Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Vegetarian vs. Vegan vs. Eating meat..to lose weight?
Replies
-
Eden_Goldie wrote: »Yaaaaaawn. Knew I didn't want to get involved and I was right!
1. Look at your teeth...humans were not designed to eat meat.
2. So you've been a veggie longer than I have been alive, that doesn't make you more educated.
3. Put a freshly picked vegetable on the side for 3 days then put a fresh dead animal on the side for 3 days...see which one seems more appealing to you then.
The post isn't about morals. End of. I won't be replying again.
LOL. Humans have incisors and canines along with premolars and molars. Do you have any idea what incisors and canines are for? Do you have any idea what kind of teeth obligate carnivores (such as cats, for example) have?
(Hint: incisors, canines, premolars and molars.)
[ETA:] Here, have a link, from a vegan biologist, no less, which explains why humans are not herbivores or frugivores: https://veganbiologist.com/2016/01/04/humans-are-not-herbivores/
As to point number 3, I enjoy a finely aged steak. Delicious.11 -
I'd recommend making sure you understand what you'll eat before making any sort of diet change. There are a variety of ways to look for recipes and dishes at local restaurants you can eat with with a vegetarian or vegan diet. I personally know several people who've gotten good results from switching to a vegan and I know that one of the biggest factors that contributed to their success is cutting out dairy from their diets.
I go "vegan" twice a year for 1.5 months each. My diet is usually dairy heavy and I abruptly and completely stop eating dairy. I have not found any difference in my weight loss when I'm not eating dairy, but I have issues hitting my protein because dairy is my main source for it (I don't have access to high protein vegan alternatives). I also have to watch very carefully not overeat because I try to eat nuts during these months for fat on days I eat "raw" (long story, Eastern Orthodox Lenten rules) and they're very easy to overeat for me - normally I'm very strict with them and don't have them often.
My experience may not represent the vegan or vegetarian experience due to the extra rules and my limited access to vegan sources of protein, but I find it easier to diet when I'm eating everything. When I'm eating strictly plant-based I'm either overeating or undereating and the rollercoaster isn't good for my diet. Dairy helps me keep a stable less stressful calorie deficit.2 -
Eden_Goldie wrote: »Yaaaaaawn. Knew I didn't want to get involved and I was right!
1. Look at your teeth...humans were not designed to eat meat.
2. So you've been a veggie longer than I have been alive, that doesn't make you more educated.
3. Put a freshly picked vegetable on the side for 3 days then put a fresh dead animal on the side for 3 days...see which one seems more appealing to you then.
The post isn't about morals. End of. I won't be replying again.
Others addressed the other points, but I really wish my strawberries could read your post and behave themselves. Without proper storage, they're off within a few hours.10 -
I have to say to lose a lot of weight quickly, a high meat, no carb diet will be most effective. I have 2 friends that are currently doing it and they are dropping the pounds fast!!! I don’t think it’s great for your body or long lasting, but it definitely works.
I recently went vegan myself and believe that to be the best diet for long term health. I have been gaining weight due to my hormones, age and recently quitting smoking. Since I’ve gone vegan I feel amazing! It’s refreshing to read food labels and to understand all the ingredients listed! I also love cooking now...lol!
I personally believe, whether you are vegan or a meat eater like yourself, you really should look at it as a lifestyle change. That’s what I’m doing and I can honestly say that I am enjoying it.
For example, now when I sit down to eat, I’m not in front of a TV, or with any distractions. I’m experiencing and appreciating my food more; the flavours, the textures. And I’m eating a lot slower, which of course takes me a little longer to finish my meals...lol!
I hope my advice helps a little.
18 -
I have to say to lose a lot of weight quickly, a high meat, no carb diet will be most effective. I have 2 friends that are currently doing it and they are dropping the pounds fast!!! I don’t think it’s great for your body or long lasting, but it definitely works.
I recently went vegan myself and believe that to be the best diet for long term health. I have been gaining weight due to my hormones, age and recently quitting smoking. Since I’ve gone vegan I feel amazing! It’s refreshing to read food labels and to understand all the ingredients listed! I also love cooking now...lol!
I personally believe, whether you are vegan or a meat eater like yourself, you really should look at it as a lifestyle change. That’s what I’m doing and I can honestly say that I am enjoying it.
