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Are Processed Foods "Bad"?
Replies
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lemurcat12 wrote: »
Home kitchens don't need that. Ultra processed foods must make foods that taste good with an extensive shelf life and made for very cheap. Home cooks can easily make MUCH better food just using tried and true methods and ingredients (like butter!). There is NO packaged sweet that to my taste comes anywhere close to a really interesting fine dining dessert or even my own apple or strawberry-rhubarb pie or the many different kinds of homemade Christmas cookies some of us exchange at my office during Christmas season. My assistant has a catering business on the side, and she makes some delicious desserts too -- WAY better than anything you can buy at the grocery store or some fast food place or whatever.
But that aside, that wasn't really my point. You seemed to be equating "processed food" and "junk food" and not all junk food is especially processed and CERTAINLY not all processed food is junk food...
One of the things food manufactures do to save money is use ingredients like artificial vanilla or almond extract. Yes, these are WAY cheaper. But they may be what's giving packaged baked good mixes that chemically, artificial, wrong taste that makes me avoid them.
When I first moved in with my OH, I saw how much he was paying for baked brownies and decided to make them myself. I went through this whole thing where I tried at least a half dozen make from scratch recipes and around that many brands of packaged brownie mixes. The ones with artificial flavors just taste wrong to me, but it doesn't bother him.
Now, the Ghirardelli brownie mix does list artificial flavors, but these taste fine to me. Maybe they use less, or maybe a different kind /shrug/.
Pillbury has a Purely Simple line that doesn't have any artificial colors or flavors. I tried this once, but it was pretty expensive for a cake mix and I had to go out of my way to find a store that carries it. (Target.) It didn't save me much time, either - adding leavening, salt, and sugar just takes a few minutes.1 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »
Why should I? Do you have any science they lower your mitochondria count or their health?
Not at all. I was just curious. I eat the round eggs on occasion myself.
The almond/raisin cake was something I hadn't seen you mention before, and it seemed a little different in both prep and carb content, so l wondered whether you'd taken a different dietary direction. It seemed like a logical question to me, in context of the thread.3 -
kshama2001 wrote: »
Lots of people on MFP do use that super broad definition, and it is technically correct.
However, no one I know in real life uses it. When they say "processed foods", they mean what the Brazilian government has defined as Ultra Processed Foods: http://189.28.128.100/dab/docs/portaldab/publicacoes/guia_alimentar_populacao_ingles.pdf
I don't find that how people use the term offline lines up with the Brazilian ultra processed definition (which I don't find especially helpful or easy to understand). People would certainly call foods that have no "additives" like dried pasta or a packaged beans and rice with some spices "processed," would call canned tuna and smoked salmon processed, would call cheese (not just American, which is not favored in my social circles) processed, and would certainly call the other various foods I mentioned -- such as an Amy's frozen meal, Kind bar, canned tomatoes, dark chocolate, protein powder -- processed. There's no other reasonable use of the term.
Using "processed" as a synonym for "junk food" as that poster indicated he or she was doing is a bizarre and senseless way to use it, especially as the term "junk food" already exists, and how processed vs. homemade something is is a separate issue from how high cal/low nutrient it is.
The processed = junk food is also not how the Brazilian gov't uses the term.
I think there are cultural reasons why that approach (focus on whole foods) may work particularly well in Brazil and for the reasons set forth above I think a diet based around whole foods IS often likely to be healthier and cooking yourself can help with calories if you care about them and make an effort, but that doesn't mean "processed foods are bad" as the question was posed.
I think we mostly agree on these questions except that word usage in your social circles may be different than in mine, I dunno. I think I never really ate a lot of the super ultra processed foods, so when someone talks about processed foods that's not where my mind goes. It goes to the examples of processed foods that I find useful and include in my diet.3 -
In certain contexts cake is also pudding.
The almond patty is a calorie bomb whereas the single ingredient tomato slice is very low fat and has more vitamin E. That makes the tomato cake very much gooder.
Unless the toxic nature of nightshade plants causes overt or subclinical health issues.7 -
kshama2001 wrote: »
I didn't know this was possible. How long does it take for Oreos to get stale?
(I don't have this problem because Oreos are not something I can moderate, and they haven't been in my house for years.)
I've got a couple boxes of Girl Scout cookies from a year or two ago. They've probably gone bad by now.1 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »
Unless the toxic nature of nightshade plants causes overt or subclinical health issues.
The Solanaceae are a big family, botanically speaking. Humans have been eating many of them (many of the genus Solanum - potatoes, tomatoes, eggplant, etc.) and thriving, for centuries or millennia. I'll cheerfully take my chances.
Others (Datura, Atropa belladonna a.k.a. Deadly Nightshade, etc.) are deadly to humans even in small amounts.
It's a matter of which alkaloids they contain. But they're all "natural", and typically minimally (if at all) processed.2 -
WinoGelato wrote: »
I was actually thinking something similar and you articulated it very well. There are a lot of posters on here, namely the three directly above me (yourself, amusedmonkey and lemurcat) who take careful consideration that their words convey the true meaning of that they are trying to get across, they really try to engage in thoughtful conversation and understand what others are trying to convey when they post. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen lemur dissect a post that someone else throws out where they seem to imply one thing and a devout belief in that thing, and lemur patiently tries to engage and respectfully question their post to see if it’s just a misunderstanding, often leaving it with a simple “I’d be open to discussing this further” and then never gets an actual response.
So I don’t know if it’s that some of these people feel challenged when their beliefs are questioned, no matter how respectfully the questions are written, if they are turned off by the thought of engaging in a long and pragmatic discussion with an Internet stranger, or if they just are so grounded in their simplistic rule set and have no intent of ever considering more complex, detailed logic behind WHY they believe the things they believe.
It’s impressive to me that posters like yourself, amused monkey and lemur do continue to try to bridge that gap of simple misunderstanding, logical reasoning and/or cognitive dissonance to see if a more common semantic ground can be reached. I try as well but usually take a bit more of a provocative approach with a “why are processed foods bad” to see if the person can articulate more of their beliefs, but I rarely get an answer either, so I’m not sure my approach is working!
This is simplsistic, but I think there's a grain of truth: People who don't see the value in taking time to use words carefully, don't mostly use them competently or successfully . . . just as people who don't see the value in taking the time to use screwdrivers or hammers carefully, don't mostly use them competently or successfully.
You've seen the "words, words, words" or "TL;DR" responses to thoughtful posts on occasion here. To some people, talking about words, the useage of words, the logical structure of an argument, that sort of thing, is just a major waste of time. Competence in communication - reading or writing - will not ensue.
Semantics isn't everyone's cup of meat. We all have our differing interests and talents, which lead to differing skills and competencies. S'OK. Gotta be.
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The outer aisles of my grocery store have breads, liquor, deli meat, packaged frozen foods, margarine, bakery goods (cakes, cookies, bagels, etc.) and hot to-go foods. Does your advice still stand?
yes, in general the "healthier" food is out on the outskirts - such as the fruits, vegetables , dairy.8 -
stevencloser wrote: »
Can you show me the nearest cake tree? There's nothing about cake that is not processed.
use self rising flour, alternative sugars such as dates...10 -
Yeah. Cake is so processed that even its main ingredients are processed: Flour (usually enriched white flour at that), sugar, butter, vanilla extract, milk. And the baking powder: That stuff is in there just because it's chemikills!
That stuff will surely kill you! May I please have a slice?
whole fat butter is not processed
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WinoGelato wrote: »
Both of which are processed...
...raw almonds are not processed...3 -
...raw almonds are not processed...
I’m sure someone will claim that taking the shells off the almonds makes them processed!
3 -
It comes right out of the cow in those cool, neatly wrapped cubes?
Learn something new every day.13 -
use self rising flour, alternative sugars such as dates...
Self rising flour just has the baking powder already in it (plus salt), in addition to the fine-ground wheat (and maybe some "enriched" vitamin content). It's not "less processed"; it's "more processed". Date sugar has a whalloping lot of sucrose, just like table sugar (a.k.a. beet sugar, cane sugar).8 -
Next thing you’ll tell me is finely ground wheat berries aren’t processed either.8
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Yeah, it is. It's churned (in an industrial way) and usually salted. Processed. Butter doesn't come out of the cow in wax-paper-wrapped rectangular chunks. "Full fat butter" is just butter. "Low fat butter" is not butter at all: It's butter substitute. Butter is dairy fat.10 -
It comes right out of the cow in those cool, neatly wrapped cubes?
Learn something new every day.
it's great to learn something new everyday! Keeps you mentally healthy. Raw butter is unprocessed, unheated, unpasteurized and unhomogenised butter fat which comes from cream. This means that raw butter contains all of the necessary vitamins and minerals that nature intended it to contain.12 -
Yeah, it is. It's churned (in an industrial way) and usually salted. Processed. Butter doesn't come out of the cow in wax-paper-wrapped rectangular chunks. "Full fat butter" is just butter. "Low fat butter" is not butter at all: It's butter substitute. Butter is dairy fat.
