Really???
Replies
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Thank you for your comments. Iv read through and most are very helpful!! I’ll be sure to re read through if I get stuck!2
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estherdragonbat wrote: »staceyuden wrote: »So why do people say ‘don’t cook with oil or use butter as they are fatty’ ? Shouldn’t I be staying away from fatty foods even in my cal deflict?
Your body needs a certain amount of fat to be healthy. http://www.eufic.org/en/whats-in-food/article/facts-on-fats-dietary-fats-and-health.
Now each gram of fat you consume contains 9 calories, as opposed to 4 calories for each gram of protein or carbohydrate, so making sure that you don't go overboard on your fats, to the point where they either squeeze out your other foods or put you in a calorie surplus is important.
There are plenty of people here who have lost on high-fat, low-carb diets. This is generally because by reducing their carb intake, they make room for more fat. If you find that fat makes you feel full, that could be an option you'd want to explore. Me personally, I find that when I increase my protein and let the rest 'fall where it falls', I end up with more carbs and less fat and feel fine with it. Satiety varies person to person.
I love how one can always count on this response whenever someone asks whether it's okay to slather their food in butter.
I don't know where you live, but the SAD has no problem meeting the body's fat needs (oh, and then some, believe me), all without adding additional sources.
There are more individuals suffering from being overweight, than there are suffering from "fat deprivation."38 -
LiminalAscendance wrote: »estherdragonbat wrote: »staceyuden wrote: »So why do people say ‘don’t cook with oil or use butter as they are fatty’ ? Shouldn’t I be staying away from fatty foods even in my cal deflict?
Your body needs a certain amount of fat to be healthy. http://www.eufic.org/en/whats-in-food/article/facts-on-fats-dietary-fats-and-health.
Now each gram of fat you consume contains 9 calories, as opposed to 4 calories for each gram of protein or carbohydrate, so making sure that you don't go overboard on your fats, to the point where they either squeeze out your other foods or put you in a calorie surplus is important.
There are plenty of people here who have lost on high-fat, low-carb diets. This is generally because by reducing their carb intake, they make room for more fat. If you find that fat makes you feel full, that could be an option you'd want to explore. Me personally, I find that when I increase my protein and let the rest 'fall where it falls', I end up with more carbs and less fat and feel fine with it. Satiety varies person to person.
I love how one can always count on this response whenever someone asks whether it's okay to slather their food in butter.
I don't know where you live, but the SAD has no problem meeting the body's fat needs (oh, and then some, believe me), all without adding additional sources.
There are more individuals suffering from being overweight, than there are suffering from "fat deprivation."
I didn't see anyone in this thread asking if it was ok to slather their food in butter.28 -
LiminalAscendance wrote: »estherdragonbat wrote: »staceyuden wrote: »So why do people say ‘don’t cook with oil or use butter as they are fatty’ ? Shouldn’t I be staying away from fatty foods even in my cal deflict?
Your body needs a certain amount of fat to be healthy. http://www.eufic.org/en/whats-in-food/article/facts-on-fats-dietary-fats-and-health.
Now each gram of fat you consume contains 9 calories, as opposed to 4 calories for each gram of protein or carbohydrate, so making sure that you don't go overboard on your fats, to the point where they either squeeze out your other foods or put you in a calorie surplus is important.
There are plenty of people here who have lost on high-fat, low-carb diets. This is generally because by reducing their carb intake, they make room for more fat. If you find that fat makes you feel full, that could be an option you'd want to explore. Me personally, I find that when I increase my protein and let the rest 'fall where it falls', I end up with more carbs and less fat and feel fine with it. Satiety varies person to person.
I love how one can always count on this response whenever someone asks whether it's okay to slather their food in butter.
I don't know where you live, but the SAD has no problem meeting the body's fat needs (oh, and then some, believe me), all without adding additional sources.
There are more individuals suffering from being overweight, than there are suffering from "fat deprivation."
Nobody asked "It is okay to slather my food in butter?" The question was "Shouldn't I be staying away from fatty foods?"