For example, now when I sit down to eat, I’m not in front of a TV, or with any distractions. I’m experiencing and appreciating my food more; the flavours, the textures. And I’m eating a lot slower, which of course takes me a little longer to finish my meals...lol!
I hope my advice helps a little.
IF your advice is Dowatchalike, then bravo. Otherwise it's a tangled mess of propaganda.3 -
Rabbit1295 wrote: »I feel like the responses did answer that question, but... oh, well.
The pros and cons will be different for different people. You need to find the right way for YOU to eat - what fills you up, what tastes good to you, what gives you energy, what weighs you down, what is practical for your lifestyle, what fits with your ethics and priorities. No one can answer that for you. Sounds like bad news, but the good news is you don't have to eat food you don't like to lose weight or be healthy.
A lot of MFP veterans replied to your posts - people who have already lost their weight and are maintaining successfully. And we all have different ideals, activity levels, and lifestyles and all eat pretty different diets.
It's not really a question that I'm asking. I was only curious what people had to say. Especially when you read online and some sites say "go vegan for a healthier lifestyle!" or "why meat is destroying our bodies!" etc. I live in an area where people are vocal about what form of diet or rather lifestyle is better than the rest. (and they get very defensive as well...) I don't know. Was just looking as just trying to make conversation is all. I will always eat meat. I'm just very conscious about where my food comes from. I try to support the local farmers.
Btw..I'm probably going to sound extremely stupid for asking this but..what does MFP stand for?
Maybe it's just me, but I skimmed back over the thread, and I think everyone answered the question you literally asked, and you got responses from committed vegans, vegetarians and omnivores.
Perhaps surprisingly, they mostly agreed with each other: Food preferences or choices make no difference for weight loss, except insofar as they affect satiation, pleasure, convenience and therefore long-term sustainability. Most/all of the responders have been very successful at weight loss, so in that sense maybe it's not surprising we have some common thoughts.
Further, they all seem to feel that the same rules for good nutrition (thus health) apply to all, but with some diets making certain aspects of nutrition something one needs to pay a manageably small bit more attention to in order to achieve good balance.
If you had asked the question you say you really had, about pros and cons of various diets for health and weight loss, I'm not sure I would've even bothered to post. I'm a committed vegetarian - 43+ years, for heaven's sake - but I have no inclination to proselytize, especially not on health or weight loss grounds.
I became vegetarian out of an ethical desire to do less damage. Back in 1974, there was more famine world wide, meat production then and now consumes much more protein than it produces, and I felt like vegetarianism was a step I personally could easily take to reduce the harm my presence in the world was doing.
We in the first world, IMO, are unavoidably each little bundles of planet-wide harm. We can't, in any practical sense, "fix" that. It's not worth being constantly angst-ridden about it, either, since it's pretty unavoidable unless we stop living like a first-worlder, which would be global disaster in other ways if we all did it. But, again IMO, it's good ethics to reduce the harm we do, and it makes practical sense to pick the easier methods (which vary by individual).
I didn't much care for meat, so vegetarianism was easy for me. Other harm-reduction things would be easier for other people, maybe bicycle commuting or joining the Peace Corps or building a net zero energy house . . . I dunno, and don't care. Their problem. (I do other harm-reduction things, too, but they're not relevant here.)
Vegetarianism has cons. One has to pay a little more attention in order to get sound nutrition. It can be socially inconvenient, like handling your non-vegetarian new boss's invitation to dinner at his/her home, or negotiating a good life balance with a non-vegetarian life partner. It can make eating while traveling more difficult, especially in cultures that are more meat-centric and doubly especially those where refusing a proffered food treat can be a major affront.
So, those are the main pros and cons of vegetarianism IMO, none of which have anything to do with health or weight loss, and none of which make me think other people should become vegetarian (unless they want to).
Is that how your friends argue about the merits of their dietary choices?
Rabbit1295 wrote: »I feel like the responses did answer that question, but... oh, well.
The pros and cons will be different for different people. You need to find the right way for YOU to eat - what fills you up, what tastes good to you, what gives you energy, what weighs you down, what is practical for your lifestyle, what fits with your ethics and priorities. No one can answer that for you. Sounds like bad news, but the good news is you don't have to eat food you don't like to lose weight or be healthy.
A lot of MFP veterans replied to your posts - people who have already lost their weight and are maintaining successfully. And we all have different ideals, activity levels, and lifestyles and all eat pretty different diets.
