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Somebody lectured me about Splenda today
Replies
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Wrong againEveryone has an opinion, there's science to back up both sides of the fake sugar debate. Why do you people have to be so *kitten* to someone who disagrees with you?
I don't know who flagged this or why, but the flag is inappropriate.
There is no actual science backing up the premise that "fake sugar" is harmful. If you read the first several posts in the "Aspartame isn't scary" thread you will find numerous legitimate peer-reviewed studies that show it is not. There are no legitimate peer-reviewed studies that show it is in people who have no adverse reactions to the components.
I'd rather this didn't turn into an "evil Splenda" thread, since the OP centers on inappropriate comments from strangers, and the circumstance of the specific comment is incidental to the conversation.
edited for clarity and grammar :embarrassed:
Stop acting like there's no science to back up the negative reviews of fake sugar. Science doesn't even know everything about it yet, but it's so great that you all apparently do.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3198517/
the conclusion from the paper you cite:
CONCLUSIONS
Sugar substitutes in various food and beverages are very popular in most of the countries. Extensive scientific research has demonstrated the safety of the six low-calorie sweeteners currently approved for use in foods in the U.S. and Europe (stevia, acesulfame-K, aspartame, neotame, saccharin and sucralose) each with an acceptable daily intake. A number of studies have been carried out to confirm the safety of artificial sweeteners. A number of studies have also shown the adverse effects of the same. But most of the studies have limitations such as effects shown only in animals not in human, small sample size, high doses, statistically non-significant or borderline significant, etc. The sugar substitutes are thoroughly investigated for safety with hundreds of scientific studies and then approved by different regulatory authorities like the U.S. FDA, JECFA and FSANZ. Some agents are approved with warning labels too. So further exploration is required with well-designed large-scale studies in the general population. On the anecdotal evidence, it has been concluded that based on analysis of the database of case histories, there are a number of symptoms that are recurrently reported by individuals who believe that they are caused by sugar substitute ingestion. The information gathered in this analysis can be useful in guiding the design and format of any investigative study that may be undertaken to determine individual sensitivity to sugar substitutes.
I am not saying fake sugar causes cancer or kills you. I am saying, and the article agrees, that fake sure has been linked to weight gain and confuses your body's insulin response.
For people who are diabetic or trying to lose weight (most people on MFP), it gives them this idea that they can eat all that they want because it has no calories and is "healthy". I am not diabetic but I am hypoglycemic. When I switched from drinking regular soda to diet, my blood sugars would crash horribly, even worse than when I drank regular. I wasn't losing weight as I was before, and that was with no other dietrary changes.
"Protein can cause a spike in Insulin, but not aspartame[6]. Furthermore, consuming aspartame with or without carbohydrates resulted in aspartame not contributing to an insulin spike[7].
Diabetics were found to have no spike in insulin after ingesting nonnutritive sweeteners[8]. Swishing a solution in the mouth had no effect[9]
About the only study suggesting sweeteners could spike insulin was found in vitro rat pancreatic cells when coupled with glucose and done with direction transfusion (instead of ingested orally)[10]
the data from extensive in vivo studies in human subjects show that low-energy sweeteners do not have any of the adverse effects predicted by in vitro, in situ or knockout studies in animals. [11]"
https://examine.com/nutrition/do-artificial-sweeteners-spike-insulin/
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nickssweetheart wrote: »ruqayyahsmum wrote: »My friend offerred a "homeless" guy complete with a begging sign a sandwich, crisps and a drink, he told her to *kitten* off..... 8 hours later on her way home from work she saw the same guy getting into a bow parked down a side street
Frankly, this sounds like the sort of thing that gets posted to Facebook as always having happened to someone's "friend" and is really just spewing misinformation about people that are already marginalized in our society so that the rest of us can feel better about social inequality.
There are several professional beggers in Toronto who when exposed at the time several years ago owned homes,cars and considerable savings. It was a big story for quite some time tgat identified the specific people.. they were pretty pissed and some moved to different cities so they could keep begging.
