd consider a great pre endurance meal. Add some potatoes or sweet potatoes or pasta, sure!
Also curious what's in this 100 g of sugar burger. Never seen such a thing. Seems inconsistent with the normal ingredients in a burger, but I guess Irishman1970 may have some interesting tastes, dunno.
I stand corrected 50 carbs (most from bun and sauces(sugar) )
Calories (%DV based on daily intake of 2,000 kcal) 1,060 kcal 53%
Calories from Fat 660 kcal 366.7%
Kilojoules 4,435 kj
Pts (by CL, not official Weight Watchers POINTS©; italics if no fiber) 27
Total Fat (DRI 65 g) 73 g 112.3%
Saturated Fat (DRI 20 g) 29 g 145%
Protein (DRI 50 g) 46 g 92%
now compare those numbers a healthier alternative - such as chicken breast with lemon and bell peppers
Same amount of protein 200 Calories
Zero Saturated Fat
Peppers - 70 calories
No simple sugars
I can eat FIVE of these servings for 1 burgers and have much better nutrition
Okay, but welcome to the real world where people are eating burgers along with other foods. Nobody is arguing for an all-burger diet.
Why would I *want* five servings of chicken, lemon, and bell pepper? One serving would be fine, but five is ridiculous. If I tried to live on that I'd be bored and probably craving some fat and additional fiber (the bell pepper has some, but I'm assuming not as much as I'd want to get). Or are you arguing for a diet where chicken, lemon, and bell peppers is just one of the many things one eats?
Well, welcome to the type of diet that everyone else is talking about.
Yessss.. I would not want to eat 5 servings of chicken ... sometimes I do not even want one serving of chicken.
I like the flavor of the fat in my burger and that fat will give me energy to lift later.7 -
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I have the same weight loss and muscle gain that anyone eating a "nutrient dense" diet would while enjoying all cuts of beef.5
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Irishman1970 wrote: »
that's the point - you don't need 5 servings to get the same nutrition - people will throw burgers into their DIET and then trying to understand why they are not making the same losses or gains as the person eating more nutrient dense food - Chicken - Fish - lean cuts of beef - less sugar more vegetables
like I said I will crash and burn once in a while and indulge but its NOT part of my plan for fitness - its a deviation - and outlier
The losses and gains are created by the amount of calories that one consumes relative to how much energy one is using. Yeah, some calorie-dense foods like burgers can make it more difficult to meet a specific calorie goal (assuming one is trying to reduce calories), but this can be adjusted for by planning other meals around the higher calorie meal or choosing a lower calorie option (not every burger has to have 1,000+ calories). There are lots of successful people here who are meeting their health, weight, and fitness goals and still having foods like burgers (or pizza or pasta or whatever food you want to believe is so inherently harmful).
Choosing to have a burger (or a cookie or a slice of pizza or a glass of wine) isn't "crashing and burning," it's just life. And in the context of a diet that is meeting your nutritional needs (which is what everyone here is recommending), there's nothing harmful about it.
If someone is a volume eater and wants to have larger servings of lower calorie food, that's perfectly understandable. But not everyone is like that. Some people like smaller servings of more calorie-dense food (or, like many, they mix different types of food).
I legitimately don't understand why someone would care about the strategies that people use to meet the goals of meeting nutritional needs/calorie goals, having satiating meals, and enjoying their lives.
Your strategy may not be my strategy. Why is that a problem?13 -
DJ_Skywalker wrote: »I have the same weight loss and muscle gain that anyone eating a "nutrient dense" diet would while enjoying all cuts of beef.
It's almost like . . . hear me out here . . . beef has nutrients or something.27 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
that's the point - you don't need 5 servings to get the same nutrition - people will throw burgers into their DIET and then trying to understand why they are not making the same losses or gains as the person eating more nutrient dense food - Chicken - Fish - lean cuts of beef - less sugar more vegetables
like I said I will crash and burn once in a while and indulge but its NOT part of my plan for fitness - its a deviation - and outlier
The losses and gains are created by the amount of calories that one consumes relative to how much energy one is using. Yeah, some calorie-dense foods like burgers can make it more difficult to meet a specific calorie goal (assuming one is trying to reduce calories), but this can be adjusted for by planning other meals around the higher calorie meal or choosing a lower calorie option (not every burger has to have 1,000+ calories). There are lots of successful people here who are meeting their health, weight, and fitness goals and still having foods like burgers (or pizza or pasta or whatever food you want to believe is so inherently harmful).
Choosing to have a burger (or a cookie or a slice of pizza or a glass of wine) isn't "crashing and burning," it's just life. And in the context of a diet that is meeting your nutritional needs (which is what everyone here is recommending), there's nothing harmful about it.
If someone is a volume eater and wants to have larger servings of lower calorie food, that's perfectly understandable. But not everyone is like that. Some people like smaller servings of more calorie-dense food (or, like many, they mix different types of food).
I legitimately don't understand why someone would care about the strategies that people use to meet the goals of meeting nutritional needs/calorie goals, having satiating meals, and enjoying their lives.
Your strategy may not be my strategy. Why is that a problem?
Yes. And mental health is important, too. Chocolate makes me happy. Why wouldn't I have some within my calorie limit?13 -
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Irishman1970 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
well according to you I can eat Oreos and Big macs all day and be just fine so why monitor the macros?Irishman1970 wrote: »Alright people - you fill yourselves with Cheeseburgers and i will fill my self with chicken breast and salad and we will see which one makes it to the top of the mountain first - my god its not rocket science
You honestly think that this is what posters are saying....honestly?