It's not really a question that I'm asking. I was only curious what people had to say. Especially when you read online and some sites say "go vegan for a healthier lifestyle!" or "why meat is destroying our bodies!" etc. I live in an area where people are vocal about what form of diet or rather lifestyle is better than the rest. (and they get very defensive as well...) I don't know. Was just looking as just trying to make conversation is all. I will always eat meat. I'm just very conscious about where my food comes from. I try to support the local farmers.
Btw..I'm probably going to sound extremely stupid for asking this but..what does MFP stand for?
Maybe it's just me, but I skimmed back over the thread, and I think everyone answered the question you literally asked, and you got responses from committed vegans, vegetarians and omnivores.
Perhaps surprisingly, they mostly agreed with each other: Food preferences or choices make no difference for weight loss, except insofar as they affect satiation, pleasure, convenience and therefore long-term sustainability. Most/all of the responders have been very successful at weight loss, so in that sense maybe it's not surprising we have some common thoughts.
Further, they all seem to feel that the same rules for good nutrition (thus health) apply to all, but with some diets making certain aspects of nutrition something one needs to pay a manageably small bit more attention to in order to achieve good balance.
If you had asked the question you say you really had, about pros and cons of various diets for health and weight loss, I'm not sure I would've even bothered to post. I'm a committed vegetarian - 43+ years, for heaven's sake - but I have no inclination to proselytize, especially not on health or weight loss grounds.
I became vegetarian out of an ethical desire to do less damage. Back in 1974, there was more famine world wide, meat production then and now consumes much more protein than it produces, and I felt like vegetarianism was a step I personally could easily take to reduce the harm my presence in the world was doing.
We in the first world, IMO, are unavoidably each little bundles of planet-wide harm. We can't, in any practical sense, "fix" that. It's not worth being constantly angst-ridden about it, either, since it's pretty unavoidable unless we stop living like a first-worlder, which would be global disaster in other ways if we all did it. But, again IMO, it's good ethics to reduce the harm we do, and it makes practical sense to pick the easier methods (which vary by individual).
I didn't much care for meat, so vegetarianism was easy for me. Other harm-reduction things would be easier for other people, maybe bicycle commuting or joining the Peace Corps or building a net zero energy house . . . I dunno, and don't care. Their problem. (I do other harm-reduction things, too, but they're not relevant here.)
Vegetarianism has cons. One has to pay a little more attention in order to get sound nutrition. It can be socially inconvenient, like handling your non-vegetarian new boss's invitation to dinner at his/her home, or negotiating a good life balance with a non-vegetarian life partner. It can make eating while traveling more difficult, especially in cultures that are more meat-centric and doubly especially those where refusing a proffered food treat can be a major affront.
So, those are the main pros and cons of vegetarianism IMO, none of which have anything to do with health or weight loss, and none of which make me think other people should become vegetarian (unless they want to).
Is that how your friends argue about the merits of their dietary choices?
0 -
Sorry I decided I didn't really want in the debate!1
-
This content has been removed.
-
Eden_Goldie wrote: »Yaaaaaawn.
If you're falling asleep mid conversation, you might want to take another look at your diet.
To your points. 1: Canines 2: lol 3: I just finished a leg of ham I bought in January lol.. And it was delicious. It was cured in brine, wrapped in cloth soaked with vinegar and I put it in this cool thing we have called a refrigerator.
To the OP, I know it's been answered many times and you didn't really get the answers you'd hoped for. But it really does depend on what you like to eat. What works for me I have actively discouraged others from trying.
7 -
Hi! I would suggest monitoring your calories. You said that you love meat and fish, why avoid it ? There are plenty of health benefits to incorporating moderate portions into your meals. From personal experience (ethics aside), I've had the best success on a diet that includes everything and monitoring my calories. Eliminating food groups w/o ethical or physical health reasons, creates a bounce back effect eventually in most people or an obsession with what you are "missing" out on.4
-
Eden_Goldie wrote: »Yaaaaaawn. Knew I didn't want to get involved and I was right!
1. Look at your teeth...humans were not designed to eat meat.
So you’ve not studied any of the life sciences, then. Human teeth are classic omnivores’ teeth, albeit becoming reduced over time by our tendency to do unnatural things like cooking and cutting things up. A palaeobiologist looking at human teeth would never make the mistake of taking us for a herbivore.4. Put a freshly picked vegetable on the side for 3 days then put a fresh dead animal on the side for 3 days...see which one seems more appealing to you then.
