Are there really no bad carbs?
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I'd say there are bad foods because it's almost impossible just getting all the micro-nutrients with the top foods and supplements in each micro-nutrient category let alone nutrient poor foods or foods high in omega 6s that will throw your omega 6s to omega 3s ratio out of balance. When I eat cake and cookies, I know I'm eating poor choices although I don't care sometimes. Some popular mfp beliefs don't make sense to me. Who started this no good or bad foods idea? I feel it's just a way to make you feel good about eating anything in your diet.38
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The occasional piece of chocolate cake makes me happy. It’s good for my mental health.16
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you are missing the point...no one who is saying there are no good or bad foods are saying eat "bad foods" at the detriment of getting required macro and micronutrients - but a well-round balanced diet is healthy - maybe that well-rounded diet includes ice cream once or twice a week - but that isn't going to be detrimental to your overall goals8
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JanetBiard wrote: »Thank you to those of you who have made thoughtful contributions above, I appreciate this.
I don’t have any particular “brand of woo”, I wanted to understand why any suggestion that there might be bad carbs, that it might be helpful to stop eating, gets such a negative response on this community. It seems strange to me, as the calorie dense, nutritionally poor, highly processed foods we are surrounded with seems to me to be a contributory factor in weight gain.
Oh well, I will stick to my journey and you will stick to yours.
What makes a carb "bad"? How are is a "bad carb" distinguished from a "good carb"?
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Calliope610 wrote: »JanetBiard wrote: »Thank you to those of you who have made thoughtful contributions above, I appreciate this.
I don’t have any particular “brand of woo”, I wanted to understand why any suggestion that there might be bad carbs, that it might be helpful to stop eating, gets such a negative response on this community. It seems strange to me, as the calorie dense, nutritionally poor, highly processed foods we are surrounded with seems to me to be a contributory factor in weight gain.
Oh well, I will stick to my journey and you will stick to yours.
What makes a carb "bad"? How are is a "bad carb" distinguished from a "good carb"?
The bad carb stole 3cms of material from your pants.9 -
CarvedTones wrote: »Of course there are bad carbs. I found several way in the back the last time I cleaned out the fridge...
Yeah ... I just tossed a bunch of similar bad carbs last week! Yikes!! Scientists would have liked to have a look at what I pulled out of there!2 -
JanetBiard wrote: »And of course I agree that there is nothing wrong with a treat now and then. But advocating a just eat what you want as long as you stay in your calories is not going to help people stay on track.
What is commonly said is that you will lose weight, stay on track is another thing. I mean, you're not wrong, but you're not arguing the actual point either.0 -
JanetBiard wrote: »I know that I am going to be shot down in flames for saying this but I have become increasingly fed up by the people posting on MFP that there are no such things as bad carbs. This is really poor advice. The theory that as long as you maintain a calorie deficit you will lose weight may be true but it is appalling advice. On this basis you are suggesting that a diet of only cake and cookies is as valid as one full of vegetables, and as likely to lead to weight loss. That is simply wrong. On the cake diet I would feel dreadful, and I am setting myself up for failure as I am unlikely to feel satisfied with the portions of cake I can eat to stay in deficit.
Learning how to eat a nutritionally sound diet which is satisfying, energising and likely to stop me getting diabetes is part of the journey that people need to be on if they want to lose weight permanently. You can all call this woo and tell me the problem with cake is not the carbs it is the fat but really? Eating highly processed carbs with no fibre, lots of added sugars and god knows what chemicals are simply not a help if you are trying to lose weight.
I have been on MFP since 2012. In all of that time, I have never once, seen anyone suggest that a diet of cake and cookies is as valid as one of vegetables. That is a really ludicrous statement, and very misleading to anyone new to this site, and or on a serious diet to lose weight. Admittedly, I have not read every posting on this site, but I have read enough of them to know that this kind of post would garner a lot of comments refuting your claim (as it already has) that anyone would suggest eating "only cake and cookies" to lose weight. IMHO, you do a disservice to this site by even suggesting this.
With no medical issues, moderation in ALL foods, and staying within your calorie budget whether it is for weight loss or maintaining a weight loss is a much truer statement, and one most resonable people would suggest.
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TheDevastator wrote: »I'd say there are bad foods because it's almost impossible just getting all the micro-nutrients with the top foods and supplements in each micro-nutrient category let alone nutrient poor foods or foods high in omega 6s that will throw your omega 6s to omega 3s ratio out of balance.
Can anyone parse this sentence?
Or tell me what a ‘top food’ is?