Now obviously this isnt a reality for all. But it does exist.13 -
lucerorojo wrote: »ruqayyahsmum wrote: »nickssweetheart wrote: »ruqayyahsmum wrote: »My friend offerred a "homeless" guy complete with a begging sign a sandwich, crisps and a drink, he told her to *kitten* off..... 8 hours later on her way home from work she saw the same guy getting into a bow parked down a side street
Frankly, this sounds like the sort of thing that gets posted to Facebook as always having happened to someone's "friend" and is really just spewing misinformation about people that are already marginalized in our society so that the rest of us can feel better about social inequality.
My friends 65 and i trust what she says even if she fits the bible into every conversation she has
I have also seen "homeless" people getting picked up in nice cars at the end of the day. Now that doesn't mean anything. It might not be their car, a friend could just be helping them. I don't judge these people but I rarely give anymore. Sometimes if I'm coming home with groceries I'll give a banana and usually I have several people see it and then ask for one. There is at least one person sitting on every corner with a sign or begging. (I'm in the USA, BTW).
I'm in NY. I see the homeless on the subway, the street, and in the strip mall where this incident happened. Walking to the grocery store I get approached, and again after leaving. Sometimes they'll hold doors and expect change. I'll buy food or offer a snack or leftovers. But I won't support an addiction by giving money.9 -
Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »nickssweetheart wrote: »ruqayyahsmum wrote: »My friend offerred a "homeless" guy complete with a begging sign a sandwich, crisps and a drink, he told her to *kitten* off..... 8 hours later on her way home from work she saw the same guy getting into a bow parked down a side street
Frankly, this sounds like the sort of thing that gets posted to Facebook as always having happened to someone's "friend" and is really just spewing misinformation about people that are already marginalized in our society so that the rest of us can feel better about social inequality.
There are several professional beggers in Toronto who when exposed at the time several years ago owned homes,cars and considerable savings. It was a big story for quite some time tgat identified the specific people.. they were pretty pissed and some moved to different cities so they could keep begging.
Now obviously this isnt a reality for all. But it does exist.
The reality is that feeding a drug/alcohol addiction is expensive, and that if you are drug/disease free, and have a low personal ethic/moral compass, impersonating and addict can be financially rewarding.
Certainly the percentage of beggars/panhandlers that are professionals vs addicts is impossible to determine, but it's a very real segment of that population.6 -
stanmann571 wrote: »Everyone has an opinion, there's science to back up both sides of the fake sugar debate. Why do you people have to be so *kitten* to someone who disagrees with you?
I don't know who flagged this or why, but the flag is inappropriate.
There is no actual science backing up the premise that "fake sugar" is harmful. If you read the first several posts in the "Aspartame isn't scary" thread you will find numerous legitimate peer-reviewed studies that show it is not. There are no legitimate peer-reviewed studies that show it is in people who have no adverse reactions to the components.
I'd rather this didn't turn into an "evil Splenda" thread, since the OP centers on inappropriate comments from strangers, and the circumstance of the specific comment is incidental to the conversation.
edited for clarity and grammar :embarrassed:
Stop acting like there's no science to back up the negative reviews of fake sugar. Science doesn't even know everything about it yet, but it's so great that you all apparently do.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3198517/
the conclusion from the paper you cite:
CONCLUSIONS
Sugar substitutes in various food and beverages are very popular in most of the countries. Extensive scientific research has demonstrated the safety of the six low-calorie sweeteners currently approved for use in foods in the U.S. and Europe (stevia, acesulfame-K, aspartame, neotame, saccharin and sucralose) each with an acceptable daily intake. A number of studies have been carried out to confirm the safety of artificial sweeteners. A number of studies have also shown the adverse effects of the same. But most of the studies have limitations such as effects shown only in animals not in human, small sample size, high doses, statistically non-significant or borderline significant, etc. The sugar substitutes are thoroughly investigated for safety with hundreds of scientific studies and then approved by different regulatory authorities like the U.S. FDA, JECFA and FSANZ. Some agents are approved with warning labels too. So further exploration is required with well-designed large-scale studies in the general population. On the anecdotal evidence, it has been concluded that based on analysis of the database of case histories, there are a number of symptoms that are recurrently reported by individuals who believe that they are caused by sugar substitute ingestion. The information gathered in this analysis can be useful in guiding the design and format of any investigative study that may be undertaken to determine individual sensitivity to sugar substitutes.