And the answer is no. Assuming that one is paying attention to overall calories consumed, there is no reason to stay away from fatty foods. In fact, if someone makes it their goal to avoid foods with fat, they may swing too far and wind up not getting enough fat, the exact concern that @estherdragonbat was addressing. Given that she specifically called out "not going overboard," I'm not sure why you're reading this as encouragement to add additional sources of fat to the diet and consume too much fat overall.
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LiminalAscendance wrote: »estherdragonbat wrote: »staceyuden wrote: »So why do people say ‘don’t cook with oil or use butter as they are fatty’ ? Shouldn’t I be staying away from fatty foods even in my cal deflict?
Your body needs a certain amount of fat to be healthy. http://www.eufic.org/en/whats-in-food/article/facts-on-fats-dietary-fats-and-health.
Now each gram of fat you consume contains 9 calories, as opposed to 4 calories for each gram of protein or carbohydrate, so making sure that you don't go overboard on your fats, to the point where they either squeeze out your other foods or put you in a calorie surplus is important.
There are plenty of people here who have lost on high-fat, low-carb diets. This is generally because by reducing their carb intake, they make room for more fat. If you find that fat makes you feel full, that could be an option you'd want to explore. Me personally, I find that when I increase my protein and let the rest 'fall where it falls', I end up with more carbs and less fat and feel fine with it. Satiety varies person to person.
I love how one can always count on this response whenever someone asks whether it's okay to slather their food in butter.
I don't know where you live, but the SAD has no problem meeting the body's fat needs (oh, and then some, believe me), all without adding additional sources.
There are more individuals suffering from being overweight, than there are suffering from "fat deprivation."
The question from OP didn't say "can I slather my food in butter". The OP clearly has a lot of misconceptions about weight loss and how it works, and the explanation here about not demonizing fats, that a minimum amount of fat is important and helping explain why there may be a reason to monitor fat intake if trying to lose weight simply because they are more calorie dense than other macros - is hardly a call to adopt the SAD. Why would you even bring the SAD up? Seems the OP is from the UK...15 -
LiminalAscendance wrote: »estherdragonbat wrote: »staceyuden wrote: »So why do people say ‘don’t cook with oil or use butter as they are fatty’ ? Shouldn’t I be staying away from fatty foods even in my cal deflict?
Your body needs a certain amount of fat to be healthy. http://www.eufic.org/en/whats-in-food/article/facts-on-fats-dietary-fats-and-health.
Now each gram of fat you consume contains 9 calories, as opposed to 4 calories for each gram of protein or carbohydrate, so making sure that you don't go overboard on your fats, to the point where they either squeeze out your other foods or put you in a calorie surplus is important.
There are plenty of people here who have lost on high-fat, low-carb diets. This is generally because by reducing their carb intake, they make room for more fat. If you find that fat makes you feel full, that could be an option you'd want to explore. Me personally, I find that when I increase my protein and let the rest 'fall where it falls', I end up with more carbs and less fat and feel fine with it. Satiety varies person to person.
I love how one can always count on this response whenever someone asks whether it's okay to slather their food in butter.
I don't know where you live, but the SAD has no problem meeting the body's fat needs (oh, and then some, believe me), all without adding additional sources.
There are more individuals suffering from being overweight, than there are suffering from "fat deprivation."
Nobody asked about slathering their food in butter...can you read?
And often times, people cut fat so low that they have difficulty meeting bird like calorie targets of 1200 measly calories.15 -
Dieting requires common sense. Who would stubbornly keep eating foods that leave little room for anything else and keep them feeling hungry? Who would be happy eating nothing but one type of meal every day, day in day out? Who wouldn't want to make a change that can easily reduce calorie intake without affecting the taste of food too much? I mean there is a 120 calorie difference between using 2 or using 1 tbsps of oil to stir fry, but the taste difference would be minimal to most people and not worth the extra 120 calories (unless it is, to some people).
There is the theoretical possible (living on one McDonald's meal and a piece of cake) and there is the practically achievable (eating higher calorie foods when you have the calories for them and when they're worth it).