I would really like an answer to this question, because quite obviously that is not what people have said.Oh...I don't know if I'd advocate chicken breast and salad pre-endurance event.....where's the carbs? I usually go for some pasta of some sort before endurance events.
I'd also agree that this is NOT what I'd consider a great pre endurance meal. Add some potatoes or sweet potatoes or pasta, sure!
Also curious what's in this 100 g of sugar burger. Never seen such a thing. Seems inconsistent with the normal ingredients in a burger, but I guess Irishman1970 may have some interesting tastes, dunno.
I stand corrected 50 carbs (most from bun and sauces(sugar) )
Calories (%DV based on daily intake of 2,000 kcal) 1,060 kcal 53%
Calories from Fat 660 kcal 366.7%
Kilojoules 4,435 kj
Pts (by CL, not official Weight Watchers POINTS©; italics if no fiber) 27
Total Fat (DRI 65 g) 73 g 112.3%
Saturated Fat (DRI 20 g) 29 g 145%
Protein (DRI 50 g) 46 g 92%
now compare those numbers a healthier alternative - such as chicken breast with lemon and bell peppers
Same amount of protein 200 Calories
Zero Saturated Fat
Peppers - 70 calories
No simple sugars
I can eat FIVE of these servings for 1 burgers and have much better nutrition
I'm not eating meat right now, but here are two meals I had when losing weight (maintenance now).
(1) Chicken breast (I don't really love skinless, boneless chicken breast, so I think it's weird you are so obsessed with it, it's certainly no ideal of non processed, but it can be okay with the right preparation) as part of a pasta sauce also involving olives, pine nuts, cauliflower and asparagus and pasta. A little olive oil.
(2) A burger with a bun, avocado on the burger, plus some onion and mustard, and brussels sprouts and some sauted spinach and cauliflower on the side.
Using 6 oz of meat for both, the chicken has about 204 cal, 4 g of fat, 38 g of protein. The beef (I used 93%) has 255 cal, 12 g of fat, 35 g protein. The sides could easily even out, depending on how much pasta, the particular bun chosen, and how much of everything else. Not exactly a big difference.
The carbs on the burger (not that carbs are bad) come from avocado and onions, and the bun. (I like mustard but not ketchup, that would be the same wherever I got the burger, although when I go out I usually get something that's going to be better/more interesting than the equivalent thing I'd make at home).
And, of course, even if the burger had 50 g of carbs (which a restaurant one might, sure, although many will not, and even the McD Quarter Pounder is more like 40 (I just checked), there's no equivalence between saying a burger has 50 g of carbs vs. 100 g of sugar. You see that, right?1 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »DJ_Skywalker wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
well according to you I can eat Oreos and Big macs all day and be just fine so why monitor the macros?Irishman1970 wrote: »Alright people - you fill yourselves with Cheeseburgers and i will fill my self with chicken breast and salad and we will see which one makes it to the top of the mountain first - my god its not rocket science
You honestly think that this is what posters are saying....honestly?
I would really like an answer to this question, because quite obviously that is not what people have said.Oh...I don't know if I'd advocate chicken breast and salad pre-endurance event.....where's the carbs? I usually go for some pasta of some sort before endurance events.
I'd also agree that this is NOT what I'd consider a great pre endurance meal. Add some potatoes or sweet potatoes or pasta, sure!
Also curious what's in this 100 g of sugar burger. Never seen such a thing. Seems inconsistent with the normal ingredients in a burger, but I guess Irishman1970 may have some interesting tastes, dunno.
I stand corrected 50 carbs (most from bun and sauces(sugar) )
Calories (%DV based on daily intake of 2,000 kcal) 1,060 kcal 53%
Calories from Fat 660 kcal 366.7%
Kilojoules 4,435 kj
Pts (by CL, not official Weight Watchers POINTS©; italics if no fiber) 27
Total Fat (DRI 65 g) 73 g 112.3%
Saturated Fat (DRI 20 g) 29 g 145%
Protein (DRI 50 g) 46 g 92%
now compare those numbers a healthier alternative - such as chicken breast with lemon and bell peppers
Same amount of protein 200 Calories
Zero Saturated Fat
Peppers - 70 calories
No simple sugars
I can eat FIVE of these servings for 1 burgers and have much better nutrition
Okay, but welcome to the real world where people are eating burgers along with other foods. Nobody is arguing for an all-burger diet.
Why would I *want* five servings of chicken, lemon, and bell pepper? One serving would be fine, but five is ridiculous. If I tried to live on that I'd be bored and probably craving some fat and additional fiber (the bell pepper has some, but I'm assuming not as much as I'd want to get). Or are you arguing for a diet where chicken, lemon, and bell peppers is just one of the many things one eats?
Well, welcome to the type of diet that everyone else is talking about.
Yessss.. I would not want to eat 5 servings of chicken ... sometimes I do not even want one serving of chicken.
I like the flavor of the fat in my burger and that fat will give me energy to lift later.
I eat that in day - do all my prepping on Sunday - chicken breast Lemon and lime with spices some grilled peppers and onion - Also some grilled tuna - some nuts and vegetables for snacking - every other Friday a "cheat day" where I give myself a meal of my choosing within reason - but for me its not about the taste of the food which is good but its about how i feel and perform that gives me the joy - I don't derive joy from food
I'm curious -- if food doesn't give you any joy, why use things like spices and cooking techniques designed to impart a specific flavor (like grilling)? Why even have "cheat days"?22 -
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Mmmmm Chocolate
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