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Do diets work?
Replies
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janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.9 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Well that's problem number 1. Who wants half the calories? Now I have to eat 2 salads. and you're probably still light on fat and protein
And what sort of criminal puts BBQ sauce on a bacon cheeseburger?
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stanmann571 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Well that's problem number 1. Who wants half the calories? Now I have to eat 2 salads. and you're probably still light on fat and protein
And what sort of criminal puts BBQ sauce on a bacon cheeseburger?
Especially if one claims their calorie goal is over 4000 calories. Your 5 servings of chicken + salads is at best 1000 calories while being over 2 pounds of food.10 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
acutely no issues - chronically - higher Cholesterol - higher blood pressure - etc....
enjoy occasionally but not daily
So in the context of a diet where I'm consuming the number of calories I need and my nutritional needs are being met, having a cheeseburger sometimes is going to give me higher cholesterol and higher blood pressure?
What is the basis for this statement?
A cheeseburger is just a collection of macronutrients and micronutrients. Can you explain how this specific collection will cause these issues but other collections won't?
Is this a macronutrient issue or is it related to some other quality in the foods?
Lasagna, for example, is a grain, meat, cheese, and tomato combination, kind of like a typical cheeseburger. Will it also cause these problems? What if I split them up at ate them at separate times -- some grains and dairy in the morning, some meat, cheese, and tomatoes in the evening. Will I still experience higher blood pressure?7 -
In the summer I grill burgers about once per week...I also eat chicken breast, cod, salmon, pork chops and a wide variety of other animal proteins...plenty of veg too. Occasionally I go to the bistro down the street from my house and get a big 1/2 pounder burger loaded...I've been doing just fine.
What's with this assumption that everyone is eating bacon cheeseburgers with onion rings all of the time?9 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast peppers - still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Why are two meats worse than one meat?
What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings?6 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
well according to you I can eat Oreos and Big macs all day and be just fine so why monitor the macros?Irishman1970 wrote: »Alright people - you fill yourselves with Cheeseburgers and i will fill my self with chicken breast and salad and we will see which one makes it to the top of the mountain first - my god its not rocket science
You honestly think that this is what posters are saying....honestly?
I would really like an answer to this question, because quite obviously that is not what people have said.Oh...I don't know if I'd advocate chicken breast and salad pre-endurance event.....where's the carbs? I usually go for some pasta of some sort before endurance events.
I'd also agree that this is NOT what I'd consider a great pre endurance meal. Add some potatoes or sweet potatoes or pasta, sure!
Also curious what's in this 100 g of sugar burger. Never seen such a thing. Seems inconsistent with the normal ingredients in a burger, but I guess Irishman1970 may have some interesting tastes, dunno.
I stand corrected 50 carbs (most from bun and sauces(sugar) )
Calories (%DV based on daily intake of 2,000 kcal) 1,060 kcal 53%
Calories from Fat 660 kcal 366.7%
Kilojoules 4,435 kj
Pts (by CL, not official Weight Watchers POINTS©; italics if no fiber) 27
Total Fat (DRI 65 g) 73 g 112.3%
Saturated Fat (DRI 20 g) 29 g 145%
Protein (DRI 50 g) 46 g 92%
now compare those numbers a healthier alternative - such as chicken breast with lemon and bell peppers
Same amount of protein 200 Calories
Zero Saturated Fat
Peppers - 70 calories
No simple sugars
I can eat FIVE of these servings for 1 burgers and have much better nutrition
Okay, but welcome to the real world where people are eating burgers along with other foods. Nobody is arguing for an all-burger diet.
Why would I *want* five servings of chicken, lemon, and bell pepper? One serving would be fine, but five is ridiculous. If I tried to live on that I'd be bored and probably craving some fat and additional fiber (the bell pepper has some, but I'm assuming not as much as I'd want to get). Or are you arguing for a diet where chicken, lemon, and bell peppers is just one of the many things one eats?