Some people are active enough to afford a McDonald's meal every day and have room for other satisfying foods. Some people are satisfied by McDonald's and don't need more than one meal a day to feel happy (such a monotonous diet would be nutritionally questionable, but yeah, they would still lose weight).
Some people also care about nutrition. Having a monotonous diet of one kind of meal with little nutritional variety wouldn't be the best choice for them. People who are losing weight for health are especially interested in nutrition as well, so eating nothing but McDonald's and cake would not be appealing to them because it does not help achieve their goals, even if they find it filling.
Why do you want to control your food intake? What are your goals? What are your priorities? By answering these questions you will be able to build yourself a diet that you're happy with and that can help you achieve your goals.11 -
I didn’t mean to cause a war about butter11
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staceyuden wrote: »I didn’t mean to cause a war about butter
Noone ever does
these sorts of threads often end up with some sort of strange strawman argument that has nothing to do with the original post. 19 -
tinkerbellang83 wrote: »staceyuden wrote: »I didn’t mean to cause a war about butter
Noone ever does these sorts of threads often end up with some sort of strange strawman argument that has nothing to do with the original post.
Some people thought butter was worth fighting over.
http://theplate.nationalgeographic.com/2014/08/13/the-butter-wars-when-margarine-was-pink/4 -
tinkerbellang83 wrote: »staceyuden wrote: »I didn’t mean to cause a war about butter
Noone ever does these sorts of threads often end up with some sort of strange strawman argument that has nothing to do with the original post.
Except maybe these guys...
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WinoGelato wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »staceyuden wrote: »I didn’t mean to cause a war about butter
Noone ever does these sorts of threads often end up with some sort of strange strawman argument that has nothing to do with the original post.
Except maybe these guys...
Nobody ever asks if it is okay to slather their food in Parkay and I have to imagine that is very hurtful to whoever created it.3 -
staceyuden wrote: »So why do people say ‘don’t cook with oil or use butter as they are fatty’ ? Shouldn’t I be staying away from fatty foods even in my cal deflict?
In the past people were told all kinds of things were bad and some people stick with it without understanding why.
Potatoes, bread, whole eggs, pasta, rice, butter, sugar have all been demonized at some point.
If you are reducing calories to lose weight then cutting down on oil and butter that can add a lot of calories is sensible. This is also why people often cut down on salad dressing or condiments.
If you are watching your calorie intake and tracking reasonably well you know how much calories you can afford to use for various foods.1 -
Hi @staceyuden. I'm straying into the lions den here and will no doubt be getting a lot of woos over my post Many of these knowledgeable folk have been here for awhile and understandably get tired of the same sorts of questions.
I've been in the same boat and was trying to find a starting point when what I thought was right stopped working, my tuppence worth - if it helps brilliant.
If I may take the discussion away from calories for a moment. Start by capturing absolutely everything in your diary, if you are not using the MFP app, I suggest you load it and scan everything. I have found the database is very good at every UK item I've thrown at it. The same applies to meals you prepare at home, create recipes of the meals, again every bar code I've scanned has worked, even the supermarket own branded products. Use a digital scale and weigh every item you add - I write it down and scan/capture later. It sounds a bind, but pretty quickly it becomes second nature. I'm forever reaching for my trusty Salter!
Then once you have that, you naturally will have the calories consumed, but don't stop there. MFP have a very good breakdown of carbs, protein, fat and nutrients.
You now have a good base from which to work.
Explore the reports and then look at each of the items available. You can see how you stack up against the 'RDA' for each and if one is too high, then you know which area to look at, likewise if one is low.
Now you can start to make adjustments based on fact. For me this is getting the balance right. If you fancy a McDo, put it in and you'll see what that does to your figures. You can try and experiment in your diary before you buy one and then decide.
OK, lets bring back the calories - it did seem like I was dismissing them, not at all - get the balance right and within your calorie allowance and I am pretty confident in no time at all you'll be having to go down the dress shop for something smaller
In my case, I was hell bent on the calorie deficit. I'd stay within my limit and burn a modest amount of cals walking and attacking my rowing machine, it worked for a while then stopped. I was feeling washed out, depressed and generally felt awful.
I hadn't paid attention to the nutrients and in my case found I was almost non existent in my potassium intake, fat was low and I was under in my protein. I've adjusted that and lost a bit overnight. I had been losing, but not that I could tell from the scale - I was retaining water.
Once through the maze it is so easy to look back and see the right path, whilst in it, well it's just a maze!
I wish you well and applaud what you do, my OH used to do that and know how stressful it is. You don't mention the reason for the lack of sleep, could be because you do nights, or it could be due to not being able to sleep. If the latter, possibly when you are in balance you'll find that becomes easier too.
Good luck
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stevephi01 wrote: »Hi @staceyuden. I'm straying into the lions den here and will no doubt be getting a lot of woos over my post Many of these knowledgeable folk have been here for awhile and understandably get tired of the same sorts of questions.
I've been in the same boat and was trying to find a starting point when what I thought was right stopped working, my tuppence worth - if it helps brilliant.
If I may take the discussion away from calories for a moment. Start by capturing absolutely everything in your diary, if you are not using the MFP app, I suggest you load it and scan everything. I have found the database is very good at every UK item I've thrown at it. The same applies to meals you prepare at home, create recipes of the meals, again every bar code I've scanned has worked, even the supermarket own branded products. Use a digital scale and weigh every item you add - I write it down and scan/capture later. It sounds a bind, but pretty quickly it becomes second nature. I'm forever reaching for my trusty Salter!
Then once you have that, you naturally will have the calories consumed, but don't stop there. MFP have a very good breakdown of carbs, protein, fat and nutrients.
You now have a good base from which to work.
Explore the reports and then look at each of the items available. You can see how you stack up against the 'RDA' for each and if one is too high, then you know which area to look at, likewise if one is low.
Now you can start to make adjustments based on fact. For me this is getting the balance right. If you fancy a McDo, put it in and you'll see what that does to your figures. You can try and experiment in your diary before you buy one and then decide.
OK, lets bring back the calories - it did seem like I was dismissing them, not at all - get the balance right and within your calorie allowance and I am pretty confident in no time at all you'll be having to go down the dress shop for something smaller
In my case, I was hell bent on the calorie deficit. I'd stay within my limit and burn a modest amount of cals walking and attacking my rowing machine, it worked for a while then stopped. I was feeling washed out, depressed and generally felt awful.
I hadn't paid attention to the nutrients and in my case found I was almost non existent in my potassium intake, fat was low and I was under in my protein. I've adjusted that and lost a bit overnight. I had been losing, but not that I could tell from the scale - I was retaining water.
Once through the maze it is so easy to look back and see the right path, whilst in it, well it's just a maze!
I wish you well and applaud what you do, my OH used to do that and know how stressful it is. You don't mention the reason for the lack of sleep, could be because you do nights, or it could be due to not being able to sleep. If the latter, possibly when you are in balance you'll find that becomes easier too.
Good luck
Only thing really to add to this is that in a deficit, the only macro that really matters is protein. You'll tend to meet your minimums for fat/carbs as long as you don't deliberately cut one of them out. General rule of thumb is .5-.8 grams per kilo of BW.7 -
@stevephi01 thank you so much for that comment-you have really helped! I’ll defo take on what you said, it’s just hard to get my head around!
And not being able to sleep is down to nights, my body clock isn’t good at adjusting so I think my weight gain could be down to that too!
Have a good evening and thanks once again!3 -
staceyuden wrote: »So I could eat a McDonald’s and chocolate cake in one day as long as I don’t go over 1,600 cals and I’ll still loose weight? Why does slimming world say no to chocolate and takeaways if that’s the case??
3 pages in one day on such a question indicates the intensity of passion we have for the truth. The truth is, calories matter, and the counting of them is at the root of every occasionally successful commercial program offering weight loss in exchange for green paper.
The confounding factor in all efforts to lose weight is the human. The commercial programs attempt to use the human tendencies (that is, to eat the available supply as quickly as possible) to achieve the commercial objective.
Ah, but what, exactly, is the commercial objective? It is GREEN PAPER. If Slimming World, Weight Watchers, Jenny Craig, Gold's Gym, or any of your favorite commercial source of goods and services were to succeed at leading their customers to successful weight loss, they'd be out of business and they know it.
You're a human and your business is to confound. Instead of confounding yourself, confound them. Count your calories.8 -
No woos from me, @stevephi01. The way you navigated your intake was structurally sound - you identified the problem and set a goal to fix it. Feeling washed out on a diet is not fun, nor is something anyone needs to endure if they don't have to. You looked at your diet and personalized it to make it more pleasant within your calorie limit. That's success in my book. Basically, common sense dieting.17
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@stevephi01 The only one(s) that would woo that would be those that didn't actually read the whole thing.
Or fools.8 -
So I could eat a McDonald’s and chocolate cake in one day as long as I don’t go over 1,600 cals and I’ll still loose weight? Why does slimming world say no to chocolate and takeaways if that’s the case??
I don’t do slimming world but I’m guessing because chocolate and takeaways are unhealthy...?
is it just weight loss you want or do actually want to be healthy? Maybe they’re trying to promote your health as well as weight loss...I get everything in moderation is fine...but if you just want weight loss through eating McDonald’s and cake then you’re not going to be very healthy.
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catherineroberts87 wrote: »So I could eat a McDonald’s and chocolate cake in one day as long as I don’t go over 1,600 cals and I’ll still loose weight? Why does slimming world say no to chocolate and takeaways if that’s the case??
I don’t do slimming world but I’m guessing because chocolate and takeaways are unhealthy...?
is it just weight loss you want or do actually want to be healthy? Maybe they’re trying to promote your health as well as weight loss...I get everything in moderation is fine...but if you just want weight loss through eating McDonald’s and cake then you’re not going to be very healthy.
Unhealthy how/why?
How do you know that losing weight by eating Twinkies and McDonalds will leave you unhealthy?
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catherineroberts87 wrote: »So I could eat a McDonald’s and chocolate cake in one day as long as I don’t go over 1,600 cals and I’ll still loose weight? Why does slimming world say no to chocolate and takeaways if that’s the case??
I don’t do slimming world but I’m guessing because chocolate and takeaways are unhealthy...?
is it just weight loss you want or do actually want to be healthy? Maybe they’re trying to promote your health as well as weight loss...I get everything in moderation is fine...but if you just want weight loss through eating McDonald’s and cake then you’re not going to be very healthy.
Note that OP asks about eating McDonald's and chocolate "in one day," not eating them to the exclusion of all other foods every single day. There's a big difference there.19 -
LiminalAscendance wrote: »estherdragonbat wrote: »staceyuden wrote: »So why do people say ‘don’t cook with oil or use butter as they are fatty’ ? Shouldn’t I be staying away from fatty foods even in my cal deflict?
Your body needs a certain amount of fat to be healthy. http://www.eufic.org/en/whats-in-food/article/facts-on-fats-dietary-fats-and-health.
Now each gram of fat you consume contains 9 calories, as opposed to 4 calories for each gram of protein or carbohydrate, so making sure that you don't go overboard on your fats, to the point where they either squeeze out your other foods or put you in a calorie surplus is important.
There are plenty of people here who have lost on high-fat, low-carb diets. This is generally because by reducing their carb intake, they make room for more fat. If you find that fat makes you feel full, that could be an option you'd want to explore. Me personally, I find that when I increase my protein and let the rest 'fall where it falls', I end up with more carbs and less fat and feel fine with it. Satiety varies person to person.
I love how one can always count on this response whenever someone asks whether it's okay to slather their food in butter.
I don't know where you live, but the SAD has no problem meeting the body's fat needs (oh, and then some, believe me), all without adding additional sources.
There are more individuals suffering from being overweight, than there are suffering from "fat deprivation."
I, personaly, prefer to "slather" mine in EVOO.7 -
catherineroberts87 wrote: »So I could eat a McDonald’s and chocolate cake in one day as long as I don’t go over 1,600 cals and I’ll still loose weight? Why does slimming world say no to chocolate and takeaways if that’s the case??
I don’t do slimming world but I’m guessing because chocolate and takeaways are unhealthy...?
is it just weight loss you want or do actually want to be healthy? Maybe they’re trying to promote your health as well as weight loss...I get everything in moderation is fine...but if you just want weight loss through eating McDonald’s and cake then you’re not going to be very healthy.
Do you presume by the question asked that the OP means eating nothing but McDonalds and chocolate cake? I interpret her question as "can I still eat McDonalds and chocolate cake (maybe together, maybe different days) on occasion and still achieve my goals". I eat McDonalds occasionally, more often Wendy's or Chik Fil A for fast food, about once a week. I eat chocolate cake for birthdays, office celebrations, so maybe once a month - but I have something sweet pretty much every day. I also managed to lose weight and keep it off doing so, and my blood work suggests that I'm pretty healthy...
Seems like you're trying to create a straw man argument suggesting that a person might be eating a diet of nothing but fast food and chocolate cake, and no one, not even the OP I don't think, is asking that.17 -
Context and dosage matter. A McDonalds Big Mac (at least, in Canada; nutrition may vary by country) contains all three macros, plus significant iron and calcium. (Source: https://www.mcdonalds.com/ca/en-ca/about-our-food/nutrition-calculator.html)
While you can definitely find more nutrient-dense sources for fat, protein, and fiber, chocolate has all these, plus various micros.
I'm curious as to why you'd think the OP "just" wants weight loss through "McDonald's and cake". There's room for both within the context of a varied diet.12 -
I didn’t mean eat McDonald’s and cake every day!!! I’m not that thick to eat that everyday if I want to loose weight! I just mean if I’m on a night shift or something am I ok to grab a takeaway if it’s under my allowance? Or have a bit of chocolate or something? I don’t understand why some people are so angry at a question or think they must put other people down over a question? A ‘question’10
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@WinoGelato thank you! Atleast you understand what I mean!!4
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I just mean if I’m on a night shift or something am I ok to grab a takeaway if it’s under my allowance? Or have a bit of chocolate or something? I don’t understand why some people are so angry at a question or think they must put other people down over a question? A ‘question’
So you can every now and then, but I would be careful because at least for me, I tend to feel more motivated to stay on track when I am eating more nutritious foods, while things like cake make me spiral into a frenzy of wanting more cake. So if it were a special occasion, sure, have a little cake, but I'd try to find an easier on-the-go option like hardboiled eggs and jerky vs. McD's. I mean, you know yourself better than anyone, but for me, those kinds of foods aren't really worth it. Not because you can't still lose weight and eat them, just because I think they make it harder to keep my head in the game.12 -
Running_and_Coffee wrote: »I just mean if I’m on a night shift or something am I ok to grab a takeaway if it’s under my allowance? Or have a bit of chocolate or something? I don’t understand why some people are so angry at a question or think they must put other people down over a question? A ‘question’
So you can every now and then, but I would be careful because at least for me, I tend to feel more motivated to stay on track when I am eating more nutritious foods, while things like cake make me spiral into a frenzy of wanting more cake. So if it were a special occasion, sure, have a little cake, but I'd try to find an easier on-the-go option like hardboiled eggs and jerky vs. McD's. I mean, you know yourself better than anyone, but for me, those kinds of foods aren't really worth it. Not because you can't still lose weight and eat them, just because I think they make it harder to keep my head in the game.
And many other people find that restricting things they really enjoy set up tendencies toward binge restrict cycles.14 -
Oh, and can I just say, as there are 10000’s of fad diets out there, and different types of advise, sometimes it can be confusing for a novices dieter like me.5
This discussion has been closed.
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