Raw butter is unprocessed, unheated, unpasteurized and unhomogenised butter fat which comes from cream. This means that raw butter contains all of the necessary vitamins and minerals that nature intended it to contain.9 -
Self rising flour just has the baking powder already in it (plus salt), in addition to the fine-ground wheat (and maybe some "enriched" vitamin content). It's not "less processed"; it's "more processed". Date sugar has a whalloping lot of sucrose, just like table sugar (a.k.a. beet sugar, cane sugar).
does the sucrose make it processed? i think of processed differently. Basically all food we eat unless raw is considered process if you base it on your response. But when I think of processed I thing of "Industrial processing depending upon sugar, white flour, processed and hydrogenated oils, synthetic food additives and vitamins, heat treatment and the extrusion of grains."4 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »
I’m sure someone will claim that taking the shells off the almonds makes them processed!
And this is where the ridiculousness about "processed foods" stems from, and why it's as crazy, nebulous and subjective to define as "clean eating". Did somebody pick those sealed, pre-weighed bags of raw almonds straight from a tree? Or were those almonds harvested, shelled, sorted, weighed and packaged in a factory? Who makes the determination as to whether that fits the definition of "processed" or not, and does that fact that they went through that processing automatically make them "bad for you"? Where, and by who, is a definitive line drawn where processing beyond some particular arbitrary point makes things "bad for you"?7 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »
I’m sure someone will claim that taking the shells off the almonds makes them processed!
hahaha....everyone has their opinion, right? i was simply trying to make a point to the initial poster of thread: eat well -->nutrition dense food, eat cake once in awhile, & spread the love.3 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »
I’m sure someone will claim that taking the shells off the almonds makes them processed!
Shelled, cleaned, pasteurized (even 'raw' ones). Sounds like processes to me.7 -
Raw butter is unprocessed, unheated, unpasteurized and unhomogenised butter fat which comes from cream. This means that raw butter contains all of the necessary vitamins and minerals that nature intended it to contain.
The cream is churned to encourage the butterfat to separate from the milk. The butterfat is then pressed to remove the rest of the liquid. Processed.
More processed than finely ground raw wheatberries. Also known as flour.
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Raw butter is unprocessed, unheated, unpasteurized and unhomogenised butter fat which comes from cream. This means that raw butter contains all of the necessary vitamins and minerals that nature intended it to contain.
It comes from cream by . . . magic? I would've thought it was processing.
Does self-rising flour also contain all the necessary vitamins and minerals that nature intended it to contain?
Look, I prefer butter to margarine or imitation butter or whatever, because humans have been eating it and thriving for millennia. But it's processed. "Processed" is not evil. It's just transformed in some way. Some processing removes nutrients, some adds nutrients, some is nutrient neutral. Some processing introduces undesirable qualities (hydrogenation of fats, for one). Other processing enhances desirable qualities (freezing, in some scenarios). When it comes to making food choices, whether it is "processed" is a pretty faulty way to distinguish between reasonable choices and risky ones.8 -
does the sucrose make it processed? i think of processed differently. Basically all food we eat unless raw is considered process if you base it on your response. But when I think of processed I thing of "Industrial processing depending upon sugar, white flour, processed and hydrogenated oils, synthetic food additives and vitamins, heat treatment and the extrusion of grains."
No, but the sucrose means the date sugar is utilized by your body in essentially the same way as table sugar. In the amount of either sugar that's part of a well-balanced diet, the additional nutrients in date sugar are negligible.5 -
it's great to learn something new everyday! Keeps you mentally healthy. Raw butter is unprocessed, unheated, unpasteurized and unhomogenised butter fat which comes from cream. This means that raw butter contains all of the necessary vitamins and minerals that nature intended it to contain.
@dra760 as a kid my mom and I made butter by hand so technically it is mechanically produced to be in an edible form. No it was not chemically produced like artificial butter.4 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »
I’m sure someone will claim that taking the shells off the almonds makes them processed!
That's the problem with the term....it isn't really defined. I th I'll no one could easily claim almonds you buy in a store are processed simply because they have been heavily modified from their natural counterpart in order to be made edible. Natural almonds are quite poisonous....a handful would likely kill you.
Which brings us to the other term that gets thrown around a lot....natural.5 -
Wootrition and empty calories.0
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My Fisher whole natural almonds state almonds as the only ingredient for example. The backside reads Live Life UNSHELLED.2
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