I am not saying fake sugar causes cancer or kills you. I am saying, and the article agrees, that fake sure has been linked to weight gain and confuses your body's insulin response.
For people who are diabetic or trying to lose weight (most people on MFP), it gives them this idea that they can eat all that they want because it has no calories and is "healthy". I am not diabetic but I am hypoglycemic. When I switched from drinking regular soda to diet, my blood sugars would crash horribly, even worse than when I drank regular. I wasn't losing weight as I was before, and that was with no other dietrary changes.
So when you reduced intake of dietary sugar, your blood sugar crashed. Why is this surprising?
It's not surprising to have issues when changing your diet. But my blood sugar drops were few and far between after the change. I started a low carb diet a couple months ago and haven't had any drops in blood sugar even though I'm still techically hypoglycemic. By your response, that shouldn't happen but it did.
Not really, one of the reasons that low carb is recommended for diabetics is that it evens out blood sugar spikes thru the day. The same would be true in your case. Also, by training the body to not burn glucose (or less glucose) for energy, you wouldn't feel that 'crash' or need to replenish energy stores.4 -
nickssweetheart wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »I offered a homeless guy an apple and some yogurt one morning. He didn't want either. I figured he couldn't be that hungry. I wasn't going to give him change.
I will pretty much always offer food, and I have never been turned down. One man nearly cried when I gave him a loaf of bread and a jar of peanut butter. I hope that experience hasn't discouraged you from offering in the future.
Absolutely not. I've taken people in and bought a meal for them, at times. If I have something on hand, then I will give that. I had a lovely chat with a gentlemen who lives near the train station about the shelters downtown. He prefers to stay away due to being robbed in the past. I enjoy hearing the stories.2 -
I drink a lot of diet coke...have since it was introduced in early 1980s. Work in health industry, travel all over US, so exposed to many schools of thoughts, on the evil of diet coke/artificial sweeteners. Most often, with some sort of indications about it killing my brain cells. My standard reply, "you might be right, but if I had all my brain cells, I wouldn't be happily married". I have also used, "yes but, as awesome as I am now, more of me would be insufferable".
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ruqayyahsmum wrote: »
I'd be shocked except I don't know what a bow is...[/quote]
Eh its crappy auto correct for bmw
I forgot to proof read before hitting reply
[/quote]
Before there was such a thing as an internet, there were things called "newspapers". Dallas had 2 daily papers. One of them, and I almost am sure it was the now extinct Times Herald, did an investigation of local street beggars. What they reported was similar to what you discovered. The key to the business model is to dress the part, act the part, conceal your means of transportation, and never report the income.
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To those people I say, "Cool story." Then I walk away.10
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I've learned it's as frustrating to them as it is to me when I'm given unsolicited advice on what I choose to consume. Apathy is easier than trying to change their mind.
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Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »nickssweetheart wrote: »ruqayyahsmum wrote: »My friend offerred a "homeless" guy complete with a begging sign a sandwich, crisps and a drink, he told her to *kitten* off..... 8 hours later on her way home from work she saw the same guy getting into a bow parked down a side street
Frankly, this sounds like the sort of thing that gets posted to Facebook as always having happened to someone's "friend" and is really just spewing misinformation about people that are already marginalized in our society so that the rest of us can feel better about social inequality.
There are several professional beggers in Toronto who when exposed at the time several years ago owned homes,cars and considerable savings. It was a big story for quite some time tgat identified the specific people.. they were pretty pissed and some moved to different cities so they could keep begging.
Now obviously this isnt a reality for all. But it does exist.
There's a known family who does it in my area. Two parents and 3 adolescent kids. None work and they make an obscene amount of money begging. Large house, multiple cars.. occasionally they get busted for it, but it's a fine or misdemeanor and they just pay it and go about their business.
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jadkins389 wrote: »As a nutritionist I have to put my two cents in and say that research shows that artificial sweeteners do not help with weight loss. Most are just synthetic versions of the sugar you are avoiding and your body treats it as such. Honey or Stevia are your best options for low-glycemic sweeteners. That being said, even as a nutritionist, we meet people where they are. Everyone is different, everyone likes different things, and everyone is willing to sacrifice different things to achieve their goals.