*throws away the nasty wrinkled spinach*The post isn't about morals. End of. I won't be replying again.
So basically, even you know that your arguments don’t stand up to the most cursory scrutiny; and yet you still somehow expect them to convince others? Evidence-based decisions really aren’t your jam, are they?10 -
Eden_Goldie wrote: »Yaaaaaawn. Knew I didn't want to get involved and I was right!
1. Look at your teeth...humans were not designed to eat meat.
2. So you've been a veggie longer than I have been alive, that doesn't make you more educated.
3. Put a freshly picked vegetable on the side for 3 days then put a fresh dead animal on the side for 3 days...see which one seems more appealing to you then.
The post isn't about morals. End of. I won't be replying again.
FYI it was usual in pre-industrial societies to hang meat in a cool place for a couple of weeks before eating it. A freshly dead large animal is pretty tough.
Humans are a little bit odd, compared to most other animals, because we get food poisoning very easily - there's been some research comparing our genome to that of chimps, who are genetically similar but don't have the same issues, and it seems one of the mutations we have which directly affects our mental capacity also affects how we handle infections. We're just not very good at it, compared to some other animals. The reasons why are technical, speculative, and I don't remember the details. But humans get food poisoning from vegetables as well as meat - read some pre-Victorian cookbooks and they are full of talk about how "unwholesome" fresh fruit and cucumbers are, because water laden plants eaten raw tended to transmit disease. No one knew why, pre-germ theory, so people cooked fruit, and put veggies in brine or vinegar. Even today, you're as likely to die from a salmonella outbreak from bagged salad harvested in a field where animals relieve themselves, or improperly roasted almonds, as from e.coli laden hamburger.7 -
I think it's disgusting and completely unethical to exploit children as propaganda pieces. For ANY cause.OliverRaningerVegan wrote: »<image deleted>
For the animals10 -
Eden_Goldie wrote: »3. Put a freshly picked vegetable on the side for 3 days then put a fresh dead animal on the side for 3 days...see which one seems more appealing to you then.
I really have no idea what point you are making here. Are you saying that you shouldn't love meat because meat rots? I mean if my wife died and got left out in the sun for 3 days and I found her I think she'd be pretty unappealing at that point....not sure that is an argument for why I shouldn't love my wife though.
9 -
Going vegan or vegetarian for ethical reasons I can respect provided they aren't elitist jerks about it. Going vegan or vegetarian for weight loss is pretty silly though....all it does is add additional restrictions that are irrelevant to weight loss.11
-
http://www.ilovevegan.com/resources/benefits-of-a-vegan-lifestyle/
for me not a lifestyle- since 9 years a ethical reason and good for animals and our earth.11 -
I have tried Vegan, and im currently doing vegetarian, ill say it all comes down to what you want out of your meals and what you want entering your body. Ill personally probably have a more 70% vegetarian diet with meat on the side in the future.
I do think you gain some nice health benefits by going vegan/veggie if you do it the right way8 -
I suggest you eat organic Whole Foods in their natural state, this should be your lifestyle vs a diet.
I have eaten vegan most of my adult life and have never had a weight issue. I seldom feel ill or catch a cold, maybe once every few years. I am very active w exercise and a I move all day in my job.22 -
I do the Mediterranean / Pescatarian thing, not because I think its healthier but because I have mal absorption issue which makes me limit the amount of milk fat, animal fat and beer that I can consume. That said, there is definitely something to eating clean that seems helpful to the human spirit, you feel lighter, healthier, more energetic and for me more regular. While it makes no difference for weight management, I do think it can help with lowering BF% and your mind, assuming you are controlling calories. It is a long tough process to change your body comp and there's lots of theories, many of which are pseudoscience and nonsense. That said , I do think there is known benefit to eating clean, but you can eat clean being Vegan, Vegetarian, Pescatarian or a meat eater.9
-
Rabbit1295 wrote: »Heyo! Hope everyone is well
Something I've been wondering about. What form of diet do you think is better to lose weight and maintain a healthy weight? I'm really curious about REAL (hopefully unbiased lol) testimonials. Do you have to switch diets and commit to it for the rest of my life or what?
I personally LOVE my meat and fish. Especially ocean caught fish and organic chicken. But let me know what you guys think.