Or how the human race has survived if micronutrients are so darn impossible to get?18 -
Food contains no moral value. It's just food.12
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Sorry that was a run-on sentence. I've been up all night. I was testing how long you could hold your breath.TheDevastator wrote: »I'd say there are bad foods because it's almost impossible just getting all the micro-nutrients with the top foods and supplements in each micro-nutrient category let alone nutrient poor foods or foods high in omega 6s that will throw your omega 6s to omega 3s ratio out of balance.
Can anyone parse this sentence?
Or tell me what a ‘top food’ is?
Or how the human race has survived if micro-nutrients are so darn impossible to get?
Top foods as in each micro-nutrient.
The human race can survive without 100% of their daily amounts of micro-nutrients. They just don't have optimal health or can get diseases if going without a certain one for too long. I also didn't say they were impossible to get. Getting all of them in a day is impossible without supplementation or even a week can be hard.19 -
I gained the 35 lbs that I'm now loosing eating mostly "good" carbs, "good" fats, and "good" proteins, lol
I had too much (as in too big a portions that put me in a calorie surplus at the end of the day) healthy bean salad (dressed with too much olive oil); put too much healthy avocado on my big pieces of homemade sourdough bread; my plate of breakfast fruit was heaping with "healthy" calories, too big portions of quinoa with veggie omelettes and hummus...
...I ended up gaining weight rarely touching "bad" carbs (nor soda, nor junk food, nor fast food, nor booze, nor sweets) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯16 -
Personally I have actually found the complete opposite to the OP's point of view to be true.
Prior to finding mfp, I went on a diet because I was overweight and had other health issues. Even with medical advice I ended up taking things to the extreme. They told me about "bad carbs" and how I should eliminate them completely from my diet. Otherwise info was to eat a well balanced varied diet. One week I was pulled up because I had eaten (and tracked) 1 rich tea biscuit and told I should not have eaten it. I also voiced concerns, as I knew I needed to now eat a low fat diet. But was concerned my new diet was far to low in fat. I can't eat fish and don't like nuts. Nurse said that it is impossible for someone in the western world, to have a diet lacking in fat. She was reviewing my actual diet data and said I had nothing to worry about.
Fast forward a few months and lots of new symptoms, blood test revealed my healthy fats were now dangerously low. To immediately increase my fat intake.
Fortunately it was at this point I was also introduced to mfp as a diet tool. Started following the forums and learning so much. About balanced macros and how much to aim for, while making it easy to track.
Especially that there was "no such thing as bad carbs", it was liberating. By introducing a few treats I have reversed all my blood tests to healthy levels. While continuing my weight loss "journey" in a much healthier, happier and more sustainable way.
So THANKS to all you veterans who have painstakingly, taken the time to point this out.
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JanetBiard wrote: ». It seems strange to me, as the calorie dense, nutritionally poor, highly processed foods we are surrounded with seems to me to be a contributory factor in weight gain.
Eating or drinking too many calories from any source is the contributory factor in weight gain.
.
A lot of people don't know how many calories they need nor do they know how many they are consuming. It only takes a couple hundred calories over your maintenance level daily to gain weight or a big blow out once or twice a week.
It is easy to overeat when all the foods you choose are low protein, low fat, low fiber, low nutrient foods because you probably will not be satisfied.
Processing does not mean a food does not have nutrients.
If you are eating frozen meals, fast food burgers, homemade turkey chili you might be meeting your goals very well and be satisfied. You might spend 300 calories on a dessert every day and it is fine
If your calorie goal is 1,200 it is a good idea to plan what you are going to eat more carefully than someone who has 2,000 calories.4 -
JanetBiard wrote: »I know that I am going to be shot down in flames for saying this but I have become increasingly fed up by the people posting on MFP that there are no such things as bad carbs. This is really poor advice. The theory that as long as you maintain a calorie deficit you will lose weight may be true but it is appalling advice. On this basis you are suggesting that a diet of only cake and cookies is as valid as one full of vegetables, and as likely to lead to weight loss. That is simply wrong. On the cake diet I would feel dreadful, and I am setting myself up for failure as I am unlikely to feel satisfied with the portions of cake I can eat to stay in deficit.
Learning how to eat a nutritionally sound diet which is satisfying, energising and likely to stop me getting diabetes is part of the journey that people need to be on if they want to lose weight permanently. You can all call this woo and tell me the problem with cake is not the carbs it is the fat but really? Eating highly processed carbs with no fibre, lots of added sugars and god knows what chemicals are simply not a help if you0 -
JanetBiard wrote: »Thank you to those of you who have made thoughtful contributions above, I appreciate this.