Now as a human being, I must say it is completely inappropriate to confront a stranger in public telling them what they are doing "wrong". Even if you think you are "right", it is still just wrong.
Let me guess. You're a nutritionist, but not a dietitian, right?
I'm glad that the dietitian I see actually uses science, and not woo.12 -
Everyone has an opinion, there's science to back up both sides of the fake sugar debate. Why do you people have to be so *kitten* to someone who disagrees with you?
I don't know who flagged this or why, but the flag is inappropriate.
There is no actual science backing up the premise that "fake sugar" is harmful. If you read the first several posts in the "Aspartame isn't scary" thread you will find numerous legitimate peer-reviewed studies that show it is not. There are no legitimate peer-reviewed studies that show it is in people who have no adverse reactions to the components.
I'd rather this didn't turn into an "evil Splenda" thread, since the OP centers on inappropriate comments from strangers, and the circumstance of the specific comment is incidental to the conversation.
edited for clarity and grammar :embarrassed:
Stop acting like there's no science to back up the negative reviews of fake sugar. Science doesn't even know everything about it yet, but it's so great that you all apparently do.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3198517/
the conclusion from the paper you cite:
CONCLUSIONS
Sugar substitutes in various food and beverages are very popular in most of the countries. Extensive scientific research has demonstrated the safety of the six low-calorie sweeteners currently approved for use in foods in the U.S. and Europe (stevia, acesulfame-K, aspartame, neotame, saccharin and sucralose) each with an acceptable daily intake. A number of studies have been carried out to confirm the safety of artificial sweeteners. A number of studies have also shown the adverse effects of the same. But most of the studies have limitations such as effects shown only in animals not in human, small sample size, high doses, statistically non-significant or borderline significant, etc. The sugar substitutes are thoroughly investigated for safety with hundreds of scientific studies and then approved by different regulatory authorities like the U.S. FDA, JECFA and FSANZ. Some agents are approved with warning labels too. So further exploration is required with well-designed large-scale studies in the general population. On the anecdotal evidence, it has been concluded that based on analysis of the database of case histories, there are a number of symptoms that are recurrently reported by individuals who believe that they are caused by sugar substitute ingestion. The information gathered in this analysis can be useful in guiding the design and format of any investigative study that may be undertaken to determine individual sensitivity to sugar substitutes.
I am not saying fake sugar causes cancer or kills you. I am saying, and the article agrees, that fake sure has been linked to weight gain and confuses your body's insulin response.
For people who are diabetic or trying to lose weight (most people on MFP), it gives them this idea that they can eat all that they want because it has no calories and is "healthy". I am not diabetic but I am hypoglycemic. When I switched from drinking regular soda to diet, my blood sugars would crash horribly, even worse than when I drank regular. I wasn't losing weight as I was before, and that was with no other dietrary changes.
I'm a type 1 diabetic. My body doesn't make insulin. Kindly tell me what "insulin response" drinking Diet Coke is going to give me, or is going to confuse my body with. My blood sugar doesn't even spike when I drink Diet Coke, which is what any person with two brain cells to rub together would *expect* to happen if you believed that so-called insulin responses actually happen in response to aspartame.
If that pseudoscience *kitten* worked, type 1 diabetics wouldn't need to *kitten* inject insulin.
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You can thank piss poor journalists and Gwyneth Paltrow for nonsense like this. Anytime someone tells you that you should or shouldn't eat something because of "x" reason, your first response should always be "Prove it!". The fact that we currently live in a world where people think that they can possess truth without facts just goes to show doomed we are and why Trump can be president.
The incredible irony of the situation is that after more than 100 combined years of research on non-nutritive sweeteners like Saccharin and Aspartame (one of the most studied of all synthetic compounds), no causal link has been found to brain tumors, seizures, or allergic reactions.
Does it raise basal insulin secretion in the absence of glucose?
Yes, but so do fatty acids, and innumerable other dietary agents other than glucose - the hit rate for non-glucose dependent insulin secretion is VERY HIGH - in other words, it is meaningless to use even insulin sensitivity as a determinant reason for avoiding artificial sweeteners....
this is where many people might add "IMHO". I suppose if everything I just said were opinion, then I might be inclined to do the same, but an opinion is something you offer in the absence of facts.