Ha, I've done it all! Paleo to Vegetarian, and everything in between
None of it has made one bit of difference for my weight. I lost the extra weight/maintain the weight loss regardless of what food plan/fad I follow-my weight is controlled by CICO and making sure I'm hitting my calorie targets. This allows me to experiment with new foods/ways of eating and I have a lot of fun with all of it! 3 -
Rabbit1295 wrote: »I feel like the responses did answer that question, but... oh, well.
The pros and cons will be different for different people. You need to find the right way for YOU to eat - what fills you up, what tastes good to you, what gives you energy, what weighs you down, what is practical for your lifestyle, what fits with your ethics and priorities. No one can answer that for you. Sounds like bad news, but the good news is you don't have to eat food you don't like to lose weight or be healthy.
A lot of MFP veterans replied to your posts - people who have already lost their weight and are maintaining successfully. And we all have different ideals, activity levels, and lifestyles and all eat pretty different diets.
It's not really a question that I'm asking. I was only curious what people had to say. Especially when you read online and some sites say "go vegan for a healthier lifestyle!" or "why meat is destroying our bodies!" etc. I live in an area where people are vocal about what form of diet or rather lifestyle is better than the rest. (and they get very defensive as well...) I don't know. Was just looking as just trying to make conversation is all. I will always eat meat. I'm just very conscious about where my food comes from. I try to support the local farmers.
Btw..I'm probably going to sound extremely stupid for asking this but..what does MFP stand for?
I've been at this whole weight management thing for over 5 years now. In that time I've done paleo, primal, vegetarian, Nourishing Traditions, Eat to Live, DASH, IF in various forms, (JUDDD, 5:2IF, 16:8IF), the Great Potato Hack, Low Carb, Moderate Carb, Blue Zones, Pescetarian and then my personal favorite-the diet Coke and Lean Cuisine diet
Throughout all of this I've also had complete blood work panels drawn twice a year. For me it does not matter what kinds of foods I'm eating/plan I'm following-my weight and health markers are controlled by my calorie intake/being at a healthy weight.
6 -
I agree with the person who said there can be fat vegetarian and fat vegans. You can eat junk and be vegan.
After research and watching videos like “what the health” and “forks over knives” I have decided to be mostly whole plant food based which is going further than just vegan. I am doing this for my personal health reasons. Have just started and decided to combine it with tracking as well because you can still eat too much.
This is not easy and am not a fanatic about it nor would try to persuade others but would love to discuss this journey with people.11 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »Eden_Goldie wrote: »Yaaaaaawn. Knew I didn't want to get involved and I was right!
1. Look at your teeth...humans were not designed to eat meat.
2. So you've been a veggie longer than I have been alive, that doesn't make you more educated.
3. Put a freshly picked vegetable on the side for 3 days then put a fresh dead animal on the side for 3 days...see which one seems more appealing to you then.
The post isn't about morals. End of. I won't be replying again.
Others addressed the other points, but I really wish my strawberries could read your post and behave themselves. Without proper storage, they're off within a few hours.
Yes, my strawberries, which I grow myself, organically, would be completely inedible in three days. Yuck.0 -
I gained weight once I became vegetarian. I turned to carbs to replace the protein I used to eat... bad for my waistline. Lol. Counting my macros helped me realize how out of control my carbs were, and how little protein I was getting!!5
-
Vegn people here?0
-
Rabbit1295 wrote: »Heyo! Hope everyone is well
Something I've been wondering about. What form of diet do you think is better to lose weight and maintain a healthy weight? I'm really curious about REAL (hopefully unbiased lol) testimonials. Do you have to switch diets and commit to it for the rest of my life or what?
I personally LOVE my meat and fish. Especially ocean caught fish and organic chicken. But let me know what you guys think.
I think you can still lose weight whilst eating meat so it would have to be a lifestyle change which works for you. Don’t deprive yourself of any food because you can eat what you like in moderation. Fish is great, chicken is great, red meat is something I would maybe eat once a week as it’s quite high in fat .. plant based foods are always going to be healthy so getting lots of veg and good carbs like sweet potatoes and whole grains is ideal.0 -
Maybe someone said this already but is it weight loss or fat loss?
I did the keto thing and lost fat and muscle but the result in the mirror was unpleasant to me but people called me skinny hahah yeah but I was skinny fat1 -
I don't think vegan vs vegetarian vs meat eater really makes a difference for weight loss. I'm vegan, but I don't think it really offers any weight loss advantages. Meat isn't particularly calorically dense.2
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 427 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions