Are there really no bad carbs?
Options
JanetBiard
Posts: 19 Member
I know that I am going to be shot down in flames for saying this but I have become increasingly fed up by the people posting on MFP that there are no such things as bad carbs. This is really poor advice. The theory that as long as you maintain a calorie deficit you will lose weight may be true but it is appalling advice. On this basis you are suggesting that a diet of only cake and cookies is as valid as one full of vegetables, and as likely to lead to weight loss. That is simply wrong. On the cake diet I would feel dreadful, and I am setting myself up for failure as I am unlikely to feel satisfied with the portions of cake I can eat to stay in deficit.
Learning how to eat a nutritionally sound diet which is satisfying, energising and likely to stop me getting diabetes is part of the journey that people need to be on if they want to lose weight permanently. You can all call this woo and tell me the problem with cake is not the carbs it is the fat but really? Eating highly processed carbs with no fibre, lots of added sugars and god knows what chemicals are simply not a help if you are trying to lose weight.
Learning how to eat a nutritionally sound diet which is satisfying, energising and likely to stop me getting diabetes is part of the journey that people need to be on if they want to lose weight permanently. You can all call this woo and tell me the problem with cake is not the carbs it is the fat but really? Eating highly processed carbs with no fibre, lots of added sugars and god knows what chemicals are simply not a help if you are trying to lose weight.
109
Replies
-
I've never seen one person recommend an "all cake and cookie diet" - that's ridiculous, although perhaps you should look up the Twinkie diet.
I don't believe attaching negative connotations to food and eating is healthy.57 -
Not once have I read people advocating a diet of cake and cookies. People do however say "All things in moderation" and to choose an eating plan you can stick with for life.
Labelling food as good and bad is a dangerous trip down the path of disordered eating. It can lead to many restrictions and binge eating. It is simply not a healthy way to view food.
There are foods that are more nutritionally dense than others and it is these foods that should be the focus of the majority of our food choices but there is nothing wrong with a treat now and then.37 -
Nobody that I’ve seen on the forums has ever suggested eating an all cake/cookie diet. While CICO is the basis for weightloss, nutrition and moderation is still extremely important. Having a little cake or 1-2 cookies every now and then is fine...even every single day (I always save room for treats). But we know it isn’t good to base your entire diet around those things.32
-
Don't look at bad carbs as a single food single context thing. Everything is about context and dosage, and that's what is being said (but not heard because it sounds counterintuitive to some).
Think about water: water is not bad, it's good and necessary in fact. It can be very healthy. That's a sound statement.
Now think about water in context:
Does the above statement being true make the following statements true?
1. Having a diet that has nothing but water is as good as having a varied balanced diet.
2. Drinking 20 liters of water a day is a good thing.
Few choices are a direct dichotomy or need to be exclusive (eating cake doesn't mean not eating vegetables), but for the sake of argument, let's create direct either/or choices for cake and kale in context and dosage:
Context 1: mono food diets
- Eating nothing but cake is bad for health. True
- Eating nothing but kale is bad for health. True
Context 2: someone who has a problem eating enough calories and risks undereating. Which of the two choices would be better? Having a piece of cake at 400 calories or a bowl of kale at 40?
Answer: cake is better in this context.
Context 3: a person is on a diet and they feel restricted and on the verge of quitting. Which choice is better for their health?
- Trying to willpower through it, eat kale instead, feel the diet is hard, quit dieting and remain overweight because willpower can only take you so far.
- Eating a piece of cake, not feeling restricted, may or may not go over calories that day, but in the long run continue to diet and achieve a healthy weight.
Context 4: It's a birthday party
- Sit in the corner eating a bowl of kale feeling miserable
- Eat a piece of cake and be social
Which one is better for your social health (physical health is not the only important part of overall health)
Context 5: someone is new to dieting and everything feels overwhelming. They're feeling confused and trying to juggle several extreme changes at once. Which advice is better?
- Remove all cake and suck it up, eat kale instead. (this may lead to being even more overwhelmed and quitting)
- Baby steps. Learn how to control your cake intake. Eating one piece of cake is a great improvement over eating 3 pieces. You're learning and on the road to successful dieting and health.
Context 6: when food affects self talk
- I lost control and had a piece of cake. I feel anxious and resent myself for making such a bad choice when I could have had kale.
- I chose to have a piece of cake. It's just a piece of cake. It's not a bad food, just a food that doesn't help me achieve my goals consumed regularly in large quantities (similar to nuts). It will not derail my diet or nutrition because I usually have a varied diet. Go me!
Which self talk is better for mental health?
TL;DNR:
What the usual argument is not: eat nothing but cake within calories and forget about nutrition
What the usual argument is: eat a varied diet, including cake if you want, in the right context and dosage
P.S: cake and cookies usually have a lot of fat too. They're not just a carb, they're multi nutrient foods.63 -
I did not say anyone has advocated a diet of cake and cookies. What I am saying is that is the logical ridiculous end point of the claims that there are no bad carbs. If there were no bad carbs then the cake and cookie diet would be fine but as you say it is clearly ridiculous.
And of course I agree that there is nothing wrong with a treat now and then. But advocating a just eat what you want as long as you stay in your calories is not going to help people stay on track.
I have deliberately made a ridiculous suggestion about just eating cakes and cookies to highlight why “there are no bad carbs “ is a ridiculous position to take and unhelpful to the people who ask about this.
Making suggestions to reduce refined highly processed carbs would be helpful to people. But time after time I see people who ask about carbs getting the answer “there are no bad carbs” and anyone who suggests otherwise gets a load of woos added as a response. It is not supportive of the people who are asking for help or the people who are trying to make helpful suggestions.76 -
The reason you are being shot down in flames is that you are having a go at people for saying something that nobody has said. If you have to misrepresent people in order to argue with them, that ought to suggest to a reasonable person that maybe their argument is invalid.
Yes, a diet of solely cake would be bad, but that doesn’t make it a ‘bad food’. A diet of solely broccoli would be bad too - does that mean you’re going to tell us broccoli is a ‘bad food’ as well? If not, why not?
This false dichotomy keeps being presented, usually by people who prefer to believe in woo and will grasp at any straw to dismiss the simple science-based strategy of CICO. Tell me, which brand of woo is yours?52 -
JanetBiard wrote: »I did not say anyone has advocated a diet of cake and cookies. What I am saying is that is the logical ridiculous end point of the claims that there are no bad carbs. If there were no bad carbs then the cake and cookie diet would be fine but as you say it is clearly ridiculous.
And of course I agree that there is nothing wrong with a treat now and then. But advocating a just eat what you want as long as you stay in your calories is not going to help people stay on track.
I have deliberately made a ridiculous suggestion about just eating cakes and cookies to highlight why “there are no bad carbs “ is a ridiculous position to take and unhelpful to the people who ask about this.
Making suggestions to reduce refined highly processed carbs would be helpful to people. But time after time I see people who ask about carbs getting the answer “there are no bad carbs” and anyone who suggests otherwise gets a load of woos added as a response. It is not supportive of the people who are asking for help or the people who are trying to make helpful suggestions.
Nutrition is important and should always be considered whether or not weight loss is a goal. When weight loss is a goal, and for weight loss, calories are what matter. The requirement for adequate nutrition from your foods is a given and a separate subject. If someone asks for directions on how to drive somewhere, do you need to remind them to fasten their seat belt before they start the car?
Cake and cookies get a lot of their calories from fat. Are they "bad fats" as well as "bad carbs"?30 -
I like cake, and cookies!28
-
By that logic there are also bad proteins and bad fats. Eating too much of anything can impact on your macronutrient balance, satiety and health. If I eat only white fish, or only avocados and eggs, it's also bad, but that doesn't make fish, avocados and eggs bad in themselves.
24 -
-
Cake and cookies have a high fat content as well, yet they only get the blame for being bad carbs...16
-
Thank you to those of you who have made thoughtful contributions above, I appreciate this.
I don’t have any particular “brand of woo”, I wanted to understand why any suggestion that there might be bad carbs, that it might be helpful to stop eating, gets such a negative response on this community. It seems strange to me, as the calorie dense, nutritionally poor, highly processed foods we are surrounded with seems to me to be a contributory factor in weight gain.
Oh well, I will stick to my journey and you will stick to yours.
31 -
JanetBiard wrote: »Thank you to those of you who have made thoughtful contributions above, I appreciate this.
I don’t have any particular “brand of woo”, I wanted to understand why any suggestion that there might be bad carbs, that it might be helpful to stop eating, gets such a negative response on this community. It seems strange to me, as the calorie dense, nutritionally poor, highly processed foods we are surrounded with seems to me to be a contributory factor in weight gain.
Oh well, I will stick to my journey and you will stick to yours.
Life is to short to never eat cake though!25 -
JanetBiard wrote: »Thank you to those of you who have made thoughtful contributions above, I appreciate this.
I don’t have any particular “brand of woo”, I wanted to understand why any suggestion that there might be bad carbs, that it might be helpful to stop eating, gets such a negative response on this community. It seems strange to me, as the calorie dense, nutritionally poor, highly processed foods we are surrounded with seems to me to be a contributory factor in weight gain.
Oh well, I will stick to my journey and you will stick to yours.
I think the line of communication breaks in that many of old users who have been successful for years here focus on the sustainability part of dieting because compromised sustainability tends to be what leads many people to regain weight, not compromised nutrition. Good nutrition is usually assumed as a given by long time users of the site, because almost everyone knows that nutrition is important and what foods are nutrient rich. What many new dieters don't know is that good nutrition can be achieved by looking at the diet as a whole, not as single foods. This means they can achieve a nutritious diet without cutting out their favorite foods, which is a freeing thought for many people who are anxious about dieting and are finding it hard.
With that said, if someone asks about nutrition they will get a completely different type of answer that is focused on achieving better nutrition. Take a stroll through "how to eat more vegetables" or "I can't hit my protein goal" kinds of threads to see what I mean.24 -
I disagree that things like cake are a contributory factor in weight gain, when consumed within overall appropriate calorie diet.