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I had no problem with splenda but my mom noticed that even though doctors say it is better for folks with diabetes it sent her blood sugar all over the place compared to just using sugar in stuff.0
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At Starbucks (!) I was standing at the bar with her - she reached across me for truvia, I reached across her for splenda. We smiled at each other. And she says out of the blue "You shouldn't use that stuff, you know. It's worse than sugar." I did my tight, inappropriate stranger smile and finished stirring my coffee - and she keeps on lecturing! "You really need to stop using that, it's nothing but chemicals. It's really a terrible thing to do to your body..." and on and on as she's walking out the door. I half-expected her to hand me a pamphlet directing me to some kind of artificial sweetener support group. It was kind of surreal - and I wish I hadn't been so stunned that I had absolutely nothing to say
I've read here about strangers making inappropriate comments in general about people's food choices, but usually not direct evangalizing to their faces - it's certainly a first for me! Does this sort of thing happen often, and am I just oblivious? Does anyone want to share a story?
And of course, now I'm thinking of all the things I could have said if I was just a little bit quicker on my feet - did anyone actually think fast enough to make a good comeback?
Is an open hand slap acceptable?
If not we need to bring it back.4 -
jadkins389 wrote: »As a nutritionist I have to put my two cents in and say that research shows that artificial sweeteners do not help with weight loss. Most are just synthetic versions of the sugar you are avoiding and your body treats it as such. Honey or Stevia are your best options for low-glycemic sweeteners. That being said, even as a nutritionist, we meet people where they are. Everyone is different, everyone likes different things, and everyone is willing to sacrifice different things to achieve their goals.
Now as a human being, I must say it is completely inappropriate to confront a stranger in public telling them what they are doing "wrong". Even if you think you are "right", it is still just wrong.
...and this perfectly and clearly illustrates why people are often advised to see a dietician rather than a nutritionist. The only part of that first paragraph which is actually true are the last two sentences.22 -
At Starbucks (!) I was standing at the bar with her - she reached across me for truvia, I reached across her for splenda. We smiled at each other. And she says out of the blue "You shouldn't use that stuff, you know. It's worse than sugar." I did my tight, inappropriate stranger smile and finished stirring my coffee - and she keeps on lecturing! "You really need to stop using that, it's nothing but chemicals. It's really a terrible thing to do to your body..." and on and on as she's walking out the door. I half-expected her to hand me a pamphlet directing me to some kind of artificial sweetener support group. It was kind of surreal - and I wish I hadn't been so stunned that I had absolutely nothing to say
I've read here about strangers making inappropriate comments in general about people's food choices, but usually not direct evangalizing to their faces - it's certainly a first for me! Does this sort of thing happen often, and am I just oblivious? Does anyone want to share a story?
And of course, now I'm thinking of all the things I could have said if I was just a little bit quicker on my feet - did anyone actually think fast enough to make a good comeback?
Is an open hand slap acceptable?
If not we need to bring it back.
Like an invitation to a duel? That could be fun!9 -
At Starbucks (!) I was standing at the bar with her - she reached across me for truvia, I reached across her for splenda. We smiled at each other. And she says out of the blue "You shouldn't use that stuff, you know. It's worse than sugar." I did my tight, inappropriate stranger smile and finished stirring my coffee - and she keeps on lecturing! "You really need to stop using that, it's nothing but chemicals. It's really a terrible thing to do to your body..." and on and on as she's walking out the door. I half-expected her to hand me a pamphlet directing me to some kind of artificial sweetener support group. It was kind of surreal - and I wish I hadn't been so stunned that I had absolutely nothing to say
I've read here about strangers making inappropriate comments in general about people's food choices, but usually not direct evangalizing to their faces - it's certainly a first for me! Does this sort of thing happen often, and am I just oblivious? Does anyone want to share a story?
And of course, now I'm thinking of all the things I could have said if I was just a little bit quicker on my feet - did anyone actually think fast enough to make a good comeback?
Is an open hand slap acceptable?
If not we need to bring it back.
Like an invitation to a duel? That could be fun!
Remember the Simpsons episode where Homer ran around glove slapping everyone?
Now that song is stuck in my head.
8
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