Well, welcome to the type of diet that everyone else is talking about.
that's the point - you don't need 5 servings to get the same nutrition - people will throw burgers into their DIET and then trying to understand why they are not making the same losses or gains as the person eating more nutrient dense food - Chicken - Fish - lean cuts of beef - less sugar more vegetables
like I said I will crash and burn once in a while and indulge but its NOT part of my plan for fitness - its a deviation - and outlier
Except that many (including myself) ARE getting the losses they want while still eating the burger!5 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Well that's problem number 1. Who wants half the calories? Now I have to eat 2 salads. and you're probably still light on fat and protein
And what sort of criminal puts BBQ sauce on a bacon cheeseburger?
that is one of my many meals and I need the nutrition and don't want empty calories of breading bun sugar in the sauces - LOL BBQ - Carls Jr does
What if I don't want to eat many meals each day? What if I prefer to have fewer meals with more calories?
I eat bread sometimes and I notice that it's never empty calories. When I eat bread, I'm getting carbohydrates. My body uses those for energy. It's also typically rich in B vitamins.
I'm not a big fan of BBQ sauce on non-BBQ sandwiches, but when I eat it it's typically in small portions so the sugar isn't a concern.4 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »In the summer I grill burgers about once per week...I also eat chicken breast, cod, salmon, pork chops and a wide variety of other animal proteins...plenty of veg too. Occasionally I go to the bistro down the street from my house and get a big 1/2 pounder burger loaded...I've been doing just fine.
What's with this assumption that everyone is eating bacon cheeseburgers with onion rings all of the time?
Over the last 18 months and 35 lbs of weight loss(20 of that twice) I've eaten more beef than when I was gaining the weight... I at a LOT of chicken breast while I was getting bigger.7 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
that's the point - you don't need 5 servings to get the same nutrition - people will throw burgers into their DIET and then trying to understand why they are not making the same losses or gains as the person eating more nutrient dense food - Chicken - Fish - lean cuts of beef - less sugar more vegetables
like I said I will crash and burn once in a while and indulge but its NOT part of my plan for fitness - its a deviation - and outlier
The losses and gains are created by the amount of calories that one consumes relative to how much energy one is using. Yeah, some calorie-dense foods like burgers can make it more difficult to meet a specific calorie goal (assuming one is trying to reduce calories), but this can be adjusted for by planning other meals around the higher calorie meal or choosing a lower calorie option (not every burger has to have 1,000+ calories). There are lots of successful people here who are meeting their health, weight, and fitness goals and still having foods like burgers (or pizza or pasta or whatever food you want to believe is so inherently harmful).
Choosing to have a burger (or a cookie or a slice of pizza or a glass of wine) isn't "crashing and burning," it's just life. And in the context of a diet that is meeting your nutritional needs (which is what everyone here is recommending), there's nothing harmful about it.
If someone is a volume eater and wants to have larger servings of lower calorie food, that's perfectly understandable. But not everyone is like that. Some people like smaller servings of more calorie-dense food (or, like many, they mix different types of food).
I legitimately don't understand why someone would care about the strategies that people use to meet the goals of meeting nutritional needs/calorie goals, having satiating meals, and enjoying their lives.
Your strategy may not be my strategy. Why is that a problem?
Its not a problem - the OP asked about diet I told her better to be fit ---- a diet(in the context she was using it) is something you eventually go off of and untimely most like fail - fitness is a lifestyle a diet in her context is not a lifestyle its temporary fix to get her to a short term unsustainable goal without lifestyle changes
You make a lot of assumptions...5 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast peppers - still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Why are two meats worse than one meat?
What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings?
I was combining them as there is not real nutritional benefit difference between the 2 - What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings? - nothing - I just like my onion sauteed not breaded
Breaded?? That's also a crime against humanity. Onions should be raw. especially on a bacon cheeseburger.
I'll gladly take up to 1/3 of a large onion on my Cheeseburger.7 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast peppers - still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Why are two meats worse than one meat?
What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings?
I was combining them as there is not real nutritional benefit difference between the 2 - What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings? - nothing - I just like my onion sauteed not breaded
So why call it out at all? That's what I don't understand. What is the significance of the burger having two meats?
Here's the thing about burger places: the vast majority of them will give you what you order. So if you prefer sauteed onions, guess what? You can have them! If you want raw onion (my preference), they'll serve you that! Nobody is going to force you to eat a fried onion just because it is there. The worse case scenario is that you'll pick it off and throw it away.
There is also a thing where you can make burgers at home and purchase exactly what you want and serve it in exactly the style and portion size you like. I highly recommend it, it's great fun. Since I've been doing it, I've never been served a fried onion on a burger and I never have to worry about BBQ sauce showing up either.7 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »The word "diet" in the OP was used not as a lifestyle long term change but rather as a short term goal reaching event - Hey Im going on a diet for the next 12 weeks type of thing
More assumptions...4 -
Something about mud wrestling and a pig comes to mind right now.....12
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Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
well according to you I can eat Oreos and Big macs all day and be just fine so why monitor the macros?Irishman1970 wrote: »Alright people - you fill yourselves with Cheeseburgers and i will fill my self with chicken breast and salad and we will see which one makes it to the top of the mountain first - my god its not rocket science
You honestly think that this is what posters are saying....honestly?
I would really like an answer to this question, because quite obviously that is not what people have said.Oh...I don't know if I'd advocate chicken breast and salad pre-endurance event.....where's the carbs? I usually go for some pasta of some sort before endurance events.
I'd also agree that this is NOT what I'd consider a great pre endurance meal. Add some potatoes or sweet potatoes or pasta, sure!
Also curious what's in this 100 g of sugar burger. Never seen such a thing. Seems inconsistent with the normal ingredients in a burger, but I guess Irishman1970 may have some interesting tastes, dunno.
I stand corrected 50 carbs (most from bun and sauces(sugar) )
Calories (%DV based on daily intake of 2,000 kcal) 1,060 kcal 53%
Calories from Fat 660 kcal 366.7%
Kilojoules 4,435 kj
Pts (by CL, not official Weight Watchers POINTS©; italics if no fiber) 27
Total Fat (DRI 65 g) 73 g 112.3%
Saturated Fat (DRI 20 g) 29 g 145%
Protein (DRI 50 g) 46 g 92%
now compare those numbers a healthier alternative - such as chicken breast with lemon and bell peppers
Same amount of protein 200 Calories
Zero Saturated Fat
Peppers - 70 calories
No simple sugars
I can eat FIVE of these servings for 1 burgers and have much better nutrition
Okay, but welcome to the real world where people are eating burgers along with other foods. Nobody is arguing for an all-burger diet.
Why would I *want* five servings of chicken, lemon, and bell pepper? One serving would be fine, but five is ridiculous. If I tried to live on that I'd be bored and probably craving some fat and additional fiber (the bell pepper has some, but I'm assuming not as much as I'd want to get). Or are you arguing for a diet where chicken, lemon, and bell peppers is just one of the many things one eats?
Well, welcome to the type of diet that everyone else is talking about.
that's the point - you don't need 5 servings to get the same nutrition - people will throw burgers into their DIET and then trying to understand why they are not making the same losses or gains as the person eating more nutrient dense food - Chicken - Fish - lean cuts of beef - less sugar more vegetables
like I said I will crash and burn once in a while and indulge but its NOT part of my plan for fitness - its a deviation - and outlier
Except that many (including myself) ARE getting the losses they want while still eating the burger!
I prefer not to talk about fitness in term of weight loss - 2 woman ----
#1 5'5" 115 pounds
#2 5'5" 135 pounds
which one is more fit?
How could we possibly tell from just their height and weight?10
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