I don’t have any particular “brand of woo”, I wanted to understand why any suggestion that there might be bad carbs, that it might be helpful to stop eating, gets such a negative response on this community. It seems strange to me, as the calorie dense, nutritionally poor, highly processed foods we are surrounded with seems to me to be a contributory factor in weight gain.
Oh well, I will stick to my journey and you will stick to yours.
Does that make the eggs in cake or the nuts in cookies bad proteins? What are bad carbs anyway?8 -
You just need better cakeJanetBiard wrote: »Eating highly processed carbs with no fibre, lots of added sugars and god knows what chemicals are simply not a help if you are trying to lose weight.
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You just need better cakeJanetBiard wrote: »Eating highly processed carbs with no fibre, lots of added sugars and god knows what chemicals are simply not a help if you are trying to lose weight.
I can’t think of a chemical I’ve ever put in a came either.3 -
So just another rant about a diet which nobody recommends in the first place, and which completely ignores context and dosage. Complete with references to 'teh chemikillz' and getting teh diabeetus from sugar (which, by the way, isn't a thing).
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JanetBiard wrote: »And of course I agree that there is nothing wrong with a treat now and then. But advocating a just eat what you want as long as you stay in your calories is not going to help people stay on track.
Au contrair. That is EXACTLY what helps me stay on track!!
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OP, good thing you were ready for your response.
I think there are carbs that contribute more to good health (and possibly weight loss because of it) and sine that detract from health (bad). Like people, there are no completely good or bad carbs even though we might call it bad. For example, someone who steals and hurts others may be called bad but in some circumstances he might be good, like with his family. Jelly beans might be a good treat for some people at some times, but other people will get very little positive out of it - it is a bad food for them.
What is good or bad varies between people, the time, and circumstance.
Dosage is important too. Five candies might be okay. Eighty? Not so much.
I think there are better and worse carbs for everyone when considering their health. For weight loss, the quality of carb is less important, but it can still impact some people. IMO
I think conversations go differently in different forums. In the clean eating or low carb or diabetes groups, this conversation may have had other responses. But, I guess that comes back to different people and circumstances. One person's truth is not my own.17 -
JanetBiard wrote: »I did not say anyone has advocated a diet of cake and cookies. What I am saying is that is the logical ridiculous end point of the claims that there are no bad carbs. If there were no bad carbs then the cake and cookie diet would be fine but as you say it is clearly ridiculous.
And of course I agree that there is nothing wrong with a treat now and then. But advocating a just eat what you want as long as you stay in your calories is not going to help people stay on track.
I have deliberately made a ridiculous suggestion about just eating cakes and cookies to highlight why “there are no bad carbs “ is a ridiculous position to take and unhelpful to the people who ask about this.
Making suggestions to reduce refined highly processed carbs would be helpful to people. But time after time I see people who ask about carbs getting the answer “there are no bad carbs” and anyone who suggests otherwise gets a load of woos added as a response. It is not supportive of the people who are asking for help or the people who are trying to make helpful suggestions.
OP, I think if you stick around for awhile and read more here, you will come to a very different opinion.
Many, many threads here come from newbies who are trying to eat all "good foods". But no one is perfect so they end up eating something "bad", they feel guilty, and they end up falling completely off the wagon. And this cycle continues over and over again, until they get frustrated or lose hope and give up. And I have seen this pattern with people I know IRL (including myself). What we are telling them is no one food will stop weight loss, or immediately make them unhealthy.
For me, it was incredibly freeing to stop feeling like a weak, chubby loser because I "caved" and had a bowl of ice cream after dinner. Giving myself permission to have a treat sometimes was literally the turning point that led to finally losing the weight.
I'll add that your argument is incredibly insulting to other newbies, suggesting they are so clueless that they will end up eating nothing but cake just because we told them it's okay to have a treat every day.
And your "ridiculous suggestion" could apply to any advice. I often tell people they should focus on getting more protein. Maybe I shouldn't do that since they may end up eating nothing but eggs? There was a running thread challenging people to eat 10 servings of produce per day. I guess that was bad advice, since newbies might have decided to eat nothing but broccoli?
If this is really concerning to you, you are more than welcome to spend your free time (like we do) jumping into these threads and reminding these OP's that while treating yourself every once and awhile is fine, they should not eat nothing but cake and cookies. I'll be honest and say I don't think I've ever seen a thread where the advice didn't include mention of a well balanced diet for health, but if you see a thread that doesn't, please feel free to chime in.12 -
I know that I am going to be shot down in flames for saying this but I have become increasingly fed up by the people posting on MFP that there are no such things as bad carbs. This is really poor advice. The theory that as long as you maintain a calorie deficit you will lose weight may be true but it is appalling advice. On this basis you are suggesting that a diet of only kale and cabbage is as valid as one full of fruits and starches, and as likely to lead to weight loss. That is simply wrong. On the kale diet I would feel dreadful, and I am setting myself up for failure as I am likely to feel overly stuffed and still unsatisfied with the portions of kale I can eat to stay in deficit.
^Do you see how silly it sounds?16 -
livingleanlivingclean wrote: »Calliope610 wrote: »JanetBiard wrote: »Thank you to those of you who have made thoughtful contributions above, I appreciate this.
I don’t have any particular “brand of woo”, I wanted to understand why any suggestion that there might be bad carbs, that it might be helpful to stop eating, gets such a negative response on this community. It seems strange to me, as the calorie dense, nutritionally poor, highly processed foods we are surrounded with seems to me to be a contributory factor in weight gain.
Oh well, I will stick to my journey and you will stick to yours.
What makes a carb "bad"? How are is a "bad carb" distinguished from a "good carb"?
The bad carb stole 3cms of material from your pants.
I knew it! He tried to claim that the bad protein did it, but I knew it was him!5 -
I ate an extremely rude Snickers bar once. That was a bad carb if I've ever seen one.7
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You just need better cakeJanetBiard wrote: »Eating highly processed carbs with no fibre, lots of added sugars and god knows what chemicals are simply not a help if you are trying to lose weight.
I can’t think of a chemical I’ve ever put in a came either.
You always make cake without baking powder?!?!! Nothing but highly-processed chemikillz in that stuff!
And in the general interests of the thread: Cake has all 3 macros, and some micros. The all-kale diet is somewhat less balanced, and may kill you (vitamin K).
Yes, I know OP didn't suggest an all kale diet. I didn't suggest an all cake and cook diet.
Calories for weight management; balanced, well-rounded macros and micros for nutrition; exercise for fitness = best odds for health. Which is pretty much what I say in all "those" threads. Jeesh.10 -
TheDevastator wrote: »
Sorry that was a run-on sentence. I've been up all night. I was testing how long you could hold your breath.TheDevastator wrote: »I'd say there are bad foods because it's almost impossible just getting all the micro-nutrients with the top foods and supplements in each micro-nutrient category let alone nutrient poor foods or foods high in omega 6s that will throw your omega 6s to omega 3s ratio out of balance.
Can anyone parse this sentence?
Or tell me what a ‘top food’ is?
Or how the human race has survived if micro-nutrients are so darn impossible to get?
Top foods as in each micro-nutrient.
The human race can survive without 100% of their daily amounts of micro-nutrients. They just don't have optimal health or can get diseases if going without a certain one for too long. I also didn't say they were impossible to get. Getting all of them in a day is impossible without supplementation or even a week can be hard.
Not on topic for this thread, really, but: It's worse than that. I'd lay money that there are beneficial (perhaps even essential) nutrients that science hasn't discovered yet. (It's discovered bunches of them during my 62-year lifespan.) You can't track them, you can't knowingly supplement them, but you'll be healthier if you eat them. They've been in food all along.6 -
You just need better cakeJanetBiard wrote: »Eating highly processed carbs with no fibre, lots of added sugars and god knows what chemicals are simply not a help if you are trying to lose weight.
I can’t think of a chemical I’ve ever put in a came either.
You always make cake without baking powder?!?!! Nothing but highly-processed chemikillz in that stuff!
Lol - Salt’s a chemical too, right?3 -
Calliope610 wrote: »JanetBiard wrote: »And of course I agree that there is nothing wrong with a treat now and then. But advocating a just eat what you want as long as you stay in your calories is not going to help people stay on track.
Au contrair. That is EXACTLY what helps me stay on track!!
+14 -
You just need better cakeJanetBiard wrote: »Eating highly processed carbs with no fibre, lots of added sugars and god knows what chemicals are simply not a help if you are trying to lose weight.
I can’t think of a chemical I’ve ever put in a came either.
You know, it's interesting but true that these kinds of posts seem to assume that everyone eats tons of packaged cakes or some such (although read the label if you want to know). If I have cake (which isn't that often because I don't enjoy making it and pie is better anyways), it will be homemade (not by me, normally) or from a bakery that uses stuff like eggs, butter, sugar, flour. I mean, like everything else those are made up of chemicals, but I suspect that's not what OP meant.
I think part of this is the desire to believe that it's these mysterious chemicals that made you fat and not simply overeating (which some people hate admitting to).7
This discussion has been closed.
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