Certainly I have eaten plenty of cake and similar foods in the last 5 years - 5 years in which I lost and then maintained my weight.
I do not agree there are any bad carbs - or bad anything food wise.
It is a matter of eating within context of an overall balanced diet and an overall appropriate calorie level.
( of course some individuals have trigger foods which they individually can choose to avoid - but that is a behavioural issue, not a nutritional one)20 -
JanetBiard wrote: »Thank you to those of you who have made thoughtful contributions above, I appreciate this.
I don’t have any particular “brand of woo”, I wanted to understand why any suggestion that there might be bad carbs, that it might be helpful to stop eating, gets such a negative response on this community. It seems strange to me, as the calorie dense, nutritionally poor, highly processed foods we are surrounded with seems to me to be a contributory factor in weight gain.
Oh well, I will stick to my journey and you will stick to yours.
Excess calories from any source are a contributing factor in weight gain. I know plenty of fat raw vegans, who wouldn't eat the "bad" carbs you mention. I gained weight doing the Whole 30. I have to monitor my vegetable intake as I can easily overeat them and gain weight following a diet nearly void of added sugars, refined grains, cakes and cookies etc.13 -
. I did not say anyone has advocated a diet of cake and cookies. What I am saying is that is the logical ridiculous end point of the claims that there are no bad carbs. If there were no bad carbs then the cake and cookie diet would be fine but as you say it is clearly ridiculous.
That is not the logical end point of 'there are no bad carbs' at all.
If I say there are no bad vegetables ( a statement I assume you would agree with) then is the logical end point from that that I am advocating for a diet of only vegetables or that a diet of only vegetables would be fine ?????
I mean, it is exactly the same logic.29 -
JanetBiard wrote: »Thank you to those of you who have made thoughtful contributions above, I appreciate this.
I don’t have any particular “brand of woo”, I wanted to understand why any suggestion that there might be bad carbs, that it might be helpful to stop eating, gets such a negative response on this community. It seems strange to me, as the calorie dense, nutritionally poor, highly processed foods we are surrounded with seems to me to be a contributory factor in weight gain.
Oh well, I will stick to my journey and you will stick to yours.
I feel that you making the comments you have is treating people like they are too stupid to know that a diet of cake and cookies is a bad idea. That is why comments like this get shot down. It is quite insulting that you would think any newbie would come along, read comments that it is ok to eat these treats and still lose weight and then decide that only eating these kinds of foods is a good way to go.28 -
JanetBiard wrote: »It seems strange to me, as the calorie dense, nutritionally poor, highly processed foods we are surrounded with seems to me to be a contributory factor in weight gain.
Only if you eat more of them than fits within your calories.
A big contributory factor to weight regain after successful dieting is never having learned to eat those things in moderation. And a big contributory factor to failing to lose weight at all is thinking that you have to give up all those foods that you like.
That’s why I will stick to my journey, in which I’ve lost over 220 lb without giving up those calorie-dense, nutrient-poor, delicious foods, without demonising any foods, and while eating healthily.
What I want to know is why you have so much of an issue with that.32 -
JanetBiard wrote: »I know that I am going to be shot down in flames for saying this but I have become increasingly fed up by the people posting on MFP that there are no such things as bad carbs. This is really poor advice. The theory that as long as you maintain a calorie deficit you will lose weight may be true but it is appalling advice. On this basis you are suggesting that a diet of only cake and cookies is as valid as one full of vegetables, and as likely to lead to weight loss. That is simply wrong. On the cake diet I would feel dreadful, and I am setting myself up for failure as I am unlikely to feel satisfied with the portions of cake I can eat to stay in deficit.
Learning how to eat a nutritionally sound diet which is satisfying, energising and likely to stop me getting diabetes is part of the journey that people need to be on if they want to lose weight permanently. You can all call this woo and tell me the problem with cake is not the carbs it is the fat but really? Eating highly processed carbs with no fibre, lots of added sugars and god knows what chemicals are simply not a help if you are trying to lose weight.
There are no bad carbs.
Yes, you can lose weight eating a diet of cake and cookies, provided the number of calories you consume is less than the number of calories you burn.
In fact, you can eat whatever you want and lose weight, provided the number of calories you consume is less than the number of calories you burn.
Isn't that both exciting and freeing!!
You don't have to avoid favourite foods!
However, that said, yes, there are foods which have more "staying power". For example, a large plate of veggies makes me feel full longer than then the same number of calories in a chocolate bar.
And yes, there are foods which provide us with vitamins and minerals, which cake and cookies might not.
I have maintained a weight within my normal BMI range for the vast majority of my life ... and my diet has indeed included cakes and cookies. Frequent cakes and cookies. It also includes a whole lot of veggies, fruits, leans meats, whole grains and so on.
15
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.5K Getting Started
- 259.7K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 389 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.2K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.2K MyFitnessPal Information
- 22 News and Announcements
- 918 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.3K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions