To Keto or not to Keto

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  • justrenee2000
    justrenee2000 Posts: 1 Member
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    I would like some help with my Keto Diet, I too am trying it. I have been on this 2 weeks now. I cannot say that I am completely strict with my diet, as I do cheat on the weekends. For the most part I tried staying within 1200 calories, but cut out all processed foods, pasta, potatoes, starches, and bread. I log my food, and it seems like everything has carbs!!!! In my two meals, breakfast and lunch with snacks at 10 and 3, I take in close to all my calories and have anywhere from 60-80 carbs already in!! this leaves me no room most of the time for any kind of dinner/supper. What am I doing wrong?? I'll have mozzarella stick wrapped with turkey or salami for breakfast; snack on nuts or pork skins or both around 10; Salad with chicken at lunch; nuts & cheese or pork skins around 3, and log all this food, at that time I usually already have about 1000-1100 calories in and 50-65 carbs and all this before anytype of dinner. I have tried really hard if I do eat at night to keep it at about an added 2-300 calories so I don't go for sure past 1500 calories in a day. Anyone have any help for me? It would really be appreciated as I don't feel like I am losing very much. FYI- I just started HotWorx (infrared exercising, such as cycling, rowing, core, buns, etc.)
  • Silentpadna
    Silentpadna Posts: 1,306 Member
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    All1971 wrote: »

    CICO is asserted as true by many - and there's also lots of evidence that is not the total story. There is nothing in the CICO model that accounts for why someones metabolism can speed up or slow down (well-accepted and well-documented). CICO suggests that you are playing a board game with regular forward and back movement like Monopoly. A hormonal theory of weight loss that includes insulin (and other hormones) suggests that there are other mechanisms - that weight loss is more like playing Chutes and Ladders (e.g., that you can both move forward and backward in a regular way (CICO) AND that there are also other hormonal factors- the chutes and ladders - that affect your metabolism and energy processing).

    The one thing that is clear to me is that there is no clear and universal scientific truth on this issue yet. I personally believe that both calories and hormones matter - which is more important in a given individual is probably also affected by their genetics.

    No there is not a lot of evidence to that effect, because it's a physical impossibility. The law of conservation of energy (i.e. energy balance) is universal.

    What you are talking about are things that vary primarily the CO side of the balance. When you say people's metabolism speeds up or slows down, you are talking about varying the CO. Whatever the variable it is, if it uses energy, whether in physical activity, biological processes or whatever, it is accounted for in CICO. It has to be. The issue here is not whether the energy balance works - it's how people try to use exact numbers.

    It's not CICO that doesn't account for all the processes - it's the fact that we cannot accurately measure every process that is going on. We have to depend on estimates because we don't know. We can only guess. It's the CO part that is affected in our calculations.

    But in terms of actual energy, the CICO balance is all there is. I say this to nit pick on purpose. Is there to the story? It really depends on how you use the terms. The fact of the matter is that we have no way to capture and measure the dynamic, constantly changing processes (in both magnitude and frequency) that happen in our body every day. But because we want things to be simple, we tend to focus on NEAT and TDEE estimates, pick the mean value at the top of the bell curve and assume that's true for us all the time. It's not.

    But CICO is not an assertion. It is an absolute fact. You either burn more or burn less energy than you consume. What you do not burn is stored as fat. If you burn more than you take in , then your body has no choice but to burn energy from something other than its fuel source (food), such as fat, muscle or other lean tissue. You have no say in the matter. CICO is a simple estimate when commonly used. In reality, it's really hard to have the estimates match.
  • CharlieBeansmomTracey
    CharlieBeansmomTracey Posts: 7,682 Member
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    I would like some help with my Keto Diet, I too am trying it. I have been on this 2 weeks now. I cannot say that I am completely strict with my diet, as I do cheat on the weekends. For the most part I tried staying within 1200 calories, but cut out all processed foods, pasta, potatoes, starches, and bread. I log my food, and it seems like everything has carbs!!!! In my two meals, breakfast and lunch with snacks at 10 and 3, I take in close to all my calories and have anywhere from 60-80 carbs already in!! this leaves me no room most of the time for any kind of dinner/supper. What am I doing wrong?? I'll have mozzarella stick wrapped with turkey or salami for breakfast; snack on nuts or pork skins or both around 10; Salad with chicken at lunch; nuts & cheese or pork skins around 3, and log all this food, at that time I usually already have about 1000-1100 calories in and 50-65 carbs and all this before anytype of dinner. I have tried really hard if I do eat at night to keep it at about an added 2-300 calories so I don't go for sure past 1500 calories in a day. Anyone have any help for me? It would really be appreciated as I don't feel like I am losing very much. FYI- I just started HotWorx (infrared exercising, such as cycling, rowing, core, buns, etc.)

    you are eating too many carbs for keto. keto is high fat,low carb(less than 50g net or most do less than 25g ) and moderate protein. the main veggies/fruits in keto diets are berries and leafy green vegetables. the whatever is in the salad or the dressing may be adding too many carbs. and cheats on the weekend can wipe out any deficit you have if not weighing/logging properly. but for weight loss all you need is a deficit. keto is nothing special when it comes to weight loss
  • gloqui20
    gloqui20 Posts: 2 Member
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    I did Keto for a few weeks but I had to quit. I was feeling light headed and dizzy ALL THE TIME, I barely had energy to exercise, I am already deficient in iron and I have to take supplements and Keto made me feel worse. Keto is not for me.
  • carolsoules
    carolsoules Posts: 34 Member
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    Lois_1989 wrote: »
    The fact that you used the term 'starvation mode' discredits the rest of the post. Moving on...

    I get that "starvation mode" is a layman's term and isn't -completely- accurate, but without going into textbook detail about the way glucose interacts with the brain and the endocrine system, it's a helpful way of expressing a biological reality
  • Lois_1989
    Lois_1989 Posts: 6,410 Member
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    Lois_1989 wrote: »
    The fact that you used the term 'starvation mode' discredits the rest of the post. Moving on...

    I get that "starvation mode" is a layman's term and isn't -completely- accurate, but without going into textbook detail about the way glucose interacts with the brain and the endocrine system, it's a helpful way of expressing a biological reality

    So, you're loving this sentence, I saw it on another thread. Can you link me up with where you got this from?
  • Lois_1989
    Lois_1989 Posts: 6,410 Member
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    Or a text book? 'Basic physiology' is very vague, it could be basic to someone who has a degree in it. Basic to me is high school, and it sounds a bit more involved than high school.
  • bisonpitcher
    bisonpitcher Posts: 519 Member
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    nvmomketo wrote: »
    VERY VERY simple science here people. Some of you posting here just don't understand it and or are just brainwashed into believing you HAVE to be in a caloric deficit to lose FAT. NO YOU DON'T. Try to read and understand what a TRULY KETO ADAPTED METABOLISM IS!!! YOU burn fat all day long even if you are NOT in a deficit!!!!

    AND VERY VERY simple science how guys like me are gaining lean muscle mass WHILE losing FAT... Your muscles grow by being in sense "injured" while working out. Injured isn't a great term but in fact the muscles get tons of tiny tears in them and they require protein "amino acids" to repair those areas. As the muscles repair they grow and gain size and weight. All you need to do is find the right number of grams of protein to eat per lb of your body weight for your body to keep those muscles fed as you continue to lose body fat. Usually between .4 to 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight. This Is not a new thing lol. Friends of mine have been doing this for quite awhile now. Just because you are losing FAT DOESN'T mean the muscles won't grow if you feed them and work them out. Your body will NOT go CATOTONIC IF IT IS IN A FULL KETO ADAPTED STATE AND YOU FEED YOURSELF ENOUGH PROTEIN!!!

    No, I'm afraid you do have to be in a caloric deficit to lose weight. Your calories consumed (in)must be less than your calories out CI<CO. I'm a huge fan of keto, and have been doing it for a few years, but you still need to eat at a caloric deficit to lose weight.

    That being said, some keto'ers, especially those with insulin resistance, find that a ketogenic diet allows them to eat more than they normally could while losing weight. For example, I had a deficit set to lose 1-1.5 lbs a week but lost 2-3 lbs on most weeks. I firmly believe that keto can affect some people's CO. The appetite suppressing benefits can also affect CI.

    People can gain weight while ketogenic... it just doesn't happen often. ;)

    No I'm afraid you are very very wrong and there are tons of us doing keto combined with intermittent fasting and losing fat very rapidly with no caloric deficit. You and others can doubt it all you want and type it out that you can't but that doesn't change the fact that lots of us are doing it. And note I said "combined with keto" Only takes a few minutes for you yourself to do a search of peoples stories on line, pictures, videos etc of folks doing exactly that. I am living proof of it and have a nutritionist and doctor watching my weight loss, documenting it, and taking pictures of all the progress. As I have mentioned earlier I also do body composition imaging scans (Dexa) to track my fat loss and lean muscle mass gain. Also another rampant myth that people like to put out there is that you will lose muscle mass while losing fat and that you can't gain lean muscle mass while losing fat. A very very untrue statement as well. I suggest to you and others instead of believing reports and studies you read then trying to tell other people it's the gospel and only way that you yourself actually try to combine intermittent fasting with keto and just watch what happens. And also, once again I will repeat that I do a 23 to 23.5 hr fast between my meals. And my calories in vs calories out are almost always neutral even including exercise. As mentioned earlier every gram I eat is documented and weighed. Every calorie I burn is documented and measured. Also as I have previously mentioned not everyone is the same when it comes to intermittent fasting and a fully keto adapted metabolism. A lot of people doing keto find that they are lower in ketones in their waking hours and can fall out of ketosis at times even when getting the carbs very very low. Which in turns doesn't allow their metabolism to become truly Keto Adapted. They are in fact in ketosis some of the day where they are burning fat but one of the largest factors noted by my doctor and my nutritionist is that with the combination of intermittent fasting and keto eating is that I have been in ketosis from 1.3 to 2.4 ish every single day 24 hrs a day. No readings ever dipping under the Keto Adapted numbers. This is relatively new info to some out there but if you search around you will find a lot of us combining a high ratio intermittent fasting with keto are in 24 hr full Keto Adaptation. This may be some of the science going on with the very rapid fat loss while not having to have a caloric deficit. We all lose fat at different rates. My doctor is on record on my health file writing that he, in his medical career has not seen fat loss (not weight loss remember...this is all body comp scanned scientific results cause I am also gaining lean muscle mass) this fast other than by patients whom have had surgery. So not only the doctor is closely following the progress but a nutritionist and the body comp imaging tech is closely documenting it. Further to note is that when I started this 78 days ago I was pre diabetic with blood sugar from 110 to 120 regularly after a fast. I am currently always in my low to mid 80's now, no longer pre diabetic, and my blood pressure has gone from averages or around 145/90 to 118/72 currently. Proof is in the pudding as we say right? It is also closely documented that I was at times in caloric surplus over a two week test period and still dropped 3 lbs per week each of those weeks and that was after my water weight loss period had passed. So post all the studies you want and research you want. Live it, learn it, and see it for yourself if you truly want to know what's possible and is fact. There are tons of us doing this out there. Search and see for yourself. Furthermore if you read all I have posted you will see that I have stated there is a difference between just keto and keto combined with intermittent fasting. And all kinds of variables come into play with that.

    So how many calories do you consume in those 40 minutes you eat in a day?? I have to eat around 2600-3000 depending on my activity level that day in order to maintain. Any thing below that and I am in a caloric deficit. Are you eating over 3000 calories in that one meal?